WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 16:20:27 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.919 Hello everyone, Brendan here. 2 00:00:01.980 --> 00:00:04.320 I just wanted to give you all a quick update on Flight Through 3 00:00:04.320 --> 00:00:06.480 Entirety before we start the episode proper. 4 00:00:06.540 --> 00:00:09.599 We've got a situation in the next couple of months where it's 5 00:00:09.599 --> 00:00:12.900 going to be difficult for us all to get together to record. 6 00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:18.539 So we've taken the decision that after this week, our snake dance 7 00:00:18.539 --> 00:00:19.260 episode. 8 00:00:19.320 --> 00:00:22.620 We're going to be going fortnightly until the beginning of season 9 00:00:22.620 --> 00:00:27.120 21, possibly a few episodes in there, but during season 21, we 10 00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:28.320 will go back to weekly. 11 00:00:28.379 --> 00:00:32.100 At this stage, we're hoping to keep Bondfinger on monthly. 12 00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:35.700 And yeah, just a fortnightly. schedule for flight through 13 00:00:35.700 --> 00:00:36.240 entirety. 14 00:00:36.299 --> 00:00:39.960 It was either that or put all of season 20 out weekly and then 15 00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:44.340 have a long break and um, well, we have done that before this time 16 00:00:44.340 --> 00:00:47.820 we decided we wanted to keep our releases up as long as possible. 17 00:00:47.880 --> 00:00:50.640 There may be a little bit of a gap in November depending on what 18 00:00:50.640 --> 00:00:52.380 we can get recorded in the next month. 19 00:00:52.439 --> 00:00:54.840 But thank you very much for understanding. 20 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:57.659 There will still be regular episodes of Flight Through Entirety. 21 00:00:57.719 --> 00:00:59.700 Sorry this one's a bit late, but I do hope you enjoy it. 22 00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:00.299 Thank you. 23 00:01:31.859 --> 00:01:36.299 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety 24 00:01:36.299 --> 00:01:39.420 the only Doctor Who podcast hosted by the Five Phases of 25 00:01:39.420 --> 00:01:39.959 Delusion. 26 00:01:40.019 --> 00:01:40.560 I'm Brendan. 27 00:01:40.620 --> 00:01:41.400 I'm Nathan. 28 00:01:41.459 --> 00:01:42.959 And I'm Todd. 29 00:01:43.019 --> 00:01:44.159 I'm not deluded. 30 00:01:44.459 --> 00:01:49.439 The others will disagree with me. this particular recording, but I 31 00:01:49.439 --> 00:01:50.640 swear to God I'm not. 32 00:01:50.700 --> 00:01:54.599 But the listener may find themselves deluded by the time we get to 33 00:01:54.599 --> 00:01:57.299 the end of the sequel to Kinder, snake dance. 34 00:02:10.020 --> 00:02:13.199 Well, this is mine, and I've really got nothing. 35 00:02:13.259 --> 00:02:15.120 I have no opinion on this story at all. 36 00:02:15.240 --> 00:02:16.319 Excellent. 37 00:02:16.379 --> 00:02:16.860 So can I talk? 38 00:02:16.919 --> 00:02:17.580 Yeah, yes. 39 00:02:17.639 --> 00:02:18.960 I'm gonna throw it to Todd. 40 00:02:19.020 --> 00:02:23.580 So I wasn't here for the love fest that was Kinder, where I almost 41 00:02:23.580 --> 00:02:25.979 wanted to bath in my breakfast. 42 00:02:26.039 --> 00:02:29.819 My opinion of Kinder is a bit different to everybody else's. 43 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:34.439 And I quite like it now, especially the Mary Morris stuff. 44 00:02:34.500 --> 00:02:37.680 But I don't connect with Hindle. 45 00:02:37.680 --> 00:02:38.340 Hindle. 46 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:40.379 That leads me Stone Cold Dead. 47 00:02:40.439 --> 00:02:42.360 I don't like all the stuff in Tegan's mind. 48 00:02:42.419 --> 00:02:45.960 And so I know you guys put some really good point of view across 49 00:02:45.960 --> 00:02:48.120 on all of that and I can understand where you're coming from. 50 00:02:48.180 --> 00:02:50.219 But I give it to six, 6.5 . 51 00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:51.840 As a child. 52 00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:55.620 Kinder was my most hated Doctor Who story of all time. 53 00:02:56.819 --> 00:02:58.680 When I watched it. 54 00:02:58.740 --> 00:03:00.240 I literally gave it one out of 10. 55 00:03:00.539 --> 00:03:04.379 So when I came to this story, Snake Dance, you can imagine my 56 00:03:04.379 --> 00:03:10.259 overwhelming joy at having the Mara back for this. 57 00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:14.039 And I gave this less than what I gave to Kingdom. 58 00:03:14.099 --> 00:03:14.819 Really? 59 00:03:14.819 --> 00:03:22.979 So that's where I'm coming from with this entire story and 60 00:03:22.979 --> 00:03:23.580 podcast. 61 00:03:23.639 --> 00:03:29.099 So if Kinder has gone up, obviously, 6 times over in my opinion. 62 00:03:29.159 --> 00:03:33.180 When I came to this, I knew that I knew in my heart that, you know 63 00:03:33.180 --> 00:03:36.659 it was something that I hoped that I would discover would be, you 64 00:03:36.659 --> 00:03:38.159 know, at least better than what I thought. 65 00:03:38.280 --> 00:03:42.419 And I have to say, I think of all the Peter Davidsons, this is my 66 00:03:42.419 --> 00:03:44.699 biggest surprise of the whole lot. 67 00:03:44.759 --> 00:03:47.400 I really enjoyed watching. 68 00:03:47.460 --> 00:03:49.620 The majority of this story. 69 00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:51.900 It's not without its faults, including virtually all of the 70 00:03:51.900 --> 00:03:54.659 episode 3 where the doctor is locked in a cell and I just think is 71 00:03:54.659 --> 00:03:58.259 just tedious to the extreme and stops the story dead. 72 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:04.919 But, The thing that I found really intriguing with this is that I 73 00:04:04.919 --> 00:04:11.580 start off really interested in the 3 leads, like, so imagine a bar 74 00:04:11.580 --> 00:04:15.120 graph where my interest in with them and their characterisation. 75 00:04:15.180 --> 00:04:18.480 As the story goes on, my interest in them and their 76 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:19.199 characterisation. 77 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:21.240 As the story goes on, my interest in. 78 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:25.860 At the start of this story, I'm confronted with some stupid woman 79 00:04:25.860 --> 00:04:30.660 in a marketplace, some over the top seller of hall of mirrors, this 80 00:04:30.660 --> 00:04:34.259 brat, his stuck up mother, and some other idiot in government. 81 00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:37.860 But that's my 10 year old self thinking. 82 00:04:37.920 --> 00:04:41.579 So I start off with, no, limited interest. 83 00:04:41.639 --> 00:04:45.360 But the absolute joy is, as I was watching this, like within 84 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:45.779 moments. 85 00:04:45.899 --> 00:04:51.360 These other characters in the cast, either so 3 and four, I just 86 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:52.379 want to know all about them. 87 00:04:52.439 --> 00:04:53.339 Yeah, yeah. 88 00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:56.699 And you guys have had a love fest with Fiona coming from the 89 00:04:56.699 --> 00:04:59.759 moment she started directing, and I think that she's quite weak 90 00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:01.920 when it comes to doing big technical stuff. 91 00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:08.279 But this story just opened my eyes, she is fantastic at casting 92 00:05:08.279 --> 00:05:12.120 the right people to bring these characters to life, and it is the 93 00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:15.420 absolute strength of his story, and I just adored it. 94 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:18.959 The great thing about this story, the other great thing is that 95 00:05:18.959 --> 00:05:19.920 there's a world. 96 00:05:19.980 --> 00:05:25.680 So, Manusa, which is partly for humanity, in fact, humankind. 97 00:05:25.740 --> 00:05:30.000 Seems like a kind of place that has a history and a backstory and 98 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:30.480 things. 99 00:05:30.540 --> 00:05:34.259 And the fun thing about it is a lot of that backstory is revealed 100 00:05:34.259 --> 00:05:39.420 to us in conversation with Tanha and Long, her son. 101 00:05:39.480 --> 00:05:43.680 And that backstory could have just been an exposition dump, but 102 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:47.040 the relationship between those 2 characters is so great. 103 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:49.500 It's so great. 104 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:50.879 So he's bored. 105 00:05:50.939 --> 00:05:53.819 She's terrifically, insanely posh. 106 00:05:53.879 --> 00:05:57.360 The 2 of them really kind of like each other. 107 00:05:57.420 --> 00:05:59.759 He's naughty and unpleasant. 108 00:05:59.819 --> 00:06:04.379 We're going to next story, have, you know, a posh person who is 109 00:06:04.379 --> 00:06:10.199 obnoxious and and sows trouble, you know, and likes to irritate 110 00:06:10.199 --> 00:06:10.500 people. 111 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:14.519 But Martin Cloons in this is just terrific as that character. 112 00:06:14.579 --> 00:06:20.939 Um, it's, There's a, there's a scene, I think, later on where Tan 113 00:06:20.939 --> 00:06:26.759 has not talking to him because he was really rude to Amber in the 114 00:06:26.759 --> 00:06:29.100 caves and he's being naughty and stuff. 115 00:06:29.160 --> 00:06:33.420 And then later on, she says something to him and he goes, am I 116 00:06:33.420 --> 00:06:35.939 forgiven mother and she says, oh, aren't you always? 117 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:39.420 It's just, it's just terrific. 118 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:40.800 And we never see the federator. 119 00:06:40.860 --> 00:06:41.759 We never see their father. 120 00:06:41.819 --> 00:06:45.899 But he's got a well-defined character and they're really funny. 121 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:47.279 Exactly. 122 00:06:47.339 --> 00:06:49.920 You see his character and he's not even there. 123 00:06:49.980 --> 00:06:51.839 And then it's such a strength. 124 00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:53.819 Those 2 work so well together. 125 00:06:53.879 --> 00:06:55.199 And Martin Clunes. 126 00:06:55.259 --> 00:06:56.939 The performance is just brilliant. 127 00:06:57.000 --> 00:06:59.639 I mean, he's mega fit as well, can I just say? 128 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:00.360 Like, you know? 129 00:07:00.420 --> 00:07:04.560 Yeah, he looks he looks great and he, again, it's what you were 130 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:05.279 saying about casting. 131 00:07:05.639 --> 00:07:10.319 The casting is so good because at this stage in his life, he is 132 00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:13.560 very pretty and sort of classically good looking. 133 00:07:13.620 --> 00:07:16.500 And when he's, you know, he's very still at times and he's 134 00:07:16.500 --> 00:07:19.319 standing like a Grecian statue and he's got the very full features 135 00:07:19.319 --> 00:07:20.160 of his face. 136 00:07:20.220 --> 00:07:21.839 His lips are enormous. 137 00:07:21.899 --> 00:07:25.680 You know, he has that classical look. 138 00:07:25.740 --> 00:07:30.420 And you've got John Carson as Ambrill, you know, and he is 139 00:07:30.420 --> 00:07:36.240 wonderfully pompous, and you've got Jonathan Morris as Sheila, and 140 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:36.839 he's lovely. 141 00:07:36.899 --> 00:07:39.240 Like you were saying last week, Todd, the chemistry between Damon 142 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:40.139 and Nissa was great. 143 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:44.699 It's just turned up to 15 with Sheila and Nissa, you know. 144 00:07:44.759 --> 00:07:46.379 They are so adorable together. 145 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:50.519 He's really pretty and Fiona, of course, wins points again as the 146 00:07:50.519 --> 00:07:53.160 director by putting men in dresses, right? 147 00:07:53.220 --> 00:07:54.839 She always does. as she always does. 148 00:07:54.959 --> 00:08:00.360 I do, I do think this, however, that, you know, again, when it's 149 00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:04.139 him and Mr. and the doctor, Mr. becomes the 3rd wheel, and it's 150 00:08:04.139 --> 00:08:07.379 one of the disappointments I find in this story is the fact that 151 00:08:07.379 --> 00:08:11.160 the last time out, he didn't even write her into the story, nobody 152 00:08:11.160 --> 00:08:13.439 bothered, like the easiest thing was to write her out rather than 153 00:08:13.439 --> 00:08:14.160 to write her in. 154 00:08:14.220 --> 00:08:16.560 Here she's here, but she's very perfunctory. 155 00:08:16.620 --> 00:08:19.800 Obviously, Tegan takes the most of the limelight because of her 156 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:20.699 mental condition. 157 00:08:20.759 --> 00:08:22.379 But what's Nissa given to do? 158 00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:24.420 This is given to look after Tegan. 159 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:25.379 She fails at that. 160 00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:28.379 Then, of course, she comes back to her, and then she runs off, and 161 00:08:28.379 --> 00:08:31.439 then she fails to find her, and then the doctor gives Nissa the 162 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:34.620 great thing of trying to get him out of the cell, and lo and 163 00:08:34.620 --> 00:08:35.580 behold, what does she get to do? 164 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:40.200 rough a few a few pages on a desk, go down a bland corridor and 165 00:08:40.200 --> 00:08:41.039 she fails at that. 166 00:08:41.100 --> 00:08:45.480 You know, her 3 big moments in this story are screening, fantastic 167 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:47.759 scream at the end of the cliffhanger where they're going to be all 168 00:08:47.759 --> 00:08:50.940 killed, being a bitch to the doctor when he tries to help her down 169 00:08:50.940 --> 00:08:55.440 off the Rockcliff, and in episode one when she turns up wearing 170 00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:59.519 the most hideous, biggest bow thing ever. 171 00:08:59.580 --> 00:09:00.480 They're her 3 moments. 172 00:09:00.539 --> 00:09:02.399 And Sarah Sutton does a wonderful job. 173 00:09:02.519 --> 00:09:03.539 Yeah, yeah, she's great. 174 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:07.200 But I just think the character, again, of the 3 regulars in this 175 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:11.820 unfortunately, I just think gets pushed very much for me anyway. 176 00:09:11.879 --> 00:09:14.460 I just don't think I wanted more after last week. 177 00:09:14.519 --> 00:09:15.720 I wanted her to have more. 178 00:09:15.779 --> 00:09:18.240 I just wanted more, and in this, I just was disappointed. 179 00:09:18.299 --> 00:09:21.840 See, I think last week was a bit of a tour de force for Nessa. 180 00:09:21.899 --> 00:09:25.679 And so this week becomes a more of a tour de force for Tegan. 181 00:09:25.799 --> 00:09:30.059 And Janet Hamara performance in this, much like her performances 182 00:09:30.059 --> 00:09:31.559 Tegan. moved on from last year. 183 00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:35.639 And I think that it's a polarising performance. 184 00:09:35.700 --> 00:09:38.340 I've heard people expressing different opinions. 185 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:41.639 Richard and I were actually discussing it early this week because 186 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:44.399 he was saying, oh, you know, I'm looking forward to hearing you 187 00:09:44.399 --> 00:09:45.600 guys talk about snake dance. 188 00:09:45.659 --> 00:09:48.539 I think it's going to be really fun, but here's what I think. 189 00:09:48.600 --> 00:09:52.500 He and I are of the same mind that Janet is just really electric 190 00:09:52.500 --> 00:09:53.340 in this. 191 00:09:54.000 --> 00:09:58.080 Richard's also cited John Carson, who I mentioned earlier. 192 00:09:58.139 --> 00:10:00.840 I want to come back to something you were saying earlier, Todd 193 00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:03.179 about the doctor being locked up for all of episode three. 194 00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:05.639 It is a common problem in the Davis era. 195 00:10:05.700 --> 00:10:10.440 And it reaches its Nadir with Colin, and that is not the fault of 196 00:10:10.440 --> 00:10:11.580 Davidson or Colin. 197 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:15.539 But I think this is one story where it actually works. 198 00:10:15.899 --> 00:10:17.639 I disagree. 199 00:10:17.700 --> 00:10:19.500 Why do you think that, though? 200 00:10:21.059 --> 00:10:25.559 This is a story in which the Mara can only be defeated at a 201 00:10:25.559 --> 00:10:26.039 certain moment. 202 00:10:26.100 --> 00:10:28.620 It can't be defeated before that moment comes. 203 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:30.299 It can't be defeated after that moment. 204 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:32.820 It has to be defeated in the moment of its becoming, which the 205 00:10:32.820 --> 00:10:37.019 doctor will retread next week when Tegan asks him about it. 206 00:10:37.139 --> 00:10:40.259 So the doctor has to be locked up. 207 00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:44.279 He has to be locked up for episode 3 because otherwise he won't be 208 00:10:44.279 --> 00:10:47.279 in the right position to do anything in episode four. 209 00:10:47.340 --> 00:10:50.639 So normally when the doctor's locked up like that, it's just a 210 00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:54.240 delaying tactic to spin the story out and prevent him getting to 211 00:10:54.240 --> 00:10:54.960 its resolution. 212 00:10:55.019 --> 00:10:57.539 Now, the thing is here, it's still a delaying tactic to prevent 213 00:10:57.539 --> 00:11:00.779 the story getting to its resolution, but that prevention is 214 00:11:00.779 --> 00:11:04.500 actually built into the plan of the plot. 215 00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:06.840 The other reason I really like the doctor getting locked up. 216 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:10.620 And again, this is something I was discussing with Richard. 217 00:11:10.799 --> 00:11:14.220 As Richard puts it, Pete is the anti-Tom. 218 00:11:14.279 --> 00:11:16.860 So Tom would walk into a room and say, you're all in terrible 219 00:11:16.860 --> 00:11:17.460 danger. 220 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:20.159 Something terrible, mysterious is about to happen. 221 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:21.779 And people would go, oh, right, okay. 222 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:23.580 Well, you come over here and you take charge then. 223 00:11:23.639 --> 00:11:26.580 Whereas Pete walks in and says that and everyone goes, he's a 224 00:11:26.580 --> 00:11:27.240 bloody nutter. 225 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:31.259 Chuck him in the cells until the party's over, which is what real 226 00:11:31.259 --> 00:11:31.860 people would do. 227 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:34.500 In fact, that stuff is great. 228 00:11:34.559 --> 00:11:36.840 And that's something that Xander refers to as well. 229 00:11:36.899 --> 00:11:41.279 Pete's actually a little bit more manic in his performance in this 230 00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:41.879 story. 231 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:44.639 And so he does look like a madman. 232 00:11:44.700 --> 00:11:48.480 He does look like someone who's, uh, you know, and we gather that 233 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:53.220 there's a whole history of people kind of obsessed with the Mara 234 00:11:53.220 --> 00:11:56.940 and with sort of crazy theories about the Mara and Amber, who's 235 00:11:56.940 --> 00:12:02.039 this academic, who's terribly pompous and self-important, um, is 236 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:04.379 used to just dismissing those people as crackpots. 237 00:12:04.440 --> 00:12:07.799 And Pete looks like a bit of a crackpot, the way he comes around. 238 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:11.639 And of course, that's why Amber gets so incredibly angry when Pete 239 00:12:11.639 --> 00:12:14.639 points out about the 5 faces of delusion. 240 00:12:14.700 --> 00:12:16.200 That was so brilliant. 241 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:20.820 That whole, like, just the 3 actors and the way they perform it. 242 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:24.840 Like Pete is just utterly sincere and, oh, I'm teaching you 243 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:28.620 something here and John Carson, as Amber, is outraged and Sheila 244 00:12:28.620 --> 00:12:32.279 is trying not to wet his pants laughing. 245 00:12:32.340 --> 00:12:35.220 It's such a beautiful little scene. 246 00:12:35.279 --> 00:12:39.360 Yeah, it's not like it has any major bearing on the plot later. 247 00:12:39.419 --> 00:12:41.519 Like the helmet doesn't become important or anything. 248 00:12:41.580 --> 00:12:44.580 It's not a McGuffin, but it's thematic. 249 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:48.059 It's the doctor is the outsider who is able to see the whole 250 00:12:48.059 --> 00:12:49.139 pattern of what's going on. 251 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:51.840 Whereas these supposed experts. 252 00:12:51.899 --> 00:12:54.059 Can't see the whole pattern because they don't see their place 253 00:12:54.059 --> 00:12:57.240 within it. think it's a beautiful moment. 254 00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:00.120 I think one of the things when I was watching this is that I felt 255 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:02.340 that the doctor came across as being autistic. 256 00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:04.080 In many ways. 257 00:13:04.139 --> 00:13:07.080 Like Misa walks in in this new costume and he doesn't even 258 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:08.159 register that change. 259 00:13:08.220 --> 00:13:11.879 When he's talking to Amberl and trying to get his point across 260 00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:15.720 he's oblivious to any of the cues to say you're not getting your 261 00:13:15.720 --> 00:13:16.200 point across. 262 00:13:16.259 --> 00:13:20.340 I mean, I teach kids with autism who can't see people's emotions 263 00:13:20.340 --> 00:13:21.059 and that sort of thing. 264 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:23.100 So that's the way it came across to me. 265 00:13:23.159 --> 00:13:25.679 I know it's supposed to be like it's supposed to be alien and that 266 00:13:25.679 --> 00:13:28.019 sort of thing, but well, for the last bit of run where I felt 267 00:13:28.019 --> 00:13:31.919 Peter's just been very nice, you know, and suddenly, suddenly 268 00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:34.740 there's this sort of big contrast in what he's doing. 269 00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:37.740 I mean, I actually think it's really good that I can see this sort 270 00:13:37.740 --> 00:13:39.779 of frustration in the doctorate. 271 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:43.559 It reminds me of perchway in season 7 where he sort of barges in 272 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:45.539 and everybody, you know, and is having a go at people saying 273 00:13:45.539 --> 00:13:46.679 warning them and they're not listening. 274 00:13:46.740 --> 00:13:50.340 I think that's really good And it sells it with Amber, who I think 275 00:13:50.340 --> 00:13:52.679 his performance is actually, I think, one of the best Amber or 2 276 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:54.299 because that character could be really crap. 277 00:13:54.360 --> 00:13:57.899 But you know when you meet reasonable people who can argue any 278 00:13:57.899 --> 00:14:01.019 point of view based on their interpretation of facts. 279 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:04.679 But, you know, their interpretation is very narrow. 280 00:14:04.799 --> 00:14:07.620 Yes, but they're perfectly reasonable to themselves and everybody 281 00:14:07.620 --> 00:14:08.100 around them. 282 00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:10.679 You know, and I think he does just a brilliant job with that. 283 00:14:10.740 --> 00:14:15.720 In the 2nd half of the story, I just feel like the doctor is in 284 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:21.840 that cell, I don't feel like there's any great, maybe 285 00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:22.799 characterisation. 286 00:14:22.860 --> 00:14:25.620 He gets to go and meet the man with the snakes and then come back 287 00:14:25.620 --> 00:14:26.279 and save the day. 288 00:14:26.340 --> 00:14:29.100 So I really like the doctor's characterisation in those 1st 2 289 00:14:29.100 --> 00:14:29.399 episodes. 290 00:14:29.460 --> 00:14:32.340 I want to go back and watch I actually want to go back and watch 291 00:14:32.340 --> 00:14:36.539 the 1st 2 episodes because I had that sort of thing in my head is 292 00:14:36.539 --> 00:14:38.460 about the doctor's performance. 293 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:41.879 Having watched now ahead in season 21 and seeing what Peter's 294 00:14:41.879 --> 00:14:43.320 doing in season 21, which I think is great. 295 00:14:43.379 --> 00:14:45.960 It's like, this is why I want to come back and watch that. 296 00:14:46.019 --> 00:14:49.799 But the 2nd episodes I'm less inclined with his character and 297 00:14:49.799 --> 00:14:51.779 everything like that, I just think it's a bit... 298 00:14:51.899 --> 00:14:55.740 He does get a bit de-emphasized in favour of sort of Tegan and 299 00:14:55.740 --> 00:14:57.120 what's going on with Amber and Lon. 300 00:14:57.179 --> 00:14:59.340 I know in Crown Cross, it's overly critical of it. 301 00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:01.019 I think Peter does a really great job in this story. 302 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:01.799 Don't get me wrong. 303 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:04.139 Remember, Peter Davidson is my least favourite doctor. 304 00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:07.259 And so for me it's always hard to distance myself from that 305 00:15:07.259 --> 00:15:07.799 perception. 306 00:15:07.860 --> 00:15:10.259 I think he's really doing a great job here and he's given great 307 00:15:10.259 --> 00:15:10.679 material. 308 00:15:10.740 --> 00:15:12.720 I think it's the best material he actually has all season. 309 00:15:12.779 --> 00:15:17.580 Having Janet have such great material as well, you know, I don't 310 00:15:17.580 --> 00:15:19.500 like her in episode one very much. 311 00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:22.379 Like I don't like when she's wandering through the marketplace 312 00:15:22.379 --> 00:15:25.679 with the little earpiece in and being led by the hand and stuff 313 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:28.620 and she's sort of vulnerable and she's a bit pathetic and we do 314 00:15:28.620 --> 00:15:32.039 mark time a bit at the beginning of episode one with those scenes 315 00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:38.159 in the TARDIS and maybe we need to do that to kind of sell the 316 00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:39.480 possession by the Mara. 317 00:15:39.539 --> 00:15:41.879 Yeah, I think I think it sells a few. 318 00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:45.600 It sells, for instance, that Tegan is now back because we didn't 319 00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:47.340 have the TARDIS prop in Amsterdam. 320 00:15:47.399 --> 00:15:48.960 We don't see her getting into the target. 321 00:15:49.019 --> 00:15:51.659 So it kind of sells, yep, she's back on the show. 322 00:15:51.720 --> 00:15:54.059 I think the other thing it sells is she's not safe anywhere. 323 00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:55.019 Yeah. 324 00:15:55.019 --> 00:15:57.779 Because, you know, the TARDIS is supposed to be this safe 325 00:15:57.779 --> 00:16:01.019 environment, which they'd already started to break down that 326 00:16:01.019 --> 00:16:02.759 impression with Earthshock, of course. 327 00:16:02.820 --> 00:16:05.759 But she's not even safe in the Tardis. 328 00:16:05.820 --> 00:16:09.899 And Christopher Bailey, the writer when he talks about this 329 00:16:09.899 --> 00:16:10.320 story. 330 00:16:10.379 --> 00:16:16.139 He talks about what he saw as some of the frustrations with how 331 00:16:16.139 --> 00:16:17.879 Kinder had been mounted. 332 00:16:17.940 --> 00:16:24.000 So for instance, he didn't realise in setting it outdoors, that he 333 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:27.539 wouldn't be totally happy with the outdoor set. 334 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:30.779 So he sets it in a market and he sets it indoors. 335 00:16:30.779 --> 00:16:33.360 And he's like, oh, okay, I didn't really like the 20 foot high 336 00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:35.100 snakes. so he makes them are smaller. 337 00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:38.580 A lot of the production elements of this story and the way they're 338 00:16:38.580 --> 00:16:43.019 presented is Christopher Bailey's response to the interpretation 339 00:16:43.019 --> 00:16:45.600 of his own work and he doesn't kind of say, oh, they did it wrong 340 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:48.899 but he kind of goes, you know, I didn't realise what the program 341 00:16:48.899 --> 00:16:50.340 could do well, what it couldn't do. 342 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:51.360 Well, I looked at what it could do. 343 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:54.059 Well, it can do interior sets really well and it can do 344 00:16:54.059 --> 00:16:55.200 marketplaces and what have you. 345 00:16:55.259 --> 00:16:59.039 I actually think the sort of dragon dance snake that is a big 346 00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:02.220 plastic pink snake that's going through the marketplace. 347 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:05.519 I think that's Christopher Bailey making fun of the snake at the 348 00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:06.240 island of Kinder. 349 00:17:06.299 --> 00:17:08.220 If this story were made now. 350 00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:13.200 The cult of the Mara and people treating the Mara like a toy and 351 00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:14.099 selling toys of it. 352 00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:17.460 That would be a satire of the action figure market. 353 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:19.619 And I suppose at the time you didn't have doctor action figures. 354 00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:22.799 Yeah, Star Wars action figures, which had massively taken off in 355 00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:23.700 those previous few years. 356 00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:25.440 So that might be a comment on that. 357 00:17:25.500 --> 00:17:29.099 I guess the whole thing is like the reason that the Mara appears 358 00:17:29.099 --> 00:17:34.079 in sort of hilarious domestic violence themed Punch and Judy shows 359 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:37.920 and the reason that you can buy like toy snakes and and there's 360 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:43.319 the dragon dance is that this is a situation where the Mara is a 361 00:17:43.319 --> 00:17:46.559 legend, it's not real, and no one believes in it anymore. 362 00:17:46.619 --> 00:17:51.119 And so you've got Ambrill, who is interested in the legend of the 363 00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:54.900 Mara, has a great deal of knowledge about it and, you know, wants 364 00:17:54.900 --> 00:17:59.099 more. his greed for that knowledge that actually leads to the Mars 365 00:17:59.099 --> 00:17:59.819 becoming at the end. 366 00:17:59.880 --> 00:18:01.619 So the Mara is not real. 367 00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:05.400 We know it's real because we saw Kinder last year, but for these 368 00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:07.140 people, it's not real. 369 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:11.220 So it just goes to show how unprepared they are, you know, to face 370 00:18:11.220 --> 00:18:11.640 the threat. 371 00:18:11.700 --> 00:18:12.839 Yeah, it's really great. 372 00:18:12.900 --> 00:18:16.079 I like the fact that the snake is in the Punch and Judy show, but 373 00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:18.660 I don't like people watching the Punch and Judy. 374 00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:19.680 Like, I hate Punch and Judy. 375 00:18:19.740 --> 00:18:21.059 Like, I hate... 376 00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:22.619 And watching explicable. 377 00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:25.019 Watching people watch it is boring. 378 00:18:25.140 --> 00:18:28.319 And this time, like last week we had little kids watching some 379 00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:30.720 show and they had hideous jumpers this week, the kids are just 380 00:18:30.720 --> 00:18:31.200 hideous. 381 00:18:31.259 --> 00:18:34.920 You know, and I just sit there going, oh, please shoot me now. 382 00:18:34.980 --> 00:18:38.940 Like, I mean, talk about some of the production elements here is 383 00:18:38.940 --> 00:18:42.180 you've got Fiona doing a fairly good job with the marketplace 384 00:18:42.180 --> 00:18:43.019 trying to sell that. 385 00:18:43.079 --> 00:18:45.480 I'm not completely convinced all the time. 386 00:18:45.539 --> 00:18:48.779 It's like we've got like one big corridor and an offshoot and 387 00:18:48.779 --> 00:18:49.319 that's about it. 388 00:18:49.380 --> 00:18:53.220 I don't think there's enough people at the end, you know, as the 389 00:18:53.220 --> 00:18:54.000 procession goes through. 390 00:18:54.059 --> 00:18:56.640 But I mean, that's in Doctor Who's admitted budget. 391 00:18:56.700 --> 00:18:59.220 I love the outdoor sets that are set on film. 392 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:01.440 I think they look fantastic. 393 00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:03.240 You know, that is wonderful. 394 00:19:03.299 --> 00:19:06.960 You've then got all the interior sets, which I believe were 395 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:12.779 borrowed off the song for Europe set and it's been redressed. 396 00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:15.539 But at the same time, I don't know. 397 00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:19.799 I find them quite sterile, like that corridor that they go down 398 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:23.700 which like last week we had some sort of sterile corridors, blocky 399 00:19:23.700 --> 00:19:26.400 sort of white corridors in Arc of Infinity. 400 00:19:26.460 --> 00:19:29.880 So for those sequences in those episodes, I get a bit sort of like 401 00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:31.859 okay, it's the same thing. 402 00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:36.119 And then we have that cliffhanger, with long threatening to kill 403 00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:39.359 the doctor with the people wearing, with the people wearing the 404 00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:41.279 stuff out of 4 to Doomsday. 405 00:19:41.339 --> 00:19:45.059 And Nissa gives a blood curdling scream, but then... 406 00:19:45.059 --> 00:19:48.000 It's another one of those cliffhangers we talked about them last 407 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:48.299 season. 408 00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:52.140 The cliffhanger which ends on someone saying, kill him, and then 409 00:19:52.140 --> 00:19:55.559 the next episode resumes with someone walking in and saying, stop. 410 00:19:55.619 --> 00:19:58.259 And that's what Lady Tanha does here. 411 00:19:58.319 --> 00:19:59.220 You know what? 412 00:19:59.279 --> 00:20:01.980 I usually hate it, but the fact that it's her and the way she does 413 00:20:01.980 --> 00:20:03.119 it, I actually quite like it. 414 00:20:03.180 --> 00:20:04.140 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 415 00:20:04.140 --> 00:20:07.380 And, you know, Sarah Sutton gives a great scream, but she says in 416 00:20:07.380 --> 00:20:10.920 the making of, when I look at that, what exactly am I screaming 417 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:11.160 at? 418 00:20:11.220 --> 00:20:13.980 The swords know where near me and I'm grabbing onto Pete's arm 419 00:20:13.980 --> 00:20:15.779 have I realised I'm allergic to his jacket? 420 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:16.559 don't know. 421 00:20:16.619 --> 00:20:17.880 It's blood curdling. 422 00:20:17.940 --> 00:20:20.700 She gives the same blood curdling screaming terminus as well. 423 00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:24.480 And um, and last week in um, in Ark of Infinity. 424 00:20:24.539 --> 00:20:27.240 A good Doctor Who scream, if you like, because one of the 425 00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:30.960 stereotypes, so not entirely undeserved, of the female styles of 426 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:33.240 Doctor Who is that they just scream at things. 427 00:20:33.299 --> 00:20:37.380 And when they're at their worst... when they're written at their 428 00:20:37.380 --> 00:20:38.819 worst, yes, they do. 429 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:44.759 But when they're written at their best, The screams are occasional 430 00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:49.380 they're truly terrifying and emotional, and they're effective 431 00:20:49.380 --> 00:20:49.980 because of that. 432 00:20:50.039 --> 00:20:53.819 So yeah, NISA screens in what foot of doomsday, and she does 433 00:20:53.819 --> 00:20:56.400 scream in these 3 stories here. 434 00:20:56.460 --> 00:21:00.359 But each time it's like, no, that's that's an understandable 435 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:03.480 reaction, not so much in snake dance, unfortunately. 436 00:21:03.539 --> 00:21:06.839 A word about the sets, and this came from Richard, and we would be 437 00:21:06.839 --> 00:21:08.579 in great trouble if we didn't include it. 438 00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:11.039 The Mara Cave. 439 00:21:11.099 --> 00:21:12.599 It's German expressionism. 440 00:21:12.660 --> 00:21:13.680 Of course it is. 441 00:21:13.740 --> 00:21:19.980 Can I talk about the fact that Tegan leads Lon to the Mara Cave? 442 00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:24.299 And then she gets to disappear for about 15 to 20 minutes of the 443 00:21:24.299 --> 00:21:26.039 story just, she's just waiting. 444 00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:27.599 Hanging out in the cave. 445 00:21:27.660 --> 00:21:28.019 Yeah, yeah. 446 00:21:28.019 --> 00:21:28.859 She's just waiting. 447 00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:29.759 She just disappears. 448 00:21:29.819 --> 00:21:31.920 And that's one of my problems I have with Kinder, is the fact that 449 00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:33.900 she's just asleep for a whole episode. 450 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:35.160 He just leaves her hanging. 451 00:21:35.220 --> 00:21:36.119 She does get that. 452 00:21:36.299 --> 00:21:39.359 Is it the cliffhanger where they go, look at me, look at me. 453 00:21:39.420 --> 00:21:39.960 That's right. 454 00:21:40.019 --> 00:21:40.980 You will look at me. 455 00:21:41.039 --> 00:21:44.039 I remember that as a kid because my sister and I used to grab each 456 00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:46.559 other at the head. and go, look at me. 457 00:21:46.619 --> 00:21:47.160 That's right. 458 00:21:47.220 --> 00:21:49.140 Look at me, look at Mandarin. 459 00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:51.420 I don't know why we came up with that, but that's the one 460 00:21:51.420 --> 00:21:53.759 overriding memory I have of this. 461 00:21:53.819 --> 00:21:57.480 There's very little peril because, of course, the Mara isn't in it 462 00:21:57.480 --> 00:21:58.380 until the very end. 463 00:21:58.440 --> 00:22:00.000 It's all about the Mara becoming. 464 00:22:00.059 --> 00:22:03.720 So there is actually very little threat leading up to that. 465 00:22:03.779 --> 00:22:08.279 But those 2 cliffhangers, Cliffhanger to episode one and to 466 00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:11.460 episode 2 are both about Tegan being really scary. 467 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:13.440 And she really manages that well. 468 00:22:13.500 --> 00:22:16.500 And those scenes with the snake skulls. 469 00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:20.519 So 1st in the in the fortune tellers crystal ball, and then 470 00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:22.920 replacing her head in the Funhouse mirror. 471 00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:25.680 I think they're really frightening and really effective. 472 00:22:25.740 --> 00:22:30.660 Yeah, and for once, the CSO in Tegan's dream sequence very early 473 00:22:30.660 --> 00:22:34.200 on and her just sort of being not actually walking but being moved 474 00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:38.220 up the staircase into the mouth of the cave, it's really well 475 00:22:38.220 --> 00:22:38.819 done. 476 00:22:38.819 --> 00:22:42.420 You kind of expect Doctor Who to have dodgy CSO. 477 00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:46.920 But they start to use it a bit more sparingly in the 1980s and 478 00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:48.900 it's kind of like, no, let's actually get the shots right. 479 00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:51.420 Let's not have another underworld or the mutants or something like 480 00:22:51.420 --> 00:22:51.599 that. 481 00:22:51.660 --> 00:22:54.779 Let's actually make this look as good as possible. 482 00:22:54.839 --> 00:22:55.740 And that dream is terrifying. 483 00:22:55.799 --> 00:22:59.759 Is that the dream where she's lying in benches, I'm in my garden 484 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:00.059 silly. 485 00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:02.099 Oh, well, that's later on. 486 00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:06.180 But even, even that's, you know, that's lovely. that's Janet. 487 00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:09.779 And it's a little bit silly, but it's a little bit menacing as 488 00:23:09.779 --> 00:23:10.140 well. 489 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:13.380 Well, she tells lies in her garden or something. 490 00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:17.220 Like, there is, there's something, there's some moral failing 491 00:23:17.220 --> 00:23:21.839 that's, that's causing the Mara to have some kind of tone. 492 00:23:21.900 --> 00:23:25.680 Or, you know, is the Mara now seeping back into her childhood and 493 00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:27.119 it's open to interpretation. 494 00:23:27.180 --> 00:23:29.940 I'm not I'm not going to try and make an answer here. 495 00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:31.559 I agree with you in that. 496 00:23:31.619 --> 00:23:34.619 I like Janet's performance in this immensely. 497 00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:36.240 Like, I think she is really great. 498 00:23:36.299 --> 00:23:39.539 The Kinder performance, I think, is much broader and I still think 499 00:23:39.539 --> 00:23:41.400 she's in her playhouse acting stage. 500 00:23:41.460 --> 00:23:45.059 I know you guys disagree with me, possibly with that, but I prefer 501 00:23:45.059 --> 00:23:48.299 this performance and that's probably why I don't like, it's 502 00:23:48.299 --> 00:23:49.259 another thing about Hindu. 503 00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:51.240 I don't like as much in retrospect. 504 00:23:51.299 --> 00:23:55.019 Last week we had one monster, which was called the Ergon, and it 505 00:23:55.019 --> 00:23:55.680 killed no one. 506 00:23:55.740 --> 00:23:58.319 This week we have Damara and it kills. 507 00:23:58.319 --> 00:23:59.339 No one. 508 00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:00.900 Actually, no one dies in this story. 509 00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:01.500 That's right. 510 00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:02.519 That's not a bad thing. 511 00:24:03.420 --> 00:24:08.819 I just begin to get a bit sick that, you know, next week, actually 512 00:24:08.819 --> 00:24:11.279 nobody dies except for the people who want to die, and the week 513 00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:14.640 after that, the big, huge creature that's in there kills no one. 514 00:24:14.700 --> 00:24:17.819 Like, it just becomes this pattern of the creature or whatever 515 00:24:17.819 --> 00:24:18.779 kills no one. 516 00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:23.279 And it's something that, possibly, thematically I have a problem 517 00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:26.519 with, watching things in order, it really began to do my head. 518 00:24:26.579 --> 00:24:29.279 You're not having actual proper monsters, they're a little bit 519 00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:30.960 more conceptual or something. 520 00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:35.099 For me, I need to feel a threat, a real threat that people have 521 00:24:35.099 --> 00:24:35.460 died. 522 00:24:35.519 --> 00:24:39.240 For me, that's my interpretation adopted who, whereas this is 523 00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:41.579 obviously on a different level and I don't connect with it as 524 00:24:41.579 --> 00:24:41.759 much. 525 00:24:41.819 --> 00:24:42.240 Right. 526 00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:46.920 Yeah, I will say this season runs into a bit of a problem and it's 527 00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:51.180 a bit of a problem of over-promise and I'm to deliver because the 528 00:24:51.180 --> 00:24:55.740 1st few scripts were sort of conceptualised and it was like, oh 529 00:24:55.740 --> 00:24:58.140 you know, we'll bring back, we'll bring back over a story and 530 00:24:58.140 --> 00:25:01.680 we'll, we should do another Mara story that was quite popular last 531 00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:01.920 season. 532 00:25:01.980 --> 00:25:03.660 Oh, and we're bringing back the Black Guardian. 533 00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:05.400 And someone went, oh, hold on. 534 00:25:05.460 --> 00:25:08.400 So far, we've got an element from the past in every story. 535 00:25:08.460 --> 00:25:10.559 Let's advertise the season as that. 536 00:25:10.619 --> 00:25:13.259 And of course, they were going to end on a dalek story, which 537 00:25:13.259 --> 00:25:14.039 doesn't end up happening. 538 00:25:14.099 --> 00:25:18.420 But the problem is, you know, it's kind of like we've got elements 539 00:25:18.420 --> 00:25:18.960 from the past. 540 00:25:19.019 --> 00:25:23.759 We've got Omega, and we've got the Mara from 6 months ago, and 541 00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:27.900 we've got the Black Guardian 3 times over. 542 00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:29.759 Oh, and the White Guardian, you know. 543 00:25:29.819 --> 00:25:33.180 And the master from 3 months ago. 544 00:25:33.180 --> 00:25:35.400 And Daleks? 545 00:25:35.460 --> 00:25:39.599 It's like, uh, um, yeah, and it led to that fan room of it 546 00:25:39.599 --> 00:25:41.759 terminus was going to have the ice warriors in it, which 547 00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:45.180 apparently was never even considered, but people were clutching at 548 00:25:45.180 --> 00:25:47.160 bringing this old stuff back. 549 00:25:47.220 --> 00:25:49.740 But it doesn't look like they've actually considered what do 550 00:25:49.740 --> 00:25:50.759 people want to come back? 551 00:25:51.059 --> 00:25:54.599 When you look at the 50th anniversary seasons. 552 00:25:54.660 --> 00:25:56.339 Series 7. 553 00:25:56.400 --> 00:25:58.500 You've got a Dalek story. 554 00:25:58.559 --> 00:26:01.019 You've got a weeping angel story, you've got nice warrior story 555 00:26:01.019 --> 00:26:03.599 and you've got a Cyberman story. 556 00:26:03.660 --> 00:26:06.059 I have no memory of series 7. 557 00:26:06.539 --> 00:26:10.559 Series 7's greatest crime is that it's a bit forgettable. 558 00:26:10.619 --> 00:26:11.819 That's the thing. 559 00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:13.079 Oh, and of course it has. 560 00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:15.900 Solarian and unit, you know. 561 00:26:15.960 --> 00:26:22.440 So, that had sort of organic stories grown around these returning 562 00:26:22.440 --> 00:26:22.920 elements. 563 00:26:22.980 --> 00:26:26.579 Whereas I think the returning elements this season and Snake Dance 564 00:26:26.579 --> 00:26:28.980 is probably the exception in that Snake Dance is a bloody good 565 00:26:28.980 --> 00:26:31.559 story in its own right with a returning monster. 566 00:26:31.619 --> 00:26:33.720 Yeah, you could have done snake dance. 567 00:26:33.779 --> 00:26:37.140 And in fact, it kind of it kind of wants there to be a sequel in a 568 00:26:37.140 --> 00:26:40.200 way, just given the way that Tegan has left at the end of Kinder. 569 00:26:40.259 --> 00:26:42.359 So it kind of happens naturally. 570 00:26:42.420 --> 00:26:46.259 And if it hadn't been the 20th anniversary, we probably would 571 00:26:46.259 --> 00:26:48.359 still have seen a sequel to Kinder. 572 00:26:48.420 --> 00:26:51.599 Yeah, whereas I think some other stories in the season, not all of 573 00:26:51.599 --> 00:26:51.839 them. 574 00:26:51.900 --> 00:26:57.420 Some of the stories in the season, once they've decided on that, A 575 00:26:57.420 --> 00:27:02.099 monster from the past in every story, hook, they just kind of go 576 00:27:02.099 --> 00:27:03.779 we've got Omega in a story. 577 00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:04.680 Okay, what's the story? 578 00:27:04.740 --> 00:27:07.079 We've got Omega in a story. 579 00:27:07.140 --> 00:27:11.220 You know, it's like there's, I would say, at least 3 stories this 580 00:27:11.220 --> 00:27:11.640 season. 581 00:27:11.700 --> 00:27:14.099 Snake Dance is not one of them, but Arc of Infinity is, where 582 00:27:14.099 --> 00:27:17.039 they've gone, oh, we've got this returning monster and we've got 583 00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:19.799 this returning monster, you know, and they think that's going to 584 00:27:19.799 --> 00:27:20.099 be enough. 585 00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:21.720 It's just not enough. 586 00:27:21.779 --> 00:27:22.259 Yeah. 587 00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:26.279 And in fact, what they do with the Mara in this is, I think, really 588 00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:31.259 incredibly clever, because when we 1st meet the Mara, they're some 589 00:27:31.259 --> 00:27:33.960 strange force from the dark places of the inside. 590 00:27:34.019 --> 00:27:37.440 They're kind of supernatural or demons or something like that. 591 00:27:37.500 --> 00:27:41.880 They come into our reality through the, you know, dreaming of an 592 00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:45.359 unshared mind and they're completely spoken of in sort of magical 593 00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:46.740 or mythological terms. 594 00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:50.220 And in this story, we actually get the origin of the Mara. 595 00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:52.200 We actually find out how they were created. 596 00:27:52.259 --> 00:27:55.259 And it is like a science fiction-y thing. 597 00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:58.200 There's a lost technology that created these crystals that 598 00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:02.279 rayified people's thoughts, turned thoughts into reality. 599 00:28:02.339 --> 00:28:04.380 But the people were evil. 600 00:28:04.500 --> 00:28:08.519 Or there was evil inside those people, the same way that there's 601 00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:13.680 evil inside little baby Tegan in her garden telling lies, and that 602 00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:16.019 that evil creates the Mara. 603 00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:19.440 And so the Mara is the result of human evil. 604 00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:21.779 It's something that people have created. 605 00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:26.640 And so it is science fiction in this talk of sort of 0 gravity and 606 00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:29.220 all of that sort of stuff and flawless crystals and things. 607 00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:32.759 But it doesn't rob it of its mythology. 608 00:28:32.819 --> 00:28:37.140 You know, like it's not a big ophidian monster that evolved on the 609 00:28:37.140 --> 00:28:38.220 planet Maros. 610 00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:39.119 Do you know what I mean? 611 00:28:39.180 --> 00:28:40.859 Yeah, or something stupid. 612 00:28:40.920 --> 00:28:45.900 It's still, it's still sort of symbolic of what it had been 613 00:28:45.900 --> 00:28:47.220 symbolic of in Kinder. 614 00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:48.119 I think it's really good. 615 00:28:48.180 --> 00:28:52.859 The best science fiction is not the science fiction that's based 616 00:28:52.859 --> 00:28:55.500 around the fact that we're on rocket ships and flying around sons 617 00:28:55.500 --> 00:28:56.160 and what have you. 618 00:28:56.220 --> 00:28:58.559 The best science fiction could still be told in any setting 619 00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:01.740 because it's about the species you're looking at. 620 00:29:01.799 --> 00:29:03.839 So, you know, usually in our case it's humanity. 621 00:29:03.900 --> 00:29:07.859 Now, obviously you've got writers like Larry Niven, who will write 622 00:29:07.859 --> 00:29:10.559 stories where there are no human characters, but we can still 623 00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:15.720 recognise humanity, if you like, in the characters, or the whole 624 00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:18.779 story becomes about the fact that these characters are totally 625 00:29:18.779 --> 00:29:21.480 alien and we cannot recognise anything within them. 626 00:29:21.599 --> 00:29:24.779 Yeah, when you get science fiction, there is just about the 0 627 00:29:24.779 --> 00:29:29.400 gravity welding, blah, blah, mega flammity converters. 628 00:29:29.460 --> 00:29:31.259 Like Arc of Infinity, friends. 629 00:29:31.319 --> 00:29:34.859 Yeah, you know, the it's a pulse loop. an impulse laser. 630 00:29:34.980 --> 00:29:39.059 We've got a molecular 0 G bonding feel. 631 00:29:39.779 --> 00:29:42.720 Something's happening with the transduction barrier. 632 00:29:42.779 --> 00:29:43.859 Yeah, you know. 633 00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:47.759 It's, it, it, that probably appeals to a certain audience in the 634 00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:50.640 same way that Michael Bay and Roland Emmerick films appeal to 635 00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:55.140 certain audiences and if you enjoy those, I'm not, I'm not saying 636 00:29:55.140 --> 00:29:56.759 you're wrong, you know. 637 00:29:56.759 --> 00:29:58.319 No, but you are a bad person. 638 00:29:58.500 --> 00:30:02.220 Well, look, I can enjoy a Roland Emmerick film at times. 639 00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:07.200 But the point is, if you, if you want sort of meatiness and depth 640 00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:13.140 to a story, it has to be a story where if you, if you rip out the 641 00:30:13.140 --> 00:30:15.720 decoration, if you like, if you set it in a different place, it 642 00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:16.440 still works. 643 00:30:16.500 --> 00:30:21.059 And that, I mean, that is why, and we criticised it at the time 644 00:30:21.059 --> 00:30:24.359 and I still kind of roll my eyes at the fact they did it, so many 645 00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:27.180 Hinchcliffe stories were ripped off from classic literature 646 00:30:27.180 --> 00:30:31.259 because remove the context of those stories, and the basic idea of 647 00:30:31.259 --> 00:30:35.099 Frankenstein, and the basic idea of the thing from another world 648 00:30:35.099 --> 00:30:40.319 and the Loch Ness monster and that sort of thing, those ideas work 649 00:30:40.319 --> 00:30:41.099 in any setting. 650 00:30:41.160 --> 00:30:42.119 Yeah. 651 00:30:42.119 --> 00:30:44.759 Because, you know, Frankenstein's about the humanity of the 652 00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:48.660 monster, forbidden planet, much like, much, like snake dance is 653 00:30:48.660 --> 00:30:51.180 about monsters from the id, that kind of thing. 654 00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:56.519 But yet, you need to have that humanity in the story, really. 655 00:30:56.579 --> 00:31:00.180 This is a story that has no villain as well, isn't it? 656 00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:03.420 But the Mara gets brought about or nearly gets brought about 657 00:31:03.420 --> 00:31:06.839 because each person there has a floor. 658 00:31:06.900 --> 00:31:07.619 Yes. 659 00:31:07.619 --> 00:31:11.700 So you have Tegan's floor, Amber is greedy for knowledge and 660 00:31:11.700 --> 00:31:14.099 greedy for, you know, those artefacts. 661 00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:18.359 Lon is arrogant and doesn't really care about anyone. 662 00:31:18.539 --> 00:31:21.119 You know, like all of those things. 663 00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:22.680 Those are all sort of minor faults. 664 00:31:22.740 --> 00:31:26.279 I think Lady Tanha's name means thirst, actually. 665 00:31:26.339 --> 00:31:30.660 All of those are just tiny little petty flaws in people's 666 00:31:30.660 --> 00:31:31.140 character. 667 00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:33.900 And just like the way the Mara was originally created. 668 00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:38.400 It's going to be recreated, just because the surrounding people 669 00:31:38.400 --> 00:31:40.859 all have these sort of moral flaws. 670 00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:42.180 That's very true. 671 00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:46.440 And I can see why that's appealing now as an adult. 672 00:31:46.500 --> 00:31:50.220 I still, I struggle with the fact that there isn't really, for me 673 00:31:50.220 --> 00:31:54.539 a central sort of villain and if it is Tegan possessed by the Mara 674 00:31:54.539 --> 00:31:56.640 she was never going to kill anyone because how could the character 675 00:31:56.640 --> 00:31:57.779 live with herself if she did? 676 00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:03.299 I mean, that, I can see that it's been, I mean, that's obvious. 677 00:32:04.140 --> 00:32:07.859 But it's also a weakness is the fact that nobody dies, in my 678 00:32:07.859 --> 00:32:07.980 opinion. 679 00:32:08.039 --> 00:32:10.740 So there is this sort of strange thing, isn't it? 680 00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:13.920 And I feel the same way in some sense that what I kind of want 681 00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:17.759 Doctor Who to be about is, you know, like monsters invading the 682 00:32:17.759 --> 00:32:21.660 earth or or, you know, people getting murdered in a confined space 683 00:32:21.660 --> 00:32:22.740 or something like that. 684 00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:26.759 Like all of that stuff, I think, is is really central to what. 685 00:32:26.880 --> 00:32:27.720 Doctor Who is. 686 00:32:27.779 --> 00:32:34.619 And so perhaps we have a run of stories a little bit too long, but 687 00:32:34.619 --> 00:32:36.240 doesn't have any of that sort of stuff. 688 00:32:36.299 --> 00:32:39.900 I guess the last thing that we had was what, the visitation where 689 00:32:39.900 --> 00:32:43.740 it was just sort of straightforward evil aliens posing a threat. 690 00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:45.119 Oh, earth shock. 691 00:32:46.019 --> 00:32:47.339 Maybe I might... 692 00:32:47.400 --> 00:32:48.240 I kind of forgotten that. 693 00:32:48.299 --> 00:32:51.119 I might feel differently if I watched this in isolation. 694 00:32:51.180 --> 00:32:54.720 Someone said to me recently, it might have been a friend of the 695 00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:57.900 podcast, Brian Lindsey said, but if you watch all these early 696 00:32:57.900 --> 00:33:02.099 Davidsons in order, what we're talking about becomes quite obvious 697 00:33:02.099 --> 00:33:06.960 and, well, for me, It's a problem. 698 00:33:07.019 --> 00:33:09.779 But if you just come in and watch the one story and you haven't 699 00:33:09.779 --> 00:33:12.299 watched the other ones around it, you might think more of the 700 00:33:12.299 --> 00:33:14.759 story and not, it might not be that much of a problem. 701 00:33:14.819 --> 00:33:21.420 See, I find I find the opposite thing in that I enjoy the Davidson 702 00:33:21.420 --> 00:33:23.220 era much more if I watch it all in context. 703 00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:27.839 I see the variations in Peter's performance because much like you 704 00:33:27.839 --> 00:33:30.720 Todd, he's probably my least favourite and I know I mentioned last 705 00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:34.859 season that I find new things in his performance each time I watch 706 00:33:34.859 --> 00:33:38.400 it and watching the era through once with Rod and then watching it 707 00:33:38.400 --> 00:33:39.900 through again for the podcast. 708 00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:41.579 I really started to see. 709 00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:43.740 Actually, there's a lot of subtlety in his performance. 710 00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:46.980 And that thing you were talking about earlier where he's so 711 00:33:46.980 --> 00:33:50.700 focussed on the problem he has set for himself that he doesn't 712 00:33:50.700 --> 00:33:55.440 notice details around him, which, in a way, those details aren't 713 00:33:55.440 --> 00:33:55.680 important. 714 00:33:56.279 --> 00:34:01.200 That element of the character is usually there to a greater or 715 00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:02.940 lesser degree. 716 00:34:03.000 --> 00:34:06.299 But I think that element of the character is very greatly 717 00:34:06.299 --> 00:34:07.980 dependent on whether Peter likes the script. 718 00:34:08.159 --> 00:34:12.599 I don't think I don't necessarily think it's the making up for 719 00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:15.900 this one, but in one of the makings of this season, Peter reckons 720 00:34:15.900 --> 00:34:20.099 that he plays the doctor too nicely during this season in 721 00:34:20.099 --> 00:34:20.460 particular. 722 00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:24.539 You know, at times I think he is too nice over this period of time 723 00:34:24.539 --> 00:34:27.300 but that's not necessarily always the case. 724 00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:31.860 I think he's a bit harsh on himself and it's the script and it's 725 00:34:31.860 --> 00:34:33.780 what characterisation actually give to his doctor. 726 00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:36.360 I think when you get to the moment you get to warriors of deep 727 00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:37.260 onwards. 728 00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:38.340 He is so much better. 729 00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:40.079 I'm really looking forward to that. 730 00:34:40.139 --> 00:34:43.079 I'm already finding a lot to enjoy in what he's doing. 731 00:34:43.139 --> 00:34:46.139 You know, I've been critical of the whole conception of Pete's 732 00:34:46.139 --> 00:34:46.440 doctor. 733 00:34:46.500 --> 00:34:49.019 He's not my least favourite doctor at all. 734 00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:51.119 That one's still to come. 735 00:34:51.179 --> 00:34:55.739 But the breathless thing that he does, the running, I really like 736 00:34:55.739 --> 00:34:57.539 him panicky. 737 00:34:57.599 --> 00:34:59.820 I really like when he's exasperated. 738 00:34:59.940 --> 00:35:04.619 I think his relationship with Tegan is terrifically fun. is 739 00:35:04.619 --> 00:35:06.360 sometimes he can be really charming. 740 00:35:06.420 --> 00:35:09.780 He's not seen stealing. you know what I mean? 741 00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:14.519 He's not as compelling as his predecessor or even kind of his 742 00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:15.719 successor. 743 00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:20.460 But I think it's an acting performance that I really like. 744 00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:25.559 And I think it's kind of underappreciated, just given given the 745 00:35:25.559 --> 00:35:29.820 context of the other 2 doctors, the 2 doctors on either side, and 746 00:35:29.820 --> 00:35:34.260 also just given the general low quality of what he's given to do 747 00:35:34.260 --> 00:35:35.639 as a script, I think. 748 00:35:35.699 --> 00:35:38.940 I agree with you on the low quality with the scripts and what he 749 00:35:38.940 --> 00:35:40.139 he is elevating that. 750 00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:42.179 I don't think he's underappreciated. 751 00:35:42.239 --> 00:35:44.639 My opinion, no, it's very different to yours. 752 00:35:44.699 --> 00:35:48.360 I think he's giving, I'm getting more out of his performance, but 753 00:35:48.360 --> 00:35:52.619 I still think that it takes up to the 5 doctors before he really 754 00:35:52.619 --> 00:35:53.699 works it out. 755 00:35:53.880 --> 00:35:56.219 I'm not quite up to that yet, and I am looking forward to it. 756 00:35:56.280 --> 00:35:59.760 I have a vague memory that you're right, that he really sort of 757 00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:02.699 kicks into gear in season 21 and I'm just looking forward to 758 00:36:02.699 --> 00:36:04.440 actually seeing that happen. 759 00:36:04.500 --> 00:36:05.940 There's an energy. 760 00:36:05.940 --> 00:36:08.039 With somebody leaving. 761 00:36:08.099 --> 00:36:09.119 There's an energy. 762 00:36:09.179 --> 00:36:12.059 There's this frenetic energy that he has. 763 00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:14.880 And all those little traits that you've talked about are suddenly 764 00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:19.440 not under the surface or downplay, they're over the surface. 765 00:36:19.500 --> 00:36:24.000 He's using his acting performance to work out what the character's 766 00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:27.420 going to be because essentially he's come into it and no one has 767 00:36:27.420 --> 00:36:29.400 any idea of what he's going to be like. 768 00:36:29.460 --> 00:36:33.239 And you can see things that he tries in Fort a Doomsday that he 769 00:36:33.239 --> 00:36:34.199 never tries again. 770 00:36:34.260 --> 00:36:37.980 And then I guess all of that sort of running about being 771 00:36:37.980 --> 00:36:43.199 exasperated and stuff is what he ends up adopting and then he goes 772 00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:46.320 in and sort of properly plays that in season 21, do you think? 773 00:36:46.380 --> 00:36:48.960 It's like a clear idea of what the character is. 774 00:36:49.079 --> 00:36:51.539 And I also think the writing is there for him as well. 775 00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:54.659 Yes, yeah, the writing definitely improves next year. 776 00:36:54.719 --> 00:36:59.460 See, I think this is still broad strokes, except for Christopher 777 00:36:59.460 --> 00:36:59.880 Bailey. 778 00:36:59.940 --> 00:37:00.360 He's got it. 779 00:37:00.420 --> 00:37:01.440 Yeah, yeah, he's great. 780 00:37:01.500 --> 00:37:02.039 Yeah, yeah. 781 00:37:02.099 --> 00:37:03.780 Isn't isn't it funny? 782 00:37:03.840 --> 00:37:06.539 Sort of, actually, I won't say this is the best story of the 783 00:37:06.539 --> 00:37:10.199 season, but it's not far off in this story we're talking about, the 784 00:37:10.199 --> 00:37:12.179 quality of the writing because we know what's coming. 785 00:37:12.539 --> 00:37:16.320 The thing is, I just want to clarify when I say he's my least 786 00:37:16.320 --> 00:37:17.099 favourite doctor. 787 00:37:17.159 --> 00:37:20.340 That's a bit like me saying my least favourite Avengers sidekick. 788 00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:21.539 They're all brilliant. 789 00:37:21.539 --> 00:37:24.719 And, you know, incidentally, I'm sorry, it's Mike Gambit. 790 00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:27.599 Yeah, he's shockingly bad. 791 00:37:27.659 --> 00:37:30.659 Whoever let him off Metabulous 3, for God's sake. 792 00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:31.619 But that's the thing. 793 00:37:31.679 --> 00:37:32.460 He's still great. 794 00:37:32.519 --> 00:37:36.719 But, you know, I'm one of these mad people who probably prefers 795 00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:40.619 Tara King and Kathy Gale to end the peel. 796 00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:47.579 Oh, I can hear Steve over in Western Australia disowning me at... 797 00:37:47.579 --> 00:37:48.179 That is crazy. 798 00:37:48.659 --> 00:37:54.840 My big thing, Brendan, is that I just wish the stories that he was 799 00:37:54.840 --> 00:37:58.380 given in the 1st 2 series were consistently better. 800 00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:01.739 Like I have episodes that I really like and then there's episodes 801 00:38:01.739 --> 00:38:04.619 that I don't like, or there's a through line through a story that 802 00:38:04.619 --> 00:38:07.559 I really like, and there's other things that I really dislike, and 803 00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.260 there's nothing thus far I can give more than 8 out of 10 to. 804 00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:10.800 That's just me. 805 00:38:10.860 --> 00:38:11.460 Yeah, yeah. 806 00:38:11.460 --> 00:38:15.900 And this gets an 8 and it's sort of like I want I want to be able 807 00:38:15.900 --> 00:38:19.440 to say in these 2 series, any of these stories could be in my top 808 00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:20.460 20 Doctor Who's. 809 00:38:20.519 --> 00:38:23.099 And quite honestly, as I sit here now, I can't say that. 810 00:38:23.159 --> 00:38:23.940 Yeah. 811 00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:27.420 There's there's probably one in these 2 seasons that I could put 812 00:38:27.420 --> 00:38:28.380 inside my top 20. 813 00:38:28.679 --> 00:38:32.400 And I think part of the problem is, you're not going to tell us 814 00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:32.699 what it is? 815 00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:33.360 Not yet. 816 00:38:33.480 --> 00:38:39.119 A lot of the creative decisions, there seems to be an air of it'll 817 00:38:39.119 --> 00:38:40.019 be all right on the night. 818 00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:41.579 And you know what? 819 00:38:41.639 --> 00:38:45.000 You might be able to manage that with one story per season, but 820 00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:47.519 when you've got that attitude for 6 or 7 stories. 821 00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:52.139 I think the success has become more a matter of luck than a matter 822 00:38:52.139 --> 00:38:52.679 of skill. 823 00:38:52.739 --> 00:38:57.119 And the only time I can really think of, oh, it'll be all right on 824 00:38:57.119 --> 00:39:00.780 the night has actually worked out in Doctor Who is City of Death. 825 00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:05.940 And that everyone on that just kind of goes, yeah, lightning just 826 00:39:05.940 --> 00:39:06.480 struck. 827 00:39:06.539 --> 00:39:09.360 You know, we just got we got the perfect cast and the perfect 828 00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:11.159 script and the perfect location. 829 00:39:11.219 --> 00:39:15.119 You know, I think snake dance kind of exemplifies that in the same 830 00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:15.420 way. 831 00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:20.219 You do have a great cast and you've got a cracking script, which 832 00:39:20.219 --> 00:39:23.340 probably, as much as I love it, could do with a bit of 833 00:39:23.340 --> 00:39:23.880 tightening. 834 00:39:23.940 --> 00:39:28.199 Well, going back to what you're saying about episode 3 where we 835 00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:33.300 disagree, I think if they'd said you've got 3 episodes, the doctor 836 00:39:33.300 --> 00:39:35.099 wouldn't have been in itself for 3 episodes and everything would 837 00:39:35.099 --> 00:39:36.119 have been fast forwarded, right? 838 00:39:36.179 --> 00:39:39.599 And so that's where I come from with that bit of perspective. 839 00:39:39.659 --> 00:39:43.199 So, and I think, you know, having the director they had, the 840 00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:46.980 writer they had and the director, she just casts it and it just 841 00:39:46.980 --> 00:39:50.219 sells it and that's why I generally like this. 842 00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:53.280 Yeah, I think there is a sort of strange problem, as I hinted 843 00:39:53.280 --> 00:39:56.699 before, at the structure which is no maltster actually really 844 00:39:56.699 --> 00:40:00.059 appears until the last 5 minutes of the story. 845 00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:03.119 There's a lot of waiting, but the waiting is, I think, really 846 00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:05.639 entertaining and for the reasons you identified. 847 00:40:05.699 --> 00:40:07.440 Can we talk about the snake? 848 00:40:08.039 --> 00:40:09.599 Go ahead. 849 00:40:09.659 --> 00:40:13.800 I don't care that the snake at the end of Kinder is terrible and 850 00:40:13.800 --> 00:40:14.579 it is terrible. 851 00:40:14.639 --> 00:40:16.139 It's a big plastic snake. 852 00:40:16.199 --> 00:40:20.099 It can see over the mirrors, so I don't know why it's affected by 853 00:40:20.099 --> 00:40:21.900 being trapped in a circle of mirrors. 854 00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:22.679 It can't even see them. 855 00:40:22.739 --> 00:40:26.940 It's huge and kind of silly and unconvincing, but it doesn't 856 00:40:26.940 --> 00:40:27.659 matter. 857 00:40:27.719 --> 00:40:31.619 Um, just generally because that story is quite good. 858 00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:35.699 Here, the snake, I think, is really, really surprisingly 859 00:40:35.699 --> 00:40:36.300 effective. 860 00:40:36.360 --> 00:40:40.019 So it doesn't for a 2nd not look like a puppet. 861 00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:43.860 You know, it's obviously a puppet, but this time it's it's 862 00:40:43.860 --> 00:40:44.699 glistening. 863 00:40:44.699 --> 00:40:47.760 Yeah, there's an organic quality to it. 864 00:40:47.820 --> 00:40:50.159 So it feels like it's got a mouthful of venom. 865 00:40:50.219 --> 00:40:51.840 It's got an articulated tongue. 866 00:40:51.900 --> 00:40:57.960 It just looks eviler and more frightening than the other one. 867 00:40:58.019 --> 00:40:59.639 And so I think it's really good. 868 00:40:59.699 --> 00:41:04.679 It's yet another monster that pours snot out of its head when it's 869 00:41:04.679 --> 00:41:05.340 killed. 870 00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:07.380 We didn't talk about Omega last week. 871 00:41:07.380 --> 00:41:09.239 Snotty McSnot faced. 872 00:41:09.300 --> 00:41:10.800 Yeah, that's 3 stories running. 873 00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:14.639 Yeah, where snots come out of the alien. 874 00:41:14.699 --> 00:41:16.380 It's the BBC snort machine. 875 00:41:16.440 --> 00:41:21.059 And the fact that they dispatch the Mara and genuinely kill it and 876 00:41:21.059 --> 00:41:22.260 then they're out of there too. 877 00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:25.019 There's no stupid goodbyes or anything like that. 878 00:41:25.079 --> 00:41:27.599 It's just Pete says the Mara has been destroyed. 879 00:41:27.659 --> 00:41:31.860 We come full circle from the beginning of the story where we had 880 00:41:31.860 --> 00:41:33.360 thought it destroyed, but it wasn't. 881 00:41:33.420 --> 00:41:34.260 It's still alive. 882 00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:37.559 And Pete just very definitely says the Mara's been destroyed and 883 00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:38.039 then we're out. 884 00:41:38.099 --> 00:41:38.940 I think that's really good. 885 00:41:39.000 --> 00:41:43.860 The sound design of that scene with Pete phasing down the Mara 886 00:41:43.860 --> 00:41:45.719 with Tegan's face in the middle of it. 887 00:41:45.780 --> 00:41:49.860 That is terrifying. was terrified by that when I was 11 years 888 00:41:49.860 --> 00:41:50.099 old. 889 00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:51.539 And the silence. 890 00:41:51.599 --> 00:41:54.960 There's a really eerie silence once the Mar has been defeated as 891 00:41:54.960 --> 00:41:55.320 well. 892 00:41:55.380 --> 00:41:59.699 Yeah, you know, Peter Howell doesn't go... 893 00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:02.400 There was a scene recorded of them leaving. 894 00:42:02.460 --> 00:42:07.920 Which, um, Fiona Cumming dropped mainly for timing reasons, episode 895 00:42:07.920 --> 00:42:11.039 4 runs to uh, 24 and a half minutes. 896 00:42:11.099 --> 00:42:11.519 Right. 897 00:42:11.519 --> 00:42:16.019 But in that, in that scene, Yeah, it would have been a far worse 898 00:42:16.019 --> 00:42:16.619 ending. 899 00:42:16.679 --> 00:42:20.400 It's in the deleted scenes and pretty much it's a few hours 900 00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:20.820 later. 901 00:42:20.880 --> 00:42:23.820 The whole market gathers to see the doctor, Lissa and Tegan often 902 00:42:23.820 --> 00:42:28.079 thank them for dealing with the Mara and kind of Lon and Amber go 903 00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:28.920 oh, we were so stupid. 904 00:42:28.980 --> 00:42:29.820 Yes, you were. 905 00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:32.099 It's well performed. 906 00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:33.539 They've learned a valuable less. 907 00:42:33.599 --> 00:42:34.260 Yeah, exactly. 908 00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:34.739 Exactly. 909 00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:39.960 It's the cousin of the scene with Hindle and Sanders saying, thank 910 00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:40.500 you, sir. 911 00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:42.000 Thank you, sir, at the end. 912 00:42:42.059 --> 00:42:43.260 But it's not as good. 913 00:42:43.320 --> 00:42:46.920 There is one rather lovely bit at the end where they talk about 914 00:42:47.159 --> 00:42:49.679 could the Mara come back and the doctor says, well, you know, it 915 00:42:49.679 --> 00:42:51.960 comes from your negative impulses and the fact that you don't deal 916 00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:53.340 with them and you don't talk about them. 917 00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:56.280 So the choice is up to you, and that's the last line. 918 00:42:56.280 --> 00:42:57.599 And that is a lovely last line. 919 00:42:57.659 --> 00:43:02.340 But the rest of the scene building up to it is just kind of Scooby 920 00:43:00.780 --> 00:43:02.340 Doo. 921 00:43:02.400 --> 00:43:05.519 So kudos to Fiona coming for dropping that scene and just ending 922 00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:06.539 us on. 923 00:43:06.900 --> 00:43:07.380 It's weird. 924 00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:10.139 It a triumphant. a downbeat triumphant ending. 925 00:43:10.199 --> 00:43:14.099 It's really raw and emotional and Janet does a great job. 926 00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:17.880 You know, she's such a long way away from the person who came into 927 00:43:17.880 --> 00:43:21.719 the Tardus and told us her name was Tegan all those years ago. 928 00:43:22.380 --> 00:43:28.619 It really is a joy to see her. surprised and delighted by this 929 00:43:28.619 --> 00:43:28.860 story. 930 00:43:28.980 --> 00:43:30.659 And you know what? 931 00:43:30.780 --> 00:43:32.460 You know how I said I don't think this is the best story of the 932 00:43:32.460 --> 00:43:32.699 season? 933 00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:37.559 I still think it's probably the best story so far for Davidson, for 934 00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:38.400 the Davidson era. 935 00:43:38.460 --> 00:43:41.699 I'm expecting it to be the best story of the season, but I haven't 936 00:43:41.699 --> 00:43:45.300 watched Enlightenment yet on the way through for the podcast, so 937 00:43:45.300 --> 00:43:46.019 we'll see. 938 00:43:46.139 --> 00:43:47.639 Interesting. 939 00:43:47.760 --> 00:43:51.360 I really liked the visitation. 940 00:43:51.900 --> 00:43:54.840 After listening to your podcast. 941 00:43:54.900 --> 00:43:57.239 You did a number on Jekyll. 942 00:43:57.239 --> 00:44:03.900 But I went into the visitation with low expectations, like from 943 00:44:03.900 --> 00:44:04.980 the previous time I watched it. 944 00:44:05.039 --> 00:44:06.659 So I think it sort of went a bit too high. 945 00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:11.820 Like I gave out 8.5 , but I now pegged it back to 8 and as Nathan 946 00:44:11.820 --> 00:44:13.559 said, it's just tumourous. 947 00:44:13.619 --> 00:44:17.400 So I actually think I prefer to watch this than that. 948 00:44:17.460 --> 00:44:20.760 So this is my favourite Davidson thus far.. 949 00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:46.199 Well, as we take off from the Noosa, we'll be back with our 950 00:44:46.199 --> 00:44:48.420 podcast on Morden Undead. 951 00:44:48.539 --> 00:44:52.199 Until then, you can find us on Flightthrough Entirety.sexy, Flight 952 00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:55.500 Through Entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on 953 00:44:55.500 --> 00:44:56.039 Twitter. 954 00:44:56.099 --> 00:45:00.420 Over on Bondfinger, we have various Roger Moore commentaries up to 955 00:45:00.420 --> 00:45:03.420 and including Moon Ray car. 956 00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:06.719 That's on bondfinger.com, bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and 957 00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:08.699 bondfinger cast on Twitter. 958 00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:12.420 And over on YouTube, Doctor Who in 10 seconds is still up to 959 00:45:12.420 --> 00:45:15.539 season six, but season 7 is coming out. next week. 960 00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:20.159 So until next time, may none of your snakes die dribbling snort 961 00:45:20.159 --> 00:45:21.119 out of their eyeballs. 962 00:45:21.239 --> 00:45:22.679 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 963 00:45:22.739 --> 00:45:23.219 Good night. 964 00:45:23.280 --> 00:45:24.900 See you later, Mara. 965 00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:34.260 That was Flight Through Entirety with Todd Bealby, Nathan 966 00:45:34.260 --> 00:45:35.400 Bottomley, and Brendan Jones. 967 00:45:35.460 --> 00:45:37.559 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 968 00:45:37.619 --> 00:45:42.719 This episode, Tiny Little Petty Floors, was recorded on July 24th 969 00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:43.320 2016. 970 00:45:43.559 --> 00:45:47.340 The next episode will be released on August 21st, offering 971 00:45:47.340 --> 00:45:49.739 temptation in fear, despair and greed. 972 00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:51.539 Is this Doctor Who or Big Brother? 973 00:45:59.219 --> 00:46:01.380 We're good burp. 974 00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:05.099 Oh, dear. 975 00:46:06.599 --> 00:46:09.179 Sorry, I've been drinking soda water. 976 00:46:09.239 --> 00:46:10.559 I wasn't expecting that. 977 00:46:10.619 --> 00:46:12.000 That's the marrow. 978 00:46:12.059 --> 00:46:13.500 Shaming people.