Hello everyone, Brendan here.
I just wanted to give you all a quick update on Flight Through
Entirety before we start the episode proper.
We've got a situation in the next couple of months where it's
going to be difficult for us all to get together to record.
So we've taken the decision that after this week, our snake dance
episode.
We're going to be going fortnightly until the beginning of season
21, possibly a few episodes in there, but during season 21, we
will go back to weekly.
At this stage, we're hoping to keep Bondfinger on monthly.
And yeah, just a fortnightly. schedule for flight through
entirety.
It was either that or put all of season 20 out weekly and then
have a long break and um, well, we have done that before this time
we decided we wanted to keep our releases up as long as possible.
There may be a little bit of a gap in November depending on what
we can get recorded in the next month.
But thank you very much for understanding.
There will still be regular episodes of Flight Through Entirety.
Sorry this one's a bit late, but I do hope you enjoy it.
Thank you.
Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety
the only Doctor Who podcast hosted by the Five Phases of
Delusion.
I'm Brendan.
I'm Nathan.
And I'm Todd.
I'm not deluded.
The others will disagree with me. this particular recording, but I
swear to God I'm not.
But the listener may find themselves deluded by the time we get to
the end of the sequel to Kinder, snake dance.
Well, this is mine, and I've really got nothing.
I have no opinion on this story at all.
Excellent.
So can I talk?
Yeah, yes.
I'm gonna throw it to Todd.
So I wasn't here for the love fest that was Kinder, where I almost
wanted to bath in my breakfast.
My opinion of Kinder is a bit different to everybody else's.
And I quite like it now, especially the Mary Morris stuff.
But I don't connect with Hindle.
Hindle.
That leads me Stone Cold Dead.
I don't like all the stuff in Tegan's mind.
And so I know you guys put some really good point of view across
on all of that and I can understand where you're coming from.
But I give it to six, 6.5 .
As a child.
Kinder was my most hated Doctor Who story of all time.
When I watched it.
I literally gave it one out of 10.
So when I came to this story, Snake Dance, you can imagine my
overwhelming joy at having the Mara back for this.
And I gave this less than what I gave to Kingdom.
Really?
So that's where I'm coming from with this entire story and
podcast.
So if Kinder has gone up, obviously, 6 times over in my opinion.
When I came to this, I knew that I knew in my heart that, you know
it was something that I hoped that I would discover would be, you
know, at least better than what I thought.
And I have to say, I think of all the Peter Davidsons, this is my
biggest surprise of the whole lot.
I really enjoyed watching.
The majority of this story.
It's not without its faults, including virtually all of the
episode 3 where the doctor is locked in a cell and I just think is
just tedious to the extreme and stops the story dead.
But, The thing that I found really intriguing with this is that I
start off really interested in the 3 leads, like, so imagine a bar
graph where my interest in with them and their characterisation.
As the story goes on, my interest in them and their
characterisation.
As the story goes on, my interest in.
At the start of this story, I'm confronted with some stupid woman
in a marketplace, some over the top seller of hall of mirrors, this
brat, his stuck up mother, and some other idiot in government.
But that's my 10 year old self thinking.
So I start off with, no, limited interest.
But the absolute joy is, as I was watching this, like within
moments.
These other characters in the cast, either so 3 and four, I just
want to know all about them.
Yeah, yeah.
And you guys have had a love fest with Fiona coming from the
moment she started directing, and I think that she's quite weak
when it comes to doing big technical stuff.
But this story just opened my eyes, she is fantastic at casting
the right people to bring these characters to life, and it is the
absolute strength of his story, and I just adored it.
The great thing about this story, the other great thing is that
there's a world.
So, Manusa, which is partly for humanity, in fact, humankind.
Seems like a kind of place that has a history and a backstory and
things.
And the fun thing about it is a lot of that backstory is revealed
to us in conversation with Tanha and Long, her son.
And that backstory could have just been an exposition dump, but
the relationship between those 2 characters is so great.
It's so great.
So he's bored.
She's terrifically, insanely posh.
The 2 of them really kind of like each other.
He's naughty and unpleasant.
We're going to next story, have, you know, a posh person who is
obnoxious and and sows trouble, you know, and likes to irritate
people.
But Martin Cloons in this is just terrific as that character.
Um, it's, There's a, there's a scene, I think, later on where Tan
has not talking to him because he was really rude to Amber in the
caves and he's being naughty and stuff.
And then later on, she says something to him and he goes, am I
forgiven mother and she says, oh, aren't you always?
It's just, it's just terrific.
And we never see the federator.
We never see their father.
But he's got a well-defined character and they're really funny.
Exactly.
You see his character and he's not even there.
And then it's such a strength.
Those 2 work so well together.
And Martin Clunes.
The performance is just brilliant.
I mean, he's mega fit as well, can I just say?
Like, you know?
Yeah, he looks he looks great and he, again, it's what you were
saying about casting.
The casting is so good because at this stage in his life, he is
very pretty and sort of classically good looking.
And when he's, you know, he's very still at times and he's
standing like a Grecian statue and he's got the very full features
of his face.
His lips are enormous.
You know, he has that classical look.
And you've got John Carson as Ambrill, you know, and he is
wonderfully pompous, and you've got Jonathan Morris as Sheila, and
he's lovely.
Like you were saying last week, Todd, the chemistry between Damon
and Nissa was great.
It's just turned up to 15 with Sheila and Nissa, you know.
They are so adorable together.
He's really pretty and Fiona, of course, wins points again as the
director by putting men in dresses, right?
She always does. as she always does.
I do, I do think this, however, that, you know, again, when it's
him and Mr. and the doctor, Mr. becomes the 3rd wheel, and it's
one of the disappointments I find in this story is the fact that
the last time out, he didn't even write her into the story, nobody
bothered, like the easiest thing was to write her out rather than
to write her in.
Here she's here, but she's very perfunctory.
Obviously, Tegan takes the most of the limelight because of her
mental condition.
But what's Nissa given to do?
This is given to look after Tegan.
She fails at that.
Then, of course, she comes back to her, and then she runs off, and
then she fails to find her, and then the doctor gives Nissa the
great thing of trying to get him out of the cell, and lo and
behold, what does she get to do?
rough a few a few pages on a desk, go down a bland corridor and
she fails at that.
You know, her 3 big moments in this story are screening, fantastic
scream at the end of the cliffhanger where they're going to be all
killed, being a bitch to the doctor when he tries to help her down
off the Rockcliff, and in episode one when she turns up wearing
the most hideous, biggest bow thing ever.
They're her 3 moments.
And Sarah Sutton does a wonderful job.
Yeah, yeah, she's great.
But I just think the character, again, of the 3 regulars in this
unfortunately, I just think gets pushed very much for me anyway.
I just don't think I wanted more after last week.
I wanted her to have more.
I just wanted more, and in this, I just was disappointed.
See, I think last week was a bit of a tour de force for Nessa.
And so this week becomes a more of a tour de force for Tegan.
And Janet Hamara performance in this, much like her performances
Tegan. moved on from last year.
And I think that it's a polarising performance.
I've heard people expressing different opinions.
Richard and I were actually discussing it early this week because
he was saying, oh, you know, I'm looking forward to hearing you
guys talk about snake dance.
I think it's going to be really fun, but here's what I think.
He and I are of the same mind that Janet is just really electric
in this.
Richard's also cited John Carson, who I mentioned earlier.
I want to come back to something you were saying earlier, Todd
about the doctor being locked up for all of episode three.
It is a common problem in the Davis era.
And it reaches its Nadir with Colin, and that is not the fault of
Davidson or Colin.
But I think this is one story where it actually works.
I disagree.
Why do you think that, though?
This is a story in which the Mara can only be defeated at a
certain moment.
It can't be defeated before that moment comes.
It can't be defeated after that moment.
It has to be defeated in the moment of its becoming, which the
doctor will retread next week when Tegan asks him about it.
So the doctor has to be locked up.
He has to be locked up for episode 3 because otherwise he won't be
in the right position to do anything in episode four.
So normally when the doctor's locked up like that, it's just a
delaying tactic to spin the story out and prevent him getting to
its resolution.
Now, the thing is here, it's still a delaying tactic to prevent
the story getting to its resolution, but that prevention is
actually built into the plan of the plot.
The other reason I really like the doctor getting locked up.
And again, this is something I was discussing with Richard.
As Richard puts it, Pete is the anti-Tom.
So Tom would walk into a room and say, you're all in terrible
danger.
Something terrible, mysterious is about to happen.
And people would go, oh, right, okay.
Well, you come over here and you take charge then.
Whereas Pete walks in and says that and everyone goes, he's a
bloody nutter.
Chuck him in the cells until the party's over, which is what real
people would do.
In fact, that stuff is great.
And that's something that Xander refers to as well.
Pete's actually a little bit more manic in his performance in this
story.
And so he does look like a madman.
He does look like someone who's, uh, you know, and we gather that
there's a whole history of people kind of obsessed with the Mara
and with sort of crazy theories about the Mara and Amber, who's
this academic, who's terribly pompous and self-important, um, is
used to just dismissing those people as crackpots.
And Pete looks like a bit of a crackpot, the way he comes around.
And of course, that's why Amber gets so incredibly angry when Pete
points out about the 5 faces of delusion.
That was so brilliant.
That whole, like, just the 3 actors and the way they perform it.
Like Pete is just utterly sincere and, oh, I'm teaching you
something here and John Carson, as Amber, is outraged and Sheila
is trying not to wet his pants laughing.
It's such a beautiful little scene.
Yeah, it's not like it has any major bearing on the plot later.
Like the helmet doesn't become important or anything.
It's not a McGuffin, but it's thematic.
It's the doctor is the outsider who is able to see the whole
pattern of what's going on.
Whereas these supposed experts.
Can't see the whole pattern because they don't see their place
within it. think it's a beautiful moment.
I think one of the things when I was watching this is that I felt
that the doctor came across as being autistic.
In many ways.
Like Misa walks in in this new costume and he doesn't even
register that change.
When he's talking to Amberl and trying to get his point across
he's oblivious to any of the cues to say you're not getting your
point across.
I mean, I teach kids with autism who can't see people's emotions
and that sort of thing.
So that's the way it came across to me.
I know it's supposed to be like it's supposed to be alien and that
sort of thing, but well, for the last bit of run where I felt
Peter's just been very nice, you know, and suddenly, suddenly
there's this sort of big contrast in what he's doing.
I mean, I actually think it's really good that I can see this sort
of frustration in the doctorate.
It reminds me of perchway in season 7 where he sort of barges in
and everybody, you know, and is having a go at people saying
warning them and they're not listening.
I think that's really good And it sells it with Amber, who I think
his performance is actually, I think, one of the best Amber or 2
because that character could be really crap.
But you know when you meet reasonable people who can argue any
point of view based on their interpretation of facts.
But, you know, their interpretation is very narrow.
Yes, but they're perfectly reasonable to themselves and everybody
around them.
You know, and I think he does just a brilliant job with that.
In the 2nd half of the story, I just feel like the doctor is in
that cell, I don't feel like there's any great, maybe
characterisation.
He gets to go and meet the man with the snakes and then come back
and save the day.
So I really like the doctor's characterisation in those 1st 2
episodes.
I want to go back and watch I actually want to go back and watch
the 1st 2 episodes because I had that sort of thing in my head is
about the doctor's performance.
Having watched now ahead in season 21 and seeing what Peter's
doing in season 21, which I think is great.
It's like, this is why I want to come back and watch that.
But the 2nd episodes I'm less inclined with his character and
everything like that, I just think it's a bit...
He does get a bit de-emphasized in favour of sort of Tegan and
what's going on with Amber and Lon.
I know in Crown Cross, it's overly critical of it.
I think Peter does a really great job in this story.
Don't get me wrong.
Remember, Peter Davidson is my least favourite doctor.
And so for me it's always hard to distance myself from that
perception.
I think he's really doing a great job here and he's given great
material.
I think it's the best material he actually has all season.
Having Janet have such great material as well, you know, I don't
like her in episode one very much.
Like I don't like when she's wandering through the marketplace
with the little earpiece in and being led by the hand and stuff
and she's sort of vulnerable and she's a bit pathetic and we do
mark time a bit at the beginning of episode one with those scenes
in the TARDIS and maybe we need to do that to kind of sell the
possession by the Mara.
Yeah, I think I think it sells a few.
It sells, for instance, that Tegan is now back because we didn't
have the TARDIS prop in Amsterdam.
We don't see her getting into the target.
So it kind of sells, yep, she's back on the show.
I think the other thing it sells is she's not safe anywhere.
Yeah.
Because, you know, the TARDIS is supposed to be this safe
environment, which they'd already started to break down that
impression with Earthshock, of course.
But she's not even safe in the Tardis.
And Christopher Bailey, the writer when he talks about this
story.
He talks about what he saw as some of the frustrations with how
Kinder had been mounted.
So for instance, he didn't realise in setting it outdoors, that he
wouldn't be totally happy with the outdoor set.
So he sets it in a market and he sets it indoors.
And he's like, oh, okay, I didn't really like the 20 foot high
snakes. so he makes them are smaller.
A lot of the production elements of this story and the way they're
presented is Christopher Bailey's response to the interpretation
of his own work and he doesn't kind of say, oh, they did it wrong
but he kind of goes, you know, I didn't realise what the program
could do well, what it couldn't do.
Well, I looked at what it could do.
Well, it can do interior sets really well and it can do
marketplaces and what have you.
I actually think the sort of dragon dance snake that is a big
plastic pink snake that's going through the marketplace.
I think that's Christopher Bailey making fun of the snake at the
island of Kinder.
If this story were made now.
The cult of the Mara and people treating the Mara like a toy and
selling toys of it.
That would be a satire of the action figure market.
And I suppose at the time you didn't have doctor action figures.
Yeah, Star Wars action figures, which had massively taken off in
those previous few years.
So that might be a comment on that.
I guess the whole thing is like the reason that the Mara appears
in sort of hilarious domestic violence themed Punch and Judy shows
and the reason that you can buy like toy snakes and and there's
the dragon dance is that this is a situation where the Mara is a
legend, it's not real, and no one believes in it anymore.
And so you've got Ambrill, who is interested in the legend of the
Mara, has a great deal of knowledge about it and, you know, wants
more. his greed for that knowledge that actually leads to the Mars
becoming at the end.
So the Mara is not real.
We know it's real because we saw Kinder last year, but for these
people, it's not real.
So it just goes to show how unprepared they are, you know, to face
the threat.
Yeah, it's really great.
I like the fact that the snake is in the Punch and Judy show, but
I don't like people watching the Punch and Judy.
Like, I hate Punch and Judy.
Like, I hate...
And watching explicable.
Watching people watch it is boring.
And this time, like last week we had little kids watching some
show and they had hideous jumpers this week, the kids are just
hideous.
You know, and I just sit there going, oh, please shoot me now.
Like, I mean, talk about some of the production elements here is
you've got Fiona doing a fairly good job with the marketplace
trying to sell that.
I'm not completely convinced all the time.
It's like we've got like one big corridor and an offshoot and
that's about it.
I don't think there's enough people at the end, you know, as the
procession goes through.
But I mean, that's in Doctor Who's admitted budget.
I love the outdoor sets that are set on film.
I think they look fantastic.
You know, that is wonderful.
You've then got all the interior sets, which I believe were
borrowed off the song for Europe set and it's been redressed.
But at the same time, I don't know.
I find them quite sterile, like that corridor that they go down
which like last week we had some sort of sterile corridors, blocky
sort of white corridors in Arc of Infinity.
So for those sequences in those episodes, I get a bit sort of like
okay, it's the same thing.
And then we have that cliffhanger, with long threatening to kill
the doctor with the people wearing, with the people wearing the
stuff out of 4 to Doomsday.
And Nissa gives a blood curdling scream, but then...
It's another one of those cliffhangers we talked about them last
season.
The cliffhanger which ends on someone saying, kill him, and then
the next episode resumes with someone walking in and saying, stop.
And that's what Lady Tanha does here.
You know what?
I usually hate it, but the fact that it's her and the way she does
it, I actually quite like it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And, you know, Sarah Sutton gives a great scream, but she says in
the making of, when I look at that, what exactly am I screaming
at?
The swords know where near me and I'm grabbing onto Pete's arm
have I realised I'm allergic to his jacket?
don't know.
It's blood curdling.
She gives the same blood curdling screaming terminus as well.
And um, and last week in um, in Ark of Infinity.
A good Doctor Who scream, if you like, because one of the
stereotypes, so not entirely undeserved, of the female styles of
Doctor Who is that they just scream at things.
And when they're at their worst... when they're written at their
worst, yes, they do.
But when they're written at their best, The screams are occasional
they're truly terrifying and emotional, and they're effective
because of that.
So yeah, NISA screens in what foot of doomsday, and she does
scream in these 3 stories here.
But each time it's like, no, that's that's an understandable
reaction, not so much in snake dance, unfortunately.
A word about the sets, and this came from Richard, and we would be
in great trouble if we didn't include it.
The Mara Cave.
It's German expressionism.
Of course it is.
Can I talk about the fact that Tegan leads Lon to the Mara Cave?
And then she gets to disappear for about 15 to 20 minutes of the
story just, she's just waiting.
Hanging out in the cave.
Yeah, yeah.
She's just waiting.
She just disappears.
And that's one of my problems I have with Kinder, is the fact that
she's just asleep for a whole episode.
He just leaves her hanging.
She does get that.
Is it the cliffhanger where they go, look at me, look at me.
That's right.
You will look at me.
I remember that as a kid because my sister and I used to grab each
other at the head. and go, look at me.
That's right.
Look at me, look at Mandarin.
I don't know why we came up with that, but that's the one
overriding memory I have of this.
There's very little peril because, of course, the Mara isn't in it
until the very end.
It's all about the Mara becoming.
So there is actually very little threat leading up to that.
But those 2 cliffhangers, Cliffhanger to episode one and to
episode 2 are both about Tegan being really scary.
And she really manages that well.
And those scenes with the snake skulls.
So 1st in the in the fortune tellers crystal ball, and then
replacing her head in the Funhouse mirror.
I think they're really frightening and really effective.
Yeah, and for once, the CSO in Tegan's dream sequence very early
on and her just sort of being not actually walking but being moved
up the staircase into the mouth of the cave, it's really well
done.
You kind of expect Doctor Who to have dodgy CSO.
But they start to use it a bit more sparingly in the 1980s and
it's kind of like, no, let's actually get the shots right.
Let's not have another underworld or the mutants or something like
that.
Let's actually make this look as good as possible.
And that dream is terrifying.
Is that the dream where she's lying in benches, I'm in my garden
silly.
Oh, well, that's later on.
But even, even that's, you know, that's lovely. that's Janet.
And it's a little bit silly, but it's a little bit menacing as
well.
Well, she tells lies in her garden or something.
Like, there is, there's something, there's some moral failing
that's, that's causing the Mara to have some kind of tone.
Or, you know, is the Mara now seeping back into her childhood and
it's open to interpretation.
I'm not I'm not going to try and make an answer here.
I agree with you in that.
I like Janet's performance in this immensely.
Like, I think she is really great.
The Kinder performance, I think, is much broader and I still think
she's in her playhouse acting stage.
I know you guys disagree with me, possibly with that, but I prefer
this performance and that's probably why I don't like, it's
another thing about Hindu.
I don't like as much in retrospect.
Last week we had one monster, which was called the Ergon, and it
killed no one.
This week we have Damara and it kills.
No one.
Actually, no one dies in this story.
That's right.
That's not a bad thing.
I just begin to get a bit sick that, you know, next week, actually
nobody dies except for the people who want to die, and the week
after that, the big, huge creature that's in there kills no one.
Like, it just becomes this pattern of the creature or whatever
kills no one.
And it's something that, possibly, thematically I have a problem
with, watching things in order, it really began to do my head.
You're not having actual proper monsters, they're a little bit
more conceptual or something.
For me, I need to feel a threat, a real threat that people have
died.
For me, that's my interpretation adopted who, whereas this is
obviously on a different level and I don't connect with it as
much.
Right.
Yeah, I will say this season runs into a bit of a problem and it's
a bit of a problem of over-promise and I'm to deliver because the
1st few scripts were sort of conceptualised and it was like, oh
you know, we'll bring back, we'll bring back over a story and
we'll, we should do another Mara story that was quite popular last
season.
Oh, and we're bringing back the Black Guardian.
And someone went, oh, hold on.
So far, we've got an element from the past in every story.
Let's advertise the season as that.
And of course, they were going to end on a dalek story, which
doesn't end up happening.
But the problem is, you know, it's kind of like we've got elements
from the past.
We've got Omega, and we've got the Mara from 6 months ago, and
we've got the Black Guardian 3 times over.
Oh, and the White Guardian, you know.
And the master from 3 months ago.
And Daleks?
It's like, uh, um, yeah, and it led to that fan room of it
terminus was going to have the ice warriors in it, which
apparently was never even considered, but people were clutching at
bringing this old stuff back.
But it doesn't look like they've actually considered what do
people want to come back?
When you look at the 50th anniversary seasons.
Series 7.
You've got a Dalek story.
You've got a weeping angel story, you've got nice warrior story
and you've got a Cyberman story.
I have no memory of series 7.
Series 7's greatest crime is that it's a bit forgettable.
That's the thing.
Oh, and of course it has.
Solarian and unit, you know.
So, that had sort of organic stories grown around these returning
elements.
Whereas I think the returning elements this season and Snake Dance
is probably the exception in that Snake Dance is a bloody good
story in its own right with a returning monster.
Yeah, you could have done snake dance.
And in fact, it kind of it kind of wants there to be a sequel in a
way, just given the way that Tegan has left at the end of Kinder.
So it kind of happens naturally.
And if it hadn't been the 20th anniversary, we probably would
still have seen a sequel to Kinder.
Yeah, whereas I think some other stories in the season, not all of
them.
Some of the stories in the season, once they've decided on that, A
monster from the past in every story, hook, they just kind of go
we've got Omega in a story.
Okay, what's the story?
We've got Omega in a story.
You know, it's like there's, I would say, at least 3 stories this
season.
Snake Dance is not one of them, but Arc of Infinity is, where
they've gone, oh, we've got this returning monster and we've got
this returning monster, you know, and they think that's going to
be enough.
It's just not enough.
Yeah.
And in fact, what they do with the Mara in this is, I think, really
incredibly clever, because when we 1st meet the Mara, they're some
strange force from the dark places of the inside.
They're kind of supernatural or demons or something like that.
They come into our reality through the, you know, dreaming of an
unshared mind and they're completely spoken of in sort of magical
or mythological terms.
And in this story, we actually get the origin of the Mara.
We actually find out how they were created.
And it is like a science fiction-y thing.
There's a lost technology that created these crystals that
rayified people's thoughts, turned thoughts into reality.
But the people were evil.
Or there was evil inside those people, the same way that there's
evil inside little baby Tegan in her garden telling lies, and that
that evil creates the Mara.
And so the Mara is the result of human evil.
It's something that people have created.
And so it is science fiction in this talk of sort of 0 gravity and
all of that sort of stuff and flawless crystals and things.
But it doesn't rob it of its mythology.
You know, like it's not a big ophidian monster that evolved on the
planet Maros.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, or something stupid.
It's still, it's still sort of symbolic of what it had been
symbolic of in Kinder.
I think it's really good.
The best science fiction is not the science fiction that's based
around the fact that we're on rocket ships and flying around sons
and what have you.
The best science fiction could still be told in any setting
because it's about the species you're looking at.
So, you know, usually in our case it's humanity.
Now, obviously you've got writers like Larry Niven, who will write
stories where there are no human characters, but we can still
recognise humanity, if you like, in the characters, or the whole
story becomes about the fact that these characters are totally
alien and we cannot recognise anything within them.
Yeah, when you get science fiction, there is just about the 0
gravity welding, blah, blah, mega flammity converters.
Like Arc of Infinity, friends.
Yeah, you know, the it's a pulse loop. an impulse laser.
We've got a molecular 0 G bonding feel.
Something's happening with the transduction barrier.
Yeah, you know.
It's, it, it, that probably appeals to a certain audience in the
same way that Michael Bay and Roland Emmerick films appeal to
certain audiences and if you enjoy those, I'm not, I'm not saying
you're wrong, you know.
No, but you are a bad person.
Well, look, I can enjoy a Roland Emmerick film at times.
But the point is, if you, if you want sort of meatiness and depth
to a story, it has to be a story where if you, if you rip out the
decoration, if you like, if you set it in a different place, it
still works.
And that, I mean, that is why, and we criticised it at the time
and I still kind of roll my eyes at the fact they did it, so many
Hinchcliffe stories were ripped off from classic literature
because remove the context of those stories, and the basic idea of
Frankenstein, and the basic idea of the thing from another world
and the Loch Ness monster and that sort of thing, those ideas work
in any setting.
Yeah.
Because, you know, Frankenstein's about the humanity of the
monster, forbidden planet, much like, much, like snake dance is
about monsters from the id, that kind of thing.
But yet, you need to have that humanity in the story, really.
This is a story that has no villain as well, isn't it?
But the Mara gets brought about or nearly gets brought about
because each person there has a floor.
Yes.
So you have Tegan's floor, Amber is greedy for knowledge and
greedy for, you know, those artefacts.
Lon is arrogant and doesn't really care about anyone.
You know, like all of those things.
Those are all sort of minor faults.
I think Lady Tanha's name means thirst, actually.
All of those are just tiny little petty flaws in people's
character.
And just like the way the Mara was originally created.
It's going to be recreated, just because the surrounding people
all have these sort of moral flaws.
That's very true.
And I can see why that's appealing now as an adult.
I still, I struggle with the fact that there isn't really, for me
a central sort of villain and if it is Tegan possessed by the Mara
she was never going to kill anyone because how could the character
live with herself if she did?
I mean, that, I can see that it's been, I mean, that's obvious.
But it's also a weakness is the fact that nobody dies, in my
opinion.
So there is this sort of strange thing, isn't it?
And I feel the same way in some sense that what I kind of want
Doctor Who to be about is, you know, like monsters invading the
earth or or, you know, people getting murdered in a confined space
or something like that.
Like all of that stuff, I think, is is really central to what.
Doctor Who is.
And so perhaps we have a run of stories a little bit too long, but
doesn't have any of that sort of stuff.
I guess the last thing that we had was what, the visitation where
it was just sort of straightforward evil aliens posing a threat.
Oh, earth shock.
Maybe I might...
I kind of forgotten that.
I might feel differently if I watched this in isolation.
Someone said to me recently, it might have been a friend of the
podcast, Brian Lindsey said, but if you watch all these early
Davidsons in order, what we're talking about becomes quite obvious
and, well, for me, It's a problem.
But if you just come in and watch the one story and you haven't
watched the other ones around it, you might think more of the
story and not, it might not be that much of a problem.
See, I find I find the opposite thing in that I enjoy the Davidson
era much more if I watch it all in context.
I see the variations in Peter's performance because much like you
Todd, he's probably my least favourite and I know I mentioned last
season that I find new things in his performance each time I watch
it and watching the era through once with Rod and then watching it
through again for the podcast.
I really started to see.
Actually, there's a lot of subtlety in his performance.
And that thing you were talking about earlier where he's so
focussed on the problem he has set for himself that he doesn't
notice details around him, which, in a way, those details aren't
important.
That element of the character is usually there to a greater or
lesser degree.
But I think that element of the character is very greatly
dependent on whether Peter likes the script.
I don't think I don't necessarily think it's the making up for
this one, but in one of the makings of this season, Peter reckons
that he plays the doctor too nicely during this season in
particular.
You know, at times I think he is too nice over this period of time
but that's not necessarily always the case.
I think he's a bit harsh on himself and it's the script and it's
what characterisation actually give to his doctor.
I think when you get to the moment you get to warriors of deep
onwards.
He is so much better.
I'm really looking forward to that.
I'm already finding a lot to enjoy in what he's doing.
You know, I've been critical of the whole conception of Pete's
doctor.
He's not my least favourite doctor at all.
That one's still to come.
But the breathless thing that he does, the running, I really like
him panicky.
I really like when he's exasperated.
I think his relationship with Tegan is terrifically fun. is
sometimes he can be really charming.
He's not seen stealing. you know what I mean?
He's not as compelling as his predecessor or even kind of his
successor.
But I think it's an acting performance that I really like.
And I think it's kind of underappreciated, just given given the
context of the other 2 doctors, the 2 doctors on either side, and
also just given the general low quality of what he's given to do
as a script, I think.
I agree with you on the low quality with the scripts and what he
he is elevating that.
I don't think he's underappreciated.
My opinion, no, it's very different to yours.
I think he's giving, I'm getting more out of his performance, but
I still think that it takes up to the 5 doctors before he really
works it out.
I'm not quite up to that yet, and I am looking forward to it.
I have a vague memory that you're right, that he really sort of
kicks into gear in season 21 and I'm just looking forward to
actually seeing that happen.
There's an energy.
With somebody leaving.
There's an energy.
There's this frenetic energy that he has.
And all those little traits that you've talked about are suddenly
not under the surface or downplay, they're over the surface.
He's using his acting performance to work out what the character's
going to be because essentially he's come into it and no one has
any idea of what he's going to be like.
And you can see things that he tries in Fort a Doomsday that he
never tries again.
And then I guess all of that sort of running about being
exasperated and stuff is what he ends up adopting and then he goes
in and sort of properly plays that in season 21, do you think?
It's like a clear idea of what the character is.
And I also think the writing is there for him as well.
Yes, yeah, the writing definitely improves next year.
See, I think this is still broad strokes, except for Christopher
Bailey.
He's got it.
Yeah, yeah, he's great.
Yeah, yeah.
Isn't isn't it funny?
Sort of, actually, I won't say this is the best story of the
season, but it's not far off in this story we're talking about, the
quality of the writing because we know what's coming.
The thing is, I just want to clarify when I say he's my least
favourite doctor.
That's a bit like me saying my least favourite Avengers sidekick.
They're all brilliant.
And, you know, incidentally, I'm sorry, it's Mike Gambit.
Yeah, he's shockingly bad.
Whoever let him off Metabulous 3, for God's sake.
But that's the thing.
He's still great.
But, you know, I'm one of these mad people who probably prefers
Tara King and Kathy Gale to end the peel.
Oh, I can hear Steve over in Western Australia disowning me at...
That is crazy.
My big thing, Brendan, is that I just wish the stories that he was
given in the 1st 2 series were consistently better.
Like I have episodes that I really like and then there's episodes
that I don't like, or there's a through line through a story that
I really like, and there's other things that I really dislike, and
there's nothing thus far I can give more than 8 out of 10 to.
That's just me.
Yeah, yeah.
And this gets an 8 and it's sort of like I want I want to be able
to say in these 2 series, any of these stories could be in my top
20 Doctor Who's.
And quite honestly, as I sit here now, I can't say that.
Yeah.
There's there's probably one in these 2 seasons that I could put
inside my top 20.
And I think part of the problem is, you're not going to tell us
what it is?
Not yet.
A lot of the creative decisions, there seems to be an air of it'll
be all right on the night.
And you know what?
You might be able to manage that with one story per season, but
when you've got that attitude for 6 or 7 stories.
I think the success has become more a matter of luck than a matter
of skill.
And the only time I can really think of, oh, it'll be all right on
the night has actually worked out in Doctor Who is City of Death.
And that everyone on that just kind of goes, yeah, lightning just
struck.
You know, we just got we got the perfect cast and the perfect
script and the perfect location.
You know, I think snake dance kind of exemplifies that in the same
way.
You do have a great cast and you've got a cracking script, which
probably, as much as I love it, could do with a bit of
tightening.
Well, going back to what you're saying about episode 3 where we
disagree, I think if they'd said you've got 3 episodes, the doctor
wouldn't have been in itself for 3 episodes and everything would
have been fast forwarded, right?
And so that's where I come from with that bit of perspective.
So, and I think, you know, having the director they had, the
writer they had and the director, she just casts it and it just
sells it and that's why I generally like this.
Yeah, I think there is a sort of strange problem, as I hinted
before, at the structure which is no maltster actually really
appears until the last 5 minutes of the story.
There's a lot of waiting, but the waiting is, I think, really
entertaining and for the reasons you identified.
Can we talk about the snake?
Go ahead.
I don't care that the snake at the end of Kinder is terrible and
it is terrible.
It's a big plastic snake.
It can see over the mirrors, so I don't know why it's affected by
being trapped in a circle of mirrors.
It can't even see them.
It's huge and kind of silly and unconvincing, but it doesn't
matter.
Um, just generally because that story is quite good.
Here, the snake, I think, is really, really surprisingly
effective.
So it doesn't for a 2nd not look like a puppet.
You know, it's obviously a puppet, but this time it's it's
glistening.
Yeah, there's an organic quality to it.
So it feels like it's got a mouthful of venom.
It's got an articulated tongue.
It just looks eviler and more frightening than the other one.
And so I think it's really good.
It's yet another monster that pours snot out of its head when it's
killed.
We didn't talk about Omega last week.
Snotty McSnot faced.
Yeah, that's 3 stories running.
Yeah, where snots come out of the alien.
It's the BBC snort machine.
And the fact that they dispatch the Mara and genuinely kill it and
then they're out of there too.
There's no stupid goodbyes or anything like that.
It's just Pete says the Mara has been destroyed.
We come full circle from the beginning of the story where we had
thought it destroyed, but it wasn't.
It's still alive.
And Pete just very definitely says the Mara's been destroyed and
then we're out.
I think that's really good.
The sound design of that scene with Pete phasing down the Mara
with Tegan's face in the middle of it.
That is terrifying. was terrified by that when I was 11 years
old.
And the silence.
There's a really eerie silence once the Mar has been defeated as
well.
Yeah, you know, Peter Howell doesn't go...
There was a scene recorded of them leaving.
Which, um, Fiona Cumming dropped mainly for timing reasons, episode
4 runs to uh, 24 and a half minutes.
Right.
But in that, in that scene, Yeah, it would have been a far worse
ending.
It's in the deleted scenes and pretty much it's a few hours
later.
The whole market gathers to see the doctor, Lissa and Tegan often
thank them for dealing with the Mara and kind of Lon and Amber go
oh, we were so stupid.
Yes, you were.
It's well performed.
They've learned a valuable less.
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
It's the cousin of the scene with Hindle and Sanders saying, thank
you, sir.
Thank you, sir, at the end.
But it's not as good.
There is one rather lovely bit at the end where they talk about
could the Mara come back and the doctor says, well, you know, it
comes from your negative impulses and the fact that you don't deal
with them and you don't talk about them.
So the choice is up to you, and that's the last line.
And that is a lovely last line.
But the rest of the scene building up to it is just kind of Scooby
Doo.
So kudos to Fiona coming for dropping that scene and just ending
us on.
It's weird.
It a triumphant. a downbeat triumphant ending.
It's really raw and emotional and Janet does a great job.
You know, she's such a long way away from the person who came into
the Tardus and told us her name was Tegan all those years ago.
It really is a joy to see her. surprised and delighted by this
story.
And you know what?
You know how I said I don't think this is the best story of the
season?
I still think it's probably the best story so far for Davidson, for
the Davidson era.
I'm expecting it to be the best story of the season, but I haven't
watched Enlightenment yet on the way through for the podcast, so
we'll see.
Interesting.
I really liked the visitation.
After listening to your podcast.
You did a number on Jekyll.
But I went into the visitation with low expectations, like from
the previous time I watched it.
So I think it sort of went a bit too high.
Like I gave out 8.5 , but I now pegged it back to 8 and as Nathan
said, it's just tumourous.
So I actually think I prefer to watch this than that.
So this is my favourite Davidson thus far..
Well, as we take off from the Noosa, we'll be back with our
podcast on Morden Undead.
Until then, you can find us on Flightthrough Entirety.sexy, Flight
Through Entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on
Twitter.
Over on Bondfinger, we have various Roger Moore commentaries up to
and including Moon Ray car.
That's on bondfinger.com, bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and
bondfinger cast on Twitter.
And over on YouTube, Doctor Who in 10 seconds is still up to
season six, but season 7 is coming out. next week.
So until next time, may none of your snakes die dribbling snort
out of their eyeballs.
Thank you very much for listening and good night.
Good night.
See you later, Mara.
That was Flight Through Entirety with Todd Bealby, Nathan
Bottomley, and Brendan Jones.
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.
This episode, Tiny Little Petty Floors, was recorded on July 24th
2016.
The next episode will be released on August 21st, offering
temptation in fear, despair and greed.
Is this Doctor Who or Big Brother?
We're good burp.
Oh, dear.
Sorry, I've been drinking soda water.
I wasn't expecting that.
That's the marrow.
Shaming people.