WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 16:20:56

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Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast you entirely understand, a teacher

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having a nervous breakdown.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan And I'm Todd.

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And uh, we're back to school now for Modron Undead.

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So, Peter Grimwade apparently begged and pleaded with the script

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editor, Eric Saywood, to have a second chance after last year's

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time flight.

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Well, I'm glad he did get a second chance because this is so much

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better than that.

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Oh, yes.

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And of course, the wonderful director assigned to direct this is

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the ever talented Mr. Peter Moffat, who would just get better and

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better as the series continues.

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So I think in spite of a few people's names, I think there's

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actually, I quite like this.

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I would like to remove any suspense for our long-term listeners

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now who may recall that for ever since stated decay.

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I've been saying Peter Moffat is very good up until a point where

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he kind of retires from directing mid-story.

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It's this one.

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And I would like to cite the exact scene where I think he retires

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from directing.

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I believe it's episode 3 where the 2 brigadiers are wandering

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around the ship, and one wanders down a corridor towards the

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camera, and the other one wanders through the back of shot, and I

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think Peter Moffatt has just gone, oh, you know what?

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I just can't be bothered anymore, and it's just shot complete

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proscenium arch.

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You know, we've got this beautiful set.

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And until now, he, you know, he's been shooting at sort of not

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right angles, he's been shooting at odd angles and shooting into

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corners and that sort of thing.

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Not this 2 brigadier stuff.

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Screw this.

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I'm just pointing the cameras and off we go.

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And after this, his direction becomes a lot more stolid.

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So mystery over.

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My George has hit the floor.

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Like, I mean, I never expected it was this story.

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I didn't, for some reason, I thought it might have been Sarah Jane

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going down a small hill, somebody tripping over.

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Well, you see that's the same story.

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He never comes back to his former glory after this moment.

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He used to be quite good at stuff on location in particular, and

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he directed it quite a bit of survivors, which was shot on obi

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video and was kind of stylish.

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The location stuff here is lovely and we've got that beautiful

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tracking shot at the beginning with the school in the distance

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back up to the obelisk, so you know it becomes important later

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on.

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The location stuff is absolutely beautiful, which, you know, given

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that it's typical Doctor Who weather in that it's completely

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cloudy outside in both time periods is a challenge.

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But no, I've got no problem with the location stuff.

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I love the location stuff here.

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That big corridor, the green corridor coming back up to the school

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which actually looks like it would take a good 25 minutes to get

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up there.

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And it really opens up this story.

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I find the last 2 episodes set in these sterile corridors does my

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heading after the last 2 weeks where I've had corridors.

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I mean, it looks beautiful.

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It is so beautiful.

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It's so deco.

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Those corridors just look and they're so detailed and incredibly

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beautiful.

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I think it's a great bit of set design.

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I'm not tonight, but I just does my head in.

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I'm just there going, get me out of these corridors.

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Just get me out of here, please.

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I think episode 3 is a particularly bad example of it, which is

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just people wandering through corridors for 25 minutes.

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But let's jump back to the beginning of this story.

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And we're on location.

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We've got young men in shorts, running.

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Actually, I think they do really...

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Actually, I think they do quite well with the casting of the young

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guys at this college to try and make them appear almost as old as

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Mark Stritson.

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They Because I think he does look older.

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He's about 22 at this point, I think.

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And his star was rising, of course.

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He's just been on, I think it was Angels, which was the big kind

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of casualty or doctors of its day, like the big sort of hospital

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drama.

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And he had a choice.

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He had a choice between going regular on that because he was a

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supporting cast member and the young male lead, had had to leave

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the show.

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I think it I think it was some kind of personal problem.

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I can't remember exactly what it was.

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And so angels offered him full time, but they're like, oh, you

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know, we won't be able to get you to sign a contract for a few

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months, but you'll, you know, you'll be working full time.

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Whereas, yeah, he or had also heard Doctor Who were looking for a

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new lead actor, and he apparently actually went in to see JNT

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because, you know, BBC TV sent, he just kind of knocked on the

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door and he said, I hear you're looking for a new lead.

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I do have this offer over Angels, but I think this might be more

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interesting if I could read for you.

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And apparently JNT was very impressed by his forthrightness.

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You know, it didn't, I don't think, went through the usual channel

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of an agent calling.

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It was just, look, I'm here.

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I've heard it's on offer.

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I'm going to put myself forward because it sounds like a more

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interesting job and they're offering me this other job.

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I'm not really enjoying it as much.

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What do you think?

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So yeah, that's how Mark Strickson came to be.

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Thank goodness, because we've now got the strongest Doctor Who

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cast to the 1980s as far as I'm concerned.

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These 4 regulars are the strongest, not to say that they're going

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to get the material that will live up to that benchmark at all at

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the one time, but I think they're the strongest cars to the 80s.

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Do you know, I think that Sarah Sutton is really, really terrific

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but I'm going to be happier when she leaves just because now we

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just have 3 leads and they can manage it and we're not going to be

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constantly exasperated by the sidelining of NISA.

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Yeah.

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And something I realised we didn't mention last week.

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And I'm sure someone on Twitter has picked us up for this.

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We didn't mention Mrs. New Frock last week.

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Her sort of fantails rapper, candy floss.

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Oh, Todd, Todd...

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Todd mentioned it.

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He wasn't a fan.

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But she's got a new outfit this week.

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Yes, much better.

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Matching Eyeshadow as well.

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Yes.

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It's a much better outfit this week Last week thing looked like

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she was in an Anne Getty's postcard.

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You know how they will have bows on their heads and that sort of

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thing, but it was just the biggest bow ever.

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Do you remember the Virgin Missing Adventures when they were 1st

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released in the 1990s?

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The very 1st one was called Goth Opera by Paul Cornell, and it had

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a picture of Nissa in that outfit, but she turned into a vampire

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and she had like blood.

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She'd vomited blood all over the outfit and it was so horrific.

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I think W.H.

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Smith said that they wouldn't carry it in their store.

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And so all of those blue stripes and stuff had to be kind of wiped

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off it along with the bloodstains.

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Yeah, it became a white blouse with just a couple of droplets on

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there.

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Yeah.

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But it's basically that outfit from last time.

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This one's a lot better.

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Oh yeah, it is a much better outfit for Sarah Sutton as an actor.

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And it is a much better, I think, character choice for Nissa.

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Maybe last week it was meant to be a kind of joke if she comes

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from this repressed society and her 1st attempt to...

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You've stolen my notes. stolen my notes, but continue.

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You know, her 1st attempt to dress more interestingly, puts her in

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this absolutely horrid frock.

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And the weird thing was, like, that was the new costume for her

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and it was made and everything.

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And then all of a sudden in modern undead.

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She appears in this other thing instead after it's only been in

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there for one story.

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But there was a big press call in Amsterdam and they brought that

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new party frock, if you like, over.

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I think it was kind of used in the studio and they went, oh dear

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God, what have we done?

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Get this.

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And you don't often put these 2 words together, but get this nice

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gray mini dress.

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You know, the idea of something that is nice and gray, go, gray

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that's not very interesting.

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But the gray with the yellow trim.

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It looks great.

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And there is something scientific and clinical about it.

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It's kind of like a lab tunic.

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But you wanted to be a bit aristocratic as well, and I think it

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pulls that off too.

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Yeah, yeah.

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It's strange how it's such a simple outfit, but it's so

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effective.

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So Doctor Who Frock cast will be back next week.

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Nissa, in this story, I do think it's sidelined.

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Obviously, we've got a new... so unusual.

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I said that like, it was like...

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Well, unusual.

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But okay.

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Yes, again.

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You know?

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Teging is the one that gets to explore the world of 1977.

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We've got the new companion coming in and she just gets left in

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the Tartars at crucial times.

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She's a perfectly reasonable character, but, as you said, we're

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happier once there's 2 companions.

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And she's hearing this story, but again, you know, she's

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sidelined.

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She gets one really great moment in this story.

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It's otherwise a bit of a silly scene where, you know, the doctor

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and Turlo go off to repair the trans mat and Tegan and Nissa have

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to wait in the TARDIS and they go and get chairs.

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It just looks kind of silly.

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It's like they've gone.

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It's been a very long day.

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Get us some chairs.

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But the bit I love in that is when Tegan's saying, I don't trust

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Turlow.

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Why has he just stepped into this transmat caps?

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you'll No one does that, and Nissa just says, the way you did into

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the Tartis on the Barnet bypass.

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And it's just like, ooh.

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That was great.

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It's a great line.

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Really is.

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It's a great line, and it's so, like, Sarah just delivers it so

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well in that, you know, it's not a total horrible mean girls, you

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can't sit with a slide.

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But at the same time, it's like, oh, Tegan, come off it.

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Okay, yeah, no one's stupid enough to step into a strange object.

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Oh, yeah, you just walk into this glistening white control room

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and go, my name's Tegan Chevanka.

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Yeah whatever.

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How many times can we mention that on the podcast?

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Let's see.

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So, of course, Cello's front and centre right from the beginning

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with the car that he borrows.

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I mean, get that wonderful music.

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That's ridiculous.

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When I ride my bike to work, I have that music going in my head

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sometimes.

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And then he crashes off camera so that we don't have to pay for

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it.

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And then there's an awful, awful visual effect.

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It's like the BBC micro, isn't it?

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doing a sort of crappy screensaver of some kind.

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And one of this week's 20th anniversary returning elements of the

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show appears.

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A vulture with a bird on his head.

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Look, if you've got the chance to cast Valentine dial as a villain

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then go ahead.

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I mean, he is terrifically good.

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He is great.

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And there was a sense I felt at the time that the Black Guardian

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thing had been thrown away, you know, the way the doctor dealt

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with the Black Guardian was the randomiser, which he then just got

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bored with and stopped using.

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So it was sort of a hanging thread.

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But the Black Guardian wasn't a very successful element of the key

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to time series.

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Nathan, how many minutes did he actually appear in the key to

251
00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:47.039
time?

252
00:11:47.100 --> 00:11:51.059
That's right, for like 3 or something at the end of episode 6 of

253
00:11:51.059 --> 00:11:53.460
whatever the hell that story was called.

254
00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:55.799
So did the new audience even know who he is?

255
00:11:55.919 --> 00:11:56.639
Yeah.

256
00:11:56.639 --> 00:12:00.299
Well, the thing is, unlike Omega earlier on, they actually

257
00:12:00.299 --> 00:12:04.139
reestablish the Black Guardian's character here and who he is and

258
00:12:04.139 --> 00:12:06.240
what he wants.

259
00:12:06.299 --> 00:12:07.019
Exactly, you know.

260
00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:10.080
So it's a bit more of a successful return than Omega.

261
00:12:10.139 --> 00:12:12.960
I'd like to take this opportunity with that crappy vortex effect

262
00:12:13.019 --> 00:12:18.179
to talk about, just briefly, the DVD edition of this story, which

263
00:12:18.179 --> 00:12:22.200
much like Terminus and Enlightenment, has updated computer

264
00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:26.940
generated effects on which a friend of the podcast, Aaron J.

265
00:12:26.940 --> 00:12:29.940
Climus, was a rotoscoper.

266
00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:32.759
Oh, yep, Aaron's job.

267
00:12:32.820 --> 00:12:36.299
So, for instance, on that swirly background, et cetera, et cetera

268
00:12:36.360 --> 00:12:42.120
was to frame by frame, draw an outline around the Black Guardian

269
00:12:42.120 --> 00:12:44.700
and Turlow, so the background could be replaced.

270
00:12:44.759 --> 00:12:47.220
Is it a better background?

271
00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:48.779
It's slightly better.

272
00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:49.799
It's slightly better.

273
00:12:49.860 --> 00:12:53.399
So it uses the same colour scheme, but it's more sort of cloudy

274
00:12:53.399 --> 00:12:54.419
and vortex.

275
00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:58.740
And also Turlow appears with an actual effect rather than just to

276
00:12:58.740 --> 00:12:59.580
fade in.

277
00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:03.539
But I remember Aaron saying at the time, Yeah, you think 2 people

278
00:13:03.539 --> 00:13:06.299
just standing looking at a camera don't move very much.

279
00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:10.139
They move a lot, and one of them has a bird on his head.

280
00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:12.299
I mean, what is that?

281
00:13:12.360 --> 00:13:13.139
What is with that?

282
00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:14.340
The decisions.

283
00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:15.960
Just stupid.

284
00:13:16.019 --> 00:13:17.639
Yeah, that's a stupid costume.

285
00:13:17.700 --> 00:13:20.399
Look, the rest of the costume's okay, but the bird on his head is

286
00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:21.120
really ridiculous.

287
00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:24.960
And the only person with a bird on their head who looks more

288
00:13:24.960 --> 00:13:29.639
ridiculous than Valentine Dial is Cyril Luckam when he turns up in

289
00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:34.320
Enlightenment with that seagull head poking out of his wig.

290
00:13:34.379 --> 00:13:38.820
And he was so great in the Remos operation.

291
00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:42.419
I mean, he was so terrific because he was like, um, horrible

292
00:13:42.419 --> 00:13:47.879
colonial guy, you know, sitting at an unconvincing plantation

293
00:13:47.879 --> 00:13:50.879
somewhere drinking a drink and not really caring about anything

294
00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:55.200
and being slightly morally ambiguous.

295
00:13:55.259 --> 00:13:59.399
The fun thing about the guardians was, you know, they were

296
00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:02.879
responsible for the technology that included Princess Astra as a

297
00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:03.360
component.

298
00:14:03.419 --> 00:14:08.039
They weren't, it's not the unambiguously good guy and the

299
00:14:08.039 --> 00:14:11.039
unambiguously bad guy despite their names.

300
00:14:11.039 --> 00:14:15.360
And that's lampshaded at the end of the Armageddon fact, you know

301
00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:18.720
what if it's, what if I was colourblind?

302
00:14:18.779 --> 00:14:21.059
What if the Black Guardian was really the White Guardian?

303
00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:22.919
Here, they're a stupid idea.

304
00:14:22.980 --> 00:14:27.059
But fortunately, Valentine Dial's given the job of kind of

305
00:14:27.059 --> 00:14:29.159
tempting and seducing Turlough.

306
00:14:29.220 --> 00:14:34.500
So he has a fun thing to do, and he does it terrifically well in

307
00:14:34.500 --> 00:14:34.980
this story.

308
00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:36.480
Yeah, yeah.

309
00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:37.980
This is all I'm up to.

310
00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:39.720
I've never seen a Doctor Who story after this.

311
00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:42.000
Spoiler alert, people.

312
00:14:42.059 --> 00:14:45.899
It's gonna play out and it's gonna get tired very, very quickly

313
00:14:47.340 --> 00:14:51.299
let's just focus on how good this is for now Because we're not

314
00:14:51.299 --> 00:14:52.200
going to be able to do that next week.

315
00:14:52.259 --> 00:14:54.899
But, you know, it's, you know, it's obviously submachinery quickly

316
00:14:54.899 --> 00:14:58.139
that, you know, Turlo has got a mission to kill the doctor.

317
00:14:58.200 --> 00:15:01.440
So it's gonna keep us, well, entertained for 4 episodes, possibly.

318
00:15:01.500 --> 00:15:05.159
And is it established this early that he's not from Earth?

319
00:15:05.220 --> 00:15:05.879
Yeah, yeah.

320
00:15:05.940 --> 00:15:07.019
He says he hates her.

321
00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:08.399
That's a little bit confusing, I think.

322
00:15:08.460 --> 00:15:12.899
I think there's something about his look too, that reinforces

323
00:15:12.899 --> 00:15:13.139
that.

324
00:15:13.259 --> 00:15:14.759
They gel his eyebrows.

325
00:15:14.820 --> 00:15:16.139
Yeah, the eyebrows.

326
00:15:16.139 --> 00:15:17.039
They sort of spike them up.

327
00:15:17.100 --> 00:15:18.600
So we've got the Black Guardian.

328
00:15:18.659 --> 00:15:23.279
We've got cello who could be not from earth at this and we do cut

329
00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:27.779
back to the car crash and there's an old recurring friend

330
00:15:27.779 --> 00:15:31.200
investigating his car and then, of course, is Nick Courtney as the

331
00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:31.679
brigadier.

332
00:15:31.740 --> 00:15:32.399
Hooray.

333
00:15:32.460 --> 00:15:37.379
Oh, I just get this wonderful sense of joy and anticipation like I

334
00:15:37.379 --> 00:15:41.399
did with Arc of Infinity, you know, every time, like, you know

335
00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:43.620
Leila's mentioned or something like that.

336
00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:45.779
And here it's the brigadier and it's like, yes.

337
00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:46.379
Yeah.

338
00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:51.419
Except he's really obnoxious. horrible.

339
00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:56.279
No, you see, I like that because we find out later that he's lost

340
00:15:56.279 --> 00:15:57.299
his memory of the doctor.

341
00:15:57.360 --> 00:15:58.500
Oh, yeah.

342
00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:02.399
I think there's a definite arc and the idea is the brigadier has

343
00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:05.879
forgotten who he was and has forgotten what he was like as the

344
00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:10.740
brigadier, but this is about recovering that and he's back to our

345
00:16:10.740 --> 00:16:12.299
old friend, the brigadier.

346
00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:14.519
And he gradually 83 brigadier.

347
00:16:14.580 --> 00:16:15.720
Gradually gets better and better.

348
00:16:15.779 --> 00:16:20.399
But for instance, he body shames Ibbots and, you know, says how

349
00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:23.820
physically disgusting Ibotsson is, which is terribly unfair

350
00:16:23.820 --> 00:16:25.379
because I think he's rather sweet.

351
00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:26.340
Yeah, yeah.

352
00:16:26.340 --> 00:16:31.019
He asks the headmaster whether he's thrashed Turlow.

353
00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:32.879
You know, like he's awful.

354
00:16:32.940 --> 00:16:37.440
See, I think the implication is because he's forgotten the doctor

355
00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:39.480
you know, he remembers his army service.

356
00:16:39.539 --> 00:16:41.279
He remembers unit, but he's forgotten the doctor.

357
00:16:41.340 --> 00:16:45.419
The doctor made him a better person because the doctor made him a

358
00:16:45.419 --> 00:16:46.679
more open minded person.

359
00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:49.139
In fact, in fact, the brigadier was...

360
00:16:49.200 --> 00:16:53.159
I mean, Colonel Lethbridge Stewart was unpleasant and sometimes a

361
00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:54.539
panicky idiot, wasn't he?

362
00:16:54.600 --> 00:16:55.740
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

363
00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:59.940
And, you know, then from the invasion in season seven, he's still

364
00:16:59.940 --> 00:17:05.160
quite stolid and then season 890 loosens up a bit and by Planet of

365
00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:06.779
the Spiders, he's making jokes about ASP.

366
00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:07.859
Yeah, he's a swinger.

367
00:17:07.980 --> 00:17:10.079
It's not always super effective.

368
00:17:10.140 --> 00:17:15.059
Like, you know, we get bloody kernel blimp in the 3 doctors, but I

369
00:17:15.059 --> 00:17:16.920
think that's a subtle script point which works.

370
00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:20.880
And to be honest, I think it may have come from Nicholas Courtney

371
00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:23.339
because of course he thought a great deal about the brigadier

372
00:17:23.339 --> 00:17:25.619
character, because they kept asking him back.

373
00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:27.539
And I think Nicholas Courtney would have gone, well, hold on.

374
00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:29.579
If the brig doesn't remember the doctor, he's going to be exactly

375
00:17:29.579 --> 00:17:30.839
like he was 20 years ago.

376
00:17:31.380 --> 00:17:34.319
That's a really good point. really thought about that.

377
00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:36.599
Like as I was watching this and it's going, oh, he's a bit too

378
00:17:36.599 --> 00:17:38.940
harsh and I don't like it and that sort of thing.

379
00:17:38.940 --> 00:17:42.180
And the fact that, you know, he has this memory block.

380
00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:46.500
I think, look, I think you both made a really good point there.

381
00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:49.619
But I just don't think it's maybe it's a bit too subtle for me.

382
00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:50.220
I don't know.

383
00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:56.039
The problem I have with all of this is the fact that Obviously

384
00:17:56.039 --> 00:17:59.400
we've discussed the whole timeline continuity thing previously, and

385
00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:03.000
I'm fine with the fact that it's 77 and 83.

386
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:04.079
I don't have a problem with that.

387
00:18:04.140 --> 00:18:09.119
But it's 6 years of not talking to anybody related to unit.

388
00:18:09.180 --> 00:18:11.579
I've tried to justify that in mind.

389
00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:14.940
I thought maybe the Black Guardian is interfering there, but then

390
00:18:14.940 --> 00:18:17.099
he wants to keep the 2 brigadiers apart later on.

391
00:18:17.160 --> 00:18:21.720
So maybe it's the White Guardians, you know, I don't buy it.

392
00:18:21.779 --> 00:18:24.720
Do either of you have a thought on that, Brendan?

393
00:18:24.779 --> 00:18:29.099
It is strange because he talks about what Harry and Benton are up

394
00:18:29.099 --> 00:18:29.400
to.

395
00:18:29.460 --> 00:18:32.160
So clearly he's had some kind of contact with them.

396
00:18:32.220 --> 00:18:35.339
I think he said he, you know, he hasn't known from Benton since

397
00:18:35.339 --> 00:18:38.039
1979, but that's still after the initial shock.

398
00:18:38.099 --> 00:18:42.599
Maybe it is literally he has to see the doctor because even when

399
00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:43.859
he sees the doctor at first.

400
00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:48.900
There's nothing until the doctor really starts putting in a

401
00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:49.559
assault on.

402
00:18:49.619 --> 00:18:52.319
Like, oh, you know, what about my companions?

403
00:18:52.380 --> 00:18:53.339
What about such and such?

404
00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:54.180
What about the yeti?

405
00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:55.079
What about blah, blah, blah?

406
00:18:55.140 --> 00:19:01.740
So you could almost accept that Harry and Benton don't call the

407
00:19:01.740 --> 00:19:06.900
brigadier and say, hey, remember those Zygons, but it is, it is a

408
00:19:06.900 --> 00:19:07.859
bit of a strange emphasis.

409
00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:09.660
But they're not going to do that, you know?

410
00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:12.480
They would be talking. it would be much more casual.

411
00:19:12.539 --> 00:19:14.460
Like, have you seen the doctor or something like that?

412
00:19:14.519 --> 00:19:15.960
Like, you know, I just...

413
00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:17.819
Yeah, he can't even remember the doctor or the Tartars.

414
00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:20.759
It just does not sit well with me.

415
00:19:20.819 --> 00:19:24.660
It doesn't stop my enjoyment and story, but it's just a niggling

416
00:19:24.660 --> 00:19:26.880
thing that just annoys me.

417
00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:31.440
It's like, it's like when you have old school friends or uni

418
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:34.380
friends and then you see them every 6 months and then it becomes

419
00:19:34.380 --> 00:19:35.279
every 12 months.

420
00:19:35.339 --> 00:19:38.640
And then it's, I haven't called them, should I call them or not

421
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:39.900
sort of scenarios?

422
00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:42.240
So it sort of just gets further and further away.

423
00:19:42.359 --> 00:19:45.839
It had never actually occurred to me to wonder, do you know what I

424
00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:46.019
mean?

425
00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:50.519
And I guess because there's kind of a lack of realism about the

426
00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:54.180
whole situation anyway, that that sort of inconsistency didn't

427
00:19:54.180 --> 00:19:55.859
really present itself to me.

428
00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:59.700
So I wasn't wondering, you know, is he still socialising with

429
00:19:59.700 --> 00:20:02.160
these people or whatever, how does that work?

430
00:20:02.220 --> 00:20:03.720
But I get your point.

431
00:20:03.779 --> 00:20:06.599
It does seem strange once you kind of push against it.

432
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:11.039
What do you think of the montage where Pete wanders around

433
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:15.180
reminding him of his past adventures and then we cut to the stuff

434
00:20:15.180 --> 00:20:16.259
in black and white.

435
00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:18.240
For a fan?

436
00:20:18.299 --> 00:20:20.099
That's fantastic.

437
00:20:20.099 --> 00:20:24.660
They name check everything that you'd want them to check like all

438
00:20:24.660 --> 00:20:25.559
these old companions.

439
00:20:25.619 --> 00:20:28.140
I was literally doing a ticket box list because I thought, oh

440
00:20:28.140 --> 00:20:30.960
they're going to forget Liz or, you know, but they don't.

441
00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:34.680
And so for me, that's a spidey, spidey sense tingling thing

442
00:20:34.680 --> 00:20:34.980
again.

443
00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:36.359
And the clips are great.

444
00:20:36.420 --> 00:20:40.920
There's one thing I don't like, and that's the mini strokes he has

445
00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:44.700
as he's sitting in the chair just before he says doctor.

446
00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:46.140
I just think that's so.

447
00:20:46.140 --> 00:20:48.779
I don't think he plays distressed very well.

448
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:52.680
I mean, he's never really been distressed as the brigadier since

449
00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:53.640
Web of Fear.

450
00:20:53.700 --> 00:20:57.299
He was always, you know, defined by being sort of stolid and

451
00:20:57.299 --> 00:20:58.440
unflappable and stuff.

452
00:20:58.500 --> 00:21:02.039
So to see, like, I don't think Nick really nails the acting there

453
00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:03.420
either.

454
00:21:03.900 --> 00:21:06.000
But I think if you had a better director might be able to get

455
00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:06.420
more.

456
00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:11.160
But I like those flashbacks and I was surprised because, you know

457
00:21:11.160 --> 00:21:14.700
the cybermen flashbacks where they just got out there, BBC

458
00:21:14.700 --> 00:21:17.400
videotapes and showed the greatest cyber hits.

459
00:21:17.460 --> 00:21:19.019
You know, that was stupid.

460
00:21:19.079 --> 00:21:23.160
This at least kind of works in context.

461
00:21:23.220 --> 00:21:26.099
And at this point, you're not aware that he's going to do it again

462
00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:32.099
next year for like our annual crappy flashback clip collection.

463
00:21:32.220 --> 00:21:36.420
But I like the music a lot and I think, you know, he kind of

464
00:21:36.420 --> 00:21:37.380
deserves it a bit.

465
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:39.119
It's a 20th anniversary.

466
00:21:39.180 --> 00:21:40.680
Yeah, and I think that's great.

467
00:21:40.740 --> 00:21:44.940
Originally this script, they considered having in Chesterton, is

468
00:21:44.940 --> 00:21:45.240
that correct?

469
00:21:45.299 --> 00:21:48.420
Yeah, it was written for Ian and William Russell was unavailable

470
00:21:48.420 --> 00:21:49.559
doing theatre, I think.

471
00:21:49.619 --> 00:21:54.240
They then approached Ian Marta to reprise Harry and then and in

472
00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:55.380
Marta wasn't available.

473
00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:57.720
And then they went, well, hold on, if we're going back to the unit

474
00:21:57.720 --> 00:21:58.740
days, let's ask Nick.

475
00:21:58.859 --> 00:22:02.819
But the fact that he's the 3rd choice concerns me.

476
00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:06.720
It concerns me in this fact, and this is back to sort of the arc

477
00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:09.720
infinity thing we were talking about a few weeks ago, is that if

478
00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:14.640
you hadn't appeared here, in the 5 doctors, his relationship with

479
00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:17.519
Tegan and the doctor is a lovely, lovely moment.

480
00:22:17.579 --> 00:22:21.779
And if you look at Sarah's relationship with the 5th doctor, it's

481
00:22:21.779 --> 00:22:22.859
just like, well, who's this?

482
00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:23.700
There's nothing.

483
00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:27.900
Whereas the fact that he's in here, adds to that later on.

484
00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:30.299
It's one of these things that I was talking back in season 18

485
00:22:30.299 --> 00:22:34.319
about these happy accidents that John Nathan Turner has in terms

486
00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:39.000
of scripting where it works out in the end and it's going to start

487
00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:42.960
not working out in the end in 18 months time with various

488
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:43.920
decisions that are made.

489
00:22:43.980 --> 00:22:45.299
But it's a fluke.

490
00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:46.500
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

491
00:22:46.740 --> 00:22:52.140
A particularly lovely moment for me in that scene is the matchup

492
00:22:52.140 --> 00:22:55.920
they do of the brig looking around the 3 doctors console room and

493
00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:58.259
then you fade back to him in the chair and it's the same

494
00:22:58.259 --> 00:22:58.799
expression.

495
00:22:58.859 --> 00:22:59.640
It's the same position.

496
00:22:59.700 --> 00:23:02.519
You know, well done, Peter Moffatt there and the vision mixer

497
00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:03.119
forgetting that right.

498
00:23:03.180 --> 00:23:06.359
But 10 years later, you see him 10 years old.

499
00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:07.079
Yeah.

500
00:23:07.140 --> 00:23:07.440
Yeah, yeah.

501
00:23:07.500 --> 00:23:11.400
That is when to me, his character comes back and he's not this

502
00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:14.519
blustery, you know, did you give him a thrashing?

503
00:23:14.579 --> 00:23:17.400
Like his face just relaxes in his turn, says, oh, talk to you, I've

504
00:23:17.400 --> 00:23:17.880
done it again.

505
00:23:17.940 --> 00:23:21.720
And to be honest, I don't even think that reaction would have

506
00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:23.279
worked with William Russell.

507
00:23:23.339 --> 00:23:26.279
You have to have someone who has always been that unflappable.

508
00:23:26.339 --> 00:23:28.980
It might have worked with Ian Marta because like Ian Marta's

509
00:23:28.980 --> 00:23:32.220
reaction to Kelman being exploded and crushed by rocks is, oh, I'm

510
00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:32.700
terrible with names.

511
00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:33.000
Sorry.

512
00:23:34.019 --> 00:23:36.480
You know, that's the thing.

513
00:23:36.539 --> 00:23:40.859
It works with Nick because Nick's whole character is just, oh

514
00:23:40.859 --> 00:23:43.380
that's a giant blanc mange with a ray gun.

515
00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:45.480
Oh, I should shoot that with a rifle, I think.

516
00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:48.960
I think he does a great performance as both brigadiers.

517
00:23:49.019 --> 00:23:49.619
Yeah, yeah.

518
00:23:49.619 --> 00:23:52.380
And they make him look very convincing as the younger one.

519
00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:52.920
Yeah.

520
00:23:52.980 --> 00:23:55.680
In fact, he's actually maybe looking a bit too much younger.

521
00:23:55.740 --> 00:23:56.759
Do you know what I mean?

522
00:23:56.819 --> 00:23:58.740
They really go all out on the hair dye, I think.

523
00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:03.539
I also think the decision to have him not have his moustache is a

524
00:24:03.539 --> 00:24:04.019
great one.

525
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:04.799
That's great.

526
00:24:04.859 --> 00:24:07.140
It does age him very differently.

527
00:24:07.140 --> 00:24:08.700
It's a great contrast.

528
00:24:08.759 --> 00:24:11.940
And look, besides that one moment, sitting in the chair that I

529
00:24:11.940 --> 00:24:12.420
don't like.

530
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:14.640
I think Nick does a great performance in this, and it's really

531
00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:16.440
lovely to have him back in the show for this story.

532
00:24:16.500 --> 00:24:21.059
Do you think if they'd had Ian Chesterton back, right, and he was

533
00:24:21.059 --> 00:24:24.359
teaching at this school, would we have had to have some just

534
00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:29.519
horrific, horrific line explaining why he wasn't married to

535
00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:32.759
Barbara anymore that would have upset me enormously?

536
00:24:32.819 --> 00:24:34.079
You know what?

537
00:24:34.140 --> 00:24:37.500
I would hope that they would just do a line of, oh, you know, she's

538
00:24:37.500 --> 00:24:38.160
visiting her mother.

539
00:24:38.220 --> 00:24:38.940
Yeah.

540
00:24:38.940 --> 00:24:40.859
She's visiting about. not going to believe you're here.

541
00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:45.839
As opposed to making Sergeant Benton a used car salesman, which I

542
00:24:45.839 --> 00:24:48.720
never felt that was where the character would go.

543
00:24:48.779 --> 00:24:49.500
Yeah, yeah.

544
00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:50.579
And it was a very nice moment.

545
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:53.339
Oh, you know, Harry's doing something top secret at Port and Downs

546
00:24:53.339 --> 00:24:56.339
which Ian Marty then took as a cue to write a whole novel about in

547
00:24:56.339 --> 00:24:57.660
Harry Sullivan's war.

548
00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:01.740
Is that the one where he develops an anti-Zygon poison?

549
00:25:01.799 --> 00:25:02.759
Yeah, I think.

550
00:25:02.759 --> 00:25:04.980
Oh, well, yeah, that happened in the new series.

551
00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:06.900
Oh, of course that's in the Zion Invasion.

552
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:09.839
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. been developed by Harry. which, you know

553
00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:11.339
seems a bit odd, but...

554
00:25:11.339 --> 00:25:13.380
He would never develop anything genocidal.

555
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:14.519
He's a sweetie.

556
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:18.539
Something I've heard said about this story, and I can't quote who

557
00:25:18.539 --> 00:25:20.700
it was because I think it was on a forum somewhere.

558
00:25:20.759 --> 00:25:23.819
So if this is your idea and you're listening, thank you very

559
00:25:23.819 --> 00:25:24.180
much.

560
00:25:24.180 --> 00:25:28.079
The whole thing with, you know, the brigadier, now being a teacher

561
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:32.460
and having had his breakdown and benton offselling used cars, it's

562
00:25:32.460 --> 00:25:37.259
like there's a pattern in this season of the end of dreams.

563
00:25:37.500 --> 00:25:42.539
Omega fails to come back and the Mara, who's a dream creature is

564
00:25:42.539 --> 00:25:46.440
killed and the brigadier, who, you know, was reliable and

565
00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:49.380
unflappable, has had this mental shock.

566
00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:52.079
And it's kind of like, you know what?

567
00:25:52.140 --> 00:25:54.539
Yeah, that's really interesting dramatically.

568
00:25:54.539 --> 00:25:58.740
Is that the theme you want running through your celebratory 20th

569
00:25:58.740 --> 00:26:00.420
year is the question.

570
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:02.759
I don't think they thought that much about it.

571
00:26:02.819 --> 00:26:05.579
I think it's just an accident of the story writing.

572
00:26:05.640 --> 00:26:07.619
I don't think anybody sat down and said this is what we're going

573
00:26:07.619 --> 00:26:08.039
to do at all.

574
00:26:08.099 --> 00:26:12.180
The theme of the celebratory year is how important it is to the

575
00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:16.019
quality of a television program to have an imaginative, competent

576
00:26:16.019 --> 00:26:16.920
script editor.

577
00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:20.160
More on that later kids.

578
00:26:20.220 --> 00:26:22.859
Yeah, yeah, they were still they were still assembling the

579
00:26:22.859 --> 00:26:24.119
committee to write that report.

580
00:26:24.180 --> 00:26:27.420
Okay, so we're in this school and we get to see the headmaster and

581
00:26:27.420 --> 00:26:29.819
the matron and hippo.

582
00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:34.500
The headmaster is, of course, the original Barusa from the Deadly

583
00:26:34.500 --> 00:26:34.980
Assassin.

584
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:35.759
No.

585
00:26:35.819 --> 00:26:37.319
Yes, it's John Arthur.

586
00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:38.099
Oh my goodness.

587
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:41.579
And the matron is the voice of the quarks.

588
00:26:42.059 --> 00:26:43.920
Sheila Gill.

589
00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:45.299
She's shockingly bad.

590
00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:47.279
I'm like, watch you to get back into a band.

591
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:53.460
But the headmaster, like, you know, that conversation with Turlo

592
00:26:53.460 --> 00:26:56.220
when he's in the bed, like, and it's really the black guard.

593
00:26:56.279 --> 00:26:57.240
And I love that conversation.

594
00:26:57.539 --> 00:27:01.019
I just like the way it sort of turns, you think, why is Turner

595
00:27:01.019 --> 00:27:04.619
having a conversation about this with the head, oh?

596
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:05.640
Hey, yeah, yeah.

597
00:27:05.700 --> 00:27:07.680
That's a really good use of the Black Guardian.

598
00:27:07.740 --> 00:27:09.779
It tells you the Black Guardian can be anyone.

599
00:27:10.019 --> 00:27:14.220
I think Turlo is instantly pretty good as well.

600
00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:17.880
We've talked a little bit about his look, but his performance is

601
00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:21.420
really great and he's not afraid of kind of going over the top as

602
00:27:21.420 --> 00:27:24.180
well, as we'll see, you know, next year, obviously.

603
00:27:24.240 --> 00:27:27.480
But even here when he's sort of selling the sort of distress, the

604
00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:31.259
not wanting to be under the Black Guardians thrall, you know, his

605
00:27:31.259 --> 00:27:33.119
frustration and stuff and fear.

606
00:27:33.180 --> 00:27:35.099
He does a really great job.

607
00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:38.460
But he also does a great job when he's 1st introduced as being

608
00:27:38.460 --> 00:27:44.759
that sort of languid, arrogant, posh, dismissive, duplicitous, sort

609
00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:49.200
of that scene where he tells hippo that he took the fall.

610
00:27:51.539 --> 00:27:52.200
He's wonderful.

611
00:27:52.259 --> 00:27:53.460
He's so horrible.

612
00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:58.500
And so it's kind of nice to have someone who is unscrupulous and

613
00:27:58.500 --> 00:27:59.400
selfish.

614
00:27:59.460 --> 00:28:00.839
And yet likeable.

615
00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:03.480
Yeah, you know, you like him.

616
00:28:03.539 --> 00:28:07.319
And for me anyway, they're trying to repair the damage of season

617
00:28:07.319 --> 00:28:12.720
19 of having 3 characters who, through no fault of the actors, were

618
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:16.559
just kind of played as a bit wet, you know, and even when they had

619
00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:17.880
disagreements.

620
00:28:17.940 --> 00:28:19.619
It's like, oh, no, you're only a girl.

621
00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:21.180
Oh, am I only a girl?

622
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:23.339
Well, I can do science things.

623
00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:24.660
Yeah, well, I can do so.

624
00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:26.640
It's like, oh, who the hell cares?

625
00:28:26.700 --> 00:28:31.380
Whereas here, you know, you don't get Tegan saying to Turlo, I

626
00:28:31.380 --> 00:28:32.039
don't believe you.

627
00:28:32.099 --> 00:28:33.480
You get it in acting.

628
00:28:33.539 --> 00:28:36.900
You know, she's standing off to the side and just she's got her

629
00:28:36.900 --> 00:28:39.480
arms folded and she's looking down her nose and that's an

630
00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:41.279
achievement when you're doing it to someone taller than you.

631
00:28:41.339 --> 00:28:41.880
She's not happy.

632
00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:43.440
It's interesting.

633
00:28:43.500 --> 00:28:45.119
Both girls are highly suspicious of him.

634
00:28:45.180 --> 00:28:47.279
But particularly, Tegan.

635
00:28:47.339 --> 00:28:50.099
But she's also hardly suspicious of chameleon. something that you

636
00:28:50.099 --> 00:28:51.359
don't know about that's coming up.

637
00:28:51.420 --> 00:28:54.359
It's essentially anybody new into the Tartars don't come into my

638
00:28:54.359 --> 00:28:54.839
time.

639
00:28:54.900 --> 00:28:56.039
This is mine.

640
00:28:56.460 --> 00:28:59.519
But he is great throughout this.

641
00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:02.880
And he sells the conflict between, you know, he wants to get off

642
00:29:02.880 --> 00:29:03.660
this planet.

643
00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:07.920
He made this deal with having to kill the doctor with not wanting

644
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:08.759
to kill the doctor.

645
00:29:08.819 --> 00:29:09.539
What's he going to do?

646
00:29:09.599 --> 00:29:12.240
And I just think Mark is great throughout this entire story.

647
00:29:13.380 --> 00:29:16.859
When people sum up Turlow, they kind of talk about, you know, he's

648
00:29:16.859 --> 00:29:19.980
a coward, and yeah, he's always running away from danger, but he's

649
00:29:19.980 --> 00:29:22.920
not a coward in the same way, say Villa is from Blake 7.

650
00:29:22.980 --> 00:29:23.579
Yeah.

651
00:29:23.579 --> 00:29:29.099
He is he's a practical coward in that, you know, as we'll later

652
00:29:29.099 --> 00:29:34.140
find out he has a good reason to be running away from violence.

653
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:36.420
But he will always articulate.

654
00:29:36.539 --> 00:29:38.519
This is why I'm running away.

655
00:29:38.579 --> 00:29:41.940
I'm running away because this is a dangerous situation and when he

656
00:29:41.940 --> 00:29:44.160
wants to break his agreement with the Black Guardian, he's saying

657
00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:45.839
but this guy isn't evil.

658
00:29:45.900 --> 00:29:46.559
Yeah.

659
00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:50.039
He already has moral qualms about it in that discussion with the

660
00:29:50.039 --> 00:29:54.420
headmaster, but his main thing is the doctor is not evil, you

661
00:29:54.420 --> 00:29:54.599
know.

662
00:29:54.660 --> 00:29:56.880
And so he's got this pragmatism to him.

663
00:29:56.940 --> 00:30:02.759
Which is, It's a refreshing depth to the character.

664
00:30:02.819 --> 00:30:05.339
And I would argue we haven't had this kind of depth to a character

665
00:30:05.339 --> 00:30:09.059
since Louise Jameson as Leila.

666
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:13.079
Yeah, and what will happen is what always happens to these high

667
00:30:13.079 --> 00:30:16.799
concept characters that all just becomes a lot less important as

668
00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:17.400
time goes on.

669
00:30:17.460 --> 00:30:20.400
You know, he is very well drawn.

670
00:30:20.460 --> 00:30:24.660
And the fun thing is that even though he's established as a thief

671
00:30:24.660 --> 00:30:30.299
and a manipulator and all of those sorts of things, he still has

672
00:30:30.299 --> 00:30:33.660
those moral qualms that he mentioned, he still recognises the

673
00:30:33.660 --> 00:30:34.440
doctor's a good man.

674
00:30:34.980 --> 00:30:40.079
When he raises that rock, to bash the doctor.

675
00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:41.460
Yeah, that's a bit crummy.

676
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:43.680
Isn't that a cliffhanger?

677
00:30:43.740 --> 00:30:45.779
Yeah, it's a cliffhanger, so what?

678
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:47.279
And I like it.

679
00:30:47.339 --> 00:30:48.599
Yeah, me too, right?

680
00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:50.279
And the thing explodes.

681
00:30:50.339 --> 00:30:52.740
Fortunately someone doesn't come in and say, no, stop.

682
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:55.440
Well, the machine says no.

683
00:30:55.500 --> 00:31:00.359
He's thrown over backwards, but yeah, Jeopardy with the doctor is

684
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:02.579
never that convincing, but, you know, here you actually believe

685
00:31:02.579 --> 00:31:06.359
the doctor could be, at least I'm not going to say he's killed, but

686
00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:08.640
you know, given a blow to the head at the very least, but of

687
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:09.660
course...

688
00:31:09.660 --> 00:31:12.539
I just think that's like, he would have made such a mess of his

689
00:31:12.539 --> 00:31:13.559
uniform and stuff.

690
00:31:13.619 --> 00:31:16.019
I guess he would have been transported off the planet if he'd

691
00:31:16.019 --> 00:31:17.339
managed to do it successfully.

692
00:31:17.339 --> 00:31:19.380
Reminds me of that line from Mum.

693
00:31:19.500 --> 00:31:23.460
Oh, I think it might be time to the doctor where Clara says, I

694
00:31:23.460 --> 00:31:25.079
will slap you so hard you regenerate.

695
00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:31.799
Now, of course, the tarnest you get to investigate the Mary

696
00:31:31.799 --> 00:31:33.180
Celeste.

697
00:31:33.180 --> 00:31:34.200
In space?

698
00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:37.019
In space for a bit during this episode.

699
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:38.759
Don't they find the capsule quite quickly as well?

700
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:41.039
Don't transmit or is that in episode two?

701
00:31:41.099 --> 00:31:42.480
I'm getting a bit confused.

702
00:31:42.539 --> 00:31:46.980
But they go up there and I need to mention that guitar riff that

703
00:31:46.980 --> 00:31:48.180
the, is it Peter?

704
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:48.900
Who's doing the music?

705
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:50.039
It's Patty, it's Patty.

706
00:31:50.039 --> 00:31:50.819
The guitar?

707
00:31:50.819 --> 00:31:53.220
when the ship's coming towards the Tartars?

708
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:54.359
Down in.

709
00:31:54.660 --> 00:31:56.880
It's great, isn't it?

710
00:31:56.940 --> 00:31:58.920
It's a really, really good score.

711
00:31:58.980 --> 00:32:01.619
It's a bit repetitive, I have to say, but it has a really clear

712
00:32:01.619 --> 00:32:05.519
theme for the temptation of Turlow, which I think works really

713
00:32:05.519 --> 00:32:05.819
well.

714
00:32:05.819 --> 00:32:08.759
And the music is really terrifically good.

715
00:32:08.819 --> 00:32:12.180
Oh, I'm glad it's Patty Kings and I love Patty King.

716
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:14.759
They find the transmit capsule.

717
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:17.039
And it's very big on the inside.

718
00:32:17.099 --> 00:32:18.960
It's bigger than what the capsule.

719
00:32:19.019 --> 00:32:21.000
Oh, it's dimensionally transcendental.

720
00:32:21.059 --> 00:32:24.299
You know, I explained that to you with those 2 boxes that one time

721
00:32:24.299 --> 00:32:26.519
Todd. got that explanation.

722
00:32:26.579 --> 00:32:28.319
No explanation, I understand.

723
00:32:28.859 --> 00:32:32.819
Yeah, well, you know, they stole tech from the Time Lord, so why

724
00:32:32.819 --> 00:32:34.680
not dimensional transcendentalism?

725
00:32:34.740 --> 00:32:37.140
I love the inside of the capsule.

726
00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:40.559
I think it's my favourite set, even better than the ship set with

727
00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:42.599
all those diamonds and what have you.

728
00:32:42.660 --> 00:32:46.140
That whole design, I just think, is really, really terrific.

729
00:32:46.200 --> 00:32:50.160
But I think this is a little bit where the story falls apart or

730
00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:54.000
doesn't fall apart as such, but it's different from what Doctor

731
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:55.380
Who normally does.

732
00:32:55.680 --> 00:32:58.319
This story has a bunch of things to do.

733
00:32:58.380 --> 00:33:00.059
It's got to introduce the new companion.

734
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:02.039
It's got to bring back the brigadier.

735
00:33:02.099 --> 00:33:06.359
Maybe unintentionally, it's laying the groundwork for the 5

736
00:33:06.359 --> 00:33:10.259
doctors, and it wants to do a sort of time thing.

737
00:33:10.319 --> 00:33:13.619
But there's not a lot of forward momentum.

738
00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:15.960
You know, things just happen.

739
00:33:16.019 --> 00:33:19.559
And episode 3 in particular, very much is just a whole bunch of

740
00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:23.220
different people wandering around in different groups around those

741
00:33:23.220 --> 00:33:24.539
corridors.

742
00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:28.380
It is looser and less plotty.

743
00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:30.960
But the one big exception is episode two.

744
00:33:31.019 --> 00:33:34.259
And I just think what they do in episode 2 is something that

745
00:33:34.259 --> 00:33:38.039
you'll be astonished to learn Doctor Who has never done this

746
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:41.819
before, even though it will go on to do it later.

747
00:33:41.940 --> 00:33:45.480
And that's the 7783 thing.

748
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:49.859
That is an extraordinary sequence, and I just adore the whole

749
00:33:49.859 --> 00:33:54.180
thing, as one is going on in one time, it's it's going on in the

750
00:33:54.180 --> 00:33:57.720
other time, and the intercutting between it and the scripting of

751
00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:02.220
that, you know, Peter Grimwade is really making up for the losses

752
00:34:02.220 --> 00:34:04.859
of several weeks ago in that entire sequence.

753
00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:08.340
I think it's lovely that the Tegan and the brigadier sort of had

754
00:34:08.340 --> 00:34:08.699
that moment.

755
00:34:08.820 --> 00:34:11.280
Yeah, yeah, in fact, they have a great dynamic.

756
00:34:11.340 --> 00:34:12.420
They love them together.

757
00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:16.860
But the moment that 83 brigadier reveals that he knew someone

758
00:34:16.860 --> 00:34:22.019
called Tegan once is so great, and I think we get that before we

759
00:34:22.019 --> 00:34:23.880
get to see them meet.

760
00:34:23.940 --> 00:34:24.599
Is that right?

761
00:34:24.659 --> 00:34:26.280
Before we get.

762
00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:26.940
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

763
00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:27.900
Yeah, it's just before.

764
00:34:27.960 --> 00:34:31.260
So what happens is the doctor mentioned, oh, you know, I travel

765
00:34:31.260 --> 00:34:32.159
with Tegan in this.

766
00:34:32.219 --> 00:34:33.420
Oh, I knew what Tegan was.

767
00:34:33.480 --> 00:34:36.360
Oh, no, different Tegan. you know, this is a different time zone

768
00:34:36.360 --> 00:34:37.559
you know, yeah.

769
00:34:37.619 --> 00:34:38.940
Australian girl.

770
00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:39.780
Strong accent.

771
00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:41.099
Then the doctor's like, what?

772
00:34:41.159 --> 00:34:44.760
And then I think the very next scene is when Tegan runs up to the

773
00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:46.079
cottage and says, excuse me.

774
00:34:46.139 --> 00:34:50.099
And like those things are not flashbacks because they are

775
00:34:50.099 --> 00:34:54.420
happening at the same time, even though one's in 77 and one's in

776
00:34:54.420 --> 00:34:54.780
83.

777
00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:57.239
They're at the same point in the story, so they're not

778
00:34:57.239 --> 00:34:57.900
flashbacks.

779
00:34:58.019 --> 00:35:02.219
But on another level, they tell us what the brigadier is telling

780
00:35:02.219 --> 00:35:03.480
the doctor.

781
00:35:03.539 --> 00:35:08.579
So when we can't back from a scene in 1977 back to 83, the doctor

782
00:35:08.579 --> 00:35:11.820
has just learned the information that we learned by watching that

783
00:35:11.820 --> 00:35:12.840
scene in 77.

784
00:35:13.079 --> 00:35:14.400
Yeah, so well done.

785
00:35:14.460 --> 00:35:16.199
Yeah, it is incredibly well done.

786
00:35:16.260 --> 00:35:20.460
And I love that it's Tegan who figures out they're in the wrong

787
00:35:20.460 --> 00:35:21.000
time zone.

788
00:35:21.059 --> 00:35:24.480
It's not a matter of seeing a newspaper or something like that.

789
00:35:24.539 --> 00:35:26.880
It's a matter of someone talking about the silver jubilee and she

790
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:28.559
remembers that was 1977.

791
00:35:28.739 --> 00:35:33.539
For me, it's one of these, again, it points to the fact that in a

792
00:35:33.539 --> 00:35:34.559
Peter Davidson story.

793
00:35:34.619 --> 00:35:36.239
You have an episode that I really adore.

794
00:35:36.300 --> 00:35:39.960
And then I have an episode that follows it that I don't really

795
00:35:39.960 --> 00:35:40.619
like as much.

796
00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:41.340
Yeah.

797
00:35:41.340 --> 00:35:46.800
I think it's just crazy that Tegan and Nissa find this person in

798
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:51.179
their underwear in the capsule and they drag him back to the

799
00:35:51.179 --> 00:35:53.039
Tatars and Tegan just assumes that it's the doctor.

800
00:35:53.099 --> 00:35:55.800
Like Niss is about to go, uh, uh, is she blind?

801
00:35:55.860 --> 00:35:56.699
Does she need glasses?

802
00:35:56.820 --> 00:35:58.199
Like, how can this be the doctor?

803
00:35:58.260 --> 00:36:01.079
They do mention that they think he could have regenerated?

804
00:36:01.139 --> 00:36:02.039
I know.

805
00:36:02.099 --> 00:36:04.079
Yeah, I think it's a very interesting concept.

806
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:07.139
And I also love that I'm pretty sure it's the 2nd last scene in

807
00:36:07.139 --> 00:36:10.559
episode 2 where the doctor and the brigadier go, but if I'm not in

808
00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:13.679
that capsule, who did they drag into the TARDIS?

809
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:17.400
And then you come back and you've got David Collings as Morden and

810
00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:19.199
he turns around and his head's open.

811
00:36:19.260 --> 00:36:22.260
We get another NISA scream, which is an excellent scream.

812
00:36:22.380 --> 00:36:23.940
And the spaghetti moves.

813
00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:26.280
Yeah, it's pulsing.

814
00:36:26.340 --> 00:36:29.340
I think it's a little bit too horrific, actually.

815
00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:33.000
Uh, you know, like I think it's maybe a bit too much.

816
00:36:33.059 --> 00:36:34.500
Do you think so?

817
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:38.460
The spaghetti heads freaked me out like as a kid and I love the

818
00:36:38.460 --> 00:36:40.260
fact they put him in the Tom coat.

819
00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:42.900
And of course, for the point of the story, Tegan has to make that

820
00:36:42.900 --> 00:36:45.300
assumption that it's the doctor and that sort of thing for all

821
00:36:45.300 --> 00:36:45.659
that to work.

822
00:36:45.659 --> 00:36:46.559
And I think that's really good.

823
00:36:46.619 --> 00:36:50.760
But he turns around and it's David Collings and I just go, oh

824
00:36:50.760 --> 00:36:51.599
yeah.

825
00:36:51.659 --> 00:36:52.800
I remember you don't like him.

826
00:36:52.860 --> 00:36:53.940
I don't like him.

827
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:55.679
I hated him in robots of death.

828
00:36:55.739 --> 00:36:58.139
And it's like, he does a good job.

829
00:36:58.199 --> 00:36:59.940
I'm not saying he doesn't.

830
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:03.059
I'm not saying he's not, but I just...

831
00:37:03.059 --> 00:37:04.019
You've got that emotional.

832
00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:07.500
I've got that emotion reaction to it And so when Moden drags

833
00:37:07.500 --> 00:37:11.340
himself around the ship and talks to his brothers and nobody

834
00:37:11.340 --> 00:37:15.119
listens and he's got to drag himself, it's a black mark for me.

835
00:37:15.179 --> 00:37:19.079
And it is badding in a way because it's like, why don't they come

836
00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:19.920
out and help him?

837
00:37:19.980 --> 00:37:21.179
He's done his job.

838
00:37:21.239 --> 00:37:22.619
He's brought back help?

839
00:37:22.679 --> 00:37:25.500
And they're just sitting in their little room until Turlow presses

840
00:37:25.500 --> 00:37:26.039
a...

841
00:37:26.099 --> 00:37:26.639
I don't know.

842
00:37:26.699 --> 00:37:29.460
It does give me the irrits because like this would have happened

843
00:37:29.460 --> 00:37:31.860
before. like the fact that he's back on the ship at any other

844
00:37:31.860 --> 00:37:32.159
time.

845
00:37:32.219 --> 00:37:34.980
You know, maybe there's something that says when he gets back into

846
00:37:34.980 --> 00:37:38.400
the regeneration room, that sends them the signal, but I just sit

847
00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:39.239
there going, oh, really?

848
00:37:39.300 --> 00:37:39.840
Like, you know?

849
00:37:39.900 --> 00:37:42.480
You know, if that were the case, why didn't he just go straight

850
00:37:42.480 --> 00:37:42.780
there?

851
00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:47.280
As much as I dislike David Collins as an actor, I really like his

852
00:37:47.280 --> 00:37:51.059
pleading with the Nyssa and Tegan in the brigadier that he is

853
00:37:51.059 --> 00:37:53.460
actually the doctor and for their help and that sort of thing.

854
00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:54.659
Do you like that or not?

855
00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:58.019
I do think that that is a weird element, that thing where everyone

856
00:37:58.019 --> 00:38:00.900
just automatically assumes that Morden's the dot.

857
00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:06.000
And no one asks him a question, like what's the Pharos Project or

858
00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:08.699
who's your best friend on Lagopolis or anything.

859
00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:12.239
They do try to do that and he kind of deflects them with, you know

860
00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:13.380
I mean, a lot of pain.

861
00:38:13.500 --> 00:38:17.039
Yeah, it's kind of like Tegan and this are both completely believe

862
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:17.940
it from the off.

863
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:20.219
Nissa keeps believing it.

864
00:38:20.280 --> 00:38:23.340
Tegan becomes sceptical and the brig is kind of in the middle

865
00:38:23.340 --> 00:38:26.760
going, well, look, maybe he isn't, but can we take that risk?

866
00:38:26.820 --> 00:38:30.960
In fact, one of Tegan's best moments in this whole story is when

867
00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:35.400
she refuses to open the door to let Morden out into the ship and

868
00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:41.400
she might have overplayed it in previous stories or earlier on in

869
00:38:41.400 --> 00:38:41.880
her run.

870
00:38:41.940 --> 00:38:44.639
But she doesn't do that at all here.

871
00:38:44.699 --> 00:38:49.139
She's just very resolute and very steadfast without being sort of

872
00:38:49.139 --> 00:38:50.519
particularly obnoxious.

873
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:54.119
I also like how she calls the brigadier a chauvinist, which I just

874
00:38:54.119 --> 00:38:55.440
think I feel terrific.

875
00:38:55.500 --> 00:38:57.840
And there's going to be elements of that with Ace and the

876
00:38:57.840 --> 00:39:02.219
Brigadier in Battlefield, but it is just a kind of nice nod to how

877
00:39:02.219 --> 00:39:05.460
the world has changed around the program in the last 10 years.

878
00:39:05.579 --> 00:39:09.059
And what's really good about that is it successfully makes the

879
00:39:09.059 --> 00:39:12.420
point that, yeah, the brigadier is being dismissive of them

880
00:39:12.420 --> 00:39:15.000
because they're women and that's not right and they are capable.

881
00:39:15.059 --> 00:39:18.539
But at the same time, it doesn't change his character.

882
00:39:18.599 --> 00:39:22.440
It's something naturally that the character was there and they

883
00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:24.900
don't go, oh, well, we shouldn't do that now.

884
00:39:24.900 --> 00:39:28.139
It's like, well, no, this is what the character was like.

885
00:39:28.199 --> 00:39:30.539
And yes, if you put the character in a modern setting, have the

886
00:39:30.539 --> 00:39:33.900
other characters comment on that morality and that idea.

887
00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:37.380
And I think it's actually more successful when they do it in

888
00:39:37.380 --> 00:39:40.800
battlefield, because both Ace and Bambera in battlefield, when we

889
00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:44.159
get there, by the end, they appreciate the brig and the brig

890
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:45.659
appreciates them and, you know.

891
00:39:45.659 --> 00:39:47.579
There's not quite so much of an arc.

892
00:39:47.639 --> 00:39:50.159
There's warmth and chemistry between the characters and stuff, but

893
00:39:50.159 --> 00:39:52.679
there's not that much sort of intentional...

894
00:39:52.860 --> 00:39:55.440
Going back a little tiny bit in the story.

895
00:39:55.500 --> 00:39:57.119
Or actually, no, it could be.

896
00:39:57.239 --> 00:39:59.760
No, it is contemporaneous when they're like, oh, you know, we

897
00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:00.840
can't get back to the ship.

898
00:40:00.900 --> 00:40:02.639
And the Briggs like, oh, I have a homing device.

899
00:40:02.699 --> 00:40:03.539
Tegan gave it to me.

900
00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:05.639
So we get a nice time loop kind of thing there.

901
00:40:05.699 --> 00:40:08.579
And so they get the homing device that Tegan gave to the

902
00:40:08.579 --> 00:40:09.239
brigadier.

903
00:40:09.300 --> 00:40:10.079
Yes.

904
00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:13.079
Isn't that great that it just happens to fit?

905
00:40:13.139 --> 00:40:14.280
Gallifran technology?

906
00:40:14.340 --> 00:40:15.840
It's so weird. isn't it?

907
00:40:15.900 --> 00:40:18.000
Because that thing never has an origin, does it?

908
00:40:18.059 --> 00:40:19.019
The timing device.

909
00:40:19.079 --> 00:40:21.659
Oh, um, Tegan takes it out of the Tartars.

910
00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:24.719
Tegan takes out of the TARDIS, but then what happens from then on

911
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:26.219
it just loops around and around.

912
00:40:26.280 --> 00:40:29.699
Well, Tegan takes it out of the TARDIS, gives it to the brigadier

913
00:40:29.699 --> 00:40:32.039
and then, yeah, it would come back to the TARDIS.

914
00:40:32.099 --> 00:40:35.280
So it's kind of like for the TARDIS, it's been half an hour for

915
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:36.000
the homing device.

916
00:40:36.059 --> 00:40:38.039
It's been away 6 years. a round trip.

917
00:40:38.099 --> 00:40:41.340
So it's not exactly a time loop or a predestination paradox or

918
00:40:41.340 --> 00:40:41.699
anything like that.

919
00:40:41.820 --> 00:40:46.739
Because so when the brigadier says, oh, I've got a Tartar timing

920
00:40:46.739 --> 00:40:49.199
device and we kind of go, wait, why the hell would you have a

921
00:40:49.199 --> 00:40:50.280
Tartar timing device?

922
00:40:50.280 --> 00:40:52.199
But then we see...

923
00:40:52.260 --> 00:40:52.440
Yeah.

924
00:40:52.440 --> 00:40:52.679
Yeah.

925
00:40:52.739 --> 00:40:53.460
Yeah.

926
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:55.860
And that's why they're able to lock onto the TARDS because Nissa

927
00:40:55.860 --> 00:40:58.139
takes out and gives it to Tegan saying, we don't know the area and

928
00:40:58.139 --> 00:40:58.800
you need to be quick.

929
00:40:58.860 --> 00:40:59.400
Right.

930
00:40:59.400 --> 00:41:02.340
She takes it down and she gives it to the breeder saying, oh, you

931
00:41:02.340 --> 00:41:04.260
know, it's one of the doctor's gizmos and he pockets it.

932
00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:08.880
The other part of that scene I really love is the doctor finding

933
00:41:08.880 --> 00:41:11.519
Turlow's crystal and just giving it back to him and saying, you

934
00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:12.000
drop this.

935
00:41:12.059 --> 00:41:15.840
The doctor knows that something is going on with him.

936
00:41:15.900 --> 00:41:18.599
And Tegan kind of treats the doctor like, oh, you know, I don't

937
00:41:18.599 --> 00:41:21.420
trust him, but the doctor just plays it close to his chest and

938
00:41:21.420 --> 00:41:22.739
he's like, no, I know there's something.

939
00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:29.219
And that is so important because when Colin Baker comes around in

940
00:41:29.219 --> 00:41:30.360
a year and a half .

941
00:41:30.420 --> 00:41:35.280
And again, with Sylvester McCoy, Andrew Cartmel kind of raises the

942
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:37.920
point that, you know, the doctor had become the universe's

943
00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:40.800
whipping boy and things just happen to him and he doesn't have any

944
00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:43.739
foreknowledge and he doesn't think ahead.

945
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:47.760
This is clearly the doctor, and this is a doctor who constantly

946
00:41:47.760 --> 00:41:49.500
gets locked up and doesn't think ahead.

947
00:41:49.559 --> 00:41:52.860
This is clearly him going, there's something going on here.

948
00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:54.420
I'm aware there's something going on.

949
00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:57.300
You now know I've got my eye on you, Turlow.

950
00:41:57.420 --> 00:42:00.179
But I'm gonna give you the chance.

951
00:42:00.239 --> 00:42:04.320
And that element of the characterisation between them is the most

952
00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:07.860
successful element of this trilogy stories, and I'll talk about

953
00:42:07.860 --> 00:42:09.300
that more in the next 2 stories.

954
00:42:09.780 --> 00:42:11.940
Okay, that's fine.

955
00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:14.460
I understand where you're coming from.

956
00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:17.219
I don't think it's successfully resolved at the end of the trilogy

957
00:42:17.219 --> 00:42:18.599
but we'll talk about that when we get to it.

958
00:42:18.659 --> 00:42:22.320
Can we talk about the scientific gobbledygook?

959
00:42:22.380 --> 00:42:22.800
Yeah.

960
00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:24.360
It's really bad.

961
00:42:24.420 --> 00:42:26.159
This story, isn't it?

962
00:42:26.219 --> 00:42:28.920
I can't even say it. limitation effect.

963
00:42:28.980 --> 00:42:31.800
But there's a lot of other stuff as well.

964
00:42:31.860 --> 00:42:33.000
Have you got notes?

965
00:42:33.059 --> 00:42:34.139
I've only got notes.

966
00:42:34.199 --> 00:42:36.840
There's lots of scientific mumbo jumbo part three.

967
00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:42.420
And that, and I mentioned that effect and it's like, it'll short

968
00:42:42.420 --> 00:42:45.960
out the time differential and there's the warper lips and there's

969
00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:47.340
all these different names of machines.

970
00:42:47.400 --> 00:42:48.119
Oh, come on.

971
00:42:48.179 --> 00:42:51.599
Yep, just referring to the Doctor Who discontinuity guide now.

972
00:42:51.659 --> 00:42:55.559
There's something about instability, known stability in 1983.

973
00:42:55.739 --> 00:42:56.519
I don't know.

974
00:42:56.579 --> 00:42:58.199
I've written down that line. don't know why.

975
00:42:58.260 --> 00:43:02.039
So referring to the Doctor Who discontinuity guide for

976
00:43:02.039 --> 00:43:05.400
Technobabble, we have, yep, a warp lips.

977
00:43:05.460 --> 00:43:08.400
Could it have been affected by a tangential deviation coming out

978
00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:10.980
of the water lips, not with the dead reckoning alignment in the

979
00:43:10.980 --> 00:43:11.579
coordinates.

980
00:43:11.639 --> 00:43:14.519
The doctor talks about reversing the clarity in the neutron flow

981
00:43:14.519 --> 00:43:14.820
as well.

982
00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:17.699
No, he does actually say that, which I quite like, but that's part

983
00:43:17.699 --> 00:43:18.000
four.

984
00:43:18.059 --> 00:43:21.659
There's a lot of that, and there was a lot of that last week, and

985
00:43:21.659 --> 00:43:25.199
it is, again, for the Doctor Who technical manual crowd.

986
00:43:25.320 --> 00:43:29.880
You know, it's not fun and I just think they should ditch it.

987
00:43:29.940 --> 00:43:33.420
Well, it's a convenient get out of the problem that they're in in

988
00:43:33.420 --> 00:43:34.500
episode four, really.

989
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:39.000
Well, I mean, you could do that without all just this leaden talk

990
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:41.159
about pretend scientific terms.

991
00:43:41.219 --> 00:43:45.900
And that was something that Douglas Adams sort of gently satirised

992
00:43:45.900 --> 00:43:51.780
and did in a really fun way with his gravitic anomalizers and...

993
00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:54.659
Yeah, yeah, the conceptual geometer and stuff.

994
00:43:54.719 --> 00:43:55.739
Those things are great.

995
00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:58.739
And Bitmead had a good line in technobabble as well.

996
00:43:58.800 --> 00:44:02.940
But this is like it's starting to become a fetish or something

997
00:44:02.940 --> 00:44:04.380
that they think is entertaining.

998
00:44:04.440 --> 00:44:12.599
And related to that is this is another story with heavy influence

999
00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:15.420
of time lords and time lordiness.

1000
00:44:15.480 --> 00:44:18.300
Oh, yes, because you have storm and time more technology.

1001
00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:22.679
So we've got that bit of, yeah, there's all that time lord-y sort

1002
00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:23.159
of stuff.

1003
00:44:23.219 --> 00:44:25.500
And I hate it when the doctors are timelord.

1004
00:44:25.559 --> 00:44:28.079
Take me back to the 60s when that wasn't even a thing.

1005
00:44:28.199 --> 00:44:32.099
But the thing is, the time lords are done better in this story by

1006
00:44:32.099 --> 00:44:35.880
their non-appearance than they are in Arc of Infinity, because I

1007
00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:39.360
think Morden's people are referred to as mutants, like the

1008
00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:40.380
mutants.

1009
00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:44.820
They steal the time load technology, but it's got this thing in it

1010
00:44:44.820 --> 00:44:48.539
that makes them immortal, but they don't heal and their their

1011
00:44:48.539 --> 00:44:51.360
physical form, never settles, da da da.

1012
00:44:51.420 --> 00:44:55.139
So it sets the time lords up as these sort of mythic punishes.

1013
00:44:55.199 --> 00:44:57.659
Like if you look back to underworld where they screw up an entire

1014
00:44:57.659 --> 00:45:00.480
culture, they just kind of whistle and wipe their hands off and

1015
00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:01.019
walk away.

1016
00:45:01.079 --> 00:45:03.719
Whereas in this, it's like, okay, yeah, you can have our

1017
00:45:03.719 --> 00:45:04.199
technology.

1018
00:45:04.260 --> 00:45:06.239
You're not gonna like it.

1019
00:45:06.300 --> 00:45:10.619
And yeah, it sets them up as these sort of horrible mythic

1020
00:45:10.619 --> 00:45:11.099
beings.

1021
00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:14.400
You know, if we hadn't had Arc of Infinity showing us that they're

1022
00:45:14.400 --> 00:45:18.780
just a bunch of people in curtains sitting around sipping coffee.

1023
00:45:18.840 --> 00:45:19.920
Blue boringers.

1024
00:45:21.059 --> 00:45:25.500
But for me as a kid, I loved Time Lord stuff.

1025
00:45:25.559 --> 00:45:26.280
I really did.

1026
00:45:26.340 --> 00:45:29.519
Like, I said a few weeks ago that when I 1st watched Arc of

1027
00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:32.460
Infinity, it was amazing and mind blowing, and, you know, then I

1028
00:45:32.460 --> 00:45:32.820
grew up.

1029
00:45:32.880 --> 00:45:36.840
But this story for me maintains that mystique.

1030
00:45:36.960 --> 00:45:40.019
Image of the Fendal, maybe, or something like that.

1031
00:45:40.139 --> 00:45:40.920
Yeah, yeah.

1032
00:45:40.980 --> 00:45:44.099
And also, the idea that the kind of the time lords could be this

1033
00:45:44.099 --> 00:45:44.579
horrible.

1034
00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:47.280
And even though we have a villain in the story who's forcing the

1035
00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:50.340
doctor to do things and pretending to take his identity and what

1036
00:45:50.340 --> 00:45:53.579
have you, he doesn't want to take over a planet.

1037
00:45:53.639 --> 00:45:55.739
Yeah, they don't want to harm anyone.

1038
00:45:55.800 --> 00:45:59.820
He helps the brigadier into the capsule and stuff, the 77

1039
00:45:59.820 --> 00:46:01.500
brigadier into the capsule.

1040
00:46:01.559 --> 00:46:03.719
He doesn't seem to be a bad guy.

1041
00:46:05.159 --> 00:46:08.460
I mean, that's one of the things about the jeopardy of this story

1042
00:46:08.460 --> 00:46:12.059
and what I've been talking about, is that nobody dies, except for

1043
00:46:12.059 --> 00:46:13.079
the people who want to die.

1044
00:46:13.139 --> 00:46:16.380
The only jeopardy is really conceptual that the doctor won't have

1045
00:46:16.380 --> 00:46:18.719
any of his lives, right?

1046
00:46:18.780 --> 00:46:20.400
So you wouldn't actually see that death.

1047
00:46:20.460 --> 00:46:21.119
No, right?

1048
00:46:21.179 --> 00:46:21.480
Okay.

1049
00:46:21.539 --> 00:46:26.699
Obviously, the side effect that we discover in episode four, the

1050
00:46:26.699 --> 00:46:29.519
sting in the town is, of course, that Nyssa and Teagan desperately

1051
00:46:29.519 --> 00:46:30.659
need a day spa.

1052
00:46:30.900 --> 00:46:33.840
I think that makeup's too horrible as well.

1053
00:46:33.900 --> 00:46:35.460
But then when they're really old.

1054
00:46:35.579 --> 00:46:38.099
No, I think it is so brilliant.

1055
00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:39.960
It is it is yucky and it is terrible.

1056
00:46:40.019 --> 00:46:42.840
And I think because it's only on screen for 5 seconds.

1057
00:46:42.900 --> 00:46:43.559
It needs to be.

1058
00:46:43.619 --> 00:46:46.199
Like, you'd need to get the point straight away that this is

1059
00:46:46.199 --> 00:46:47.099
horrifying.

1060
00:46:47.159 --> 00:46:49.500
And Sarah Sutton, again, it's another moment where she really

1061
00:46:49.500 --> 00:46:50.039
sells it.

1062
00:46:50.099 --> 00:46:51.360
Oh, awful.

1063
00:46:51.420 --> 00:46:53.039
She's kind of twitching.

1064
00:46:53.039 --> 00:46:54.480
Oh, she's really upsetting.

1065
00:46:54.539 --> 00:46:57.900
And then we get the juxtaposition to that, which is the young, Mr

1066
00:46:57.900 --> 00:47:00.480
and Tegan, and they're just awful.

1067
00:47:00.539 --> 00:47:05.340
Nissa, young Nissa is uncredited, but she's actually Julie from

1068
00:47:05.340 --> 00:47:06.480
Press Gang.

1069
00:47:06.539 --> 00:47:10.440
So seasons one and the last few seasons of press gang.

1070
00:47:10.500 --> 00:47:14.820
Okay, I know from EastEnders, but she's on the DVD.

1071
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:17.699
She's really proud of that being in Doctor 2 and that, I would be

1072
00:47:17.699 --> 00:47:18.719
saying, honey, you know.

1073
00:47:18.780 --> 00:47:20.219
Well, they're little kids.

1074
00:47:20.280 --> 00:47:22.679
I mean, Tegan doesn't seem to have an Australian accent in that

1075
00:47:22.679 --> 00:47:23.340
scene.

1076
00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:24.599
Yeah, stop, stop.

1077
00:47:24.659 --> 00:47:28.800
But back to what I was saying, like, obviously, it's very

1078
00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:31.860
convenient that the 2 mutiers meet at that one time, so this

1079
00:47:31.860 --> 00:47:35.219
energy discharge, however, kills the mutants and everybody else is

1080
00:47:35.219 --> 00:47:35.579
healed.

1081
00:47:35.639 --> 00:47:37.619
I quite, I tell you what I like.

1082
00:47:37.679 --> 00:47:44.039
I like the fact that the brigadier from 83 remembers that this is

1083
00:47:44.039 --> 00:47:46.320
how it went down in 77.

1084
00:47:46.619 --> 00:47:50.880
And so he deliberately puts his hand out to touch the other one.

1085
00:47:50.940 --> 00:47:58.019
And I think that Moffat has this story in mind when he writes time

1086
00:47:58.019 --> 00:48:03.360
crash because remember, the future doctor, like David Tennant's

1087
00:48:03.360 --> 00:48:07.739
doctor solves the problem because he remembers the problem from

1088
00:48:07.739 --> 00:48:09.780
when he was the 5th doctor.

1089
00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:13.019
And it also has the dialogue about shorting out the time

1090
00:48:13.019 --> 00:48:15.179
differential as well in time crash.

1091
00:48:15.239 --> 00:48:19.500
So I think that Moffat is calling back to that in that story.

1092
00:48:19.559 --> 00:48:20.460
I agree.

1093
00:48:20.519 --> 00:48:23.280
I think you said something really insightful about the threat to

1094
00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:25.679
the doctor that he won't have any more regenerations.

1095
00:48:25.739 --> 00:48:29.039
So he says he's going to be no longer a time lord, and then we

1096
00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:32.099
crash to the cliffhanger.

1097
00:48:32.159 --> 00:48:34.500
And I don't think that's a great cliffhanger.

1098
00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:38.699
It's very word-perily, and I even think that if we'd been told

1099
00:48:38.699 --> 00:48:43.320
that they were taking away all his regenerations, that might have

1100
00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:43.860
been better.

1101
00:48:43.920 --> 00:48:48.239
But it's still kind of a crummy threat, because it's just, you

1102
00:48:48.239 --> 00:48:48.840
wouldn't see it.

1103
00:48:48.900 --> 00:48:49.920
Do you know what I mean?

1104
00:48:49.980 --> 00:48:51.840
You would just walk away as Peter Davidson.

1105
00:48:51.900 --> 00:48:53.340
I'm just very visual.

1106
00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:56.219
And, like, even the Mordram people say, we don't want to kill

1107
00:48:56.219 --> 00:48:57.300
anyone, you know?

1108
00:48:57.360 --> 00:48:59.579
And so last week we didn't kill anyone.

1109
00:48:59.639 --> 00:49:01.619
And the week before the Ergon didn't kill anyone.

1110
00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:06.659
You look so sweet and mild mannered on the surface, but you're

1111
00:49:06.659 --> 00:49:08.219
just lusting for blood.

1112
00:49:08.699 --> 00:49:10.619
Apparently I am.

1113
00:49:10.679 --> 00:49:12.599
Just wait till we get to season 22, you know.

1114
00:49:12.960 --> 00:49:15.239
I don't have a problem with it.

1115
00:49:15.300 --> 00:49:17.219
And that's the truth, people.

1116
00:49:17.280 --> 00:49:19.739
I just want there to be more deadly danger.

1117
00:49:19.800 --> 00:49:21.179
And it's not there.

1118
00:49:21.239 --> 00:49:24.960
I'm already sick of has the Black Guardians started to threaten

1119
00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:26.579
Turlo with destruction for not...

1120
00:49:26.820 --> 00:49:27.239
Yeah, yeah.

1121
00:49:27.300 --> 00:49:28.679
And I'm already at least three times.

1122
00:49:29.340 --> 00:49:31.440
And I'm already I'm already sick of that, you know?

1123
00:49:31.500 --> 00:49:33.360
We do get the resolution.

1124
00:49:33.420 --> 00:49:36.059
Obviously before we get to that.

1125
00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:38.940
There a moment, I think, Peter Davidson's great, which we look so

1126
00:49:38.940 --> 00:49:41.400
sullen at what he, you know, he's given...

1127
00:49:41.400 --> 00:49:44.400
When he decides that he's going to, and he really sells it.

1128
00:49:44.460 --> 00:49:46.739
We know that that's his decision. and it's really good.

1129
00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:51.420
And you know what's really nice is that Tegan thanks at the end

1130
00:49:51.420 --> 00:49:54.780
that it is just a wonderful moment because actually quite early in

1131
00:49:54.780 --> 00:49:59.280
the story, and I've got my notes here, she's very much, am I free

1132
00:49:59.280 --> 00:50:00.000
of the Mara?

1133
00:50:00.059 --> 00:50:01.019
She's all about herself.

1134
00:50:01.079 --> 00:50:04.619
It's just something I noted that here is just a lovely moment.

1135
00:50:04.679 --> 00:50:07.079
She's so gracious. isn't she?

1136
00:50:07.139 --> 00:50:11.699
And her reaction as well to the death of all the Maudrenettes

1137
00:50:11.699 --> 00:50:15.179
around her is lovely and underplayed too.

1138
00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:18.000
I mean, she really, really is good.

1139
00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:21.480
And I think the reason that I've been complimenting Janet for the

1140
00:50:21.480 --> 00:50:25.440
last few episodes is that this morning I watched Modern Undead

1141
00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:30.420
episode 4 and was so impressed by her acting in that scene.

1142
00:50:30.480 --> 00:50:31.320
She's really good.

1143
00:50:31.380 --> 00:50:34.079
That moment is so beautiful.

1144
00:50:34.139 --> 00:50:37.500
Of course, what we've seen of Tegan in season 19, She's

1145
00:50:37.500 --> 00:50:40.980
antagonistic and I want to get home and you've abducted me and you

1146
00:50:40.980 --> 00:50:42.059
have to sort this out.

1147
00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:46.079
And, of course, last week she was in great peril.

1148
00:50:46.079 --> 00:50:48.960
And as you say, Todd, you know, at the top of this story.

1149
00:50:49.019 --> 00:50:51.420
No, oh, thank you, doctor, you've destroyed the Mara.

1150
00:50:51.480 --> 00:50:55.800
You know, it's still an understandable reaction and well, well, it

1151
00:50:55.800 --> 00:50:58.739
is a self-ish reaction, like a reaction of the self.

1152
00:50:58.800 --> 00:51:01.199
It's understandable to say, look, am I going to get bloody taken

1153
00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:01.739
over again?

1154
00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:06.239
But yet, that quiet moment at the end where, you know, he's on the

1155
00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:08.639
ground, she comes down to him and she thanks him and he's just

1156
00:51:08.639 --> 00:51:09.179
speechless.

1157
00:51:09.239 --> 00:51:10.380
He says nothing.

1158
00:51:10.440 --> 00:51:15.300
It's a beautiful moment between the characters, but it's so well

1159
00:51:15.300 --> 00:51:18.360
played and underplayed between the actors.

1160
00:51:18.360 --> 00:51:23.280
And I think that character wise, there's also a little bit of an

1161
00:51:23.280 --> 00:51:27.360
element of, don't tell anyone I said this, but because, you know

1162
00:51:27.360 --> 00:51:29.579
she's not saying it with Nissa and the brigadier around.

1163
00:51:29.699 --> 00:51:33.119
But at the same time, it's also a private moment of, this is a

1164
00:51:33.119 --> 00:51:38.519
character who is very, very vocal and always says what's on her

1165
00:51:38.519 --> 00:51:39.059
mind.

1166
00:51:39.059 --> 00:51:43.019
And this is a moment where she's like, no, no, this needs to be a

1167
00:51:43.019 --> 00:51:43.559
quiet moment.

1168
00:51:43.619 --> 00:51:46.139
It's absolutely beautiful.

1169
00:51:46.260 --> 00:51:46.980
It is.

1170
00:51:47.039 --> 00:51:48.960
They keep giving Tegan this stuff.

1171
00:51:49.320 --> 00:51:52.800
So do you think that means that Matt Smith wasn't a timelord?

1172
00:51:52.860 --> 00:51:53.820
Why?

1173
00:51:53.880 --> 00:51:56.159
Well, because he couldn't regenerate anymore.

1174
00:51:56.460 --> 00:52:00.179
I mean, the big threat is I won't be a timelord anymore because I

1175
00:52:00.179 --> 00:52:01.980
won't have any more regenerations.

1176
00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:06.239
Again, I think it's just saying it in a more sort of accessible

1177
00:52:06.239 --> 00:52:06.719
way.

1178
00:52:06.780 --> 00:52:10.619
The whole premise of the program will be violated if I do this and

1179
00:52:10.619 --> 00:52:11.699
that's why I can't do it.

1180
00:52:11.760 --> 00:52:13.920
But Matt didn't have any regenerations left.

1181
00:52:13.980 --> 00:52:16.320
You know, if he had a said, I've got 8 more lives.

1182
00:52:16.380 --> 00:52:18.900
I've got 7 more deaths, so you want me to give up all my debts?

1183
00:52:18.960 --> 00:52:19.619
I will die.

1184
00:52:19.679 --> 00:52:21.420
That's a better cliffhanger.

1185
00:52:21.480 --> 00:52:24.599
You know, if there had been one more mutant and not just, I will

1186
00:52:24.599 --> 00:52:26.519
still walk away this as Peter Davis.

1187
00:52:26.579 --> 00:52:27.960
No, I will literally be dead.

1188
00:52:28.019 --> 00:52:31.380
Yeah, that would have been, that would have been, that would have

1189
00:52:31.380 --> 00:52:32.099
been more jeopardy.

1190
00:52:32.159 --> 00:52:35.099
That's my biggest beef with this story in the last 2 episodes.

1191
00:52:35.159 --> 00:52:37.980
Like, again, you know, last week I said I felt that steak dance

1192
00:52:37.980 --> 00:52:38.699
could have been three.

1193
00:52:38.760 --> 00:52:41.400
I still think this could have been 3 episodes.

1194
00:52:41.460 --> 00:52:43.619
Yeah, this is a terrible Patty in episode three.

1195
00:52:43.679 --> 00:52:45.119
There's still these lovely moments.

1196
00:52:45.179 --> 00:52:47.880
There's still stuff I'm doing, but I'm just there going, okay, get

1197
00:52:47.880 --> 00:52:48.539
on with it, please.

1198
00:52:48.599 --> 00:52:51.420
We get that lovely moment with Tegan.

1199
00:52:51.480 --> 00:52:55.199
And then we get a moment with Turlow, where he asks the doctor, may

1200
00:52:55.199 --> 00:52:56.039
I join you?

1201
00:52:56.099 --> 00:52:57.119
And they shake hands.

1202
00:52:57.179 --> 00:52:59.760
You know, what's underlying that?

1203
00:52:59.820 --> 00:53:00.599
Yeah.

1204
00:53:00.659 --> 00:53:03.960
And I love the eye roll between Tegan and Nissa.

1205
00:53:04.860 --> 00:53:09.179
I have to say that I'm hugely excited to see how this will play

1206
00:53:09.179 --> 00:53:10.079
out next week.

1207
00:53:10.619 --> 00:53:12.780
Such a nice bunch of kids.

1208
00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:14.099
I hope it all goes well for them.

1209
00:53:35.159 --> 00:53:39.239
Well, as we leave the brigadier on Earth to recover from his

1210
00:53:39.239 --> 00:53:43.800
mental attack at the hands of himself, we'll be heading to the

1211
00:53:43.800 --> 00:53:46.260
centre of the universe for Terminus next week.

1212
00:53:46.380 --> 00:53:48.179
So please do come back for that.

1213
00:53:48.300 --> 00:53:50.280
I'll understand if you don't.

1214
00:53:50.400 --> 00:53:52.559
Can I take the week off?

1215
00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:54.480
Richard.

1216
00:53:54.539 --> 00:53:58.739
Until then, you can find us online at flightthroughentirety.sexy

1217
00:53:58.739 --> 00:54:01.800
fly through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on

1218
00:54:01.800 --> 00:54:03.659
Twitter over on Bondfinger.

1219
00:54:03.719 --> 00:54:07.440
We released Moonraker last week, and we also have a variety of

1220
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:10.440
other James Bond commentaries available, Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger

1221
00:54:10.440 --> 00:54:12.900
on Facebook and iTunes, Bondfingercast on Twitter.

1222
00:54:12.960 --> 00:54:18.420
Meanwhile, on YouTube, you can now find Doctor Who in 10 seconds

1223
00:54:18.420 --> 00:54:19.440
season seven.

1224
00:54:19.500 --> 00:54:21.059
So do enjoy that.

1225
00:54:21.119 --> 00:54:23.940
I think it will actually be the shortest one to date.

1226
00:54:24.119 --> 00:54:28.559
Until next week, however, may none of your brains pulse through

1227
00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:29.039
your skull.

1228
00:54:29.099 --> 00:54:30.360
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1229
00:54:30.420 --> 00:54:31.019
Good night.

1230
00:54:31.079 --> 00:54:31.980
See you soon.

1231
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:38.280
That was, like, her entirety, starring Todd, BLB, Nathan Bottomley

1232
00:54:38.280 --> 00:54:41.039
and Brenda Jones theme arrangement by Cameron Lab.

1233
00:54:41.099 --> 00:54:44.579
This episode, Spidey Sense, was recorded on the 24th of July

1234
00:54:44.579 --> 00:54:45.300
2016.

1235
00:54:45.539 --> 00:54:48.900
The next episode will be released in 2 weeks time on the 3rd of

1236
00:54:48.900 --> 00:54:49.260
September.

1237
00:54:50.159 --> 00:54:54.239
Any aspiring podcasters who might wish to learn a valuable lesson

1238
00:54:54.239 --> 00:54:57.179
about the pitfalls of recording a crucial episode with a puppy in

1239
00:54:57.179 --> 00:55:00.179
the house should continue listening once the closing credits are

1240
00:55:00.179 --> 00:55:00.360
over.

1241
00:55:03.420 --> 00:55:07.320
She's a perfectly reasonable character, but, but as you said, like

1242
00:55:07.320 --> 00:55:13.619
you'll be happier once there's only 2 I might just move that

1243
00:55:13.619 --> 00:55:14.099
food.

1244
00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:20.340
It's okay. mate, you have to wait until you start the whole week.

1245
00:55:23.579 --> 00:55:25.800
You're a good boy.

1246
00:55:25.980 --> 00:55:30.239
Now, of course, in standard definition, That's not easy to see, but

1247
00:55:30.239 --> 00:55:33.179
you can immediately see there is something.

1248
00:55:36.360 --> 00:55:37.559
Hey, little May.

1249
00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:42.000
You know, so it's just a little extra level that allows a

1250
00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:42.840
character to figure.

1251
00:55:42.900 --> 00:55:44.940
It's wait.

1252
00:55:44.940 --> 00:55:46.260
He's going to keep joking.

1253
00:55:46.920 --> 00:55:51.119
Because it used to be, he'd come up for a pat and you go to Pat

1254
00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:52.079
and he'd run away.

1255
00:55:52.139 --> 00:55:54.000
Yeah, it's so much more true.

1256
00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:55.679
Because you bite your hand as well.

1257
00:55:55.739 --> 00:55:57.900
He was crying.

1258
00:55:57.900 --> 00:56:00.360
He was, because he's, I've been teaching him to sit.

1259
00:56:00.420 --> 00:56:05.400
And so when I came to pick him up after 3 weeks, He was jumping

1260
00:56:05.400 --> 00:56:07.860
jumping up on me and trying to bite my hands and all of that sort

1261
00:56:07.860 --> 00:56:08.219
of thing.

1262
00:56:08.280 --> 00:56:10.800
And it would make him sit and he would sit.

1263
00:56:10.860 --> 00:56:14.099
He's still sit, but he would cry because he really didn't want to

1264
00:56:14.099 --> 00:56:14.699
be sitting.

1265
00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:16.440
He wanted to be jumping up on me.

1266
00:56:16.500 --> 00:56:22.199
I've even got a picture where you can actually see, you can have

1267
00:56:22.199 --> 00:56:24.000
to do this as a doting parent.