WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 16:15:32 1 00:00:30.899 --> 00:00:34.979 Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety 2 00:00:34.979 --> 00:00:38.460 the only Doctor Who podcast, made up of three Silicon Chips 3 00:00:38.460 --> 00:00:40.920 specialising in Apple devices, architecture, and video game 4 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:41.520 trivia. 5 00:00:41.579 --> 00:00:42.299 I'm Brendan. 6 00:00:42.359 --> 00:00:42.960 I'm Nathan. 7 00:00:43.020 --> 00:00:46.079 I'm a regional accent for this episode. 8 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:48.659 Good afternoon, everyone, wherever we are. 9 00:00:48.780 --> 00:00:52.920 And it seems like it's a welcome return to racism for Doctor Who 10 00:00:52.920 --> 00:00:54.299 for to doomsday. 11 00:01:07.980 --> 00:01:11.280 So, the fourth member of the team is race, isn't it? 12 00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:16.200 Now, we have a slightly different kind of racism this time in 13 00:01:16.200 --> 00:01:20.939 Doctor Who, in that we don't have white guys slathered in makeup 14 00:01:20.939 --> 00:01:24.599 to be other races, although we do have West Indian actors 15 00:01:24.599 --> 00:01:29.519 portraying indigenous Australian characters, not Kakuchi. 16 00:01:29.579 --> 00:01:31.379 He is played by an indigenous actor. 17 00:01:31.500 --> 00:01:36.480 But yeah, we kind of have to address that head on. 18 00:01:36.540 --> 00:01:38.459 So for doomsday. 19 00:01:38.519 --> 00:01:42.959 First story recorded by Peter Davidson, a 2nd story broadcast, of 20 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:46.319 course, because they had this idea that we need to get him into 21 00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:50.219 character before we show him being out of character in his 1st 22 00:01:50.219 --> 00:01:50.939 story. 23 00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:53.280 What do we think about that? 24 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:56.159 I actually don't think it's a bad idea. 25 00:01:56.219 --> 00:02:00.359 I mean, one of the things about the post-regenerative trauma thing 26 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:04.680 is that if the actor's taking a little while to kind of bed down 27 00:02:04.680 --> 00:02:08.939 his performance, um, you know, you can kind of forgive it because 28 00:02:08.939 --> 00:02:13.379 he's acting oddly, um, so it wasn't massively necessary because 29 00:02:13.379 --> 00:02:17.460 you've got, you know, 2.5 episodes of Pete lying in a cupboard 30 00:02:17.460 --> 00:02:19.319 essentially before he gets going. 31 00:02:19.860 --> 00:02:24.840 But here, you can actually see him working out what to do, and 32 00:02:24.840 --> 00:02:28.500 there are some things that he does here, that he later jettisons. 33 00:02:28.560 --> 00:02:29.340 I hate. 34 00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:34.379 I hate the bits where he goes out into the ship and he does these 35 00:02:34.379 --> 00:02:38.340 extravagant hand gestures to indicate how much he loves the 36 00:02:38.340 --> 00:02:38.879 technology. 37 00:02:38.939 --> 00:02:42.419 And then he comes in and calls Niss a young lady and says, you 38 00:02:42.419 --> 00:02:44.460 know, innovative, innovative stuff. 39 00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:48.719 He's all writing off over 5 years of the 1970s. 40 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:51.780 I think he's pert for you. 41 00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:54.539 That is a verb. 42 00:02:54.599 --> 00:02:56.759 That is quite right, James. 43 00:02:58.860 --> 00:03:02.400 Another thing he jettisons is terrible puns. 44 00:03:03.479 --> 00:03:08.219 He has quite a few terrible puns over the course of this story. 45 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:09.419 Do you think they're out living? 46 00:03:09.479 --> 00:03:10.500 It is Terrence Dudley. 47 00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:14.580 Um, I gather that it was Pete's idea and it just didn't really 48 00:03:14.580 --> 00:03:18.479 catch on and possibly the Nadir of it, which again ties in with 49 00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:20.520 the racism is I am Lin Fu too. 50 00:03:20.580 --> 00:03:21.900 I would never have guessed it. 51 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:23.639 You look in the best of health to me. 52 00:03:23.699 --> 00:03:25.020 That is so awful. 53 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:27.900 It's your racist grandfather joke. 54 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:29.939 Oh, except it is Bert Cook. 55 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:35.520 I mean, it is Peter Sellers, too, I see from all the Panther 56 00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:35.819 films. 57 00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:36.780 So it is Koto. 58 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:38.520 So it's kind of expected. 59 00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:40.439 And we're going to meta it. 60 00:03:40.500 --> 00:03:43.680 And we should, of course, mentioned that as we record just a few 61 00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:45.900 days ago, Burt Cook has left us. 62 00:03:45.960 --> 00:03:47.580 He's passed away. 63 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:52.860 And I did say to the FTE crew at the time, I do hope that 64 00:03:52.860 --> 00:03:57.479 somewhere up there, Peter Sellers is just waiting in a cupboard to 65 00:03:57.479 --> 00:03:58.500 get his revenge. 66 00:03:58.680 --> 00:04:02.699 But yeah, but Bert's rather good in this, I have to say. 67 00:04:02.819 --> 00:04:04.680 I mean, rather... 68 00:04:04.740 --> 00:04:06.900 Well, then we own him because he's been in everything. been in 69 00:04:06.900 --> 00:04:07.379 every bond. 70 00:04:07.439 --> 00:04:08.520 He's been in... 71 00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:09.539 Avengers. 72 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:13.080 Speaking of whom, this is why this is actually one of lie. 73 00:04:13.139 --> 00:04:15.659 I'm sorry Todd's not here because he'd probably, he was saying 74 00:04:15.659 --> 00:04:16.740 similar things. 75 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:20.399 This is a secret guilty favourite of season 19. 76 00:04:20.579 --> 00:04:24.300 Isn't it exciting to have Billy Hartnell back as the doctor? 77 00:04:24.360 --> 00:04:25.439 But just younger. 78 00:04:25.500 --> 00:04:26.100 It's Billy. 79 00:04:26.819 --> 00:04:27.959 He's doing Billy Ticks. 80 00:04:27.959 --> 00:04:29.339 The Billy Humour stuff. 81 00:04:29.399 --> 00:04:32.759 Even the MacGyver shtick that Pete wanted to keep in the bits of 82 00:04:32.759 --> 00:04:33.540 during the safety pins. 83 00:04:33.660 --> 00:04:35.459 MacGyver was created by Terry Nation. 84 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:36.360 Let's not forget. 85 00:04:36.420 --> 00:04:37.980 They're all billy ticks. 86 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:40.259 Yeah, absolutely. 87 00:04:40.319 --> 00:04:43.620 And Davison wanted his doctor to be someone who solved problems 88 00:04:43.620 --> 00:04:46.379 with items he just happened to have in his pockets, which is why 89 00:04:46.379 --> 00:04:48.959 you get the string and the pencil and the cricket ball. 90 00:04:49.019 --> 00:04:51.779 Aphylactics, the reses, all that kind of thing here. 91 00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:54.180 But are you doing sticks, yes. 92 00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:56.699 Are you aware of another earlier Avengers connection? 93 00:04:56.759 --> 00:04:59.160 Can we talk about mad scientist optometrists? 94 00:04:59.220 --> 00:05:03.839 Well, yes, Philip Locke, who plays bygone in this, is, of course 95 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:06.720 Dr. Primble in Venus with Love. 96 00:05:06.779 --> 00:05:08.399 But going back even early. 97 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:10.439 Tickles and menaces, Diana Riggs. 98 00:05:10.500 --> 00:05:13.259 Again, but as an optometrist, it makes no sense. 99 00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:18.600 But going back even further to one of the surviving episodes of 100 00:05:18.600 --> 00:05:19.800 the Avengers season one. 101 00:05:19.860 --> 00:05:21.660 The Frighteners. 102 00:05:22.139 --> 00:05:27.480 Philip Locke is the henchman, employed by a man called the Deacon 103 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:32.279 who is in turn employed by a businessman played by Stratford Johns 104 00:05:32.279 --> 00:05:34.139 who plays monarch. 105 00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:38.819 So, yeah, 20 years old. 20 years on. 106 00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:40.439 He's really terrible. 107 00:05:40.500 --> 00:05:41.639 Stratford John. 108 00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:43.319 No, Stratford John's is brilliant. 109 00:05:43.379 --> 00:05:44.819 Philip Block is shockingly bad. 110 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:46.379 No, okay. point of difference here. 111 00:05:46.439 --> 00:05:49.620 Well, there's that bit where he talks about the poison and he 112 00:05:49.620 --> 00:05:52.139 waves his arms around in this sort of just terrifically 113 00:05:52.139 --> 00:05:55.019 embarrassing way and he's always sort of wringing his hands and 114 00:05:55.019 --> 00:05:55.680 that kind of thing. 115 00:05:55.740 --> 00:05:58.860 He does the sort of dignified kind of stoic. 116 00:05:58.980 --> 00:06:01.860 Because he's trying to do all of that Socratic dialogue he with 117 00:06:01.860 --> 00:06:03.540 but not of stuff, isn't he? 118 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:05.879 He's trying to look distant without the enchantment. 119 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:09.060 He's literally the Greek chorus in this story. 120 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:10.439 No, that's not true. 121 00:06:10.500 --> 00:06:15.420 The Greek chorus. is enlightenment, persuasion and monarch. 122 00:06:15.480 --> 00:06:19.259 That's true Commenting on the action, which I just think is 123 00:06:19.259 --> 00:06:20.339 terrifically funny. 124 00:06:20.459 --> 00:06:21.899 It's one of the best things ever. 125 00:06:21.959 --> 00:06:26.519 I love, you know, Stratford Johns asks the fabulous enlightenment 126 00:06:26.519 --> 00:06:29.759 what love is, and she explains it, she explains that it's the 127 00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:32.100 exchange of 2 fantasies, majesty. 128 00:06:32.100 --> 00:06:35.040 And you kind of go, that's the best difference. 129 00:06:35.339 --> 00:06:36.899 As yet. 130 00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:38.160 Yeah. 131 00:06:38.220 --> 00:06:43.439 This is one of the ones that on paper looks terrifically right in 132 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:45.779 how to write a classic Doctor Who story. 133 00:06:45.839 --> 00:06:49.259 And I'm not just being flippant when I say this is exciting to 134 00:06:49.259 --> 00:06:52.920 have Billy back because season 19 feels so much like season one to 135 00:06:52.920 --> 00:06:53.160 me. 136 00:06:53.220 --> 00:06:54.180 It really does. 137 00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:57.300 Like that's something, and we'll talk about this more as we go 138 00:06:57.300 --> 00:06:57.540 on. 139 00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:00.120 I was amazed when I was rewatching it, looking at the connections 140 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:01.019 between stories. 141 00:07:01.079 --> 00:07:03.959 I know a lot of people kind of make fun of them for being forced 142 00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:06.300 and we'll talk about the end of this story later. 143 00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:10.139 But at the same time, it does give you. 144 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:13.980 It does give you a much needed sense of reality. 145 00:07:14.040 --> 00:07:20.279 And I say much needed because for the 1st time, we have 3 alien 146 00:07:20.279 --> 00:07:21.899 characters to one human character. 147 00:07:22.259 --> 00:07:25.920 You know, it's it's never happened before in the show that we've 148 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:29.040 had more than a one-to-one ratio of human to alien. 149 00:07:29.100 --> 00:07:30.899 Or alien to human, rather. 150 00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:36.300 And speaking of, conceptually, this story is amazing. 151 00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:38.639 It is a bit like they are. 152 00:07:38.699 --> 00:07:44.100 Just without the slavery. ray for slavery. satire caption. 153 00:07:44.220 --> 00:07:46.620 I miss my security kitchen. 154 00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:50.699 We get the security mobiliary. 155 00:07:50.699 --> 00:07:51.779 And togers. 156 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:52.740 We still get to go on. 157 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:59.519 The concept that you have all these androids who are replicants of 158 00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:03.000 humans on a generational ship. 159 00:08:03.060 --> 00:08:05.399 You know, that's quite high concept from Doctor Who. 160 00:08:05.459 --> 00:08:10.379 It starts to fall apart slightly when the audience realises, but 161 00:08:10.379 --> 00:08:14.579 the characters never seem to realise that most of the cultures 162 00:08:14.579 --> 00:08:21.120 represented either no longer exist in that form, or are 163 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:25.500 sufficiently changed that, you know, even Lin Fu 2 would probably 164 00:08:25.500 --> 00:08:30.540 have trouble negotiating with the Chinese people as monarch 165 00:08:30.540 --> 00:08:32.639 expects him to do, and certainly Kakuchi. 166 00:08:32.940 --> 00:08:37.799 Unfortunately, you know, for the last 200 years when this story 167 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:42.299 takes place, the indigenous people of Australia have not been in 168 00:08:42.299 --> 00:08:43.200 control of the continent. 169 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:45.779 No, isn't that fascinating? 170 00:08:45.840 --> 00:08:47.820 You want to call this racist, there's actually lots of 171 00:08:47.820 --> 00:08:51.120 undercurrents that from an historical perspective, they talk about 172 00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:54.179 who writes history and at what point does history cut off? 173 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:58.919 Because as you just point out, In fact, yes, if we can slice this 174 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:04.259 like a Damian Hearst cow. and find all different flavours as we go 175 00:09:04.259 --> 00:09:04.980 back through the beans. 176 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:08.820 I've actually walked between that cow between the 2 halves in the 177 00:09:08.820 --> 00:09:09.419 tape bottom. 178 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:11.460 We haven't come to the companions. 179 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:17.100 So I actually think that, like we say it's racist, there are some 180 00:09:17.100 --> 00:09:18.000 unfortunate moments. 181 00:09:18.059 --> 00:09:22.679 It's the use of the word aborigine to refer to an aboriginal man 182 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:24.299 which is not racist as such. 183 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:25.379 It's just old-fashioned. 184 00:09:25.500 --> 00:09:27.059 It was also, it was not uncommon. 185 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:27.840 Yeah, yeah. 186 00:09:27.899 --> 00:09:31.980 And the use of the word Chinaman twice, which I think is slightly 187 00:09:31.980 --> 00:09:32.580 embarrassing. 188 00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:34.620 But it is well-intentioned. 189 00:09:35.460 --> 00:09:41.279 In that, it's non-European cultures, like all of the of the 4 190 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:43.740 cultures, only one guy is European. 191 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:45.360 The rest are all from different continents. 192 00:09:45.480 --> 00:09:47.820 There are some unfortunate things about it. 193 00:09:47.879 --> 00:09:51.840 So the sort of cultural appropriation thing is a little bit 194 00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:53.279 awkward and embarrassing. 195 00:09:53.340 --> 00:09:57.360 I actually just find myself cringing a little bit when the sacred 196 00:09:57.360 --> 00:09:59.519 sort of ceremonial dancing thing is happening. 197 00:09:59.580 --> 00:10:01.860 Have we mentioned colonialism yet? 198 00:10:02.279 --> 00:10:04.379 Again, tick, Billy. 199 00:10:04.440 --> 00:10:05.279 Yeah, yeah. 200 00:10:05.820 --> 00:10:09.539 Placeless ones, actually, too, with the way that the people are 201 00:10:09.539 --> 00:10:13.259 stored, but, oh, my God, in a way that you can freeze a thought 202 00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:16.679 shrink people down and erase down. 203 00:10:16.740 --> 00:10:19.919 You can shrink the whole concept of a race down to a dance or a 204 00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:22.559 mask or a descriptor. 205 00:10:22.620 --> 00:10:24.779 Yeah, no, I think that's that's true. 206 00:10:24.840 --> 00:10:28.379 And I also think that of the 4 cultures, the only one who gets a 207 00:10:28.379 --> 00:10:33.960 sort of really sympathetic representative is the white European 208 00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:34.740 guy. 209 00:10:34.799 --> 00:10:37.559 And yeah, and cane toads in space. 210 00:10:37.620 --> 00:10:38.639 They get quite a. 211 00:10:38.700 --> 00:10:39.000 They do. 212 00:10:39.059 --> 00:10:41.100 Yeah, they're sympathetically portrayed, aren't they? 213 00:10:41.220 --> 00:10:42.360 As cane toads, definitely. 214 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:48.480 Because, of course, the reason we get bygone as our, as our 215 00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:55.139 primary guest rebel character is, he says that Velagria, Kakuchi 216 00:10:55.139 --> 00:10:58.980 and Lin Futu have all been corrupted by the desire for power 217 00:10:58.980 --> 00:11:00.779 because they're on European? 218 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:01.259 I don't know. 219 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:05.340 No, because Greek, ancient Athens, like Athens is a democracy. 220 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:08.700 So they're more advanced politically than these other cultures. 221 00:11:08.820 --> 00:11:12.600 Yeah, you know, so there is, so all of that stuff's unintentional 222 00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:13.740 and unfortunate. 223 00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:17.399 I don't think it's consciously racist in the way that I think the 224 00:11:17.399 --> 00:11:19.919 arc is, you know, like deliberately racist. 225 00:11:19.980 --> 00:11:20.940 Yes. 226 00:11:20.940 --> 00:11:25.799 But can we go back to the idea that this is a Hartnell story 227 00:11:25.799 --> 00:11:29.279 because I want to argue against that really vociferously. 228 00:11:29.340 --> 00:11:30.000 Really? 229 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:30.539 Yeah. 230 00:11:30.600 --> 00:11:34.679 The standard the standard thing about it being a Hartnell story is 231 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:38.100 that the characters are exploring a world and discovering things 232 00:11:38.100 --> 00:11:41.460 about the world and we spend the 1st episode basically with the 4 233 00:11:41.460 --> 00:11:45.179 regulars, you know, going around the place, interacting with the 234 00:11:45.179 --> 00:11:47.639 environment and gradually getting to know everyone. 235 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:48.779 I think that's fair enough. 236 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:53.580 But, There's a thing about the 4 regulars that I really, really 237 00:11:53.580 --> 00:11:57.659 dislike, and I may as well get this off my chest during 4 doomsday 238 00:11:57.659 --> 00:12:00.960 so that I can go on and on about it at length over the next, you 239 00:12:00.960 --> 00:12:01.980 know, few weeks. 240 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:06.899 And that is, when we've had 4 characters for main characters in 241 00:12:06.899 --> 00:12:07.200 the past. 242 00:12:07.259 --> 00:12:12.720 The characters of all had definable kind of relationships with one 243 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:14.940 another, so there was Barbara Ian and Susan. 244 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:18.960 There's Ben and Polly and Jamie, and they're all kind of 245 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:19.740 relatable. 246 00:12:19.799 --> 00:12:21.720 They're all identifiable. 247 00:12:21.779 --> 00:12:25.080 There's a really definite kind of attempt to make them people who 248 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:27.960 are part of our world, who are put into the, you know, weird 249 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:30.059 action adventure, fantasy series. 250 00:12:30.179 --> 00:12:33.539 Here, it's just, you know, like a bunch of people who've hung 251 00:12:33.539 --> 00:12:37.200 around inexplicably from previous episodes who really don't have 252 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:39.059 anything very much to do with each other. 253 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:42.480 And certainly episode one where they're all wandering around that 254 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:45.960 room spouting horrific techno battle at each other. 255 00:12:46.019 --> 00:12:48.779 It's something Hartner would have, you know, he would never have 256 00:12:48.779 --> 00:12:50.100 been able to say that. 257 00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:51.899 He would have locked the doors and left. 258 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:55.980 But I think and he don't think he hasn't got form. 259 00:12:56.039 --> 00:12:58.200 He's done it with his own family. 260 00:12:58.259 --> 00:13:02.399 This, um, you've just summed up why season 19 for all the glorious 261 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:03.539 glossy bits. 262 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:09.059 We might as well just finish now because why it falls flat on its 263 00:13:09.059 --> 00:13:10.860 on its soft palate, you know? 264 00:13:10.980 --> 00:13:14.340 on its terrible accents because it's really, that's what it just 265 00:13:14.340 --> 00:13:14.820 keeps doing. 266 00:13:14.940 --> 00:13:18.779 And we can we keep talking about, can we just go, this one is and 267 00:13:18.779 --> 00:13:20.639 story arcing for season 19 before we start. 268 00:13:20.700 --> 00:13:23.940 But we talk about Doctor Who always being superior to other series 269 00:13:23.940 --> 00:13:26.820 because we had story arts and we had character development. 270 00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:28.440 We don't get that in this season. 271 00:13:28.500 --> 00:13:31.259 And already these companions have been around. 272 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:32.399 We've known them since Tom. 273 00:13:32.460 --> 00:13:34.980 They don't seem to have developed a relationship with each other 274 00:13:34.980 --> 00:13:35.399 at all. 275 00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:36.720 They're bickering. 276 00:13:36.779 --> 00:13:39.240 They're the only one that seems to be going there slightly is 277 00:13:39.240 --> 00:13:41.820 Adric, because he keeps giving Nissa the side EI. 278 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:45.120 Yeah, well, he's horrible to both, Mr. and Tegan. 279 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:47.700 I'm just sort of sexist and unpleasant for no reason. 280 00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:51.480 And someone in the cast who picked up on this lack of development 281 00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:55.080 and especially lack of character continuity between stories, was 282 00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:57.179 actually Matthew Waterhouse. 283 00:13:57.179 --> 00:13:58.559 And he raised it. 284 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:00.000 Later or at the time? 285 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:04.200 No, no, he, well, he says he raised it at the time and was sort of 286 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:05.820 told, oh, look, just say the lines. 287 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:09.600 And we've talked about him sometimes being naive on the set, but 288 00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:12.600 he seems to have had the self-awareness to kind of go, okay, I 289 00:14:12.600 --> 00:14:13.860 know when I'm not going to win a battle. 290 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:18.299 But what he said in particular about 4 to doomsday. is that 1st of 291 00:14:18.299 --> 00:14:22.019 all, he kind of objected to the whole, he did object to the whole 292 00:14:22.019 --> 00:14:23.159 sexist dialogue thing. 293 00:14:23.220 --> 00:14:27.360 And I think that might be because, you know, when Adrik comes 294 00:14:27.360 --> 00:14:30.659 aboard the TARDIS, Roman is the smartest person on it, he never 295 00:14:30.659 --> 00:14:32.220 gives her any shift for being a woman. 296 00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:35.340 You know, he never gives her any trouble for that. 297 00:14:35.399 --> 00:14:36.240 He wouldn't dare. 298 00:14:36.299 --> 00:14:37.980 But the main... 299 00:14:37.980 --> 00:14:39.299 We would, actually, roots to him. 300 00:14:39.419 --> 00:14:42.480 Bitme didn't dare. you know, you'd soon try. 301 00:14:42.539 --> 00:14:43.559 I think that's the thing too. 302 00:14:43.620 --> 00:14:44.460 This is a very young cast. 303 00:14:44.580 --> 00:14:48.120 The main thing he objected to, though, for the character of Adrick 304 00:14:48.120 --> 00:14:51.600 was, the whole thing about going along with monarch. 305 00:14:51.659 --> 00:14:52.799 He kind of said, no, we've done this. 306 00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:55.559 We did this in the vampire one, and it's revealed at the end that 307 00:14:55.559 --> 00:14:58.200 he's actually just playing for time, but in this, there's no 308 00:14:58.200 --> 00:14:59.039 reveal of that. 309 00:14:59.100 --> 00:15:02.639 And John Black. the next week as well, in fact. 310 00:15:02.700 --> 00:15:06.000 John Black or whoever it was just said to him, oh, just say the 311 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:06.659 lines, Matthew. 312 00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:09.899 And so the way Matthew started playing it was, he thought to 313 00:15:09.899 --> 00:15:12.840 myself, right, I'm not going to get any character continuity 314 00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:13.559 between stories. 315 00:15:13.620 --> 00:15:16.740 I would just try to make the logic of the story work in each 316 00:15:16.740 --> 00:15:17.820 story. 317 00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:20.879 He's like, that's all I can do because I'm arguing that this 318 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:22.379 happened last week and nobody cares. 319 00:15:22.500 --> 00:15:25.259 It's like watching Voyager with one 8th of the budget. 320 00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:29.340 Which makes Adrick 7 of nine. 321 00:15:29.820 --> 00:15:33.120 I think one eighth of the budget. 322 00:15:33.179 --> 00:15:34.620 Exactly thinking that too. 323 00:15:34.679 --> 00:15:36.899 Six of one, half a dozen of another, more like. 324 00:15:37.019 --> 00:15:40.919 Well, of course, Nicola Bryant, who we haven't got to yet, was on 325 00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:43.139 the short list for Captain Janeway. was 3rd choice. 326 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:43.799 No. 327 00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:47.820 So it was Genevieve Bujol, who was who walked after 2 day 328 00:15:47.820 --> 00:15:48.240 shooting. 329 00:15:48.299 --> 00:15:50.100 Catherine Hepburn who was dead. 330 00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:52.860 So they got Kate Mulgrew. 331 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:55.919 But yeah, Nicola Bryant, like got to the camera, got to the camera 332 00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:56.399 thing. 333 00:15:56.460 --> 00:15:57.000 Do we have that? 334 00:15:57.059 --> 00:15:57.600 Does that exist? 335 00:15:57.720 --> 00:15:58.980 I don't think it does. 336 00:15:59.039 --> 00:16:00.360 I don't think it can you imagine? 337 00:16:00.419 --> 00:16:04.500 Can't we move to the nearby parallel universe in this cast? 338 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:05.159 I wanna live there. 339 00:16:05.220 --> 00:16:07.259 I thought you would have been lying. 340 00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:10.919 But also, there's a Voyager video now, which is every utterance of 341 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:16.080 some sort of or some kind of, and it gets into the 300s. 342 00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:18.600 What are you doing? 343 00:16:18.659 --> 00:16:20.460 Yeah, what are you doing here? 344 00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:22.919 But yeah, you know, so Matthew Waterhouse was thinking about as 345 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:23.340 character. 346 00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:26.039 And of course, at this stage, Sarah Sutton was going to be written 347 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:29.279 out shortly and Peter Davidson campaigned for her to remain. 348 00:16:29.340 --> 00:16:31.679 So they had to keep paying Johnny Byrne to use her. 349 00:16:31.740 --> 00:16:33.659 Is that why they were going to ride around? 350 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:37.799 Well, that's why next week she's only at the beginning and at the 351 00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:40.679 end, because they'd already written Kinder not to feature her. 352 00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:41.159 Right. 353 00:16:41.220 --> 00:16:43.080 And we're spending a lot of time. 354 00:16:43.139 --> 00:16:44.340 That's why she had the salt. 355 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:47.759 She's spending a lot of time in her room building vibrating 356 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:48.299 devices. 357 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:49.320 Yeah, yeah, she is. 358 00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:50.519 I had to get it. 359 00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:51.899 More on that story later. 360 00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:55.139 Back to 4 to Doomsday. 361 00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:58.679 Monarch Enlightenment and Persuasion. 362 00:16:58.740 --> 00:17:00.299 A word on monarch. 363 00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:04.559 Some viewers at the time may have recognised his character from a 364 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:09.720 certain giant green frog in an animated series, namely Baron 365 00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:11.700 Greenback in Danger Mouse. 366 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:16.440 However, this was this was recorded before, but broadcast after 367 00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:18.059 Danger Mouse. 368 00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:20.160 So any similarity is completely coincidental. 369 00:17:20.220 --> 00:17:23.279 Anyone who hasn't met Brendan, if you put him in a white skivvy. 370 00:17:23.339 --> 00:17:27.779 It's actually quite... 371 00:17:27.900 --> 00:17:31.380 The thing is, the voices are so, so very close. 372 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:33.779 When you were little, you were penfold, but you're bigger now. 373 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:34.200 Yes. 374 00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:39.539 I did actually once buy a blue a blue chalk stripe suit to be 375 00:17:39.539 --> 00:17:42.599 Penfold because my boyfriend at the time was much taller and he 376 00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:43.859 wouldn't be Danger Mouse. 377 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:45.180 Which is why he's now dead. 378 00:17:46.380 --> 00:17:50.099 Annie Lambert, of course, it was bugging me where I recognised her 379 00:17:50.099 --> 00:17:50.339 from. 380 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:51.900 Richard, do you know where I recognise her from? 381 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:54.119 Well, I'm trying to remember her from that episode of the New 382 00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:57.299 Avengers, where she undresses Mike Gambit. 383 00:17:57.359 --> 00:17:57.960 Correct. 384 00:17:58.019 --> 00:18:01.440 But she was also hanging about and she's kind of poor man's picnic 385 00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:02.519 at Hanging Rock, isn't she? 386 00:18:02.579 --> 00:18:06.000 But she's, um, gosh, she was in a lot of those British things 387 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:08.940 looking wispy and lovely and about to, um, about to put on 388 00:18:08.940 --> 00:18:13.259 stockings and comport about in a Frenchy type romantic flick. 389 00:18:13.319 --> 00:18:14.819 She was that sort of girl. 390 00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:15.839 Is this the point? 391 00:18:15.900 --> 00:18:18.660 speaking of monarch and persuasion, but they were the names of 392 00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:20.819 Lenin's ministries of propaganda. 393 00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:24.299 He had a ministry of enlightenment and a ministry of persuasion. 394 00:18:24.420 --> 00:18:29.039 And it was the, um, it was the ladder that put the money up for 395 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:32.220 Serjai Eisenstein's career, which is why we have Ptyemka, and 396 00:18:32.220 --> 00:18:32.819 things like that. 397 00:18:32.940 --> 00:18:39.480 So not quite at the German period of film, but we are actually 398 00:18:39.480 --> 00:18:42.180 back at the Russian expression. 399 00:18:43.019 --> 00:18:46.980 And of course, monarch does say that a class system is essential 400 00:18:46.980 --> 00:18:48.059 for good government. 401 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:49.859 There's lots of little lines. 402 00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:52.619 Yeah, there's lots of, which we think are all well, but they're 403 00:18:52.619 --> 00:18:53.460 actually men. 404 00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:57.539 There's so many great ideas in this that just don't quite get 405 00:18:57.539 --> 00:18:58.259 pulled off. 406 00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:02.039 And I do kind of blame Terence Dudley for that because. 407 00:19:02.099 --> 00:19:02.460 Do you though? 408 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:03.720 Because look at the Heartnell era. 409 00:19:03.779 --> 00:19:04.740 It's usually direction. 410 00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:07.319 Yeah, John Black is not good. 411 00:19:07.380 --> 00:19:08.819 I mean, that's a lie. 412 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:09.539 That's not true. 413 00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:10.680 There are some great moments. 414 00:19:10.740 --> 00:19:14.279 I love the bit, like the monopolican point of view shots where the 415 00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:16.079 hat goes on the monopolican and comes off. 416 00:19:16.140 --> 00:19:17.759 There's some beautiful lighting. 417 00:19:17.819 --> 00:19:19.019 I think the lighting is great. 418 00:19:19.140 --> 00:19:20.640 I think the sets are terrific. 419 00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:26.160 But as Todd observed in our canine and company commentary, He does 420 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:28.559 have a huge obsession with people going through doors. 421 00:19:28.619 --> 00:19:29.460 Yes. 422 00:19:29.460 --> 00:19:30.960 Oh, yeah, he does. 423 00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:32.880 Yeah, he does. 424 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:35.460 I got horribly drunk doing that. 425 00:19:35.940 --> 00:19:39.299 I gave up counting after 20 doors on this button. 426 00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:42.119 What I do love about the doors on this one is how they light up 427 00:19:42.119 --> 00:19:42.839 before they open. 428 00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:44.279 You don't even get that on Star Trek. 429 00:19:44.339 --> 00:19:45.660 But my favourite thing. 430 00:19:45.660 --> 00:19:47.700 And, you know, this is a heart and all thing. 431 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:49.019 Very early on. 432 00:19:49.140 --> 00:19:51.299 Tegan goes, look. 433 00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:54.480 And then 5 seconds later, the door lights up and opens. 434 00:19:54.539 --> 00:19:59.519 It's the procognizance of the heart, the lira going, look, a 435 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:02.039 special effect is about to happen because I can see someone's 436 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:02.759 shadow behind the set. 437 00:20:02.819 --> 00:20:07.559 Oh, the problem is that we look at the things that we loved about 438 00:20:07.559 --> 00:20:12.000 Billy's era and Patty's actually where I think that all became 439 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:12.960 more cohesive. 440 00:20:13.019 --> 00:20:17.579 And the team, I think, is trying to feel more like the trout, the 441 00:20:17.579 --> 00:20:18.240 crew. 442 00:20:18.420 --> 00:20:20.759 But there's no cohesion. 443 00:20:20.819 --> 00:20:21.539 No. 444 00:20:21.539 --> 00:20:26.460 And there's no love and and just think that I can, maybe we can 445 00:20:26.460 --> 00:20:30.059 blame neo-conservative politics, ragonomics, statonomics, maybe we 446 00:20:30.059 --> 00:20:34.500 can just blame the Cold War and the threat of a new illness that 447 00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:37.799 really did, we did think it was going to lob a 3rd of the 448 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:40.440 population, more of that when we get to visitation. 449 00:20:40.500 --> 00:20:42.359 But, you know, the HIV virus. 450 00:20:42.420 --> 00:20:44.279 It did look like it was going to kill a lot of people. 451 00:20:44.339 --> 00:20:45.660 Um, and it did. 452 00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:52.200 But, That's no reason to put all of that into a family television 453 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:52.920 program. 454 00:20:52.980 --> 00:20:56.759 I just, I really think it's just the inaptitude and I'm going to 455 00:20:56.759 --> 00:20:58.500 blame the script editor. 456 00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:00.599 I blame the producer, actually. 457 00:21:00.660 --> 00:21:02.099 I think it comes from on high. 458 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:05.400 Except that we have the same producer as last year and last year 459 00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:06.000 was great. 460 00:21:06.059 --> 00:21:07.259 You know. 461 00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:09.359 But last year wasn't great for character. 462 00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:14.279 You did have some strong established cast members. 463 00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:19.019 And they argued against the production values of a coming down 464 00:21:19.019 --> 00:21:19.920 from the bridge. 465 00:21:19.980 --> 00:21:21.420 They weren't going to do. 466 00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:22.740 They weren't going to play it the way. 467 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:25.200 You know, it's like Bala was saying, we need some jokes here. 468 00:21:25.259 --> 00:21:26.819 Chris and John. 469 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:28.500 We actually this needs to be fun for the little kids. 470 00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:29.279 Yeah. 471 00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:33.240 And can I just say, I did have this one on video as a child, but 472 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:37.980 the opening scenes scared me. sort of the ship slowly moving 473 00:21:37.980 --> 00:21:40.799 through space, which is a crib from Alien, and it actually looks 474 00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:41.819 really good. 475 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:45.960 And the sort of darkened laboratory scared me as a kid and I would 476 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:46.319 switch it off. 477 00:21:46.380 --> 00:21:48.539 When I finally got around to watching it. 478 00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:53.400 The character quirks that Peter puts in here in his performance. 479 00:21:53.460 --> 00:21:57.180 I really wish he'd kept a few more of those. 480 00:21:57.240 --> 00:22:00.480 And indeed, it's not entirely his fault because he was told, you 481 00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:03.180 know, tone down the humour, don't make jokes, don't make pums, we 482 00:22:03.180 --> 00:22:05.160 don't want you to be like Tom, et cetera, et cetera. 483 00:22:05.220 --> 00:22:09.180 And I think we do lose something there because he's awkward pums. 484 00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:11.279 He knows they're awkward. 485 00:22:11.339 --> 00:22:14.579 He doesn't think, like, Peter doesn't think they're good jokes, but 486 00:22:14.579 --> 00:22:17.160 the doctor thinks they're good jokes, and it kind of makes him 487 00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:17.700 endearing. 488 00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:19.319 Like, you're having a ball. 489 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:21.779 And you kind of get Adrocanist. 490 00:22:21.779 --> 00:22:23.640 I'll look at each other like, what's a pun? 491 00:22:23.700 --> 00:22:25.319 That works. 492 00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:26.640 That works. 493 00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:28.619 And it's a shame we didn't keep that on. 494 00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:33.240 A characterisation element that doesn't work in this and we've 495 00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:34.140 touched on this before. 496 00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:36.299 Is Tegan? 497 00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:38.460 Oh, she's awful in this. 498 00:22:38.579 --> 00:22:44.640 And Tegan must get better, but that the panicky idiot crying and 499 00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:49.019 she's still doing her panto acting thing, which she she stops 500 00:22:49.019 --> 00:22:51.839 doing in the very next story, I would I would argue. 501 00:22:51.900 --> 00:22:55.980 Todd reckons Black Orchid once she has a few drinks on the crown 502 00:22:55.980 --> 00:22:57.539 least. said that as well, I agree. 503 00:22:57.599 --> 00:22:58.680 It was black. 504 00:22:58.740 --> 00:22:59.880 Right now, yeah, right now. 505 00:22:59.940 --> 00:23:03.180 Yeah, it's her 2nd story and she's overacting horrifically. 506 00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:06.900 And, and, you know, those scenes in the TARDIS, and I don't know 507 00:23:06.900 --> 00:23:09.119 why we have so many scenes in the TARDIS this season. 508 00:23:09.180 --> 00:23:11.640 You're not allowed to get off the ship without being in the big 509 00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:12.119 white room. 510 00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:17.039 And those scenes are just embarrassing to watch, I think, with her 511 00:23:17.039 --> 00:23:21.119 sort of crying and laughing and kicking the manual and crying 512 00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:21.660 again. 513 00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:22.200 Awful. 514 00:23:22.259 --> 00:23:24.599 The one I the one I really have a problem with. 515 00:23:24.660 --> 00:23:26.400 And you know, we're trying to build a relationship with these 516 00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:26.819 characters. 517 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:29.700 We've just had Castra Valva, where the doctor had that lovely 518 00:23:29.700 --> 00:23:33.299 speech about, you are the navigator, you are the coordinator 519 00:23:33.299 --> 00:23:34.259 you're the healer and all this. 520 00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:35.579 That was nice, yeah. 521 00:23:35.579 --> 00:23:39.000 And, you know, what do we see between Tegan and Adrick in this 522 00:23:39.000 --> 00:23:39.299 story? 523 00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:42.839 He is utterly a sexist pig to her. 524 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:45.000 She gives him a concussion. 525 00:23:45.059 --> 00:23:46.319 Oh, I love that. 526 00:23:46.380 --> 00:23:49.440 She smacks him about and he knocks his head against something. 527 00:23:49.500 --> 00:23:51.119 We've met Janet Fielding at college. 528 00:23:51.180 --> 00:23:52.619 We're easy to believe. 529 00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:53.940 Probably improvise. 530 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:55.259 She punched me in the face. 531 00:23:55.319 --> 00:23:57.000 It was awesome. 532 00:23:57.059 --> 00:23:59.099 She kissed me on the cheek. 533 00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:03.420 Did you know she did car ads in secret in Japan in the 1980s? 534 00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:04.440 Did I know that? 535 00:24:04.740 --> 00:24:07.980 Did you know her hair was insured for $10,000? 536 00:24:08.039 --> 00:24:11.039 Did you know she was actually Rachel McAdo? 537 00:24:11.099 --> 00:24:15.180 Mean girls, but they just shopped her face up, shocked, not 538 00:24:15.180 --> 00:24:16.259 shocked, thanks, yeah. 539 00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:18.960 That's how powerful down the building. 540 00:24:19.259 --> 00:24:22.799 This scene is something I do have a bit of a problem with because 541 00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:25.079 you know, Doctor Who's always been under fire for imitable 542 00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:25.559 violence. 543 00:24:25.619 --> 00:24:30.539 And yet one of the regulars throwing the other regular into 544 00:24:30.539 --> 00:24:34.019 something and knocking him unconscious passes without comment. 545 00:24:34.019 --> 00:24:37.019 And I was like, you know, yes, he's being a pig to her. 546 00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:41.460 But, This is a directly violent situation between 2 of the 547 00:24:41.460 --> 00:24:43.019 regulars and nobody comments on it. 548 00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:45.059 Like, Adric doesn't say to the doctor, she knocked me out. 549 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:48.420 The doctor doesn't tell off Tegan for nicking the TARDIS. 550 00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:53.819 The original concept here was that when they decided to keep Nissa 551 00:24:53.819 --> 00:24:56.400 Tegan would feature in 3 stories. 552 00:24:56.460 --> 00:25:00.240 So Lucopoulos, Castravalva, 4 to Doomsday, and she would do 553 00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:02.819 something in 4 to Doomsday where the doctor would be forced to say 554 00:25:02.819 --> 00:25:06.660 listen, you cannot act like this if we are to work together. 555 00:25:07.140 --> 00:25:09.480 You stay or you go your choice. 556 00:25:09.539 --> 00:25:12.779 We have the setup for that, but no payoff. 557 00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:14.579 Why do you think they didn't happen? 558 00:25:15.000 --> 00:25:18.960 I honestly don't know, because, you know, it was in the production 559 00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:19.319 document. 560 00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:22.380 The only thing I can think of is, you know, this script comes in 561 00:25:22.380 --> 00:25:25.440 the awkward time between Anthony Root and Eric Saywood. 562 00:25:25.619 --> 00:25:28.019 I used to call it the dark times. 563 00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:29.099 Dark times. 564 00:25:29.220 --> 00:25:32.640 Um, you know, so I think it was commissioned by Bidmead. 565 00:25:32.700 --> 00:25:36.599 Um, worked on by Anthony Root, and then, say, word came in, and 566 00:25:36.599 --> 00:25:40.259 and I don't often make excuses for say word. 567 00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:43.019 I think fairly wanted to get on with the job he wanted to do. 568 00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:45.960 You know, it's a bit like when Andrew Cartmel comes in later, he 569 00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:48.720 kind of washes his hands of time in Iranian Paradise Towers 570 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:51.660 because he's like, you know, I will do my, I will do my due 571 00:25:51.660 --> 00:25:53.279 diligence on them, but this is not my vision. 572 00:25:53.339 --> 00:25:57.900 I think Eric Say would, for better or for worse, possibly have 573 00:25:57.900 --> 00:25:59.759 that feeling about for the doomsday as well. 574 00:25:59.819 --> 00:26:03.420 I think it'd be better if he had very little to do with it. 575 00:26:03.779 --> 00:26:07.920 We will get to why I think this works at the end, but I want to 576 00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:10.200 hear what you're saying 1st because I don't want to just, you know 577 00:26:10.200 --> 00:26:13.799 the opposite on many podcasts is not listening, it's waiting. 578 00:26:15.059 --> 00:26:17.700 I don't want that to be this episode. 579 00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:21.359 I want to make it clear that I really actually like this story. 580 00:26:21.420 --> 00:26:22.799 You and I both. 581 00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:27.359 And as fondly as I remember it as a 13 year old, I found it just 582 00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:29.039 as enjoyable and on other reasons. 583 00:26:29.099 --> 00:26:31.619 And the race isn't cut if we're going to come back to that. 584 00:26:32.039 --> 00:26:36.660 Yeah, sure, but for 1982 when we were watching this, it was 585 00:26:36.660 --> 00:26:39.240 extraordinary seeing people being allowed to simply represent 586 00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:43.559 cultures as if it's a matter of course, and yet, it didn't feel, it 587 00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:44.400 didn't feel token to me. 588 00:26:44.460 --> 00:26:45.900 It felt like a ruse. 589 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:50.579 It was there to, yes, amuse themselves, but also, you know, as a 590 00:26:50.579 --> 00:26:55.380 way to, in the best possible way to affect political change under 591 00:26:55.380 --> 00:26:58.019 a mask. of appropriated culture. 592 00:26:58.140 --> 00:27:00.660 So they were being cute, but they were planning something. 593 00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:06.359 Yeah, I think my over my overarching feeling about the story is it 594 00:27:06.359 --> 00:27:08.339 gets about 60% of where it wants to go. 595 00:27:08.400 --> 00:27:11.519 Yeah, we have to fill in the gaps ourselves, don't we? 596 00:27:11.579 --> 00:27:11.940 Yeah. 597 00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:15.900 But also, just picking up on something, you said there, Richard. 598 00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:18.960 I really enjoy seeing the other cultures here and I just wish 599 00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:24.119 their characters have been fleshed out more like Bygone's 600 00:27:24.119 --> 00:27:24.299 character. 601 00:27:24.420 --> 00:27:27.059 Unintended, but yes, they they... 602 00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:28.380 Oh yeah, flesh time. 603 00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:34.019 And, you know, it kind of means that at the end, when they're all 604 00:27:34.019 --> 00:27:38.099 happy and smiling, really artificially, like the end of Scooby-Doo 605 00:27:38.099 --> 00:27:40.980 you... 606 00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:45.000 Look, look, look at the dearly loved Bert Quok, you know, it's 607 00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:48.000 just, it's obvious, he's just been told, okay, smile at everyone. 608 00:27:48.059 --> 00:27:49.920 Okay, who do you want me to smile at first? 609 00:27:49.980 --> 00:27:51.299 Go, just smile at everyone. 610 00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:54.599 So he is manically twisting his neck to make sure he gets a smile 611 00:27:54.599 --> 00:27:56.519 in at everyone before the end of the shot. 612 00:27:56.579 --> 00:27:58.619 It's a genius move. 613 00:27:58.680 --> 00:27:59.640 Have a look at it. 614 00:27:59.700 --> 00:28:02.819 The weird thing is, it doesn't feel unfinished in the same way 615 00:28:02.819 --> 00:28:06.480 that other 80s Doctor Who will feel unfinished, which is they feel 616 00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:08.819 visually unfinished and the paint's literally still drying. 617 00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:13.859 This feels conceptually unfinished, which is a pity because 618 00:28:13.859 --> 00:28:17.700 monarch is a fascinating character and this whole idea he can 619 00:28:17.700 --> 00:28:21.299 travel faster than light and then he might meet God. wonderful 620 00:28:21.299 --> 00:28:26.099 high concept. 60s SF writing right there. a really good way. 621 00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:31.920 You know, I kind of wish that they had, that they had gone faster 622 00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:35.099 than I, and that would be his hubris moment instead of just, oh 623 00:28:35.099 --> 00:28:36.779 I'm going to shrink you and put you under this helmet. 624 00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:41.039 It's almost getting to Vonnegut level concept, but again, that's 625 00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:42.480 probably just us filling it in. 626 00:28:42.539 --> 00:28:47.700 So my objection with it is that I just think it's horrifically 627 00:28:47.700 --> 00:28:51.960 slow and that a huge proportion of it consists of characters 628 00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:54.839 wandering around from set to set discovering things. 629 00:28:54.900 --> 00:28:56.160 Through doors? 630 00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:57.059 Very brutally. 631 00:28:57.119 --> 00:29:02.819 Prettily lit, but the plot seems to have no particular momentum. 632 00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:05.460 And I just think not enough happens. 633 00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:08.460 So I think that's a big problem. 634 00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:13.740 So the 1st 2 cliffhangers, there's no peril because nothing is 635 00:29:13.740 --> 00:29:14.519 happening yet. 636 00:29:14.579 --> 00:29:16.740 We're still learning about the world. 637 00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:20.279 And, you know, like having a bit of space to learn about the world 638 00:29:20.279 --> 00:29:20.759 that's cool. 639 00:29:20.819 --> 00:29:24.539 I love arc in space episode one where much more likeable and 640 00:29:24.539 --> 00:29:28.079 entertaining people are wandering around a spaceship of some 641 00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:28.380 kind. 642 00:29:28.440 --> 00:29:31.980 But, you know, the fact that there's no peril in the Clichangato 643 00:29:31.980 --> 00:29:34.980 episode one, where the fabulous enlightenment and persuasion sort 644 00:29:34.980 --> 00:29:37.980 of swan in in what Tegan sketched. 645 00:29:38.099 --> 00:29:42.599 And there's none in episode 2 where you get the bygone reveal. 646 00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:46.500 Oh, can we talk about Philip Lock's timing? 647 00:29:46.500 --> 00:29:50.099 It's an avocado pair. 648 00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:52.859 See, it was shockingly bad. 649 00:29:53.940 --> 00:29:58.019 But then the Cliffhanger to episode 3 is really just sort of 650 00:29:58.019 --> 00:30:01.980 crappily artificial and it's the 1st of 2 the doctor's about to 651 00:30:01.980 --> 00:30:04.380 have his head hacked off. 652 00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:07.680 There's just not enough actually happening. 653 00:30:07.740 --> 00:30:09.299 There's not enough peril. 654 00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:13.140 There's a great deal of word peril, you know, like the title 655 00:30:13.140 --> 00:30:14.519 doomsdays in the title. 656 00:30:14.579 --> 00:30:17.700 So something bad must be about to happen, but what, you know 657 00:30:17.700 --> 00:30:21.599 wouldn't a much more fun story have been, you know, monarch 658 00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:22.740 arriving on earth or something? 659 00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:26.099 You know, like it's just budget. 660 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:27.119 Yeah, no. 661 00:30:28.680 --> 00:30:30.599 Bob Baker and Dave Martin would have written the hell out of 662 00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:30.960 that. 663 00:30:31.019 --> 00:30:32.880 We had that. was called Torchwood. 664 00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:34.980 I think I prefer this. 665 00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:36.480 Oh god, yes. 666 00:30:36.539 --> 00:30:42.359 You know, I was just thinking that the implication is that as the 667 00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:45.059 doctor is trying to get Tegan back to her flight, they get drawn 668 00:30:45.059 --> 00:30:46.799 off course and land on Monarch ship. 669 00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:50.339 And, you know, as I was saying earlier, no one kind of points out 670 00:30:50.339 --> 00:30:52.859 that certainly with the Mayan and indigenous Australian 671 00:30:52.859 --> 00:30:55.619 civilisations, things aren't the same as when Monarch was last 672 00:30:55.619 --> 00:30:55.859 here. 673 00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:59.579 But, you know, what if the episode 3 Cliffhanger was, actually 674 00:30:59.579 --> 00:31:01.559 it's 1450. 675 00:31:01.859 --> 00:31:07.200 So monarch can change history and can take over the world with 676 00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:07.859 these cultures. 677 00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:11.099 Do you think Cartwell watched this as a slightly younger boy. 678 00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:14.039 I think he was only 12 when he took over everything, Doctor Who. 679 00:31:14.099 --> 00:31:17.339 But we are really almost a ghost life, at least in the premise. 680 00:31:17.400 --> 00:31:23.759 You know, yeah, it's just lots of great concepts, not entirely 681 00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:24.599 done well. 682 00:31:24.660 --> 00:31:28.500 But there are there are far greater crimes in Doctor Who than 683 00:31:28.500 --> 00:31:28.680 that. 684 00:31:28.740 --> 00:31:32.819 Doctor Who is always done on a rush, no more so than as we'd later 685 00:31:32.819 --> 00:31:36.000 discover from all the regulars this year, and especially the next 686 00:31:36.000 --> 00:31:40.980 that it's done so quickly that we'll soon not even be rehearsing. 687 00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:43.559 You get the script, you perform it. 688 00:31:43.619 --> 00:31:43.980 That's it. 689 00:31:44.279 --> 00:31:46.859 Looking forward to Frontios there. 690 00:31:46.920 --> 00:31:52.500 But there's, for all of that, Doctor Who's also about what else it 691 00:31:52.500 --> 00:31:53.880 conjures and what else it brings in. 692 00:31:53.940 --> 00:31:57.299 It's always more than what it shows us, and that's the point. 693 00:31:57.359 --> 00:32:00.960 It's actually, you know, it's actually on us as viewers. 694 00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:06.480 To continue that narrative, just as it is for in any performance 695 00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:10.559 of a play, when the audience is expected, that background 696 00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:12.960 knowledge and to supply imagination. 697 00:32:13.319 --> 00:32:16.500 We're expected to do the same thing, I guess. 698 00:32:16.740 --> 00:32:20.039 Part of the relationship that is watching doctor. 699 00:32:20.819 --> 00:32:23.940 Sorry, still, you shouldn't have to bloody make it up for 700 00:32:23.940 --> 00:32:24.359 yourself. 701 00:32:24.420 --> 00:32:25.980 Italian, shouldn't it? 702 00:32:26.579 --> 00:32:28.859 Freaking MasterChef. 703 00:32:45.900 --> 00:32:49.619 Unfortunately, dear listener, Richard's just fainted, so we're 704 00:32:49.619 --> 00:32:51.299 taking him to a garden centre to recover. 705 00:32:51.359 --> 00:32:52.980 Where's me crimping on? 706 00:32:53.460 --> 00:32:56.759 Come back next week as we talk about Kinder. 707 00:32:56.819 --> 00:32:59.700 Don't forget, you can buy this online at flightsthroughentirety 708 00:32:58.500 --> 00:32:59.700 com. 709 00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:02.819 Flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on 710 00:33:02.819 --> 00:33:04.920 Twitter over on Bondfinger. 711 00:33:04.980 --> 00:33:08.880 We've recently started the Roger Moore era of James Bond films. 712 00:33:08.940 --> 00:33:11.519 We're probably about halfway through by now, who can say? 713 00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:15.539 And similarly on Doctor Who in 10 seconds on YouTube. 714 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:18.839 I've maybe got up to season 4 by now. 715 00:33:18.900 --> 00:33:20.039 I have no idea. 716 00:33:20.160 --> 00:33:24.000 But until next week, may none of your Android arms fall into a 717 00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:24.779 bank and hands. 718 00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:26.160 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 719 00:33:26.279 --> 00:33:26.940 Good night. 720 00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:28.440 It's got 3 settings. 721 00:33:28.500 --> 00:33:28.799 Good night. 722 00:33:34.859 --> 00:33:38.339 That was Flight Through Entirety with Nathan Bottomley, Brendan 723 00:33:38.339 --> 00:33:41.400 Jones and Richard Stone, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 724 00:33:41.460 --> 00:33:45.359 This episode, I've walked between that cow, was recorded on the 725 00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:46.920 28th of May 2016. 726 00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:49.559 Next episode will be released on June 26th. 727 00:33:49.619 --> 00:33:53.099 Please stay tuned for the usual blooper, as well as a bit I 728 00:33:53.099 --> 00:33:55.440 recorded after the episode and couldn't figure out where to edit 729 00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:55.799 it in. 730 00:34:02.279 --> 00:34:04.380 Four to doomsday. 731 00:34:04.500 --> 00:34:07.079 Four to doomsday. 28th of June. 732 00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:10.679 May. 28th of May. 733 00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:13.019 Can't be 28th of June. 734 00:34:13.079 --> 00:34:14.099 I be out of a job again next week. 735 00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:15.539 Oh, sweetie, that's exciting. 736 00:34:17.159 --> 00:34:19.800 Yeah, new contract's only 5 weeks. 737 00:34:19.860 --> 00:34:21.360 Maywigs in June. 738 00:34:21.420 --> 00:34:23.099 And be why you got confused. 739 00:34:26.699 --> 00:34:29.219 I do love the gray. 740 00:34:29.340 --> 00:34:31.139 All the gray. 741 00:34:32.099 --> 00:34:34.019 Oh, gray. 742 00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:35.219 Okay, this is a nice toast. 743 00:34:38.340 --> 00:34:40.559 So do we have to talk about forwarder doom today? 744 00:34:40.619 --> 00:34:42.300 I can't remember a thing about it. 745 00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:47.519 The unsung heroes of this story, of course, are the Chinese lion 746 00:34:47.519 --> 00:34:51.659 dance performers, who were actually the wait staff from the 747 00:34:51.659 --> 00:34:55.320 production team's local favourite Chinese restaurant and were 748 00:34:55.320 --> 00:34:58.199 represented by their maitre d', who got them a better deal than 749 00:34:58.199 --> 00:34:58.860 the other extras.