WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 16:19:08

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Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through

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Entirety.

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The only Doctor Who podcast who are always mindful of the Odd

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Brontosaurus.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan, and I'm an all seeing, all knowing neuronic nucleus in

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a spa for this episode.

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So we've managed to kill off Adric, and I'm sure we're going to

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have a deep, deep exploration of the emotional consequences

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thereof and the ontological nature of...

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Oh, it's no, it's time fly.

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You know, Adric really wouldn't want us to mourn, you know.

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He'd want us to go to the Great Exhibition and then never mention

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him again.

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Yeah, he'd want us to be really upset until we found out we were

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going on holiday.

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Miraculously, it's all over in my 30 seconds.

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I'll go and crimp me here, Nissa, have you still got that thing?

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What vibrates your roots?

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It's really terrible.

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It's got to be that episode.

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We're not even drunk, do you listener?

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It's going to be that end of the season thing.

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Ends of the seasons have always been a certain kind of guilty

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pleasure, haven't they?

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Certainly during the Pertuy era, where they're written by Loman or

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whoever.

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Yeah, terrible.

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Is anyone feeling a little bit coronavorian, slappy at this

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point?

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Well, that's actually enjoyable.

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I mean, this does actually share a reasonable amount with a time

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monster, doesn't it?

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Oh, yes.

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In what way?

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Well, it's kind of stupid and it's got time for the title and, you

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know, there's a lot of sort of hijinks with the master and stuff.

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But it's really fun in a way that this just isn't at all.

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It's so boring.

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And so cheap looking.

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To be fair, the beginning stuff in Heathrow Airport is actually

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rather marvellous.

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I think it's really quite fun.

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It's just another one of those little diadems where the pointy

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bits at the top, the 1st episode is a lot of fun.

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We've had several of those.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And it's another example of JNT's master negotiating skills.

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You know, he manages to negotiate the 1st drama to film at

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Heathrow Airport, the 1st drama to film with a Concord, and he

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even started a bidding war between Air France and British Airways

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because British Airways were like, oh, well, you know, you have to

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only film it from this angle and it can't be used for evil

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purposes and this and that.

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And he just kind of wrote in a letter to them.

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Oh, well, thank you very much.

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I'll discuss this with the writer and the script editor to make

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sure we can accommodate you, and we're also expecting to hear back

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from Air France.

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Next later it gets from British Airways.

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We're very happy to grant you filming permission.

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And, you know, without any assurances that any of those things

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were going to happen.

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So it was a masterstroke from him.

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They did get to vet the script.

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But oddly enough, the stuff they wanted to cut out were not what

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you'd expect. were they?

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No. can't direct my brain and remember what the bloody hell they

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were.

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They weren't they weren't the stuff that ends up in a time

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corridor or it's flown by soap stars.

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They did have to change the names of the crew.

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The crew all had different names who just coincidentally enough

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happened to have the same names as British Airways employees, not

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necessarily all captains and flight engineers.

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Or Seraphim.

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Khalid, yes.

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Yes, your wine waiter.

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Don't touch the cheesy morsels.

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You know, as our podcast is likely to have as much semblance of

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sticking together well as this story itself.

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I'm going to chuck in.

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I've met Keith Anthony Time flight drink on several occasions.

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And he's actually lovely.

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He plays on Scobi in this story.

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So he's the flight engineer with the little moustache.

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Oh he's nice.

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He is absolutely lovely.

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I've seen his one man show of Dorian Gray.

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Oh, okay.

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Where he doesn't play Dorian.

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He plays a friend of Dorian's. the narrator from the book and kind

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of all reported, but really scary stuff.

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He is still acting for TV and audio and lots of stage work and

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yeah, living happily in the south of England and he's just a

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lovely, lovely chap.

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It has to be said.

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I quite like him in this.

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I mean, you know, they're all quite likeable.

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I'd watch a show of that, you know, I walked the spinoff sitcom.

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Captain Statley.

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Well, maybe Big Finish should get on it.

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Maybe, you know, they're in the TARDIS and they have a few missing

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adventures before like turning up in hover mode in episode 3 or

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whenever it is.

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Yes, of course.

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And Michael Cashman, who plays the most openly gay character on

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EastEnders, back in about 96, 97.

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And also an openly gay man himself.

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And I think the 1st openly gay MEP from the UK, which is a mobile

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excursion person, personnel suit thing.

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Yes, a member of the European Parliament, which Britain may not

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have for much longer.

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But that's not for here.

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But no, so yeah, Michael Cashman went on, as you say, Richard, 1st

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gay character, primetime British television on EastEnders, but

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also a huge campaigner for gay rights and campaigned against

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Section 28 for many years.

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You know, a lot of people hold up Ian McKellen and rightly so.

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But Michael Cashman was there right alongside Ian McCellen in the

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70s and 80s, you know, going on these protests when going on the

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protests, got you beaten up by police.

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You know, so greatly erect.

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Yes, he's very in this.

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He managed to convince me fancied Tegan in this, I believe.

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There's acting.

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There you go, yes.

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We'll take more care of you.

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He said it was the jingle.

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Do you remember it was on the transmitted version but not in the

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DVD release?

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There was a lot more BA propaganda in this one.

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No, and apparently the techie stuff that they wanted to change was

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with the enormous flight control deck for Concord, which, yes, is

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one bloke with frizzy hair, looking at a scanner, waiting for

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fibreglass meteorites to fall on John Pertwee.

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Bush.

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It's even smaller than the set on Speared from Spain.

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Oh, the pixeless ones Yes, it's even smaller than that.

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I was about to say.

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They had a massive air traffic controller, Gatwick, in that

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faceless ones, and now it's just one bloke with a TRS 80, for

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God's sake.

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You know, if they had a sense something like, we're monitoring the

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Concorde separately because they keep disappearing.

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You know, lampshade that stuff.

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But it's Ron Jones again and he doesn't really care.

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Then what did Andrew Morgan?

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Yes.

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Busy doing squadron. was about, oh, I guess, planes.

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Right, yes.

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They do get him later.

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They do. pretty good.

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I'd like to read you something here at this point.

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It's by a very, very witty writer, namely Me.

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There's a book coming up called Hating to Love, where J.R.

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Southall of the Blue Box podcast and Starburst magazine and the U

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and Who series of books has got a bunch of us together and we're

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all writing about a story which is considered the worst from each

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season of Doctor Who.

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So one of the stories I was given to write about is time flight.

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Now the book's not out yet, but I'd just like to read you my 1st

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paragraph.

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1979.

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Peter Grimwade, a longtime Doctor Who crew member, aspiring writer

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and director, and robot detractor, pictures to then script editor

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Douglas Adams, the concept of an evil force overtaking a gestolt

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alien entity.

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By the time Time Flight came to be produced in 1982, little of

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this original idea remained.

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The concept had been through 4 script editors, 2 producers, one

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executive producer, 5 companions, 2 doctors, and the most unlikely

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shopping list ever to contribute to a collapsing souffle.

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And we refer back to the novel, the plasmaton accumulation enter

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his chamber.

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Even ah, he cried.

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So I don't think even by the time they get to the novelisation

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they're actually bumping that one up, anyway.

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This is such a glorious mess of a story.

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It's just been through so many hands and just thrown before the

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cameras.

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I think we're actually doing it as a live podcast now where you're

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actually going to do an oration on it.

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Yeah, that might be fun.

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It does mean having to watch it again, though.

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Watch the sound down, putting something else.

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I have to say that the thing that I like about this is it's kind

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of ambition.

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So Cornell Day and topping say that the moment it featured a

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Concorde going through to prehistoric Earth, the script should

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have been thrown in the bin.

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I think that that's not the problem with the script at all.

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I think the high concept idea is actually really great.

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You know, they have fun filming at Heathrow Airport, the fact that

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there's a giant big concept and all of that, that's not the

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problem.

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The problem is the execution, and then what happens in episodes

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two, 3, and four.

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Mikano.

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Yeah.

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Oh, well, 4 is just terrible. isn't it?

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A whole episode, they're just putting machines together.

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They're building a flotation tank for they're building an intimate

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spa for a whole lot of daggy old Doctor Who extras.

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Do you know who the flight crew are, the people who can't talk and

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everyone's, you know, receive fan wisdom as these people are all

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terrible?

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It's Val McCrimmon.

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Remember who remember production associate type person?

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Yeah, she took up a gun in the last story.

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That's the one.

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Business per- Oh, there's Leslie Weeks and Barney Lawrence.

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Graham Cole, who was the Melcor, is one of the passengers standing

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around.

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You can tell because he's still a little bit arthritic.

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And even they don't really help, do they?

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I just want to see them in the spa scene at the end when they

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finally break through.

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You know the French and Saunders sketch.

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With the Silurians.

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Yeah, with the cellularians.

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We quoted it before.

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And the way that it characterises how Doctor Who episodes sound is

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they're full of just sort of lamentable techno babble and like

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stupid planet names and stupid.

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This is when the show becomes that.

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Yeah, yeah, this is it.

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And it got some really good ratings for viewers to support that.

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It got over 10000000 in episode one, remember?

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I think we speculated that people were tuning in to see what their

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fallout would be from Andrix dead.

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Yeah, how they how they scraped him off the windchill.

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Not much, really.

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Well, he was still in the cast list.

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And apparently that's another JNT thing that he wanted to not give

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away the surprise of Earthshock.

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And that's the only reason you get a cameo if it was me being

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terrifying all the time, which was really pretty impressive on 1st

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transmission.

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I remember as a boy of 14 thinking, oh, it was another block

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transfer computation thing or it was another one.

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Maybe this Adric is maybe we've not had the real Adrical season

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and he's coming back.

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All kinds of interesting things go through your head, but what is

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wrong with this story is that it ends up being very much like a

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Sloman script or indeed our favourite baker and Martin.

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Yeah, the boys from Bristol, that lots of ideas, little seeds are

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there, but they never germinate.

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They're just tossed away for the next scene.

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Yeah, yeah.

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As I mentioned last week.

252
00:11:23.279 --> 00:11:29.279
This is one that I came to during the 1993, 4 AM repeat season of

253
00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:29.820
Doctor Who.

254
00:11:29.879 --> 00:11:31.740
Drunkenly, yes.

255
00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:39.059
So already this story had as much mythic status for me as, say, the

256
00:11:39.059 --> 00:11:41.159
keys of Marinas or the Aztecs.

257
00:11:41.220 --> 00:11:43.679
You know, it was something I'd only read about in books.

258
00:11:43.740 --> 00:11:44.460
Right.

259
00:11:44.460 --> 00:11:46.379
So coming to it.

260
00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:49.559
The thing I really latched onto and the thing that really excited

261
00:11:49.559 --> 00:11:54.059
me was the stuff in episode 3 with Xeraphim.

262
00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:55.379
They're terrible.

263
00:11:55.440 --> 00:11:56.519
Well, that's the thing.

264
00:11:56.580 --> 00:12:00.120
I look at it now when I go, this is such a brilliant concept and

265
00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:03.179
it was the central concept that Peter Grimwade came up with, but

266
00:12:03.179 --> 00:12:05.399
it just gets buried under all this crap.

267
00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:08.700
I'm more concerned that we end up on the set of Jurassic Park.

268
00:12:08.759 --> 00:12:10.200
Well, that's...

269
00:12:10.200 --> 00:12:11.759
There's the BBC in terms.

270
00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:15.299
But that's the other thing too. is that there's no money at this

271
00:12:15.299 --> 00:12:15.539
point.

272
00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:17.460
And really bites, doesn't it?

273
00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:18.299
It's terrible.

274
00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:21.899
Like the exteriors are just lamentable.

275
00:12:21.960 --> 00:12:23.519
I mean, they're so poor.

276
00:12:23.580 --> 00:12:27.419
You do expect Billy to wander past them casting his shadow on the

277
00:12:27.419 --> 00:12:28.259
distance.

278
00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:30.899
I was just seeing Barbara in that feathered hat.

279
00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:32.940
Oi, who's in charge?

280
00:12:33.000 --> 00:12:34.080
I am worship me.

281
00:12:34.139 --> 00:12:35.580
I wanted a bit of that.

282
00:12:35.639 --> 00:12:37.379
That's what they need to do with the characters.

283
00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:40.740
Again, Nissa is standing around being meaningful and slumping

284
00:12:40.740 --> 00:12:45.000
against a bit of polystyrene and getting Osmos at they're not

285
00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:46.379
using the wit or the drive.

286
00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:49.799
Janet gets to, you know, do a few welcome aboard speeches and it's

287
00:12:49.799 --> 00:12:51.419
reasonably truculent with that.

288
00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:52.919
But it's still not enough, is it?

289
00:12:53.039 --> 00:12:58.080
We're sorry for the delay passengers. script.

290
00:12:58.139 --> 00:13:02.820
It was a messy, as you were saying, it's a messy conjoining, isn't

291
00:13:02.820 --> 00:13:03.000
it?

292
00:13:03.059 --> 00:13:04.259
The growth and birth of this story.

293
00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:05.399
Yeah.

294
00:13:05.460 --> 00:13:07.320
Something that really doesn't help in.

295
00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:10.139
And for years, I've been fighting against people who complain that

296
00:13:10.139 --> 00:13:14.940
in the studio, Concord is represented by one very slim wheel.

297
00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:18.120
But I've just realised the problem with that is we've already seen

298
00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:22.559
shots of Concord on location with that wheel and you can see the

299
00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:23.879
shadow of the thing overhead.

300
00:13:23.940 --> 00:13:26.820
And whenever anyone's standing next to the wheel of the Concord.

301
00:13:26.879 --> 00:13:29.279
I've literally just realised this in the last 20 seconds.

302
00:13:29.340 --> 00:13:30.779
There's no shadow over the top of them.

303
00:13:30.840 --> 00:13:33.539
The lighting in this is it's the lighting that lets this one

304
00:13:33.539 --> 00:13:33.779
down.

305
00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:38.580
It's the bland, flat Star Trek next gen season 2 problem of, no

306
00:13:38.580 --> 00:13:40.799
actually even they were aware of it by then.

307
00:13:40.860 --> 00:13:42.480
Flat overarching.

308
00:13:42.539 --> 00:13:43.559
Acorn antiques.

309
00:13:43.620 --> 00:13:44.639
It's Ron Jones.

310
00:13:44.700 --> 00:13:46.559
Is it really Ron Jones?

311
00:13:46.620 --> 00:13:50.220
Because, okay, Ron Jones has done Black Orchard this season?

312
00:13:50.279 --> 00:13:51.600
And it's a bit hard.

313
00:13:51.659 --> 00:13:53.820
He doesn't get the right, like, you can't get the lighting wrong

314
00:13:53.820 --> 00:13:54.600
on Black Orchard.

315
00:13:54.659 --> 00:13:55.500
But he does this.

316
00:13:55.559 --> 00:13:58.559
He does, I think, Arc of Infinity next season.

317
00:13:58.620 --> 00:14:01.019
He does vengeance on Varos.

318
00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:06.059
Yeah, Ron Jones is very much your point the cameras at the actors

319
00:14:06.059 --> 00:14:07.500
when they say the words, okay.

320
00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:08.399
Is it time to go?

321
00:14:08.460 --> 00:14:11.519
And you're getting a lovely line or 6 of you just straight up

322
00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:14.460
there and just, oh, look, 3 quarters that way and the camera will

323
00:14:14.460 --> 00:14:14.940
shoot you?

324
00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:17.159
It's very high school Shakespeare, isn't it?

325
00:14:17.220 --> 00:14:20.100
Just the arrangements of the actors, the 4th wall thing.

326
00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:23.519
And the monster that looks like a poo with leg.

327
00:14:23.820 --> 00:14:25.620
What are they thinking?

328
00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:29.340
What our favourite, favourite characters have not gone much

329
00:14:29.340 --> 00:14:30.059
further than that.

330
00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:32.039
There's an emoji of it.

331
00:14:32.100 --> 00:14:32.879
Have you seen it?

332
00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:33.240
Yes.

333
00:14:33.779 --> 00:14:35.519
The smiling plasmaton emoji.

334
00:14:35.580 --> 00:14:36.899
Yeah, to the lies in a brown thing.

335
00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:40.799
Well, you remember that we used to get white dog poo on the lawn?

336
00:14:40.860 --> 00:14:41.759
We did used to.

337
00:14:41.820 --> 00:14:45.480
This is the white dog poo of a gel guard because they've got the

338
00:14:45.480 --> 00:14:47.159
same kind of clear bubble.

339
00:14:47.220 --> 00:14:49.139
And when you get a few close-ups of them.

340
00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:51.840
You do see an eye moving around inside their gel guards.

341
00:14:51.899 --> 00:14:54.299
Oh, calcified dog turts.

342
00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:55.860
This is exactly what happened to the milk core.

343
00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:01.919
Speaking of calcified dog turds, of course, the masters in this

344
00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:02.100
one.

345
00:15:02.820 --> 00:15:05.399
Oh, can we get to Khalid?

346
00:15:05.460 --> 00:15:08.279
I was at one of my best friend at school was called Khalil and

347
00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:09.360
didn't he cop it this week?

348
00:15:09.419 --> 00:15:12.840
with this coming up because again, not doing the accent.

349
00:15:12.899 --> 00:15:14.700
But okay, I'll admit it.

350
00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:17.340
I was 14 years old, I thought I was a little bit swank.

351
00:15:17.399 --> 00:15:19.379
I didn't guess it was Anthony Aimling.

352
00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:24.120
No, because he's doing your sort of racist grandfather's imitation

353
00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:26.159
of an Arabian kind of wizard.

354
00:15:26.279 --> 00:15:30.000
That being said, is Ronnie Barker, isn't it?

355
00:15:30.059 --> 00:15:32.460
Khalid is at least entertaining.

356
00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:34.019
Yeah, no, he was.

357
00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:38.759
He's certainly entertaining, Pete, because Pete is laughing.

358
00:15:38.820 --> 00:15:39.720
Yeah, he really is.

359
00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:44.220
I mean, the thing is, when people say, you know, it's an Arabic

360
00:15:44.220 --> 00:15:45.299
stereotype.

361
00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:48.539
I certainly see that now, but I think they have tried to mitigate

362
00:15:48.539 --> 00:15:51.720
it by making his exterior so obviously alien.

363
00:15:51.779 --> 00:15:53.759
It's not another Lee Sen Chang situation.

364
00:15:53.820 --> 00:15:57.299
I was just thinking, have we come this far down because that ain't

365
00:15:57.299 --> 00:15:58.200
Magnus Greal anymore?

366
00:15:58.259 --> 00:15:59.279
No, no.

367
00:15:59.340 --> 00:16:01.139
I mean, you know, obviously he's an alien.

368
00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:04.559
For some reason, they've decided to make him the size Doria

369
00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:05.940
Maldova would be.

370
00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:09.059
And I'm not entirely sure why they've done that.

371
00:16:09.179 --> 00:16:12.840
Not that they necessarily need a reason, but earlier this season

372
00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:16.080
we've already had Stratford Johns. you know, so he begins to look

373
00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:16.740
a bit.

374
00:16:16.799 --> 00:16:18.600
There's just not quite the visual variety.

375
00:16:18.659 --> 00:16:21.360
I quite like his inner sanctum set.

376
00:16:22.379 --> 00:16:24.899
I like the interior sets are good.

377
00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:27.840
And they're nicely designed and the colorations and just the

378
00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:30.840
diagonals of them, the sloping seats, a little bit of Ken Adam. you

379
00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:31.080
notice?

380
00:16:31.139 --> 00:16:32.340
Every wall's at an angle.

381
00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:34.860
Yeah, Nathan's not smiling, don't listen.

382
00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:39.059
I don't like the inside the sanctum thing and I don't like the...

383
00:16:39.059 --> 00:16:42.179
What a great episode title that would have been inside the sanctum

384
00:16:42.179 --> 00:16:43.500
episode two.

385
00:16:43.559 --> 00:16:44.759
What could possibly go wrong?

386
00:16:46.019 --> 00:16:50.639
Matthew Warthouse was, according to the rest of the cast, very

387
00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:53.700
unhappy about having to make the cameo.

388
00:16:53.820 --> 00:16:54.419
Oh, really?

389
00:16:54.419 --> 00:16:58.320
And if you look at on the DVD, there is behind the scenes footage

390
00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:01.799
and he does seem, he does seem a little bit unhappy.

391
00:17:01.860 --> 00:17:05.579
But personally, I don't think that's, oh, you know, they've killed

392
00:17:05.579 --> 00:17:07.680
me off last week and they've asked me to come back because if he

393
00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:09.180
really didn't want to be there.

394
00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:12.119
He wasn't, he had to be issued a separate contract for that

395
00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:13.920
episode and could have easily said no.

396
00:17:13.980 --> 00:17:18.359
But I think it's probably more that if you look at that, he's got

397
00:17:18.359 --> 00:17:21.359
like 2 lines and he has to say them about 10 times and he's just

398
00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:24.059
being told, oh, could you give it a bit more this and there's just

399
00:17:24.059 --> 00:17:27.299
his look at his face of, how many ways could I say, if you come

400
00:17:27.299 --> 00:17:28.799
any closer, you'll kill me.

401
00:17:28.859 --> 00:17:30.299
Okay, fine.

402
00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:32.099
Chatter than missing.

403
00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:32.880
Dashed.

404
00:17:34.980 --> 00:17:36.720
It would be great.

405
00:17:36.779 --> 00:17:39.180
He could say, I want you to sound bored now, man.

406
00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:42.000
I want you to give it a come hither, sort of speed.

407
00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:45.059
Can you do it like Richard Todd?

408
00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:47.880
If you do it with the camera here, Matthew, like Richard Todd, do

409
00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:48.839
the camera here.

410
00:17:48.900 --> 00:17:50.700
Yes, all right. how to act.

411
00:17:51.599 --> 00:17:54.299
I bet they had fun that day.

412
00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:58.680
In the in the Earthshot commentary, Janet Fielding talks about all

413
00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:02.400
of her nicknames for Matthew during the shooting and he was like

414
00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:06.000
called Matt Finish and Boom Boom Waterhouse and stuff.

415
00:18:06.059 --> 00:18:09.779
So they were teasing him just like he complains about in episode

416
00:18:09.779 --> 00:18:10.200
one.

417
00:18:10.319 --> 00:18:13.259
There's something I forgot to measure last week that there's a

418
00:18:13.259 --> 00:18:14.640
great moment on that commentary.

419
00:18:14.700 --> 00:18:17.039
You know, they've all gone quiet during the death scene.

420
00:18:17.099 --> 00:18:17.880
This is for earth shock.

421
00:18:17.940 --> 00:18:19.619
They gone quiet, the ship's about to blow up.

422
00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:21.900
And when NISA screams out, Patrick!

423
00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:24.480
Janet Fielding says, you can't hear you, love.

424
00:18:27.539 --> 00:18:31.319
And at that point, they all kind of flood in and start, including

425
00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:33.420
Matthew start making comments, but they've all kind of been

426
00:18:33.420 --> 00:18:35.819
hanging back because, oh, no, we should be very quiet for this

427
00:18:35.819 --> 00:18:36.119
bit.

428
00:18:36.180 --> 00:18:37.500
Janet's just like, nah.

429
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:41.640
They are the best commentaries with these terrible run of

430
00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:42.000
stories.

431
00:18:42.059 --> 00:18:43.619
The commentaries are just terrific.

432
00:18:43.680 --> 00:18:47.339
I think the only story Davison doesn't give a commentary on is the

433
00:18:47.339 --> 00:18:47.880
Awakening.

434
00:18:47.940 --> 00:18:51.720
You know, he's, of the doctors, he's the, he and Colin are the

435
00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:53.819
most prolific on their own commentaries.

436
00:18:53.940 --> 00:18:55.619
Also most alive.

437
00:18:55.920 --> 00:18:59.640
Yeah, it was pretty hard to get Billy back in for the Aztec

438
00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:00.960
special edition, wasn't it?

439
00:19:01.019 --> 00:19:02.279
Without a Ouija board.

440
00:19:02.339 --> 00:19:03.900
And I don't know if you heard this.

441
00:19:05.099 --> 00:19:08.039
Richard Handel just wasn't up for it, so yeah.

442
00:19:08.099 --> 00:19:11.940
I don't know if you've heard this, but Sylvester McCoy couldn't do

443
00:19:11.940 --> 00:19:13.740
all his commentaries because he was making some little film called

444
00:19:13.740 --> 00:19:14.279
The Hobbit.

445
00:19:14.339 --> 00:19:14.759
Did you hear about that?

446
00:19:14.819 --> 00:19:15.839
He might have mentioned it.

447
00:19:15.900 --> 00:19:17.039
Yeah, once or Schwarz.

448
00:19:17.099 --> 00:19:19.859
And again, we're avoiding talking about the story at hand.

449
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:20.700
Nigel Stock.

450
00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:22.019
Oh, hooray.

451
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:23.700
The other number six.

452
00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:25.500
That's right Is he Professor Hayter?

453
00:19:25.559 --> 00:19:27.180
Yeah, there's always one, isn't there?

454
00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:28.619
Yeah, for haters.

455
00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:32.640
Well, I love how his professor hater and he's a complete

456
00:19:32.640 --> 00:19:34.980
scientific sceptic.

457
00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:37.019
And an 11th doctor fanboy.

458
00:19:37.079 --> 00:19:38.400
Yes, he's straight.

459
00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:41.819
Where is his entire fan read cosplay?

460
00:19:42.059 --> 00:19:44.220
I am your future.

461
00:19:44.279 --> 00:19:47.819
It's stupid Why does he sacrifice himself?

462
00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:51.359
And then zombie hater comes in and it's all a sort of profound

463
00:19:51.359 --> 00:19:52.200
scary mystery.

464
00:19:52.259 --> 00:19:55.500
See, I, the thing is, I think that's a little bit of bit me

465
00:19:55.500 --> 00:19:57.539
lingering because that's the kind of thing bit me would do.

466
00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:00.180
And certainly, Professor Hayter, all the way through the story, is

467
00:20:00.180 --> 00:20:03.900
a scientific man searching for facts he can latch onto and he's

468
00:20:03.900 --> 00:20:06.059
offered every single fact in the universe.

469
00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:08.519
It's a beautiful and terrifying moment.

470
00:20:08.579 --> 00:20:10.980
This is a really weird Doctor Who story.

471
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:13.920
In the episode three, in my opinion, is actually the best one that

472
00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:17.940
has the best character moments and actually moves the prolong and

473
00:20:17.940 --> 00:20:18.660
the best concepts.

474
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:21.900
And it is still the doctor episode where the doctor spends an

475
00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:22.799
episode locked in a room.

476
00:20:23.579 --> 00:20:27.720
And that scene where Professor Hayter kind of melts is kind of

477
00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:28.500
horrible as well.

478
00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:33.359
And when Khalid melts, it's definitely a 2 Kleenex box scene, isn't

479
00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:34.799
it, as they used to say in Hollywood.

480
00:20:34.859 --> 00:20:37.680
It's like gone with the wind, but for nasal cavities.

481
00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:38.759
They're awful.

482
00:20:38.819 --> 00:20:44.039
And you find out in the DVD, on the studio floor footage, it is

483
00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:47.460
actually Anthony Ainley under all that while they're pumping it.

484
00:20:47.460 --> 00:20:48.599
Really didn't like him.

485
00:20:48.660 --> 00:20:50.759
Because they couldn't afford a stuntman, I imagine.

486
00:20:50.819 --> 00:20:51.539
That's the thing.

487
00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:54.359
Like, when it's all gushing out, you can hear the floor manager

488
00:20:54.359 --> 00:20:57.480
saying, Anthony, you know, give it a few more wriggles, you're

489
00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:02.279
dying, you're dying. career is dying.

490
00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:06.599
I can't remember who it was, but years ago, when I used to go on

491
00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:10.799
Girlfrow Base or Outpost Galifray, or we'll ban you if you put up

492
00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:12.420
the wrong kind of link, whatever they call it.

493
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:16.079
Now There was someone who said that he went to watch one of the

494
00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:19.140
rehearsal sessions for time flight, because when they were doing

495
00:21:19.140 --> 00:21:22.380
the camera rehearsals at the BBC, the gallery was actually open

496
00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:26.339
and you could go in and watch things being filmed during JNZ's

497
00:21:26.339 --> 00:21:29.339
tenure, they only closed it during Earth Shock, I believe, because

498
00:21:29.339 --> 00:21:30.839
he wanted to maintain all the surprises.

499
00:21:30.900 --> 00:21:35.400
And whoever this person was, he was saying that Anthony Ainley

500
00:21:35.400 --> 00:21:38.579
after he gets the Khalid makeup of, initially was giving a very

501
00:21:38.579 --> 00:21:40.559
subtle, very menacing performance.

502
00:21:40.619 --> 00:21:44.279
It was coming down from JNT via Ron Jones.

503
00:21:44.339 --> 00:21:47.519
No, no, no, no, bigger, bigger, bigger, bigger.

504
00:21:47.579 --> 00:21:48.480
Not stupid enough, Tony.

505
00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:49.680
Yeah, not stupid enough.

506
00:21:49.740 --> 00:21:53.519
And apparently like Anthony Anley would just kind of sigh and get

507
00:21:53.519 --> 00:21:55.920
on with it because, you know, it's what the director wants.

508
00:21:55.980 --> 00:21:58.799
But yeah, you know, we give him so much flack, but it looks like

509
00:21:58.799 --> 00:22:02.160
he actually wanted to play the character a little more sensitively

510
00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:05.279
which I think he eventually gets to do in about 7 years.

511
00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:09.779
It's weird because, you know, Khalid's ridiculous and over the top

512
00:22:09.779 --> 00:22:13.200
but I really like Leon Noite as Khalid.

513
00:22:13.259 --> 00:22:14.339
I think he's really entertaining.

514
00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:17.700
I think at the time too is the best, most colourful character in

515
00:22:17.700 --> 00:22:18.180
the story.

516
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:20.220
You know, just moved around more.

517
00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:25.380
It's feeling a bit, it's crossways of other shows, whereas Doctor

518
00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:28.920
Who, this season, managed to be looking forward to trends, like

519
00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:31.259
the Avengers used to and predicting what was going to come in the

520
00:22:31.259 --> 00:22:31.799
next decade.

521
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:34.559
This one's actually doing a whole lot of 70s and unfortunately

522
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:35.819
American shows.

523
00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:37.619
It's a bit fantastic voyage.

524
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:41.880
It's a bit, oh, gosh, even 60s films.

525
00:22:41.940 --> 00:22:45.180
Like, let's get into a submarine and get injected into somebody's

526
00:22:45.180 --> 00:22:45.539
veins.

527
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:46.980
Are we going to do that in Doctor Who as well?

528
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:47.460
aren't we?

529
00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:47.759
You know?

530
00:22:47.819 --> 00:22:51.539
But there's, again, the high concept of American stuff that you

531
00:22:51.539 --> 00:22:55.019
really need a big budget to do because most of this is meant to be

532
00:22:55.019 --> 00:22:55.500
driven.

533
00:22:55.559 --> 00:22:58.019
Like this plot is not an action plot.

534
00:22:58.079 --> 00:22:58.980
It's a visual spectacle.

535
00:22:59.339 --> 00:23:01.799
Maybe it works great on radio.

536
00:23:01.859 --> 00:23:04.079
What's it like as a novel let?

537
00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:05.220
Has anyone read it?

538
00:23:05.339 --> 00:23:08.339
I've not read the novel, but I can't imagine that it would be very

539
00:23:08.339 --> 00:23:08.579
good.

540
00:23:08.579 --> 00:23:09.900
It's very light.

541
00:23:09.960 --> 00:23:11.279
I remember that.

542
00:23:11.339 --> 00:23:12.960
I read it.

543
00:23:13.019 --> 00:23:14.339
I have no memory of it at all.

544
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:16.559
Does Grimwade himself write it?

545
00:23:16.619 --> 00:23:17.700
Grimway does write it.

546
00:23:17.819 --> 00:23:21.779
Simtra Recall, he was interviewed years later and he sort of said

547
00:23:21.779 --> 00:23:25.980
for that, I think it was the 1st target novel he wrote and he kind

548
00:23:25.980 --> 00:23:28.440
of said, oh, you know, I just put the shooting script on paper.

549
00:23:28.500 --> 00:23:31.619
It wasn't until I came to do like Planet of Fire and later stuff

550
00:23:31.619 --> 00:23:33.779
that I realised, I'm allowed to embellish things.

551
00:23:33.900 --> 00:23:37.019
Even...

552
00:23:37.019 --> 00:23:37.740
Page 65.

553
00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:39.839
Chuckodemus went when the walls fell.

554
00:23:39.900 --> 00:23:40.559
Yes.

555
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:43.500
Because he does say at one point, I will summon Chuckodemus

556
00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:44.099
supplier.

557
00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:50.339
It's terribly exciting for the inner fan person what I am to see

558
00:23:50.339 --> 00:23:54.660
up than fuselage of a Concorde, so to speak, get right inside the

559
00:23:54.660 --> 00:23:58.559
elementary canal and just sort of how bloody tiny it really was.

560
00:23:58.619 --> 00:24:03.000
And just how unattractive the passenger lists were in those days.

561
00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:08.279
The biggest plot hole for me is that an academic can actually

562
00:24:08.279 --> 00:24:11.880
afford to fly Concord in 1981, 82.

563
00:24:12.059 --> 00:24:14.759
He was obviously being employed by Big Farmer, and it's just as

564
00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:18.299
well he got sucked back, Professor Hayter, and turned into a bit

565
00:24:18.299 --> 00:24:20.940
of loft insulation or whatever he ended up because he was

566
00:24:20.940 --> 00:24:24.299
obviously preparing drugs that would no doubt destroy our

567
00:24:24.299 --> 00:24:25.019
civilisation.

568
00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:28.740
Can I share a few words about the unsung hero of this story?

569
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:30.180
Me?

570
00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:31.140
Is it?

571
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:32.759
Angela Clifford.

572
00:24:32.819 --> 00:24:34.619
Oh, she's fabulous.

573
00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:36.720
Also the announced tricks, isn't she?

574
00:24:36.779 --> 00:24:38.039
Yes, I think so.

575
00:24:38.099 --> 00:24:39.960
But she is lovely in this.

576
00:24:40.019 --> 00:24:42.539
Well, she's a moment of genuineness.

577
00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:44.099
Jenna, are you watching?

578
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:45.720
That's what an air stewardess is like.

579
00:24:45.779 --> 00:24:48.359
She's not an idiot and she's not incredibly irritating.

580
00:24:48.420 --> 00:24:50.160
She actually just a normal person doing a job.

581
00:24:50.220 --> 00:24:52.440
Yeah, I think sorry.

582
00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:57.660
The captain wants us to try that new Indonesian restaurant is

583
00:24:57.660 --> 00:24:58.140
found.

584
00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:02.880
Oh, no, it really does segue to Surbanon, doesn't it?

585
00:25:02.940 --> 00:25:06.059
They're all off next door to Margot and Jerry Ledbeders.

586
00:25:06.180 --> 00:25:09.059
She does kind of disappear though.

587
00:25:09.180 --> 00:25:10.500
Angela Clifford.

588
00:25:10.559 --> 00:25:13.140
Like, you know, she goes into the master's TARDIS, but you never

589
00:25:13.140 --> 00:25:14.039
see her cub out.

590
00:25:14.099 --> 00:25:15.240
That's true.

591
00:25:15.359 --> 00:25:18.119
You see the other ones, but of course, she's a girl person.

592
00:25:18.180 --> 00:25:20.039
They don't need to bother getting her back on set.

593
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:22.079
Well, I don't know, maybe she wasn't available for that studio

594
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:24.960
session or whatever, but you see her dragging the TARDAS across

595
00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:28.859
the tundra, the gigantic tundra that we've got.

596
00:25:28.980 --> 00:25:31.859
I mean, the thing is, like, that scene where all the passengers

597
00:25:31.859 --> 00:25:34.740
are dragging the TARTAS across in that huge wide shot.

598
00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:40.019
It feels like the scene with the Trojan rabbit in Monty Python and

599
00:25:40.019 --> 00:25:40.680
the Holy Grail.

600
00:25:40.740 --> 00:25:41.880
God, it is too.

601
00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:43.440
Do you think they were all marginal?

602
00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:48.839
Oh, she is the announcer, though, in the episode four, I think

603
00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:50.700
against... she's there.

604
00:25:50.759 --> 00:25:51.900
She's paid for the 4 episodes.

605
00:25:52.019 --> 00:25:54.480
Yeah, I don't know. don't know.

606
00:25:54.539 --> 00:25:57.599
Just seems to be a lot of walking around, going in and out of

607
00:25:57.599 --> 00:26:00.480
TARDIS is carrying things, waving your arms around.

608
00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:05.579
I mean, there's a lot of early 80s G-rated Tom of Finland desk

609
00:26:05.579 --> 00:26:08.700
calendar air crew stuff going on too, aren't there?

610
00:26:08.759 --> 00:26:12.119
There's a lot of blow drying and mustaching going on with...

611
00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:14.940
Well, you say it with some convincing flirting with Janet

612
00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:15.480
Feldick.

613
00:26:15.539 --> 00:26:16.200
So there you go.

614
00:26:16.259 --> 00:26:21.359
Built-in doesn't actually flirt with Tegan, but Stapley brings

615
00:26:21.359 --> 00:26:25.980
built-in out of his hypnotism by saying, do you remember Tegan?

616
00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:30.240
And, you know, Builtin says, yes, of course, we cut away before he

617
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:33.480
says, yes, this is why I quit women.

618
00:26:38.099 --> 00:26:39.960
Because, of course, it doesn't work that way.

619
00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:44.279
Take one step closer towards me, Janet.

620
00:26:44.339 --> 00:26:45.240
Oh, die.

621
00:26:45.299 --> 00:26:46.019
We're going.

622
00:26:46.740 --> 00:26:51.059
I must say, I love I love Stapley and built-in attempting to fly

623
00:26:51.059 --> 00:26:51.900
the Tartars.

624
00:26:51.960 --> 00:26:52.440
Yeah.

625
00:26:52.500 --> 00:26:53.700
Oh, it is really good.

626
00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:54.839
It can't be that big red one.

627
00:26:55.980 --> 00:26:57.960
They are a great team.

628
00:26:58.019 --> 00:27:03.299
They should be the Jago and Lightfoot spinoff of the 80s, shouldn't

629
00:27:03.299 --> 00:27:03.480
they?

630
00:27:03.539 --> 00:27:04.980
And you know what?

631
00:27:05.099 --> 00:27:07.799
The master's stuff with them, the master's stuff with the flight

632
00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:10.140
crew is so much better than his stuff with Davidson.

633
00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:14.880
I mean, given, and I think it was Robert Sherman wrote this in an

634
00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:19.200
issue of time space visualiser, Doctor Who Story should have some

635
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:25.259
big showdown at the end, and here we get the doctor and the master

636
00:27:25.259 --> 00:27:28.680
slightly reluctant to hand 2 science projects to watch.

637
00:27:28.740 --> 00:27:29.640
It's so true.

638
00:27:29.700 --> 00:27:32.039
It's my mini Aurak.

639
00:27:32.220 --> 00:27:35.819
Well, further off on the tundra, we're draining sort of brake

640
00:27:35.819 --> 00:27:39.420
fluid from, you know, one Concord and putting it in another one.

641
00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:43.079
The commentary track is terrific.

642
00:27:43.140 --> 00:27:45.420
Ooh, it looks like lime cordial says China.

643
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:47.220
No, it's terribly corrosive. the real thing.

644
00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:48.359
Brake fluid is green, is it?

645
00:27:48.420 --> 00:27:49.380
Yes, it's a lubricant.

646
00:27:49.500 --> 00:27:53.039
Eric Saywood is similating all of that in.

647
00:27:53.220 --> 00:27:59.220
So what is on the audio cast of these once when he's sitting there

648
00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:05.339
with Pete and Janet and Sarah is surprisingly diffident and

649
00:28:05.339 --> 00:28:06.119
mellow.

650
00:28:06.180 --> 00:28:10.680
And look, I just always expected, say, to have a big blustery

651
00:28:10.680 --> 00:28:14.519
blessed slash Brian kind of sound to him, because I just imagine

652
00:28:14.519 --> 00:28:16.200
that's what he was like as a script editor.

653
00:28:16.259 --> 00:28:22.019
But he's almost quietly, you know, he's almost Marple-esque in the

654
00:28:22.019 --> 00:28:22.319
background.

655
00:28:22.380 --> 00:28:24.839
He just sitting there quietly knitting while the others take the

656
00:28:24.839 --> 00:28:25.319
pierce.

657
00:28:25.380 --> 00:28:28.859
Do you think that's just many years of mellowing in hindsight or

658
00:28:28.859 --> 00:28:30.720
the fact that I've outlived almost everyone?

659
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:35.579
I think it's a little bit of mellowing, but also that sort of

660
00:28:35.579 --> 00:28:38.819
spokenness kind of hides the things he does say sometimes.

661
00:28:38.819 --> 00:28:43.380
Because especially in the documentaries, he quite often when he's

662
00:28:43.380 --> 00:28:47.700
talking about the story, the phrase, I told John this didn't work

663
00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:48.960
but he insisted.

664
00:28:49.019 --> 00:28:50.279
Is there a lot?

665
00:28:50.339 --> 00:28:53.579
It's kind of like Bid Me didn't seem to have this problem.

666
00:28:53.640 --> 00:28:56.220
Andrew Cartmel didn't seem to have this problem.

667
00:28:56.279 --> 00:29:01.559
Both of them did comment that John would like ideas that needed a

668
00:29:01.559 --> 00:29:05.579
lot of work, but it seems like Eric Saywood is was a lot more

669
00:29:05.579 --> 00:29:08.039
ready to just put his hands up and say, whatever.

670
00:29:08.099 --> 00:29:13.079
And I can't even put that down to his age because he was, I think

671
00:29:13.079 --> 00:29:13.799
in his 30s.

672
00:29:13.859 --> 00:29:16.440
But Andrew Cartmel was in his 20s, you know.

673
00:29:16.500 --> 00:29:19.859
And John Nathan Turner's instincts aren't always wrong.

674
00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:23.700
You know, Sabard always presents it as, say, was knew what's right

675
00:29:23.700 --> 00:29:26.460
for the program and that Nathan Turner had stupid ideas.

676
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:29.400
You know, he carved Bonnie Langford and his Beryl Reed for

677
00:29:29.400 --> 00:29:30.119
Earthshock.

678
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:33.180
But, you know, those 2 casting decisions aren't so bad.

679
00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:38.039
And certainly the program was better before, say, would became

680
00:29:38.039 --> 00:29:40.079
script editor and after he left.

681
00:29:40.140 --> 00:29:44.819
Yeah, I think both John Nathan Turner and Eric Say would make good

682
00:29:44.819 --> 00:29:46.019
decisions and bad ones.

683
00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:51.180
And I think both don't really own up to their own responsibility

684
00:29:51.180 --> 00:29:52.079
as much as they should.

685
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:55.200
I mean, obviously John is no longer with us and can't, but

686
00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:59.640
certainly the interviews I saw with him when he was still alive, he

687
00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:03.900
doesn't seem to acknowledge some of the decisions he made, but

688
00:30:03.900 --> 00:30:08.400
Eric Say would vehemently denies there's anything wrong with his

689
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:09.119
decisions.

690
00:30:09.180 --> 00:30:11.339
You know, it's a very odd relationship.

691
00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:14.819
I don't recall seeing Peter Grimway talk that much about his

692
00:30:14.819 --> 00:30:15.420
writing.

693
00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:17.579
It's mostly about his directing because he's an excellent

694
00:30:17.579 --> 00:30:17.940
director.

695
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:22.500
I think he's, I think he's a good writer, but I think this story

696
00:30:22.500 --> 00:30:25.980
suffers from having been on the planning board for 3 years

697
00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:31.079
terrible fanfic where nothing very interesting happens and there's

698
00:30:31.079 --> 00:30:33.660
a lot of people standing around saying stupid things.

699
00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:41.460
I'm not going to mention this podcast But, you know, the sexy.

700
00:30:42.059 --> 00:30:47.819
The central conceit of the Gestolt entity and the master trying to

701
00:30:47.819 --> 00:30:50.039
take them over and some of them agreeing with the master and some

702
00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:50.759
of them disagree.

703
00:30:50.819 --> 00:30:52.140
That's a fascinating idea.

704
00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:53.640
No, no it isn't.

705
00:30:54.420 --> 00:30:56.819
And there's our title.

706
00:30:57.539 --> 00:30:59.160
No, go on.

707
00:30:59.220 --> 00:30:59.519
Sorry.

708
00:30:59.579 --> 00:31:01.319
No, no, I think that is a fascinating idea.

709
00:31:01.380 --> 00:31:03.779
I just, it's not given enough airtime and it's not given enough

710
00:31:03.779 --> 00:31:04.319
care.

711
00:31:04.380 --> 00:31:07.619
You know, we only see 2 of these people and, you know, one of them

712
00:31:07.619 --> 00:31:11.099
is, I am totally 4 and I am totally against.

713
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:12.119
I'm with you.

714
00:31:12.180 --> 00:31:15.420
A bit of Socratic dialogue is fine, but actually develop it in the

715
00:31:15.420 --> 00:31:18.000
way that Plato would have done it, that we really need some

716
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:20.099
development, some character development here.

717
00:31:20.220 --> 00:31:21.359
Professor Hayter.

718
00:31:21.420 --> 00:31:22.859
Nigel Stock's a pretty good actor.

719
00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:27.180
He's pretty prestigious and he's been in some very big stuff, but

720
00:31:27.180 --> 00:31:29.579
here it's just a big stuffing, isn't it?

721
00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:33.180
You know, what if, at the end of episode three, we discover that

722
00:31:33.180 --> 00:31:37.019
all this time we've actually been inside the sarcophagus and

723
00:31:37.019 --> 00:31:39.119
everyone we've meta elements of this gestolt.

724
00:31:39.180 --> 00:31:42.240
Much more interesting, you know, as they dissolve into fairy

725
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:43.740
liquid soap suds, yes.

726
00:31:43.799 --> 00:31:46.680
It wouldn't have changed the budget because everyone would have

727
00:31:46.680 --> 00:31:47.460
just looked human.

728
00:31:47.519 --> 00:31:52.380
You would have had a reason to give all the characters.

729
00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:56.400
They would have had to take some side in the argument. you know

730
00:31:56.400 --> 00:31:59.460
and it would have given the doctor something to figure out rather

731
00:31:59.460 --> 00:32:03.180
than just the end of episode 3 with, oh, the master has teleported

732
00:32:03.180 --> 00:32:04.259
a thing out of a room.

733
00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:06.359
It looks like he's finally defeated me.

734
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:10.619
There's some really serious word peril of that cliffhanger.

735
00:32:10.619 --> 00:32:11.460
There is.

736
00:32:11.460 --> 00:32:18.000
You see, I've voted best of the season by the Doctor Who

737
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:19.200
appreciation society.

738
00:32:19.259 --> 00:32:20.400
Did they like it more than Earth?

739
00:32:20.460 --> 00:32:21.660
The time they liked it more than anything.

740
00:32:21.720 --> 00:32:23.400
They liked Earthstock's 2nd bestest.

741
00:32:23.460 --> 00:32:25.380
Yeah, I think Kinder was like four.

742
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:26.640
Oh, no, they hated Kinder.

743
00:32:26.700 --> 00:32:29.880
I think possibly achieved that poll.

744
00:32:29.940 --> 00:32:32.039
Maybe because it was the most recent story.

745
00:32:32.099 --> 00:32:36.299
Like when you consider the Dwim 50 years poll from a few years ago

746
00:32:36.299 --> 00:32:37.559
day of the doctor comes out on top.

747
00:32:37.619 --> 00:32:40.200
Now, I'm not saying Day of the Doctor is as deficient in quality

748
00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:42.779
as this story anywhere near.

749
00:32:42.839 --> 00:32:44.220
It is still an excellent piece.

750
00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:48.299
But it comes out number one, and I think part of it is the newness

751
00:32:48.299 --> 00:32:48.660
of it.

752
00:32:48.779 --> 00:32:50.099
That always happens.

753
00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:54.420
Because we've been teasing Todd, who gives the story a -one out of

754
00:32:54.420 --> 00:32:54.539
10.

755
00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:57.119
We've been teasing him all week that I love this story.

756
00:32:57.180 --> 00:33:01.920
And it's another story that I enjoy watching for what it attempts

757
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:02.759
to do.

758
00:33:02.819 --> 00:33:09.900
And the main reason it fails so dismally is because they just

759
00:33:09.900 --> 00:33:10.859
haven't taken care of it.

760
00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:14.759
They've kind of gone, like Andrew Morgan pulled out at the last

761
00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:17.759
minute because he didn't let the scripts and they had to get Ron

762
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:21.359
Jones in who was still very new to directing at this point, they

763
00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:24.240
obviously don't have much money left because they've spent it all

764
00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:24.599
on.

765
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:27.359
They finished shooting a week before transmission.

766
00:33:27.420 --> 00:33:28.859
Yeah, really?

767
00:33:28.920 --> 00:33:30.420
Yeah, that was that close.

768
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:36.180
It's so bizarre considering that season 18, they took such good

769
00:33:36.180 --> 00:33:36.960
care with money.

770
00:33:37.019 --> 00:33:39.059
Yes, they do, didn't they?

771
00:33:39.059 --> 00:33:39.599
So every...

772
00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:41.759
JNT's experienced with holding the shekels.

773
00:33:41.819 --> 00:33:42.960
Yeah, yeah, so to speak.

774
00:33:43.019 --> 00:33:46.619
And JNT had been there throughout the Williams era, seeing what

775
00:33:46.619 --> 00:33:49.019
happens when you don't leave enough money for your finale.

776
00:33:49.140 --> 00:33:52.200
And then we get this.

777
00:33:52.259 --> 00:33:57.000
And the thing is, we've already had canine and company, which, you

778
00:33:57.000 --> 00:33:59.759
know, would have needed to design and set construction, but didn't

779
00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:01.440
need specialist stuff like this.

780
00:34:01.500 --> 00:34:03.839
A lot of it was shot on location.

781
00:34:03.900 --> 00:34:05.940
It was budgeted out of 2 episodes.

782
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:10.619
Black Orchid, you know, that's BBC period drama, the visitation

783
00:34:10.619 --> 00:34:11.760
was a period drama.

784
00:34:11.820 --> 00:34:16.320
So that leaves you with Castra Valver, 4 to Doomsday, Kinder, and

785
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:18.420
Earthshock, as your big spenders of the season.

786
00:34:18.480 --> 00:34:22.500
You'd think there should be some way that this story could have

787
00:34:22.500 --> 00:34:24.360
had more care and money spending.

788
00:34:24.420 --> 00:34:25.800
Bassie intro maybe?

789
00:34:25.860 --> 00:34:29.159
Big spender as an ironic reference.

790
00:34:29.219 --> 00:34:32.639
I was at party last week where someone sucked the helium out of a

791
00:34:32.639 --> 00:34:34.199
balloon and sang Moonraaker.

792
00:34:35.159 --> 00:34:38.039
Who hasn't done that at a party, honestly?

793
00:34:38.519 --> 00:34:41.460
I don't think money's the only problem, I think.

794
00:34:41.460 --> 00:34:44.699
This is a poorly written script where the dialogue is just

795
00:34:44.699 --> 00:34:45.719
unspeakable.

796
00:34:45.780 --> 00:34:49.019
And that argument between the Zeraphims is so stupid.

797
00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:53.280
It is exactly what people think crummy science fiction sounds

798
00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:53.579
like.

799
00:34:53.639 --> 00:34:55.800
No one talks normally.

800
00:34:55.860 --> 00:34:59.940
This is a another feature of the script that ending of say word.

801
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:01.800
You know, everyone, they must think us fools.

802
00:35:01.860 --> 00:35:03.599
You know, whoever says stuff like that.

803
00:35:03.659 --> 00:35:04.739
That's ridiculous.

804
00:35:04.800 --> 00:35:07.559
It's like he's never actually had a conversation with another

805
00:35:07.559 --> 00:35:10.260
human being and listen to, you know, how people talk.

806
00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:14.159
Is that harsh?

807
00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:15.480
Am I being harsh?

808
00:35:15.900 --> 00:35:18.480
Maybe it was radiation sickness.

809
00:35:18.539 --> 00:35:20.940
Maybe that's talking a bit queasy after the long trip.

810
00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:26.940
It really is a return to the dreary season closes of season 15 and

811
00:35:26.940 --> 00:35:31.320
season 16, but it doesn't even have the wit and warmth, that

812
00:35:31.320 --> 00:35:35.039
invasion of time, and arguably bits of the Armageddon factor had.

813
00:35:35.099 --> 00:35:38.519
Indeed, or going back, because we were saying, I found Time

814
00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:42.119
Monster, whether deliberately or not, laughable and I really

815
00:35:42.119 --> 00:35:42.840
enjoyed it.

816
00:35:42.900 --> 00:35:44.579
I laughed all through time.

817
00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:45.480
I think it's entertaining.

818
00:35:45.539 --> 00:35:46.860
And it is meant to be a comedy.

819
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:49.380
Maybe we're just not getting many jokes in this.

820
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:52.500
Do you get the feeling that GNT was sort of saying, you know, we've

821
00:35:52.500 --> 00:35:55.380
got to pitch this at a higher level and higher meant serious for

822
00:35:55.380 --> 00:35:55.920
some reason?

823
00:35:56.519 --> 00:35:58.380
Yeah, yeah.

824
00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:01.079
Whereas the most recent season of Doctor Who, I would argue.

825
00:36:01.139 --> 00:36:04.139
They're trying to pitch higher ideas and we had the bootstrap

826
00:36:04.139 --> 00:36:08.820
paradox and we had the moral discussion between the doctor and

827
00:36:08.820 --> 00:36:11.340
Davros, lady me, et cetera, et cetera.

828
00:36:11.400 --> 00:36:13.500
But they don't do it at expense of the humour.

829
00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:14.940
There's still humour in those.

830
00:36:15.059 --> 00:36:18.539
And they're not being written for the Doctor Who Monster book

831
00:36:18.539 --> 00:36:19.079
contingent.

832
00:36:19.139 --> 00:36:22.860
And I think that's the problem because fans hate funny.

833
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:26.280
They hate the gunfighters. you know, this is a proper serious

834
00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:29.340
science fiction program and so it needs to be full of people

835
00:36:29.340 --> 00:36:33.599
declaiming ludicrous technical terms and space terminology at each

836
00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:33.840
other.

837
00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:35.699
Yeah.

838
00:36:36.179 --> 00:36:38.340
There's one last thing.

839
00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:40.980
Tegan leaves.

840
00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:44.400
I was heartbroken when this happened as a kid.

841
00:36:44.460 --> 00:36:46.500
Take a drink to your listeners.

842
00:36:47.219 --> 00:36:52.260
I actually didn't tune in to Arc of Infinity episode one because I

843
00:36:52.260 --> 00:36:57.960
was so cross at Pete leaving Tegan behind because clearly she

844
00:36:57.960 --> 00:37:00.059
decides that she wants to stay.

845
00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:03.239
You know, they finally get her to Heathrow Airport.

846
00:37:03.420 --> 00:37:04.800
She's wandering through the airport.

847
00:37:04.860 --> 00:37:07.260
She's clearly thinking that she doesn't belong here and she wants

848
00:37:07.260 --> 00:37:08.039
to go with the doctor.

849
00:37:08.099 --> 00:37:12.179
She has been willingly travelling with the doctor since Black

850
00:37:12.179 --> 00:37:12.780
Orchid.

851
00:37:12.840 --> 00:37:16.199
You know, it's kind of funny that he accidentally turns up at

852
00:37:16.199 --> 00:37:19.559
Heathrow Airport when he's been trying to get her home there for

853
00:37:19.559 --> 00:37:20.519
weeks and weeks.

854
00:37:20.579 --> 00:37:25.139
It's a nice scene, you know, she has a bit of interiority, that

855
00:37:25.139 --> 00:37:28.019
sort of thing, and she's really crushed when he leaves her

856
00:37:28.019 --> 00:37:28.320
behind.

857
00:37:28.380 --> 00:37:33.000
After losing Andric last week and now he's lost Tegan, and I was

858
00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:34.199
that was it, I was out the door.

859
00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:35.760
Yeah, yeah.

860
00:37:35.820 --> 00:37:37.980
Janet plays it really well.

861
00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:43.619
You see, it's difficult because I have never seen Time Flight

862
00:37:43.619 --> 00:37:46.980
without the awareness that she's coming back next week, as it

863
00:37:46.980 --> 00:37:47.099
were.

864
00:37:47.219 --> 00:37:48.119
Yeah, yeah.

865
00:37:48.179 --> 00:37:49.440
No, you see, we didn't have.

866
00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:50.039
No, no.

867
00:37:50.099 --> 00:37:51.659
So you were genuinely convinced.

868
00:37:51.719 --> 00:37:53.639
I thought that was it, that she was gone on.

869
00:37:53.699 --> 00:37:54.480
Right, I did too.

870
00:37:54.539 --> 00:37:55.500
Oh, okay, wow.

871
00:37:55.559 --> 00:37:55.920
All right.

872
00:37:55.980 --> 00:37:56.639
Yeah.

873
00:37:56.639 --> 00:37:57.659
Okay.

874
00:37:57.719 --> 00:38:00.300
So, I mean, it serves its purpose in that way then.

875
00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:03.599
I also thought I was probably developing an unhealthy obsession

876
00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:07.380
with the program that might one day lead to participating in a

877
00:38:07.380 --> 00:38:10.860
multi-year podcast project of it.

878
00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:13.260
I really wanted to nip that in the bar.

879
00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:15.000
Yeah, it has been a very long time.

880
00:38:15.059 --> 00:38:17.039
That's just time flown.

881
00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:19.260
Sometimes it doesn't.

882
00:38:19.320 --> 00:38:22.500
What kind of sad person would you have to be to come up with this

883
00:38:22.500 --> 00:38:23.579
podcast idea?

884
00:38:23.639 --> 00:38:24.780
What even is that?

885
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:25.860
This is 1982.

886
00:38:26.039 --> 00:38:29.219
There's no podcast yet, and I haven't been born.

887
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:33.059
Oh, leave him behind.

888
00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:33.900
Close the door.

889
00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:38.940
The only one who looks happy in that final scene is Pete and

890
00:38:38.940 --> 00:38:39.480
Sarah.

891
00:38:39.539 --> 00:38:42.360
I think, woo, finally we can go off and do all those terrific big

892
00:38:42.360 --> 00:38:47.159
finish audios together in our whole season. kind of primeval.

893
00:38:47.219 --> 00:38:48.239
Actually, it's not a bad story.

894
00:38:48.300 --> 00:38:49.860
Spare parts.

895
00:38:49.980 --> 00:38:50.760
Circular time?

896
00:38:50.820 --> 00:38:52.019
There you go.

897
00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:53.579
So maybe Janet wasn't a bad thing.

898
00:38:53.639 --> 00:38:54.420
You enjoy yourself.

899
00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:59.280
Go and get yourself into a nice white bodicey courtesy type of air

900
00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:06.059
and get your air cut. maybe we'll see you next year So it's the

901
00:39:06.059 --> 00:39:09.179
end of the season, so it's time for our picks of the week and we

902
00:39:09.179 --> 00:39:13.199
were just talking a few seconds ago about the big finish audios

903
00:39:13.199 --> 00:39:17.820
because initially Janet Fielding opted not to come back for about

904
00:39:17.820 --> 00:39:20.579
the 1st 12 years of their production and but has now come back.

905
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:24.480
So a lot of the Peter Davidson stories were with Sarah Sutton is

906
00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:27.179
Nissa, and they greatly expanded her character, gave her a lot of

907
00:39:27.179 --> 00:39:27.840
great stuff to do.

908
00:39:27.900 --> 00:39:30.719
And there's all sorts of really good stories.

909
00:39:30.780 --> 00:39:35.519
But the one I'm going to recommend is creatures of beauty.

910
00:39:35.579 --> 00:39:37.980
Ooh, I was thinking circular time.

911
00:39:38.039 --> 00:39:38.519
This is interesting.

912
00:39:38.579 --> 00:39:41.039
Circular time is excellent as well.

913
00:39:41.099 --> 00:39:43.380
I mean, there's so many good ones, but I'm going to recommend

914
00:39:43.380 --> 00:39:47.699
Creatures of Beauty because it's a play that surprised me as to

915
00:39:47.699 --> 00:39:48.539
what it was about.

916
00:39:48.599 --> 00:39:54.119
It's told in a nonlinear fashion and it's about an environmental

917
00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:54.599
disaster.

918
00:39:54.659 --> 00:39:56.699
And that's really all I can say without spoiling it.

919
00:39:56.760 --> 00:40:01.199
But it's Peter Davidson and Sarah Sutton. as the doctor and

920
00:40:01.199 --> 00:40:01.739
Nissa.

921
00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:04.260
But it's one of big finishes early ones.

922
00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:08.639
It was released in 2003, which now means that for Australian

923
00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:11.099
listeners, you can buy it as a download for $3.

924
00:40:11.699 --> 00:40:12.539
Oh wow.

925
00:40:12.599 --> 00:40:15.239
It's a full 100 minute, four-part story.

926
00:40:15.300 --> 00:40:17.099
You can no longer get it on CD.

927
00:40:17.159 --> 00:40:18.300
You can only get it on download.

928
00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:20.639
So I suspect if it's 3 Australian dollars, it's probably 3

929
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:23.219
American dollars and 3 British pounds, because that's how they

930
00:40:23.219 --> 00:40:24.059
tend to do the pricing.

931
00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:25.199
But yeah, that's my recommendation.

932
00:40:25.260 --> 00:40:25.980
Creatures of beauty.

933
00:40:26.039 --> 00:40:27.179
That's fantastic.

934
00:40:27.239 --> 00:40:28.800
Well, I have two.

935
00:40:28.860 --> 00:40:34.920
We got tweeted during the week by Johnny Spandrel and he has a

936
00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:39.420
blog called Randomhooness.com and it's really, really terrifically

937
00:40:39.420 --> 00:40:39.780
funny.

938
00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:42.960
He just goes, he doesn't fly through in entirety, you know, the

939
00:40:42.960 --> 00:40:43.800
sort of linear way.

940
00:40:43.860 --> 00:40:45.239
He does it at random.

941
00:40:45.300 --> 00:40:46.380
He posts once a week.

942
00:40:46.440 --> 00:40:48.420
He's been doing it reliably for some time.

943
00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:50.460
It's really funny and really clever.

944
00:40:50.519 --> 00:40:55.019
I can really recommend it My other pick is for fans of non

945
00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:55.619
Euclidean geometry.

946
00:40:55.739 --> 00:40:57.059
There's always one.

947
00:40:57.119 --> 00:41:01.380
So Castro Valba was inspired by the works of MC Esher.

948
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:02.760
And there's a game.

949
00:41:02.820 --> 00:41:06.239
I think it may be available on Android, but I don't care.

950
00:41:06.300 --> 00:41:10.320
It's certainly available on the iPad, and it's called Monument

951
00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:13.920
Valley, and it's utterly beautiful, a puzzler game with all sorts

952
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:17.820
of weird sort of isometric geometry, and beautiful music and

953
00:41:17.820 --> 00:41:20.820
affecting visuals, and, you know, it's really fun.

954
00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:22.199
So I recommend that too.

955
00:41:22.739 --> 00:41:28.500
I was going to go the path of Brendan because that's often how we

956
00:41:28.500 --> 00:41:33.239
lay our tracks in these stories, but I would say if you want to

957
00:41:33.239 --> 00:41:38.099
see it as, you know, as I expected this season to be as a kid, Chin

958
00:41:38.099 --> 00:41:38.639
Chin.

959
00:41:38.699 --> 00:41:43.380
And also now I'd go back to reading the Edith Nesbitt or Enesbitt

960
00:41:43.380 --> 00:41:46.079
books, the most famous being the railway children, but there's

961
00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:50.099
also 5 children and it, the Phoenix and the Carpet, both starring

962
00:41:50.099 --> 00:41:52.920
Bond Girl and fan of the podcast, Gary Russell.

963
00:41:53.340 --> 00:41:56.940
And yeah, back in the day, but they're just really lovely books.

964
00:41:56.940 --> 00:41:59.880
And I get the feeling that there were several directions they were

965
00:41:59.880 --> 00:42:04.679
going to take Peter's era as the doctor and the costume and even

966
00:42:04.679 --> 00:42:06.780
the casting of the characters around him.

967
00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:09.119
And you get little flavours of it early on.

968
00:42:09.179 --> 00:42:11.699
You certainly get it in Castrovolver and Black Orchard.

969
00:42:11.699 --> 00:42:13.500
And actually, in all the in all the early stories.

970
00:42:13.559 --> 00:42:17.039
So yeah, I would go back and read anything of Venus, but I'd start

971
00:42:17.039 --> 00:42:18.960
with, and the would be goods is lovely.

972
00:42:19.019 --> 00:42:21.119
They are still around in print, they're certainly downloadable for

973
00:42:21.119 --> 00:42:21.420
nothing.

974
00:42:21.480 --> 00:42:25.019
But the sense of that Edwardian children's drama that's written

975
00:42:25.019 --> 00:42:30.719
for pretty much anyone, a young disposition, or anyone who

976
00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:34.079
believes that there is an eternal Indian summer out there

977
00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:36.360
somewhere, and that there is always hope, even when awful things

978
00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:38.340
happen around you, which is generally what our books are about.

979
00:42:38.820 --> 00:42:41.340
There was a sense of great hope.

980
00:42:41.400 --> 00:42:47.579
He was the Obama all the time, of heat, and much like the soon to

981
00:42:47.579 --> 00:42:50.400
be over presidential candidacy, the last, what, 8, 2 terms.

982
00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:57.900
Maybe what we get as delivered is not quite what was expected or

983
00:42:57.900 --> 00:42:58.500
hoped for.

984
00:43:00.000 --> 00:43:04.619
So Jenny Laird awards for puzzling creative choices.

985
00:43:05.940 --> 00:43:09.900
I've already referred to this episode, but it becomes an

986
00:43:09.900 --> 00:43:11.880
increasing problem over Pete's tenure.

987
00:43:11.940 --> 00:43:15.900
Each year of Pete's tenure.

988
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:20.460
The penultimate story is considered great and sublime and held up

989
00:43:20.460 --> 00:43:21.119
as an example.

990
00:43:21.179 --> 00:43:24.539
So earth shock enlightenment, the caves of Andrazani.

991
00:43:24.599 --> 00:43:29.340
And even if one doesn't appreciate them personally, one can

992
00:43:29.340 --> 00:43:32.159
usually look at them and go, look, you know, I don't enjoy this.

993
00:43:32.219 --> 00:43:35.579
Like, I've said before, I'm not a huge fan of K's of Andresani, but

994
00:43:35.579 --> 00:43:37.559
I'm able to look at it and go, this is an amazing piece of

995
00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:40.860
television and really well made, and I can see why people like

996
00:43:40.860 --> 00:43:41.039
it.

997
00:43:41.159 --> 00:43:45.960
And it's then followed by a season finale, which is at best

998
00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:49.019
lacklustre and at worst awful.

999
00:43:50.099 --> 00:43:52.019
Time flight.

1000
00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:53.820
The King's Demons.

1001
00:43:53.880 --> 00:43:55.380
The twin dilemma.

1002
00:43:55.679 --> 00:44:01.199
My puzzling creative choice is, why is this so horribly mismanaged

1003
00:44:01.199 --> 00:44:08.400
not just once, but for 3 years, and for at least 2 stories, dealing

1004
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:11.219
with the fallout of a death of a character, dealing with a fallout

1005
00:44:11.219 --> 00:44:13.079
of Adrick and dealing with the death of the 5th doctor.

1006
00:44:13.139 --> 00:44:21.719
Why are 2 of those so horribly handled and in, given to, in this

1007
00:44:21.719 --> 00:44:25.800
case, a new writer and a new director, and in the case of doing

1008
00:44:25.800 --> 00:44:29.940
dilemma, a brand new writer who, when we get there, we'll discuss

1009
00:44:29.940 --> 00:44:33.780
had horrible, horrible problems with his script, I just don't

1010
00:44:33.780 --> 00:44:37.980
understand that rationale, and, you know, the King's Demons, they

1011
00:44:37.980 --> 00:44:42.659
get bloody Terence Dudley back again for reasons completely beyond

1012
00:44:42.659 --> 00:44:43.079
me.

1013
00:44:43.139 --> 00:44:44.460
So that's the thing.

1014
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:46.739
I am not so much picking up a specific fault.

1015
00:44:46.860 --> 00:44:48.659
I'm saying why does this keep happening?

1016
00:44:49.139 --> 00:44:51.420
Is it Eric Saywood?

1017
00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:54.960
I want to blame Eric, so It's never just one thing.

1018
00:44:55.019 --> 00:45:00.000
No, I guess my puzzling creative choice is something that I talked

1019
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:03.119
about in the Castro Valver episode where I just don't think enough

1020
00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:07.260
thought is being given to who the doctor should be.

1021
00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:10.199
And he's introduced in such a kind of lacklustre away.

1022
00:45:10.260 --> 00:45:11.940
He spends so much time in a cupboard.

1023
00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:16.320
And I think they've decided that they're going to react against

1024
00:45:16.320 --> 00:45:20.699
Tom's doctor rather than building up an interesting character who

1025
00:45:20.699 --> 00:45:23.519
could have been sort of central to the show from the beginning.

1026
00:45:23.579 --> 00:45:25.139
And they're going keep doing this.

1027
00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:29.099
And so while Tom is compelling, they go for somewhere off the edge

1028
00:45:29.099 --> 00:45:32.820
of the screen with Pete, who isn't a bad actor, but the character

1029
00:45:32.820 --> 00:45:34.559
is just not that interesting.

1030
00:45:34.619 --> 00:45:38.159
Yeah, rather than defining a presence. they're defining an absence

1031
00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:40.139
Yeah, and I think you'll get it right.

1032
00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:43.860
I haven't looked ahead because, you know, Arc of Infinity

1033
00:45:43.860 --> 00:45:44.280
obviously.

1034
00:45:44.340 --> 00:45:50.579
But my memory is that he does a good job in season 21 and there

1035
00:45:50.579 --> 00:45:54.059
are glimpses of good moments, but he shouldn't just be left to

1036
00:45:54.059 --> 00:45:56.460
define the character through his performance.

1037
00:45:56.519 --> 00:46:01.320
Some thought needed to be given to why we care about this man and

1038
00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:05.579
his collection of bit players from previous stories that seem to

1039
00:46:05.579 --> 00:46:07.679
have been assembled more or less at random.

1040
00:46:07.739 --> 00:46:09.960
We just watching the show out of habit now.

1041
00:46:10.440 --> 00:46:11.880
Exactly.

1042
00:46:11.940 --> 00:46:15.539
My puzzle and creative choice is almost along the same lines, and

1043
00:46:15.539 --> 00:46:18.719
I'm just asking, why do we not have a script header to appointed

1044
00:46:18.719 --> 00:46:22.920
who actually likes stories other than his own, or has something to

1045
00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:26.639
say, or has some generosity or some sense of play or fun?

1046
00:46:26.699 --> 00:46:28.559
Even bid meat had his own sense of fun.

1047
00:46:28.619 --> 00:46:30.119
It was just science-y.

1048
00:46:30.179 --> 00:46:31.980
But, you know, he was passionate.

1049
00:46:32.039 --> 00:46:33.659
I'm not getting a lot of passion here.

1050
00:46:33.719 --> 00:46:34.559
No.

1051
00:46:34.619 --> 00:46:37.980
And Bidmead in particular loved working with new writers.

1052
00:46:38.039 --> 00:46:41.219
Like, you know, he said he really enjoyed working with Flanagan

1053
00:46:41.219 --> 00:46:43.619
and McCulloch and kind of working with them to work the story into

1054
00:46:43.619 --> 00:46:44.099
shape.

1055
00:46:44.159 --> 00:46:46.920
Whereas you look at Eric Zayward talking about, oh, there's these

1056
00:46:46.920 --> 00:46:48.780
writers who don't understand Doctor Who.

1057
00:46:48.840 --> 00:46:52.619
Eric, there, unaware. of what colour his kettle is, I think.

1058
00:46:53.940 --> 00:46:58.619
But yeah, well, bit meat is, you know, by and larger fanboy.

1059
00:46:58.679 --> 00:47:03.300
It still is. his youth and his enthusiasm from, whereas I think

1060
00:47:03.300 --> 00:47:07.800
they would always, well, embittered is possibly a harsh term, but.

1061
00:47:07.920 --> 00:47:11.579
Well, I mean, it's telling that when Bob Holmes comes back, say it

1062
00:47:11.579 --> 00:47:13.199
chums up with him, do you know what I mean?

1063
00:47:13.260 --> 00:47:17.400
And like he doesn't have homes as talent, but he does seem to have

1064
00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:18.420
his cynicism.

1065
00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:21.840
Yeah, and what a conflagration that is.

1066
00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:45.179
Well, dear, listen, I'm afraid that's all the time we have in

1067
00:47:45.179 --> 00:47:45.840
season 19.

1068
00:47:46.019 --> 00:47:48.840
I'm not afraid that that's all the time we have a time flight.

1069
00:47:48.900 --> 00:47:53.159
We'll be back next week with season 20, where Tob will join us to

1070
00:47:53.159 --> 00:47:56.699
travel from Arc of Infinity, right through to the King's Demons.

1071
00:47:56.760 --> 00:48:01.079
We will then be taking on the 5 doctors with what else but a

1072
00:48:01.079 --> 00:48:05.639
commentary with all 4 of us and lots of alcohol.

1073
00:48:05.699 --> 00:48:08.880
Also, you can visit our Facebook page where each of us have

1074
00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:10.440
nominated a 1st doctor story.

1075
00:48:10.500 --> 00:48:13.260
We'd love to do a commentary on and you can vote for it there.

1076
00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:16.920
Until then, you can find us online at our new website

1077
00:48:16.920 --> 00:48:18.780
flightthroughentirety.sexy.

1078
00:48:18.780 --> 00:48:22.619
Flight Through Entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on

1079
00:48:22.619 --> 00:48:24.239
Twitter over on Bondfinger.

1080
00:48:24.300 --> 00:48:28.800
We're still enjoying maybe the Roger Moore era of James Bond.

1081
00:48:28.860 --> 00:48:31.800
That's Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and

1082
00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:35.639
Bondfinger cast on Twitter, and Doctor Who in 10 seconds has some

1083
00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:38.760
idiot talking very quickly.

1084
00:48:38.820 --> 00:48:39.360
I don't know.

1085
00:48:39.480 --> 00:48:44.099
Until next week May none of your Zentai suited men escape from

1086
00:48:44.099 --> 00:48:44.940
their sarcophagus.

1087
00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:46.440
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1088
00:48:46.500 --> 00:48:47.340
Good night.

1089
00:48:47.400 --> 00:48:48.059
Good night.

1090
00:48:48.840 --> 00:48:52.920
That was Flight for Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Brendan

1091
00:48:52.920 --> 00:48:55.980
Jones and Richard Stone, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1092
00:48:56.039 --> 00:48:59.880
This episode, Smiling Plasmaton emoji, was recorded on the 10th of

1093
00:48:59.880 --> 00:49:00.780
June 2016.

1094
00:49:01.559 --> 00:49:04.320
The next episode will be released on the 31st of July.

1095
00:49:04.739 --> 00:49:09.719
Online chat enthusiasts can find the smiling plasmaton emoji, the

1096
00:49:09.719 --> 00:49:13.320
grumpy pteroreptil, and the extremely horny mara, in the flight

1097
00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:17.099
through entirety custom keyboard for sale at all good app stores

1098
00:49:17.099 --> 00:49:17.400
everywhere.

1099
00:49:19.079 --> 00:49:22.139
Interesting Jungian archetypes here.

1100
00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:24.900
We're going back to the Christopher Priest enemy with anything, but

1101
00:49:24.900 --> 00:49:27.599
you know, the good and the evil, I know...

1102
00:49:27.719 --> 00:49:31.860
It's sort of fat, middle aged man in sort of hen tie suit, you

1103
00:49:31.860 --> 00:49:34.800
know, they're going back 140 minutes. not the word.

1104
00:49:34.860 --> 00:49:35.639
Zen Thai?

1105
00:49:35.699 --> 00:49:36.719
Zentai, that's it.

1106
00:49:36.780 --> 00:49:37.619
It's a Zentai.

1107
00:49:37.679 --> 00:49:41.280
Yeah, dear listener, if you're going to Google one of those words

1108
00:49:41.280 --> 00:49:44.699
Google Zendai, don't, well, at least not on our back.

1109
00:49:44.760 --> 00:49:45.900
Don't Google Hentai.

1110
00:49:45.960 --> 00:49:46.739
You're welcome to.

1111
00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:51.659
This is a safe space, not judging out loud, but yeah, maybe don't

1112
00:49:51.659 --> 00:49:52.800
Google Hentai.

1113
00:49:52.860 --> 00:49:54.360
I'm cutting all this out.

1114
00:49:54.420 --> 00:49:57.420
I'm more concerned that we end up on the set of direct.