Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to this 20th anniversary
season of Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast you
would quite happily bivouac down for the night with Alastair
coming.
Have you seen him in the making of, oh my god.
I'm Brendan.
I'm Nathan.
And I'm back, and I'm not impressed.
Yeah, I think there's going to be quite a lot of that as we delve
into the arc of infinity.
So, if I may start, I would like to tell a little story about
1994.
So there was a run of stories that my father hadn't recorded in
the 1980s, so roughly from Black Orchid, through to the King's
Demons.
We didn't have any of those on videotape.
So none of season 20.
Todd's looking jealous, actually, as you tell this story.
So during the 1994 repeat season, we recorded those, an Arc of
Infinity Wars, this mythic story, you know, it was a time lord
story, and Omega was back, and Colin Baker was in it, and I knew
he would become the doctor later, and I heard he shoots the doctor
in this one, and how did he survive that and regenerate later?
Oh my god, yeah, tiny little 11 year old mind blown at this
stage.
And I have to say that when my father recorded it at 4 AM and I
was watching it would, then when I got home from school, I'd watch
each episode after dinner and what have you.
I was so impressed by this, and I loved the omega design, and we
were back on Gallifrey, and, you know, Nissa got to run around
with a gun, and we're in this strange place called Amsterdam.
I'd never heard of.
You know how JNT says the memory cheats.
I think there is no story more emblematic of that sentiment for
me.
Well, I loved it. thought it was terrific.
What, this time round?
No I'm lying.
I didn't want to say it was tiresome again.
Can I just say something?
Oh yeah.
This is tiresome.
My lawyers will be in touch with you.
You know, after enduring the last story.
Which is the worst story in the history of Doctor Who minus one
out of 10 as an aside, if you watch this back to back, I think
this comes off better.
But, you know, I really feel for Johnny Byrne in the fact that
it's like this shopping list of things that he's required to do.
You've got to have omega, right?
Because they want to bring him back.
No regard to the original writers.
They only found out at a convention that Omega was back after the
fact, you know, it's this casual regard to the history of Doctor
Who in writing that is part of this production team.
And Bob Baker and Dave Martin deserved better.
They deserve much, but you know, perhaps a bit better than that.
Never thought you'd hear that on this podcast, too, listen.
You then got to say, well, you've got to set it in Amsterdam.
You've got to come up with a resolution to the whole Tegan
cliffhanger, but you can't have her in episode one.
You know, it's just, and what is so frustrating, and you find this
out on the DVD.
On the DVD, they have a quick sort of 12 line rundown of Johnny
Burns original...
That wasn't Alfie.
The 1st thing that's incredibly frustrating.
You know, this is sort of turtles all the way down version of
frustrating.
But Johnny Burns' original plotline for this, the time of Nieman
is so much better.
Was that Proctor Nieman?
He was back and he was angry.
Is that it?
That's right Well, the idea of the enemy taking the doctor's form
is kind of the only thing that survives from Johnny Burton's
original script that in the Amsterdam setting, because that was
put upon him.
But the idea of the time of Niemann was you have this force called
the Avatar, which takes the name of Niemann, but takes the
doctor's form, invades Earth in 1983 sets himself up as the head
of a conglomerate, which sort of strip minds the planet.
And so Tegan is in modern day Amsterdam.
And the doctor and Nissa are in Amsterdam 200 years from now where
the timeline's been changed.
And so they have to come back and investigate and that's where
they meet up with Tegan and da da da.
But the reason that the villain has the doctor's form is because
this entity takes the form of someone when they are at their
weakest.
And because of the doctor's interference in the plot and actions
in the plot, Neiman becomes aware of the doctor and realises his
weakest point was recently when he dropped off a radio telescope
tower.
And so he steals the doctor's form at that point, you know, makes
a copy of it at that point because he's at his weakest.
So the climax of the story, which isn't heavily detailed in the
plot outline, but the climax of the story would have taken place
during the regeneration.
So they would have used stock footage and put in Peter Davidson
from afar watching and fighting Neiman while there were
generations going on.
It would have just been this incredibly multi-layered complex
plot.
And of course, Johnny Byrne is most famous for Space 1999 in sci
fi circles, on which he was one of the story editors and one of
the scriptwriters.
And that concept has a lot in common with some season one, space
1999, such as force of life springs to mind.
And we get this.
Yeah, it's really terrible, isn't it?
You know, Johnny Byrne did a great job.
I think we all agreed with Keeper of Trunk, and but that's also
improved by the fact that they changed it into the master.
Well, no, but what I mean by a great job is that he created some
really interesting characters.
It's still a sort of court drama.
There's still sort of important people around, but you've got
people like Luvic and Ceron and cassia and couture.
Like all of those are really well drawn characters.
Here you've got people with horrifically stupid 2 syllable science
fiction names.
I cannot forgive Cardinal Zora.
That is just the worst thing ever.
But Cardinal Zorak has no personality traits of any kind.
He's just a, you know, fool in a stupid car.
Can I just interrupt you there?
Like, I can't even remember his name.
Like every time we get to this story.
Like, I was sitting there and it's like, my old friend, Counsellor
Hedden.
Oh, my old friend Barusa.
Oh, it's Thalia.
Oh, it's the Castellan.
Oh, it's my old friend Damon.
It's the Kestellan's door, bitch, and then there's the other one.
That guy.
2011.
I was living in the UK and doing a lot of work with Planet Scara
Audios, who I'd mentioned before.
We just had a recording that day and then I think we watched a
good man goes to war.
And we decided afterwards.
You know, we've still got some wine.
Let's watch some old bad Doctor Who and record some commentaries.
So we did Nightmare of Eden and that was fine. actually quite
good.
It's actually quite good.
We got quite drunk.
Then once we were quite drunk.
We watched Arc of infinity.
You see, this was my 1st inkling I had that the story was
terrible.
Cardinal Zorak.
What's his job?
You know, the Castellan's in charge of security.
The president is the president, heads there to be the traitor.
Thalia knows about pulse loops.
It's the very thing.
Fetch it.
What's Cardinals or Rex job?
Now, we were puzzling over this question.
And then we started noticing increasingly.
There are sofas all around Galafre, just in the middle of
corridors, at tea junctions in front of lifts.
And so I decided, and I'm going to swear a lot less this time.
Cardinal Zorak is in charge of sofas, and that's why he puts them
everywhere because he knows it's a useless job, but by God, he's
going to do it.
Is it a pub on Galifre or a cafe that they're all sitting around?
It's a cafe.
Someone's wearing rodens, travelling gear.
Someone's wearing the archmandrite's cloak.
It's so bad Nobody cares.
I hate Gallifrey.
Like, I really hate Gallifrey. was really glad that Russell
destroyed it.
It's awful.
But here it's really, really awful.
And they've exchanged those fantastically gothic glass corridors
and things that we had in Deadly Assassin, which I thought were
really effective while still being a bit sort of science fiction-y
with horrible 80s foil wallpaper.
But it's also, I find, so sterile.
It's just very blocky.
Everything's just like, um, there's no curves, like, except for
the sofa, it's just, I kept thinking of you, Nathan, throughout
this entire podcast, about every time we come back to Galafre, it
gets that little bit worse.
And, you know, right at the beginning, like with the traitor.
Like, we have to go into, like, I really do feel for Michael Goff
who, I think, does a wonderful job as Hidden, but we have to have
the mood lighting and sort of disguising his voice a bit, but then
he has to have his swizzle stick, which becomes this one that just
gets more and more over the top as the whole thing goes through.
It's the only acting he can do.
We can't see his face.
So he's doing slide rule acting.
But you know, I hear I hear Gallifrey.
I hear antimatter, and I get that spidey, tingly sense, and then
it just goes, I mean, this whole story is just a series of
continual disappointments.
It builds up a bit and I think, oh, yes, yes, yes.
Halfway through the story.
It's like, Omega wants control of the Matrix, but nowhere in this
story, we told why that's a bad thing.
It's the worst word peril cliffhanger ever, isn't it?
That episode 3 cliffhanger where it's omega has control of the
matrix and you just think, who bloody cares?
So what?
You know, what they do is they get the entire premise of the
entire show wrong.
So the show is about, you know, Moffatt says, a madman in a box.
It's about the doctor with some companions travelling and having
adventures in space and time.
But whoever's making the show at the moment now thinks it's a
story about a galifrean from the constellation of Casterberus
whose planet has transduction barriers and the matrix and like all
of these sort of callbacks to really uninteresting elements from
the invasion of time.
Yeah, yeah.
The thing the thing is with this is that we here in Australia have
seen like the invasion of time and the 3 doctors repeated quite a
lot.
People in the UK haven't had this.
And it's supposed to be, you know, JNT's making out like there's
all these things coming back for the 20th anniversary, but if
you're a casual viewer, you'd be sitting there going, what the
hell is this?
Like, it's really just for people who really know Doctor Who?
There's just so much to stop you from getting involved, going
what's this technical gobbly-gook?
Well, even Omega, I think, is essentially the same thing.
You know, I think he'd been repeated recently in the 5 faces of
Doctor Who.
So he had at least been on television in the last couple of
years.
But, you know, it's not explained who he is or what happened
before, you know, any of that.
And all of the good things about Omega, particularly that thing
that wonderful thing, that he doesn't exist anymore because he's
been eroded away.
He's got no head.
And now he's back in a costume that's worse than I really love the
3 doctors one and I hate this costume.
He just sits.
He just sits for 3 episodes.
My God.
The thing I really don't understand about the omega costume is
when Doctor Who brings back monsters in this era, they usually try
to make a pretty good effort to keep the recognisable elements.
Like when the Solurians and the sea devils come back next year.
Because of various production problems, they're not hugely
successful.
But the designs are instantly recognisable.
Oh, do you know, I didn't recognise them when I 1st saw the
trailer for Warriors in the team.
I think.
Yeah.
Well, I don't think I was that familiar with the Silurians back
then anyway, but they also had sort of space robot voices as
well.
That's true.
They did change the voices.
But that's the thing.
Omega had that brilliant mask, which I think I'm right, was
designed by James Atchison, who went on to win Oscar Awards.
And he's won the Jenny Layd Award. he's won the Gen.
But there is nothing wrong with that design.
You couldn't even really say, oh, it's 270s.
It's like, well, no, it wasn't, okay, glitter cape, maybe.
But bring back that same design or recreate it somehow.
But you know why they can't, don't you?
Because the reveal that it's omega is something that they think is
a big and interesting thing.
So if it looked like Omega all along. you know, then that wouldn't
work.
And then they reveal that it's only, except that that's a really
boring revelation because virtually no one at home cares.
And the thing is, there's a perfect opportunity to explain it
because Nissa could actually say, who's Omega?
That would make sense because, of course, Nessa's not going to
know who Omega is, and it's not a moment of, well, as you well
know.
Nissa would actually be able to have a bit at the top of episode
four, because I think it's the end of episode 3 where they
actually reveal its omega.
At the top of episode 4 going, what the hell is going on?
Instead, we get that scene in the TARDIS where the doctor's like
I'm building an antimatter detector.
Look at this, it goes buzz.
Yeah, they love scenes of people building things, don't they?
And the pulse loop thing.
Oh, looking at a flashing button.
I mean, how boring can it get?
Oh, the word peril in episode 4 is terrible because it's just like
we're running down this street in Amsterdam, but we need to get to
the point where we're running down this street in Amsterdam.
Let's come back to everyone on Gallifrey looking at a flashing
bulb.
And of course, that whole scene is sold by the worst actor in the
history of Doctor Who, which is the lord president, the worst
peruser.
I don't even know what that man's name is, but he retired from
acting like 20 years ago.
He's insufferable.
Oh, oh, it's Mr. Lisser of Tracam in episode three.
He stumbles through lines.
God, I wish the test line, whoever shot headed and shot him.
I hoped, but my memory cheated.
Oh, he's terrible.
And the moustache, what's with the moustache?
awful.
I think it's his.
Yeah, terrible.
If there was ever a case of spontaneous combustion.
Eurusa should have regenerated, looked in the mirror and gone, oh
well, this is a bust and just regenerated straight away.
He is just a palling.
Yeah, yeah.
Did they try and get him back for 5 doctors or did they just think
they did?
God, they failed.
Because he was in a big show at the time called The Palaces.
Okay.
He was the big name cast for this, him and Elspeth Gray, who was
Thalia.
Who was the psychiatrist in Fulty Towers, and is Black Hatter's
mother in the first...
He's in a Black Hatter.
But where is Barusa's acerbic wit and charm that the 1st 2
Barusa's hat?
The 1st 2 perusas are really terrific.
The 2 are terrible.
Well, I don't agree with that.
I really like the one in the 5 doctors quite a lot.
I think he's got a menace and there's just something off about him
that I think works really well.
This one is just pathetic.
You've got that scene with the High Council, which is appallingly
directed by Ron Jones.
Is Ron Jones with this story?
I look at it, and it's like, like, imagine a window in a
department store where you've got people sitting like mannequins
like in a row, and then you've got the Christmas chair where Santa
Claus is sitting at a right angle to that.
That's the bloody scene.
And I'm just thinking, is this pathetic?
pinned to their seats?
I mean, look at what Dahlia is wearing.
She looks like the queen of hearts from...
Wonderland. like with that small thing and the big huge skirt.
I mean, I really like her, I think she does a good job.
Yeah, she is.
And, you know, I think Heden does a good job and well, Zorak
Zorak.
You've got the Catalan being a bitch.
You've got, he's such a bitch to, to, um, well, his door bitch who
seems to be guarding the door on the doctor all of the time.
And I guess I'm talking about the door, bitch now, so I talk about
Colin Baker.
It's really funny.
Like, you know, there's some characters you remember in Doctor
Who.
Like you remember Cassia, or you remember.
Madge.
You remember Madge from Black Orchid?
You do.
I remember reading in the 20th anniversary special, like obviously
Colin was announced as the doctor and he was in Arc infinity and I
went, Well, what did he do in Ark of infinity?
Do you know, it's really funny, but when I was watching it for the
podcast, I actually went, 0 my God, that's right.
Colin Baker's in this.
I'd completely forgotten.
Well, I actually like his performance.
Yeah, me too.
But the character just disappears.
Yes.
Yeah, he disappears in episode three.
He just walks down a corridor.
There is a missing scene of him from episode 4 on the DVD.
I have to say of all the guest cast, I think Colin gives the best
performance.
That's probably fair.
Yeah.
And that's not damning with faint brains.
It's actually a good performance.
Not only that, I can clearly see the difference in his
characterisation of Maxwell from his characterisation of the
doctor.
I can clearly accept them as different characters.
It's not like, say, Princess Astra and Romana, Romana 2.
Now that's not a slight on Lala Ward at all, but I just found the
way she played the 2 characters quite similar in some ways.
Oh no, I thought they were quite different.
I think Princess Astro is a kind of posh idiot in a way in a way
that Romana isn't.
But I actually suspect that Maxill is the 6th doctor and that he
heads off, you know, like he goes to Titan 3 and loses a whole
bunch of weight and then travels, you know, back in time, you know
in order to shoot Pete and just kind of mess with him.
Yeah, yeah.
You know that that whole thing in Doctor Who series 9 with the
girl who lived, where the doctor figures out, this is why I have
this face to tell me to save people.
My reaction to that is, well, what was Maxwell, you know?
The doctor regenerates into Maxwell.
Look out, you're gonna try and kill yourself.
Lo and behold, the valiard turns up.
So he's right, you know, there's an actual warning there. shooting
people.
So we've got, I think it's a pathetic cliffhanger.
Sort of like, okay, shoot the doctor.
Peter Davidson lies down for 2 seconds, gets up.
Like, I just think they're going, could it be a stun gun, do you
think?
Do you know what I mean?
Like you're there?
Like he's been shot?
Well, it's just possible that that was a stunt gun?
If I can say, well, we know it's not an impulse laser.
But all you know what?
I'm going to say this.
The 1st 2 episodes of this story.
Sarah Sutton finally gets gumption and something to do.
She has rapport with Damon, they make a wonderful team.
The moment you give Missa a court setting, a gun, an omission.
She's fantastic.
Yeah, she's really, really good.
And her scenes with the High Council when she's like really upset
with them and showing real emotions.
She cries at the end of episode two.
I think there's a bit of glycerine there.
Well, I think she's deeply distressed.
The doctor is dead.
Tegan has left.
Adric is dead.
Her world is dead.
She is alone on this planet.
I think she really sells it, and I think she's really, really
good.
Do you think she's, like, anticipating the next few decades of
having to hang out in that cafe on Teliframe?
her only kind of social outlet.
Possibly, because, you see, I think she should sue John Nathan
Turner for the way in which this character has just been totally
underused the entire time and it's going to continue over the next
few weeks as well.
They should have left on in the TARDIS up until the 5 doctors.
She should have gone up into Gallifre and met Damon again and done
something, and then they should have said, well, we're going to
get married, and they should have had a marriage at the end of the
5 doctors between Nissa and Damon, and, you know, I can write this
crap.
No, the doctor would have been so jealous.
Damon's his old boyfriend.
He left, obviously.
But I'm just saying, like, you know, she, the glimpses that you're
getting this of what she could do.
And then the moment Tegan turns back up and they're back together
as a team, she becomes the 3rd wheel.
Tegan gets the lines and she gets one every so often. just so
distressing.
Speaking of people turning up with their boyfriends, of course
we've got Colin and Robin, who they're absolutely not a couple, are
they?
Do you know, there's a scene where Colin's a bit freaked out about
being in the crypt or is it Robin?
Which one?
Colin is Tegan's cousin.
And he's freaked out about being in the crypt.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so Robin is trying to encourage him to take his clothes off.
And he refuses to do that because he might want to leg it in case
Robin kind of comes onto it in the night or something.
Well, at least take your boots off.
Yes, please do.
Oh my goodness.
Can I just say something here?
Like, actually, that Crip stuff freaked me out as a kid.
Yeah, like, I really, really creepy.
I really did.
Until the ergon comes in.
Can I just say that ergon is so crap and it's such a toothless
wonder?
Here you've got the cousin of Tegan.
They're not going to kill the cousin of Tegan. 18 months ago, an
Australian woman went missing and her aunt was killed.
She turns up a year later, is there an investigation into what
happened?
If the cousin goes missing and she suddenly turns up in Amsterdam
is there a connection?
It's not like in a year's time, another one of her family is going
to go missing at all.
So she's like murdering all of her extended family.
Exactly.
But hold on, does that make Colin Auntie Vanessa's son?
And that's why Tegan's coming to visit him.
So while you've been off backpacking.
I'm afraid your mum's been shrunk down to the size of an action
man.
She's not actually an action man.
Don't look too closely at the model, but yeah.
Hi.
No, I'm sure it's from another side of the family.
I'm almost certain.
So he gets abducted by the erg on the ergon comes in, it clearly
can't see the poor actor inside, it can't see.
And it sort of shoots Colin and because Omega is reluctant to get
up from his chair for 3 episodes, he press gangs Colin into
pressing all those buttons for him.
Is that it?
Yeah, the weird thing is in the script, like once he comes through
to our universe, Omega is meant to be sort of paralysed in that
chair because if he moves, it'll cause an antimatter explosion.
Except for that bit.
In episode three, I think it is, where he comes to the door to
interrogate Tegan.
You know?
Is that the scene where he's standing next to an ergon and they're
in a 2 shot and the ergon is looking around?
I've been planning to use that for no publicise this episode, but
the trust your doctor boys have already used it because it is just
the stupidest looking thing. of 1980s Doctor Who.
See, the problem with the ergon.
It was designed to look like alien and Geiger kind of designed.
But the head was made as a hat to sit on top of the actor's egg.
So the problem is the slightest movement he makes, the whole thing
wobbles like a curious chicken.
Yeah, no it looks like a chicken.
I think there was in DWM a short story one time where Ace was
working at Kentucky Fried Chicken and the Ergon came in and she
thought that it was like Barry who works with a, you know, his
costume.
And I think friend of the podcast, Peter McTire, had a theory that
rather than being one of Omega's less successful attempts at
psychogenesis, what Omega actually does is employ people to wear
increasingly crap and unconvincing monster costumes.
So that's the gel guards explained and now the ergon.
Like, we don't even get the gel guards. don't even get some fake
reality.
We just get that stupid web thing that makes Tegan go wibbly
wobbly.
That looks ridiculous.
I mean, those scenes are stupid.
That's meant to be the matrix.
But back to the ergon and its inability to kill anybody.
I do laugh every single time anybody gets shot and goes, ah, and
changes into negative and out of negative.
And then, of course, you know, when Colin comes back and he's
doing all of his work for Omega.
The look that he's given, it reminds me of a 1980 sort of video
clip, you know, with that red under the eyes.
But you know how they got him into that sort of situation.
They actually...
Copious amounts of drugs.
Well, that, and that was after, they said, we're just going to put
you in this room for a moment.
We're just going to show you a bit of old Doctor Who.
And within 15 minutes, he was like screaming at the walls and they
had to turn off time flight.
And, you know, they had to then go for the take.
I thought they might have sat Gary Downey by his bed and he got
Gary Downey to like poke him with a stick every 15 minutes so that
he was suffering from sleep deprivation during those scenes.
And then he found out it wasn't a stick and that's why his jaws
dropped.
Okay.
Where are we at?
I think I think maybe I should mention some bigs I like about
this.
No, I'm not finished with hate.
I'm not finished with the hat.
Yeah, but I think we should interperse it, you know, like an
apparative.
As I've already said, I think Colin is wonderful in this.
Colin Baker.
Where is he?
Although I will say for gentlemen of a certain persuasion and
ladies of a certain persuasion as well, check out the making of
Alastair coming has grown into quite an attractive man, whereas he
used to be a stick insect.
He's got a kind of 80s look to him where he is sort of good
looking.
The 2 of them remind me of the people from K9 and Company, you
know, Brendan and that...
Oh, the other one.
Yeah, the Peter jacket.
Peter.
Yeah, yeah. where maybe if you squint sort of, one of them's good
looking and the other's sort of birdlike and bizarre looking.
There's a lovely moment in the making of where Alastair coming is
talking about the ergon and says, so the ergon came in to shoot me
and he raised the gunwale.
Well, maybe she raised the gun.
I don't know.
Ergon. sex indeterminate.
And there's something about the way he says sex indeterminate that
just makes my knees a little bit wobbly.
I'm about to go into negative again.
Can I say something positive?
Yeah, you say something positive.
It happens rarely.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So the 1st time I ever went to Europe.
I visited London and then caught a ferry from Harwich to the Hook
of Holland and drove to Amsterdam.
And so Amsterdam is the 1st European city that I've ever been to.
And I think I've been there 3 times now.
And I think maybe I've spent a total of a month there and I
absolutely adore Amsterdam.
It's so beautiful.
And so watching the location stuff and there's altogether too
little of it is really, really great.
Like I really like it.
And in particular, I think the location stuff in episode 4 works
really well.
Instead of a lot of people talking about the matrix and quad
magnetism and all of those just deadly, deadly, uninteresting
things.
Episode 4 is a chase.
Only has escaped.
He looks like the doctor.
We know that he'll explode everything.
It's a very straightforward and understandable thing and they
chase after him and I just think it works really, really well.
Do you think they use the location well?
In that episode?
And I think because now they're telling a straightforward story
instead of a lot of people in space costumes standing around in
space corridors talking about space threats, we just have a
chase.
And there's even a scene where a really off-putting looking child
smiles at Omica when they're standing in front of a hurdy-gurdy.
And the scene's a little bit cringeworthy, but there's an attempt
to give Omega a little bit of humanity and to make us feel a
little bit of sympathy for him.
And I think that that's really good.
I think that's the only good thing about the story.
No, but those children are wearing the most hideous show.
Oh yeah, they're very off-putting looking children. and they're
not even from the Doctor Who pattern book.
But watching these people watch this Hedigo thing is so boring.
It is corny and kind of cliche, but it's a nice little moment in a
story that has so little humanity to it.
Peter's five, 10 minutes is omega.
He's really really good.
I mean, especially that bit in the studio where he's being dubbed
by Ian Collier, so it's not even his voice.
So he has to do it all with the face.
And again, he manages to delineate the performance successfully
just by tensing his face muscles, slightly playing it with a bit
of a sneer.
But I think importantly, and he did have trouble making sure he
matched the tempo of being Colliers prerecorded lines.
But it's kind of like a drag queen.
They're a dragon.
Yeah, and there are drag queens who lip sync really well and put
emotion into it and there are drag queens who just move their
lips.
Peter Davidson is drag queen who puts emotion into it.
I love to see that.
Well, there's pretty much that episode of the Tomorrow people
isn't it?
That's almost it.
I've been to Amsterdam as well, just once.
And I stayed with friends.
And I did explain to them that while I was there, I wanted to go
looking for certain locations.
And yeah, I went and found Frank and Dahl and what have you.
But naturally they were curious.
It's like, why?
And I said, oh, well, have you heard a doctor?
And they said, oh yeah, we've heard of it. not big here, but we
have heard of it.
I said, well, they filmed there once.
Oh, you must bring it with you.
Oh, dear.
And this was before I'd recorded that commentary where I realised
how terrible it was.
So I said, yes, I'll bring it with me, and then after we recorded
that commentary, I'm like, oh, no, I have to take this and show it
to my friends in Amsterdam.
So we sat down and watched it.
They were hooting with laughter.
They hated Nissa.
Oh, they hated Nisa because she didn't shoot enough people.
Like, that bit where she throws away a gun.
Tim's just screaming at the scream.
No, shoot them, shoot the ball.
And then when she screamed at the Irkov, they're like, oh, can't
we just kill her?
And they didn't much care for Tegan.
But at the end of episode 3 where the doctor says, oh, look, it
controls the Matrix and the credits come up, they just turned to
me and said, what does that mean?
Yeah.
Is that bad?
And I said, I don't know.
I honestly don't know.
It must have been bad because it was the cliffhanger, but it is
the worst word peril cliffhanger ever, apart from in a couple of
stories.
So when you went to Amsterdam, did you then go into any youth
hostels and talk to the receptionist and they couldn't give you
directions?
So they just happened to talk to the person that could give you
directions that just happened to be on there at the same time at
the same day.
Oh my goodness.
She was just coming off her shift. was all.
But it's just so convenient.
I mean, for our younger listeners, obviously this is the time
before internet, a time before a lot of computers.
So everything was just written down in books and that sort of
thing.
But, you know, them in the convenience of having that receptionist
there at that time just so they could give them the message.
I just rolled my eyes going, oh, please let this be over.
Yeah, it would have actually been better if she had just been the
receptionist there when the doctor and Nissa come in.
Simple.
She's been rostered on 2 days in a row, but instead we've got this
fake out of, oh, if only the right person was there.
Hooray, she is.
It's like, Episode 4 was already overrunning.
They had to cut about 5 minutes out of it, and you keep that in.
Now, Taken.
It's very funny.
In episode one, of course, Colin is Australian, and the moment
that that's mentioned, like, you know, I get the Spidey sense
going, oh, why is he Australian?
And then they talk about the cousin, it's sort of like, you know
I'm mourning the loss of Tegan from like the week before.
And so it's sort of like, ooh, and then she turns up, like
obviously in episode two.
What do we think of her reintroduction?
I really like her hair.
I really like that she's wearing a different outfit.
I don't like the outfit very much.
I think it makes her bum look huge.
Yeah, Janet hates the outfit.
It's really baggy.
It's not very attractive.
I think the way she puts it is.
Yeah, it makes the bum look huge and makes the front look flat.
Yeah, you know, it's not good.
It's a really strange choice of outfit to put her in.
As for her return, I think she has moved the character on a bit
you know, because her through line in season 19 was the stress of
not being able to get back to her job and we find out in this
story that she's lost her job.
So she plays the role with less stress.
I think she's really good in season 20 generally.
I haven't watched it all the way through in preparation, but I'm
about halfway through.
And I've been really impressed with Jadet.
And, you know, think back to that sort of Panto kids show acting
she was doing. yeah, really early on And now she's actually quite
likeable.
And I made no secret of the fact that I adored Tegan when I 1st
watched it when she was 1st on it. she was just terrific.
She's not so great in season 18 and 19, but she's really nailed it
by now.
She's still strong.
She still doesn't put up with any nonsense.
She still has all of those sort of basic characteristics that the
character is supposed to have, but she downplays it so much more.
I think she's really likeable.
Yeah, there's a big change, and I've commented before that I think
in Black Orchard, once she gets drunk.
In that whole story, there's a huge change.
The character from that point on, it's so much better.
And here again, it's another subtle changes and it's really good.
I give this story like about 5 out of 10 and I think that's been
generous. very But I give it a whole bonus mark more for the
ending.
The moment she's...
No, honestly, I just laugh my head off the moment she says, I've
lost my job.
You know, you're stuck with me or whatever.
And this is a static and then Peter just sells that moment so well
that that smile and that grin and then the horrible realisation
that she's back.
You know, it's that quarter of a second.
It's at 5 frames before the end credits cut in that his face just
drops.
It is such a good moment.
No, look, I agree with you, Todd.
I think this story, it's not bad.
It's not insulting to our intelligence.
It's just boring.
I don't care about any of the supporting characters, including
Omega, and you know, I cared about the Stephen Thorn Omega.
He had an emotional journey, let's say.
You know, he had emotional development.
The closest thing I come to carry about a character is Maxwell.
And it's kind of like, well, the problem is you'd never want
Maxwell to succeed.
But at the same time, you really like the performance and you
really like the character.
You know, when the De Castan actually chews him out for not doing
his job and threatens to replace him.
I think you get a bit of understanding about why he's like he is.
He has to work for this bitch.
I dislike Castellan, and I don't know why everyone's so unpleasant
to the doctor when they're going to execute him.
You'd think they'd make him a lovely meal and be super nice to him
and say, sorry, old chap, but it's just so we're going to get rid
of you.
And then on just like a pivot point, they just change their minds
like, boom, they just, oh, well, you know, we'll help you now.
Yeah, this whole story, the whole story hinges on the time lords
not being very nice.
And I know that sounds weak, but Omega somehow contacts Hedden and
Hedden agrees to give him the technology to move back into this
universe.
And it's like, you know what, Headen, mate?
You're on the High Council.
You got the presidency here.
Why not walk in and say, I've heard from Omega and I've got a
theory to bring him back and you know, he'll be back and he'll be
able to work with us.
And the lord president in the 3 doctors seemed reluctant to kill
Omega, and Barusa here doesn't seem too bloodthirsty.
It's all about the antimatter.
So, you know, if Edna just said, hey, let's everyone work
together.
They wouldn't have needed subterfuge.
And again, as you say with the doctor, it's like, let's recall
him.
Let's not tell him what it's about.
Let's lock him up.
Let's chase him with guards.
Zorik's like every time he returns, there's violence.
It's the ultimate stop hitting yourself.
Maybe it's a satire of 80s office culture.
If only the different departments talk to each other.
And, you know, I'm sure Richard will sympathise with this if only
the different departments talk to each other.
Okay, we wouldn't have a story, but we'd have a better outcome.
Yeah, well, all of that stuff about Omega is just completely
absent from this story and he's just the name of a bad guy played
by Ian Collier.
You were right.
There is something about Omega.
If Gallifrey were a properly mythic place.
Moffatt gets this right.
We've been back to Galifre in the new series and it's a huge event
and it looks mythic and impressive.
It's not just a bunch of space corridors with foiled wallpaper.
And the reason that Gammafray is mythic and impressive is because
Omega sacrificed his life and was abandoned and all of that stuff
that made him interesting, even though he was written by Bob Baker
and Dave Martin, is completely absent here, he's just generic bad
guy.
It's what's the point of bringing him back at all if you're not
going to bring back any of the things that actually define his
character.
It's not a bad story, like Black Hawk.
The Black Orchid is a bad story, and I mean morally as well as in
terms of quality.
But this is just...
No, I think this is much worse than bad than bad orchid.
Is that what it's called?
I think it's much worse than that.
I agree.
It's time flight levels of bad.
I think this is a run of 8 episodes that really have absolutely
nothing going for them.
You know, you've got Eric Saywood script editing.
Eight episodes of conscriminating, and it's just awful.
And it's directed by Ron Jones, who's just awful.
The weird thing is, and you know, I say last week, I quite like
Time Flight.
But Time Flight and Arc of Infinity are both written by very good
sci-fi writers.
You know, people who write very good sci-fi concepts and we'll see
again in a couple of weeks with Peter Grimwade, what he can do
with a good sci-fi concept.
But you know, Johnny Byrne, he wrote real, if you like real world
drama as well, like drama set in the real world.
But Space 1999.
He was a huge force behind space 1999 year one, which wasn't
always successful, but always had interesting ideas and executed
them interestingly.
What's also interesting?
The show comes back to just over 7000000 viewers for this season.
Now last year it averaged 9 million.
Right. 2000000 people have decided not to tune in in the 20th
year.
Do you know I was one of them.
I think I said that before.
I didn't tune in to Arc of Infinity, episode one because I was so
annoyed about Tegan being left behind in time flight.
It was really distressing.
I found that really distressing after Adrick's death to have that
happen on top of that.
But at the beginning of the last story.
Time flight, episode one got 10 million, right?
26th on the chart.
After that, Doctor Who never gets over 9000000 again.
By the end of that story, they're down to 8.one.
They've dropped another 1000000 here.
You know, there's, I've got a theory here.
You know, there's fans of a certain age who are about 5 years
older than me.
I really hate Adrick and hated Adrick at the time and you see it
in all the commentaries about how we didn't like this teenage
boy.
The ones that are a bit younger, perhaps around my age, were kids
and Adric dies, and he's a kid.
And they didn't like that.
And so the kids aren't tuning...
Well, I've just made that up on the spot, but I'm just saying
they're not tuning in and we've now lost 3000000 viewers in the
space of 5 episodes.
Yeah.
And the thing is, if the 10-year-old child of a family is not
tuning into Doctor Who, that's 3 or 4 people who aren't watching.
Because mum and dad aren't watching.
Gran's not watching.
Granddad's not watching the older siblings who wouldn't normally
watch by themselves, but watch because their younger brother or
sister enjoys it.
They're not watching.
So you have another impact in 3 or 4 years time.
I think you're onto something there, Todd.
Are we done with this thing yet?
just want to move on.
I just want to give you the impression of how good it could have
been.
What, a different director, a different cast and a different
script?
Well, a different cast.
Considered for the role of Maxwell was Pierce Brosnan.
Considered for the role of Thalia.
Linda Bellingham, Anna Blackman, and Jenny Lindon.
Barbara from Doctor Who and the Daleks.
Let's consider it for Dahlia.
I like Dahlia.
I think she's often overlooked for Chancellor Flavia, but I like
her.
Did they try and get Thalia back?
they tried to get everyone back, didn't they?
They did try to get Elsbeth Gray back for the 5 doctors.
She may have even been shooting Black Adder at that time because
that was 1983.
Okay.
But yeah, she wasn't available to come back.
Yeah, I think it's just horrible how in the in the high council
scene where they're arguing with Nissa.
She gets some really good lines about, you know, the morality of
the situation of what would you have us do?
And it's all in bloody long shot.
Give us Elspeth Gray's face.
She's brilliant.
Yeah, in the end, just massive, massive missed opportunity.
A series of continuing disappointments.
Well, as we take off from Amsterdam, Hopefully, nothing in our
luggage that'll be too embarrassing to get through customs.
We'll be back next week where we'll be talking about the sequel to
last season's critically acclaimed Kinder with Snake Dance.
Until then, you can find us on our new website, flatthrough
entirety.sexy, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and
FTE podcast on Twitter.
Over on Bondfinger.
We currently have all the Bond films commentated up to and
including the spy who loved me.
Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and Bond Finger
cast on Twitter.
Today on YouTube, you can find Doctor Who in 10 seconds season
six.
So that's gone up and seasons one to 5 are also available.
But until next week, thank you very much for listening.
And may none of your giant chicken heads look like an ergon.
Thank you very much for listening and good night.
Good night. see you soon That was Flight through Entirety, starting
Todd Building, Nathan Bottomley, and Brendan Jones.
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.
This episode, sofas all around Gallifrey, was recorded on the 26th
of July 2016.
The next episode will be released on the 7th of August.
Fans of things resolved by the hero just shooting the villain with
a big gun will also enjoy attack of the cybermen, the invasion of
time, and the entire sociopolitical system of the United States of
America.
Okay. so much.
Okay, I'll do the out train now.