WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 16:19:16 1 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:34.140 Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to this 20th anniversary 2 00:00:34.140 --> 00:00:37.799 season of Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast you 3 00:00:37.799 --> 00:00:40.020 would quite happily bivouac down for the night with Alastair 4 00:00:40.020 --> 00:00:40.439 coming. 5 00:00:40.500 --> 00:00:42.719 Have you seen him in the making of, oh my god. 6 00:00:42.780 --> 00:00:43.439 I'm Brendan. 7 00:00:43.500 --> 00:00:44.340 I'm Nathan. 8 00:00:44.399 --> 00:00:46.799 And I'm back, and I'm not impressed. 9 00:00:47.820 --> 00:00:51.780 Yeah, I think there's going to be quite a lot of that as we delve 10 00:00:51.780 --> 00:00:53.820 into the arc of infinity. 11 00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:13.620 So, if I may start, I would like to tell a little story about 12 00:01:13.620 --> 00:01:14.760 1994. 13 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:20.400 So there was a run of stories that my father hadn't recorded in 14 00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:25.019 the 1980s, so roughly from Black Orchid, through to the King's 15 00:01:25.019 --> 00:01:25.439 Demons. 16 00:01:25.500 --> 00:01:28.079 We didn't have any of those on videotape. 17 00:01:28.079 --> 00:01:30.120 So none of season 20. 18 00:01:30.299 --> 00:01:33.359 Todd's looking jealous, actually, as you tell this story. 19 00:01:33.480 --> 00:01:38.340 So during the 1994 repeat season, we recorded those, an Arc of 20 00:01:38.340 --> 00:01:41.640 Infinity Wars, this mythic story, you know, it was a time lord 21 00:01:41.640 --> 00:01:47.099 story, and Omega was back, and Colin Baker was in it, and I knew 22 00:01:47.099 --> 00:01:50.159 he would become the doctor later, and I heard he shoots the doctor 23 00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:53.280 in this one, and how did he survive that and regenerate later? 24 00:01:53.340 --> 00:01:58.560 Oh my god, yeah, tiny little 11 year old mind blown at this 25 00:01:58.560 --> 00:01:58.920 stage. 26 00:01:58.980 --> 00:02:05.459 And I have to say that when my father recorded it at 4 AM and I 27 00:02:05.459 --> 00:02:07.680 was watching it would, then when I got home from school, I'd watch 28 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:09.840 each episode after dinner and what have you. 29 00:02:09.900 --> 00:02:14.939 I was so impressed by this, and I loved the omega design, and we 30 00:02:14.939 --> 00:02:18.479 were back on Gallifrey, and, you know, Nissa got to run around 31 00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:21.479 with a gun, and we're in this strange place called Amsterdam. 32 00:02:21.539 --> 00:02:22.500 I'd never heard of. 33 00:02:23.219 --> 00:02:26.879 You know how JNT says the memory cheats. 34 00:02:27.719 --> 00:02:33.180 I think there is no story more emblematic of that sentiment for 35 00:02:33.180 --> 00:02:33.659 me. 36 00:02:34.199 --> 00:02:36.960 Well, I loved it. thought it was terrific. 37 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:39.539 What, this time round? 38 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:41.099 No I'm lying. 39 00:02:41.159 --> 00:02:44.099 I didn't want to say it was tiresome again. 40 00:02:44.159 --> 00:02:45.659 Can I just say something? 41 00:02:45.719 --> 00:02:46.500 Oh yeah. 42 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:47.939 This is tiresome. 43 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:52.020 My lawyers will be in touch with you. 44 00:02:52.020 --> 00:02:56.340 You know, after enduring the last story. 45 00:02:56.699 --> 00:03:00.180 Which is the worst story in the history of Doctor Who minus one 46 00:03:00.180 --> 00:03:03.780 out of 10 as an aside, if you watch this back to back, I think 47 00:03:03.780 --> 00:03:05.159 this comes off better. 48 00:03:05.219 --> 00:03:08.939 But, you know, I really feel for Johnny Byrne in the fact that 49 00:03:08.939 --> 00:03:12.719 it's like this shopping list of things that he's required to do. 50 00:03:12.780 --> 00:03:14.939 You've got to have omega, right? 51 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:16.020 Because they want to bring him back. 52 00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:18.180 No regard to the original writers. 53 00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:21.960 They only found out at a convention that Omega was back after the 54 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:26.159 fact, you know, it's this casual regard to the history of Doctor 55 00:03:26.159 --> 00:03:28.800 Who in writing that is part of this production team. 56 00:03:28.860 --> 00:03:31.379 And Bob Baker and Dave Martin deserved better. 57 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:35.039 They deserve much, but you know, perhaps a bit better than that. 58 00:03:35.099 --> 00:03:37.379 Never thought you'd hear that on this podcast, too, listen. 59 00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:40.860 You then got to say, well, you've got to set it in Amsterdam. 60 00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:43.199 You've got to come up with a resolution to the whole Tegan 61 00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:45.120 cliffhanger, but you can't have her in episode one. 62 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:49.560 You know, it's just, and what is so frustrating, and you find this 63 00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:50.520 out on the DVD. 64 00:03:50.580 --> 00:03:54.479 On the DVD, they have a quick sort of 12 line rundown of Johnny 65 00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:57.719 Burns original... 66 00:03:57.719 --> 00:03:58.560 That wasn't Alfie. 67 00:03:59.639 --> 00:04:02.400 The 1st thing that's incredibly frustrating. 68 00:04:02.460 --> 00:04:05.400 You know, this is sort of turtles all the way down version of 69 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:06.120 frustrating. 70 00:04:06.180 --> 00:04:10.139 But Johnny Burns' original plotline for this, the time of Nieman 71 00:04:10.139 --> 00:04:11.819 is so much better. 72 00:04:11.879 --> 00:04:13.680 Was that Proctor Nieman? 73 00:04:13.740 --> 00:04:14.759 He was back and he was angry. 74 00:04:14.819 --> 00:04:15.719 Is that it? 75 00:04:15.780 --> 00:04:20.040 That's right Well, the idea of the enemy taking the doctor's form 76 00:04:20.040 --> 00:04:23.579 is kind of the only thing that survives from Johnny Burton's 77 00:04:23.579 --> 00:04:25.800 original script that in the Amsterdam setting, because that was 78 00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:26.759 put upon him. 79 00:04:26.819 --> 00:04:32.100 But the idea of the time of Niemann was you have this force called 80 00:04:32.100 --> 00:04:35.220 the Avatar, which takes the name of Niemann, but takes the 81 00:04:35.220 --> 00:04:40.920 doctor's form, invades Earth in 1983 sets himself up as the head 82 00:04:40.920 --> 00:04:43.740 of a conglomerate, which sort of strip minds the planet. 83 00:04:43.740 --> 00:04:47.699 And so Tegan is in modern day Amsterdam. 84 00:04:47.759 --> 00:04:51.959 And the doctor and Nissa are in Amsterdam 200 years from now where 85 00:04:51.959 --> 00:04:52.800 the timeline's been changed. 86 00:04:52.860 --> 00:04:56.160 And so they have to come back and investigate and that's where 87 00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:57.899 they meet up with Tegan and da da da. 88 00:04:57.959 --> 00:05:01.680 But the reason that the villain has the doctor's form is because 89 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:07.980 this entity takes the form of someone when they are at their 90 00:05:07.980 --> 00:05:08.519 weakest. 91 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:13.500 And because of the doctor's interference in the plot and actions 92 00:05:13.500 --> 00:05:17.160 in the plot, Neiman becomes aware of the doctor and realises his 93 00:05:17.160 --> 00:05:20.339 weakest point was recently when he dropped off a radio telescope 94 00:05:20.339 --> 00:05:20.759 tower. 95 00:05:21.180 --> 00:05:26.639 And so he steals the doctor's form at that point, you know, makes 96 00:05:26.639 --> 00:05:28.740 a copy of it at that point because he's at his weakest. 97 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:33.899 So the climax of the story, which isn't heavily detailed in the 98 00:05:33.899 --> 00:05:37.980 plot outline, but the climax of the story would have taken place 99 00:05:37.980 --> 00:05:39.540 during the regeneration. 100 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:42.720 So they would have used stock footage and put in Peter Davidson 101 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:45.839 from afar watching and fighting Neiman while there were 102 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:46.680 generations going on. 103 00:05:46.740 --> 00:05:49.740 It would have just been this incredibly multi-layered complex 104 00:05:49.740 --> 00:05:50.279 plot. 105 00:05:50.339 --> 00:05:55.500 And of course, Johnny Byrne is most famous for Space 1999 in sci 106 00:05:55.019 --> 00:05:58.199 fi circles, on which he was one of the story editors and one of 107 00:05:58.199 --> 00:05:58.920 the scriptwriters. 108 00:05:58.980 --> 00:06:02.819 And that concept has a lot in common with some season one, space 109 00:06:02.819 --> 00:06:05.399 1999, such as force of life springs to mind. 110 00:06:05.459 --> 00:06:07.199 And we get this. 111 00:06:07.259 --> 00:06:09.540 Yeah, it's really terrible, isn't it? 112 00:06:09.660 --> 00:06:12.540 You know, Johnny Byrne did a great job. 113 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:15.899 I think we all agreed with Keeper of Trunk, and but that's also 114 00:06:15.899 --> 00:06:17.939 improved by the fact that they changed it into the master. 115 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:21.839 Well, no, but what I mean by a great job is that he created some 116 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:23.220 really interesting characters. 117 00:06:23.220 --> 00:06:24.899 It's still a sort of court drama. 118 00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:27.540 There's still sort of important people around, but you've got 119 00:06:27.540 --> 00:06:33.360 people like Luvic and Ceron and cassia and couture. 120 00:06:33.420 --> 00:06:36.000 Like all of those are really well drawn characters. 121 00:06:36.060 --> 00:06:40.920 Here you've got people with horrifically stupid 2 syllable science 122 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:41.699 fiction names. 123 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:44.939 I cannot forgive Cardinal Zora. 124 00:06:44.939 --> 00:06:46.500 That is just the worst thing ever. 125 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:50.220 But Cardinal Zorak has no personality traits of any kind. 126 00:06:50.399 --> 00:06:54.600 He's just a, you know, fool in a stupid car. 127 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:56.579 Can I just interrupt you there? 128 00:06:56.639 --> 00:06:58.439 Like, I can't even remember his name. 129 00:06:58.500 --> 00:07:00.660 Like every time we get to this story. 130 00:07:00.720 --> 00:07:04.620 Like, I was sitting there and it's like, my old friend, Counsellor 131 00:07:04.620 --> 00:07:05.040 Hedden. 132 00:07:05.100 --> 00:07:06.660 Oh, my old friend Barusa. 133 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:07.920 Oh, it's Thalia. 134 00:07:07.980 --> 00:07:09.839 Oh, it's the Castellan. 135 00:07:09.899 --> 00:07:11.639 Oh, it's my old friend Damon. 136 00:07:11.699 --> 00:07:15.360 It's the Kestellan's door, bitch, and then there's the other one. 137 00:07:15.420 --> 00:07:16.860 That guy. 138 00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:19.800 2011. 139 00:07:20.040 --> 00:07:23.519 I was living in the UK and doing a lot of work with Planet Scara 140 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:24.720 Audios, who I'd mentioned before. 141 00:07:24.779 --> 00:07:27.660 We just had a recording that day and then I think we watched a 142 00:07:27.660 --> 00:07:28.980 good man goes to war. 143 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:31.560 And we decided afterwards. 144 00:07:31.620 --> 00:07:33.180 You know, we've still got some wine. 145 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:36.600 Let's watch some old bad Doctor Who and record some commentaries. 146 00:07:36.660 --> 00:07:39.839 So we did Nightmare of Eden and that was fine. actually quite 147 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:40.019 good. 148 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:41.040 It's actually quite good. 149 00:07:41.100 --> 00:07:42.600 We got quite drunk. 150 00:07:42.660 --> 00:07:44.399 Then once we were quite drunk. 151 00:07:44.459 --> 00:07:46.319 We watched Arc of infinity. 152 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:50.220 You see, this was my 1st inkling I had that the story was 153 00:07:50.220 --> 00:07:50.519 terrible. 154 00:07:50.579 --> 00:07:52.259 Cardinal Zorak. 155 00:07:52.319 --> 00:07:53.699 What's his job? 156 00:07:53.759 --> 00:07:56.279 You know, the Castellan's in charge of security. 157 00:07:56.339 --> 00:07:59.220 The president is the president, heads there to be the traitor. 158 00:07:59.279 --> 00:08:01.259 Thalia knows about pulse loops. 159 00:08:01.319 --> 00:08:01.980 It's the very thing. 160 00:08:02.040 --> 00:08:02.639 Fetch it. 161 00:08:02.699 --> 00:08:05.220 What's Cardinals or Rex job? 162 00:08:05.339 --> 00:08:07.860 Now, we were puzzling over this question. 163 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:12.540 And then we started noticing increasingly. 164 00:08:12.600 --> 00:08:17.339 There are sofas all around Galafre, just in the middle of 165 00:08:17.339 --> 00:08:20.220 corridors, at tea junctions in front of lifts. 166 00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:24.060 And so I decided, and I'm going to swear a lot less this time. 167 00:08:24.180 --> 00:08:28.319 Cardinal Zorak is in charge of sofas, and that's why he puts them 168 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:31.259 everywhere because he knows it's a useless job, but by God, he's 169 00:08:31.259 --> 00:08:31.680 going to do it. 170 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:37.200 Is it a pub on Galifre or a cafe that they're all sitting around? 171 00:08:37.259 --> 00:08:38.519 It's a cafe. 172 00:08:38.580 --> 00:08:41.279 Someone's wearing rodens, travelling gear. 173 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:43.500 Someone's wearing the archmandrite's cloak. 174 00:08:43.559 --> 00:08:46.139 It's so bad Nobody cares. 175 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:47.519 I hate Gallifrey. 176 00:08:47.580 --> 00:08:50.460 Like, I really hate Gallifrey. was really glad that Russell 177 00:08:50.460 --> 00:08:51.179 destroyed it. 178 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:51.840 It's awful. 179 00:08:51.899 --> 00:08:54.419 But here it's really, really awful. 180 00:08:54.419 --> 00:08:59.580 And they've exchanged those fantastically gothic glass corridors 181 00:08:59.580 --> 00:09:03.480 and things that we had in Deadly Assassin, which I thought were 182 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:06.899 really effective while still being a bit sort of science fiction-y 183 00:09:06.899 --> 00:09:11.519 with horrible 80s foil wallpaper. 184 00:09:11.580 --> 00:09:13.740 But it's also, I find, so sterile. 185 00:09:13.799 --> 00:09:14.879 It's just very blocky. 186 00:09:14.940 --> 00:09:19.740 Everything's just like, um, there's no curves, like, except for 187 00:09:19.740 --> 00:09:23.879 the sofa, it's just, I kept thinking of you, Nathan, throughout 188 00:09:23.879 --> 00:09:27.179 this entire podcast, about every time we come back to Galafre, it 189 00:09:27.179 --> 00:09:28.139 gets that little bit worse. 190 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:32.100 And, you know, right at the beginning, like with the traitor. 191 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:36.240 Like, we have to go into, like, I really do feel for Michael Goff 192 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:39.179 who, I think, does a wonderful job as Hidden, but we have to have 193 00:09:39.179 --> 00:09:43.440 the mood lighting and sort of disguising his voice a bit, but then 194 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:46.620 he has to have his swizzle stick, which becomes this one that just 195 00:09:46.620 --> 00:09:48.960 gets more and more over the top as the whole thing goes through. 196 00:09:49.019 --> 00:09:50.700 It's the only acting he can do. 197 00:09:50.759 --> 00:09:51.600 We can't see his face. 198 00:09:51.659 --> 00:09:53.519 So he's doing slide rule acting. 199 00:09:53.580 --> 00:09:55.740 But you know, I hear I hear Gallifrey. 200 00:09:55.799 --> 00:10:00.059 I hear antimatter, and I get that spidey, tingly sense, and then 201 00:10:00.059 --> 00:10:03.659 it just goes, I mean, this whole story is just a series of 202 00:10:03.659 --> 00:10:04.860 continual disappointments. 203 00:10:04.919 --> 00:10:08.519 It builds up a bit and I think, oh, yes, yes, yes. 204 00:10:08.580 --> 00:10:10.379 Halfway through the story. 205 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:13.440 It's like, Omega wants control of the Matrix, but nowhere in this 206 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:15.480 story, we told why that's a bad thing. 207 00:10:15.539 --> 00:10:19.259 It's the worst word peril cliffhanger ever, isn't it? 208 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:22.200 That episode 3 cliffhanger where it's omega has control of the 209 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:24.299 matrix and you just think, who bloody cares? 210 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:25.139 So what? 211 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:28.440 You know, what they do is they get the entire premise of the 212 00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:29.580 entire show wrong. 213 00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:34.980 So the show is about, you know, Moffatt says, a madman in a box. 214 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:37.860 It's about the doctor with some companions travelling and having 215 00:10:37.860 --> 00:10:39.240 adventures in space and time. 216 00:10:39.299 --> 00:10:43.139 But whoever's making the show at the moment now thinks it's a 217 00:10:43.139 --> 00:10:47.820 story about a galifrean from the constellation of Casterberus 218 00:10:47.820 --> 00:10:53.279 whose planet has transduction barriers and the matrix and like all 219 00:10:53.279 --> 00:10:56.879 of these sort of callbacks to really uninteresting elements from 220 00:10:56.879 --> 00:10:58.259 the invasion of time. 221 00:10:58.320 --> 00:10:59.460 Yeah, yeah. 222 00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:03.179 The thing the thing is with this is that we here in Australia have 223 00:11:03.179 --> 00:11:06.299 seen like the invasion of time and the 3 doctors repeated quite a 224 00:11:06.299 --> 00:11:06.480 lot. 225 00:11:06.539 --> 00:11:09.360 People in the UK haven't had this. 226 00:11:09.419 --> 00:11:12.360 And it's supposed to be, you know, JNT's making out like there's 227 00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:15.480 all these things coming back for the 20th anniversary, but if 228 00:11:15.480 --> 00:11:18.779 you're a casual viewer, you'd be sitting there going, what the 229 00:11:18.779 --> 00:11:19.379 hell is this? 230 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:23.759 Like, it's really just for people who really know Doctor Who? 231 00:11:23.820 --> 00:11:26.100 There's just so much to stop you from getting involved, going 232 00:11:26.100 --> 00:11:28.080 what's this technical gobbly-gook? 233 00:11:28.139 --> 00:11:31.679 Well, even Omega, I think, is essentially the same thing. 234 00:11:31.740 --> 00:11:35.100 You know, I think he'd been repeated recently in the 5 faces of 235 00:11:35.100 --> 00:11:35.759 Doctor Who. 236 00:11:35.820 --> 00:11:38.220 So he had at least been on television in the last couple of 237 00:11:38.220 --> 00:11:38.759 years. 238 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:41.759 But, you know, it's not explained who he is or what happened 239 00:11:41.759 --> 00:11:43.919 before, you know, any of that. 240 00:11:43.980 --> 00:11:48.360 And all of the good things about Omega, particularly that thing 241 00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:52.019 that wonderful thing, that he doesn't exist anymore because he's 242 00:11:52.019 --> 00:11:53.100 been eroded away. 243 00:11:53.159 --> 00:11:54.720 He's got no head. 244 00:11:54.779 --> 00:12:00.120 And now he's back in a costume that's worse than I really love the 245 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:02.100 3 doctors one and I hate this costume. 246 00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:02.879 He just sits. 247 00:12:02.940 --> 00:12:04.320 He just sits for 3 episodes. 248 00:12:04.379 --> 00:12:05.519 My God. 249 00:12:05.580 --> 00:12:08.820 The thing I really don't understand about the omega costume is 250 00:12:08.820 --> 00:12:13.740 when Doctor Who brings back monsters in this era, they usually try 251 00:12:13.740 --> 00:12:17.639 to make a pretty good effort to keep the recognisable elements. 252 00:12:17.700 --> 00:12:20.460 Like when the Solurians and the sea devils come back next year. 253 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:23.519 Because of various production problems, they're not hugely 254 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:24.000 successful. 255 00:12:24.059 --> 00:12:26.100 But the designs are instantly recognisable. 256 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:29.460 Oh, do you know, I didn't recognise them when I 1st saw the 257 00:12:29.460 --> 00:12:30.960 trailer for Warriors in the team. 258 00:12:31.019 --> 00:12:31.919 I think. 259 00:12:31.980 --> 00:12:32.159 Yeah. 260 00:12:32.220 --> 00:12:34.679 Well, I don't think I was that familiar with the Silurians back 261 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:37.620 then anyway, but they also had sort of space robot voices as 262 00:12:37.620 --> 00:12:37.860 well. 263 00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:38.639 That's true. 264 00:12:38.700 --> 00:12:39.419 They did change the voices. 265 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:40.379 But that's the thing. 266 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:43.860 Omega had that brilliant mask, which I think I'm right, was 267 00:12:43.860 --> 00:12:47.639 designed by James Atchison, who went on to win Oscar Awards. 268 00:12:47.700 --> 00:12:50.700 And he's won the Jenny Layd Award. he's won the Gen. 269 00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:53.519 But there is nothing wrong with that design. 270 00:12:53.580 --> 00:12:56.879 You couldn't even really say, oh, it's 270s. 271 00:12:57.000 --> 00:13:00.000 It's like, well, no, it wasn't, okay, glitter cape, maybe. 272 00:13:00.059 --> 00:13:03.659 But bring back that same design or recreate it somehow. 273 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:05.820 But you know why they can't, don't you? 274 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:09.899 Because the reveal that it's omega is something that they think is 275 00:13:09.899 --> 00:13:11.399 a big and interesting thing. 276 00:13:11.460 --> 00:13:15.120 So if it looked like Omega all along. you know, then that wouldn't 277 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:15.360 work. 278 00:13:15.419 --> 00:13:18.120 And then they reveal that it's only, except that that's a really 279 00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:21.179 boring revelation because virtually no one at home cares. 280 00:13:21.240 --> 00:13:23.820 And the thing is, there's a perfect opportunity to explain it 281 00:13:23.820 --> 00:13:26.639 because Nissa could actually say, who's Omega? 282 00:13:26.700 --> 00:13:29.820 That would make sense because, of course, Nessa's not going to 283 00:13:29.820 --> 00:13:32.700 know who Omega is, and it's not a moment of, well, as you well 284 00:13:32.700 --> 00:13:33.059 know. 285 00:13:33.179 --> 00:13:37.379 Nissa would actually be able to have a bit at the top of episode 286 00:13:37.379 --> 00:13:40.500 four, because I think it's the end of episode 3 where they 287 00:13:40.500 --> 00:13:41.940 actually reveal its omega. 288 00:13:41.940 --> 00:13:45.299 At the top of episode 4 going, what the hell is going on? 289 00:13:45.299 --> 00:13:47.759 Instead, we get that scene in the TARDIS where the doctor's like 290 00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:49.740 I'm building an antimatter detector. 291 00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:51.299 Look at this, it goes buzz. 292 00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:55.379 Yeah, they love scenes of people building things, don't they? 293 00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:57.539 And the pulse loop thing. 294 00:13:57.600 --> 00:13:58.799 Oh, looking at a flashing button. 295 00:13:58.860 --> 00:14:01.259 I mean, how boring can it get? 296 00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:05.039 Oh, the word peril in episode 4 is terrible because it's just like 297 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:07.559 we're running down this street in Amsterdam, but we need to get to 298 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:09.419 the point where we're running down this street in Amsterdam. 299 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:12.419 Let's come back to everyone on Gallifrey looking at a flashing 300 00:14:12.419 --> 00:14:12.960 bulb. 301 00:14:13.019 --> 00:14:18.480 And of course, that whole scene is sold by the worst actor in the 302 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:21.600 history of Doctor Who, which is the lord president, the worst 303 00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:22.320 peruser. 304 00:14:22.379 --> 00:14:24.600 I don't even know what that man's name is, but he retired from 305 00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:26.100 acting like 20 years ago. 306 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:27.899 He's insufferable. 307 00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:31.139 Oh, oh, it's Mr. Lisser of Tracam in episode three. 308 00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:32.399 He stumbles through lines. 309 00:14:32.460 --> 00:14:35.759 God, I wish the test line, whoever shot headed and shot him. 310 00:14:35.820 --> 00:14:38.159 I hoped, but my memory cheated. 311 00:14:38.220 --> 00:14:38.879 Oh, he's terrible. 312 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:40.559 And the moustache, what's with the moustache? 313 00:14:40.620 --> 00:14:41.039 awful. 314 00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:42.480 I think it's his. 315 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:43.139 Yeah, terrible. 316 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:46.019 If there was ever a case of spontaneous combustion. 317 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:49.259 Eurusa should have regenerated, looked in the mirror and gone, oh 318 00:14:49.259 --> 00:14:51.659 well, this is a bust and just regenerated straight away. 319 00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:54.240 He is just a palling. 320 00:14:54.299 --> 00:14:55.139 Yeah, yeah. 321 00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:57.659 Did they try and get him back for 5 doctors or did they just think 322 00:14:57.659 --> 00:14:58.919 they did? 323 00:14:58.980 --> 00:14:59.940 God, they failed. 324 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:03.960 Because he was in a big show at the time called The Palaces. 325 00:15:04.019 --> 00:15:04.860 Okay. 326 00:15:04.860 --> 00:15:09.899 He was the big name cast for this, him and Elspeth Gray, who was 327 00:15:09.899 --> 00:15:10.500 Thalia. 328 00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:15.840 Who was the psychiatrist in Fulty Towers, and is Black Hatter's 329 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:16.980 mother in the first... 330 00:15:16.980 --> 00:15:17.820 He's in a Black Hatter. 331 00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:24.179 But where is Barusa's acerbic wit and charm that the 1st 2 332 00:15:24.179 --> 00:15:25.200 Barusa's hat? 333 00:15:25.259 --> 00:15:27.539 The 1st 2 perusas are really terrific. 334 00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:28.860 The 2 are terrible. 335 00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:30.240 Well, I don't agree with that. 336 00:15:30.299 --> 00:15:33.179 I really like the one in the 5 doctors quite a lot. 337 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:36.419 I think he's got a menace and there's just something off about him 338 00:15:36.419 --> 00:15:37.980 that I think works really well. 339 00:15:38.039 --> 00:15:39.299 This one is just pathetic. 340 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:43.440 You've got that scene with the High Council, which is appallingly 341 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:44.820 directed by Ron Jones. 342 00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:46.139 Is Ron Jones with this story? 343 00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:51.059 I look at it, and it's like, like, imagine a window in a 344 00:15:51.059 --> 00:15:54.659 department store where you've got people sitting like mannequins 345 00:15:54.659 --> 00:15:57.720 like in a row, and then you've got the Christmas chair where Santa 346 00:15:57.720 --> 00:15:59.279 Claus is sitting at a right angle to that. 347 00:15:59.340 --> 00:16:01.139 That's the bloody scene. 348 00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:03.240 And I'm just thinking, is this pathetic? 349 00:16:03.299 --> 00:16:04.500 pinned to their seats? 350 00:16:04.620 --> 00:16:06.360 I mean, look at what Dahlia is wearing. 351 00:16:06.419 --> 00:16:09.659 She looks like the queen of hearts from... 352 00:16:09.659 --> 00:16:13.799 Wonderland. like with that small thing and the big huge skirt. 353 00:16:13.860 --> 00:16:15.899 I mean, I really like her, I think she does a good job. 354 00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:16.860 Yeah, she is. 355 00:16:16.980 --> 00:16:19.440 And, you know, I think Heden does a good job and well, Zorak 356 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:19.919 Zorak. 357 00:16:19.980 --> 00:16:21.600 You've got the Catalan being a bitch. 358 00:16:21.659 --> 00:16:26.279 You've got, he's such a bitch to, to, um, well, his door bitch who 359 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:28.860 seems to be guarding the door on the doctor all of the time. 360 00:16:29.100 --> 00:16:33.120 And I guess I'm talking about the door, bitch now, so I talk about 361 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:34.019 Colin Baker. 362 00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:35.759 It's really funny. 363 00:16:35.820 --> 00:16:37.799 Like, you know, there's some characters you remember in Doctor 364 00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:38.220 Who. 365 00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:40.440 Like you remember Cassia, or you remember. 366 00:16:40.500 --> 00:16:41.399 Madge. 367 00:16:41.460 --> 00:16:43.080 You remember Madge from Black Orchid? 368 00:16:43.139 --> 00:16:43.679 You do. 369 00:16:44.940 --> 00:16:47.759 I remember reading in the 20th anniversary special, like obviously 370 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:50.399 Colin was announced as the doctor and he was in Arc infinity and I 371 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:52.980 went, Well, what did he do in Ark of infinity? 372 00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:55.440 Do you know, it's really funny, but when I was watching it for the 373 00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:58.919 podcast, I actually went, 0 my God, that's right. 374 00:16:58.980 --> 00:17:00.059 Colin Baker's in this. 375 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:01.019 I'd completely forgotten. 376 00:17:01.080 --> 00:17:02.639 Well, I actually like his performance. 377 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:03.659 Yeah, me too. 378 00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:05.759 But the character just disappears. 379 00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:06.539 Yes. 380 00:17:06.599 --> 00:17:08.460 Yeah, he disappears in episode three. 381 00:17:08.579 --> 00:17:09.900 He just walks down a corridor. 382 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:13.019 There is a missing scene of him from episode 4 on the DVD. 383 00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:15.960 I have to say of all the guest cast, I think Colin gives the best 384 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:16.380 performance. 385 00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:17.880 That's probably fair. 386 00:17:17.940 --> 00:17:18.420 Yeah. 387 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:21.000 And that's not damning with faint brains. 388 00:17:21.059 --> 00:17:22.019 It's actually a good performance. 389 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:26.460 Not only that, I can clearly see the difference in his 390 00:17:26.460 --> 00:17:29.460 characterisation of Maxwell from his characterisation of the 391 00:17:29.460 --> 00:17:29.759 doctor. 392 00:17:29.819 --> 00:17:33.240 I can clearly accept them as different characters. 393 00:17:33.299 --> 00:17:37.380 It's not like, say, Princess Astra and Romana, Romana 2. 394 00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:40.740 Now that's not a slight on Lala Ward at all, but I just found the 395 00:17:40.740 --> 00:17:43.859 way she played the 2 characters quite similar in some ways. 396 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:45.420 Oh no, I thought they were quite different. 397 00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:49.019 I think Princess Astro is a kind of posh idiot in a way in a way 398 00:17:49.019 --> 00:17:50.460 that Romana isn't. 399 00:17:50.519 --> 00:17:55.680 But I actually suspect that Maxill is the 6th doctor and that he 400 00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:59.279 heads off, you know, like he goes to Titan 3 and loses a whole 401 00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:02.759 bunch of weight and then travels, you know, back in time, you know 402 00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:04.799 in order to shoot Pete and just kind of mess with him. 403 00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:05.880 Yeah, yeah. 404 00:18:05.940 --> 00:18:10.619 You know that that whole thing in Doctor Who series 9 with the 405 00:18:10.619 --> 00:18:12.900 girl who lived, where the doctor figures out, this is why I have 406 00:18:12.900 --> 00:18:14.579 this face to tell me to save people. 407 00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:17.279 My reaction to that is, well, what was Maxwell, you know? 408 00:18:17.339 --> 00:18:19.259 The doctor regenerates into Maxwell. 409 00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:20.640 Look out, you're gonna try and kill yourself. 410 00:18:20.700 --> 00:18:22.440 Lo and behold, the valiard turns up. 411 00:18:22.500 --> 00:18:26.220 So he's right, you know, there's an actual warning there. shooting 412 00:18:26.220 --> 00:18:26.460 people. 413 00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:30.000 So we've got, I think it's a pathetic cliffhanger. 414 00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:32.220 Sort of like, okay, shoot the doctor. 415 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:34.619 Peter Davidson lies down for 2 seconds, gets up. 416 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:37.920 Like, I just think they're going, could it be a stun gun, do you 417 00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:38.099 think? 418 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:38.819 Do you know what I mean? 419 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:39.480 Like you're there? 420 00:18:39.539 --> 00:18:40.200 Like he's been shot? 421 00:18:40.259 --> 00:18:42.539 Well, it's just possible that that was a stunt gun? 422 00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:46.619 If I can say, well, we know it's not an impulse laser. 423 00:18:46.740 --> 00:18:48.660 But all you know what? 424 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:49.859 I'm going to say this. 425 00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:51.420 The 1st 2 episodes of this story. 426 00:18:51.480 --> 00:18:55.019 Sarah Sutton finally gets gumption and something to do. 427 00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:57.359 She has rapport with Damon, they make a wonderful team. 428 00:18:57.420 --> 00:19:02.700 The moment you give Missa a court setting, a gun, an omission. 429 00:19:02.759 --> 00:19:03.660 She's fantastic. 430 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:05.460 Yeah, she's really, really good. 431 00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:09.059 And her scenes with the High Council when she's like really upset 432 00:19:09.059 --> 00:19:10.680 with them and showing real emotions. 433 00:19:10.740 --> 00:19:12.480 She cries at the end of episode two. 434 00:19:12.539 --> 00:19:14.700 I think there's a bit of glycerine there. 435 00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:17.579 Well, I think she's deeply distressed. 436 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:18.599 The doctor is dead. 437 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:20.099 Tegan has left. 438 00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:21.000 Adric is dead. 439 00:19:21.059 --> 00:19:22.079 Her world is dead. 440 00:19:22.140 --> 00:19:23.759 She is alone on this planet. 441 00:19:23.819 --> 00:19:26.400 I think she really sells it, and I think she's really, really 442 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:26.700 good. 443 00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:29.759 Do you think she's, like, anticipating the next few decades of 444 00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:32.460 having to hang out in that cafe on Teliframe? 445 00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:35.400 her only kind of social outlet. 446 00:19:35.460 --> 00:19:38.940 Possibly, because, you see, I think she should sue John Nathan 447 00:19:38.940 --> 00:19:42.359 Turner for the way in which this character has just been totally 448 00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:46.200 underused the entire time and it's going to continue over the next 449 00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:47.039 few weeks as well. 450 00:19:47.099 --> 00:19:50.940 They should have left on in the TARDIS up until the 5 doctors. 451 00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:54.480 She should have gone up into Gallifre and met Damon again and done 452 00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:56.220 something, and then they should have said, well, we're going to 453 00:19:56.220 --> 00:19:58.859 get married, and they should have had a marriage at the end of the 454 00:19:58.859 --> 00:20:01.740 5 doctors between Nissa and Damon, and, you know, I can write this 455 00:20:01.740 --> 00:20:02.160 crap. 456 00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:04.440 No, the doctor would have been so jealous. 457 00:20:04.500 --> 00:20:05.819 Damon's his old boyfriend. 458 00:20:06.059 --> 00:20:08.339 He left, obviously. 459 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:11.220 But I'm just saying, like, you know, she, the glimpses that you're 460 00:20:11.220 --> 00:20:12.240 getting this of what she could do. 461 00:20:12.299 --> 00:20:14.819 And then the moment Tegan turns back up and they're back together 462 00:20:14.819 --> 00:20:17.400 as a team, she becomes the 3rd wheel. 463 00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:21.839 Tegan gets the lines and she gets one every so often. just so 464 00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:23.339 distressing. 465 00:20:23.460 --> 00:20:26.099 Speaking of people turning up with their boyfriends, of course 466 00:20:26.099 --> 00:20:29.279 we've got Colin and Robin, who they're absolutely not a couple, are 467 00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:29.579 they? 468 00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:33.000 Do you know, there's a scene where Colin's a bit freaked out about 469 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:34.680 being in the crypt or is it Robin? 470 00:20:34.740 --> 00:20:35.039 Which one? 471 00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:36.720 Colin is Tegan's cousin. 472 00:20:36.779 --> 00:20:39.059 And he's freaked out about being in the crypt. 473 00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:39.839 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 474 00:20:39.900 --> 00:20:44.339 And so Robin is trying to encourage him to take his clothes off. 475 00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:48.539 And he refuses to do that because he might want to leg it in case 476 00:20:48.539 --> 00:20:50.819 Robin kind of comes onto it in the night or something. 477 00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:52.740 Well, at least take your boots off. 478 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:54.359 Yes, please do. 479 00:20:55.259 --> 00:20:57.299 Oh my goodness. 480 00:20:57.359 --> 00:20:58.559 Can I just say something here? 481 00:20:58.619 --> 00:21:01.259 Like, actually, that Crip stuff freaked me out as a kid. 482 00:21:01.319 --> 00:21:03.480 Yeah, like, I really, really creepy. 483 00:21:03.539 --> 00:21:04.200 I really did. 484 00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:05.579 Until the ergon comes in. 485 00:21:05.640 --> 00:21:09.000 Can I just say that ergon is so crap and it's such a toothless 486 00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:09.359 wonder? 487 00:21:09.420 --> 00:21:11.640 Here you've got the cousin of Tegan. 488 00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:15.000 They're not going to kill the cousin of Tegan. 18 months ago, an 489 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:16.859 Australian woman went missing and her aunt was killed. 490 00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:20.220 She turns up a year later, is there an investigation into what 491 00:21:20.220 --> 00:21:20.579 happened? 492 00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:24.059 If the cousin goes missing and she suddenly turns up in Amsterdam 493 00:21:24.059 --> 00:21:24.720 is there a connection? 494 00:21:24.779 --> 00:21:27.599 It's not like in a year's time, another one of her family is going 495 00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:28.380 to go missing at all. 496 00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:31.319 So she's like murdering all of her extended family. 497 00:21:31.380 --> 00:21:32.220 Exactly. 498 00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:36.960 But hold on, does that make Colin Auntie Vanessa's son? 499 00:21:37.019 --> 00:21:39.720 And that's why Tegan's coming to visit him. 500 00:21:39.779 --> 00:21:41.460 So while you've been off backpacking. 501 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:43.920 I'm afraid your mum's been shrunk down to the size of an action 502 00:21:43.920 --> 00:21:44.400 man. 503 00:21:44.460 --> 00:21:45.839 She's not actually an action man. 504 00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:48.480 Don't look too closely at the model, but yeah. 505 00:21:48.539 --> 00:21:49.680 Hi. 506 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:52.559 No, I'm sure it's from another side of the family. 507 00:21:52.619 --> 00:21:54.000 I'm almost certain. 508 00:21:54.059 --> 00:21:58.259 So he gets abducted by the erg on the ergon comes in, it clearly 509 00:21:58.259 --> 00:22:01.019 can't see the poor actor inside, it can't see. 510 00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:05.759 And it sort of shoots Colin and because Omega is reluctant to get 511 00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:09.660 up from his chair for 3 episodes, he press gangs Colin into 512 00:22:09.660 --> 00:22:10.980 pressing all those buttons for him. 513 00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:11.519 Is that it? 514 00:22:11.579 --> 00:22:14.279 Yeah, the weird thing is in the script, like once he comes through 515 00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:17.940 to our universe, Omega is meant to be sort of paralysed in that 516 00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:20.759 chair because if he moves, it'll cause an antimatter explosion. 517 00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:22.019 Except for that bit. 518 00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:25.380 In episode three, I think it is, where he comes to the door to 519 00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:26.339 interrogate Tegan. 520 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:26.880 You know? 521 00:22:26.940 --> 00:22:30.900 Is that the scene where he's standing next to an ergon and they're 522 00:22:30.900 --> 00:22:33.059 in a 2 shot and the ergon is looking around? 523 00:22:33.180 --> 00:22:37.259 I've been planning to use that for no publicise this episode, but 524 00:22:37.259 --> 00:22:40.619 the trust your doctor boys have already used it because it is just 525 00:22:40.619 --> 00:22:44.759 the stupidest looking thing. of 1980s Doctor Who. 526 00:22:44.819 --> 00:22:46.259 See, the problem with the ergon. 527 00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:51.059 It was designed to look like alien and Geiger kind of designed. 528 00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:56.880 But the head was made as a hat to sit on top of the actor's egg. 529 00:22:56.940 --> 00:23:00.960 So the problem is the slightest movement he makes, the whole thing 530 00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:02.640 wobbles like a curious chicken. 531 00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:04.319 Yeah, no it looks like a chicken. 532 00:23:04.380 --> 00:23:10.259 I think there was in DWM a short story one time where Ace was 533 00:23:10.259 --> 00:23:14.519 working at Kentucky Fried Chicken and the Ergon came in and she 534 00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:17.880 thought that it was like Barry who works with a, you know, his 535 00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:18.420 costume. 536 00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:22.019 And I think friend of the podcast, Peter McTire, had a theory that 537 00:23:22.019 --> 00:23:25.200 rather than being one of Omega's less successful attempts at 538 00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:30.000 psychogenesis, what Omega actually does is employ people to wear 539 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:34.859 increasingly crap and unconvincing monster costumes. 540 00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:38.880 So that's the gel guards explained and now the ergon. 541 00:23:38.940 --> 00:23:42.240 Like, we don't even get the gel guards. don't even get some fake 542 00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:42.720 reality. 543 00:23:42.779 --> 00:23:46.559 We just get that stupid web thing that makes Tegan go wibbly 544 00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:47.039 wobbly. 545 00:23:47.099 --> 00:23:48.299 That looks ridiculous. 546 00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:49.740 I mean, those scenes are stupid. 547 00:23:49.859 --> 00:23:51.180 That's meant to be the matrix. 548 00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:54.000 But back to the ergon and its inability to kill anybody. 549 00:23:54.059 --> 00:23:57.779 I do laugh every single time anybody gets shot and goes, ah, and 550 00:23:57.779 --> 00:24:00.420 changes into negative and out of negative. 551 00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:03.299 And then, of course, you know, when Colin comes back and he's 552 00:24:03.299 --> 00:24:05.640 doing all of his work for Omega. 553 00:24:05.700 --> 00:24:09.180 The look that he's given, it reminds me of a 1980 sort of video 554 00:24:09.180 --> 00:24:11.099 clip, you know, with that red under the eyes. 555 00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:14.640 But you know how they got him into that sort of situation. 556 00:24:14.700 --> 00:24:15.960 They actually... 557 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:16.920 Copious amounts of drugs. 558 00:24:16.980 --> 00:24:20.940 Well, that, and that was after, they said, we're just going to put 559 00:24:20.940 --> 00:24:21.660 you in this room for a moment. 560 00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:24.059 We're just going to show you a bit of old Doctor Who. 561 00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:27.779 And within 15 minutes, he was like screaming at the walls and they 562 00:24:27.779 --> 00:24:29.220 had to turn off time flight. 563 00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:32.460 And, you know, they had to then go for the take. 564 00:24:33.660 --> 00:24:38.039 I thought they might have sat Gary Downey by his bed and he got 565 00:24:38.039 --> 00:24:41.940 Gary Downey to like poke him with a stick every 15 minutes so that 566 00:24:41.940 --> 00:24:44.519 he was suffering from sleep deprivation during those scenes. 567 00:24:44.579 --> 00:24:47.400 And then he found out it wasn't a stick and that's why his jaws 568 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:47.759 dropped. 569 00:24:47.819 --> 00:24:48.839 Okay. 570 00:24:48.900 --> 00:24:50.039 Where are we at? 571 00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:53.339 I think I think maybe I should mention some bigs I like about 572 00:24:53.339 --> 00:24:54.059 this. 573 00:24:54.119 --> 00:24:56.160 No, I'm not finished with hate. 574 00:24:56.220 --> 00:24:57.839 I'm not finished with the hat. 575 00:24:57.900 --> 00:24:59.519 Yeah, but I think we should interperse it, you know, like an 576 00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:00.119 apparative. 577 00:25:00.180 --> 00:25:03.480 As I've already said, I think Colin is wonderful in this. 578 00:25:03.539 --> 00:25:04.740 Colin Baker. 579 00:25:04.740 --> 00:25:06.000 Colin Baker. 580 00:25:06.059 --> 00:25:06.779 Where is he? 581 00:25:06.839 --> 00:25:10.799 Although I will say for gentlemen of a certain persuasion and 582 00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:13.440 ladies of a certain persuasion as well, check out the making of 583 00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:17.339 Alastair coming has grown into quite an attractive man, whereas he 584 00:25:17.339 --> 00:25:18.180 used to be a stick insect. 585 00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:21.720 He's got a kind of 80s look to him where he is sort of good 586 00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:22.079 looking. 587 00:25:22.140 --> 00:25:25.259 The 2 of them remind me of the people from K9 and Company, you 588 00:25:25.259 --> 00:25:27.000 know, Brendan and that... 589 00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:28.619 Oh, the other one. 590 00:25:28.680 --> 00:25:29.940 Yeah, the Peter jacket. 591 00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:30.299 Peter. 592 00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:35.039 Yeah, yeah. where maybe if you squint sort of, one of them's good 593 00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:38.160 looking and the other's sort of birdlike and bizarre looking. 594 00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:41.339 There's a lovely moment in the making of where Alastair coming is 595 00:25:41.339 --> 00:25:43.980 talking about the ergon and says, so the ergon came in to shoot me 596 00:25:43.980 --> 00:25:44.880 and he raised the gunwale. 597 00:25:44.940 --> 00:25:45.900 Well, maybe she raised the gun. 598 00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:46.619 I don't know. 599 00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:48.240 Ergon. sex indeterminate. 600 00:25:48.299 --> 00:25:50.819 And there's something about the way he says sex indeterminate that 601 00:25:50.819 --> 00:25:52.500 just makes my knees a little bit wobbly. 602 00:25:54.059 --> 00:25:56.339 I'm about to go into negative again. 603 00:25:56.400 --> 00:25:58.019 Can I say something positive? 604 00:25:58.079 --> 00:25:59.339 Yeah, you say something positive. 605 00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:00.000 It happens rarely. 606 00:26:00.059 --> 00:26:00.839 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 607 00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:02.700 So the 1st time I ever went to Europe. 608 00:26:02.759 --> 00:26:07.799 I visited London and then caught a ferry from Harwich to the Hook 609 00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:10.200 of Holland and drove to Amsterdam. 610 00:26:10.259 --> 00:26:14.640 And so Amsterdam is the 1st European city that I've ever been to. 611 00:26:14.700 --> 00:26:16.440 And I think I've been there 3 times now. 612 00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:20.160 And I think maybe I've spent a total of a month there and I 613 00:26:20.160 --> 00:26:22.319 absolutely adore Amsterdam. 614 00:26:22.380 --> 00:26:23.279 It's so beautiful. 615 00:26:23.339 --> 00:26:27.839 And so watching the location stuff and there's altogether too 616 00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:31.140 little of it is really, really great. 617 00:26:31.259 --> 00:26:32.880 Like I really like it. 618 00:26:32.940 --> 00:26:37.619 And in particular, I think the location stuff in episode 4 works 619 00:26:37.619 --> 00:26:38.279 really well. 620 00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:42.240 Instead of a lot of people talking about the matrix and quad 621 00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:45.960 magnetism and all of those just deadly, deadly, uninteresting 622 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:46.380 things. 623 00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:48.779 Episode 4 is a chase. 624 00:26:48.779 --> 00:26:50.039 Only has escaped. 625 00:26:50.099 --> 00:26:51.420 He looks like the doctor. 626 00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:54.119 We know that he'll explode everything. 627 00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:56.819 It's a very straightforward and understandable thing and they 628 00:26:56.819 --> 00:26:59.519 chase after him and I just think it works really, really well. 629 00:26:59.579 --> 00:27:01.500 Do you think they use the location well? 630 00:27:01.500 --> 00:27:02.759 In that episode? 631 00:27:02.819 --> 00:27:05.880 And I think because now they're telling a straightforward story 632 00:27:05.880 --> 00:27:09.420 instead of a lot of people in space costumes standing around in 633 00:27:09.420 --> 00:27:13.859 space corridors talking about space threats, we just have a 634 00:27:13.859 --> 00:27:14.339 chase. 635 00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:18.420 And there's even a scene where a really off-putting looking child 636 00:27:18.420 --> 00:27:22.619 smiles at Omica when they're standing in front of a hurdy-gurdy. 637 00:27:22.680 --> 00:27:26.640 And the scene's a little bit cringeworthy, but there's an attempt 638 00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:31.440 to give Omega a little bit of humanity and to make us feel a 639 00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:32.640 little bit of sympathy for him. 640 00:27:32.700 --> 00:27:34.440 And I think that that's really good. 641 00:27:34.500 --> 00:27:36.839 I think that's the only good thing about the story. 642 00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:41.640 No, but those children are wearing the most hideous show. 643 00:27:41.700 --> 00:27:44.640 Oh yeah, they're very off-putting looking children. and they're 644 00:27:44.640 --> 00:27:46.019 not even from the Doctor Who pattern book. 645 00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:48.960 But watching these people watch this Hedigo thing is so boring. 646 00:27:49.019 --> 00:27:53.940 It is corny and kind of cliche, but it's a nice little moment in a 647 00:27:53.940 --> 00:27:57.059 story that has so little humanity to it. 648 00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:00.299 Peter's five, 10 minutes is omega. 649 00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:01.740 He's really really good. 650 00:28:01.799 --> 00:28:04.980 I mean, especially that bit in the studio where he's being dubbed 651 00:28:04.980 --> 00:28:06.779 by Ian Collier, so it's not even his voice. 652 00:28:06.839 --> 00:28:08.160 So he has to do it all with the face. 653 00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:13.319 And again, he manages to delineate the performance successfully 654 00:28:13.319 --> 00:28:16.079 just by tensing his face muscles, slightly playing it with a bit 655 00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:17.339 of a sneer. 656 00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:22.200 But I think importantly, and he did have trouble making sure he 657 00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:25.859 matched the tempo of being Colliers prerecorded lines. 658 00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:28.859 But it's kind of like a drag queen. 659 00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:30.839 They're a dragon. 660 00:28:30.900 --> 00:28:33.779 Yeah, and there are drag queens who lip sync really well and put 661 00:28:33.779 --> 00:28:36.900 emotion into it and there are drag queens who just move their 662 00:28:36.900 --> 00:28:37.140 lips. 663 00:28:37.380 --> 00:28:41.099 Peter Davidson is drag queen who puts emotion into it. 664 00:28:41.160 --> 00:28:42.720 I love to see that. 665 00:28:43.500 --> 00:28:46.859 Well, there's pretty much that episode of the Tomorrow people 666 00:28:46.859 --> 00:28:47.339 isn't it? 667 00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:48.299 That's almost it. 668 00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:51.059 I've been to Amsterdam as well, just once. 669 00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:53.220 And I stayed with friends. 670 00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:56.339 And I did explain to them that while I was there, I wanted to go 671 00:28:56.339 --> 00:28:57.599 looking for certain locations. 672 00:28:57.660 --> 00:29:00.900 And yeah, I went and found Frank and Dahl and what have you. 673 00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:02.339 But naturally they were curious. 674 00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:03.480 It's like, why? 675 00:29:03.539 --> 00:29:05.519 And I said, oh, well, have you heard a doctor? 676 00:29:05.579 --> 00:29:07.559 And they said, oh yeah, we've heard of it. not big here, but we 677 00:29:07.559 --> 00:29:08.039 have heard of it. 678 00:29:08.099 --> 00:29:09.480 I said, well, they filmed there once. 679 00:29:09.539 --> 00:29:11.099 Oh, you must bring it with you. 680 00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:11.759 Oh, dear. 681 00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:15.119 And this was before I'd recorded that commentary where I realised 682 00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:15.779 how terrible it was. 683 00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:19.259 So I said, yes, I'll bring it with me, and then after we recorded 684 00:29:19.259 --> 00:29:21.539 that commentary, I'm like, oh, no, I have to take this and show it 685 00:29:21.539 --> 00:29:23.220 to my friends in Amsterdam. 686 00:29:23.279 --> 00:29:24.240 So we sat down and watched it. 687 00:29:24.299 --> 00:29:28.740 They were hooting with laughter. 688 00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:31.079 They hated Nissa. 689 00:29:31.740 --> 00:29:35.220 Oh, they hated Nisa because she didn't shoot enough people. 690 00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:38.400 Like, that bit where she throws away a gun. 691 00:29:38.460 --> 00:29:39.660 Tim's just screaming at the scream. 692 00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:41.220 No, shoot them, shoot the ball. 693 00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:45.059 And then when she screamed at the Irkov, they're like, oh, can't 694 00:29:45.059 --> 00:29:45.720 we just kill her? 695 00:29:45.779 --> 00:29:48.299 And they didn't much care for Tegan. 696 00:29:48.359 --> 00:29:51.599 But at the end of episode 3 where the doctor says, oh, look, it 697 00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:54.660 controls the Matrix and the credits come up, they just turned to 698 00:29:54.660 --> 00:29:56.279 me and said, what does that mean? 699 00:29:56.339 --> 00:29:57.299 Yeah. 700 00:29:57.299 --> 00:29:57.960 Is that bad? 701 00:29:58.019 --> 00:30:01.799 And I said, I don't know. 702 00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:04.500 I honestly don't know. 703 00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:07.380 It must have been bad because it was the cliffhanger, but it is 704 00:30:07.380 --> 00:30:11.460 the worst word peril cliffhanger ever, apart from in a couple of 705 00:30:11.460 --> 00:30:12.299 stories. 706 00:30:12.420 --> 00:30:16.559 So when you went to Amsterdam, did you then go into any youth 707 00:30:16.559 --> 00:30:19.799 hostels and talk to the receptionist and they couldn't give you 708 00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:20.339 directions? 709 00:30:20.400 --> 00:30:22.319 So they just happened to talk to the person that could give you 710 00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:25.200 directions that just happened to be on there at the same time at 711 00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:25.619 the same day. 712 00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:28.079 Oh my goodness. 713 00:30:28.140 --> 00:30:29.880 She was just coming off her shift. was all. 714 00:30:29.940 --> 00:30:31.380 But it's just so convenient. 715 00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:34.259 I mean, for our younger listeners, obviously this is the time 716 00:30:34.259 --> 00:30:37.980 before internet, a time before a lot of computers. 717 00:30:38.039 --> 00:30:40.140 So everything was just written down in books and that sort of 718 00:30:40.140 --> 00:30:40.319 thing. 719 00:30:40.380 --> 00:30:44.039 But, you know, them in the convenience of having that receptionist 720 00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:46.079 there at that time just so they could give them the message. 721 00:30:46.140 --> 00:30:49.380 I just rolled my eyes going, oh, please let this be over. 722 00:30:49.500 --> 00:30:52.319 Yeah, it would have actually been better if she had just been the 723 00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:55.200 receptionist there when the doctor and Nissa come in. 724 00:30:55.259 --> 00:30:55.619 Simple. 725 00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:58.019 She's been rostered on 2 days in a row, but instead we've got this 726 00:30:58.019 --> 00:31:01.380 fake out of, oh, if only the right person was there. 727 00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:03.000 Hooray, she is. 728 00:31:03.059 --> 00:31:06.480 It's like, Episode 4 was already overrunning. 729 00:31:06.539 --> 00:31:09.779 They had to cut about 5 minutes out of it, and you keep that in. 730 00:31:10.500 --> 00:31:12.599 Now, Taken. 731 00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:14.160 It's very funny. 732 00:31:14.220 --> 00:31:17.460 In episode one, of course, Colin is Australian, and the moment 733 00:31:17.460 --> 00:31:20.519 that that's mentioned, like, you know, I get the Spidey sense 734 00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:22.200 going, oh, why is he Australian? 735 00:31:22.259 --> 00:31:24.299 And then they talk about the cousin, it's sort of like, you know 736 00:31:24.299 --> 00:31:27.119 I'm mourning the loss of Tegan from like the week before. 737 00:31:27.180 --> 00:31:30.839 And so it's sort of like, ooh, and then she turns up, like 738 00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:32.099 obviously in episode two. 739 00:31:32.339 --> 00:31:35.400 What do we think of her reintroduction? 740 00:31:35.460 --> 00:31:37.019 I really like her hair. 741 00:31:37.140 --> 00:31:41.099 I really like that she's wearing a different outfit. 742 00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:43.019 I don't like the outfit very much. 743 00:31:43.079 --> 00:31:44.819 I think it makes her bum look huge. 744 00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:46.559 Yeah, Janet hates the outfit. 745 00:31:46.680 --> 00:31:47.819 It's really baggy. 746 00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:49.019 It's not very attractive. 747 00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:50.519 I think the way she puts it is. 748 00:31:50.579 --> 00:31:53.579 Yeah, it makes the bum look huge and makes the front look flat. 749 00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:55.200 Yeah, you know, it's not good. 750 00:31:55.259 --> 00:31:58.319 It's a really strange choice of outfit to put her in. 751 00:31:58.380 --> 00:32:02.519 As for her return, I think she has moved the character on a bit 752 00:32:02.519 --> 00:32:06.839 you know, because her through line in season 19 was the stress of 753 00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:09.240 not being able to get back to her job and we find out in this 754 00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:10.500 story that she's lost her job. 755 00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:12.720 So she plays the role with less stress. 756 00:32:12.900 --> 00:32:16.619 I think she's really good in season 20 generally. 757 00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:19.440 I haven't watched it all the way through in preparation, but I'm 758 00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:20.039 about halfway through. 759 00:32:20.099 --> 00:32:22.440 And I've been really impressed with Jadet. 760 00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:26.220 And, you know, think back to that sort of Panto kids show acting 761 00:32:26.220 --> 00:32:30.839 she was doing. yeah, really early on And now she's actually quite 762 00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:31.380 likeable. 763 00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:36.660 And I made no secret of the fact that I adored Tegan when I 1st 764 00:32:36.660 --> 00:32:39.720 watched it when she was 1st on it. she was just terrific. 765 00:32:39.779 --> 00:32:46.140 She's not so great in season 18 and 19, but she's really nailed it 766 00:32:46.140 --> 00:32:46.500 by now. 767 00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:48.480 She's still strong. 768 00:32:48.539 --> 00:32:51.180 She still doesn't put up with any nonsense. 769 00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:54.539 She still has all of those sort of basic characteristics that the 770 00:32:54.539 --> 00:32:57.960 character is supposed to have, but she downplays it so much more. 771 00:32:58.019 --> 00:33:00.240 I think she's really likeable. 772 00:33:00.359 --> 00:33:04.380 Yeah, there's a big change, and I've commented before that I think 773 00:33:04.380 --> 00:33:06.480 in Black Orchard, once she gets drunk. 774 00:33:06.539 --> 00:33:08.640 In that whole story, there's a huge change. 775 00:33:08.700 --> 00:33:10.799 The character from that point on, it's so much better. 776 00:33:10.859 --> 00:33:14.460 And here again, it's another subtle changes and it's really good. 777 00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:19.079 I give this story like about 5 out of 10 and I think that's been 778 00:33:19.079 --> 00:33:23.700 generous. very But I give it a whole bonus mark more for the 779 00:33:23.700 --> 00:33:24.059 ending. 780 00:33:24.119 --> 00:33:25.500 The moment she's... 781 00:33:25.619 --> 00:33:29.640 No, honestly, I just laugh my head off the moment she says, I've 782 00:33:29.640 --> 00:33:30.240 lost my job. 783 00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:32.400 You know, you're stuck with me or whatever. 784 00:33:32.460 --> 00:33:36.660 And this is a static and then Peter just sells that moment so well 785 00:33:36.660 --> 00:33:41.160 that that smile and that grin and then the horrible realisation 786 00:33:41.160 --> 00:33:42.480 that she's back. 787 00:33:42.539 --> 00:33:44.759 You know, it's that quarter of a second. 788 00:33:44.819 --> 00:33:50.220 It's at 5 frames before the end credits cut in that his face just 789 00:33:50.220 --> 00:33:50.759 drops. 790 00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:53.039 It is such a good moment. 791 00:33:53.099 --> 00:33:55.019 No, look, I agree with you, Todd. 792 00:33:55.079 --> 00:33:57.240 I think this story, it's not bad. 793 00:33:57.299 --> 00:33:59.880 It's not insulting to our intelligence. 794 00:33:59.940 --> 00:34:00.599 It's just boring. 795 00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:05.579 I don't care about any of the supporting characters, including 796 00:34:05.579 --> 00:34:09.179 Omega, and you know, I cared about the Stephen Thorn Omega. 797 00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:12.239 He had an emotional journey, let's say. 798 00:34:12.300 --> 00:34:14.519 You know, he had emotional development. 799 00:34:14.579 --> 00:34:17.519 The closest thing I come to carry about a character is Maxwell. 800 00:34:17.579 --> 00:34:20.400 And it's kind of like, well, the problem is you'd never want 801 00:34:20.400 --> 00:34:21.659 Maxwell to succeed. 802 00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:24.239 But at the same time, you really like the performance and you 803 00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:25.320 really like the character. 804 00:34:25.380 --> 00:34:29.579 You know, when the De Castan actually chews him out for not doing 805 00:34:29.579 --> 00:34:31.320 his job and threatens to replace him. 806 00:34:31.380 --> 00:34:35.039 I think you get a bit of understanding about why he's like he is. 807 00:34:35.099 --> 00:34:36.659 He has to work for this bitch. 808 00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:41.639 I dislike Castellan, and I don't know why everyone's so unpleasant 809 00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:43.619 to the doctor when they're going to execute him. 810 00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:46.800 You'd think they'd make him a lovely meal and be super nice to him 811 00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:50.340 and say, sorry, old chap, but it's just so we're going to get rid 812 00:34:50.340 --> 00:34:50.639 of you. 813 00:34:50.699 --> 00:34:54.659 And then on just like a pivot point, they just change their minds 814 00:34:54.659 --> 00:34:57.719 like, boom, they just, oh, well, you know, we'll help you now. 815 00:34:57.780 --> 00:35:03.420 Yeah, this whole story, the whole story hinges on the time lords 816 00:35:03.420 --> 00:35:04.860 not being very nice. 817 00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:10.079 And I know that sounds weak, but Omega somehow contacts Hedden and 818 00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:12.780 Hedden agrees to give him the technology to move back into this 819 00:35:12.780 --> 00:35:13.320 universe. 820 00:35:13.380 --> 00:35:15.719 And it's like, you know what, Headen, mate? 821 00:35:15.780 --> 00:35:17.099 You're on the High Council. 822 00:35:17.159 --> 00:35:18.059 You got the presidency here. 823 00:35:18.119 --> 00:35:21.000 Why not walk in and say, I've heard from Omega and I've got a 824 00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:23.760 theory to bring him back and you know, he'll be back and he'll be 825 00:35:23.760 --> 00:35:24.360 able to work with us. 826 00:35:24.420 --> 00:35:31.920 And the lord president in the 3 doctors seemed reluctant to kill 827 00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:35.579 Omega, and Barusa here doesn't seem too bloodthirsty. 828 00:35:35.639 --> 00:35:36.780 It's all about the antimatter. 829 00:35:36.840 --> 00:35:39.360 So, you know, if Edna just said, hey, let's everyone work 830 00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:39.840 together. 831 00:35:40.019 --> 00:35:42.780 They wouldn't have needed subterfuge. 832 00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:45.840 And again, as you say with the doctor, it's like, let's recall 833 00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:46.139 him. 834 00:35:46.199 --> 00:35:47.340 Let's not tell him what it's about. 835 00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:48.119 Let's lock him up. 836 00:35:48.179 --> 00:35:49.800 Let's chase him with guards. 837 00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:52.619 Zorik's like every time he returns, there's violence. 838 00:35:52.679 --> 00:35:54.480 It's the ultimate stop hitting yourself. 839 00:35:55.679 --> 00:35:58.980 Maybe it's a satire of 80s office culture. 840 00:35:59.039 --> 00:36:01.920 If only the different departments talk to each other. 841 00:36:01.920 --> 00:36:04.679 And, you know, I'm sure Richard will sympathise with this if only 842 00:36:04.679 --> 00:36:06.360 the different departments talk to each other. 843 00:36:06.420 --> 00:36:09.840 Okay, we wouldn't have a story, but we'd have a better outcome. 844 00:36:09.900 --> 00:36:13.500 Yeah, well, all of that stuff about Omega is just completely 845 00:36:13.500 --> 00:36:17.639 absent from this story and he's just the name of a bad guy played 846 00:36:17.639 --> 00:36:18.900 by Ian Collier. 847 00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:20.099 You were right. 848 00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:23.519 There is something about Omega. 849 00:36:23.579 --> 00:36:25.860 If Gallifrey were a properly mythic place. 850 00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:27.300 Moffatt gets this right. 851 00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:32.760 We've been back to Galifre in the new series and it's a huge event 852 00:36:32.760 --> 00:36:36.539 and it looks mythic and impressive. 853 00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:40.440 It's not just a bunch of space corridors with foiled wallpaper. 854 00:36:40.500 --> 00:36:44.099 And the reason that Gammafray is mythic and impressive is because 855 00:36:44.099 --> 00:36:49.559 Omega sacrificed his life and was abandoned and all of that stuff 856 00:36:49.559 --> 00:36:53.219 that made him interesting, even though he was written by Bob Baker 857 00:36:53.219 --> 00:36:57.840 and Dave Martin, is completely absent here, he's just generic bad 858 00:36:57.840 --> 00:36:58.260 guy. 859 00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:03.000 It's what's the point of bringing him back at all if you're not 860 00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:06.360 going to bring back any of the things that actually define his 861 00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:07.079 character. 862 00:37:08.760 --> 00:37:12.239 It's not a bad story, like Black Hawk. 863 00:37:12.360 --> 00:37:15.420 The Black Orchid is a bad story, and I mean morally as well as in 864 00:37:15.420 --> 00:37:16.079 terms of quality. 865 00:37:16.139 --> 00:37:18.059 But this is just... 866 00:37:18.059 --> 00:37:22.019 No, I think this is much worse than bad than bad orchid. 867 00:37:22.019 --> 00:37:23.579 Is that what it's called? 868 00:37:23.639 --> 00:37:25.500 I think it's much worse than that. 869 00:37:25.559 --> 00:37:26.099 I agree. 870 00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:27.780 It's time flight levels of bad. 871 00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:32.099 I think this is a run of 8 episodes that really have absolutely 872 00:37:32.099 --> 00:37:34.139 nothing going for them. 873 00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:36.900 You know, you've got Eric Saywood script editing. 874 00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:39.780 Eight episodes of conscriminating, and it's just awful. 875 00:37:39.900 --> 00:37:42.480 And it's directed by Ron Jones, who's just awful. 876 00:37:42.539 --> 00:37:45.360 The weird thing is, and you know, I say last week, I quite like 877 00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:46.079 Time Flight. 878 00:37:46.139 --> 00:37:49.800 But Time Flight and Arc of Infinity are both written by very good 879 00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:52.139 sci-fi writers. 880 00:37:52.199 --> 00:37:55.559 You know, people who write very good sci-fi concepts and we'll see 881 00:37:55.559 --> 00:37:58.559 again in a couple of weeks with Peter Grimwade, what he can do 882 00:37:58.559 --> 00:38:00.119 with a good sci-fi concept. 883 00:38:00.179 --> 00:38:04.139 But you know, Johnny Byrne, he wrote real, if you like real world 884 00:38:04.139 --> 00:38:06.719 drama as well, like drama set in the real world. 885 00:38:06.840 --> 00:38:08.699 But Space 1999. 886 00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:13.860 He was a huge force behind space 1999 year one, which wasn't 887 00:38:13.860 --> 00:38:17.400 always successful, but always had interesting ideas and executed 888 00:38:17.400 --> 00:38:18.059 them interestingly. 889 00:38:18.119 --> 00:38:19.920 What's also interesting? 890 00:38:19.980 --> 00:38:23.099 The show comes back to just over 7000000 viewers for this season. 891 00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:26.219 Now last year it averaged 9 million. 892 00:38:26.280 --> 00:38:30.119 Right. 2000000 people have decided not to tune in in the 20th 893 00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:30.659 year. 894 00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:32.219 Do you know I was one of them. 895 00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:33.239 I think I said that before. 896 00:38:33.300 --> 00:38:36.719 I didn't tune in to Arc of Infinity, episode one because I was so 897 00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:39.840 annoyed about Tegan being left behind in time flight. 898 00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:41.639 It was really distressing. 899 00:38:41.699 --> 00:38:45.960 I found that really distressing after Adrick's death to have that 900 00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:46.860 happen on top of that. 901 00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:49.380 But at the beginning of the last story. 902 00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:52.079 Time flight, episode one got 10 million, right? 903 00:38:52.139 --> 00:38:53.400 26th on the chart. 904 00:38:53.699 --> 00:38:57.179 After that, Doctor Who never gets over 9000000 again. 905 00:38:57.239 --> 00:38:59.039 By the end of that story, they're down to 8.one. 906 00:38:59.099 --> 00:39:00.480 They've dropped another 1000000 here. 907 00:39:00.539 --> 00:39:02.699 You know, there's, I've got a theory here. 908 00:39:02.760 --> 00:39:05.340 You know, there's fans of a certain age who are about 5 years 909 00:39:05.340 --> 00:39:06.059 older than me. 910 00:39:06.059 --> 00:39:09.179 I really hate Adrick and hated Adrick at the time and you see it 911 00:39:09.179 --> 00:39:11.460 in all the commentaries about how we didn't like this teenage 912 00:39:11.460 --> 00:39:11.760 boy. 913 00:39:11.820 --> 00:39:15.480 The ones that are a bit younger, perhaps around my age, were kids 914 00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:16.800 and Adric dies, and he's a kid. 915 00:39:16.860 --> 00:39:18.000 And they didn't like that. 916 00:39:18.059 --> 00:39:20.400 And so the kids aren't tuning... 917 00:39:20.460 --> 00:39:23.280 Well, I've just made that up on the spot, but I'm just saying 918 00:39:23.280 --> 00:39:27.059 they're not tuning in and we've now lost 3000000 viewers in the 919 00:39:27.059 --> 00:39:27.780 space of 5 episodes. 920 00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:28.380 Yeah. 921 00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:33.179 And the thing is, if the 10-year-old child of a family is not 922 00:39:33.179 --> 00:39:36.300 tuning into Doctor Who, that's 3 or 4 people who aren't watching. 923 00:39:36.360 --> 00:39:38.880 Because mum and dad aren't watching. 924 00:39:38.940 --> 00:39:39.900 Gran's not watching. 925 00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:42.719 Granddad's not watching the older siblings who wouldn't normally 926 00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:45.420 watch by themselves, but watch because their younger brother or 927 00:39:45.420 --> 00:39:46.260 sister enjoys it. 928 00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:46.920 They're not watching. 929 00:39:46.980 --> 00:39:49.679 So you have another impact in 3 or 4 years time. 930 00:39:49.739 --> 00:39:51.360 I think you're onto something there, Todd. 931 00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:54.300 Are we done with this thing yet? 932 00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:55.139 just want to move on. 933 00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:58.079 I just want to give you the impression of how good it could have 934 00:39:58.079 --> 00:39:58.320 been. 935 00:39:58.920 --> 00:40:02.219 What, a different director, a different cast and a different 936 00:40:02.219 --> 00:40:02.820 script? 937 00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:04.019 Well, a different cast. 938 00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:07.139 Considered for the role of Maxwell was Pierce Brosnan. 939 00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:10.440 Considered for the role of Thalia. 940 00:40:10.500 --> 00:40:16.019 Linda Bellingham, Anna Blackman, and Jenny Lindon. 941 00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:19.380 Barbara from Doctor Who and the Daleks. 942 00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:20.760 Let's consider it for Dahlia. 943 00:40:20.820 --> 00:40:22.019 I like Dahlia. 944 00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:25.679 I think she's often overlooked for Chancellor Flavia, but I like 945 00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:25.980 her. 946 00:40:26.039 --> 00:40:27.840 Did they try and get Thalia back? 947 00:40:27.900 --> 00:40:29.460 they tried to get everyone back, didn't they? 948 00:40:29.579 --> 00:40:33.000 They did try to get Elsbeth Gray back for the 5 doctors. 949 00:40:33.059 --> 00:40:35.159 She may have even been shooting Black Adder at that time because 950 00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:36.000 that was 1983. 951 00:40:36.119 --> 00:40:36.539 Okay. 952 00:40:36.539 --> 00:40:38.519 But yeah, she wasn't available to come back. 953 00:40:38.579 --> 00:40:42.119 Yeah, I think it's just horrible how in the in the high council 954 00:40:42.119 --> 00:40:44.099 scene where they're arguing with Nissa. 955 00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:47.400 She gets some really good lines about, you know, the morality of 956 00:40:47.400 --> 00:40:48.960 the situation of what would you have us do? 957 00:40:48.960 --> 00:40:50.579 And it's all in bloody long shot. 958 00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:52.440 Give us Elspeth Gray's face. 959 00:40:52.500 --> 00:40:53.880 She's brilliant. 960 00:40:53.940 --> 00:40:57.480 Yeah, in the end, just massive, massive missed opportunity. 961 00:40:57.539 --> 00:40:59.820 A series of continuing disappointments. 962 00:41:20.880 --> 00:41:24.659 Well, as we take off from Amsterdam, Hopefully, nothing in our 963 00:41:24.659 --> 00:41:27.059 luggage that'll be too embarrassing to get through customs. 964 00:41:27.119 --> 00:41:31.079 We'll be back next week where we'll be talking about the sequel to 965 00:41:31.079 --> 00:41:35.940 last season's critically acclaimed Kinder with Snake Dance. 966 00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:38.639 Until then, you can find us on our new website, flatthrough 967 00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:42.119 entirety.sexy, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and 968 00:41:42.119 --> 00:41:44.099 FTE podcast on Twitter. 969 00:41:44.159 --> 00:41:46.260 Over on Bondfinger. 970 00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:49.739 We currently have all the Bond films commentated up to and 971 00:41:49.739 --> 00:41:51.960 including the spy who loved me. 972 00:41:52.019 --> 00:41:55.619 Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and Bond Finger 973 00:41:55.619 --> 00:41:56.639 cast on Twitter. 974 00:41:56.699 --> 00:42:02.280 Today on YouTube, you can find Doctor Who in 10 seconds season 975 00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:03.179 six. 976 00:42:03.300 --> 00:42:06.900 So that's gone up and seasons one to 5 are also available. 977 00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:10.260 But until next week, thank you very much for listening. 978 00:42:10.320 --> 00:42:14.280 And may none of your giant chicken heads look like an ergon. 979 00:42:14.340 --> 00:42:15.719 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 980 00:42:15.780 --> 00:42:21.900 Good night. see you soon That was Flight through Entirety, starting 981 00:42:21.900 --> 00:42:24.300 Todd Building, Nathan Bottomley, and Brendan Jones. 982 00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:26.400 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 983 00:42:26.460 --> 00:42:30.420 This episode, sofas all around Gallifrey, was recorded on the 26th 984 00:42:30.420 --> 00:42:31.500 of July 2016. 985 00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:34.619 The next episode will be released on the 7th of August. 986 00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:39.420 Fans of things resolved by the hero just shooting the villain with 987 00:42:39.420 --> 00:42:42.780 a big gun will also enjoy attack of the cybermen, the invasion of 988 00:42:42.780 --> 00:42:46.739 time, and the entire sociopolitical system of the United States of 989 00:42:46.739 --> 00:42:47.400 America. 990 00:42:48.119 --> 00:42:53.760 Okay. so much. 991 00:42:54.179 --> 00:42:56.820 Okay, I'll do the out train now.