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This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:41:03

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Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to this 20th anniversary season of Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast you would quite happily bivouac down for the night with Alastair coming.

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Have you seen him in the making of, oh my god.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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And I'm back, and I'm not impressed.

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Yeah, I think there's going to be quite a lot of that as we delve into the arc of infinity.

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So, if I may start, I would like to tell a little story about 1994.

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So there was a run of stories that my father hadn't recorded in the 1980s, so roughly from Black Orchid, through to the King's Demons.

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We didn't have any of those on videotape.

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So none of season 20.

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Todd's looking jealous, actually, as you tell this story.

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So during the 1994 repeat season, we recorded those, an Arc of Infinity Wars, this mythic story, you know, it was a time lord story, and Omega was back, and Colin Baker was in it, and I knew he would become the doctor later, and I heard he shoots the doctor in this one, and how did he survive that and regenerate later?

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Oh my god, yeah, tiny little 11 year old mind blown at this stage.

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And I have to say that when my father recorded it at 4 AM and I was watching it would, then when I got home from school, I'd watch each episode after dinner and what have you.

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I was so impressed by this, and I loved the omega design, and we were back on Gallifrey, and, you know, Nissa got to run around with a gun, and we're in this strange place called Amsterdam.

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I'd never heard of.

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You know how JNT says the memory cheats.

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I think there is no story more emblematic of that sentiment for me.

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Well, I loved it. thought it was terrific.

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What, this time round?

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No I'm lying.

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I didn't want to say it was tiresome again.

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Can I just say something?

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Oh yeah.

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This is tiresome.

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My lawyers will be in touch with you.

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You know, after enduring the last story.

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Which is the worst story in the history of Doctor Who minus one out of 10 as an aside, if you watch this back to back, I think this comes off better.

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But, you know, I really feel for Johnny Byrne in the fact that it's like this shopping list of things that he's required to do.

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You've got to have omega, right?

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Because they want to bring him back.

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No regard to the original writers.

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They only found out at a convention that Omega was back after the fact, you know, it's this casual regard to the history of Doctor Who in writing that is part of this production team.

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And Bob Baker and Dave Martin deserved better.

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They deserve much, but you know, perhaps a bit better than that.

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Never thought you'd hear that on this podcast, too, listen.

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You then got to say, well, you've got to set it in Amsterdam.

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You've got to come up with a resolution to the whole Tegan cliffhanger, but you can't have her in episode one.

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You know, it's just, and what is so frustrating, and you find this out on the DVD.

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On the DVD, they have a quick sort of 12 line rundown of Johnny Burns original...

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That wasn't Alfie.

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The 1st thing that's incredibly frustrating.

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You know, this is sort of turtles all the way down version of frustrating.

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But Johnny Burns' original plotline for this, the time of Nieman, is so much better.

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Was that Proctor Nieman?

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He was back and he was angry.

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Is that it?

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That's right Well, the idea of the enemy taking the doctor's form is kind of the only thing that survives from Johnny Burton's original script that in the Amsterdam setting, because that was put upon him.

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But the idea of the time of Niemann was you have this force called the Avatar, which takes the name of Niemann, but takes the doctor's form, invades Earth in 1983 sets himself up as the head of a conglomerate, which sort of strip minds the planet.

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And so Tegan is in modern day Amsterdam.

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And the doctor and Nissa are in Amsterdam 200 years from now where the timeline's been changed.

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And so they have to come back and investigate and that's where they meet up with Tegan and da da da.

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But the reason that the villain has the doctor's form is because this entity takes the form of someone when they are at their weakest.

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And because of the doctor's interference in the plot and actions in the plot, Neiman becomes aware of the doctor and realises his weakest point was recently when he dropped off a radio telescope tower.

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And so he steals the doctor's form at that point, you know, makes a copy of it at that point because he's at his weakest.

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So the climax of the story, which isn't heavily detailed in the plot outline, but the climax of the story would have taken place during the regeneration.

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So they would have used stock footage and put in Peter Davidson from afar watching and fighting Neiman while there were generations going on.

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It would have just been this incredibly multi-layered complex plot.

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And of course, Johnny Byrne is most famous for Space 1999 in sci-fi circles, on which he was one of the story editors and one of the scriptwriters.

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And that concept has a lot in common with some season one, space 1999, such as force of life springs to mind.

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And we get this.

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Yeah, it's really terrible, isn't it?

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You know, Johnny Byrne did a great job.

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I think we all agreed with Keeper of Trunk, and but that's also improved by the fact that they changed it into the master.

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Well, no, but what I mean by a great job is that he created some really interesting characters.

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It's still a sort of court drama.

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There's still sort of important people around, but you've got people like Luvic and Ceron and cassia and couture.

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Like all of those are really well drawn characters.

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Here you've got people with horrifically stupid 2 syllable science fiction names.

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I cannot forgive Cardinal Zora.

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That is just the worst thing ever.

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But Cardinal Zorak has no personality traits of any kind.

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He's just a, you know, fool in a stupid car.

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Can I just interrupt you there?

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Like, I can't even remember his name.

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Like every time we get to this story.

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Like, I was sitting there and it's like, my old friend, Counsellor Hedden.

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Oh, my old friend Barusa.

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Oh, it's Thalia.

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Oh, it's the Castellan.

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Oh, it's my old friend Damon.

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It's the Kestellan's door, bitch, and then there's the other one.

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That guy.

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2011.

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I was living in the UK and doing a lot of work with Planet Scara Audios, who I'd mentioned before.

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We just had a recording that day and then I think we watched a good man goes to war.

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And we decided afterwards.

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You know, we've still got some wine.

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Let's watch some old bad Doctor Who and record some commentaries.

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So we did Nightmare of Eden and that was fine. actually quite good.

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It's actually quite good.

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We got quite drunk.

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Then once we were quite drunk.

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We watched Arc of infinity.

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You see, this was my 1st inkling I had that the story was terrible.

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Cardinal Zorak.

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What's his job?

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You know, the Castellan's in charge of security.

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The president is the president, heads there to be the traitor.

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Thalia knows about pulse loops.

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It's the very thing.

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Fetch it.

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What's Cardinals or Rex job?

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Now, we were puzzling over this question.

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And then we started noticing increasingly.

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There are sofas all around Galafre, just in the middle of corridors, at tea junctions in front of lifts.

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And so I decided, and I'm going to swear a lot less this time.

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Cardinal Zorak is in charge of sofas, and that's why he puts them everywhere because he knows it's a useless job, but by God, he's going to do it.

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Is it a pub on Galifre or a cafe that they're all sitting around?

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It's a cafe.

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Someone's wearing rodens, travelling gear.

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Someone's wearing the archmandrite's cloak.

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It's so bad Nobody cares.

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I hate Gallifrey.

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Like, I really hate Gallifrey. was really glad that Russell destroyed it.

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It's awful.

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But here it's really, really awful.

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And they've exchanged those fantastically gothic glass corridors and things that we had in Deadly Assassin, which I thought were really effective while still being a bit sort of science fiction-y with horrible 80s foil wallpaper.

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But it's also, I find, so sterile.

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It's just very blocky.

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Everything's just like, um, there's no curves, like, except for the sofa, it's just, I kept thinking of you, Nathan, throughout this entire podcast, about every time we come back to Galafre, it gets that little bit worse.

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And, you know, right at the beginning, like with the traitor.

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Like, we have to go into, like, I really do feel for Michael Goff, who, I think, does a wonderful job as Hidden, but we have to have the mood lighting and sort of disguising his voice a bit, but then he has to have his swizzle stick, which becomes this one that just gets more and more over the top as the whole thing goes through.

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It's the only acting he can do.

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We can't see his face.

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So he's doing slide rule acting.

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But you know, I hear I hear Gallifrey.

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I hear antimatter, and I get that spidey, tingly sense, and then it just goes, I mean, this whole story is just a series of continual disappointments.

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It builds up a bit and I think, oh, yes, yes, yes.

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Halfway through the story.

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It's like, Omega wants control of the Matrix, but nowhere in this story, we told why that's a bad thing.

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It's the worst word peril cliffhanger ever, isn't it?

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That episode 3 cliffhanger where it's omega has control of the matrix and you just think, who bloody cares?

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So what?

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You know, what they do is they get the entire premise of the entire show wrong.

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So the show is about, you know, Moffatt says, a madman in a box.

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It's about the doctor with some companions travelling and having adventures in space and time.

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But whoever's making the show at the moment now thinks it's a story about a galifrean from the constellation of Casterberus, whose planet has transduction barriers and the matrix and like all of these sort of callbacks to really uninteresting elements from the invasion of time.

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Yeah, yeah.

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The thing the thing is with this is that we here in Australia have seen like the invasion of time and the 3 doctors repeated quite a lot.

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People in the UK haven't had this.

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And it's supposed to be, you know, JNT's making out like there's all these things coming back for the 20th anniversary, but if you're a casual viewer, you'd be sitting there going, what the hell is this?

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Like, it's really just for people who really know Doctor Who?

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There's just so much to stop you from getting involved, going, what's this technical gobbly-gook?

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Well, even Omega, I think, is essentially the same thing.

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You know, I think he'd been repeated recently in the 5 faces of Doctor Who.

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So he had at least been on television in the last couple of years.

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But, you know, it's not explained who he is or what happened before, you know, any of that.

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And all of the good things about Omega, particularly that thing, that wonderful thing, that he doesn't exist anymore because he's been eroded away.

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He's got no head.

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And now he's back in a costume that's worse than I really love the 3 doctors one and I hate this costume.

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He just sits.

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He just sits for 3 episodes.

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My God.

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The thing I really don't understand about the omega costume is when Doctor Who brings back monsters in this era, they usually try to make a pretty good effort to keep the recognisable elements.

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Like when the Solurians and the sea devils come back next year.

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Because of various production problems, they're not hugely successful.

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But the designs are instantly recognisable.

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Oh, do you know, I didn't recognise them when I 1st saw the trailer for Warriors in the team.

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I think.

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Yeah.

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Well, I don't think I was that familiar with the Silurians back then anyway, but they also had sort of space robot voices as well.

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That's true.

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They did change the voices.

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But that's the thing.

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Omega had that brilliant mask, which I think I'm right, was designed by James Atchison, who went on to win Oscar Awards.

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And he's won the Jenny Layd Award. he's won the Gen.

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But there is nothing wrong with that design.

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You couldn't even really say, oh, it's 270s.

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It's like, well, no, it wasn't, okay, glitter cape, maybe.

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But bring back that same design or recreate it somehow.

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But you know why they can't, don't you?

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Because the reveal that it's omega is something that they think is a big and interesting thing.

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So if it looked like Omega all along. you know, then that wouldn't work.

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And then they reveal that it's only, except that that's a really boring revelation because virtually no one at home cares.

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And the thing is, there's a perfect opportunity to explain it because Nissa could actually say, who's Omega?

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That would make sense because, of course, Nessa's not going to know who Omega is, and it's not a moment of, well, as you well know.

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Nissa would actually be able to have a bit at the top of episode four, because I think it's the end of episode 3 where they actually reveal its omega.

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At the top of episode 4 going, what the hell is going on?

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Instead, we get that scene in the TARDIS where the doctor's like, I'm building an antimatter detector.

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Look at this, it goes buzz.

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Yeah, they love scenes of people building things, don't they?

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And the pulse loop thing.

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Oh, looking at a flashing button.

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I mean, how boring can it get?

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Oh, the word peril in episode 4 is terrible because it's just like, we're running down this street in Amsterdam, but we need to get to the point where we're running down this street in Amsterdam.

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Let's come back to everyone on Gallifrey looking at a flashing bulb.

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And of course, that whole scene is sold by the worst actor in the history of Doctor Who, which is the lord president, the worst peruser.

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I don't even know what that man's name is, but he retired from acting like 20 years ago.

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He's insufferable.

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Oh, oh, it's Mr. Lisser of Tracam in episode three.

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He stumbles through lines.

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God, I wish the test line, whoever shot headed and shot him.

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I hoped, but my memory cheated.

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Oh, he's terrible.

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And the moustache, what's with the moustache?

197
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awful.

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I think it's his.

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Yeah, terrible.

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If there was ever a case of spontaneous combustion.

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Eurusa should have regenerated, looked in the mirror and gone, oh, well, this is a bust and just regenerated straight away.

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He is just a palling.

203
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Yeah, yeah.

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Did they try and get him back for 5 doctors or did they just think they did?

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God, they failed.

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Because he was in a big show at the time called The Palaces.

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Okay.

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He was the big name cast for this, him and Elspeth Gray, who was Thalia.

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Who was the psychiatrist in Fulty Towers, and is Black Hatter's mother in the first...

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He's in a Black Hatter.

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00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:25.200
But where is Barusa's acerbic wit and charm that the 1st 2 Barusa's hat?

212
00:15:25.259 --> 00:15:27.539
The 1st 2 perusas are really terrific.

213
00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:28.860
The 2 are terrible.

214
00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:30.240
Well, I don't agree with that.

215
00:15:30.299 --> 00:15:33.179
I really like the one in the 5 doctors quite a lot.

216
00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:37.980
I think he's got a menace and there's just something off about him that I think works really well.

217
00:15:38.039 --> 00:15:39.299
This one is just pathetic.

218
00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:44.820
You've got that scene with the High Council, which is appallingly directed by Ron Jones.

219
00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:46.139
Is Ron Jones with this story?

220
00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:59.279
I look at it, and it's like, like, imagine a window in a department store where you've got people sitting like mannequins, like in a row, and then you've got the Christmas chair where Santa Claus is sitting at a right angle to that.

221
00:15:59.340 --> 00:16:01.139
That's the bloody scene.

222
00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:03.240
And I'm just thinking, is this pathetic?

223
00:16:03.299 --> 00:16:04.500
pinned to their seats?

224
00:16:04.620 --> 00:16:06.360
I mean, look at what Dahlia is wearing.

225
00:16:06.419 --> 00:16:09.659
She looks like the queen of hearts from...

226
00:16:09.659 --> 00:16:13.799
Wonderland. like with that small thing and the big huge skirt.

227
00:16:13.860 --> 00:16:15.899
I mean, I really like her, I think she does a good job.

228
00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:16.860
Yeah, she is.

229
00:16:16.980 --> 00:16:19.919
And, you know, I think Heden does a good job and well, Zorak Zorak.

230
00:16:19.980 --> 00:16:21.600
You've got the Catalan being a bitch.

231
00:16:21.659 --> 00:16:28.860
You've got, he's such a bitch to, to, um, well, his door bitch who seems to be guarding the door on the doctor all of the time.

232
00:16:29.100 --> 00:16:34.019
And I guess I'm talking about the door, bitch now, so I talk about Colin Baker.

233
00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:35.759
It's really funny.

234
00:16:35.820 --> 00:16:38.220
Like, you know, there's some characters you remember in Doctor Who.

235
00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:40.440
Like you remember Cassia, or you remember.

236
00:16:40.500 --> 00:16:41.399
Madge.

237
00:16:41.460 --> 00:16:43.080
You remember Madge from Black Orchid?

238
00:16:43.139 --> 00:16:43.679
You do.

239
00:16:44.940 --> 00:16:52.980
I remember reading in the 20th anniversary special, like obviously Colin was announced as the doctor and he was in Arc infinity and I went, Well, what did he do in Ark of infinity?

240
00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:58.919
Do you know, it's really funny, but when I was watching it for the podcast, I actually went, 0 my God, that's right.

241
00:16:58.980 --> 00:17:00.059
Colin Baker's in this.

242
00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:01.019
I'd completely forgotten.

243
00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:02.639
Well, I actually like his performance.

244
00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:03.659
Yeah, me too.

245
00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:05.759
But the character just disappears.

246
00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:06.539
Yes.

247
00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:08.460
Yeah, he disappears in episode three.

248
00:17:08.579 --> 00:17:09.900
He just walks down a corridor.

249
00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:13.019
There is a missing scene of him from episode 4 on the DVD.

250
00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:16.380
I have to say of all the guest cast, I think Colin gives the best performance.

251
00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:17.880
That's probably fair.

252
00:17:17.940 --> 00:17:18.420
Yeah.

253
00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:21.000
And that's not damning with faint brains.

254
00:17:21.059 --> 00:17:22.019
It's actually a good performance.

255
00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:29.759
Not only that, I can clearly see the difference in his characterisation of Maxwell from his characterisation of the doctor.

256
00:17:29.819 --> 00:17:33.240
I can clearly accept them as different characters.

257
00:17:33.299 --> 00:17:37.380
It's not like, say, Princess Astra and Romana, Romana 2.

258
00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:43.859
Now that's not a slight on Lala Ward at all, but I just found the way she played the 2 characters quite similar in some ways.

259
00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:45.420
Oh no, I thought they were quite different.

260
00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:50.460
I think Princess Astro is a kind of posh idiot in a way in a way that Romana isn't.

261
00:17:50.519 --> 00:18:04.799
But I actually suspect that Maxill is the 6th doctor and that he heads off, you know, like he goes to Titan 3 and loses a whole bunch of weight and then travels, you know, back in time, you know, in order to shoot Pete and just kind of mess with him.

262
00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:05.880
Yeah, yeah.

263
00:18:05.940 --> 00:18:14.579
You know that that whole thing in Doctor Who series 9 with the girl who lived, where the doctor figures out, this is why I have this face to tell me to save people.

264
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:17.279
My reaction to that is, well, what was Maxwell, you know?

265
00:18:17.339 --> 00:18:19.259
The doctor regenerates into Maxwell.

266
00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:20.640
Look out, you're gonna try and kill yourself.

267
00:18:20.700 --> 00:18:22.440
Lo and behold, the valiard turns up.

268
00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:26.460
So he's right, you know, there's an actual warning there. shooting people.

269
00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:30.000
So we've got, I think it's a pathetic cliffhanger.

270
00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:32.220
Sort of like, okay, shoot the doctor.

271
00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:34.619
Peter Davidson lies down for 2 seconds, gets up.

272
00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:38.099
Like, I just think they're going, could it be a stun gun, do you think?

273
00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:38.819
Do you know what I mean?

274
00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:39.480
Like you're there?

275
00:18:39.539 --> 00:18:40.200
Like he's been shot?

276
00:18:40.259 --> 00:18:42.539
Well, it's just possible that that was a stunt gun?

277
00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:46.619
If I can say, well, we know it's not an impulse laser.

278
00:18:46.740 --> 00:18:48.660
But all you know what?

279
00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:49.859
I'm going to say this.

280
00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:51.420
The 1st 2 episodes of this story.

281
00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:55.019
Sarah Sutton finally gets gumption and something to do.

282
00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:57.359
She has rapport with Damon, they make a wonderful team.

283
00:18:57.420 --> 00:19:02.700
The moment you give Missa a court setting, a gun, an omission.

284
00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:03.660
She's fantastic.

285
00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:05.460
Yeah, she's really, really good.

286
00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:10.680
And her scenes with the High Council when she's like really upset with them and showing real emotions.

287
00:19:10.740 --> 00:19:12.480
She cries at the end of episode two.

288
00:19:12.539 --> 00:19:14.700
I think there's a bit of glycerine there.

289
00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:17.579
Well, I think she's deeply distressed.

290
00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:18.599
The doctor is dead.

291
00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:20.099
Tegan has left.

292
00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:21.000
Adric is dead.

293
00:19:21.059 --> 00:19:22.079
Her world is dead.

294
00:19:22.140 --> 00:19:23.759
She is alone on this planet.

295
00:19:23.819 --> 00:19:26.700
I think she really sells it, and I think she's really, really good.

296
00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:32.460
Do you think she's, like, anticipating the next few decades of having to hang out in that cafe on Teliframe?

297
00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:35.400
her only kind of social outlet.

298
00:19:35.460 --> 00:19:47.039
Possibly, because, you see, I think she should sue John Nathan Turner for the way in which this character has just been totally underused the entire time and it's going to continue over the next few weeks as well.

299
00:19:47.099 --> 00:19:50.940
They should have left on in the TARDIS up until the 5 doctors.

300
00:19:51.000 --> 00:20:02.160
She should have gone up into Gallifre and met Damon again and done something, and then they should have said, well, we're going to get married, and they should have had a marriage at the end of the 5 doctors between Nissa and Damon, and, you know, I can write this crap.

301
00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:04.440
No, the doctor would have been so jealous.

302
00:20:04.500 --> 00:20:05.819
Damon's his old boyfriend.

303
00:20:06.059 --> 00:20:08.339
He left, obviously.

304
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:12.240
But I'm just saying, like, you know, she, the glimpses that you're getting this of what she could do.

305
00:20:12.299 --> 00:20:17.400
And then the moment Tegan turns back up and they're back together as a team, she becomes the 3rd wheel.

306
00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:23.339
Tegan gets the lines and she gets one every so often. just so distressing.

307
00:20:23.460 --> 00:20:29.579
Speaking of people turning up with their boyfriends, of course, we've got Colin and Robin, who they're absolutely not a couple, are they?

308
00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:34.680
Do you know, there's a scene where Colin's a bit freaked out about being in the crypt or is it Robin?

309
00:20:34.740 --> 00:20:35.039
Which one?

310
00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:36.720
Colin is Tegan's cousin.

311
00:20:36.779 --> 00:20:39.059
And he's freaked out about being in the crypt.

312
00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:39.839
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

313
00:20:39.900 --> 00:20:44.339
And so Robin is trying to encourage him to take his clothes off.

314
00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:50.819
And he refuses to do that because he might want to leg it in case Robin kind of comes onto it in the night or something.

315
00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:52.740
Well, at least take your boots off.

316
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:54.359
Yes, please do.

317
00:20:55.259 --> 00:20:57.299
Oh my goodness.

318
00:20:57.359 --> 00:20:58.559
Can I just say something here?

319
00:20:58.619 --> 00:21:01.259
Like, actually, that Crip stuff freaked me out as a kid.

320
00:21:01.319 --> 00:21:03.480
Yeah, like, I really, really creepy.

321
00:21:03.539 --> 00:21:04.200
I really did.

322
00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:05.579
Until the ergon comes in.

323
00:21:05.640 --> 00:21:09.359
Can I just say that ergon is so crap and it's such a toothless wonder?

324
00:21:09.420 --> 00:21:11.640
Here you've got the cousin of Tegan.

325
00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:16.859
They're not going to kill the cousin of Tegan. 18 months ago, an Australian woman went missing and her aunt was killed.

326
00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:20.579
She turns up a year later, is there an investigation into what happened?

327
00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:24.720
If the cousin goes missing and she suddenly turns up in Amsterdam, is there a connection?

328
00:21:24.779 --> 00:21:28.380
It's not like in a year's time, another one of her family is going to go missing at all.

329
00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:31.319
So she's like murdering all of her extended family.

330
00:21:31.380 --> 00:21:32.220
Exactly.

331
00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:36.960
But hold on, does that make Colin Auntie Vanessa's son?

332
00:21:37.019 --> 00:21:39.720
And that's why Tegan's coming to visit him.

333
00:21:39.779 --> 00:21:41.460
So while you've been off backpacking.

334
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:44.400
I'm afraid your mum's been shrunk down to the size of an action man.

335
00:21:44.460 --> 00:21:45.839
She's not actually an action man.

336
00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:48.480
Don't look too closely at the model, but yeah.

337
00:21:48.539 --> 00:21:49.680
Hi.

338
00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:52.559
No, I'm sure it's from another side of the family.

339
00:21:52.619 --> 00:21:54.000
I'm almost certain.

340
00:21:54.059 --> 00:22:01.019
So he gets abducted by the erg on the ergon comes in, it clearly can't see the poor actor inside, it can't see.

341
00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:10.980
And it sort of shoots Colin and because Omega is reluctant to get up from his chair for 3 episodes, he press gangs Colin into pressing all those buttons for him.

342
00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:11.519
Is that it?

343
00:22:11.579 --> 00:22:20.759
Yeah, the weird thing is in the script, like once he comes through to our universe, Omega is meant to be sort of paralysed in that chair because if he moves, it'll cause an antimatter explosion.

344
00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:22.019
Except for that bit.

345
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:26.339
In episode three, I think it is, where he comes to the door to interrogate Tegan.

346
00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:26.880
You know?

347
00:22:26.940 --> 00:22:33.059
Is that the scene where he's standing next to an ergon and they're in a 2 shot and the ergon is looking around?

348
00:22:33.180 --> 00:22:44.759
I've been planning to use that for no publicise this episode, but the trust your doctor boys have already used it because it is just the stupidest looking thing. of 1980s Doctor Who.

349
00:22:44.819 --> 00:22:46.259
See, the problem with the ergon.

350
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:51.059
It was designed to look like alien and Geiger kind of designed.

351
00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:56.880
But the head was made as a hat to sit on top of the actor's egg.

352
00:22:56.940 --> 00:23:02.640
So the problem is the slightest movement he makes, the whole thing wobbles like a curious chicken.

353
00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:04.319
Yeah, no it looks like a chicken.

354
00:23:04.380 --> 00:23:18.420
I think there was in DWM a short story one time where Ace was working at Kentucky Fried Chicken and the Ergon came in and she thought that it was like Barry who works with a, you know, his costume.

355
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:34.859
And I think friend of the podcast, Peter McTire, had a theory that rather than being one of Omega's less successful attempts at psychogenesis, what Omega actually does is employ people to wear increasingly crap and unconvincing monster costumes.

356
00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:38.880
So that's the gel guards explained and now the ergon.

357
00:23:38.940 --> 00:23:42.720
Like, we don't even get the gel guards. don't even get some fake reality.

358
00:23:42.779 --> 00:23:47.039
We just get that stupid web thing that makes Tegan go wibbly wobbly.

359
00:23:47.099 --> 00:23:48.299
That looks ridiculous.

360
00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:49.740
I mean, those scenes are stupid.

361
00:23:49.859 --> 00:23:51.180
That's meant to be the matrix.

362
00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:54.000
But back to the ergon and its inability to kill anybody.

363
00:23:54.059 --> 00:24:00.420
I do laugh every single time anybody gets shot and goes, ah, and changes into negative and out of negative.

364
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:05.640
And then, of course, you know, when Colin comes back and he's doing all of his work for Omega.

365
00:24:05.700 --> 00:24:11.099
The look that he's given, it reminds me of a 1980 sort of video clip, you know, with that red under the eyes.

366
00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:14.640
But you know how they got him into that sort of situation.

367
00:24:14.700 --> 00:24:15.960
They actually...

368
00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:16.920
Copious amounts of drugs.

369
00:24:16.980 --> 00:24:21.660
Well, that, and that was after, they said, we're just going to put you in this room for a moment.

370
00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:24.059
We're just going to show you a bit of old Doctor Who.

371
00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:29.220
And within 15 minutes, he was like screaming at the walls and they had to turn off time flight.

372
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:32.460
And, you know, they had to then go for the take.

373
00:24:33.660 --> 00:24:44.519
I thought they might have sat Gary Downey by his bed and he got Gary Downey to like poke him with a stick every 15 minutes so that he was suffering from sleep deprivation during those scenes.

374
00:24:44.579 --> 00:24:47.759
And then he found out it wasn't a stick and that's why his jaws dropped.

375
00:24:47.819 --> 00:24:48.839
Okay.

376
00:24:48.900 --> 00:24:50.039
Where are we at?

377
00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:54.059
I think I think maybe I should mention some bigs I like about this.

378
00:24:54.119 --> 00:24:56.160
No, I'm not finished with hate.

379
00:24:56.220 --> 00:24:57.839
I'm not finished with the hat.

380
00:24:57.900 --> 00:25:00.119
Yeah, but I think we should interperse it, you know, like an apparative.

381
00:25:00.180 --> 00:25:03.480
As I've already said, I think Colin is wonderful in this.

382
00:25:03.539 --> 00:25:04.740
Colin Baker.

383
00:25:04.740 --> 00:25:06.000
Colin Baker.

384
00:25:06.059 --> 00:25:06.779
Where is he?

385
00:25:06.839 --> 00:25:18.180
Although I will say for gentlemen of a certain persuasion and ladies of a certain persuasion as well, check out the making of Alastair coming has grown into quite an attractive man, whereas he used to be a stick insect.

386
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:22.079
He's got a kind of 80s look to him where he is sort of good looking.

387
00:25:22.140 --> 00:25:27.000
The 2 of them remind me of the people from K9 and Company, you know, Brendan and that...

388
00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:28.619
Oh, the other one.

389
00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:29.940
Yeah, the Peter jacket.

390
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:30.299
Peter.

391
00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:38.160
Yeah, yeah. where maybe if you squint sort of, one of them's good looking and the other's sort of birdlike and bizarre looking.

392
00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:44.880
There's a lovely moment in the making of where Alastair coming is talking about the ergon and says, so the ergon came in to shoot me and he raised the gunwale.

393
00:25:44.940 --> 00:25:45.900
Well, maybe she raised the gun.

394
00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:46.619
I don't know.

395
00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:48.240
Ergon. sex indeterminate.

396
00:25:48.299 --> 00:25:52.500
And there's something about the way he says sex indeterminate that just makes my knees a little bit wobbly.

397
00:25:54.059 --> 00:25:56.339
I'm about to go into negative again.

398
00:25:56.400 --> 00:25:58.019
Can I say something positive?

399
00:25:58.079 --> 00:25:59.339
Yeah, you say something positive.

400
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:00.000
It happens rarely.

401
00:26:00.059 --> 00:26:00.839
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

402
00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:02.700
So the 1st time I ever went to Europe.

403
00:26:02.759 --> 00:26:10.200
I visited London and then caught a ferry from Harwich to the Hook of Holland and drove to Amsterdam.

404
00:26:10.259 --> 00:26:14.640
And so Amsterdam is the 1st European city that I've ever been to.

405
00:26:14.700 --> 00:26:16.440
And I think I've been there 3 times now.

406
00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:22.319
And I think maybe I've spent a total of a month there and I absolutely adore Amsterdam.

407
00:26:22.380 --> 00:26:23.279
It's so beautiful.

408
00:26:23.339 --> 00:26:31.140
And so watching the location stuff and there's altogether too little of it is really, really great.

409
00:26:31.259 --> 00:26:32.880
Like I really like it.

410
00:26:32.940 --> 00:26:38.279
And in particular, I think the location stuff in episode 4 works really well.

411
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:46.380
Instead of a lot of people talking about the matrix and quad magnetism and all of those just deadly, deadly, uninteresting things.

412
00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:48.779
Episode 4 is a chase.

413
00:26:48.779 --> 00:26:50.039
Only has escaped.

414
00:26:50.099 --> 00:26:51.420
He looks like the doctor.

415
00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:54.119
We know that he'll explode everything.

416
00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:59.519
It's a very straightforward and understandable thing and they chase after him and I just think it works really, really well.

417
00:26:59.579 --> 00:27:01.500
Do you think they use the location well?

418
00:27:01.500 --> 00:27:02.759
In that episode?

419
00:27:02.819 --> 00:27:14.339
And I think because now they're telling a straightforward story instead of a lot of people in space costumes standing around in space corridors talking about space threats, we just have a chase.

420
00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:22.619
And there's even a scene where a really off-putting looking child smiles at Omica when they're standing in front of a hurdy-gurdy.

421
00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:32.640
And the scene's a little bit cringeworthy, but there's an attempt to give Omega a little bit of humanity and to make us feel a little bit of sympathy for him.

422
00:27:32.700 --> 00:27:34.440
And I think that that's really good.

423
00:27:34.500 --> 00:27:36.839
I think that's the only good thing about the story.

424
00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:41.640
No, but those children are wearing the most hideous show.

425
00:27:41.700 --> 00:27:46.019
Oh yeah, they're very off-putting looking children. and they're not even from the Doctor Who pattern book.

426
00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:48.960
But watching these people watch this Hedigo thing is so boring.

427
00:27:49.019 --> 00:27:57.059
It is corny and kind of cliche, but it's a nice little moment in a story that has so little humanity to it.

428
00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:00.299
Peter's five, 10 minutes is omega.

429
00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:01.740
He's really really good.

430
00:28:01.799 --> 00:28:06.779
I mean, especially that bit in the studio where he's being dubbed by Ian Collier, so it's not even his voice.

431
00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:08.160
So he has to do it all with the face.

432
00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:17.339
And again, he manages to delineate the performance successfully, just by tensing his face muscles, slightly playing it with a bit of a sneer.

433
00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:25.859
But I think importantly, and he did have trouble making sure he matched the tempo of being Colliers prerecorded lines.

434
00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:28.859
But it's kind of like a drag queen.

435
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:30.839
They're a dragon.

436
00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:37.140
Yeah, and there are drag queens who lip sync really well and put emotion into it and there are drag queens who just move their lips.

437
00:28:37.380 --> 00:28:41.099
Peter Davidson is drag queen who puts emotion into it.

438
00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:42.720
I love to see that.

439
00:28:43.500 --> 00:28:47.339
Well, there's pretty much that episode of the Tomorrow people, isn't it?

440
00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:48.299
That's almost it.

441
00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:51.059
I've been to Amsterdam as well, just once.

442
00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:53.220
And I stayed with friends.

443
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:57.599
And I did explain to them that while I was there, I wanted to go looking for certain locations.

444
00:28:57.660 --> 00:29:00.900
And yeah, I went and found Frank and Dahl and what have you.

445
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:02.339
But naturally they were curious.

446
00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:03.480
It's like, why?

447
00:29:03.539 --> 00:29:05.519
And I said, oh, well, have you heard a doctor?

448
00:29:05.579 --> 00:29:08.039
And they said, oh yeah, we've heard of it. not big here, but we have heard of it.

449
00:29:08.099 --> 00:29:09.480
I said, well, they filmed there once.

450
00:29:09.539 --> 00:29:11.099
Oh, you must bring it with you.

451
00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:11.759
Oh, dear.

452
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:15.779
And this was before I'd recorded that commentary where I realised how terrible it was.

453
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:23.220
So I said, yes, I'll bring it with me, and then after we recorded that commentary, I'm like, oh, no, I have to take this and show it to my friends in Amsterdam.

454
00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:24.240
So we sat down and watched it.

455
00:29:24.299 --> 00:29:28.740
They were hooting with laughter.

456
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:31.079
They hated Nissa.

457
00:29:31.740 --> 00:29:35.220
Oh, they hated Nisa because she didn't shoot enough people.

458
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:38.400
Like, that bit where she throws away a gun.

459
00:29:38.460 --> 00:29:39.660
Tim's just screaming at the scream.

460
00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:41.220
No, shoot them, shoot the ball.

461
00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:45.720
And then when she screamed at the Irkov, they're like, oh, can't we just kill her?

462
00:29:45.779 --> 00:29:48.299
And they didn't much care for Tegan.

463
00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:56.279
But at the end of episode 3 where the doctor says, oh, look, it controls the Matrix and the credits come up, they just turned to me and said, what does that mean?

464
00:29:56.339 --> 00:29:57.299
Yeah.

465
00:29:57.299 --> 00:29:57.960
Is that bad?

466
00:29:58.019 --> 00:30:01.799
And I said, I don't know.

467
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:04.500
I honestly don't know.

468
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:12.299
It must have been bad because it was the cliffhanger, but it is the worst word peril cliffhanger ever, apart from in a couple of stories.

469
00:30:12.420 --> 00:30:20.339
So when you went to Amsterdam, did you then go into any youth hostels and talk to the receptionist and they couldn't give you directions?

470
00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:25.619
So they just happened to talk to the person that could give you directions that just happened to be on there at the same time at the same day.

471
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:28.079
Oh my goodness.

472
00:30:28.140 --> 00:30:29.880
She was just coming off her shift. was all.

473
00:30:29.940 --> 00:30:31.380
But it's just so convenient.

474
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:37.980
I mean, for our younger listeners, obviously this is the time before internet, a time before a lot of computers.

475
00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:40.319
So everything was just written down in books and that sort of thing.

476
00:30:40.380 --> 00:30:46.079
But, you know, them in the convenience of having that receptionist there at that time just so they could give them the message.

477
00:30:46.140 --> 00:30:49.380
I just rolled my eyes going, oh, please let this be over.

478
00:30:49.500 --> 00:30:55.200
Yeah, it would have actually been better if she had just been the receptionist there when the doctor and Nissa come in.

479
00:30:55.259 --> 00:30:55.619
Simple.

480
00:30:55.680 --> 00:31:01.380
She's been rostered on 2 days in a row, but instead we've got this fake out of, oh, if only the right person was there.

481
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:03.000
Hooray, she is.

482
00:31:03.059 --> 00:31:06.480
It's like, Episode 4 was already overrunning.

483
00:31:06.539 --> 00:31:09.779
They had to cut about 5 minutes out of it, and you keep that in.

484
00:31:10.500 --> 00:31:12.599
Now, Taken.

485
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:14.160
It's very funny.

486
00:31:14.220 --> 00:31:22.200
In episode one, of course, Colin is Australian, and the moment that that's mentioned, like, you know, I get the Spidey sense going, oh, why is he Australian?

487
00:31:22.259 --> 00:31:27.119
And then they talk about the cousin, it's sort of like, you know, I'm mourning the loss of Tegan from like the week before.

488
00:31:27.180 --> 00:31:32.099
And so it's sort of like, ooh, and then she turns up, like obviously in episode two.

489
00:31:32.339 --> 00:31:35.400
What do we think of her reintroduction?

490
00:31:35.460 --> 00:31:37.019
I really like her hair.

491
00:31:37.140 --> 00:31:41.099
I really like that she's wearing a different outfit.

492
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:43.019
I don't like the outfit very much.

493
00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:44.819
I think it makes her bum look huge.

494
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:46.559
Yeah, Janet hates the outfit.

495
00:31:46.680 --> 00:31:47.819
It's really baggy.

496
00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:49.019
It's not very attractive.

497
00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:50.519
I think the way she puts it is.

498
00:31:50.579 --> 00:31:53.579
Yeah, it makes the bum look huge and makes the front look flat.

499
00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:55.200
Yeah, you know, it's not good.

500
00:31:55.259 --> 00:31:58.319
It's a really strange choice of outfit to put her in.

501
00:31:58.380 --> 00:32:10.500
As for her return, I think she has moved the character on a bit, you know, because her through line in season 19 was the stress of not being able to get back to her job and we find out in this story that she's lost her job.

502
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:12.720
So she plays the role with less stress.

503
00:32:12.900 --> 00:32:16.619
I think she's really good in season 20 generally.

504
00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:20.039
I haven't watched it all the way through in preparation, but I'm about halfway through.

505
00:32:20.099 --> 00:32:22.440
And I've been really impressed with Jadet.

506
00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:31.380
And, you know, think back to that sort of Panto kids show acting she was doing. yeah, really early on And now she's actually quite likeable.

507
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:39.720
And I made no secret of the fact that I adored Tegan when I 1st watched it when she was 1st on it. she was just terrific.

508
00:32:39.779 --> 00:32:46.500
She's not so great in season 18 and 19, but she's really nailed it by now.

509
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:48.480
She's still strong.

510
00:32:48.539 --> 00:32:51.180
She still doesn't put up with any nonsense.

511
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:57.960
She still has all of those sort of basic characteristics that the character is supposed to have, but she downplays it so much more.

512
00:32:58.019 --> 00:33:00.240
I think she's really likeable.

513
00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:06.480
Yeah, there's a big change, and I've commented before that I think in Black Orchard, once she gets drunk.

514
00:33:06.539 --> 00:33:08.640
In that whole story, there's a huge change.

515
00:33:08.700 --> 00:33:10.799
The character from that point on, it's so much better.

516
00:33:10.859 --> 00:33:14.460
And here again, it's another subtle changes and it's really good.

517
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:24.059
I give this story like about 5 out of 10 and I think that's been generous. very But I give it a whole bonus mark more for the ending.

518
00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:25.500
The moment she's...

519
00:33:25.619 --> 00:33:30.240
No, honestly, I just laugh my head off the moment she says, I've lost my job.

520
00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:32.400
You know, you're stuck with me or whatever.

521
00:33:32.460 --> 00:33:42.480
And this is a static and then Peter just sells that moment so well that that smile and that grin and then the horrible realisation that she's back.

522
00:33:42.539 --> 00:33:44.759
You know, it's that quarter of a second.

523
00:33:44.819 --> 00:33:50.759
It's at 5 frames before the end credits cut in that his face just drops.

524
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:53.039
It is such a good moment.

525
00:33:53.099 --> 00:33:55.019
No, look, I agree with you, Todd.

526
00:33:55.079 --> 00:33:57.240
I think this story, it's not bad.

527
00:33:57.299 --> 00:33:59.880
It's not insulting to our intelligence.

528
00:33:59.940 --> 00:34:00.599
It's just boring.

529
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:09.179
I don't care about any of the supporting characters, including Omega, and you know, I cared about the Stephen Thorn Omega.

530
00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:12.239
He had an emotional journey, let's say.

531
00:34:12.300 --> 00:34:14.519
You know, he had emotional development.

532
00:34:14.579 --> 00:34:17.519
The closest thing I come to carry about a character is Maxwell.

533
00:34:17.579 --> 00:34:21.659
And it's kind of like, well, the problem is you'd never want Maxwell to succeed.

534
00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:25.320
But at the same time, you really like the performance and you really like the character.

535
00:34:25.380 --> 00:34:31.320
You know, when the De Castan actually chews him out for not doing his job and threatens to replace him.

536
00:34:31.380 --> 00:34:35.039
I think you get a bit of understanding about why he's like he is.

537
00:34:35.099 --> 00:34:36.659
He has to work for this bitch.

538
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:43.619
I dislike Castellan, and I don't know why everyone's so unpleasant to the doctor when they're going to execute him.

539
00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:50.639
You'd think they'd make him a lovely meal and be super nice to him and say, sorry, old chap, but it's just so we're going to get rid of you.

540
00:34:50.699 --> 00:34:57.719
And then on just like a pivot point, they just change their minds like, boom, they just, oh, well, you know, we'll help you now.

541
00:34:57.780 --> 00:35:04.860
Yeah, this whole story, the whole story hinges on the time lords not being very nice.

542
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:13.320
And I know that sounds weak, but Omega somehow contacts Hedden and Hedden agrees to give him the technology to move back into this universe.

543
00:35:13.380 --> 00:35:15.719
And it's like, you know what, Headen, mate?

544
00:35:15.780 --> 00:35:17.099
You're on the High Council.

545
00:35:17.159 --> 00:35:18.059
You got the presidency here.

546
00:35:18.119 --> 00:35:24.360
Why not walk in and say, I've heard from Omega and I've got a theory to bring him back and you know, he'll be back and he'll be able to work with us.

547
00:35:24.420 --> 00:35:35.579
And the lord president in the 3 doctors seemed reluctant to kill Omega, and Barusa here doesn't seem too bloodthirsty.

548
00:35:35.639 --> 00:35:36.780
It's all about the antimatter.

549
00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:39.840
So, you know, if Edna just said, hey, let's everyone work together.

550
00:35:40.019 --> 00:35:42.780
They wouldn't have needed subterfuge.

551
00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:46.139
And again, as you say with the doctor, it's like, let's recall him.

552
00:35:46.199 --> 00:35:47.340
Let's not tell him what it's about.

553
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:48.119
Let's lock him up.

554
00:35:48.179 --> 00:35:49.800
Let's chase him with guards.

555
00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:52.619
Zorik's like every time he returns, there's violence.

556
00:35:52.679 --> 00:35:54.480
It's the ultimate stop hitting yourself.

557
00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:58.980
Maybe it's a satire of 80s office culture.

558
00:35:59.039 --> 00:36:01.920
If only the different departments talk to each other.

559
00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:06.360
And, you know, I'm sure Richard will sympathise with this if only the different departments talk to each other.

560
00:36:06.420 --> 00:36:09.840
Okay, we wouldn't have a story, but we'd have a better outcome.

561
00:36:09.900 --> 00:36:18.900
Yeah, well, all of that stuff about Omega is just completely absent from this story and he's just the name of a bad guy played by Ian Collier.

562
00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:20.099
You were right.

563
00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:23.519
There is something about Omega.

564
00:36:23.579 --> 00:36:25.860
If Gallifrey were a properly mythic place.

565
00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:27.300
Moffatt gets this right.

566
00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:36.539
We've been back to Galifre in the new series and it's a huge event and it looks mythic and impressive.

567
00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:40.440
It's not just a bunch of space corridors with foiled wallpaper.

568
00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:58.260
And the reason that Gammafray is mythic and impressive is because Omega sacrificed his life and was abandoned and all of that stuff that made him interesting, even though he was written by Bob Baker and Dave Martin, is completely absent here, he's just generic bad guy.

569
00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:07.079
It's what's the point of bringing him back at all if you're not going to bring back any of the things that actually define his character.

570
00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:12.239
It's not a bad story, like Black Hawk.

571
00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:16.079
The Black Orchid is a bad story, and I mean morally as well as in terms of quality.

572
00:37:16.139 --> 00:37:18.059
But this is just...

573
00:37:18.059 --> 00:37:22.019
No, I think this is much worse than bad than bad orchid.

574
00:37:22.019 --> 00:37:23.579
Is that what it's called?

575
00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:25.500
I think it's much worse than that.

576
00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:26.099
I agree.

577
00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:27.780
It's time flight levels of bad.

578
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:34.139
I think this is a run of 8 episodes that really have absolutely nothing going for them.

579
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:36.900
You know, you've got Eric Saywood script editing.

580
00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:39.780
Eight episodes of conscriminating, and it's just awful.

581
00:37:39.900 --> 00:37:42.480
And it's directed by Ron Jones, who's just awful.

582
00:37:42.539 --> 00:37:46.079
The weird thing is, and you know, I say last week, I quite like Time Flight.

583
00:37:46.139 --> 00:37:52.139
But Time Flight and Arc of Infinity are both written by very good sci-fi writers.

584
00:37:52.199 --> 00:38:00.119
You know, people who write very good sci-fi concepts and we'll see again in a couple of weeks with Peter Grimwade, what he can do with a good sci-fi concept.

585
00:38:00.179 --> 00:38:06.719
But you know, Johnny Byrne, he wrote real, if you like real world drama as well, like drama set in the real world.

586
00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:08.699
But Space 1999.

587
00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:18.059
He was a huge force behind space 1999 year one, which wasn't always successful, but always had interesting ideas and executed them interestingly.

588
00:38:18.119 --> 00:38:19.920
What's also interesting?

589
00:38:19.980 --> 00:38:23.099
The show comes back to just over 7000000 viewers for this season.

590
00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:26.219
Now last year it averaged 9 million.

591
00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:30.659
Right. 2000000 people have decided not to tune in in the 20th year.

592
00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:32.219
Do you know I was one of them.

593
00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:33.239
I think I said that before.

594
00:38:33.300 --> 00:38:39.840
I didn't tune in to Arc of Infinity, episode one because I was so annoyed about Tegan being left behind in time flight.

595
00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:41.639
It was really distressing.

596
00:38:41.699 --> 00:38:46.860
I found that really distressing after Adrick's death to have that happen on top of that.

597
00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:49.380
But at the beginning of the last story.

598
00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:52.079
Time flight, episode one got 10 million, right?

599
00:38:52.139 --> 00:38:53.400
26th on the chart.

600
00:38:53.699 --> 00:38:57.179
After that, Doctor Who never gets over 9000000 again.

601
00:38:57.239 --> 00:38:59.039
By the end of that story, they're down to 8.one.

602
00:38:59.099 --> 00:39:00.480
They've dropped another 1000000 here.

603
00:39:00.539 --> 00:39:02.699
You know, there's, I've got a theory here.

604
00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:06.059
You know, there's fans of a certain age who are about 5 years older than me.

605
00:39:06.059 --> 00:39:11.760
I really hate Adrick and hated Adrick at the time and you see it in all the commentaries about how we didn't like this teenage boy.

606
00:39:11.820 --> 00:39:16.800
The ones that are a bit younger, perhaps around my age, were kids, and Adric dies, and he's a kid.

607
00:39:16.860 --> 00:39:18.000
And they didn't like that.

608
00:39:18.059 --> 00:39:20.400
And so the kids aren't tuning...

609
00:39:20.460 --> 00:39:27.780
Well, I've just made that up on the spot, but I'm just saying they're not tuning in and we've now lost 3000000 viewers in the space of 5 episodes.

610
00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:28.380
Yeah.

611
00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:36.300
And the thing is, if the 10-year-old child of a family is not tuning into Doctor Who, that's 3 or 4 people who aren't watching.

612
00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:38.880
Because mum and dad aren't watching.

613
00:39:38.940 --> 00:39:39.900
Gran's not watching.

614
00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:46.260
Granddad's not watching the older siblings who wouldn't normally watch by themselves, but watch because their younger brother or sister enjoys it.

615
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:46.920
They're not watching.

616
00:39:46.980 --> 00:39:49.679
So you have another impact in 3 or 4 years time.

617
00:39:49.739 --> 00:39:51.360
I think you're onto something there, Todd.

618
00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:54.300
Are we done with this thing yet?

619
00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:55.139
just want to move on.

620
00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:58.320
I just want to give you the impression of how good it could have been.

621
00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:02.820
What, a different director, a different cast and a different script?

622
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:04.019
Well, a different cast.

623
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:07.139
Considered for the role of Maxwell was Pierce Brosnan.

624
00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:10.440
Considered for the role of Thalia.

625
00:40:10.500 --> 00:40:16.019
Linda Bellingham, Anna Blackman, and Jenny Lindon.

626
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:19.380
Barbara from Doctor Who and the Daleks.

627
00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:20.760
Let's consider it for Dahlia.

628
00:40:20.820 --> 00:40:22.019
I like Dahlia.

629
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:25.980
I think she's often overlooked for Chancellor Flavia, but I like her.

630
00:40:26.039 --> 00:40:27.840
Did they try and get Thalia back?

631
00:40:27.900 --> 00:40:29.460
they tried to get everyone back, didn't they?

632
00:40:29.579 --> 00:40:33.000
They did try to get Elsbeth Gray back for the 5 doctors.

633
00:40:33.059 --> 00:40:36.000
She may have even been shooting Black Adder at that time because that was 1983.

634
00:40:36.119 --> 00:40:36.539
Okay.

635
00:40:36.539 --> 00:40:38.519
But yeah, she wasn't available to come back.

636
00:40:38.579 --> 00:40:44.099
Yeah, I think it's just horrible how in the in the high council scene where they're arguing with Nissa.

637
00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:48.960
She gets some really good lines about, you know, the morality of the situation of what would you have us do?

638
00:40:48.960 --> 00:40:50.579
And it's all in bloody long shot.

639
00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:52.440
Give us Elspeth Gray's face.

640
00:40:52.500 --> 00:40:53.880
She's brilliant.

641
00:40:53.940 --> 00:40:57.480
Yeah, in the end, just massive, massive missed opportunity.

642
00:40:57.539 --> 00:40:59.820
A series of continuing disappointments.

643
00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:27.059
Well, as we take off from Amsterdam, Hopefully, nothing in our luggage that'll be too embarrassing to get through customs.

644
00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:35.940
We'll be back next week where we'll be talking about the sequel to last season's critically acclaimed Kinder with Snake Dance.

645
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:44.099
Until then, you can find us on our new website, flatthrough entirety.sexy, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter.

646
00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:46.260
Over on Bondfinger.

647
00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:51.960
We currently have all the Bond films commentated up to and including the spy who loved me.

648
00:41:52.019 --> 00:41:56.639
Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and Bond Finger cast on Twitter.

649
00:41:56.699 --> 00:42:03.179
Today on YouTube, you can find Doctor Who in 10 seconds season six.

650
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So that's gone up and seasons one to 5 are also available.

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But until next week, thank you very much for listening.

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And may none of your giant chicken heads look like an ergon.

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Thank you very much for listening and good night.

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Good night. see you soon That was Flight through Entirety, starting Todd Building, Nathan Bottomley, and Brendan Jones.

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Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

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This episode, sofas all around Gallifrey, was recorded on the 26th of July 2016.

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The next episode will be released on the 7th of August.

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Fans of things resolved by the hero just shooting the villain with a big gun will also enjoy attack of the cybermen, the invasion of time, and the entire sociopolitical system of the United States of America.

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Okay. so much.

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Okay, I'll do the out train now.