WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 16:21:08 1 00:00:30.300 --> 00:00:34.920 Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety 2 00:00:34.920 --> 00:00:37.560 the only Doctor Who podcast who expected something rather better 3 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:38.579 in the afterlife. 4 00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:39.179 I'm Brendan. 5 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:39.960 I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:44.219 I'm Todd, and, well, there's no other way to put this. 7 00:00:44.280 --> 00:00:47.520 The ice warriors are not here and we're talking about terminus. 8 00:00:59.579 --> 00:01:04.680 So, Stephen Gallagher's back, uh, the writer of Warrior's Gate 9 00:01:04.680 --> 00:01:07.200 which I seem to recall, you know, we all kind of enjoy it, even 10 00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:10.079 though it was a bit confusing, but it looks like this time he's 11 00:01:10.079 --> 00:01:14.640 trying to write something a little more um, down to earth 12 00:01:14.640 --> 00:01:16.859 straightforward, less mystical. 13 00:01:16.920 --> 00:01:19.140 Uh, 1st impressions, gentlemen. 14 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:20.819 Well, it's terrible, isn't it? 15 00:01:20.879 --> 00:01:24.959 That's shockingly bad. being unfair? 16 00:01:25.019 --> 00:01:26.879 No, I loathe it. 17 00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:31.140 Well, I've been really harsh, but I didn't have a break between 18 00:01:31.140 --> 00:01:34.319 this and the previous 3 stories and it just did my head in when I 19 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:34.739 got to this. 20 00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:38.099 You are kind of famous for not liking season 20. 21 00:01:38.459 --> 00:01:39.060 Yeah. 22 00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:39.420 Yeah. 23 00:01:39.480 --> 00:01:42.060 But, you know, coming into this, I'm just missing monsters 24 00:01:42.060 --> 00:01:42.420 Nathan. 25 00:01:42.540 --> 00:01:43.500 Yeah, yeah. 26 00:01:43.560 --> 00:01:44.459 I think that's a problem. 27 00:01:44.519 --> 00:01:46.560 And there is, there is a high concept. 28 00:01:46.620 --> 00:01:50.400 Warrior's Gate. had, you know, that intersection between universes 29 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:57.060 and this has a spaceship at the centre of the universe that causes 30 00:01:57.060 --> 00:01:58.859 the universe to come into existence. 31 00:01:58.859 --> 00:02:03.239 But that's actually not as interesting as it sounds on paper. 32 00:02:03.299 --> 00:02:04.620 No, no. 33 00:02:04.680 --> 00:02:06.359 And I think I think that is a bit of a problem. 34 00:02:06.420 --> 00:02:10.259 My 1st problem with it is it confuses the whole event one thing 35 00:02:10.259 --> 00:02:13.500 from last season because is it just me or was event one in Castro 36 00:02:13.500 --> 00:02:17.400 Palva, the creation of a galaxy rather than a universe. 37 00:02:17.759 --> 00:02:21.060 Are they just being terrination and throwing these words about 38 00:02:21.060 --> 00:02:21.840 willy-nilly? 39 00:02:21.900 --> 00:02:25.379 Like, you know, guardian of the solar system, which includes 500 40 00:02:25.379 --> 00:02:26.219 planets. 41 00:02:26.280 --> 00:02:27.060 No, it doesn't. 42 00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:30.719 And people from various galaxies, you know, all over the place. 43 00:02:30.780 --> 00:02:34.139 I think that was Bidmead being uncharacteristically careless 44 00:02:34.139 --> 00:02:37.740 actually, because the idea that the universe is created by a 45 00:02:37.740 --> 00:02:41.639 massive hydrogen in rush makes sense, sort of, in a way that it 46 00:02:41.639 --> 00:02:44.219 doesn't make sense for the galaxy to be created that way. 47 00:02:44.280 --> 00:02:45.240 Yeah, yeah. 48 00:02:45.300 --> 00:02:48.539 I mean, here, Event one makes more sense since the beginning of 49 00:02:48.539 --> 00:02:49.259 the universe. 50 00:02:49.319 --> 00:02:52.199 And I think, I think there is a reason that the concept kind of 51 00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:53.400 falls on its face. 52 00:02:53.460 --> 00:02:56.639 And for a start, the cliffhanger. 53 00:02:56.699 --> 00:02:58.919 Is it the cliffhanger for episode three? 54 00:02:58.979 --> 00:02:59.460 Yeah. 55 00:02:59.460 --> 00:02:59.759 Yeah. 56 00:02:59.819 --> 00:03:00.960 It is word peril. 57 00:03:01.020 --> 00:03:03.000 Yeah, it's really bad word peril. 58 00:03:03.060 --> 00:03:05.580 And we were talking about this a bit earlier, Brendan. 59 00:03:05.639 --> 00:03:08.580 We were talking about the word peril cliffhanger in Arc of 60 00:03:08.580 --> 00:03:10.020 Infinity, episode three. 61 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:12.900 Like it's a word peril cliffhanger where something uninteresting 62 00:03:12.900 --> 00:03:13.379 is happening. 63 00:03:13.500 --> 00:03:16.379 Omega controls the Matrix. 64 00:03:16.439 --> 00:03:16.979 Who cares? 65 00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:18.419 And what's the Matrix again? 66 00:03:18.659 --> 00:03:22.560 Here the universe is going to be destroyed, but really that's all 67 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:26.520 that we get from that entire concept is just a word peril 68 00:03:26.520 --> 00:03:28.740 cliffhanger in episode three. 69 00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:32.879 And given that that whole crisis is pretty easily averted by Jojo 70 00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:39.479 the dogfaced boy. you know with his dirty fingernails. pulling a 71 00:03:39.479 --> 00:03:39.960 lever. 72 00:03:40.020 --> 00:03:42.960 You know, it doesn't actually end up being of any interest at 73 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:43.199 all. 74 00:03:43.259 --> 00:03:46.199 It's just something for Kari and the doctor to talk about 75 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:48.659 basically in their plot line. 76 00:03:48.719 --> 00:03:52.500 Yeah, and I think, you know, we're kind of getting to it early in 77 00:03:52.500 --> 00:03:55.919 this episode, but I was thinking to myself, what makes this story 78 00:03:55.919 --> 00:03:56.699 not work? 79 00:03:56.879 --> 00:04:03.240 And the thing is, I quite enjoy this story in a way, but it's one 80 00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:05.520 of those ones where I look at it and go, I can see what you're 81 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:06.120 trying to do. 82 00:04:06.180 --> 00:04:08.460 There were all sorts of production problems, which I'll go into in 83 00:04:08.460 --> 00:04:08.759 a moment. 84 00:04:08.819 --> 00:04:12.539 But you've got a story of 2 plot lines. 85 00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:16.019 You've got a story of the Lazar disease, and NISA becoming 86 00:04:16.019 --> 00:04:19.079 affected with the Lazar disease, um, figuring out there is a 87 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:21.959 better way to cure it, and spoiler alert, dealer, staying behind 88 00:04:21.959 --> 00:04:22.800 in order to do that. 89 00:04:22.860 --> 00:04:27.600 And then you've got the plot about terminus being at the exact 90 00:04:27.600 --> 00:04:30.300 centre of the universe and having started the universe, Todd is 91 00:04:30.300 --> 00:04:32.759 grimacing. having started the universe and possibly being the end 92 00:04:32.759 --> 00:04:33.240 of the universe. 93 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:37.620 The big problem is, those plots have absolutely nothing to do with 94 00:04:37.620 --> 00:04:38.100 one another. 95 00:04:38.220 --> 00:04:41.160 Do you know, you're forgetting the 3rd plot, which people 96 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:42.660 criticise and rightly so. 97 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:43.560 Oh, yeah. 98 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:46.379 But I actually think it's the most successful of the plots. 99 00:04:46.379 --> 00:04:50.459 And that is where Turlo and Tegan crawl around in subducting for 100 00:04:50.459 --> 00:04:51.240 quite a long time. 101 00:04:51.300 --> 00:04:54.180 And they even emerge from the ducting, I think, at some point in 102 00:04:54.180 --> 00:04:56.879 episode 2 and then just go back into the ducting. 103 00:04:56.939 --> 00:04:58.019 There is lots of ducting. 104 00:04:58.079 --> 00:05:02.759 But there is actually a proper through line in that story because 105 00:05:02.759 --> 00:05:07.259 it's about Tegan and Turlow becoming the doctor's 2 companions. 106 00:05:07.319 --> 00:05:07.740 Yeah, exactly. 107 00:05:07.860 --> 00:05:11.519 And the episode starts off with them wrangling in the TARDIS. 108 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:14.160 And it's like 5 minutes before the doctor appears or maybe even 7 109 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:15.600 minutes before the doctor appears. 110 00:05:15.660 --> 00:05:17.819 We don't leave the TARDIS to go anywhere. 111 00:05:17.879 --> 00:05:22.620 It's all about those 2 and the way that Tegan doesn't like 112 00:05:22.620 --> 00:05:23.879 Turlow. 113 00:05:23.939 --> 00:05:26.699 And then the 2 of them actually gradually start working together 114 00:05:26.699 --> 00:05:28.079 really well, I think. 115 00:05:28.139 --> 00:05:31.379 And the funny thing about that opening scene, I really enjoy that 116 00:05:31.379 --> 00:05:34.139 opening scene, except, of course, for upper, it's the blue 117 00:05:34.139 --> 00:05:34.740 switches. 118 00:05:34.800 --> 00:05:38.819 It's like, yeah, we've got this mystical magical time machine. 119 00:05:38.879 --> 00:05:41.160 You can break it down by pressing the blue switches. 120 00:05:41.220 --> 00:05:43.199 It's basically easier to break the windows 10. 121 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:48.660 But, That scene between Tegan and Turlow, it's really well written 122 00:05:48.660 --> 00:05:49.740 it's really well performed. 123 00:05:49.800 --> 00:05:51.959 It's filler material by Eric Saywood. 124 00:05:52.019 --> 00:05:53.399 So he can get it right. 125 00:05:53.459 --> 00:05:55.800 I don't think it's well written, but I do think it is well 126 00:05:55.800 --> 00:05:56.399 performed. 127 00:05:56.399 --> 00:05:59.399 And I do think that it gives that whole plot, which is just 128 00:05:59.399 --> 00:06:00.540 basically marking time. 129 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:03.000 It's not quite as bad as, you know, stuffing them in the TARDIS 130 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:06.779 with a delta wave augmentor for 4 episodes, but it is just kind of 131 00:06:06.779 --> 00:06:09.839 giving them something to do. find it tedious. 132 00:06:09.899 --> 00:06:10.319 Yeah. 133 00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:14.279 I think they're great actors and they really do, they, they do 134 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:14.639 sell it. 135 00:06:14.699 --> 00:06:17.040 But, you know, I think you can have a drinking game the number of 136 00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:20.399 times that Tegan says Turlow in those tunnels. 137 00:06:20.819 --> 00:06:23.639 And you know, she's very aggressive towards Turlo at the beginning 138 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:27.060 and so I can see that, you know, they're trying to bond, right? 139 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:28.980 And, you know, they're in Adrik's room. 140 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:31.139 Why do we have to go back to Edrick's room, we get the theme. in 141 00:06:31.139 --> 00:06:34.680 the Tartars, again, how many stories have we in the since John 142 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:36.120 Nathan Turner has taken over? 143 00:06:36.180 --> 00:06:40.019 Have we not actually been inside the TARDIS for an episode, like 144 00:06:40.019 --> 00:06:40.800 within the story? 145 00:06:40.860 --> 00:06:42.360 I think there's like, what? 146 00:06:42.420 --> 00:06:45.959 Kinder, you don't see the interior and is it the leisure hive? 147 00:06:46.019 --> 00:06:46.379 Is that it? 148 00:06:46.500 --> 00:06:47.279 You know? 149 00:06:47.339 --> 00:06:48.180 I think you might be right. 150 00:06:48.300 --> 00:06:52.560 A friend of the podcast, Philip Edney just said, those scenes with 151 00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:55.560 Mark and Janet, or should it say Tegan Eternal, he finds painful. 152 00:06:55.620 --> 00:06:58.139 And I do, by the end of it, I'm just saying, get out of the bloody 153 00:06:58.139 --> 00:06:59.339 ducting, you know? 154 00:06:59.399 --> 00:07:00.540 It looks great on film. 155 00:07:00.660 --> 00:07:03.000 But it's like, that's going on. 156 00:07:03.060 --> 00:07:05.519 I'm going, oh, for goodness sake, this is just a diversion. 157 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:10.439 And then we've got these corridors of white or whatever. 158 00:07:10.500 --> 00:07:12.060 Like, I'm over corridors. 159 00:07:12.120 --> 00:07:14.040 I think we got from last episode. 160 00:07:14.100 --> 00:07:15.120 So it's just doing my head in. 161 00:07:15.180 --> 00:07:18.000 I just want, I'm taking this in a different direction. 162 00:07:18.120 --> 00:07:18.779 I want monsters. 163 00:07:18.839 --> 00:07:21.779 To me, this should have been the Dalek story, right? 164 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:25.319 And it should have been a diversion from this black guardian 165 00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:26.040 trilogy. 166 00:07:26.100 --> 00:07:29.579 Oh my god, I'm over the Black Guardian, like threatening Turlo 167 00:07:29.579 --> 00:07:29.939 every other thing. 168 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:30.959 It's hollow threats. 169 00:07:31.079 --> 00:07:34.199 And, you know, it would have been great to have a Dalek story here 170 00:07:34.199 --> 00:07:36.600 where he actually had, you know, these horrible things in front of 171 00:07:36.600 --> 00:07:39.540 him and he's got to, you know, we weave all his way out of it 172 00:07:39.540 --> 00:07:42.600 without actually, that's the distraction rather than this where 173 00:07:42.600 --> 00:07:43.800 we're trapped in a... 174 00:07:43.800 --> 00:07:45.000 Yeah, yeah. 175 00:07:45.060 --> 00:07:49.079 I mean, when they when they get out of the ducks in episode two. 176 00:07:49.139 --> 00:07:50.699 I was relieved. 177 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:55.319 For context, dear listeners, I was actually ill this week and sat 178 00:07:55.319 --> 00:07:58.199 down in one day and watched Terminus Enlightenment Kings demons to 179 00:07:58.199 --> 00:07:59.939 get up to date and more on that story later. 180 00:08:00.060 --> 00:08:02.339 We actually don't recommend that as a way of dealing with an 181 00:08:02.339 --> 00:08:03.600 illness listeners at home. 182 00:08:03.899 --> 00:08:05.939 Watching the king's demons. 183 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:07.139 Yeah, don't do that. 184 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:09.839 Well, you may be able to hear, dear listener. 185 00:08:09.899 --> 00:08:12.540 My voice is still a couple of octaves deeper from shock. 186 00:08:12.600 --> 00:08:16.860 But when they got out of those ducks the 1st time, I was palpably 187 00:08:16.860 --> 00:08:19.800 relieved and then there's a bit of, look, beneath your feet and 188 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:22.439 it's like, oh, no, they're going back in the ducks again, because 189 00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:25.199 you get that amazing bit when they get out of the ducks, where 190 00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:28.379 Tegan punches a computer into submission. 191 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:29.939 Can we just have a moment? 192 00:08:30.180 --> 00:08:34.259 You know, it's utterly stupid, but when you read it in a certain 193 00:08:34.259 --> 00:08:38.700 way that Tegan is, as Janet Fielding puts it, Lucy in space, Lucy 194 00:08:38.700 --> 00:08:41.100 from Peanuts in space. absolutely. 195 00:08:41.159 --> 00:08:44.220 She is going to punch a computer into doing what she wants. 196 00:08:44.279 --> 00:08:47.279 Pete does a fair amount of that to the TARDIS, so she may have 197 00:08:47.279 --> 00:08:48.899 picked that up from him, I think. 198 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:50.820 She's so good in this. 199 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:54.419 I'm going to turn this into the sort of Tegan fan cast for a 200 00:08:54.419 --> 00:08:54.659 second. 201 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:59.639 I really am enjoying her performance enormously in season 20. 202 00:08:59.940 --> 00:09:00.600 Yes. 203 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:03.659 And there are a few scenes that I think are analogues of the 204 00:09:03.659 --> 00:09:08.519 absolute Nadir of her performance, which is panicky idiot Tegan in 205 00:09:08.519 --> 00:09:12.360 the TARDIS in Four to Doomsday, where the character is just being 206 00:09:12.360 --> 00:09:17.100 hugely unimpressive and where Janet is bringing her worst panto 207 00:09:17.100 --> 00:09:18.899 acting to bear on the show. 208 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:22.379 And here, you know, she is in a similar situation where she's got 209 00:09:22.379 --> 00:09:26.519 to stop the liner from leaving in episode four, but she's kind of 210 00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:28.980 she's a little bit panicky, but she's kind of self-possessed. 211 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:32.700 She's still a bit kind of bolshy, but she's a little bit 212 00:09:32.700 --> 00:09:33.419 vulnerable. 213 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:36.480 Um, she gets some really nice acting in. 214 00:09:36.539 --> 00:09:40.799 I love, there's a bit where Turlow says that he's so unfit and she 215 00:09:40.799 --> 00:09:41.580 laughs at him. 216 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:43.320 Yeah, it's very sweet. 217 00:09:43.379 --> 00:09:46.799 Yeah, there's that little bit where that he's talking about could 218 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:51.539 you kill someone, which is kind of, you know, like a stoned dorm 219 00:09:51.539 --> 00:09:55.559 room at 3 AM kind of conversational topic, isn't it? 220 00:09:55.620 --> 00:09:58.200 But it works really well. 221 00:09:58.259 --> 00:10:00.539 Even though it's a kind of stupid scene. 222 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:03.179 I really, really like her performance. 223 00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:03.779 What? 224 00:10:03.779 --> 00:10:04.620 I particularly love them. 225 00:10:04.679 --> 00:10:08.039 What I think Janet shows this season, is, you know, everyone kind 226 00:10:08.039 --> 00:10:12.240 of quotes with Elizabeth Sladen, Barry Lett says that she could be 227 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:13.679 scared and braid at the same time. 228 00:10:14.100 --> 00:10:20.879 Season 20, Tegan, and season 21 can be suspicious of Turlow, but a 229 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:22.440 warm character at the same time. 230 00:10:22.500 --> 00:10:26.340 She's portraying multiple emotions at once, which are like, so 231 00:10:26.340 --> 00:10:29.519 when she, you know, when she laughs with him, like, oh, and so 232 00:10:29.519 --> 00:10:30.120 unfit. 233 00:10:30.179 --> 00:10:31.860 She hasn't lost her distrust of him. 234 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:32.340 No. 235 00:10:32.340 --> 00:10:37.980 But in that moment, they're in the situation together, you know 236 00:10:37.980 --> 00:10:38.940 that kind of thing. 237 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:40.500 So it's not. 238 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:44.940 It's not like she is just performing it on one level. 239 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:47.340 You know, in the script, I don't trust her, like, they will feel I 240 00:10:47.340 --> 00:10:49.019 will play every scene like I don't trust her. 241 00:10:49.080 --> 00:10:50.460 No, she's playing it like a real human being. 242 00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:55.259 In real life, it's incredibly hard to hold a grudge against a 243 00:10:55.259 --> 00:10:57.000 person all the time. 244 00:10:57.059 --> 00:11:00.720 If you if you then see them doing something human and fallible. 245 00:11:00.779 --> 00:11:05.759 You feel, you feel, even if it's momentary, you feel some empathy 246 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:06.480 with that situation. 247 00:11:06.539 --> 00:11:09.960 You're just saying that because you're incredibly sweet, Brendan 248 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:10.200 really. 249 00:11:10.259 --> 00:11:14.100 The rest of us hold grudges, like, absolute Olympic marathon. 250 00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:17.340 The thing is, look, I have grudges in my life, but each of those 251 00:11:17.340 --> 00:11:20.460 people, I can think of a time when I've realised, actually, you 252 00:11:20.460 --> 00:11:23.580 know, you are just a person and you are a combination of good 253 00:11:23.580 --> 00:11:25.139 things and bad things just like the rest of us. 254 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:28.740 And I think that is what Janet brings to this. 255 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:31.980 Have you noticed, though, just to just to bring down the level a 256 00:11:31.980 --> 00:11:32.159 bit. 257 00:11:32.220 --> 00:11:34.379 Tegan and Turlo have the same haircut. 258 00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:37.679 They've even got the spiky bit at the crown. 259 00:11:37.740 --> 00:11:38.399 Have a look. 260 00:11:38.519 --> 00:11:41.580 I think Janet wears it better to be honest with you. 261 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:44.759 Do you know, the other thing, have you noticed, is we're talking 262 00:11:44.759 --> 00:11:48.480 about Tegan and Turlo crawling around in the dark, not the other 2 263 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:49.440 plot threads? 264 00:11:49.500 --> 00:11:52.019 Well, yeah. 265 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:54.120 I think this might be a good time to talk about the production 266 00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:55.259 difficulties with this story. 267 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:55.980 Okay. 268 00:11:55.980 --> 00:12:02.460 So, um, it was envisioned as an all studio production with uh, the 269 00:12:02.460 --> 00:12:06.360 traditional 2 days of 3 blocks, of 6 shooting days. 270 00:12:06.419 --> 00:12:09.179 And then due to industrial action, they lost one shooting day 271 00:12:09.179 --> 00:12:12.240 which is why we end up at Ealing for the scenes in the ducks 272 00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:17.759 because JNT came to the director Mary Ridge and said, I secured 273 00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:20.220 you a filming day and she went, well, I'll do the stuff in the 274 00:12:20.220 --> 00:12:22.620 ducks there because they need to climb down, climb up, et cetera 275 00:12:22.620 --> 00:12:23.039 et cetera. 276 00:12:23.100 --> 00:12:27.419 Mary Ridge, of course, was hired because she had helmed half the 277 00:12:27.419 --> 00:12:32.759 episodes of series D of Blake 7 or series 4 to the people who use 278 00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:34.620 you know, proper counting methods. 279 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:38.159 Um, and JNT had been really impressed by her work on that. 280 00:12:38.700 --> 00:12:43.320 Due to industrial action, they then lost another studio day. 281 00:12:43.379 --> 00:12:47.159 So they were down to 4 studio days from six. 282 00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:51.600 And Mary Ridge redid our shooting scripts and said to John Nathan 283 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:54.539 Turner, look, if you can get me an extra hour on the last studio 284 00:12:54.539 --> 00:12:55.980 day, I can get everything done. 285 00:12:56.100 --> 00:12:58.679 And he said, okay, fine, you've got your extra hour. 286 00:12:58.740 --> 00:13:03.899 So this is, of course, BBC studios, lights usually go off at 10 287 00:13:03.899 --> 00:13:05.759 unless you get approval from everyone. 288 00:13:05.820 --> 00:13:10.500 The gaffer lighting director, absolutely everyone on the studio 289 00:13:10.500 --> 00:13:13.500 floor to work that extra hour at 945. 290 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:16.620 Mary Ridge had 25 shots left to do. 291 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:18.539 So 25 shots in 75 minutes. 292 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:21.299 That includes set up getting the actors in position, quick 293 00:13:21.299 --> 00:13:22.200 rehearsal and go. 294 00:13:22.259 --> 00:13:24.840 She was confident she could get that done by 11. 295 00:13:25.019 --> 00:13:28.919 At 9.45 p.m. on the last studio day, JNT was up in the gallery 296 00:13:28.919 --> 00:13:30.779 with her and said you don't have the extra hour. 297 00:13:31.740 --> 00:13:35.460 So, and she said, well, look, we're going to have to do pickups at 298 00:13:35.460 --> 00:13:36.360 some point. he said yeah, fine. 299 00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:41.399 So she decided, Okay, Quicksticks was the most important scene. 300 00:13:41.460 --> 00:13:43.740 So she did a few more scenes and she did Niss's leaving soon. 301 00:13:44.220 --> 00:13:47.460 But she said, we'll do it on the Tartar set. 302 00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:52.139 And Peter and Sarah down on the floor are just saying, that makes 303 00:13:52.139 --> 00:13:52.620 no sense. 304 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:55.679 Why would she come back to the Tartars to leave the Tartars with 305 00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:59.279 an inter- um stable and Mary is like, we don't have time for 306 00:13:59.279 --> 00:13:59.580 this? 307 00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:02.639 Just get on the set and do it, so they weren't happy. 308 00:14:02.700 --> 00:14:03.720 No one was happy. 309 00:14:03.779 --> 00:14:08.039 And then as Nissa is saying in the console room, let us pass in 310 00:14:08.039 --> 00:14:08.580 good faith. 311 00:14:08.639 --> 00:14:09.539 The lights go out. 312 00:14:10.080 --> 00:14:13.980 Oh, so they did actually start shooting the farewell scene in 313 00:14:13.980 --> 00:14:14.399 the. 314 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:15.120 Yeah they did. 315 00:14:15.179 --> 00:14:19.379 And what then had to happen was a pickup day had to be arranged 316 00:14:19.379 --> 00:14:21.960 halfway through the filming of the king's demons. 317 00:14:22.139 --> 00:14:26.700 So everyone went off to the after party after the original shoot 318 00:14:26.700 --> 00:14:28.379 except for Mary Ridge because she was furious. 319 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:29.460 Yeah. 320 00:14:29.460 --> 00:14:31.740 Like, JNT went to the after party. 321 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:33.480 Did she ever work on it again? 322 00:14:33.539 --> 00:14:36.720 No, no, no, she well, I don't know if she was ever asked back, but 323 00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:38.759 she did say that she wouldn't, even if she was. 324 00:14:38.820 --> 00:14:45.720 But so, uh, a few scenes in the ship's uh, bridge and the leaving 325 00:14:45.720 --> 00:14:49.320 scene in the ship's corridor, and I think one or 2 Tartar scenes 326 00:14:49.320 --> 00:14:50.580 were recorded on that pickup day. 327 00:14:50.700 --> 00:14:54.059 So they only have the liner set for that. 328 00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:55.860 And the TARDIS, obviously. 329 00:14:55.919 --> 00:15:00.899 Yeah, but also for the existing 2nd studio run, they had to put in 330 00:15:00.899 --> 00:15:02.460 the liner sets as well. 331 00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:04.620 And that's why Peter and Janet were. 332 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:05.759 So like, this doesn't make sense. 333 00:15:05.820 --> 00:15:06.960 Can't we just record it? 334 00:15:07.019 --> 00:15:08.220 It makes more sense to record it over there. 335 00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:08.759 We're here. 336 00:15:08.820 --> 00:15:09.419 We're right here. 337 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:11.220 So they had to put up the set again. 338 00:15:11.279 --> 00:15:14.639 But 2 particularly notable shots that were recorded in that 2nd 339 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:15.000 block. 340 00:15:15.059 --> 00:15:18.179 There's that bit where they figure out the route back to where 341 00:15:18.179 --> 00:15:22.200 they think the TARDIS is and Nissa pulls out like a one centimetre 342 00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:24.360 thick piece of paper and says, this is a map of the ship. 343 00:15:24.419 --> 00:15:25.620 That's terrible. 344 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:27.419 It looks like it came out of canines now. 345 00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:28.980 That printout. 346 00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:31.259 Well, that close-up of Sarah Sutton. 347 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:33.480 The close-up in particular is pretty well shot. 348 00:15:33.539 --> 00:15:34.259 That was a pickup. 349 00:15:34.679 --> 00:15:40.080 And also, um, one of the veneer, the rather cute veneer who comes 350 00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:41.940 into the bridge to get the hydromel. 351 00:15:42.000 --> 00:15:43.019 Sigurd. 352 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:46.320 Yeah, Sigurd, the bittersweet taste of life. 353 00:15:46.379 --> 00:15:47.460 That was a pickup. 354 00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:49.080 So they didn't just have to get the regulars back. 355 00:15:49.139 --> 00:15:50.759 They had to get some of the guest casts back. 356 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:53.700 Well, and they have to get Sarah Sutton back after she's... 357 00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:54.299 Yeah, exactly. 358 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:57.720 And apparently the after party was just pretty much the 4 red 359 00:15:57.720 --> 00:15:59.519 girls sitting around going, well, you're going to be back in a 360 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:00.120 month anyway. 361 00:16:00.179 --> 00:16:01.620 Why are we, why are we here? 362 00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:05.820 Yeah, but okay, that's all well and good and all those problems 363 00:16:05.820 --> 00:16:08.700 but it still doesn't excuse the fact that I think that this is 364 00:16:08.700 --> 00:16:09.000 boring. 365 00:16:09.059 --> 00:16:12.299 Yeah, I mean, they were pretty horrific production problems on 366 00:16:12.299 --> 00:16:16.259 season 17, but at least it manages to be funny and entertaining. 367 00:16:16.320 --> 00:16:16.860 Yeah. 368 00:16:16.860 --> 00:16:20.460 Can we talk about the plot with Nyssa? 369 00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:21.659 Yeah. 370 00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:26.940 So this 2nd plot with Nissa, I think is insulting and really 371 00:16:26.940 --> 00:16:28.860 really unpleasant to watch. 372 00:16:28.980 --> 00:16:33.960 And so she gets Laza's disease or they call it the Laza disease or 373 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:36.899 something like that, which means she gets a little bit of kind of 374 00:16:36.899 --> 00:16:38.039 makeup on and stuff. 375 00:16:38.100 --> 00:16:41.039 And then she just spends the entire time being pushed around and 376 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:42.360 going, no, no, no. 377 00:16:42.419 --> 00:16:45.419 And then she gets chained up and then they pull her down and then 378 00:16:45.419 --> 00:16:48.600 they chain her up again and they take her from place to place. 379 00:16:48.659 --> 00:16:51.960 She does get to hit Jarvik. 380 00:16:52.019 --> 00:16:52.980 What's his name in this? 381 00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:55.139 his Val guard, his guard. 382 00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:55.740 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 383 00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:57.240 Yeah, she gets to clobber somewhat. 384 00:16:57.299 --> 00:16:57.840 Yeah, yeah. 385 00:16:57.899 --> 00:16:58.860 She's good at that. 386 00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:01.919 That's the one moment of agency that she gets. 387 00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:05.339 And the rest of the time she's just a pathetic victim. 388 00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:06.299 Yeah, yeah. 389 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:09.900 I really dislike what she doesn't get to do in this story. 390 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:13.500 She gets a moment of, oh, when she's affected and no one sees a la 391 00:17:13.500 --> 00:17:15.599 Barbara back in Planet of the Giants. 392 00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:20.099 She gets to scream like one of her big screams this season at that 393 00:17:20.099 --> 00:17:21.420 dog thing. 394 00:17:21.420 --> 00:17:24.539 And it's like, it's like she does a great screen, but it's like 395 00:17:24.539 --> 00:17:25.619 I'm not scared. 396 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:27.480 Why would she be scared, you know? 397 00:17:27.539 --> 00:17:30.359 And I just, you know, she takes off her skirt, she's wearing 398 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:32.220 lingerie for no apparent reason. 399 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:35.700 I just think it's, it's such a shame, like this is her last story 400 00:17:35.700 --> 00:17:37.920 and I just don't think she gets really to shine. 401 00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:43.920 It would have been so easy to give her the chance to shine towards 402 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:46.079 the end of episode 4 where they're kind of wrapping it up. 403 00:17:46.140 --> 00:17:50.039 She says I can synthesise hydromel and she was synthesising an 404 00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:51.480 enzyme in episode one. 405 00:17:51.539 --> 00:17:52.200 Yeah, yeah. 406 00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:53.160 So they do set that up. 407 00:17:53.220 --> 00:17:57.059 Why not get her to make the cure work? 408 00:17:57.119 --> 00:17:58.079 Why not? 409 00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:01.319 Because it doesn't kind of make sense that most people are cured. 410 00:18:01.380 --> 00:18:03.960 That's what JoJo says. 411 00:18:04.019 --> 00:18:07.500 He says that most people actually do get cured, but that doesn't 412 00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:08.400 make sense from what we know. 413 00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:12.240 And no one seems to know about a ship that takes the people who 414 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:13.380 have been cured away. 415 00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:14.339 Yeah, yeah. 416 00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:16.920 So she just gets cured by pure lottery. 417 00:18:16.980 --> 00:18:21.960 Why can't she, with her knowledge of telebiogenesis, which she's 418 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:22.559 been working on? 419 00:18:22.619 --> 00:18:27.420 Last chance to see. working on that for some time. 420 00:18:27.480 --> 00:18:30.480 Why couldn't she use that knowledge, you know, order to make the 421 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:32.940 cure work so that she gets a hero moment? 422 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:37.259 And, you know, why, for instance, why does she even have to get 423 00:18:37.259 --> 00:18:37.799 the disease? 424 00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:40.440 You know, she could be brought onto terminus? 425 00:18:40.500 --> 00:18:42.420 And then they suddenly go, hold on, you don't have the disease. 426 00:18:42.420 --> 00:18:43.980 And she could say, what disease? 427 00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:44.940 Let me investigate this for you. 428 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:47.640 You know, she doesn't have to be pushed from pillar to post. 429 00:18:47.819 --> 00:18:52.559 Stephen Gallagher has this idea, it would seem if a companion has 430 00:18:52.559 --> 00:18:54.960 to leave because he's given the responsibility twice to make 431 00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:55.799 companions leave. 432 00:18:55.859 --> 00:18:59.519 If a companion has to leave, they have to have some moral duty to 433 00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:00.119 go on to. 434 00:19:00.180 --> 00:19:06.779 So Romano goes on to free the slaves, and Nissa leaves to cure 435 00:19:06.779 --> 00:19:08.220 this disease. 436 00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:11.880 Yeah, but when that happens with Romana, Romana discovers that 437 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:16.079 situation by going among the people she's going to help. and 438 00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:16.980 hearing their story. 439 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:21.359 Whereas, okay, yeah, Nissa goes among the people she's trying to 440 00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:21.660 help. 441 00:19:21.660 --> 00:19:24.779 But, again, there's no agency. 442 00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:25.380 There's no choice. 443 00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:27.900 But she doesn't know that she's trying to help them until she's 444 00:19:27.900 --> 00:19:28.259 cured. 445 00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:29.220 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 446 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:29.819 Exactly, exactly. 447 00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:31.559 No, it's terrible. isn't it? 448 00:19:31.619 --> 00:19:34.380 And this time around when I was watching it, that bit where she's 449 00:19:34.380 --> 00:19:37.200 taken away from cure and she says, no, there are others worse than 450 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:37.440 me. 451 00:19:37.500 --> 00:19:40.740 It's like, okay, that comes across as her saying, no, don't put me 452 00:19:40.740 --> 00:19:41.819 in the radiation chamber. 453 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:43.319 Put them in the radiation chamber. 454 00:19:43.380 --> 00:19:45.660 It's a, I think they're not going for that. 455 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:48.779 They're going for the fact that she's saying, no, help other 456 00:19:48.779 --> 00:19:50.579 people. triage, help other people first. 457 00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:52.440 But it doesn't quite come across that way. 458 00:19:52.500 --> 00:19:54.000 And I don't think it's Sarah Sutton's fault. 459 00:19:54.059 --> 00:19:55.740 I mean, they are doing triage. 460 00:19:55.799 --> 00:19:59.160 They're curing people who are likely to be curable. 461 00:19:59.220 --> 00:20:03.119 Obviously one at a time because that's all the gum can do. 462 00:20:03.180 --> 00:20:05.519 Like, I mean, I just think Nissu is so pathetic in this. 463 00:20:05.579 --> 00:20:07.140 Like even when she's going, oh, please listen. 464 00:20:07.200 --> 00:20:09.900 It's sort of like, I just want that Nissa back from Arc of 465 00:20:09.900 --> 00:20:10.920 Infinity, you know? 466 00:20:11.339 --> 00:20:13.200 Or even keeper of Tracan. 467 00:20:13.259 --> 00:20:17.099 Well, you know, it's Johnny Byrne, writing for the character he 468 00:20:17.099 --> 00:20:17.519 created. 469 00:20:17.579 --> 00:20:17.819 Yeah. 470 00:20:17.940 --> 00:20:20.460 I'm conflicted with her departure. 471 00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:22.259 Part of me wants, she's been through so much. 472 00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:24.480 You know, her whole planet is gone. 473 00:20:24.539 --> 00:20:25.619 She's got no one. 474 00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:28.680 Part of me wants her to find true love and be married off. 475 00:20:28.859 --> 00:20:30.599 I mean, I've been talking about that all season. 476 00:20:30.660 --> 00:20:34.680 Instead, she gets this life that's going to be hard, but it does 477 00:20:34.680 --> 00:20:38.579 work for her, like, been this noble from Trunk, and there's a 478 00:20:38.579 --> 00:20:42.059 through line there, I think, that actually it's actually like, in 479 00:20:42.059 --> 00:20:45.059 the end, a really good thing, but I just seeing it sort of like, I 480 00:20:45.059 --> 00:20:46.079 just wanted something more happier. 481 00:20:46.140 --> 00:20:49.319 Yeah, I don't want her to spend the rest of her life around those 482 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:50.279 dismal sets. 483 00:20:50.339 --> 00:20:53.460 It is... grim and horrible. 484 00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:57.599 And, you know, we complained about the look in season 17, how it 485 00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:01.740 was tired and and it was space corridors and on spaceships that 486 00:21:01.740 --> 00:21:02.819 all tended to look the same. 487 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:07.440 And now the JNT era has reached that point where it is just boring 488 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:09.420 space corridors that all look the same. 489 00:21:09.480 --> 00:21:10.740 The skulls are good I suppose. 490 00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:12.299 I like the skulls appearing. 491 00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:15.000 I like it when Tegan gets attacked by all the hands, you know, but 492 00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:15.900 they're so scary. 493 00:21:16.019 --> 00:21:18.059 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 1st episode is terrifying. 494 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:19.799 Yeah, the TARDIS breaking up. 495 00:21:19.859 --> 00:21:22.259 It's proper horror sci-fi, that 1st episode. 496 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:25.680 And you kind of get the impression that this is when Mary Ridge 497 00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:26.640 thought she'd have more time. 498 00:21:26.700 --> 00:21:29.279 You know, so there's a lot of care put into episode one. 499 00:21:29.339 --> 00:21:34.440 There's some horrifying haircuts that come into episode one. 500 00:21:34.500 --> 00:21:36.299 It's very 80s, isn't it? 501 00:21:36.359 --> 00:21:39.539 This is as 80s as the show ever looks, I think, with Kari and 502 00:21:39.539 --> 00:21:40.140 Olvir. 503 00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:41.940 Yeah, can we talk about Lisa Goddard? 504 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:43.680 Lisa Skippy Goddard? 505 00:21:43.859 --> 00:21:49.859 And those helmets and they have great boots and like capes and 506 00:21:49.859 --> 00:21:50.039 stuff. 507 00:21:50.099 --> 00:21:52.619 So they're clearly meant to be, well, they're raiders, aren't 508 00:21:52.619 --> 00:21:52.740 they? 509 00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:56.099 They're called Raiders, but they're terribly posh for kind of 510 00:21:56.099 --> 00:21:59.940 space pirates and they both have terribly posh accents. 511 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:01.799 Well, there's been a galactic recession. 512 00:22:01.859 --> 00:22:04.680 So it's kind of like in Planet of the Dead when Lady Christine 513 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:08.220 D'Souza is robbing museums, you know, they are actually from very 514 00:22:08.220 --> 00:22:10.980 well off families, but there's been a recession, so they're 515 00:22:10.980 --> 00:22:11.880 robbing stuff. 516 00:22:11.940 --> 00:22:15.180 I was absolutely in love with her in Skippy and there was a 517 00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:21.779 terrible sitcom called Yes, honestly, I think. sometime in the 70s 518 00:22:21.779 --> 00:22:22.559 or 80s. 519 00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:26.339 And I have only very vague memories of it, but she, she was the 520 00:22:26.339 --> 00:22:29.099 female lead and the characters used to do monologues to camera 521 00:22:29.099 --> 00:22:32.099 maybe at the beginning and the end and I just adored her. 522 00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:35.099 I'm sure if I saw it now, I would find her, you know, unendurably 523 00:22:35.099 --> 00:22:39.420 irritating, but I just think she's terrific and I love her in 524 00:22:39.420 --> 00:22:39.539 this. 525 00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:43.619 And it is another one of these things that you complain about, Todd 526 00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:47.279 where we sideline the companions and have, you know, a pseudo 527 00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:49.619 companion for the doctor for this story. 528 00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:52.799 No, I mean, I think she's good. 529 00:22:52.859 --> 00:22:54.180 The memory cheats. 530 00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:56.400 I actually thought her and what's his name? 531 00:22:56.460 --> 00:22:57.480 Oh, there. 532 00:22:57.480 --> 00:22:58.079 Oh, there. 533 00:22:58.140 --> 00:22:59.160 I actually thought they got killed off. 534 00:22:59.220 --> 00:23:02.460 So I actually sat watching this going. 535 00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:03.720 They die now. 536 00:23:03.779 --> 00:23:04.619 When did they die? 537 00:23:04.740 --> 00:23:05.339 When do they die? 538 00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:07.440 Like, I kept going, again, die, he's going to get killed now at 539 00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:08.940 the end of this episode, she's going to die. 540 00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:10.140 I don't know why. 541 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:13.019 I must be confusing it with a Blake 7 where there's some raiders 542 00:23:13.019 --> 00:23:15.720 coming in when somebody dies but I just sat there the whole time 543 00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:16.859 waiting for them to be killed off. 544 00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:18.900 That would make her quite enjoyable, actually. 545 00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:21.420 And speaking of who actually dies. 546 00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:22.859 Who dies? 547 00:23:22.920 --> 00:23:23.880 Yeah, no one does. 548 00:23:23.940 --> 00:23:24.539 No one dies. 549 00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:25.500 It's another. 550 00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:26.700 We've got no deaths. 551 00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:29.640 It's a disease thing which should be killing people, but no one 552 00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:30.000 dies. 553 00:23:30.059 --> 00:23:33.359 I am going insane that nobody is dying. 554 00:23:33.420 --> 00:23:37.259 I'm getting really, really frightened sitting opposite you right 555 00:23:37.259 --> 00:23:38.160 now, Tosh. 556 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:42.539 But I'm just saying, like, there's this peril, but it's not there 557 00:23:42.539 --> 00:23:44.759 on the screen for me to be seen, you know? 558 00:23:44.819 --> 00:23:47.460 And I had the same problem with snake dance last week. 559 00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:50.400 The only people that died were the people that wanted to die, you 560 00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:50.640 know? 561 00:23:50.700 --> 00:23:52.619 just driving me mad. 562 00:23:52.680 --> 00:23:58.200 The corridors, the non-dest, these, these, no monsters, although 563 00:23:58.200 --> 00:24:01.259 if we get the monsters, they're not really that terrifying. 564 00:24:01.380 --> 00:24:03.839 Jojo, the dog face boy is pretty terrifying. 565 00:24:04.140 --> 00:24:07.259 You know, well, if you're going to have a story where no one dies 566 00:24:07.259 --> 00:24:07.799 that's fine. 567 00:24:07.859 --> 00:24:10.019 But it would be nice if someone said at the end, hey, you know 568 00:24:10.019 --> 00:24:13.740 unlike every other day we come to work, no one's died today. 569 00:24:13.799 --> 00:24:18.660 You know, put up that side one day since we've had one day, we've 570 00:24:18.660 --> 00:24:20.339 landed somewhere and not killed someone doctor. 571 00:24:20.460 --> 00:24:23.640 Yeah, I don't mind it, like if it was like one story per season 572 00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:26.160 because then, you know, but it just seems to be this run of 573 00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:27.539 not... 574 00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:29.460 And then there's the veneer. 575 00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:31.440 I don't remember any of their names. 576 00:24:31.500 --> 00:24:32.099 I don't. 577 00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:32.819 No, no. 578 00:24:32.880 --> 00:24:35.700 I mean, I do like the last 10 minutes of the story. 579 00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:38.579 I like the last 10 minutes when the Doctor Funny Meats everybody 580 00:24:38.579 --> 00:24:39.779 and they start working together. 581 00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:42.059 It's sort of like, well, this is the start of the story for me. 582 00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:42.900 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 583 00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:45.180 I actually went, oh, oh, this is what I want. 584 00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:47.400 They're going to work against the company and, you know, we could 585 00:24:47.400 --> 00:24:50.880 actually have a situation like in that's Robert Holmes classic, the 586 00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:51.420 Sunmakers. 587 00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:51.960 Yeah. 588 00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:54.059 But I just feel like it's all just... 589 00:24:54.059 --> 00:24:57.960 We don't see it and just infuriates me. 590 00:24:58.019 --> 00:24:59.700 I think that this is a problem and it's going to become 591 00:24:59.700 --> 00:25:00.720 increasingly a problem. 592 00:25:00.779 --> 00:25:04.259 And I remember noticing it when Colin Baker was the doctor the 1st 593 00:25:04.259 --> 00:25:07.980 time through, is what the show is doing now increasingly, is 594 00:25:07.980 --> 00:25:12.660 setting up a high concept location, dumping the doctor and his 595 00:25:12.660 --> 00:25:16.920 companions in it, and they just wander around it and then it all 596 00:25:16.920 --> 00:25:18.599 gets resolved in 10 minutes at the end. 597 00:25:18.660 --> 00:25:22.500 And the usual wandering around or being captured and escaping or 598 00:25:22.500 --> 00:25:25.259 just the story doesn't tend to develop. 599 00:25:25.319 --> 00:25:28.500 Nothing new happens, that changes the game. 600 00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:30.720 And I think that that's a problem. 601 00:25:30.779 --> 00:25:34.500 And so the bit at the end is good because there's some kind of 602 00:25:34.500 --> 00:25:37.559 development that's changing the premise and making it more 603 00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:38.099 interesting. 604 00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:42.000 And, you know, they see the, the, um, they see the power struggle 605 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:45.539 between Valgard and ELEC or whatever the hell he's called. 606 00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:46.859 I can't remember his name. 607 00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:48.059 Um, um, I rec. 608 00:25:48.119 --> 00:25:49.259 This is like a train wreck. 609 00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:50.519 Eric. 610 00:25:50.519 --> 00:25:51.299 Eric, that's it. 611 00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:52.500 He's scary looking too. 612 00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:53.700 He's scary looking. 613 00:25:53.700 --> 00:25:56.640 And he's a little action figure on his on his hat, which is 614 00:25:56.640 --> 00:25:56.880 sweet. 615 00:25:56.940 --> 00:25:58.920 He's camp and he's a bit arch. 616 00:25:58.980 --> 00:26:00.960 You know, there's actually a bit of menace coming from him. 617 00:26:01.019 --> 00:26:01.619 Yeah. 618 00:26:01.619 --> 00:26:04.980 Maybe it's just the menace that you worry that he's going to put 619 00:26:04.980 --> 00:26:05.880 something in your drink. 620 00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:07.980 Yes, exactly. 621 00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:13.380 And like boar, I think, it's a nice performance and he is sweet 622 00:26:13.380 --> 00:26:16.980 but there's just too much of it and it doesn't really go 623 00:26:16.980 --> 00:26:17.339 anywhere. 624 00:26:17.400 --> 00:26:20.579 So he's the one who gets burnt and then delivers all the 625 00:26:20.579 --> 00:26:21.180 exposition. 626 00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:24.420 Like, I just, I remember watching it the 1st time through just 627 00:26:24.420 --> 00:26:26.700 going, I don't care about you. 628 00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:27.480 Just dine. 629 00:26:27.539 --> 00:26:29.160 And the other one who's trying to kill them off. 630 00:26:29.220 --> 00:26:31.500 And like, I think all the performances are fine. 631 00:26:31.559 --> 00:26:33.960 Like I don't think anybody gives a really terrible performance in 632 00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:34.140 this. 633 00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:35.039 Yeah, yeah. 634 00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:37.500 But I just don't care enough. 635 00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:39.660 I'm just sit there going, I just want this over. 636 00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:42.539 It's like all the character subplots were coming into a 637 00:26:42.539 --> 00:26:45.420 conversation halfway through and we're having to play catch up. 638 00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:49.799 Like with Boh, when we 1st meet Boh, He's muttering and slightly 639 00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:50.099 mad. 640 00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:54.180 You know, if we'd met him and he was explaining to someone what he 641 00:26:54.180 --> 00:26:57.119 was going to do because all he says, all he says the 1st time we 642 00:26:57.119 --> 00:26:59.339 see him is, the readings are too high. 643 00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:00.359 Well, what readings? 644 00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:02.640 Why is there being too high a problem? 645 00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:04.559 What is in the dangers zone? 646 00:27:04.619 --> 00:27:08.759 A forbidden zone, which has a tape across the floor and we're on 647 00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:10.079 one side and we're fine. 648 00:27:10.140 --> 00:27:12.119 Walk across the tape and we're going to die. 649 00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:14.519 It's like when you used to have smoking sections in restaurants. 650 00:27:14.579 --> 00:27:16.019 Yeah, you're all planes. 651 00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:20.160 It's a little bit like the radiation that's pouring out of the 652 00:27:20.160 --> 00:27:25.920 engine thing that prevents Olvair from moving an inch closer to 653 00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:27.059 pick up his gun. 654 00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:29.460 You know, it's all very silly. 655 00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:31.319 But he doesn't even seem to get taken off. 656 00:27:31.380 --> 00:27:33.299 Like, I mean, talk about peripheral vision. 657 00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:37.500 Yeah, at, oh, I mean, I don't, I think Dominic Guard mostly gives 658 00:27:37.500 --> 00:27:38.099 a good performance. 659 00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:40.380 I don't have a problem with his episode one cliffhanger. 660 00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:42.119 No, no, I think that's great. 661 00:27:42.180 --> 00:27:44.700 You know, we're all going to die. 662 00:27:44.759 --> 00:27:47.039 It's actually one of the few moments where someone gets 663 00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:49.680 cliffhanger dialogue and I think pitches it exactly right. 664 00:27:49.740 --> 00:27:52.799 And it's still a crash zoom of the doctor's face. 665 00:27:52.859 --> 00:27:57.000 But I do think Dominic Guard is terrible in that scene when Nessa 666 00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:59.940 gets taken, it turns around, oh, no, Nessa. 667 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:02.039 It's like what the hell? 668 00:28:02.099 --> 00:28:04.619 Why do we have to have a crash zoom on Peter Davis's face? 669 00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:09.539 He's, he is a great actor and I really like him as the doctor the 670 00:28:09.539 --> 00:28:12.839 more I watch this, but the one criticism I have of his performance 671 00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:17.039 is his resting cliffhanger phase, where he has, he shows 672 00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:20.640 absolutely no emotion at all during the cliffhangers most of the 673 00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:22.559 time. and it's really undramatic. 674 00:28:22.619 --> 00:28:24.660 And I think it's something that Colin does better. 675 00:28:24.720 --> 00:28:29.339 You know, where the camera zooms up his nose in, uh, Trial of a 676 00:28:29.339 --> 00:28:29.700 time? 677 00:28:29.759 --> 00:28:31.859 Yeah, yeah. over and over again. 678 00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:36.359 Again, he's got, but at least he's performing, whereas, whereas we 679 00:28:36.359 --> 00:28:39.359 do get, yeah, I'm going to call it resting cliffhanger face, that's 680 00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:40.079 my new trobe. 681 00:28:40.140 --> 00:28:42.900 Look, I just think the doctor, I'm not going to disagree that I 682 00:28:42.900 --> 00:28:44.880 think that Peter Davidson is a good actor. 683 00:28:44.940 --> 00:28:47.039 But what he's got to work with. 684 00:28:47.099 --> 00:28:49.619 He's got to just make gold out of mud. 685 00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:53.460 And in this, I just, you know, we haven't talked about it. 686 00:28:53.519 --> 00:28:55.140 You know what I'm saying? 687 00:28:55.259 --> 00:28:56.700 Yeah, yeah, yeah, in the background. 688 00:28:56.700 --> 00:28:57.180 He's just there. 689 00:28:57.240 --> 00:28:58.559 He's just there. you know? 690 00:28:58.619 --> 00:29:01.200 And yes, he's got scenes where it's all tension and, you know, the 691 00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:05.579 levers, you know, going to explode, is going to get, Zero and he 692 00:29:05.579 --> 00:29:08.460 gets to do all of his little, you know, moment acting that you've 693 00:29:08.460 --> 00:29:12.059 mentioned before, but it's still like, yeah, we'll say would likes 694 00:29:12.059 --> 00:29:13.019 to put him in the background. 695 00:29:13.380 --> 00:29:16.740 And Collins performance is big enough to overcome that. 696 00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:21.059 I mean, he's still doing that to the doctor in season 22. 697 00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:25.559 But because Colin is a bit more look at me than Pete is, he can 698 00:29:25.559 --> 00:29:26.700 kind of overcome it a bit. 699 00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:28.920 Well, in terms of cliffhangers, you know, there are documentaries 700 00:29:28.920 --> 00:29:31.500 where Peter Davidson talks about cliffhanger acting and how he 701 00:29:31.500 --> 00:29:32.819 finds it mildly embarrassing. 702 00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:35.460 When Colin Baker talks about Cliffhanger acting, he says something 703 00:29:35.460 --> 00:29:38.339 on the lines off, the thing is with Cliffhanger acting, you know 704 00:29:38.339 --> 00:29:41.640 ordinarily if a character discovers something bad, they'll say, oh 705 00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:47.519 no, Cliffhanger acting is, oh, no, and titles. 706 00:29:47.579 --> 00:29:50.400 I think that's Collins acting generally, actually. 707 00:29:50.460 --> 00:29:54.779 The thing is, you know, that's the difference in the Colin, when 708 00:29:54.779 --> 00:29:55.380 we get to him. 709 00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:58.859 He seems to get that Doctor Who is not reality, Doctor Who is 710 00:29:58.859 --> 00:29:59.759 meant to be heightened. 711 00:29:59.819 --> 00:30:01.019 And I don't think Peter. 712 00:30:01.079 --> 00:30:04.440 I think Peter is, and this isn't a criticism. just an 713 00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:04.980 observation. 714 00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:08.460 I think he's trying to bring too much reality to an unreal 715 00:30:08.460 --> 00:30:08.940 situation. 716 00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:14.220 Do you know, I like him and I feel that he has a more definite 717 00:30:14.220 --> 00:30:15.599 character than I expected before. 718 00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:17.579 Yeah, me too. watching it. 719 00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:22.559 I really, really like his doctor and I can now, I've maybe, I've 720 00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:25.380 said this before, but I can now really appreciate that thing at 721 00:30:25.380 --> 00:30:29.160 the end of time crash where kind of both Moffatt and Tennant 722 00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:32.519 essentially, are saying you are my doctor. all these things that 723 00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:32.880 you do. 724 00:30:32.940 --> 00:30:36.839 And the running around thing in particular, which is something 725 00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:40.319 that I don't think the doctor's ever done before and I love it. 726 00:30:40.380 --> 00:30:43.920 I love Peter bounding through the sets at top speed. 727 00:30:43.980 --> 00:30:45.660 I love his breathlessness. 728 00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:46.680 I love his panic. 729 00:30:46.740 --> 00:30:50.339 He has a sort of trout-nesque way of working really well when he's 730 00:30:50.339 --> 00:30:50.940 panicked. 731 00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:52.859 There are all these things I adore about him. 732 00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:56.700 And something he does a lot more than I thought is the whole thing 733 00:30:56.700 --> 00:31:00.299 of coming to a fork and making this big deal of, I should go that 734 00:31:00.299 --> 00:31:01.500 way, but I want to go this way. 735 00:31:01.559 --> 00:31:03.660 Yeah, yeah. over and over again. 736 00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:06.299 But he makes it fresh every time. 737 00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:08.700 You know, it's it's like Tom and the jelly babies. 738 00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:11.099 Tom offering someone a jelly baby. never the same twice. 739 00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:12.000 Yeah. 740 00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:13.799 And Pete doing that whole thing. 741 00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:16.319 He does have this way of presenting. 742 00:31:16.380 --> 00:31:19.319 No, these are 2 completely new corridors, but I don't like that 743 00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:19.559 one. 744 00:31:19.619 --> 00:31:21.539 No, not bad. 745 00:31:21.779 --> 00:31:25.140 Yeah, I don't want people to think I hate this story. 746 00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:28.319 Certainly I think it is nowhere near as bad as Arc of Infinity. 747 00:31:28.380 --> 00:31:29.759 Oh, well, what is? 748 00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:33.359 I think because we have we have better ideas in this story. 749 00:31:33.420 --> 00:31:37.559 But the problem is we have 2 central, quite big ideas, this 750 00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:41.579 disease, this interplanetary interstellar disease, and the 751 00:31:41.579 --> 00:31:42.839 possible end of the universe. 752 00:31:42.900 --> 00:31:45.299 Neither of them are really fleshed out enough. 753 00:31:45.359 --> 00:31:46.140 No. 754 00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:48.900 Whereas, you know, Ark of Infinity barely had one idea. 755 00:31:49.019 --> 00:31:51.059 There are still things I like about this. 756 00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:54.059 I like ARAC, I like, I like Peter in it. 757 00:31:54.119 --> 00:31:57.660 Sarah Sutton is given terrible material. 758 00:31:57.720 --> 00:32:01.799 And I do have to wonder if maybe the direction is at fault as well 759 00:32:01.799 --> 00:32:04.980 because, you know, Stephen Gallagher wrote Warrior's Gate, for 760 00:32:04.980 --> 00:32:05.640 goodness sake. 761 00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:08.759 But then again, bit me did say he had a lot of a hand in writing 762 00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:09.180 that. 763 00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:12.299 So maybe Stephen Gallagher doesn't write scripts as well as we 764 00:32:12.299 --> 00:32:12.539 think. 765 00:32:12.599 --> 00:32:13.140 I don't know. 766 00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:14.819 Well, he didn't write the script. 767 00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:18.539 He wrote, he wrote like a novelisation, and then Bidmead had to 768 00:32:18.539 --> 00:32:20.039 then construct the script from that. 769 00:32:20.099 --> 00:32:21.960 So, you know, that is a difference. 770 00:32:22.019 --> 00:32:22.920 That is true. 771 00:32:22.980 --> 00:32:23.519 That is true. 772 00:32:23.579 --> 00:32:26.519 And that's something I'm not going to criticise Eric's A word 773 00:32:26.519 --> 00:32:26.759 for. 774 00:32:26.819 --> 00:32:29.519 It's not Eric Saywood's job to write a script from the ground up 775 00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:34.140 which he will do on a few occasions when writers don't quite come 776 00:32:34.140 --> 00:32:34.619 through. 777 00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:36.299 So I'm not going to criticise him for that. 778 00:32:36.359 --> 00:32:39.299 If that's the case, you know, he's done the best he can do and 779 00:32:39.299 --> 00:32:42.059 he's created a narrative that hangs together for 4 episodes. 780 00:32:42.119 --> 00:32:43.740 If that's the case. 781 00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:44.579 Just about. 782 00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:46.500 But that's my criticism. 783 00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:47.819 It hangs together for 4 episodes. 784 00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:51.000 It's just another 4 episodes. hangs around 4 episodes. 785 00:32:51.059 --> 00:32:55.740 You know, I think I really don't like Arc of Infinity, but I 786 00:32:55.740 --> 00:32:57.960 really don't like this. different from you guys. 787 00:32:58.019 --> 00:32:59.039 I just don't like it. 788 00:32:59.099 --> 00:33:01.200 I just I'm just over it at this point. 789 00:33:01.259 --> 00:33:05.880 Nathan, you've gone on and your admiration for Pete is admirable 790 00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:09.480 but I don't see all the things that you've seen in the performance 791 00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:13.559 and I just think he's too nice and that's something he comments 792 00:33:13.559 --> 00:33:13.859 about. 793 00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:15.839 He's just not the doctor for me. 794 00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:20.279 And I say that to everybody with, you know, not a criticism. 795 00:33:20.339 --> 00:33:22.079 I appreciate him so much more now. 796 00:33:22.140 --> 00:33:26.039 Like, I'm really finding new things, and that's all great, but I'm 797 00:33:26.039 --> 00:33:30.119 at this point going, you know, I just don't connect with you. 798 00:33:30.180 --> 00:33:35.039 I expected to experience that this time, but I'm finding a lot to 799 00:33:35.039 --> 00:33:36.119 like in his performance. 800 00:33:36.180 --> 00:33:38.460 And we talk about the end scene. 801 00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:40.259 So the final farewell scene. 802 00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:43.740 We've alluded to it a little bit, but there's this wonderful 803 00:33:43.740 --> 00:33:48.299 moment where Pete and Nissa are walking through the corridors, and 804 00:33:48.299 --> 00:33:52.140 I think Nissa says, it'll be nice to see the TARDIS again, or 805 00:33:52.140 --> 00:33:53.039 maybe the doctor says that. 806 00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:54.000 Yeah, it'll be nice. 807 00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:56.220 Yeah, and then this says, Antegan. 808 00:33:56.220 --> 00:33:59.700 And the doctor says, kind of, oh, maybe or something. 809 00:33:59.700 --> 00:34:04.259 Yeah, and there is something, he does this over and over again and 810 00:34:04.259 --> 00:34:06.359 you talked about it at the end of Arc of Infinity. 811 00:34:06.420 --> 00:34:10.019 But something that Pete does. 812 00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:13.980 He's not mean to Tegan and he's often very nice to her, but he 813 00:34:13.980 --> 00:34:17.639 constantly seems to just not really want her to be around or 814 00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:18.300 something. 815 00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:19.199 It's really funny. 816 00:34:19.260 --> 00:34:20.280 He's terrific. 817 00:34:20.340 --> 00:34:22.619 Yeah, it's quite well done. 818 00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:24.539 And then they come around the corner and there's Tegan. 819 00:34:24.599 --> 00:34:27.300 And the thing is, the doctor's 1st reaction is relief. 820 00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:31.500 But then he says, hold on, I told you to stay in the TARD. 821 00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:34.440 Yeah, it's like, I told you, stay locked in that box. 822 00:34:34.500 --> 00:34:35.760 We're going to have an adventure. 823 00:34:35.820 --> 00:34:39.539 And Nissa has to be the peacemaker and tell her you're happy to 824 00:34:39.539 --> 00:34:39.960 see her. 825 00:34:40.019 --> 00:34:42.000 Of course I'm happy to say, but she shouldn't have, that's a 826 00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:42.179 shape. 827 00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:45.780 We get more bloody character Vanessa in that in her final scene 828 00:34:45.780 --> 00:34:48.179 than we did for the rest of the story because, you know, 1st she's 829 00:34:48.179 --> 00:34:48.780 the peacemaker. 830 00:34:48.840 --> 00:34:54.119 But then immediately she says she's leaving and as a viewer, a bit 831 00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:56.699 of the subtext is, well, hold on, who's going to keep the doctor 832 00:34:56.699 --> 00:34:58.019 and Tegan together at this point? 833 00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:04.559 But, you know, for the lead up has been awful, Vanessa, to this 834 00:35:04.559 --> 00:35:05.099 leaving scene. 835 00:35:05.159 --> 00:35:11.760 But the 3 regulars just do so well in that scene. 836 00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:14.579 It's genuine heartfelt emotion. 837 00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:17.699 And coming back to something you said a couple of weeks ago, Todd 838 00:35:17.699 --> 00:35:20.940 about how Peter Davidson's doctor, he's focussed on what he's 839 00:35:20.940 --> 00:35:23.039 focussed on and that's all he's interested is. not interested in 840 00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:23.639 anything else. 841 00:35:23.699 --> 00:35:26.639 You know, he does, he's not terribly emotional. 842 00:35:26.699 --> 00:35:28.860 He's kind of got too, he's kind of got a few emotional states. 843 00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:30.300 He's got he's got static. 844 00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:32.820 He's got annoyed and he's got stressed. 845 00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:34.739 He doesn't have any other kind of emotion. 846 00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:36.659 When Nissa says goodbye to him. 847 00:35:36.719 --> 00:35:40.980 The way Davidson performs it, he doesn't have the emotional 848 00:35:40.980 --> 00:35:42.780 capacity for this. 849 00:35:42.840 --> 00:35:43.920 He's like, what is this? 850 00:35:43.980 --> 00:35:44.460 I feeling. 851 00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:46.619 He just kind of stands there stunned. 852 00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:46.860 Yeah. 853 00:35:46.860 --> 00:35:48.539 And it's a really good thing. 854 00:35:48.599 --> 00:35:51.840 And but then you get Tegan and Nissa tearing up and it's a great 855 00:35:51.840 --> 00:35:52.380 comparison. 856 00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:57.179 It's really good to have the 2 women, I think, because Pete does 857 00:35:57.179 --> 00:36:00.659 show a bit of affection when he discovers Nyssa again and they hug 858 00:36:00.659 --> 00:36:03.300 and things, but he's not very demonstrative. 859 00:36:03.360 --> 00:36:07.619 And so to have 2 women who we kind of know now. 860 00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:10.079 And I love that scene. 861 00:36:10.139 --> 00:36:11.880 I really, really like it. 862 00:36:11.940 --> 00:36:13.500 It's so well performed. 863 00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:18.059 It just shows how much they've wasted Sarah Sutton for the last 864 00:36:18.059 --> 00:36:20.400 couple of years because she's really good in it. 865 00:36:20.460 --> 00:36:22.800 And Tegan is really good in it. 866 00:36:22.860 --> 00:36:28.019 And, you know, I do tear up a bit at companion leaving scenes and 867 00:36:28.019 --> 00:36:31.619 you know, now that I'm sort of older and more jaded and have no 868 00:36:31.619 --> 00:36:33.960 human emotions of any kind left. 869 00:36:34.019 --> 00:36:39.000 I actually still found my cold, dead heart, you know, warming a 870 00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:40.860 little bit in that scene. 871 00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:44.940 I really liked it and I did have a little bit, you know, I think 872 00:36:44.940 --> 00:36:48.059 the room might have been a bit dusty or something when I was 873 00:36:48.059 --> 00:36:48.300 watching it. 874 00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:50.699 Yeah, we get a theme again and it's... 875 00:36:50.699 --> 00:36:53.880 We had Adrix same at the beginning and her theme here. 876 00:36:53.940 --> 00:36:56.940 It's this closure, really, to a chapter in the show. 877 00:36:57.000 --> 00:36:58.320 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 878 00:36:58.440 --> 00:37:02.340 Yeah, I mean, really, with the exception of Tegan, who wasn't that 879 00:37:02.340 --> 00:37:04.019 much of a crossover with the 4th doctor. 880 00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:04.559 We've now. 881 00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:06.420 The Adrik's gone. 882 00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:08.340 This has gone, 4th doctor's gone. 883 00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:11.400 You know, we've we've cut the gold. 884 00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:13.500 And then it just sort of ends. 885 00:37:13.559 --> 00:37:18.239 Yeah, yeah, we, we, I will not tell you again. 886 00:37:18.300 --> 00:37:19.800 Kill the doctor. 887 00:37:19.860 --> 00:37:24.420 But it's like that thing in deep breath and yeah, I know it from 888 00:37:24.420 --> 00:37:24.840 experience. 889 00:37:24.900 --> 00:37:26.460 You guys know it from experience. 890 00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:27.960 You don't start with your biggest sanction. 891 00:37:28.019 --> 00:37:29.340 It's like, do this or I'll kill you. 892 00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:30.179 Oh, you didn't do it. 893 00:37:30.239 --> 00:37:33.719 Well, if you don't do it next time, I'll definitely kill you 894 00:37:33.719 --> 00:37:34.199 then. 895 00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:35.820 He can't take the Black Guardian. seriously. 896 00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:36.900 He doesn't flow through on his threats. 897 00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:40.320 I was thinking exactly the same scene, actually. 898 00:37:40.380 --> 00:37:42.239 It's exactly what... 899 00:37:42.300 --> 00:37:47.940 But, but Valentine Dial has a great voice and he is a pretty 900 00:37:47.940 --> 00:37:48.960 terrific villain. 901 00:37:49.019 --> 00:37:52.500 We'll talk next week about my feelings about the Guardians 902 00:37:52.500 --> 00:37:57.239 generally, but I do like that final scene delivered to camera with 903 00:37:57.239 --> 00:38:00.059 you know, spittle flying from Valentine's mouth. 904 00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:02.940 Is he utters these sort of great villainous threats? 905 00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:06.480 I think it's really funny and it does, it is a great teaser for 906 00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:06.900 next week. 907 00:38:06.960 --> 00:38:10.139 It makes it very clear that we are actually going into the end 908 00:38:10.139 --> 00:38:13.199 game of this plot just by looking at that scene. 909 00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:18.539 I will say, regarding the Black Guardian, it was essentially 910 00:38:18.539 --> 00:38:23.400 Stephen Gallagher, who designed the way the Black Guardian would 911 00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:26.820 be used in this trilogy, because the 1st story for the Black 912 00:38:26.820 --> 00:38:29.280 Guardian trilogy wasn't originally Mordered our Dead. 913 00:38:29.340 --> 00:38:30.300 It was Song of the Space Whale. 914 00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:33.960 Later made by Big Finish as Song of the Magaptra. 915 00:38:34.079 --> 00:38:37.860 And Turlo was going to be one of the people living inside the 916 00:38:37.860 --> 00:38:39.000 space whale, et cetera. 917 00:38:39.059 --> 00:38:42.059 When that fell through, terminus was still in development. 918 00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:42.719 Right. 919 00:38:42.719 --> 00:38:47.880 And so Stephen Gallagher had the one page summary for Turlow and 920 00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:49.260 in the one page summary. 921 00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:51.420 It's like, you know, he's currently working for the Black Guardian 922 00:38:51.420 --> 00:38:52.800 because XYZ. 923 00:38:52.860 --> 00:38:58.139 And his take on it in his original pitch was all the way through 924 00:38:58.139 --> 00:39:00.719 this story, because he had no idea what was going to come before 925 00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:03.360 because there was no script, all the way through the story. 926 00:39:03.420 --> 00:39:06.480 Turlo would be hearing a voice urging him to kill the doctor. 927 00:39:06.539 --> 00:39:09.960 And it wasn't until that last scene that the Black Guardian would 928 00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:11.340 actually appear and reveal himself. 929 00:39:11.460 --> 00:39:12.000 Right. 930 00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:17.099 But then when Modern Undead came in, Peter Grimway, it had sort of 931 00:39:17.099 --> 00:39:20.039 from the very beginning, kind of said, here's the Black Guardian 932 00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:22.800 you know, and Stephen Gallagher didn't mind, but he's just like 933 00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:25.500 that's my interpretation, that would have actually been better 934 00:39:25.500 --> 00:39:30.000 because you would have had some kind of tension about what Turlow 935 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:30.480 was up to. 936 00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:33.659 And, you know, whether there was actually someone speaking to him 937 00:39:33.659 --> 00:39:35.820 or whether he was disturbed. 938 00:39:35.880 --> 00:39:38.940 You know, but it wasn't to be. 939 00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:40.199 But that's not what we got. 940 00:39:40.260 --> 00:39:41.400 That's not... 941 00:39:41.400 --> 00:39:44.099 I think that's the best way to sub up terminus. 942 00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:45.239 That's what we got. 943 00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:46.380 Oh dear. 944 00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:50.760 What is what is the doctor doing in the 1st 5 minutes of the 945 00:39:50.760 --> 00:39:51.059 show? 946 00:39:51.059 --> 00:39:53.760 Like, when he's not around, he suddenly runs from nowhere. 947 00:39:53.820 --> 00:39:57.000 Like, well, you know, I just find it really bizarre he's not there 948 00:39:57.000 --> 00:39:57.960 and it's everybody else. 949 00:39:58.019 --> 00:40:02.280 And then we have the whole, then he's a great shot with that 950 00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:02.579 chair. 951 00:40:02.639 --> 00:40:04.679 Yes, isn't he terrific? 952 00:40:04.739 --> 00:40:07.739 He leaps over the bed and hurls the chair at the closing door. 953 00:40:07.800 --> 00:40:09.539 That shot took an hour. 954 00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:12.719 I don't know why, but they just couldn't get it right. 955 00:40:12.780 --> 00:40:16.500 See, she could have got back her hour that she lost at the end. 956 00:40:16.619 --> 00:40:17.159 Exactly. 957 00:40:17.219 --> 00:40:19.920 But, um, I think I think we've skipped over something very 958 00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:20.519 important there. 959 00:40:20.579 --> 00:40:21.300 A very important question. 960 00:40:21.420 --> 00:40:22.079 What? 961 00:40:22.139 --> 00:40:25.980 Well, the doctor doesn't seem to actually make any adjustments to 962 00:40:25.980 --> 00:40:28.079 tune the scanner into Nissa and Tegan's room. 963 00:40:28.139 --> 00:40:29.699 He just kind of flicks a switch. 964 00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:33.300 No, he, there's a line of dialogue about how he's refocus. 965 00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:36.539 There's a line of dialogue, but as is always, very important in 966 00:40:36.539 --> 00:40:37.320 these situations. 967 00:40:37.380 --> 00:40:38.099 Look at his hands. 968 00:40:38.820 --> 00:40:41.400 So you reckon he's doing that quite a lot. 969 00:40:41.460 --> 00:40:42.780 Yeah apparently. 970 00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:47.639 During the week when I tweeted that I was watching these for my 971 00:40:47.639 --> 00:40:51.599 sick bed, Johnny Boris, who's one of the writers for Big Finish 972 00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:54.059 said, I'm going to watch Turbinus and tweet along. 973 00:40:54.119 --> 00:40:55.679 And he tweeted about that scene. 974 00:40:55.739 --> 00:40:58.139 Apparently in his new audio, The Waters of Amsterdam. 975 00:40:58.199 --> 00:41:01.739 He provides an explanation as to how the doctor can do that so 976 00:41:01.739 --> 00:41:02.099 quickly. 977 00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:04.380 I haven't heard it yet, but ooh, Johnny. 978 00:41:22.920 --> 00:41:26.820 Well, dear listener, that's all the time we have for terminus 979 00:41:26.820 --> 00:41:30.539 thankfully, but, uh, I do like to be beside the seaside, which is 980 00:41:30.539 --> 00:41:33.179 not where we're going to be for our next story of enlightenment. 981 00:41:33.239 --> 00:41:34.679 Please do come back for that next week. 982 00:41:34.739 --> 00:41:38.099 You can find us on FlightthroughEntirety.com, flight through 983 00:41:38.099 --> 00:41:43.139 entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter, over 984 00:41:43.139 --> 00:41:44.579 on Bondfinger. 985 00:41:44.639 --> 00:41:49.800 We've recently released Moonre, as our commentary, and just 986 00:41:49.800 --> 00:41:52.260 warning, it gets a bit insane towards the end. 987 00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:54.420 You can find that at bondfinger.com. 988 00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:58.079 Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and Bondfinger cast on Twitter. 989 00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:01.739 And don't forget about Doctor Who in 10 seconds over on YouTube as 990 00:42:01.739 --> 00:42:02.099 well. 991 00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:04.860 You can find links for all of these in our show notes. 992 00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:08.280 But until next week, may your silhouetted hell dog not be realised 993 00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:10.380 by a giant manke gray suit. 994 00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:11.760 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 995 00:42:11.820 --> 00:42:12.480 Good night. 996 00:42:12.539 --> 00:42:13.199 See you soon. 997 00:42:17.099 --> 00:42:21.360 That was Flight Through Entirety with Todd BLB, Nathan Bottomley 998 00:42:21.360 --> 00:42:22.380 and Brendan Jones. 999 00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:24.420 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 1000 00:42:24.480 --> 00:42:28.679 This episode, Danger Zone, was recorded on July 31st, 2016. 1001 00:42:28.980 --> 00:42:31.739 The next episode will be released on September 18th. 1002 00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:36.300 What's that, Skip? 1003 00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:40.380 Nieces caught the Lazar's disease, so she's taken a sicky... 1004 00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:49.860 I was gonna talk about the gum, but don't kick a dog while he's 1005 00:42:49.860 --> 00:42:49.980 down. 1006 00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:50.639 Yeah. 1007 00:42:50.699 --> 00:42:52.559 You can talk about the gum, if you want. 1008 00:42:52.619 --> 00:42:53.400 Oh, Jojo. 1009 00:42:53.460 --> 00:42:54.420 What is there to say? 1010 00:42:54.480 --> 00:42:58.860 Big, fat, shuffling, unimpressive looking thing that Niza screams 1011 00:42:58.860 --> 00:42:59.699 at for no reason. 1012 00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:00.179 Yeah. 1013 00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:02.099 I think we'll let that sleeping dog lie.