WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 16:14:44

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Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to this very special

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episode of Flight for Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast, where

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we all have Talking Vegetables on our shoulders.

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I'm Brendan, and this is my friend Leroy.

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I'm Nathan and this is Smedley.

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I'm Richard, this is my friend Tom.

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Thank you, Richard for saving me.

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Why did you call the talking vegetable, Jesus Christ?

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That's the last question I'm going to ask because as this is a

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retrospective, That means Todd is in charge.

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So Mr. Beale, it may refer to you.

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Yes, I know him a lovely vegetable.

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He's a beautiful woman, probably.

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Probably.

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Thank you for putting me in charge.

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Oh my goodness.

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So here we are at the end of the Tom Baker era.

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How do we feel, guys?

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Tired.

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Well, I...

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I just edited 42 episodes of Tom Baker, so I'm feeling like I

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should be drunk.

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Let's get to it.

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I'm really pertinent question.

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Tom as a doctor.

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His performance.

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Now that you've watched all 7 seasons.

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How are you feeling about it?

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It's definitive.

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No, at least don't give me my responses.

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Okay, it's definitive.

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Okay.

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He is a lot more consistent than my, if you like, received wisdom

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and dipping in in and out of his era would attest.

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You know, and a lot of people say, oh, you know, he's great in the

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Hingecliff era and then he stops acting in Graham Williams and

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then he's grumpy for his last year.

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And it's like, oh, you know what?

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Actually, the coldness and the alienness of the part is always

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there.

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Certainly his jokiness does increase.

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And then he's doing a different thing again in season 18.

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But I think there are only very rare occasions, and I don't think

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it's ever one entire production, but I think there are rare

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occasions where Tom's just kind of fed up and phoning it in a bit

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but I think, you know, that's happening in certain scenes rather

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than happening in whole stories.

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Like, you know, even if you look at something like underworld

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where it was incredibly unhappy with the production, he still

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gives the best performance he can for someone who's acting against

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a curtain.

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I've got a lot more respect for him and I think possibly where my

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impression came from was, you know, we were all fans in the 90s

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when the show wasn't on and we kind of, you know, had to make our

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own fun, as it were.

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And many lonely fan boys did, yes.

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And a lot of that came with bashing the program.

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And, you know, sometimes it was fun and affectionate in the way we

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do it.

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And sometimes you know, it was quite cruel.

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And there was, I seem to recall, the sort of move at the time to

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kind of say, oh, everyone says that Tom Baker was amazing.

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Well, I think he was rubbish.

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What do you think about that?

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And I think the truth is somewhere in between.

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They do that thing with their shoulders that you're doing right

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now.

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They did actually.

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James Sel, what if you're listening?

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Oh, James.

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Richard.

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Richard, what did you think, Todd?

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No.

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Nathan?

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No, from these questions back at me.

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I think I do think that he, I think I've said before that it's not

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an acting performance in a sense.

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And that's a bit unfair.

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The real thing about Tom Baker is that he's just really

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charismatic and just fantastic to watch.

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He's really, really, really great.

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I think.

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And, you know, he's much more central to every scene that he's in

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than any of his predecessors and certainly than his immediate

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successor.

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And, you know, Trouton is also terribly engaging to watch.

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Just lovely, but he's not, he doesn't have the look at me equality

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but Tom has.

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And so I really think it's not just a function of, you know, when

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he was the doctor that makes him the version of the doctor that

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will appear on The Simpsons, the one that everyone thinks about.

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The American Convention circuit version of the doctor, actually.

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Yeah, the interpreted version.

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Yeah.

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It's because he's just magnetic..

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Yeah.

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He is, I guess, the cloisterball going, Tom.

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I agree.

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He certainly filled my box as a child and he still does, too

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overflowing.

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He really did take up more space than the picture tube, good

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handle, and it was extraordinary, and starting with him again at 8

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or 9.

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Wow.

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And again, it's the Billy Piper principle looking at his head

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which feature is the biggest, the eyes, the teeth, the nose.

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You can't tell.

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It's whatever you're looking at at the time.

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I was privileged to stand only inches away from his waist in 1979

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and I have to say he is an enormous gentleman in every way.

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He really does fill up and take up a great deal of personal

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geography.

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He's just enormous.

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Just enormous in every single way, and lovely in income.

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He described pertly as incandescent, but I actually think that's

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more appropriate for Tom.

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And my, and the thing is, the reason I loved the show kept going

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with it.

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I didn't get to see Pat and Billy till much later, but we didn't

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even know who they actually were in the 70s as children.

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Well, there wasn't media around.

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And so as a young person, you actually, there was no way you could

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even see, to see them.

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It's nothing exciting until the Doctor Who Monster book came out.

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So yeah, they were just figures in a black pyramid like Todd used

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to often be.

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Yeah, I think Tom is the reason Doctor Who is still on to this

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day.

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I think that's a good point.

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I mean, I think the show, uh, before Tom, it was very much British

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in Australia.

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It wasn't really in America, you know, and that certainly happened

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during his time.

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Do you think he stayed too long in the role?

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Do you think that there is a negative or any negative to his

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legacy as the doctor or is it all positive?

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He's hard to replace.

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And I do think that that's a problem.

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And I think at least the next 2 doctors and the way that they're

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conceptualised or, in one case, not at all conceptualised by the

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production team is a problem.

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It's interesting for me that when researching the podcast to

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discover that Tom could have left in the Armageddon factor.

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And I was kind of thinking, yeah, would I have been satisfied with

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that?

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Kind of like, you know what?

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yeah?

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Yeah, he'd had a good run up until that point.

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We said that about old people.

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And they go.

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Well, he had a great innings.

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But, you know, it's kind of like other doctors I look at.

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And certainly all of the coming doctors. of the classic series

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Peter, Colin Sylvester, I think, could have done more.

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Whereas John and Tom.

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I don't feel they outstayed their welcome, but at the same time, I

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kind of look at their eras and go, that's whole, that's complete.

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I think, you know, with the Davidson, as we'll discuss later, you

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know, he kind of said that had he known the script situation was

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going to improve.

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He may have stuck around.

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Colin, of course, was improving in the role when he was dumped and

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Silv, the whole show was dumped, even though he'd agreed to

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another year.

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So I suppose it's not quite the same situation as Tom, where much

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like John, there is some discussion as to whether he really wanted

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to leave.

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Because by reports.

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The last 2 years with Graham Williams, season 16 and season 17, Tom

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would sort of say halfway through the season.

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Well, I'm going unless this happens and Graham Williams would

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capitulate.

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Whereas with John Nathan Turner, Tom said, I'm going unless this

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happens and John Nathan Turner said, oh, okay, what do you think

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of Peter Davidson?

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And Tom kind of went, oh, well, uh, And, you know, there were

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other things as well.

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He was marrying Lyle Ward and also as he says now, you know, the

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show was changing into something that wasn't the show I wanted to

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make.

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But at the same time, you know, as Tom says now, it wasn't all

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about him.

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But at the time, it was all about him, you know, because and he's

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got a point in which he says, you know, I've been on the show for

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7 years.

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They hadn't been on the show for 7 years.

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I know how to make this.

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And he's why the people at home are watching and he knows it, I

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think, you know.

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He is irreplaceable at this point.

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At this point.

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Your favourite companion from Tom Baker's time in the show.

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My favourite companion would be Sarah Jane Smith, I think that's

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just a no-brainer.

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She's charming.

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You know, she's not necessarily the best actor, um, but she's a

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sentimental favourite.

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It's no excuse that Russell brings her back and gives her her own

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show.

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In fact, they keep trying to spin her off.

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They keep trying to bring him back, as we learned last week.

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Uh, and it's no surprise.

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You know, it's a character with a fairly thin, basic concept, but

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I think she's terrific, the performance is great.

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I like what you said in the past.

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She's the first character that actually becomes so high concept.

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She stops being a person.

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And I had never thought of that or seen that until Nathan brought

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it up during this whole season.

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And now I can't see her as anything other than an action figure

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and yet she's still my favourite all time after Barbara.

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But it's exactly what you see it.

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The companion's really good because they've just got the right

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producers behind them in the right direction and the right

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things.

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I mean, would list Laddin have been so extraordinary in all our

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hearts and minds had she been under Big Needs script direction.

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Very exciting.

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Yeah, no, I don't think so.

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I was kind of like, my, well, my answer to that question is the

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1st Romana, Mary Tam.

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And I don't think she would have worked under Hinchcliffe or

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Bidmade.

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I think she would have been amazing under Hinchcliffe.

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I don't think she would have jailed with his vision of the show

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because, you know, she's got this aloof quality.

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But she might have played it differently.

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That's true.

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She may have done.

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But yeah, I think I think Sarah Jane Smith was kind of the perfect

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storm because she was cast by Barry Letts, of course, and thought

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when she was coming in that Hingecliffe would want to get rid of

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her, but he really liked her, but the character does go in that

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completely different direction.

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Has your opinion changed on the producers and what they brought to

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the program?

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In what way?

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It spun around like cotton Madras in the wash and all the colours

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have gone together.

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I used to think it was Hinchcliffe's as the zenith of fabulousness

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and then I thought in descending older than Graham Williams and

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then JNT and that because that was the received thinking in the

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90s when, you know, after Gary Levy brought out Doctor Who

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Bulletin.

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Do you want to be?

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And it was just a slag fest against Sabred and JNT, and that was

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the, that was the received thinking.

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So, you know, Graham Williams was God, but Hinchcliffe was even

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put aside.

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But now I actually, yeah, it changes depending on what story I'm

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looking at, and there are great moments in all three.

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But for me, it's very distinct that we have 3 different doctors in

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Tom.

254
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And even Tom, with all his grandiosity and width and breadth and

255
00:11:47.580 --> 00:11:54.120
height and depth and girth. is only ever the sum of his puppet

256
00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:55.080
master's parts.

257
00:11:55.139 --> 00:11:58.139
And that actually what keeps that 7 years going.

258
00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:00.539
You've got 3 different doctors within the one doctor.

259
00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:02.340
It's quite unusual.

260
00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:02.940
You're not tired.

261
00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:03.600
Not at all.

262
00:12:03.659 --> 00:12:07.139
And then he does those extraordinary things in season 18 when you

263
00:12:07.139 --> 00:12:10.019
think when he is so tired and fatigued and lachrymose.

264
00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:12.419
And then he'll play play a walking cactus.

265
00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:16.559
But with such gravitas and such seriousness that you think, it's

266
00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:19.500
the same way that Oscar Wilde would write a villain, and you think

267
00:12:19.500 --> 00:12:22.440
oh, this is so light and so silly, and then he'll put in some a

268
00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:25.019
moment of such darkness.

269
00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:27.240
Ooh, and everyone has to stop back and look.

270
00:12:27.299 --> 00:12:29.519
Tom does that several times in season 18.

271
00:12:29.700 --> 00:12:33.720
Todd's mentioned it during the podcast and it's really all the

272
00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:35.039
more exciting for the difference.

273
00:12:35.100 --> 00:12:35.460
Yeah.

274
00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:36.600
He's a good actor.

275
00:12:36.659 --> 00:12:38.100
We forget that.

276
00:12:38.220 --> 00:12:42.059
He's challenged several times since he's 18 and he's really

277
00:12:42.059 --> 00:12:42.419
great.

278
00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:46.139
And he's on the front foot is not, yeah, because when he gets lazy

279
00:12:46.139 --> 00:12:49.379
this is the problem with a massive ego and a good talent, but a

280
00:12:49.379 --> 00:12:50.100
huge ego.

281
00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:52.740
They really do become their own worst enemies.

282
00:12:52.799 --> 00:12:54.240
Well, you see it at work as well.

283
00:12:54.539 --> 00:12:56.100
Brendan?

284
00:12:56.159 --> 00:12:58.620
Graham Williams, hands down, is my favourite producer of this

285
00:12:58.620 --> 00:12:58.980
era.

286
00:12:59.039 --> 00:12:59.340
Really?

287
00:12:59.399 --> 00:13:00.000
Absolutely.

288
00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:03.419
Because Hinchcliffe?

289
00:13:03.539 --> 00:13:07.919
Hinchcliffe produces an amazing show and it was incredibly popular

290
00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:11.100
and it's incredibly memorable.

291
00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:13.740
You know, you talk to people who watch Doctor Who casually as a

292
00:13:13.740 --> 00:13:17.220
child and they, they remember the mummies and they remember the

293
00:13:17.220 --> 00:13:18.240
Loch Ness monster.

294
00:13:18.299 --> 00:13:21.899
They remember the really well-spoken robots who would kill you

295
00:13:21.899 --> 00:13:24.360
with bicycle reflectors, you know, that sort of thing.

296
00:13:24.419 --> 00:13:26.460
And that's all from the mind of Hinchcliffe.

297
00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:33.539
But Graham Williams, had the task of being given a job he didn't

298
00:13:33.539 --> 00:13:34.200
really want.

299
00:13:34.440 --> 00:13:39.960
But then saying, What is the best program I can make out of these

300
00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:40.620
ingredients?

301
00:13:40.679 --> 00:13:47.159
And we get these 3 years of literary and lyrical style Doctor Who

302
00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:49.799
with no money, with no time.

303
00:13:49.860 --> 00:13:50.519
Yeah.

304
00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:53.759
And the problem is when the Hinchcliffe era falls down.

305
00:13:53.820 --> 00:13:57.240
Plan of the Beale, for instance, you know, with...

306
00:13:57.240 --> 00:13:58.440
Why is everyone nodding at this?

307
00:13:58.500 --> 00:14:02.940
But, you know, with its dull designs and its and it's Prentice

308
00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:07.379
Hancock, yeah, when the Hitchcliff era falls down, it doesn't have

309
00:14:07.379 --> 00:14:08.940
much to fall back on.

310
00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:13.559
When the Graham Williams era falls down, it's got in the invisible

311
00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:18.120
enemy, for instance, it's got the doctor and Leila standing with a

312
00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:21.179
wind machine going saying, where are we going into the land of

313
00:14:21.179 --> 00:14:22.620
dreams and fantasies?

314
00:14:22.620 --> 00:14:23.519
And prawns?

315
00:14:23.639 --> 00:14:24.360
and prawns.

316
00:14:24.419 --> 00:14:27.360
The power of crawl, the Armageddon, in fact, it kind of start to

317
00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:30.480
fall apart, but it's got Tom Baker and Mary Tann throwing

318
00:14:30.480 --> 00:14:33.240
witticisms at each other and has got some of the best lines of all

319
00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:33.480
time.

320
00:14:33.539 --> 00:14:35.399
She's not the easiest guest.

321
00:14:36.179 --> 00:14:40.559
And, you know, the doctor being horrified at the idea of having 6

322
00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:42.120
Romana is badgering it.

323
00:14:42.179 --> 00:14:42.659
Yes.

324
00:14:43.080 --> 00:14:46.440
Yeah, the creature from the pit, which everyone says is terrible

325
00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:49.379
is actually a brilliant commentary on capitalism.

326
00:14:49.500 --> 00:14:52.139
I think it's one of the wittiest, funnest stories.

327
00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:53.759
I really love Christian.

328
00:14:53.820 --> 00:14:57.899
To paraphrase Day of the Doctor, Graham Williams was the producer

329
00:14:57.899 --> 00:15:00.360
of Doctor Who when it was impossible to get it right.

330
00:15:00.659 --> 00:15:02.460
I agree.

331
00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:05.159
And the strikes and the money you've talked about this as well, and

332
00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:06.000
the during the time.

333
00:15:06.059 --> 00:15:07.559
Yeah, it was impossible.

334
00:15:07.620 --> 00:15:09.720
It's extraordinary that we got what we got.

335
00:15:09.779 --> 00:15:10.740
And we loved it at the time.

336
00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:11.519
Let's not forget that.

337
00:15:11.580 --> 00:15:15.960
I think it's really interesting. doing the podcast with you all

338
00:15:15.960 --> 00:15:17.820
and you mentioned it, Richard.

339
00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:22.019
The things that Nathan, you've pointed out with Hinchley Vera.

340
00:15:22.080 --> 00:15:25.139
And I certainly think he got the perfect storm.

341
00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:27.720
He got the casting, he got the script editor, he got the budgets.

342
00:15:27.779 --> 00:15:29.100
You know, that makes his job easy.

343
00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:30.899
And that's what you're talking about here.

344
00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:35.159
I've a new respect for Graham Williams and his script editors and

345
00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:37.620
what they've had to go through and what they ended up on screen.

346
00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:41.399
As much as I don't like season 15, which I think is the worst

347
00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:43.200
season of Tom Baker by a long way.

348
00:15:43.259 --> 00:15:47.820
There are still elements in there that I like and enjoy as much as

349
00:15:47.820 --> 00:15:48.240
anyone else.

350
00:15:48.299 --> 00:15:49.860
But my opinions have changed.

351
00:15:49.919 --> 00:15:52.620
It's not through black and white, but Hinchcliffe is this, you

352
00:15:52.620 --> 00:15:56.220
know, demigod Williams is not so good and then J and T tries to

353
00:15:56.220 --> 00:15:58.620
make it, you know, something new and different.

354
00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:00.240
It's not as black and white as that.

355
00:16:00.299 --> 00:16:03.899
And that's something that I've discovered in this entire process.

356
00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:08.639
My favourite companion does remain Sarah Jane.

357
00:16:08.700 --> 00:16:11.639
But like has been pointed out.

358
00:16:11.700 --> 00:16:15.659
Her performance changes, especially after Harry and unit are taken

359
00:16:15.659 --> 00:16:15.899
away.

360
00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:16.799
Yeah, I don't like it.

361
00:16:16.860 --> 00:16:21.960
And it's very interesting that I'm perhaps not quite as enamoured

362
00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:25.080
as what I once was in those last few performances.

363
00:16:25.740 --> 00:16:30.120
I think there was pressure on the actress or just from the team or

364
00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:32.759
the changes that were happening there as well, and maybe when an

365
00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:36.419
actor decides to be, whether or not they're going to stay or go

366
00:16:36.419 --> 00:16:39.600
that imbues the performers, did you get that feeling with her?

367
00:16:39.659 --> 00:16:40.679
Well, I don't know.

368
00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:43.379
I mean, I think there is a change in her performance towards the

369
00:16:43.379 --> 00:16:45.299
end, but I think that's more to do with the character becoming not

370
00:16:45.299 --> 00:16:45.539
real.

371
00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:49.019
Yeah, it kind of becomes impossible to play. horribly.

372
00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:51.600
In fact, now I'm reflecting on it.

373
00:16:51.659 --> 00:16:54.299
It's actually a 1st season.

374
00:16:54.299 --> 00:16:57.960
And her stuff with Harry that makes Sarah Jane Sarah Jane.

375
00:16:58.080 --> 00:16:58.679
Yeah, it is.

376
00:16:58.740 --> 00:16:59.940
It isn't the pert we year, is it?

377
00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:00.419
Not really.

378
00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:01.019
No.

379
00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:01.799
Well, I don't know.

380
00:17:01.860 --> 00:17:05.339
I have a new appreciation for Harry Sullivan as a character.

381
00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:07.680
Underrated companion's spectacularly great.

382
00:17:07.740 --> 00:17:10.859
I think if we'd had another year of Harry and Sarah.

383
00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:12.119
Yeah, yeah.

384
00:17:12.180 --> 00:17:13.140
Yeah, interesting.

385
00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:15.000
All right, I mean, talking of companions.

386
00:17:15.059 --> 00:17:18.240
Romana one, Romana 2, or just Romana?

387
00:17:18.779 --> 00:17:21.599
Oh, like how do we refer to her?

388
00:17:21.660 --> 00:17:23.759
Who do you prefer?

389
00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:25.500
Is there a preference?

390
00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:26.819
Mary Tam.

391
00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:30.720
Although, interestingly, it was Lala Ward when I was a child, and

392
00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:35.579
I think, and this was Lala's Rosemont Dethra, Lala appeals more to

393
00:17:35.579 --> 00:17:38.460
children and plays, plays, plays the character.

394
00:17:38.579 --> 00:17:42.240
Not childish, but with childlike interest and enthusiasm.

395
00:17:42.299 --> 00:17:46.440
And, you know, we see it in Hollywood movies with kids all the

396
00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:49.559
time, you know, the deepest inner desire of a child is to get one

397
00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:50.519
over on an adult.

398
00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:53.220
And that's what Romana 2 does constantly.

399
00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:56.099
You know, you have these villains who are adults and very serious

400
00:17:56.099 --> 00:17:59.099
and, you know, stealing paintings for their value and whatnot.

401
00:17:59.220 --> 00:18:01.740
She uses her child abilities to get past them.

402
00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:06.779
But yeah, as an adult, I prefer Mary Tam just wandering around and

403
00:18:06.779 --> 00:18:09.779
being arch and, oh, you drop this, yes, into your hand.

404
00:18:13.500 --> 00:18:15.059
Nathan?

405
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:16.259
I think they're both great.

406
00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:20.640
I think they're both great. and they are different. like and for

407
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:22.559
precisely the reasons we said at the time.

408
00:18:22.619 --> 00:18:26.339
You know, I had all those cracks about Mary taking a sabbatical

409
00:18:26.339 --> 00:18:32.400
from acting, slumming it in kids TV for a year, but she is so fun

410
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:36.599
and she works terrifically well with Tom and she's so beautiful

411
00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:38.099
you know, just tremendous.

412
00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:43.980
But Lala is, is, Lala and Tom together work so well.

413
00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:48.599
She has this sort of infectious cheerfulness, which I just think

414
00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:49.259
is lovely.

415
00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:53.279
She is a bit more vulnerable, which is kind of nice for the drama

416
00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:53.579
I think.

417
00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:57.539
When we were doing this, Remember, it was saying over that season

418
00:18:57.539 --> 00:18:58.319
it's the same thing.

419
00:18:58.380 --> 00:19:01.559
You can't compare one woman to another.

420
00:19:01.619 --> 00:19:02.819
It's just all done.

421
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:04.799
And it's the same.

422
00:19:04.859 --> 00:19:09.119
And it's just like, they're both exquisite in their own way and

423
00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:11.700
the characters all the better for having them both play it.

424
00:19:11.700 --> 00:19:14.099
And I think that's why that character is so strong and strongly

425
00:19:14.099 --> 00:19:14.640
remembered.

426
00:19:14.700 --> 00:19:18.599
How often do you get 2 actors able to interpret the same part

427
00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:19.859
other than the doctor?

428
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:22.859
Ramana's or the master who doesn't want to count because it's the

429
00:19:22.859 --> 00:19:24.599
same damn thing every time until missy.

430
00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:27.839
You had to have to go through a huge reboot and change the gender

431
00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:30.240
to get anything fresh out of the master.

432
00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:34.319
So, and that, maybe that's why, um, you know, it's done so well

433
00:19:34.319 --> 00:19:38.400
this, and there's a BAFTA up there for, um, for that lovely

434
00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:38.940
woman.

435
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:39.660
What plays missing?

436
00:19:39.660 --> 00:19:42.779
And something's gone out of my head because I'm an old person.

437
00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:43.200
Thank you.

438
00:19:43.259 --> 00:19:45.299
Sorry, Michelle, if you see me, you'll probably poke something in

439
00:19:45.299 --> 00:19:45.599
my eye.

440
00:19:45.660 --> 00:19:48.240
I saw what you wrote wrote on Jim Sangster's card.

441
00:19:48.299 --> 00:19:49.859
Did you see what she wrote?

442
00:19:49.980 --> 00:19:52.740
We can't see use of the words on this podcast.

443
00:19:52.859 --> 00:19:55.680
Yeah, no, I actually think the character is really interesting for

444
00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:56.700
having them both play it.

445
00:19:56.759 --> 00:19:58.500
And I just couldn't compare them both.

446
00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:00.779
Of course they're completely different, but it's richer for having

447
00:20:00.779 --> 00:20:01.440
them both in it.

448
00:20:01.559 --> 00:20:02.940
Yeah, it's interesting.

449
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:07.019
It did take me a lot longer this time through to warm Tamala.

450
00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:08.460
It does, doesn't it, though?

451
00:20:08.579 --> 00:20:11.819
And even though she's so strong when she just comes in, she hits

452
00:20:11.819 --> 00:20:13.319
the mark right away, you don't think so.

453
00:20:13.380 --> 00:20:15.420
I don't think so, but I'm not going to go there with that.

454
00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:19.259
Again, what Brendan was saying as a kid, I preferred Lala?

455
00:20:19.319 --> 00:20:19.559
Yeah.

456
00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:24.359
Now, I just I just adored Mary Tam. you know, maybe it's because

457
00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:25.799
she's no longer with us or whatever.

458
00:20:25.859 --> 00:20:29.339
I just really did and but there's nothing to take away from my

459
00:20:29.339 --> 00:20:32.880
life whose performances are so entertaining.

460
00:20:32.940 --> 00:20:37.019
So I guess on that note, we need to do a snog marry or more.

461
00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:39.059
Scarrel.

462
00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:41.940
What have I been living with all these years?

463
00:20:42.299 --> 00:20:47.460
So, I'll start with, I don't know, I'll start with Brendan.

464
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:49.980
Snog, Mary, avoid, Adrik, Nisarotine.

465
00:20:50.039 --> 00:20:51.720
Oh, horrible.

466
00:20:51.900 --> 00:20:54.420
That's really for the Pete retrospective, isn't it?

467
00:20:54.599 --> 00:20:56.279
It works here.

468
00:20:56.339 --> 00:20:57.059
We can do it again then.

469
00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:00.119
There aren't enough dental dams in the universe, God.

470
00:21:00.180 --> 00:21:00.599
Okay.

471
00:21:00.660 --> 00:21:04.140
Despite the fact she knows so little about telebiogenitors.

472
00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:06.359
We don't know that yet, do we?

473
00:21:06.420 --> 00:21:09.720
I think I would have to marry miss up.

474
00:21:09.779 --> 00:21:12.420
And I think that would be a perfectly pleasant time.

475
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:13.619
Oh God.

476
00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:16.980
And just as it marches, I'd snog Matthew Waterhouse, I'd snog

477
00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:19.319
Adrick, he's held my mind.

478
00:21:19.380 --> 00:21:20.099
Yeah, but back then?

479
00:21:20.099 --> 00:21:25.799
Well, funnily enough, no, but it may come as a surprise to no one

480
00:21:25.799 --> 00:21:29.220
who's actually met me and Rod, but I do prefer the older gentleman

481
00:21:29.339 --> 00:21:32.579
as Matthew Waterhouse is now.

482
00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:35.160
Which is available?

483
00:21:38.460 --> 00:21:42.240
I shouldn't have used him in the snog.

484
00:21:43.319 --> 00:21:46.200
And so I'm afraid I'd have to avoid Tegan.

485
00:21:46.259 --> 00:21:53.099
At least certainly her, um, her performance in Lagopolis.

486
00:21:53.220 --> 00:21:55.079
Which is always.

487
00:21:57.059 --> 00:22:02.700
So yeah, I would, um, Snuggadrick, Marinessa, and avoid Tegan.

488
00:22:02.819 --> 00:22:05.880
Nathan, here's your song, Mario Void.

489
00:22:05.940 --> 00:22:06.599
So long?

490
00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:11.279
Countess Scalione. and Alexa.

491
00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:16.500
So I would definitely marry Countess Scarlione because I would be

492
00:22:16.500 --> 00:22:19.500
able to get away with absolute...

493
00:22:20.940 --> 00:22:23.519
So you're definitely marrying her.

494
00:22:23.579 --> 00:22:26.400
I would obviously.

495
00:22:26.460 --> 00:22:33.599
Oh, no, I feel there's no good choice because I love Alexa, but I

496
00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:37.319
feel like saying that I would snorgle Alexa is terribly

497
00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:41.099
disrespectful and it would be like, you know, snogging an elderly

498
00:22:41.099 --> 00:22:41.519
relative.

499
00:22:41.579 --> 00:22:45.420
So I'll have to snog so on and avoid legs.

500
00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:47.579
Brendan's X would probably be different in this instance.

501
00:22:49.859 --> 00:22:52.319
Okay, Richard?

502
00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:54.900
Rex, does this go?

503
00:22:54.960 --> 00:22:56.099
This is his favourite segment.

504
00:22:56.160 --> 00:22:57.960
Amelia Ducart.

505
00:22:58.019 --> 00:22:58.440
Oh, wow.

506
00:22:58.500 --> 00:23:01.259
Amelia Rumford or Auntie Vanessa.

507
00:23:01.680 --> 00:23:03.299
Fabulous.

508
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:09.240
Fonda's one is of sausage sandwiches. limits the coast.

509
00:23:09.299 --> 00:23:10.920
So we have Professor Romford.

510
00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:13.980
We have nearly a ducket.

511
00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:15.059
Richard?

512
00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:17.279
Auntie Vanessa.

513
00:23:17.339 --> 00:23:21.000
Oh, it's being too close to home, is that Auntie Vanessa, I think

514
00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:23.339
not even her driving skills would save me and I still don't have a

515
00:23:23.339 --> 00:23:23.700
license.

516
00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:27.119
So I'd have to sort of cross, well, maybe she could take me on a

517
00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:27.359
drive.

518
00:23:27.420 --> 00:23:32.220
But then again, do cars got something of worth in her boot, hasn't

519
00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:32.400
she?

520
00:23:32.460 --> 00:23:37.079
So I'd probably be thinking, um, I definitely would have to be

521
00:23:37.079 --> 00:23:41.160
snogging, um, Professor Romford because she's got that lovely

522
00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:42.059
sausage breath.

523
00:23:42.059 --> 00:23:49.500
And it would have to be marrying, um, uh, Amelia Ducar because

524
00:23:49.500 --> 00:23:52.799
she's just got really, really nice wheels.

525
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:56.519
And, um, it well, even though it's nicked and it would have to be

526
00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:59.640
avoiding Auntie Vanessa because, you know, she, well, she doesn't

527
00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:01.079
provide very much, does she these days?

528
00:24:01.140 --> 00:24:02.759
There's not a lot of bird to the pound.

529
00:24:02.819 --> 00:24:03.660
No.

530
00:24:03.660 --> 00:24:07.140
Thank you.

531
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:09.180
What's your greatest surprise?

532
00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:11.339
I think it's the hinge good thing.

533
00:24:11.400 --> 00:24:15.000
Yeah, you kept saying that during the podcast too.

534
00:24:15.059 --> 00:24:19.920
We saw this as the Golden Gate to Glory and yet...

535
00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:21.480
It was often not that great.

536
00:24:21.539 --> 00:24:23.579
The representation of women was really poor.

537
00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:25.200
It was torture porn.

538
00:24:25.259 --> 00:24:26.759
And it was totally quantified.

539
00:24:26.819 --> 00:24:30.480
And and also, when we did the when we did the perch, we

540
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:34.259
retrospective, and like I named my top 3 stories, they were all

541
00:24:34.259 --> 00:24:35.640
Robert Holmes stories.

542
00:24:35.700 --> 00:24:40.740
And I just think, you know, he's a spectacular, he was a great TV

543
00:24:40.740 --> 00:24:41.640
writer.

544
00:24:41.700 --> 00:24:46.619
But giving him the reins, that's the other thing, the discovery

545
00:24:46.619 --> 00:24:51.420
that that he's kind of cynical, sadistic, actually.

546
00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:53.579
Yeah, it's a sadistic humour that he has.

547
00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:55.200
And sort of misanthropic and stuff.

548
00:24:55.380 --> 00:24:55.980
Yeah.

549
00:24:55.980 --> 00:24:57.720
And yet we blame so hard for that.

550
00:24:57.779 --> 00:25:00.359
Yeah, but he's not talented though.

551
00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:05.519
I was going to say not witty.

552
00:25:05.579 --> 00:25:09.720
Okay, let's just let's just go for the...

553
00:25:09.779 --> 00:25:11.279
This is going to be what to keep.

554
00:25:11.339 --> 00:25:13.680
Richard Brendan, your greatest surprise?

555
00:25:13.740 --> 00:25:15.359
Even honing in further than that.

556
00:25:15.420 --> 00:25:17.940
In particular, season 13 just isn't that good.

557
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:22.500
It's what it's what you say, Richard, about the colour Diana Riggs

558
00:25:22.500 --> 00:25:22.799
season.

559
00:25:22.859 --> 00:25:25.920
It's like if you watch more than one together, it's actually just

560
00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:27.839
the same bloody story every week.

561
00:25:27.900 --> 00:25:31.980
Individually, chocolate's in a box, but altogether you feel sick.

562
00:25:32.099 --> 00:25:35.460
Yeah, this, you know, this ancient evil, this ancient unknowable

563
00:25:35.460 --> 00:25:36.539
dawn of time.

564
00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:40.319
Usually, you know, you can't communicate with them because their

565
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:41.700
brain works on a different level.

566
00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:44.940
Season 12 is great. season 14 is great.

567
00:25:45.059 --> 00:25:48.240
But season 13, which is why everyone holds up as, you know, this

568
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:50.220
is this is the amazing Doctor Who.

569
00:25:50.279 --> 00:25:53.759
You know, I think it's the opposite problem of season 18 where, you

570
00:25:53.759 --> 00:25:56.519
know, season 18, there's nothing really in it for the younger

571
00:25:56.519 --> 00:25:56.819
child.

572
00:25:57.119 --> 00:26:03.299
Season 13, when a lot of younger children were watching and that

573
00:26:03.299 --> 00:26:06.180
forms the impression on their mind of what Doctor Who is.

574
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:09.660
But looking at it with an adult mind, when you're not just looking

575
00:26:09.660 --> 00:26:14.400
at the visuals and the and the repartee and the monsters, when

576
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:17.700
you're looking at the plot and kind of going, oh, well, okay

577
00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:23.339
Morbius slash Eldrad slash crinoid has been buried for 1000000s of

578
00:26:23.339 --> 00:26:25.440
years and la-da-da-da.

579
00:26:25.500 --> 00:26:30.119
Yeah, it's just kind of, oh, it's like actually this goal, there

580
00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:31.680
never was a golden age, Mike.

581
00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:36.299
That's really true.

582
00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:38.880
Which, oh, how good Tom is.

583
00:26:38.940 --> 00:26:43.079
Because again, I had that received opinion that he waned and he

584
00:26:43.079 --> 00:26:44.519
phoned it in and blah, blah.

585
00:26:44.579 --> 00:26:45.599
He just blustered his way through.

586
00:26:45.660 --> 00:26:46.380
No, he doesn't.

587
00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:49.859
There's something surprising and he'll go, wow, wow, boom, boom

588
00:26:49.859 --> 00:26:50.519
foghorn.

589
00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:52.559
Shottle something.

590
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:54.720
Look, horror fang rock.

591
00:26:54.779 --> 00:26:56.819
Again, it's something that I thought, yeah, it's great.

592
00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:57.539
I have a kind of mood.

593
00:26:57.599 --> 00:26:58.920
There's subtleties and there's layers.

594
00:26:58.980 --> 00:27:00.660
The simpler the story for Tom.

595
00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:02.640
The more he puts into it.

596
00:27:02.700 --> 00:27:06.900
And we know what a monster he was to other people in the cast as

597
00:27:06.900 --> 00:27:10.500
some people could handle him well, the juxtaposition between how

598
00:27:10.500 --> 00:27:14.460
he treated Louise, which was actually Louise's reaction, and how

599
00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:17.759
he treated Mary, which was actually Mary's reaction, comes down to

600
00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:20.819
that alternate, that a bully is the most vulnerable person in the

601
00:27:20.819 --> 00:27:21.000
room.

602
00:27:21.059 --> 00:27:22.380
Tom was a bully.

603
00:27:22.440 --> 00:27:26.400
But only because he was looking to have his handheld and have

604
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:29.880
guidance and have a maternal figure look after him.

605
00:27:29.940 --> 00:27:34.319
If you've read his biog, have you ever thought of autobiography

606
00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:35.160
who is Tom Baker?

607
00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:35.759
I don't believe.

608
00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:36.960
It was ghosted a bit.

609
00:27:37.019 --> 00:27:41.519
But what I get from that is that, you know, he, like many men, he

610
00:27:41.519 --> 00:27:44.339
wanted a woman to look after him.

611
00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:47.759
And when they weren't as strong or they didn't meet him, he was

612
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:51.660
savage when Lala comes along and it is a force of nature and equal

613
00:27:51.660 --> 00:27:52.380
and opposite.

614
00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:55.380
But of course they clash, but he ends up marrying her.

615
00:27:55.440 --> 00:28:00.119
Well, Louise Jameson does say that her relationship with Tom was

616
00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:03.299
pretty much fine when she said to him, you are not being fair, you

617
00:28:03.299 --> 00:28:06.059
are not treating me fairly, I am not the cause of your problems.

618
00:28:06.299 --> 00:28:09.119
And therefore you shouldn't take it out on me.

619
00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:11.220
And, you know, after that, she's like, you know, the relationship

620
00:28:11.220 --> 00:28:13.799
wasn't perfect, but we worked well together and now we're great

621
00:28:13.799 --> 00:28:14.039
friends.

622
00:28:14.099 --> 00:28:17.759
So yeah, I think there might be something in that, that he's he's

623
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:19.799
looking for someone to rise to him.

624
00:28:20.099 --> 00:28:24.180
I guess on that note, someone to rise to him, is there any

625
00:28:24.180 --> 00:28:27.240
character that you think could have come aboard the TARDIS during

626
00:28:27.240 --> 00:28:29.519
his time that could have risen?

627
00:28:29.700 --> 00:28:31.200
Obviously.

628
00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:36.240
I'm going from...

629
00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:38.940
Don't hold your breath because not carrying out noise coming up.

630
00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:41.880
I'm thinking about it, right?

631
00:28:41.940 --> 00:28:42.839
Oh, who is?

632
00:28:43.619 --> 00:28:46.619
This table is rising like a séance.

633
00:28:47.099 --> 00:28:49.500
He's never far from my class.

634
00:28:50.279 --> 00:28:52.319
It's deference to the question.

635
00:28:52.380 --> 00:28:54.779
Is there a character that could have come aboard the TARDIS that

636
00:28:54.779 --> 00:28:57.779
you would have liked to have seen perhaps from a story that could

637
00:28:57.779 --> 00:28:58.680
have been a longer term?

638
00:28:58.740 --> 00:29:00.180
Pilot Toose.

639
00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:03.119
Isn't that amazing to say that because mine just to throw in his

640
00:29:03.119 --> 00:29:03.779
DA before?

641
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:06.119
Seriously, I really wanted that in there.

642
00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:09.180
And can you imagine dressing him up in a hat and stuff and like

643
00:29:09.180 --> 00:29:12.059
you'll pass and trying to walk through Paris and everyone just

644
00:29:12.059 --> 00:29:14.640
thinks it was a really late party and he hasn't changed yet?

645
00:29:14.700 --> 00:29:16.200
Now, wouldn't that have been interesting?

646
00:29:16.259 --> 00:29:18.420
It was Bilal for me with the Pertwear era.

647
00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:18.779
Yeah.

648
00:29:18.779 --> 00:29:21.599
And it's, I work with someone called Balal. doesn't listen to this

649
00:29:21.660 --> 00:29:22.019
okay.

650
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:23.339
Yeah, I really do this.

651
00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:27.359
And yeah, and this one and it's, yeah, that story.

652
00:29:27.420 --> 00:29:29.039
It's the signal stories.

653
00:29:29.099 --> 00:29:32.160
And the reason the signal story is these extraordinary subtle

654
00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:34.799
characters, the panellists say, and I mean, come on.

655
00:29:34.859 --> 00:29:35.940
But yeah, of course.

656
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:38.759
Chris Boucher writes great characters.

657
00:29:38.819 --> 00:29:42.119
Look at Fendal with Mark Tyler and Matt.

658
00:29:42.180 --> 00:29:42.660
Oh, thank you.

659
00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:43.799
The Ransom.

660
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:44.759
I know what...

661
00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:45.059
I know.

662
00:29:45.059 --> 00:29:47.339
Nathan Zainz is going to be, it's all the mothers.

663
00:29:48.720 --> 00:29:50.700
Adam Colby.

664
00:29:50.759 --> 00:29:53.039
Can we just...

665
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:54.059
Oh, okay.

666
00:29:54.119 --> 00:29:57.480
Can we just can we just have an Adam Colby series where he

667
00:29:57.480 --> 00:29:59.519
inexquivocably gets his shirt ripped off?

668
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:05.099
It's called the Colby's. for a few seasons.

669
00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:06.839
You got to keep watching.

670
00:30:06.900 --> 00:30:08.339
He doesn't turn up till towards the end.

671
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:09.660
So just keep watching them with stuff.

672
00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:10.259
Sorry, Nathan.

673
00:30:10.740 --> 00:30:13.440
I'm kind of on Amelia Rumford.

674
00:30:13.500 --> 00:30:15.599
Yeah, I love Tom and Amelia.

675
00:30:15.660 --> 00:30:18.359
Yeah, when they when they go to the DeFreeze mansion.

676
00:30:18.420 --> 00:30:22.319
I think she's and you would see something different from Tom.

677
00:30:22.380 --> 00:30:23.759
Can I change mine now?

678
00:30:24.059 --> 00:30:26.160
I mean, do you do come?

679
00:30:26.220 --> 00:30:27.539
I can have more.

680
00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:29.099
Yeah, I agree.

681
00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:32.279
No, and Tom wanted an older woman companion. since we're using the

682
00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:32.700
O word.

683
00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:34.319
So frequently in this podcast.

684
00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:40.019
So she gets to be the kind of dotty Zainie when he gets here.

685
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:42.180
And that would, and that's the whole thing with his very

686
00:30:42.180 --> 00:30:43.859
submissive, dominant thing.

687
00:30:43.920 --> 00:30:46.079
It all gets a bit spooky SM with Tom.

688
00:30:46.140 --> 00:30:47.880
I think that, you know, clever people do that.

689
00:30:47.940 --> 00:30:51.299
But yes, if he'd actually had him at, well, a woman who was old

690
00:30:51.299 --> 00:30:53.759
enough to be his mother in the park.

691
00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:55.440
We would have seen a very different Tom.

692
00:30:55.500 --> 00:30:59.759
We've never had that in the show, apart from some Vivon Smythe and

693
00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:03.480
being finished. is my all-time favourite companion in the audios.

694
00:31:03.539 --> 00:31:04.920
Vail Maggie.

695
00:31:04.980 --> 00:31:06.779
Yeah, we lost her last year.

696
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:10.440
If I might ask a question, Todd, which won't be on your list, I

697
00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:10.740
promise.

698
00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:14.220
A few weeks ago, of course, we got our 1st look at Bill.

699
00:31:15.299 --> 00:31:17.339
Yes, the new companion.

700
00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:18.240
The new companion.

701
00:31:18.299 --> 00:31:21.720
It's a resurrected Billy in a...

702
00:31:21.900 --> 00:31:27.480
Now, the thing with Bill is like, I'm not going to talk about the

703
00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:31.140
completely outrageous objections that people are raising.

704
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:36.960
But one objection that someone raised was, oh, yeah, it's another

705
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:39.900
girl in her 20s, you know.

706
00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:41.519
That's massive objection.

707
00:31:41.579 --> 00:31:45.059
Now, the thing is, any other time I would have that ejection, but

708
00:31:45.059 --> 00:31:50.160
I do believe that having a companion actress closer to Peter

709
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:55.619
Capaldi's age. would be a mistake just because I like the tension

710
00:31:55.619 --> 00:32:00.240
of Peter Capaldi being an older doctor and having a younger

711
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:00.660
companion.

712
00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:02.039
I would...

713
00:32:02.099 --> 00:32:03.660
Yeah, I would have loved.

714
00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:04.619
I would have loved to see.

715
00:32:04.740 --> 00:32:09.359
I would have loved to see Matt Smith, you know, 30 or whatever he

716
00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:12.960
was at the time. having a female companion in her 50s or 60s.

717
00:32:13.019 --> 00:32:15.960
You know, I would have loved to see about women would agree with

718
00:32:15.960 --> 00:32:16.319
you on that.

719
00:32:16.380 --> 00:32:18.960
But don't we don't we have...

720
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:20.579
What's her name?

721
00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:22.680
Kate Stewart?

722
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:23.940
Olivia Coleman.

723
00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:27.599
No, no, no, no, the one that keeps the bit of a song.

724
00:32:27.660 --> 00:32:28.319
Isn't she old?

725
00:32:28.380 --> 00:32:32.819
Well, in a way, it's over 30 years old for Brendan.

726
00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:37.740
Look, the thing is, I think Alex Kingston is only in her 40s and I

727
00:32:37.740 --> 00:32:39.539
object...

728
00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:41.819
Oh, okay. that's how I see her.

729
00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:47.460
But that I try not to buy into the Hollywood thing of labelling

730
00:32:47.460 --> 00:32:51.059
women over 35 as older because there's been a run of movies

731
00:32:51.059 --> 00:32:56.579
recently where you've had young male protagonists in their early

732
00:32:56.579 --> 00:32:59.759
20s and their mothers being played by women in their 30s.

733
00:32:59.819 --> 00:33:00.480
Correct.

734
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:01.500
You know?

735
00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:05.160
And I mean, I know I'm saying an older actress here being in their

736
00:33:05.160 --> 00:33:06.059
50s or 60s.

737
00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:09.480
But, you know, when you think about Helen Mirren is 70, Joanna

738
00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:10.740
Lumley is 69 now.

739
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:14.099
I think she's 70 today. 17th day.

740
00:33:14.099 --> 00:33:15.839
Happy birthday, Joanna.

741
00:33:15.900 --> 00:33:17.700
She's Canon.

742
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:20.880
Yeah, I think I think if you're going to have an older companion

743
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:25.799
certainly we just mentioned Evelyn Smythe, wonderfully played by

744
00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:27.000
the late Maggie Stables.

745
00:33:27.059 --> 00:33:32.279
The doctor, of course, in that, obviously, Colin was closer to her

746
00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:36.119
age in real life, but the doctor in that is not outwardly closer

747
00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:36.599
to her age.

748
00:33:36.660 --> 00:33:40.200
Now, the doctor, you've already got this tension of he's much

749
00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:44.519
older than he looks, but at the same time he acts quite often in a

750
00:33:44.519 --> 00:33:48.119
very childish way, you know, as Tom says, at no point, there's no

751
00:33:48.119 --> 00:33:50.759
point in being grown up, if you can't be childish, sometimes, to

752
00:33:50.759 --> 00:33:55.500
then have an older companion figure. being the voice of reason, but

753
00:33:55.500 --> 00:33:57.299
also with a bit of right sense of humour.

754
00:33:57.359 --> 00:33:59.099
I think I think would be great.

755
00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:02.220
And I do hope we see it perhaps with the next doctor if they go

756
00:34:02.220 --> 00:34:03.420
younger than Capaldi.

757
00:34:03.660 --> 00:34:06.960
But yeah, I liked I liked Bill scene.

758
00:34:07.019 --> 00:34:09.300
Todd, you were saying earlier that you didn't think much of the

759
00:34:09.300 --> 00:34:10.860
script, but she performed it very well.

760
00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:11.940
I think I'd have to agree there.

761
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:14.280
You know, it was trademark Moffatt witticisms.

762
00:34:14.340 --> 00:34:16.139
But she was reading them in a fresh way.

763
00:34:16.199 --> 00:34:17.880
She's very talented.

764
00:34:17.940 --> 00:34:21.539
Like she can speak several languages and sing and do all sorts of

765
00:34:21.539 --> 00:34:21.780
things.

766
00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:24.960
So hopefully they'll bring something into the program with that

767
00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:25.380
sort of thing.

768
00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:26.579
Pearl Mackey.

769
00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:27.840
Her name was just escaping me.

770
00:34:28.019 --> 00:34:30.599
Pearl Mackey is the name of the actress.

771
00:34:30.659 --> 00:34:31.199
Excellent.

772
00:34:31.260 --> 00:34:33.900
All right, well, we've talked about like a character who you think

773
00:34:33.900 --> 00:34:35.039
could have travelled with a doctor.

774
00:34:35.099 --> 00:34:37.860
Is there any character who you would have liked to see survive a

775
00:34:37.860 --> 00:34:41.340
story that was killed off?

776
00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:45.599
It's an interesting and hard one, isn't it?

777
00:34:45.659 --> 00:34:46.860
Well, I do have one.

778
00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:48.300
Adelaide.

779
00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:50.099
Yeah, really?

780
00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:53.940
Simply because we get that rather wonderful scene where, you know

781
00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:56.699
she's she's whimpering and moaning about.

782
00:34:56.760 --> 00:34:59.760
I should have listened to Mrs. Nevercott, and we get this great

783
00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:03.420
moment from Leila, where Leila says, you know, there are better

784
00:35:03.420 --> 00:35:06.420
ways than science, and Adelaide kind of starts to consider that.

785
00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:08.219
And so we have some character.

786
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:11.280
We have some character growth for Adelaide, and we have some

787
00:35:11.280 --> 00:35:14.280
character growth for Leila, and Leila is helping someone, and I

788
00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:16.800
really think it's undermined by the fact that Adelaide dies.

789
00:35:16.860 --> 00:35:19.980
I would have liked to seen both Adelaide and Vince survive that

790
00:35:19.980 --> 00:35:22.260
story, but I think the impact of the story is the fact that

791
00:35:22.260 --> 00:35:22.920
everybody does that.

792
00:35:22.980 --> 00:35:23.940
Yeah, yeah.

793
00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:27.059
Scorbi is another one who I would have liked to have seen possibly

794
00:35:27.059 --> 00:35:31.320
survive, just the fact that the villains don't always survive, but

795
00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:32.039
sometimes it's nice.

796
00:35:32.039 --> 00:35:36.840
Like, as horrible as he was, he was, I don't know, there was some

797
00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:37.619
humanity to me.

798
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:39.119
He was really period.

799
00:35:39.179 --> 00:35:41.820
He was straight out of the Sweeney and straight up.

800
00:35:41.880 --> 00:35:43.980
Yeah, and he would have been great to have him, like they did with

801
00:35:43.980 --> 00:35:46.800
Lytton, I think, more successfully crop up in a story later on.

802
00:35:46.860 --> 00:35:47.760
It would have been fun.

803
00:35:47.820 --> 00:35:50.219
Those scenes where he teams up with Sarah are really fun.

804
00:35:50.340 --> 00:35:51.119
They are fun.

805
00:35:51.179 --> 00:35:52.440
Yeah, great chemistry.

806
00:35:52.500 --> 00:35:54.300
Monsters.

807
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:58.199
Is there any monster that you'd like back that you think worked

808
00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:00.360
pretty well and we have never seen back in the series?

809
00:36:00.420 --> 00:36:03.360
Oh, well, I should probably jump in because I didn't get to throw

810
00:36:03.360 --> 00:36:03.900
my last one.

811
00:36:03.960 --> 00:36:05.699
Oh, I have one as well.

812
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:07.800
And it actually goes for this one as well.

813
00:36:07.860 --> 00:36:13.139
I've liked Broton to survive, and I've also liked Nider.

814
00:36:13.139 --> 00:36:16.679
And they should have had their own spinoff. don't care.

815
00:36:16.739 --> 00:36:18.239
And yes, it would have been lovely.

816
00:36:18.300 --> 00:36:20.579
I think they should come back every time.

817
00:36:20.639 --> 00:36:22.139
I just think it's so obvious.

818
00:36:22.199 --> 00:36:23.519
I don't know why they didn't ever see it.

819
00:36:23.579 --> 00:36:24.420
You still with us?

820
00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:26.340
Peter Miles would definitely be agreeing with that.

821
00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:27.480
In Proton?

822
00:36:27.539 --> 00:36:27.840
Yeah.

823
00:36:27.900 --> 00:36:30.420
No, I just thought he was a great character as we covered.

824
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:31.079
He's so camp.

825
00:36:31.139 --> 00:36:32.880
Yeah, I was really disappointed.

826
00:36:32.940 --> 00:36:36.059
He never came back until very recently and it wasn't him.

827
00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:38.579
Oh, anyway, I'm just being silly and flip.

828
00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:40.800
But, yeah, it's sort of a shame.

829
00:36:40.860 --> 00:36:44.219
Scorbio principle, when they're so terrifically great.

830
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:45.719
It's really a shame to let them go.

831
00:36:45.780 --> 00:36:48.840
And it actually shows you can get too much of a good thing because

832
00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:50.760
Davros probably should never have come back.

833
00:36:51.179 --> 00:36:53.699
I wanted to keep Lexa alive.

834
00:36:53.820 --> 00:36:55.440
No, yeah.

835
00:36:55.500 --> 00:36:58.260
As we said, because the death was so poorly done, and just because

836
00:36:58.260 --> 00:37:00.659
she was so charming as a character.

837
00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:02.940
I think that that was a great shame.

838
00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:07.559
Happy to name Jackie Hill every single episode of the podcast.

839
00:37:07.619 --> 00:37:10.739
Yeah, and she's my answer, the one who should have gone on board

840
00:37:10.739 --> 00:37:11.820
the Tartars as well.

841
00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:17.219
Could have had...

842
00:37:17.219 --> 00:37:18.360
Wouldn't that have been awesome?

843
00:37:18.420 --> 00:37:21.420
Oh, I could just see Romana and she just doing each other's.

844
00:37:21.780 --> 00:37:24.179
Each other's extensions.

845
00:37:25.739 --> 00:37:27.780
Oh, God.

846
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:31.440
Imagine what Jackie Hill would have done to Matthew Waterhouse.

847
00:37:31.500 --> 00:37:33.780
She probably would have been very nice to him.

848
00:37:33.840 --> 00:37:34.679
Actually that's true.

849
00:37:34.920 --> 00:37:37.559
She would have been patient and interesting.

850
00:37:37.619 --> 00:37:40.380
Oh, damn, I know. missed opportunities, you know?

851
00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:44.219
He could have used that too. in that 1st year. does sound like...

852
00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:46.679
You know, just imagine if Lala Ward walked off the set when she

853
00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:48.719
met Matthew Waterhouse and they could just could have had Jackie

854
00:37:48.719 --> 00:37:50.880
Hill wander in and say, decided to change again.

855
00:37:50.940 --> 00:37:52.079
She looked fabulous.

856
00:37:52.139 --> 00:37:53.699
Hi, doctor, I'm Romana.

857
00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:55.440
Wow.

858
00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:56.760
Oh, my.

859
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:01.019
Right.

860
00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:04.860
In terms of one off monsters, I'd like to see you come back.

861
00:38:04.920 --> 00:38:06.480
The ones that spring immediately to mind.

862
00:38:06.539 --> 00:38:09.179
I don't actually want them back, but they have come back anyway

863
00:38:09.179 --> 00:38:10.559
and the audience is the crawls.

864
00:38:10.619 --> 00:38:11.219
I mean, who cares?

865
00:38:11.280 --> 00:38:15.420
Oh, they'd come back in the audios, but I'd love to see them on

866
00:38:15.420 --> 00:38:15.840
telly.

867
00:38:15.900 --> 00:38:17.219
You kind of do.

868
00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:18.719
What, the craft?

869
00:38:18.780 --> 00:38:19.920
No, the robots.

870
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:24.179
Ah, the robots, the autonomous robots of dance.

871
00:38:24.239 --> 00:38:25.920
The box and the super box and the dummy.

872
00:38:25.980 --> 00:38:27.179
Why do we never get to see them again?

873
00:38:27.239 --> 00:38:28.260
They're so unfair.

874
00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:28.860
Caldor City.

875
00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:30.000
Caldor City are great.

876
00:38:30.059 --> 00:38:32.579
There's a wonderful big finish audio called Robophobia, which

877
00:38:32.579 --> 00:38:34.920
features some friend of the podcast, Toby Hado.

878
00:38:34.980 --> 00:38:38.219
But yeah, I'd really like to see...

879
00:38:38.219 --> 00:38:39.780
I'd really like to see them again.

880
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:42.599
Tythonians. obviously.

881
00:38:43.739 --> 00:38:45.599
I'm just trying to think.

882
00:38:45.659 --> 00:38:47.699
It's like, uh, Trunk and Ner Trunk and's dead.

883
00:38:47.820 --> 00:38:49.980
The knife on, obviously.

884
00:38:50.340 --> 00:38:51.000
No, that's the thing.

885
00:38:51.059 --> 00:38:52.079
Is Tracandeed.

886
00:38:52.139 --> 00:38:54.840
Can we just, that, that, it's the whole thing of, we saw the earth

887
00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:58.079
die in the arc, and yet we still go to the earth, don't we?

888
00:38:58.139 --> 00:38:59.099
Yes, that's right.

889
00:38:59.159 --> 00:38:59.820
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

890
00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:00.599
We could have trunk.

891
00:39:00.659 --> 00:39:02.039
Oh, you're giving me a glimmer of hope.

892
00:39:02.099 --> 00:39:04.380
It's a time travelling show.

893
00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:06.960
You know, I'm just thinking, big finish, have brought back a lot

894
00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:08.400
of elements from Tom's era.

895
00:39:08.460 --> 00:39:11.460
And when they didn't have Tom, you know, they brought back Crumbs

896
00:39:11.460 --> 00:39:12.599
and they brought back the Nibel.

897
00:39:12.659 --> 00:39:15.480
Anyway, guys, in fact, one of the features of this era is that it

898
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:17.820
doesn't do returning monsters all that much.

899
00:39:17.880 --> 00:39:20.519
So you've got like the Santarans come back.

900
00:39:20.820 --> 00:39:24.659
The Dialects come back, the cybermen come back.

901
00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:28.320
I mean, they don't come back twice in Tom's year, but they're old

902
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:29.460
monsters that return.

903
00:39:29.519 --> 00:39:33.179
And part of that was the setup of Lance trying to kind of ease the

904
00:39:33.179 --> 00:39:34.980
transition a bit.

905
00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:37.320
But, you know, the show doesn't do that.

906
00:39:37.380 --> 00:39:38.760
It does fresh new monsters.

907
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:41.760
It doesn't do what the show is going to start doing, which is just

908
00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:45.360
have a stable of monsters that it just hauls out for a quick run

909
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:46.380
round.

910
00:39:46.380 --> 00:39:47.159
They do start to do.

911
00:39:47.579 --> 00:39:47.760
Yes.

912
00:39:47.820 --> 00:39:49.920
Far too much, yes.

913
00:39:49.980 --> 00:39:51.480
Richard, have you got any?

914
00:39:51.539 --> 00:39:53.639
Apart from broken reminder?

915
00:39:53.699 --> 00:39:54.840
Well, is there anyone else?

916
00:39:54.900 --> 00:39:55.800
Do you call them monsters?

917
00:39:55.920 --> 00:39:58.860
Well, that's how you treat one, isn't it?

918
00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:02.820
I've heard this about Peter Miles.

919
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:06.480
I actually do think the more amorphous and alien the character

920
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:09.659
maybe it's less realised and we do joke about erato, blah, blah

921
00:40:09.659 --> 00:40:09.840
blah.

922
00:40:09.900 --> 00:40:12.360
But the concept, I really do like high concept characters.

923
00:40:12.420 --> 00:40:13.559
We don't see enough of them.

924
00:40:13.860 --> 00:40:17.519
Okay, maybe not erato, but there are other ones.

925
00:40:17.579 --> 00:40:20.639
I just really wish we'd had more of Scaroff.

926
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:26.699
I just, I just want Scarab, really, in the disco suit.

927
00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:28.980
You can't have enough Julian Glover, can you?

928
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:31.920
It's a great looking character, isn't it?

929
00:40:31.980 --> 00:40:33.539
Everything's great.

930
00:40:33.539 --> 00:40:35.159
Is he your favourite guest artist?

931
00:40:35.219 --> 00:40:37.380
Oh, that's so hard to say.

932
00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:40.260
I actually think, no, I think for so many reasons, and the fact

933
00:40:40.260 --> 00:40:42.900
that I'm listened around the hall, every bloody week of my life

934
00:40:42.900 --> 00:40:46.920
Harrison Chase is probably my alternate favourite villain slash

935
00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:47.340
guest.

936
00:40:48.719 --> 00:40:51.840
Nathan, he's your all-time favourite.

937
00:40:51.900 --> 00:40:54.360
I think I do have to go for Julian Glover.

938
00:40:54.539 --> 00:40:57.000
He's so entertaining.

939
00:40:57.059 --> 00:41:01.500
He's just terrific and him and Tom are really terrific together.

940
00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:05.880
And, you know, I just think that story, which is spoiler alert, for

941
00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:09.300
perhaps another question. my favourite Tom's story.

942
00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:11.099
Much of that is down to him.

943
00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:13.559
Brendan?

944
00:41:13.619 --> 00:41:15.119
Beatrix Lehman.

945
00:41:15.179 --> 00:41:16.380
Yeah, okay.

946
00:41:16.380 --> 00:41:16.860
Yeah.

947
00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:17.880
Amelia Rumford.

948
00:41:17.940 --> 00:41:21.719
And it's what I think you said earlier, Richard, or was it your

949
00:41:21.719 --> 00:41:22.139
name?

950
00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:23.280
She bounces so well off Tom.

951
00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:27.659
But not only does she bounce so well off Tom, she bounces really

952
00:41:27.659 --> 00:41:30.360
well off Mary and she bounces off canine.

953
00:41:30.420 --> 00:41:34.019
She pretty much takes over the whole show. to see that, actually

954
00:41:35.340 --> 00:41:37.739
having visions of trampoline.

955
00:41:37.980 --> 00:41:41.519
Richard's tracing her trajectory through the air.

956
00:41:41.579 --> 00:41:44.579
Then maybe she really does need to put a bra on for that last

957
00:41:44.579 --> 00:41:44.820
scene.

958
00:41:45.659 --> 00:41:47.219
Oh, dear.

959
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:48.960
I was hoping not to see that again.

960
00:41:49.019 --> 00:41:52.980
When you have these great guest stars, usually they'll they'll

961
00:41:52.980 --> 00:41:56.159
sort of in the script, they'll latch on to one character.

962
00:41:56.219 --> 00:41:57.480
So it's sort of in season 15.

963
00:41:57.780 --> 00:42:01.739
Most of the guest cast, they're actually reacting and acting with

964
00:42:01.739 --> 00:42:04.860
Louise Jameson and Tom's off staring into the middle distance

965
00:42:04.860 --> 00:42:06.599
because he doesn't want to look at anyone in the face.

966
00:42:07.260 --> 00:42:11.219
Beatrix Lehman breezes into the show and it's like, no, you're all

967
00:42:11.219 --> 00:42:12.719
going to pay attention to me.

968
00:42:13.260 --> 00:42:16.800
And quite right too, because she's fabulous.

969
00:42:16.860 --> 00:42:19.440
So yeah, it has to be Patrick Sleeman for me.

970
00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:21.179
With Susan Engle as a close second.

971
00:42:21.239 --> 00:42:23.940
As the best rom-com Lesbo episode.

972
00:42:23.940 --> 00:42:28.019
I had in Doctor Who, if in fact, the only one until Paradise

973
00:42:28.019 --> 00:42:28.619
Towers, yeah.

974
00:42:28.739 --> 00:42:29.699
Sausage sandwiches.

975
00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:32.579
Yes, those sausage sandwiches. brilliant.

976
00:42:32.699 --> 00:42:33.179
I don't know.

977
00:42:33.239 --> 00:42:36.659
I mean, you've all mentioned characters that I really like in

978
00:42:36.659 --> 00:42:37.920
terms of guest performances.

979
00:42:37.980 --> 00:42:40.619
Harrison Chase does just jump out of you.

980
00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:42.119
I love Pilot 2s.

981
00:42:42.179 --> 00:42:46.079
I just I've always loved Pamela Salem, and of course, Beatrix.

982
00:42:46.139 --> 00:42:49.559
In terms of monsters, I'd love to have a rematch with the

983
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:50.280
crinoids.

984
00:42:50.340 --> 00:42:51.960
Be beautiful.

985
00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:54.420
And I'd also like to see the Magara come back.

986
00:42:54.840 --> 00:42:59.159
And I'd also like the ogre at the same time, but, you know, just

987
00:42:59.159 --> 00:42:59.760
so you can see.

988
00:43:00.539 --> 00:43:03.119
But if they bring them out, they have to do different things.

989
00:43:03.179 --> 00:43:05.760
I want to see the hungry, actually being able to livitate, like, to

990
00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:07.079
2nd story buildings and stuff.

991
00:43:07.139 --> 00:43:07.619
Yeah, yeah.

992
00:43:07.619 --> 00:43:11.099
And criminalids been able to shoot little seeds at people that if

993
00:43:11.099 --> 00:43:13.619
they open their mousecake, they suddenly swallow it and then

994
00:43:13.619 --> 00:43:14.880
that's the way they get infected.

995
00:43:14.940 --> 00:43:19.380
You just give me an acid flashback to a comic from 1974, TV comic

996
00:43:19.380 --> 00:43:25.079
just quickly, did a take on that with Sarah and Tom, and it

997
00:43:25.079 --> 00:43:26.940
was...

998
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:28.199
Does anyone remember this?

999
00:43:28.260 --> 00:43:29.639
They were the daffodils.

1000
00:43:29.699 --> 00:43:30.599
They were yellow daffodils.

1001
00:43:30.659 --> 00:43:33.059
It was definitely a take on the autons, but they spat seeds into

1002
00:43:33.059 --> 00:43:33.719
people's faces.

1003
00:43:33.780 --> 00:43:35.099
Deck flower.

1004
00:43:35.159 --> 00:43:35.400
Yes.

1005
00:43:35.460 --> 00:43:37.920
I really, I had the original editions.

1006
00:43:37.980 --> 00:43:39.300
I haven't seen it since the day.

1007
00:43:39.360 --> 00:43:43.320
It was called Death Flower. and there was lots of Tom and Bessie

1008
00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:43.980
with Sarah.

1009
00:43:44.039 --> 00:43:45.780
It was all, but the drawings were robot.

1010
00:43:45.780 --> 00:43:49.739
The drawings were based on the photos from robots.

1011
00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:51.179
So that might have been it.

1012
00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:55.019
There's one in a battlefield with a Spitfire and the TARDIS is on

1013
00:43:55.019 --> 00:43:55.320
its side.

1014
00:43:55.440 --> 00:43:58.320
It's the 1st time you ever see Sarah trying to climb around and

1015
00:43:58.320 --> 00:43:59.639
tripping over the round or something.

1016
00:43:59.699 --> 00:44:00.000
That it.

1017
00:44:00.059 --> 00:44:01.019
Oh my god, that's it.

1018
00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:05.340
And I had this in 7576.

1019
00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:07.800
Oh, yeah, yeah, it's based on robots.

1020
00:44:07.860 --> 00:44:09.179
So there he does say Sarah.

1021
00:44:09.239 --> 00:44:11.519
Oh, Veg Pro. You know what?

1022
00:44:11.579 --> 00:44:13.019
It actually wasn't that bad.

1023
00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:16.079
Those drawings are not too far for the era when you saw how bad

1024
00:44:16.079 --> 00:44:18.300
they... absolutely is.

1025
00:44:18.420 --> 00:44:20.159
That might be John Canning.

1026
00:44:20.219 --> 00:44:21.179
Yeah, that's drunk.

1027
00:44:21.239 --> 00:44:21.480
Yeah.

1028
00:44:21.539 --> 00:44:24.300
Yeah, but it's like him from the front of a Doctor Who monster

1029
00:44:24.300 --> 00:44:24.780
boy.

1030
00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:26.519
That's what John Canning did all the time.

1031
00:44:26.579 --> 00:44:28.559
Fingering himself with his characters.

1032
00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:29.579
That's it.

1033
00:44:29.639 --> 00:44:31.679
There, there, there. which was an ambassador of death, but at the

1034
00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:32.280
time we didn't know.

1035
00:44:32.340 --> 00:44:34.980
Look, Brendan, this is what it was really good.

1036
00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:36.960
So it is out there and you can see it.

1037
00:44:37.079 --> 00:44:40.380
Oh my god, she's wearing Liz's hat from the ambassadors of death.

1038
00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:43.079
Oh, no, it's supposed to be from Robots.

1039
00:44:43.139 --> 00:44:43.980
I know, I know, right?

1040
00:44:44.039 --> 00:44:45.360
You're just being naughty.

1041
00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:46.139
Yes, I am.

1042
00:44:46.199 --> 00:44:47.519
I'll start with Brendan.

1043
00:44:47.579 --> 00:44:49.019
Your top three.

1044
00:44:49.679 --> 00:44:51.840
Tom Baker stories.

1045
00:44:51.900 --> 00:44:52.260
Is that right?

1046
00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:52.800
Yep.

1047
00:44:52.860 --> 00:44:55.440
Okay, well, I'll start from three.

1048
00:44:55.500 --> 00:44:56.760
Warriors Gate.

1049
00:44:57.780 --> 00:45:04.920
I just think that the choice. the visuals are so beautiful and the

1050
00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:08.820
script and the concept and Rawvik is terrifying.

1051
00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:12.239
But then you've got Aldo and Royce who are hilarious.

1052
00:45:12.300 --> 00:45:18.179
Yeah, it's it's a science fiction Samuel Beckett play with lions

1053
00:45:18.179 --> 00:45:21.000
and it's just wonderful.

1054
00:45:21.420 --> 00:45:24.480
Number 2 is a robot to Death.

1055
00:45:24.599 --> 00:45:28.079
As Stephen Moffatt says, is a whodunit, its status is seriously

1056
00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:30.780
compromised by the title, but...

1057
00:45:31.139 --> 00:45:36.840
A murder mystery thrives on the quality of its fodder, basically.

1058
00:45:36.900 --> 00:45:41.940
You have to care reasonably about the incidental characters who

1059
00:45:41.940 --> 00:45:46.679
get murdered. horribly, horribly murdered.

1060
00:45:46.739 --> 00:45:48.840
And the thing is, you do in this one.

1061
00:45:48.900 --> 00:45:52.739
I mean, even the early characters like Chub, that's bodist.

1062
00:45:54.000 --> 00:45:59.280
Even the characters who were killed early on, like Charm and Cast

1063
00:45:59.280 --> 00:46:03.420
they get character moments, you know, and we get this impression

1064
00:46:03.420 --> 00:46:05.219
that these people have known each other for a while.

1065
00:46:05.340 --> 00:46:10.559
Which I don't think we get as much in, say, the next nearest

1066
00:46:10.559 --> 00:46:12.539
comparison, which is horror of Thang Rock.

1067
00:46:13.079 --> 00:46:16.679
Yeah, and both were written in a relatively short time frame.

1068
00:46:16.739 --> 00:46:17.760
I love horror film.

1069
00:46:17.820 --> 00:46:21.179
Chris Boucher was asked to write robots of death very quickly

1070
00:46:21.179 --> 00:46:22.320
after face of evil.

1071
00:46:22.380 --> 00:46:25.920
That's not, is there lots of Bobsy Holmes innocent, though?

1072
00:46:25.980 --> 00:46:26.940
It is quite boring.

1073
00:46:27.000 --> 00:46:27.599
Is he home?

1074
00:46:27.659 --> 00:46:28.559
I feel I'm feeling it.

1075
00:46:28.619 --> 00:46:31.980
But at the same time, Chris Boucher has a real pawn chant for

1076
00:46:31.980 --> 00:46:32.820
creating interesting characters.

1077
00:46:32.880 --> 00:46:37.320
Except when he writes BBC book.

1078
00:46:37.380 --> 00:46:37.980
That's true.

1079
00:46:38.039 --> 00:46:39.599
He's much better with script.s.

1080
00:46:39.659 --> 00:46:43.079
If you're ever stuck in a jungle and you haven't got any lavatory

1081
00:46:43.079 --> 00:46:43.500
paper.

1082
00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:46.440
Chris Boucher's ovaries then. with you.

1083
00:46:46.500 --> 00:46:47.340
God, they were awful.

1084
00:46:47.400 --> 00:46:48.239
Was it last man standing?

1085
00:46:48.300 --> 00:46:49.320
Last man standing.

1086
00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:50.400
God, it's horrible.

1087
00:46:50.460 --> 00:46:52.739
On the other hand, it is, but I absorb it.

1088
00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:57.659
Career wise, yes, yes.

1089
00:46:57.719 --> 00:47:02.699
And my number one, for reasons I have stated before and will state

1090
00:47:02.699 --> 00:47:05.460
constantly, again, it's the Androids of Tara.

1091
00:47:06.179 --> 00:47:08.400
It's it's lovely.

1092
00:47:08.460 --> 00:47:09.420
It's summery.

1093
00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:11.039
It's light, it's heroic.

1094
00:47:11.099 --> 00:47:12.179
It's got a great villain.

1095
00:47:12.239 --> 00:47:15.480
It's a beautiful moment of Jackie Hill guest starring as time

1096
00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:16.500
would best.

1097
00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:18.239
I never knew that.

1098
00:47:18.300 --> 00:47:19.139
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1099
00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:20.099
They kept it.

1100
00:47:20.159 --> 00:47:21.659
She wanted to come back, but, you know.

1101
00:47:21.659 --> 00:47:23.579
That's Deborah Watley.

1102
00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:27.659
It's got it's got that beautiful, that beautiful moment and it's

1103
00:47:27.659 --> 00:47:31.380
just all in the performance and it's the 1st time Romana looks at

1104
00:47:31.380 --> 00:47:35.219
the doctor in awe and respect when he's...

1105
00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:36.000
It doesn't last.

1106
00:47:36.059 --> 00:47:36.900
You're right.

1107
00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:37.440
No, she does.

1108
00:47:37.739 --> 00:47:41.699
Yeah, but when he is having the sword fight with Grendel and you

1109
00:47:41.699 --> 00:47:45.539
get that beautiful shot of Romana where she suddenly goes, he

1110
00:47:45.539 --> 00:47:47.219
actually knows what he's doing.

1111
00:47:47.940 --> 00:47:52.679
And it's a great story from Mary Tam, not just because she gets to

1112
00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:57.179
play multiple roles, but we've had this very aloof character who's

1113
00:47:57.179 --> 00:48:00.119
not concerned with human life and all of a sudden she has to tend

1114
00:48:00.119 --> 00:48:00.840
to someone who's injured.

1115
00:48:00.900 --> 00:48:02.280
Was she ever not concerned?

1116
00:48:02.340 --> 00:48:06.239
Well, not a sorry, not not cold in cats.

1117
00:48:06.300 --> 00:48:10.440
Not cold not cold and callous about human life, but, you know, just

1118
00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:13.019
sort of walks through the battlefield and doesn't really comment

1119
00:48:13.019 --> 00:48:18.420
on the thing unless unless it's, you know, something planet wide

1120
00:48:18.420 --> 00:48:19.619
such as Xanac.

1121
00:48:19.679 --> 00:48:23.159
But then you get the androids of Tara, where, you know, she's got

1122
00:48:23.159 --> 00:48:27.000
this one individual who's ill and she's caring for him.

1123
00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:29.579
And when she has an opportunity to escape, she says, I'm not

1124
00:48:29.579 --> 00:48:30.119
leaving without you.

1125
00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:33.300
And that then leads to, in the Armageddon factor, we get that

1126
00:48:33.300 --> 00:48:35.880
great moment where she shouts at the doctor that they're horrible

1127
00:48:35.880 --> 00:48:38.460
and they're murderers and how can they do this?

1128
00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:40.559
you know, which it's a pretty terrible story.

1129
00:48:40.619 --> 00:48:41.579
But that scene.

1130
00:48:41.880 --> 00:48:46.380
Where, yeah, and that, for me, starts in the Androids of Tara. and

1131
00:48:46.380 --> 00:48:48.659
it's just a beautiful Disney movie done.

1132
00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:51.059
Is there any story you would avoid?

1133
00:48:51.179 --> 00:48:52.260
Oh.

1134
00:48:53.159 --> 00:48:56.039
Between the power of Croll and Underworld.

1135
00:48:56.099 --> 00:48:57.239
Okay.

1136
00:48:57.300 --> 00:49:00.360
I think I think and I think it has to be the power of Kroll.

1137
00:49:00.420 --> 00:49:02.519
I find underworld more entertaining.

1138
00:49:03.119 --> 00:49:05.280
Yeah, my topic is...

1139
00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:06.179
Go for Power of Kroll.

1140
00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:08.639
Your topic is...

1141
00:49:08.699 --> 00:49:12.059
It isn't, but that's crazy talk.

1142
00:49:12.119 --> 00:49:15.480
Well, no, no, I think City of Death is definitely the top.

1143
00:49:15.539 --> 00:49:16.739
I think it's Whitty.

1144
00:49:16.860 --> 00:49:18.000
It's really fun.

1145
00:49:18.059 --> 00:49:22.500
It's, you know, Tom and Lala are wonderful in it.

1146
00:49:22.559 --> 00:49:26.159
It has a great villain, lots of wonderful location stuff.

1147
00:49:26.219 --> 00:49:28.380
It's a clever script.

1148
00:49:28.440 --> 00:49:31.739
So I think that that's definitely my favourite.

1149
00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:33.659
But if I had to pick three.

1150
00:49:33.719 --> 00:49:37.320
I think, you know, if you ask me next week, I'm sure that I would

1151
00:49:37.320 --> 00:49:39.900
pick different ones.

1152
00:49:39.900 --> 00:49:43.139
I really want to pick something from season 16 because it's so

1153
00:49:43.139 --> 00:49:43.739
good.

1154
00:49:43.920 --> 00:49:49.980
I'm kind of a bit sold on Androids Atara, actually, which is

1155
00:49:49.980 --> 00:49:50.280
great.

1156
00:49:50.340 --> 00:49:52.679
But I mean, I like rebus operation as well.

1157
00:49:52.739 --> 00:49:55.019
I don't enjoy it quite as much.

1158
00:49:55.079 --> 00:49:56.400
I think it's a really strong story.

1159
00:49:56.460 --> 00:49:59.219
Great story, great atmosphere, great characters.

1160
00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:01.739
Yeah, the sets are good, the characters are good.

1161
00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:02.579
I think that's terrific.

1162
00:50:02.639 --> 00:50:05.760
I've always had a massive soft spot for the sun makers.

1163
00:50:05.820 --> 00:50:08.099
I'm picking Bob Holmes stories again.

1164
00:50:08.159 --> 00:50:09.840
They're well written.

1165
00:50:09.900 --> 00:50:10.559
Yeah.

1166
00:50:10.619 --> 00:50:11.880
The Sunmakers is great.

1167
00:50:11.940 --> 00:50:13.440
Like, I think it's really enjoyable.

1168
00:50:13.500 --> 00:50:17.460
It's the 1st it's the most explicit one where the doctor appears

1169
00:50:17.460 --> 00:50:22.440
and tears down a repressive government maybe since the savages, you

1170
00:50:22.440 --> 00:50:22.619
know?

1171
00:50:22.679 --> 00:50:24.300
So I like that a lot.

1172
00:50:24.719 --> 00:50:27.239
I'm like horror fan rock a lot.

1173
00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:30.300
Robots of death is really good.

1174
00:50:30.480 --> 00:50:33.119
Is there anything that you would avoid?

1175
00:50:33.179 --> 00:50:36.420
Yeah, I think underworld has absolutely no redeeming features at

1176
00:50:36.420 --> 00:50:36.599
all.

1177
00:50:36.659 --> 00:50:38.400
It's not entertaining in any way.

1178
00:50:38.460 --> 00:50:42.300
It's, you know, does worse things that the show had done before.

1179
00:50:42.659 --> 00:50:46.679
And is there another story that's not in your top lot that you

1180
00:50:46.679 --> 00:50:48.599
think is underrated by the table fans?

1181
00:50:48.659 --> 00:50:52.500
No, I think Leisure Hime is underrated by me.

1182
00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:54.179
Why didn't I put that in my top?

1183
00:50:57.480 --> 00:51:00.719
Yeah, there's nothing, there's nothing that I think is unjustly

1184
00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:04.500
maligned, really Richard.

1185
00:51:04.559 --> 00:51:05.400
It's interesting.

1186
00:51:05.460 --> 00:51:10.260
All those ones, my immediate go to as well, but then I think, what

1187
00:51:10.260 --> 00:51:15.900
is it that I really take from it or what really compelled me at

1188
00:51:15.900 --> 00:51:18.960
the time, and that is really what we still love about it, and it's

1189
00:51:18.960 --> 00:51:22.380
the atmosphere, and then that is brought about by the, as you were

1190
00:51:22.380 --> 00:51:25.679
just saying, all of you, the characters, the script, the direction

1191
00:51:25.679 --> 00:51:28.800
that are kindly producer, you know, in a good mood.

1192
00:51:28.860 --> 00:51:32.460
But arc in space hasn't been name checked yet.

1193
00:51:32.519 --> 00:51:36.599
And I really love it for, again, I got to the 2nd week in a row.

1194
00:51:36.719 --> 00:51:40.679
I got to stomp around the set of the new alien covenant movie last

1195
00:51:40.679 --> 00:51:42.780
week because we've got friends who were working on it.

1196
00:51:42.840 --> 00:51:46.800
And I was still getting moments of arc in space with what they're

1197
00:51:46.800 --> 00:51:47.219
building there.

1198
00:51:47.340 --> 00:51:49.260
Spoiler alert.

1199
00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:52.619
I can't tell you anything, but you go and see it because you'll

1200
00:51:52.619 --> 00:51:52.920
see.

1201
00:51:52.980 --> 00:51:57.000
Yeah, actually, this is reminding me of, because that imbued and

1202
00:51:57.000 --> 00:51:59.340
really Scott's admitted it, and really Scott was there directing.

1203
00:51:59.400 --> 00:52:04.380
He's still, it's that is still so strong in SF and popular culture

1204
00:52:04.380 --> 00:52:04.739
now.

1205
00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:06.059
So thank you to that.

1206
00:52:06.119 --> 00:52:10.380
And Genesis of the Daleks, although we sort of go, oh, you know

1207
00:52:10.380 --> 00:52:11.940
it's such a cliche, all the rest of it.

1208
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:13.559
It's really scary.

1209
00:52:13.619 --> 00:52:17.519
And when it has moments of humour, it's really funny and it's got

1210
00:52:17.519 --> 00:52:18.119
Nagap.

1211
00:52:18.239 --> 00:52:19.559
So what's not to love?

1212
00:52:19.619 --> 00:52:23.400
So yeah, those, those, I think, would be, apart from ones, you go

1213
00:52:23.400 --> 00:52:26.460
you say yes, because they're lovely, fluffy, marshmallowy, ice

1214
00:52:26.460 --> 00:52:30.300
creamy things like Tara, but the ones that have really affected

1215
00:52:30.300 --> 00:52:35.760
the wider media world of, not just of television, but films for

1216
00:52:35.760 --> 00:52:36.420
those stories.

1217
00:52:36.599 --> 00:52:39.059
And is there anything that you would avoid?

1218
00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:41.699
Other than the ones that you've already said.

1219
00:52:42.179 --> 00:52:47.039
Gosh, again, as a as a teenager, season 18 was my favourite.

1220
00:52:47.099 --> 00:52:50.219
We quickly moved on to just loving the stylishness of it.

1221
00:52:50.280 --> 00:52:51.059
State of decay.

1222
00:52:51.119 --> 00:52:52.199
I absolutely adore it.

1223
00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:57.239
Um, But I can't think of anything in that that I really hated.

1224
00:52:57.300 --> 00:52:59.460
That's probably the reason why it's strong.

1225
00:52:59.579 --> 00:53:00.840
There's plenty in season 15.

1226
00:53:01.139 --> 00:53:04.679
I actually find invasion of time terrific to watch, but for what

1227
00:53:04.679 --> 00:53:08.460
they did to Louise, what they did to the character of Lita.

1228
00:53:08.519 --> 00:53:09.300
I was so.

1229
00:53:09.300 --> 00:53:11.639
It wasn't just disappointed.

1230
00:53:11.699 --> 00:53:15.119
I actually felt betrayed by that ending and I still do.

1231
00:53:15.179 --> 00:53:19.920
So I still think it's a good story, but that last that sequence is

1232
00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:20.219
awful.

1233
00:53:20.460 --> 00:53:25.139
Well, you've mentioned all these stories, you know, arc in space

1234
00:53:25.139 --> 00:53:26.039
robots of death.

1235
00:53:26.099 --> 00:53:29.820
I find it so hard, like City of Death, terror the zygons, which I

1236
00:53:29.820 --> 00:53:30.719
really, really love.

1237
00:53:30.780 --> 00:53:33.539
Jones of Blood is one of my all-time favourites.

1238
00:53:33.659 --> 00:53:37.079
The horror of frame rock is something that really surprised me

1239
00:53:37.079 --> 00:53:38.039
this time round.

1240
00:53:38.099 --> 00:53:40.139
Like I've not really liked it as much as I did.

1241
00:53:40.199 --> 00:53:42.780
Seeds of Doom, like they're all there.

1242
00:53:42.840 --> 00:53:45.659
Like, I mean, trying to pick one of those stories.

1243
00:53:45.719 --> 00:53:47.880
I am finding almost impossible.

1244
00:53:47.940 --> 00:53:49.860
I guess flip a coin today.

1245
00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:51.059
I going to go with stones of blood.

1246
00:53:52.139 --> 00:53:54.659
I would never I would disagree, yeah.

1247
00:53:54.719 --> 00:53:56.159
And I love it.

1248
00:53:56.280 --> 00:54:02.340
In terms of other, yes, I will avoid anything written by Bob Baker

1249
00:54:02.340 --> 00:54:04.860
and Dave Martin, but in particular underworld.

1250
00:54:04.920 --> 00:54:07.800
I think the rebus operation is a story that is undervalued by

1251
00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:08.340
fandom.

1252
00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:11.099
It's something every time I watch it, I go, uh-huh.

1253
00:54:11.219 --> 00:54:15.719
And overrated by fandom is definitely the deadly assassin, and

1254
00:54:15.719 --> 00:54:16.920
I'll say nothing more about that.

1255
00:54:16.980 --> 00:54:20.099
Yeah, it's pretty deadly to slog through, isn't it?

1256
00:54:20.159 --> 00:54:21.119
Although again, great moments.

1257
00:54:21.239 --> 00:54:23.159
Bob Holmes again.

1258
00:54:23.400 --> 00:54:25.619
Sometimes a liability, though.

1259
00:54:25.679 --> 00:54:29.760
So let's do some strong marrying a boy before we get on to writers

1260
00:54:29.760 --> 00:54:31.139
and script editors.

1261
00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:32.880
Richard, Strong, Marion V.

1262
00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:33.420
Oh, God.

1263
00:54:33.480 --> 00:54:36.719
Nider, Broton, Harrison Chase.

1264
00:54:36.780 --> 00:54:40.019
Well, sorry, but I'm actually seeing something that's not fit for

1265
00:54:40.019 --> 00:54:41.280
general viewing right now.

1266
00:54:41.340 --> 00:54:44.940
I'm really How can you choose?

1267
00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:48.599
That's just a pizza of deliciousness right there, isn't it?

1268
00:54:48.659 --> 00:54:52.199
I just want to start fondling the marinara and launching the

1269
00:54:52.199 --> 00:54:52.800
garrison.

1270
00:54:52.920 --> 00:54:57.000
And yeah, I couldn't really do that any bluer, could I?

1271
00:54:57.059 --> 00:54:58.980
Blue cheese topping.

1272
00:54:59.039 --> 00:55:00.840
Okay, so who would you hang with?

1273
00:55:00.900 --> 00:55:03.179
I think Broton would actually end up being the most fun simply

1274
00:55:03.179 --> 00:55:04.320
because he's the most diverse.

1275
00:55:04.380 --> 00:55:06.539
And if you feel bored with him one day, well, he can be someone

1276
00:55:06.539 --> 00:55:07.079
else the next.

1277
00:55:07.139 --> 00:55:10.260
So, yeah, you have to marry Broton.

1278
00:55:10.320 --> 00:55:13.260
I don't think I'd snog Nyder because there is that, there are

1279
00:55:13.260 --> 00:55:13.800
those teeth.

1280
00:55:13.860 --> 00:55:17.940
Um, those yellow tombs, tombsy teeth of doom.

1281
00:55:18.059 --> 00:55:22.199
Um, so maybe I have to avoid neither, and the last one was...

1282
00:55:22.199 --> 00:55:24.300
Harrison Chase.

1283
00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:25.860
Well, obviously.

1284
00:55:25.860 --> 00:55:28.500
Oh, Harrison, say something. can you imagine the fun?

1285
00:55:28.559 --> 00:55:32.280
And you know, he'd launch into a Kenneth Williams, just like, nah

1286
00:55:32.280 --> 00:55:33.599
it would be fantastic.

1287
00:55:33.840 --> 00:55:36.179
I think he'd be quite supple too.

1288
00:55:36.239 --> 00:55:38.880
He does a lot of yoga and sitting cross-legged.

1289
00:55:38.940 --> 00:55:41.579
I think he'd be, you know, be able to swing from a vine with

1290
00:55:41.579 --> 00:55:42.300
alacrity.

1291
00:55:42.360 --> 00:55:43.679
Great.

1292
00:55:43.739 --> 00:55:44.699
Brendan.

1293
00:55:44.760 --> 00:55:47.219
Zastor, the keeper of Tracan or Engen?

1294
00:55:47.280 --> 00:55:49.679
Oh, God.

1295
00:55:49.739 --> 00:55:52.019
Well, you said you liked older me.

1296
00:55:52.079 --> 00:55:53.579
Yeah, fair fine.

1297
00:55:53.639 --> 00:55:55.679
We're all taking a bit of a thing of the old world.

1298
00:55:55.679 --> 00:55:58.679
We all actually consider ourselves to be quite young here at the

1299
00:55:58.679 --> 00:55:59.039
table.

1300
00:55:59.099 --> 00:55:59.519
So, yes.

1301
00:55:59.639 --> 00:56:01.920
Well, to be fair, Rod is older than all of you.

1302
00:56:03.119 --> 00:56:05.099
Glad he's not listening.

1303
00:56:05.639 --> 00:56:07.500
Maybe.

1304
00:56:07.500 --> 00:56:08.579
No, no, no.

1305
00:56:08.699 --> 00:56:09.420
I'm fine with those.

1306
00:56:09.480 --> 00:56:10.800
I'm fine with those three, really.

1307
00:56:10.860 --> 00:56:11.639
Okay.

1308
00:56:11.699 --> 00:56:13.199
Let's consider this.

1309
00:56:13.260 --> 00:56:14.699
Definitely avoid Zaster.

1310
00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:18.420
Oh, he's married for eternity.

1311
00:56:18.480 --> 00:56:23.280
He can see that the universe that binds you and that could be

1312
00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:23.400
fun.

1313
00:56:23.519 --> 00:56:26.940
Come on, we're trying to take you on a guided tour.

1314
00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:28.260
That's what I'm thinking.

1315
00:56:28.320 --> 00:56:30.900
If we're talking about the Dennis Carey keeper of drama.

1316
00:56:30.960 --> 00:56:31.679
Oh, yes.

1317
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:34.320
Yeah, yeah, that could be the Luvik keeper.

1318
00:56:34.380 --> 00:56:35.460
Okay, well, you know what?

1319
00:56:35.519 --> 00:56:36.900
You've only got 24 hours.

1320
00:56:38.579 --> 00:56:40.320
That's the thing.

1321
00:56:40.380 --> 00:56:42.539
If it's the Dennis carrykeeper, drunken.

1322
00:56:42.599 --> 00:56:45.300
It's definitely married because I have all this unlimited power

1323
00:56:45.300 --> 00:56:46.440
and he's dead soon.

1324
00:56:46.559 --> 00:56:48.960
Oh, Cassio, get you.

1325
00:56:49.500 --> 00:56:52.860
And and so, you know, Snogangen.

1326
00:56:53.099 --> 00:56:57.119
Yeah, so, okay, Snogengen, marry the keeper.

1327
00:56:57.179 --> 00:56:59.760
Even if it's the Lubik keeper, Lubik's kind of fun.

1328
00:56:59.820 --> 00:57:01.500
He's cute.

1329
00:57:01.559 --> 00:57:02.699
He looks a bit like your dad, actually.

1330
00:57:03.119 --> 00:57:04.920
With that beard, yeah.

1331
00:57:04.980 --> 00:57:07.860
It looks a bit like John Leeson as well.

1332
00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:10.079
And yeah, avoid...

1333
00:57:10.199 --> 00:57:11.639
Avoid disaster.

1334
00:57:11.699 --> 00:57:12.539
Okay, very good.

1335
00:57:12.599 --> 00:57:15.059
I'm now going to do my own because you know, I just want to do

1336
00:57:15.059 --> 00:57:15.300
that.

1337
00:57:15.360 --> 00:57:20.099
So, um, I've got the Caliak, Sarah Diplos, or Vivian Faye.

1338
00:57:24.059 --> 00:57:28.980
So I'm going to avoid the Caliak because she likes to blood

1339
00:57:28.980 --> 00:57:30.179
sacrifice people.

1340
00:57:30.239 --> 00:57:35.880
Um, I think to Sarah Diplos would be good to um, uh, Snog.

1341
00:57:35.880 --> 00:57:38.579
And I'm going to need to breast silver, couldn't he?

1342
00:57:38.699 --> 00:57:41.039
No, and I'm going to marry Vivian Faye for her sausage

1343
00:57:41.039 --> 00:57:41.460
sandwiches.

1344
00:57:41.519 --> 00:57:43.619
You know what happens to our husbands.

1345
00:57:43.739 --> 00:57:44.639
Anyway, what's Nathan's?

1346
00:57:44.699 --> 00:57:47.099
Robert Holmes, Anthony Reed or Douglas Adams?

1347
00:57:47.159 --> 00:57:47.940
Ooh.

1348
00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:49.019
Wow.

1349
00:57:49.079 --> 00:57:49.860
Wow.

1350
00:57:49.920 --> 00:57:53.880
Anthony Reed has a, well, had a Luvic beard as well.

1351
00:57:53.940 --> 00:57:55.500
So...

1352
00:57:55.500 --> 00:58:01.739
I think I'm going to avoid Anthony Reid.

1353
00:58:01.800 --> 00:58:05.039
I think he's probably the weakest out of those 3 as a script

1354
00:58:05.039 --> 00:58:08.460
editor, and I just can't respect someone who's very good indeed at

1355
00:58:08.460 --> 00:58:08.820
their job.

1356
00:58:09.539 --> 00:58:11.880
Don't you know Android?

1357
00:58:11.940 --> 00:58:15.360
But I think I will...

1358
00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:18.780
I think I'll marry Douglas Adams.

1359
00:58:18.840 --> 00:58:20.460
Oh, yeah, just for the parties.

1360
00:58:20.519 --> 00:58:22.619
Oh, yeah. endlessly entertaining.

1361
00:58:22.679 --> 00:58:23.099
That's right.

1362
00:58:23.159 --> 00:58:27.300
I'd be hanging out with Tom and Richard Dawkins and Lala and all

1363
00:58:27.300 --> 00:58:28.679
of these clever people.

1364
00:58:28.739 --> 00:58:33.000
Yeah, no, I just think he's one of the great comic writers in

1365
00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:34.739
English of the entire 20th century.

1366
00:58:35.039 --> 00:58:39.119
We were so lucky to have him on Doctor Who, you know, beyond Lucky

1367
00:58:39.119 --> 00:58:41.340
but it was just that point in his career.

1368
00:58:41.400 --> 00:58:46.260
Marrying him, but I will be sneaking off to see Robert Holmes on

1369
00:58:46.260 --> 00:58:47.820
the side every so often.

1370
00:58:47.820 --> 00:58:49.019
Just for the pipe.

1371
00:58:49.500 --> 00:58:53.880
That leads us into, obviously, discussion about these 3 scripted

1372
00:58:53.880 --> 00:58:55.199
editors from the 1970s.

1373
00:58:55.260 --> 00:59:00.179
I'm gonna put bid me aside for the moment being 80s, and I think

1374
00:59:00.179 --> 00:59:01.380
we'll have a bigger discussion.

1375
00:59:01.440 --> 00:59:04.500
And we talked about him a lot in the last few podcasts.

1376
00:59:04.559 --> 00:59:06.480
But these 3 script editors.

1377
00:59:06.539 --> 00:59:09.659
What are our thoughts about their legacy on the show and what they

1378
00:59:09.659 --> 00:59:10.320
brought to the table?

1379
00:59:10.440 --> 00:59:13.679
I think Holmes was an absolute genius.

1380
00:59:13.739 --> 00:59:20.579
He had a talent for creating worlds, he had, you know, he did

1381
00:59:20.579 --> 00:59:24.719
biting satire, he was withy, his groups are hilarious.

1382
00:59:24.780 --> 00:59:29.519
And he has a sort of sound idea of what is entertaining.

1383
00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:39.300
But he has a cynicism and I think misogyny, which makes him

1384
00:59:39.300 --> 00:59:39.900
flawed.

1385
00:59:39.960 --> 00:59:44.340
So the show would be poorer without him a lot poorer.

1386
00:59:44.400 --> 00:59:46.679
Same with Blake 7. you know what I mean?

1387
00:59:46.739 --> 00:59:49.559
Like Lake 7 is often not great, but the Holmes episodes are always

1388
00:59:49.559 --> 00:59:52.079
just reliably, really incredibly good.

1389
00:59:52.199 --> 00:59:53.940
But as a script editor.

1390
00:59:54.059 --> 01:00:01.260
Yeah, so as a script editor, he is responsible for, I think

1391
01:00:01.260 --> 01:00:04.800
largely responsible for Hingcliffe's reputation, like the

1392
01:00:04.800 --> 01:00:09.719
Hingcliffe Euras reputation, as a run of really good stories.

1393
01:00:09.780 --> 01:00:13.980
You know, We talk about the budget and stuff and we say that, you

1394
01:00:13.980 --> 01:00:17.039
know, Williams suffered from budgetary problems.

1395
01:00:17.099 --> 01:00:20.099
But he also suffered from scripting problems, and there are some

1396
01:00:20.099 --> 01:00:23.159
terrible scripts under Williams's watch, and there are no, I don't

1397
01:00:23.159 --> 01:00:26.820
think there are any really comparably terrible scripts under

1398
01:00:26.820 --> 01:00:27.840
homes.

1399
01:00:27.900 --> 01:00:32.219
There is that dichotomy or duality between the two, which when he

1400
01:00:32.219 --> 01:00:33.719
masters it, it's extraordinary.

1401
01:00:33.780 --> 01:00:36.780
There's nothing like a last minute effort, we've said before, but

1402
01:00:36.780 --> 01:00:39.719
really putting a lot of adrenaline in and getting something quite

1403
01:00:39.719 --> 01:00:41.820
extraordinary out of it, but you can't keep that up.

1404
01:00:41.880 --> 01:00:43.739
No, no.

1405
01:00:43.739 --> 01:00:45.179
Yeah, Robert Holmes...

1406
01:00:45.659 --> 01:00:48.300
Every year, he's on the show.

1407
01:00:48.360 --> 01:00:50.880
A script falls through and he has to do the replacement.

1408
01:00:51.000 --> 01:00:55.019
And they're often regarded incredibly highly.

1409
01:00:55.079 --> 01:00:59.039
So, and right, this is the arc in space, Pyramids of Mars, Talons

1410
01:00:59.039 --> 01:01:02.519
of Wang Chang, you know, were all scripts meant to be written by

1411
01:01:02.519 --> 01:01:03.179
other writers.

1412
01:01:03.239 --> 01:01:05.880
In some cases completely written.

1413
01:01:05.940 --> 01:01:09.599
The scripts were done and deemed unsuitable.

1414
01:01:09.659 --> 01:01:12.719
Maybe it would have been nice for Anthony Reed at that time to do

1415
01:01:12.719 --> 01:01:14.340
that on, say, Armageddon factor.

1416
01:01:14.400 --> 01:01:18.960
And then you get Douglas Adams, who is just magnificent.

1417
01:01:19.619 --> 01:01:26.519
And the show is suddenly incredibly imaginative and witty.

1418
01:01:26.579 --> 01:01:30.719
At the same time, it's dealing with a huge budget crisis and

1419
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:33.719
everything looks terrible, but sounds wonderful, you know?

1420
01:01:34.199 --> 01:01:38.340
Yeah, it's a weird era of extremes when it's least imaginative

1421
01:01:38.340 --> 01:01:43.380
scripts where perhaps when it had the greatest support from the

1422
01:01:43.380 --> 01:01:43.980
series.

1423
01:01:44.039 --> 01:01:47.280
But then when they started getting more imaginative scripts, the

1424
01:01:47.280 --> 01:01:50.460
BBC were just kind of going, oh, you know, we'll just cut Doctor

1425
01:01:50.460 --> 01:01:52.139
Who's budget and they'll make it work somehow.

1426
01:01:52.380 --> 01:01:57.239
Uh, in terms of quality, look, They're ooh.

1427
01:01:57.300 --> 01:02:00.119
They're all good writers and they're all good at their jobs.

1428
01:02:00.179 --> 01:02:04.500
And the weird, weird thing about the Hinchcliffe Homes era is, you

1429
01:02:04.500 --> 01:02:06.659
know, we counted there were so few roles for women.

1430
01:02:06.719 --> 01:02:09.900
I think we counted 5 speaking women who weren't Sarah across the 3

1431
01:02:09.900 --> 01:02:15.000
years, but at the same time, those characters are Vira and Betan

1432
01:02:15.000 --> 01:02:16.739
and...

1433
01:02:16.800 --> 01:02:19.920
And Miss Winters and twos.

1434
01:02:19.920 --> 01:02:22.320
And...

1435
01:02:22.320 --> 01:02:23.760
Winters again.

1436
01:02:23.820 --> 01:02:26.039
And Amelia Ducar, you know.

1437
01:02:26.099 --> 01:02:27.539
And the Ghoul.

1438
01:02:27.960 --> 01:02:30.300
I can all see that one.

1439
01:02:31.739 --> 01:02:36.000
Yeah, it's kind of weird that they didn't want that many women

1440
01:02:36.000 --> 01:02:38.639
around, but when they had women, they wrote them really

1441
01:02:38.639 --> 01:02:40.559
interesting characters.

1442
01:02:40.619 --> 01:02:41.820
It's also the 70s.

1443
01:02:41.880 --> 01:02:44.699
You watch anything else at the time on television. how it was.

1444
01:02:44.820 --> 01:02:48.179
Yeah, it seemed to be this thing of, and we have a woman and we'll

1445
01:02:48.179 --> 01:02:50.940
have to make her interesting, so boys will watch her.

1446
01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:53.579
Yeah, which is that's slightly ugly.

1447
01:02:53.639 --> 01:02:57.960
Whereas Graham Williams had a lot better roles for women, and we

1448
01:02:57.960 --> 01:03:03.719
get Lady Adrasta, and we get Countess Scarlioni and Claire Keatley

1449
01:03:03.719 --> 01:03:06.360
um, in, in Shada.

1450
01:03:06.420 --> 01:03:07.980
We get Princess Astra.

1451
01:03:08.039 --> 01:03:12.360
We get, um, but is this coming from Williams, is it coming from

1452
01:03:12.360 --> 01:03:15.719
Anthony Reid and Douglas Adams, as script editors?

1453
01:03:15.780 --> 01:03:19.980
Well, That's a good point.

1454
01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:23.219
Yeah, are we, are we getting, am I getting more into the, the

1455
01:03:23.219 --> 01:03:23.760
um...

1456
01:03:23.760 --> 01:03:26.280
Do so side of things now.

1457
01:03:26.340 --> 01:03:26.940
I suppose I am.

1458
01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:30.599
I mean, I think that's the strength of Adams and Anthony Reid, is

1459
01:03:30.599 --> 01:03:35.099
that they're willing to have women in all these roles and allowing

1460
01:03:35.099 --> 01:03:36.480
their writers to do that, you know?

1461
01:03:36.539 --> 01:03:38.880
It's still not that great, though.

1462
01:03:38.940 --> 01:03:40.019
Do you know what I mean?

1463
01:03:40.079 --> 01:03:42.420
It is still overwhelmingly man, isn't it?

1464
01:03:42.480 --> 01:03:45.599
Like, I thought there was a big arctic, but it's not a massive...

1465
01:03:45.659 --> 01:03:47.880
And when they're there, apart from a dresser.

1466
01:03:47.940 --> 01:03:50.099
They're all secondary characters or supports.

1467
01:03:50.159 --> 01:03:54.599
But, you know, when you look at the other sci-fi being made around

1468
01:03:54.599 --> 01:03:56.880
the same time, when you look at Battlestar Galactica, when you

1469
01:03:56.880 --> 01:04:00.239
look at Buck Rogers, I wasn't even thinking of the American ones

1470
01:04:00.239 --> 01:04:02.940
it was the same in British television, apart from Penelope Keith

1471
01:04:02.940 --> 01:04:04.139
everyone else was subservient.

1472
01:04:04.199 --> 01:04:04.679
Yeah.

1473
01:04:04.739 --> 01:04:07.019
Whereas, you know, Doctor Who...

1474
01:04:07.079 --> 01:04:10.260
And certainly it's not every single story, but you do get Amelia

1475
01:04:10.260 --> 01:04:17.340
Dukara, Amelia Rumford, and Vivian Fay, Princess Astra, you know

1476
01:04:17.340 --> 01:04:19.860
it's certainly by no means cursing.

1477
01:04:19.920 --> 01:04:20.880
You've done that one, haven't you?

1478
01:04:20.940 --> 01:04:21.179
Yes.

1479
01:04:21.179 --> 01:04:23.579
Yes, that's...

1480
01:04:24.420 --> 01:04:29.219
Female representation gets better across Tom's era.

1481
01:04:29.219 --> 01:04:31.260
Yeah. than where it felt.

1482
01:04:31.320 --> 01:04:32.820
I mean, Tom gets better across his era.

1483
01:04:32.880 --> 01:04:33.659
You might say not.

1484
01:04:33.719 --> 01:04:36.059
No, no, I think I'd agree with you there.

1485
01:04:36.119 --> 01:04:37.800
I think I'd agree with you.

1486
01:04:37.860 --> 01:04:39.179
I love the different tones.

1487
01:04:39.239 --> 01:04:43.440
I think the material in the Graham Williams era, for which Robert

1488
01:04:43.440 --> 01:04:46.260
Holmes is responsible for the beginning, but you know, you get the

1489
01:04:46.260 --> 01:04:48.480
difference in tone when Anthony Reid comes in.

1490
01:04:48.719 --> 01:04:54.360
Tom reacts very interestingly to the change in tone. know, whereas

1491
01:04:54.360 --> 01:04:56.579
in season 18, he fights the change in tone.

1492
01:04:56.639 --> 01:04:59.820
With Graham Williams, and he did fight with Graham Williams, but

1493
01:04:59.820 --> 01:05:02.159
He...

1494
01:05:02.340 --> 01:05:07.260
I get that at that time that was more about him going, yeah, but

1495
01:05:07.260 --> 01:05:07.800
what are we doing?

1496
01:05:07.860 --> 01:05:10.260
You know, I'm excited, but I want to know what you want me to do.

1497
01:05:10.380 --> 01:05:15.000
And you see a marked change and I think I think he actually has a

1498
01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:17.820
lot more fun as challenging as those 3 years with Graham Williams

1499
01:05:17.820 --> 01:05:19.920
R in terms of budgets and everything.

1500
01:05:19.980 --> 01:05:23.820
He seems to be having more fun than he was with Philip Hingcliff.

1501
01:05:23.880 --> 01:05:26.099
And Robert Holmes.

1502
01:05:26.159 --> 01:05:29.099
I'm not sure if I really answer the question because I want to

1503
01:05:29.099 --> 01:05:29.579
produce this.

1504
01:05:29.639 --> 01:05:31.380
No, no, no, that's cool.

1505
01:05:31.440 --> 01:05:31.800
That's cool.

1506
01:05:31.920 --> 01:05:35.880
I mean, do we want to throw the final scripted into the mix?

1507
01:05:35.940 --> 01:05:37.980
and there's a comparison to the others.

1508
01:05:38.940 --> 01:05:41.280
I know that it's fair to do so.

1509
01:05:41.340 --> 01:05:46.019
I'd rather be a good need to say would end his I think so too

1510
01:05:46.079 --> 01:05:46.320
age.

1511
01:05:46.380 --> 01:05:47.099
It's a different age.

1512
01:05:47.159 --> 01:05:47.760
Yeah.

1513
01:05:47.760 --> 01:05:52.440
I'll say one thing in that he had a clear vision.

1514
01:05:52.679 --> 01:05:54.900
He set out to achieve it.

1515
01:05:54.960 --> 01:05:59.820
And it's laid the groundwork for what will start talking about in

1516
01:05:59.820 --> 01:06:00.480
2 weeks.

1517
01:06:00.539 --> 01:06:02.519
So we'll see how that goes.

1518
01:06:02.579 --> 01:06:05.159
All right, before we wrap up.

1519
01:06:05.219 --> 01:06:10.139
I just want to ask, you know, we're about to go into Davison and

1520
01:06:10.139 --> 01:06:14.460
Davidson years as we sit here now before we get into that.

1521
01:06:14.519 --> 01:06:22.559
What is your current or held opinion of Davison, the Davis, heading

1522
01:06:22.559 --> 01:06:25.320
into Davison, heading into Davis.

1523
01:06:25.380 --> 01:06:27.420
Okay, I'll say something a bit cryptic here.

1524
01:06:27.480 --> 01:06:33.420
Before I started rewatching Davison for the podcast, I found his

1525
01:06:33.420 --> 01:06:34.739
doctor boring.

1526
01:06:35.219 --> 01:06:38.579
Bland, dong, and uninteresting.

1527
01:06:38.639 --> 01:06:39.719
Dong dong.

1528
01:06:39.780 --> 01:06:44.820
All I will say right now is having watched him again for the

1529
01:06:44.820 --> 01:06:45.300
podcast.

1530
01:06:45.420 --> 01:06:47.760
My opinion has changed.

1531
01:06:47.880 --> 01:06:50.699
Ooh, subtly, what is worse?

1532
01:06:51.300 --> 01:06:53.820
Richard, what are you looking forward to?

1533
01:06:53.880 --> 01:06:56.039
I don't know that I coined the term.

1534
01:06:56.099 --> 01:06:59.880
I probably got it off a labelling ad, but I called him vanilla

1535
01:06:59.880 --> 01:07:02.639
beige. in the 80s.

1536
01:07:02.699 --> 01:07:04.380
It actually, and it wasn't just the costume.

1537
01:07:04.440 --> 01:07:08.579
I found him very bland, but I watched the 1st just through the 1st

1538
01:07:08.579 --> 01:07:11.639
season of 19, I'd have to say, not to preempt, but half of them

1539
01:07:11.639 --> 01:07:13.500
had to come out of their plastic wrappers.

1540
01:07:13.559 --> 01:07:15.119
It's better than I remember.

1541
01:07:15.179 --> 01:07:16.320
But for different reasons.

1542
01:07:16.440 --> 01:07:20.340
But I'm not getting the same rush of emotions. certainly that I

1543
01:07:20.340 --> 01:07:22.619
got watching Tom and I thought that was just being a young

1544
01:07:22.619 --> 01:07:22.920
person.

1545
01:07:22.980 --> 01:07:27.780
But I've got a lot of those again watching as a relatively young

1546
01:07:27.780 --> 01:07:28.139
adult.

1547
01:07:28.199 --> 01:07:30.840
Like he said, without any sense of irony.

1548
01:07:30.840 --> 01:07:36.900
I think, I think there's a problem with Davison, and it is that

1549
01:07:36.900 --> 01:07:39.300
we're picking someone to contrast with Tom.

1550
01:07:39.360 --> 01:07:41.280
I want someone to be different from Tom.

1551
01:07:41.340 --> 01:07:46.860
And so the way that they're going to make him different is instead

1552
01:07:46.860 --> 01:07:50.579
of making him this central figure that we all focus on and are

1553
01:07:50.579 --> 01:07:56.039
really entertained to watch, he becomes part of a pretty gruesome

1554
01:07:56.039 --> 01:07:57.960
ensemble.

1555
01:07:58.079 --> 01:08:02.400
And so he's a good actor.

1556
01:08:02.460 --> 01:08:03.780
Probably.

1557
01:08:03.840 --> 01:08:06.539
Um, but he's timied, yeah.

1558
01:08:06.599 --> 01:08:09.360
Yeah, well, he's not given any direction as well.

1559
01:08:09.420 --> 01:08:12.059
You know, the doctorate still has to be the central character.

1560
01:08:12.119 --> 01:08:17.340
Now, he has to be the central character, but they don't really

1561
01:08:17.340 --> 01:08:20.760
have any idea of what they want him to be like or what they really

1562
01:08:20.760 --> 01:08:21.539
want him to do.

1563
01:08:21.659 --> 01:08:25.079
And it is that thing that someone said at the end of the last

1564
01:08:25.079 --> 01:08:30.180
episode where he sits up and kind of looks around like a deer in

1565
01:08:30.180 --> 01:08:32.279
the headlines because he doesn't know what to do next.

1566
01:08:32.279 --> 01:08:35.399
And you do get the impression that no one has actually told him

1567
01:08:35.399 --> 01:08:36.720
what they want of him.

1568
01:08:37.020 --> 01:08:40.979
There's just a lot of nervous cows in the room, in the field

1569
01:08:40.979 --> 01:08:44.399
backing off slowly, because they know what he did on all creatures

1570
01:08:44.399 --> 01:08:44.880
great and small.

1571
01:08:45.720 --> 01:08:49.859
I wonder if the audience is feeling any of the same trepidation.

1572
01:08:50.699 --> 01:08:52.859
It's interesting for myself.

1573
01:08:52.920 --> 01:08:55.079
I never liked him as a kid.

1574
01:08:55.140 --> 01:08:59.039
I gave him a chance in the 1st few stories, I think.

1575
01:08:59.039 --> 01:09:00.779
I was struggling with tour leading.

1576
01:09:00.840 --> 01:09:05.460
I didn't engage with many of the stories. which I often felt let

1577
01:09:05.460 --> 01:09:06.060
down by.

1578
01:09:06.119 --> 01:09:08.819
Yeah, and certainly by the end of it, I just wanted him gone.

1579
01:09:08.939 --> 01:09:09.300
Yeah.

1580
01:09:09.300 --> 01:09:12.119
If you had to come over to my place to watch the book 2 story, I

1581
01:09:12.119 --> 01:09:14.520
will never, ever, ever choose a Peter Davidson.

1582
01:09:14.579 --> 01:09:17.279
He's like the cur twin for you, Nathan.

1583
01:09:17.340 --> 01:09:19.199
Oh, I love Perty.

1584
01:09:19.260 --> 01:09:20.819
He's the Nadir.

1585
01:09:20.880 --> 01:09:22.199
He's got a lot of ironing to do.

1586
01:09:22.260 --> 01:09:24.000
Before what, this journey?

1587
01:09:24.060 --> 01:09:26.699
No, he absolutely did.

1588
01:09:26.699 --> 01:09:27.359
Doctor Who.

1589
01:09:27.420 --> 01:09:28.079
Is that interesting?

1590
01:09:28.140 --> 01:09:32.039
So I guess for me, I fell out of love with Doctor Who.

1591
01:09:32.100 --> 01:09:36.720
And, um, you know, I was watching it, but I didn't, it was more

1592
01:09:36.720 --> 01:09:37.260
out of habit.

1593
01:09:37.439 --> 01:09:39.720
And I guess the thing is this.

1594
01:09:40.439 --> 01:09:42.960
As I was saying, I never go.

1595
01:09:43.020 --> 01:09:45.659
I never, ever go and pick a Davidson, only Davidson I'll ever

1596
01:09:45.659 --> 01:09:46.560
chooses the 5 doctors.

1597
01:09:46.619 --> 01:09:51.180
So I guess in this journey I want, part of me wants to discover

1598
01:09:51.180 --> 01:09:55.079
and I suspect that I will, that he is a good actor, and it's

1599
01:09:55.079 --> 01:09:57.779
possibly what's going on around him, that is what I don't

1600
01:09:57.779 --> 01:09:58.500
particularly like.

1601
01:09:58.560 --> 01:10:02.939
But I'm hoping that there are stories that I will like a lot

1602
01:10:02.939 --> 01:10:03.300
more.

1603
01:10:03.359 --> 01:10:05.159
I mean, you have to come from.

1604
01:10:05.220 --> 01:10:09.060
I'm coming from the base that Kindle was my most hated Dr. 2 story

1605
01:10:09.060 --> 01:10:10.979
of all time, and it's a sequel.

1606
01:10:11.039 --> 01:10:13.680
It sequel was even I loathed it even more.

1607
01:10:13.739 --> 01:10:16.020
I like to even less than Kindle.

1608
01:10:16.079 --> 01:10:18.000
So for me...

1609
01:10:18.060 --> 01:10:19.380
Well, you get that story, you know?

1610
01:10:19.439 --> 01:10:20.279
I know.

1611
01:10:20.340 --> 01:10:25.859
And that season, that season, I mean, is one of for many years has

1612
01:10:25.859 --> 01:10:28.680
been one of my least favourite seasons, season 20, I believe I'm

1613
01:10:28.680 --> 01:10:29.279
going to be on four.

1614
01:10:29.340 --> 01:10:36.899
So I'm actually looking forward to finding good things. in amongst

1615
01:10:36.899 --> 01:10:37.859
whatever is.

1616
01:10:37.920 --> 01:10:40.439
And I think Peter is going to be one of them.

1617
01:10:40.560 --> 01:10:41.520
Wow.

1618
01:10:41.579 --> 01:10:42.899
I adore season 20.

1619
01:10:45.840 --> 01:10:47.640
I almost stopped.

1620
01:10:47.699 --> 01:10:48.659
I almost quit the podcast.

1621
01:10:48.720 --> 01:10:49.680
No, no, no.

1622
01:10:49.739 --> 01:10:50.579
I watched it now.

1623
01:10:50.640 --> 01:10:51.960
I almost didn't get through it.

1624
01:10:52.020 --> 01:10:53.520
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

1625
01:10:53.579 --> 01:10:55.020
Oh, don't...

1626
01:10:55.079 --> 01:10:56.399
Don't let James hear you say that.

1627
01:10:56.460 --> 01:10:57.420
It'll be after your job.

1628
01:11:16.979 --> 01:11:21.239
That brings us to the end of our Tom Baker retrospective dealers.

1629
01:11:21.359 --> 01:11:21.899
No, no, no.

1630
01:11:21.960 --> 01:11:24.600
We'll be back next week with our commentary on K9 and Company.

1631
01:11:24.720 --> 01:11:25.739
K9?

1632
01:11:25.859 --> 01:11:28.979
I think I need to go and pick up a phone and walk out the door at

1633
01:11:28.979 --> 01:11:29.460
the same time.

1634
01:11:31.619 --> 01:11:36.239
Until next week, you can find us online at flightsthroughentirety

1635
01:11:34.979 --> 01:11:38.760
com, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FDE

1636
01:11:38.760 --> 01:11:39.960
podcast on Twitter.

1637
01:11:40.020 --> 01:11:43.560
Don't forget, Doctor Who in 10 seconds over on YouTube, and our

1638
01:11:43.560 --> 01:11:46.739
bond finger commentaries where we've just started the Roger Moore

1639
01:11:46.739 --> 01:11:49.739
era with Live and Let Die on Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on

1640
01:11:49.739 --> 01:11:52.560
Facebook and iTunes and Bondfinger cast on Twitter.

1641
01:11:52.619 --> 01:11:56.819
Until next week, May none of your talking vegetables scupper your

1642
01:11:56.819 --> 01:11:57.720
choice for companion.

1643
01:11:57.779 --> 01:11:59.579
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1644
01:11:59.640 --> 01:12:00.359
Good night.

1645
01:12:00.420 --> 01:12:01.260
See you soon.

1646
01:12:01.319 --> 01:12:01.859
Good, everyone.

1647
01:12:07.979 --> 01:12:12.060
That was Flight Your Entirety with Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley

1648
01:12:12.060 --> 01:12:13.560
Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone.

1649
01:12:13.560 --> 01:12:15.659
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1650
01:12:15.720 --> 01:12:20.880
This episode, it's all about him, was recorded on May 1st, 2016.

1651
01:12:21.060 --> 01:12:23.699
The next episode will be released on June 5th.

1652
01:12:23.819 --> 01:12:27.300
How can one sum up Tom Baker's doctor in one sentence?

1653
01:12:27.359 --> 01:12:29.399
He was a beautiful doctor, probably.

1654
01:12:33.840 --> 01:12:35.520
You hear me?

1655
01:12:35.579 --> 01:12:36.840
Uh, Ken, hold on.

1656
01:12:36.840 --> 01:12:37.979
Can anyone fear me?

1657
01:12:38.039 --> 01:12:39.659
Sorry, let's go.

1658
01:12:39.720 --> 01:12:41.159
It's part of the retrospective.

1659
01:12:41.220 --> 01:12:45.180
You know, I work with someone this tall who's called Balal, and

1660
01:12:45.180 --> 01:12:45.899
it's a man.

1661
01:12:46.020 --> 01:12:48.000
He really is that tall.

1662
01:12:48.060 --> 01:12:49.380
It works out a lot.

1663
01:12:49.439 --> 01:12:51.960
He's very cute if you like actual figures and he's got a Middle

1664
01:12:51.960 --> 01:12:52.199
East.

1665
01:12:52.260 --> 01:12:52.979
Oh, that's right.

1666
01:12:53.039 --> 01:12:53.640
I forgot Alfie.

1667
01:12:53.760 --> 01:12:55.319
And like socks..

1668
01:12:55.380 --> 01:12:57.359
Are you eating Brendan socks, mate.

1669
01:12:57.420 --> 01:12:58.319
And he's got big eyes.

1670
01:12:58.380 --> 01:12:58.920
I can't stop.