WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 16:21:04 1 00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:35.700 Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety 2 00:00:35.700 --> 00:00:38.460 the only Doctor Who podcast, who are lords of such a small 3 00:00:38.460 --> 00:00:38.939 domain. 4 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:40.320 Today it's Meadowbank. 5 00:00:40.380 --> 00:00:40.859 I'm Brendan. 6 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:41.579 I'm Nathan. 7 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:45.000 I'm Todd, and we are discussing listener Stephen Busanovsky's 8 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:47.340 favourite Peter Davidson story, possibly his favourite Doctor Who 9 00:00:47.340 --> 00:00:50.039 story of all time, Enlightenment. 10 00:01:08.099 --> 00:01:09.599 Well, this is terrible, isn't it? 11 00:01:10.019 --> 00:01:11.760 I had to do that. 12 00:01:11.819 --> 00:01:14.099 Worst story. shockingly bad. 13 00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:16.319 This is really pretty good, isn't it? 14 00:01:16.379 --> 00:01:17.519 It is so lovely. 15 00:01:17.579 --> 00:01:21.060 I love this in the same way I love the Androids of Tara. 16 00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:26.280 You know, I love it just because of the atmosphere and the 17 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:27.180 performances. 18 00:01:27.180 --> 00:01:31.319 And it is it's another example that it's very atypical for Doctor 19 00:01:31.319 --> 00:01:32.579 Who to have a story like this. 20 00:01:32.640 --> 00:01:35.760 But to say typical in that it's directed by a woman, our favourite 21 00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:38.219 Fiona coming, and written by a woman. 22 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:39.900 Is this the 1st Doctor 2 written by a woman? 23 00:01:39.959 --> 00:01:40.920 Barbara Clegg? 24 00:01:40.980 --> 00:01:42.239 Certainly written solo. 25 00:01:42.299 --> 00:01:47.760 The arc was credited to Paul Erickson and Leslie Scott, although 26 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:50.819 both said in later years that Leslie's name was on it, but she 27 00:01:50.819 --> 00:01:52.439 didn't actually have a hand in writing it. 28 00:01:52.500 --> 00:01:55.560 But yeah, this is the 1st time a woman has written solo for the 29 00:01:55.560 --> 00:01:55.799 program. 30 00:01:56.519 --> 00:02:00.359 Last week we complained about the high concept last week. 31 00:02:00.420 --> 00:02:03.959 Terminus was set on a spaceship in the centre of the universe that 32 00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:06.959 had caused the universe to be created and threatened its very 33 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:08.520 existence at the end. 34 00:02:08.580 --> 00:02:11.400 And that was just used to provide some word peril. 35 00:02:11.460 --> 00:02:12.719 And it was something that we couldn't see. 36 00:02:12.780 --> 00:02:15.840 I mean, there was a map of the universe with a dot in the centre 37 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:19.439 but there was nothing visual about that concept, and that concept 38 00:02:19.439 --> 00:02:22.139 didn't really seem to have a big impact on the story. 39 00:02:22.199 --> 00:02:27.479 Here we have a fantastic high concept, which is eternal beings 40 00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:32.580 sailing ships in order to win a race. 41 00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:34.919 The prize for which is enlightenment. 42 00:02:34.979 --> 00:02:38.580 It's and it's in every frame of the story. 43 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:41.939 It's so good and it's so interesting. 44 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:47.520 And the eternals, which could have been just powerful space aliens 45 00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:50.819 tremendously well realised. 46 00:02:50.819 --> 00:02:57.120 And the idea of what they're like, that they're parasitic, they're 47 00:02:57.120 --> 00:02:58.379 empty, they're bored. 48 00:02:58.439 --> 00:03:01.500 Do you remember Lady Tarnha from Snake Dance? 49 00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:02.280 Yes. 50 00:03:02.340 --> 00:03:06.419 So she and her son were bored because they were kind of 51 00:03:06.419 --> 00:03:08.280 aristocrat. 52 00:03:08.340 --> 00:03:10.379 And that's how the Eternals are. 53 00:03:10.439 --> 00:03:12.479 They're really aristocratic. 54 00:03:12.539 --> 00:03:15.840 They're completely dependent on normal people. 55 00:03:15.900 --> 00:03:17.639 They don't have to worry about work. 56 00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:21.060 Their chief enemy is boredom. 57 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:24.120 They don't care when their crews are destroyed. 58 00:03:24.180 --> 00:03:26.400 I mean, they completely read as aristocrats. 59 00:03:26.460 --> 00:03:29.939 And they also read like Homeric gods as well. 60 00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:34.199 So in the Iliad, the gods do appear on the battlefield and take 61 00:03:34.199 --> 00:03:35.340 part in the battle. 62 00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:37.560 But the big difference is they don't get killed. 63 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:42.240 And a huge theme of the Iliad is about mortality and the misery of 64 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:45.719 death in battle that the gods are just playing with, they don't 65 00:03:45.719 --> 00:03:46.800 suffer from it at all. 66 00:03:46.919 --> 00:03:50.639 And so there are real resonances to the way that the eternals are 67 00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:51.180 conceived. 68 00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:53.639 I just think they're tremendously good. 69 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:55.560 And I love their word for us. 70 00:03:55.620 --> 00:04:02.099 So ephemeral comes from a Greek word that means just lasting one 71 00:04:02.099 --> 00:04:02.340 day. 72 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:07.979 And I think it's a great word for them to describe us with. 73 00:04:08.039 --> 00:04:09.300 Absolutely. 74 00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:14.460 I was saying a few weeks ago, I think with Modern Undead. that a 75 00:04:14.460 --> 00:04:17.399 theme of this season seems to be disillusionment and the loss of 76 00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:18.480 dreams and what have you. 77 00:04:18.540 --> 00:04:24.180 And there are so many. stagnated characters in this and characters 78 00:04:24.180 --> 00:04:25.199 who are bored. 79 00:04:25.259 --> 00:04:30.120 And that doesn't always necessarily then translate into being very 80 00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:31.500 interesting for viewers. 81 00:04:31.560 --> 00:04:33.779 Like last week, the veneer are bored with what they do. 82 00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:37.860 It's kind of like they only do it because they do it and they've 83 00:04:37.860 --> 00:04:38.339 always done it. 84 00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:40.560 And plus the drugs. 85 00:04:40.620 --> 00:04:41.160 The drugs. 86 00:04:41.220 --> 00:04:41.459 Yeah. 87 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:42.420 Yeah, we got bored. 88 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:43.800 And we got exactly. 89 00:04:43.860 --> 00:04:45.060 And we got bored as viewers. 90 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:48.720 Modern undead as much as I like it. episode 3 drags on a bit with 91 00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:50.939 all the mutants going on about how bored they are. 92 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:54.660 Arc of Infinity, the Time Lords are bored and boring. 93 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:58.139 But here, these bored people are fascinating. 94 00:04:58.980 --> 00:05:01.800 You know, it's a study in Border. 95 00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:04.740 I think because these bored people are trying to find ways to 96 00:05:04.740 --> 00:05:05.939 overcome their boredom. 97 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:08.819 They're absolutely fascinated in Tegan. 98 00:05:08.939 --> 00:05:10.019 Like a lot of them. 99 00:05:10.860 --> 00:05:13.800 Mariner is so rapey, isn't he? 100 00:05:13.860 --> 00:05:15.180 really creepy. 101 00:05:15.240 --> 00:05:18.480 It's bizarre though, because yes, he is. absolutely. 102 00:05:18.600 --> 00:05:20.879 But he's also compelling. 103 00:05:20.939 --> 00:05:25.139 And you do develop sympathy for his character and you do develop 104 00:05:25.139 --> 00:05:30.600 sympathy for the character, relationship he has with Tegan. 105 00:05:30.660 --> 00:05:36.899 I think the turning point really is in episode 3 or possibly 106 00:05:36.899 --> 00:05:42.300 episode 4 when they're at the party on Rack's ship and he starts 107 00:05:42.300 --> 00:05:44.819 telling her that he missed her, et cetera, et cetera. 108 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:48.000 And she is just rebuffing him, rebuffing him, rebuffing him, and 109 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:53.040 rightly so, until she suddenly kind of thinks I'm applying human 110 00:05:53.040 --> 00:05:53.819 standards here. 111 00:05:53.819 --> 00:05:55.740 And she just says, well, are you in love? 112 00:05:55.800 --> 00:05:57.779 And he says, I don't want love, I want existence. 113 00:05:57.839 --> 00:05:59.879 He doesn't even know what love is. 114 00:05:59.939 --> 00:06:04.199 But that's a sucker punch because it's kind of like, well, actually 115 00:06:04.199 --> 00:06:06.240 when you're in love with someone, that's what love is like. 116 00:06:06.959 --> 00:06:10.560 I'm sure all of our listeners out there have been in a 117 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:15.720 relationship that has broken up and you do feel like a part of you 118 00:06:15.720 --> 00:06:16.620 doesn't exist anymore. 119 00:06:16.680 --> 00:06:21.899 It's bittersweet and the way he acts at the beginning of the story 120 00:06:21.899 --> 00:06:23.759 is horrible, et cetera, et cetera. 121 00:06:23.819 --> 00:06:28.319 I'm, you know, I'm not saying this isn't like, um, the sort of 122 00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:31.259 novels of the Bronte sisters, where it's like, oh, you're so 123 00:06:31.259 --> 00:06:31.740 horrible. 124 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:33.180 I'm going to throw myself at your feet. 125 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:35.759 And it's like that's not a good lesson to learn. 126 00:06:35.819 --> 00:06:41.459 But this is an uncomfortable relationship, but one that a non 127 00:06:40.439 --> 00:06:45.300 human, non-feeling character manages to raise within us an 128 00:06:45.300 --> 00:06:46.139 emotional reaction. 129 00:06:46.259 --> 00:06:49.680 I just love Janet in this story. 130 00:06:49.740 --> 00:06:55.259 She's, she, her performance is wonderful and navigating that 131 00:06:55.259 --> 00:06:59.399 relationship with the danger that exists on the ship and seeing in 132 00:06:59.399 --> 00:07:03.420 a, in a dress, you know, and the big hair and and it changes again 133 00:07:03.420 --> 00:07:04.259 her performance. 134 00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:07.920 And it's, I think it's a tour de force for her this entire show. 135 00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:12.839 That scene where she reacts to the 1st ship exploding, the Cretan 136 00:07:12.839 --> 00:07:13.319 ship. 137 00:07:13.379 --> 00:07:17.579 And then she confronts Mariner for not caring about any of the 138 00:07:17.579 --> 00:07:18.060 crew. 139 00:07:18.120 --> 00:07:20.519 I think she does really terrifically well. 140 00:07:20.579 --> 00:07:24.000 And then she goes back to her cabin and there's the picture of 141 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:26.220 Auntie Vanessa there and she just looks at it. 142 00:07:26.279 --> 00:07:31.680 And so the deaths of the crew and just how short and temporary our 143 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:35.939 lives are, makes her think about what happened to Auntie Vanessa. 144 00:07:36.060 --> 00:07:38.220 And poor Auntie Vanessa is never, ever mentioned again. 145 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:41.279 And it is kind of blink and you'll miss it, but I thought that 146 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:42.660 that was really particularly nice. 147 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:43.860 Yeah, yeah. 148 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:46.680 I mean, and you know, Auntie Vanessa's not mentioned by name in 149 00:07:46.680 --> 00:07:50.399 this, but they, they, they got Delore Whiteman back to take that 150 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:51.240 photograph. 151 00:07:51.300 --> 00:07:54.360 They actually called her in and paid her for a half day to do this 152 00:07:54.360 --> 00:07:55.139 photo shoot. 153 00:07:55.259 --> 00:07:57.180 So it wasn't a stock photo or anything. 154 00:07:57.240 --> 00:08:01.680 So they did go to great care to tie that link in. 155 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:06.720 And it's the kind of subtlety we don't always see in Doctor Who in 156 00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:06.959 general. 157 00:08:07.019 --> 00:08:08.220 Yeah, you know. 158 00:08:08.279 --> 00:08:09.660 But that's the thing. 159 00:08:09.720 --> 00:08:13.319 Instead of it being a, as you well know, doctor, my aunt died for 160 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:16.680 when we 1st met a, blah, blah, blah, it's just Tegan handing him 161 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:16.980 the photo. 162 00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:19.439 I'm sure she says aunt Vanessa at some point. 163 00:08:19.500 --> 00:08:20.579 Does she? 164 00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:22.980 Okay, maybe it slipped my mind, but you know, it's not it's not 165 00:08:22.980 --> 00:08:24.600 sort of hammered into you, you know. 166 00:08:24.660 --> 00:08:28.560 But it's this, you know, every story the season has to have an 167 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:29.459 element from the past. 168 00:08:29.519 --> 00:08:33.120 So it's stuff from her room in the Tartars and the picture of Aunt 169 00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:34.799 Vanessa, as well as the garden.ians. 170 00:08:34.860 --> 00:08:38.220 I think, and this has just occurred to me, the way we've been 171 00:08:38.220 --> 00:08:38.580 talking. 172 00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:43.379 Janet Fielding is the surprise factor of us rewatching this season 173 00:08:43.379 --> 00:08:44.639 for me at least anyway. 174 00:08:44.700 --> 00:08:48.539 You know, I've always enjoyed Tegan. enjoyed Janet's performance 175 00:08:48.539 --> 00:08:52.980 but she brings so much subtlety and nuance to it this year that 176 00:08:52.980 --> 00:08:56.399 wasn't there last year, except, you know, maybe a little bit 177 00:08:56.399 --> 00:08:57.659 towards the end. 178 00:08:57.720 --> 00:08:59.759 It's that thing I was talking about last week. 179 00:08:59.820 --> 00:09:01.799 She's able to play 2 emotions at once. 180 00:09:01.860 --> 00:09:04.379 Like, you know, with Mariner. 181 00:09:04.440 --> 00:09:07.080 She's incredibly irritated and enraged by him. 182 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:10.440 But at the same time, she's constantly asking him questions about 183 00:09:10.440 --> 00:09:13.080 his experience and trying to understand him as well. 184 00:09:13.139 --> 00:09:16.440 Whereas Tegan last year would have, you know, just screamed at him 185 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:17.220 and stormed off. 186 00:09:17.519 --> 00:09:20.399 It's been a bloody impressive year from Janet. 187 00:09:20.460 --> 00:09:21.419 Yeah, yeah. 188 00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:22.500 I like a great deal. 189 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:25.860 Yeah, I don't think I can fault a single one of her performance 190 00:09:25.860 --> 00:09:26.639 decisions this year. 191 00:09:26.700 --> 00:09:28.559 No she's very good. 192 00:09:28.860 --> 00:09:32.399 Besides Mr. Mariner, we also have Captain Striker. 193 00:09:32.460 --> 00:09:33.120 Oh, yes. 194 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:36.120 And he wasn't originally cast in that role. 195 00:09:36.179 --> 00:09:40.500 He got that role after they had to move the studio dates for the 196 00:09:40.500 --> 00:09:40.860 recording. 197 00:09:40.919 --> 00:09:42.240 I think he's great. 198 00:09:42.299 --> 00:09:46.259 And there is a scene in episode 2 where the doctor actually has a 199 00:09:46.259 --> 00:09:48.179 discussion with him about what's going on. 200 00:09:48.299 --> 00:09:54.059 And the passionate Peter Davis injects into that scene is 201 00:09:54.059 --> 00:09:55.440 amazing. 202 00:09:55.500 --> 00:10:00.179 Now, I am always very measured when it comes to this doctor and 203 00:10:00.179 --> 00:10:00.840 what he does. 204 00:10:00.899 --> 00:10:04.860 But I honestly think if you watch episode two, you go to that 205 00:10:04.860 --> 00:10:05.159 scene. 206 00:10:05.220 --> 00:10:10.679 That performance by Peter Davidson is so much better than, you 207 00:10:10.679 --> 00:10:11.580 know, the Earthshop thing. 208 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:13.919 They keep churning out, you know, his little speech to the Simon 209 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:14.700 inertshock. 210 00:10:14.759 --> 00:10:15.480 I actually think this is better. 211 00:10:15.539 --> 00:10:17.759 What's happening in that scene exactly? 212 00:10:18.120 --> 00:10:21.419 Well, the doctor is discussing with him. 213 00:10:21.480 --> 00:10:25.500 Why are they using ephemerals, why the Eternals are having this 214 00:10:25.500 --> 00:10:25.980 race? 215 00:10:26.039 --> 00:10:29.399 It's sort of analogous to the well-prepared meal speech that 216 00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:33.360 everyone quotes, but as you discussed about 2 months ago, Nathan 217 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:35.820 there are reasons that that speech is not actually as powerful 218 00:10:35.820 --> 00:10:38.340 because the cyber leader just goes, right, well, I'll kill your 219 00:10:38.340 --> 00:10:38.820 mate then. 220 00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:43.559 Whereas here, the doctor lands some really good points and some 221 00:10:43.559 --> 00:10:46.919 really good outrage, much like the previous one, nothing is really 222 00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:49.679 resolved in the doctor's favour from that, but he does land some 223 00:10:49.679 --> 00:10:54.059 really good points, but it also hits home. how we as the audience 224 00:10:54.059 --> 00:10:58.440 can react to these characters if we choose to, because as you say 225 00:10:58.440 --> 00:10:59.220 it's a big concept. 226 00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:01.860 But it boils it down to the doctor saying, these are all the 227 00:11:01.860 --> 00:11:04.500 qualities that these beings do not have. 228 00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:08.279 And not only do not have, because if it was just a matter of these 229 00:11:08.279 --> 00:11:10.919 beings don't feel emotion, we should hate them, that's that's 230 00:11:10.919 --> 00:11:12.059 bigotry. 231 00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:14.700 But it's a matter of these people don't feel emotion and so they 232 00:11:14.700 --> 00:11:16.500 treat others as less than themselves. 233 00:11:16.620 --> 00:11:18.960 That becomes a moral point. 234 00:11:19.019 --> 00:11:20.580 It's just the passion. 235 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:26.039 It's just like Peter has found something at this and he's going to 236 00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:28.799 deliver it next year in his performances and the scripts. 237 00:11:28.860 --> 00:11:31.919 And this is the 1st, well, besides Snake Dance, which I've 238 00:11:31.919 --> 00:11:34.500 commented before, like in the 1st 2 episodes where there is this 239 00:11:34.500 --> 00:11:37.860 you know, energy that he has and the way it's written, this is, it 240 00:11:37.860 --> 00:11:38.580 comes back here. 241 00:11:38.940 --> 00:11:42.240 It's nice that that scene's played opposite Stryker, who is almost 242 00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:46.980 completely emotionless and doesn't seem to be upset as a result of 243 00:11:46.980 --> 00:11:47.820 what Pete says. 244 00:11:47.879 --> 00:11:48.840 Yeah, yeah. 245 00:11:49.080 --> 00:11:53.399 And of course, as you said earlier, Todd, Keith Barron wasn't the 246 00:11:53.399 --> 00:11:54.779 original choice for Striker. 247 00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:58.379 It was actually Peter Salis of Last of the Summer Wine, and 248 00:11:58.379 --> 00:12:00.659 Wallace and Gromit, and Penley and the Ice Warriors. 249 00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:01.679 Okay excellent. 250 00:12:01.740 --> 00:12:06.299 And yeah, recording dates got moved around as a result of the 251 00:12:06.299 --> 00:12:09.240 industrial action, which affected Terminus and Will Scupper, the 252 00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:12.000 season finale, which we'll get to next week. 253 00:12:12.059 --> 00:12:14.519 And so they lost Peter Salis. 254 00:12:14.580 --> 00:12:17.460 And what Fiona coming and said, someone said to her, look, you 255 00:12:17.460 --> 00:12:20.279 know, what's the difference between Keith Barron's performance and 256 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:24.179 Peter Salis's performance and she said, well, when Peter Salis 257 00:12:24.179 --> 00:12:25.200 came in to rehearsal. 258 00:12:25.259 --> 00:12:27.960 First thing he said was, right, where do I sit? 259 00:12:28.019 --> 00:12:30.600 And she said, no, no, no. 260 00:12:30.659 --> 00:12:32.100 You're a captain of the ship. 261 00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:32.700 You're standing. 262 00:12:32.759 --> 00:12:33.240 There no seats. 263 00:12:33.299 --> 00:12:34.799 Oh darling, no, no. 264 00:12:34.919 --> 00:12:37.320 My agent didn't say this was a standing job. 265 00:12:37.379 --> 00:12:38.700 I don't do standing jobs. 266 00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:41.279 And she's like, he sent us up rotten. 267 00:12:41.340 --> 00:12:42.240 He was absolutely lovely. 268 00:12:42.299 --> 00:12:47.820 But she did say, when I cast him, I had a particular way the role 269 00:12:47.820 --> 00:12:49.139 was going to be performed in mind. 270 00:12:49.139 --> 00:12:49.860 And then we lost him. 271 00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:53.039 So when Keith Barron came in, I threw out everything I was going 272 00:12:53.039 --> 00:12:57.120 to do with Peter because I thought that was Peter's performance in 273 00:12:57.120 --> 00:12:58.799 my mind, Peter Salis's performance. 274 00:12:58.860 --> 00:13:02.100 It's not fair for me to say to Keith Barron play it like Peter 275 00:13:02.100 --> 00:13:04.799 Salis because now I've got Keith Barron, Keith Barron plays it 276 00:13:04.799 --> 00:13:05.519 like Keith Barron. 277 00:13:05.580 --> 00:13:07.799 So she didn't actually say what his performance would have been 278 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:10.500 like, but looking at some of his other stuff. 279 00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:15.120 I imagine his performance wouldn't have been so piercing as Keith 280 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:18.600 Barron, because Keith Barron has that stillness and that still 281 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:19.320 stare. 282 00:13:19.379 --> 00:13:24.720 He was regularly playing villains in the 70s and 80s, you know, and 283 00:13:24.720 --> 00:13:27.720 he always has that stillness about him and that quietness. 284 00:13:27.779 --> 00:13:31.139 What these days we might call an Alan Rickman kind of quality. 285 00:13:31.379 --> 00:13:37.980 Whereas Peter Sallis kind of has that more ruminative, muttery 286 00:13:37.980 --> 00:13:39.000 guttural kind of voice. 287 00:13:39.059 --> 00:13:42.179 So yeah, I imagine they would have been very different, but Peter 288 00:13:42.179 --> 00:13:43.679 Sales still would have been a fine choice. 289 00:13:43.740 --> 00:13:46.740 And I think really good opposite Peter, because Peter is that very 290 00:13:46.740 --> 00:13:51.480 upright actor, whereas Peter Salis is this very languid sort of 291 00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:51.840 actor. 292 00:13:51.899 --> 00:13:52.919 So that could have worked. 293 00:13:52.980 --> 00:13:54.720 I think those 2 are my favourite things in this. 294 00:13:54.779 --> 00:13:57.960 I mean, obviously it gotten into Baron as the other baron. 295 00:13:58.019 --> 00:13:59.879 And, you know, she's only into episodes. 296 00:13:59.940 --> 00:14:03.539 I think I was talking a few weeks ago about not even remembering 297 00:14:03.539 --> 00:14:06.299 Colin Baker, you know, of Infinity, but she's one of those 298 00:14:06.299 --> 00:14:08.460 characters, Captain Rack, you just remember. 299 00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:11.399 And she's only in that few episodes of the show. 300 00:14:11.460 --> 00:14:14.940 She has been in Doctor Who before, of course. 301 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:19.559 Vocally, singing the Ballad of the Last Chance Saloon, and she'll 302 00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:20.879 come back in closing time. 303 00:14:20.940 --> 00:14:24.539 She'll be brought back by Gareth Roberts, but she was, of course 304 00:14:24.539 --> 00:14:28.919 terribly famous for open all hours playing Ronnie Barker's sword 305 00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:31.200 of love interest, nurse Gladys Emmanuel. 306 00:14:31.259 --> 00:14:34.080 And she was hefty, Nurse Gladys, wasn't she? 307 00:14:34.139 --> 00:14:35.580 She was a larger woman. 308 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:42.600 Whereas Linda Baron here is, she just looks fantastic, particularly 309 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:45.539 the dress that she wears for the ball in episode three. 310 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:49.139 She's really sexy and sexual. 311 00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:51.059 She's got sort of great breast. 312 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:53.519 She's got a really sort of striking look to her. 313 00:14:53.580 --> 00:14:57.179 And in fact, I think the reason that Tegan wears a white dress and 314 00:14:57.179 --> 00:15:02.100 not much makeup to the great big party in episode 3 is to make a 315 00:15:02.100 --> 00:15:05.940 contrast with the overt sexuality of Linda Barron's character. 316 00:15:05.940 --> 00:15:07.019 Absolutely. 317 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:09.419 And, yeah, in 1980s, Doctor Who. 318 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:14.820 John Nathan Turner had quite a strict policy of not depicting sex 319 00:15:14.820 --> 00:15:17.820 and sexuality in any way in the shows. 320 00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:20.820 You know, he was constantly famous for saying no hanky-panky and 321 00:15:20.820 --> 00:15:21.899 the TARDIS and that sort of thing. 322 00:15:22.019 --> 00:15:25.139 And so we don't see much romance from guest characters as well or 323 00:15:25.139 --> 00:15:27.539 sexuality during the 1980s. 324 00:15:27.659 --> 00:15:32.159 And yeah, but Linda Barron as Captain Rack is just oozing 325 00:15:32.159 --> 00:15:35.759 sexuality and sensuality, I think it's important to point out. 326 00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:40.620 And she is physically, she is a perfect casting choice for that 327 00:15:40.620 --> 00:15:41.399 period of history. 328 00:15:41.460 --> 00:15:47.039 A lot of people use the description Rubinesque as an insult, but 329 00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:48.840 she is a Rubinesque model. 330 00:15:48.899 --> 00:15:52.440 You can imagine her in a Renaissance painting, except she's really 331 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:52.980 skinny. 332 00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:54.720 You actually look at her in that dress. 333 00:15:54.779 --> 00:15:56.460 She's really thin. 334 00:15:56.519 --> 00:15:58.799 She's sort of... she's great. 335 00:15:58.860 --> 00:16:00.299 She looks terrific. 336 00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:04.139 You know, she has what might be described as a classic hourglass 337 00:16:04.139 --> 00:16:04.500 figure. 338 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:05.399 Yeah, yeah, you know. 339 00:16:05.460 --> 00:16:06.779 Yeah, she is amazing. 340 00:16:06.840 --> 00:16:07.799 She looks amazing. 341 00:16:07.860 --> 00:16:12.360 And I think if you're going to have a character play that sort of 342 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:14.460 flirtatious role. 343 00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:20.039 You need someone who is a big screen presence and all eyes are 344 00:16:20.039 --> 00:16:20.700 drawn to her. 345 00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:23.399 You know, Keith Barron as striker. 346 00:16:23.460 --> 00:16:25.500 The most captivating thing about him is his voice. 347 00:16:25.559 --> 00:16:28.799 But, you know, if he's standing in the scene, like a few of the 348 00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:30.899 bridge scenes he's standing in the background, you may not notice 349 00:16:30.899 --> 00:16:31.679 him until he speaks. 350 00:16:31.740 --> 00:16:35.460 It's impossible not to notice Linda Baron in any scene she's in. 351 00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:38.220 There's bits of the party where she's in the background, but you 352 00:16:38.220 --> 00:16:43.740 can just hear her occasionally laugh and oh, Fiona coming really 353 00:16:43.740 --> 00:16:45.840 doesn't put a foot wrong with casting, does she? 354 00:16:45.899 --> 00:16:46.799 Well, she does. 355 00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:48.539 Okay, Cardinals or accent? 356 00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:48.899 Sorry. 357 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:49.799 No, no, no. 358 00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:50.700 Baruso. 359 00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:51.600 No, no, no, in this story. 360 00:16:51.659 --> 00:16:52.440 I don't like... 361 00:16:52.440 --> 00:16:54.659 I don't like the guy who's playing her number two. 362 00:16:54.659 --> 00:16:57.059 Lee John from Imagination. 363 00:16:57.299 --> 00:17:00.720 No, sometimes he's okay, and other times he's too... 364 00:17:00.779 --> 00:17:01.679 I think it's too much. 365 00:17:01.740 --> 00:17:05.640 And I just kind of think it's a bit too, I don't know if it's camp 366 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:08.160 or whatever, but there's sometimes when I kind of think, oh, no 367 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:09.359 pull it back, pull it back. 368 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:13.019 I like that she's got like a little gay side, though. 369 00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:14.460 He is incredibly... 370 00:17:14.579 --> 00:17:15.420 He is terribly happy. 371 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:19.259 Are there publicity shots of them threatening the doctor on the 372 00:17:19.259 --> 00:17:20.160 Tartar set? 373 00:17:20.220 --> 00:17:24.059 Yeah, because just because that set was set up, that's where 374 00:17:24.059 --> 00:17:26.759 people were filming that day when the radio times photographer 375 00:17:26.759 --> 00:17:27.180 came in. 376 00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:31.259 I think it may have also been a matter of not showing off the 377 00:17:31.259 --> 00:17:34.259 buccaneer set before telecast. 378 00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:36.660 But yeah, there's no deleted scenes of them getting access to 379 00:17:36.660 --> 00:17:37.319 targets. 380 00:17:37.380 --> 00:17:38.220 That would have been awful. 381 00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:41.700 I mean, if the Tartar set had been in their, you know, a big space 382 00:17:41.700 --> 00:17:46.319 set amongst all of those lovely wooden corridors, that would have 383 00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:48.539 been a terrible mistake and they don't make it. 384 00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:51.660 I think the sets look amazing. 385 00:17:51.900 --> 00:17:57.240 With maybe the exception of the whatever room with the eye thing. 386 00:17:57.359 --> 00:17:58.680 Oh, the vacuum shield room. 387 00:17:58.740 --> 00:18:00.000 I love that I hate it. 388 00:18:00.059 --> 00:18:02.819 And I think it's really poorly shot at times when they're on the 389 00:18:02.819 --> 00:18:03.180 floor. 390 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:06.180 You can't tell, is there a force field there, what's going on? 391 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:08.880 I just think the whole perspective and angle is wrong. 392 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:11.460 The whole in the floor, isn't there? 393 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:14.039 That it looks like people could defizer, yeah. 394 00:18:14.099 --> 00:18:16.799 There's no way Linda Baron is falling through that hole. 395 00:18:16.859 --> 00:18:18.299 She's not fitting through it. 396 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:19.680 It's just not going to happen. 397 00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:22.380 I don't think Peter Davis could fit through that hole to be honest 398 00:18:22.380 --> 00:18:22.680 with you. 399 00:18:22.740 --> 00:18:25.500 But I just think it's really Paul, that whole set and like, what 400 00:18:25.500 --> 00:18:27.480 are the big sort of vacuum shield? 401 00:18:27.539 --> 00:18:29.880 You know, she's got 10,000 locks. 402 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:34.559 I'm now sort of beginning to criticise a few aspects here. 403 00:18:34.619 --> 00:18:37.859 I think I did myself in coming into this because I used to really 404 00:18:37.859 --> 00:18:39.720 just adore this completely. 405 00:18:39.779 --> 00:18:41.640 And so I had really high expectations. 406 00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:46.200 And so like all of that sort of stuff just began to annoy me. 407 00:18:46.259 --> 00:18:49.200 The performance that you're talking about, her gay sidekick. 408 00:18:49.259 --> 00:18:50.880 I just thought, just pull it back a little. 409 00:18:50.940 --> 00:18:53.579 I just wanted, you know, and not to say that he's, in some scenes 410 00:18:53.579 --> 00:18:54.180 I think he's really great. 411 00:18:54.299 --> 00:18:55.619 And he's got great look. 412 00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:58.799 Yeah, but in other things, I'm thinking, oh, you know, at the 413 00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:02.039 beginning, the white guardian is fading in and out. 414 00:19:02.099 --> 00:19:02.519 Why? 415 00:19:02.579 --> 00:19:03.359 I don't understand. 416 00:19:03.420 --> 00:19:06.660 If the black and white guardians are equal, then I don't see why 417 00:19:06.660 --> 00:19:07.980 one has control over the other. 418 00:19:08.039 --> 00:19:08.640 I don't get it. 419 00:19:08.700 --> 00:19:14.099 I think that the Guardians are horrifically bad in this story and 420 00:19:14.099 --> 00:19:17.099 I think Cyril Luckam as the White Guardian is terrible. 421 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:20.759 And I think the whole conception of the Guardians for this story 422 00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:23.579 is completely wrong. 423 00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:26.880 When we 1st see the White Guardian at the beginning of the rebos 424 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:31.140 operation, He is a colonial plantation guy. 425 00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:33.480 You know, he's in a wicker chair. 426 00:19:33.539 --> 00:19:35.460 He's having a lovely drink. 427 00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:37.920 He's on an unconvincing set. 428 00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:42.960 He is in absolute control, and the doctor defers to him by calling 429 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:45.960 him sir as if he's like an angry headmaster. 430 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:51.000 And he is not nice. 431 00:19:51.299 --> 00:19:58.740 The associations he's given make him aristocratic and colonial and 432 00:19:58.740 --> 00:20:02.160 dismissive and kind of nasty. 433 00:20:02.220 --> 00:20:08.339 And I think that conception of the Guardians is Bob Holmes doing 434 00:20:08.339 --> 00:20:13.500 that to undermine the idea that there are, you know, these 2 equal 435 00:20:13.500 --> 00:20:18.299 manichee and good and evil forces running the universe because 436 00:20:18.299 --> 00:20:21.180 that's a horrible, stupid idea. 437 00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:25.259 But here he's just a sort of pathetic, good guy with a bird poking 438 00:20:25.259 --> 00:20:25.920 out of his hand. 439 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:30.660 And he's struggling to communicate as if he's just some space 440 00:20:30.660 --> 00:20:33.660 person. makes no sense to me. 441 00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:35.160 It makes no sense. 442 00:20:35.220 --> 00:20:38.700 And then in episode three, when the Black Guardian is threatening 443 00:20:38.700 --> 00:20:42.480 Turlow, I'm going to criticise the direction and the performance 444 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:45.420 here, he actually walks around and goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah 445 00:20:45.420 --> 00:20:45.720 yeah. 446 00:20:45.779 --> 00:20:48.299 I'm going, what the hell is that? 447 00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:49.920 Like, no. 448 00:20:49.980 --> 00:20:52.619 And also, he grabs Turlo and tries to strangle it. 449 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:55.680 Isn't the whole point, the Black Guardian. 450 00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:58.079 Not that it's been stated, but isn't the whole point that he can't 451 00:20:58.079 --> 00:21:01.019 interfere with the physical universe, which is why he needs Turlo 452 00:21:01.019 --> 00:21:03.420 to pick up a rock and why he needs Turlo to operate the blue 453 00:21:03.420 --> 00:21:03.839 switches. 454 00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:04.619 Really? 455 00:21:04.619 --> 00:21:06.119 The Black Guardian can't appear and do that? 456 00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:08.279 But more than that, okay? 457 00:21:08.339 --> 00:21:11.460 Why are they in charge of enlightenment or there? 458 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:15.119 How often do these eternals actually have this race? 459 00:21:15.180 --> 00:21:16.980 What are they going to do when they get enlightenment? 460 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:21.180 Like, there's just, there's just things that I want answers to 461 00:21:21.180 --> 00:21:21.900 these questions. 462 00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:24.779 Like, does this race happen yearly annually? 463 00:21:24.839 --> 00:21:28.680 The Eternals don't die and all their little people don't die when 464 00:21:28.680 --> 00:21:30.720 they, you know, they just go back to the void. 465 00:21:30.779 --> 00:21:34.140 There's, yes, we get the death of the cruise. 466 00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:37.980 But again, okay, that's awful. 467 00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:40.740 We have one man overboard who goes bop and disappears. 468 00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:43.019 Is he an eternal or is he? 469 00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:43.740 So he's an eternal. 470 00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:46.980 We get Linda Baron and her psychic put out into space. 471 00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:51.059 Now, isn't that a scene with the doctor and Turlow? 472 00:21:51.180 --> 00:21:53.339 We're meant to think it's the doctrine? 473 00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:53.880 Of course we're not. 474 00:21:53.940 --> 00:21:56.759 But it is, Tegan thinks it's the doctrine, Turlo. 475 00:21:56.819 --> 00:21:58.799 No, no, no, but who's in there with them at the time? 476 00:21:58.859 --> 00:22:00.119 Yeah, it's a doctor in Turlo. 477 00:22:00.180 --> 00:22:01.019 Yeah, they push them out. 478 00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:03.539 And it's like, I just find that a real cop out. 479 00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:07.380 It's like, I have been waiting for, you talked about the fact that 480 00:22:07.380 --> 00:22:10.019 the doctor was suspicious of Turlow, right? 481 00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:13.859 Yes, he's suspicious of Turnlope, but it's one of the things... 482 00:22:14.099 --> 00:22:17.460 Yeah, there's a resolution at the end, but I want to see the 483 00:22:17.460 --> 00:22:20.220 conversation between the doctor and Turlow. 484 00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:21.240 Do you know where I'm going with this? 485 00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:24.480 Like, I just think it's a big cop out by not seeing them getting 486 00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:25.079 pushed out. 487 00:22:25.140 --> 00:22:27.599 There's a big cop out by the fact that I don't get. 488 00:22:27.660 --> 00:22:29.700 I don't want a confrontation scene per se, but I just want 489 00:22:29.700 --> 00:22:30.779 something more set. 490 00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:34.859 See, I'm sorry, but I am going to disagree. 491 00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:37.859 And this is something I've discussed with Stephen Busanovski, who 492 00:22:37.859 --> 00:22:38.519 we mentioned earlier. 493 00:22:38.579 --> 00:22:39.660 He loves his story. 494 00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:43.319 Where the doctor says Enlightenment wasn't the Diamond 495 00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:44.400 Enlightenment was the choice. 496 00:22:44.460 --> 00:22:45.240 Yeah. 497 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:50.099 When he's standing there just watching Turlow, that to me is the 498 00:22:50.099 --> 00:22:53.819 moment Peter Davidson arrives as the doctor, he's the doctor who 499 00:22:53.819 --> 00:22:58.380 gives you everything you need to make the right decision, but 500 00:22:58.380 --> 00:22:59.759 making that decision is up to you. 501 00:22:59.819 --> 00:23:04.799 It's bizarre because the doctor does nothing in that scene, but 502 00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:08.700 it's one of Peter Davidson's most powerful scenes so far, just 503 00:23:08.700 --> 00:23:10.380 because of the expression on his face. 504 00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:12.180 He's not looking at Turlow. 505 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:14.460 He's not looking at him expectantly. 506 00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:15.839 He's not looking at him pleadingly. 507 00:23:15.900 --> 00:23:17.700 He's not looking at him threateningly. 508 00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:20.519 He is standing back and saying, I trust you. 509 00:23:20.819 --> 00:23:23.819 And I trust my fate in your hands. 510 00:23:23.940 --> 00:23:28.740 But the thing is, he's not doing that blindly, you know, he has 511 00:23:28.740 --> 00:23:33.180 experienced the last 3 stories and he's been suspecting Turlo 512 00:23:33.180 --> 00:23:35.700 since Morden undead, and quite a few times in this story. 513 00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:39.119 He questions Turlo's motivations, not about being in the TARDIS 514 00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:42.180 but about coming out onto the ship with him about whether it'll be 515 00:23:42.180 --> 00:23:45.839 all right with the crew, about, you know, if he's comfortable on 516 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:46.319 the ship. 517 00:23:46.380 --> 00:23:47.759 Does he need to go back to the TARDIS. 518 00:23:47.819 --> 00:23:50.519 There's that lovely scene where Turlo gives up the key to the rum 519 00:23:50.519 --> 00:23:54.000 locker and the look on the doctor's face. 520 00:23:54.059 --> 00:23:58.680 Both the doctor and Turlo are hugely disappointed with him for 521 00:23:58.680 --> 00:23:59.160 doing that. 522 00:23:59.220 --> 00:24:01.259 Yeah, he betrays Jackson. 523 00:24:01.319 --> 00:24:04.200 Remember, Jackson is the teetotaller. 524 00:24:04.259 --> 00:24:10.259 So he's not drinking the stuff for the blade. the rum that makes 525 00:24:10.259 --> 00:24:13.920 everyone else happy to don spaceships and go above decks. 526 00:24:13.980 --> 00:24:19.500 And Turmo betrays him to the Eternals, and both the doctor and 527 00:24:19.500 --> 00:24:21.359 Turlo are hugely disappointed in him. 528 00:24:21.420 --> 00:24:26.940 And I like that that moral decision, that wrong moral decision. 529 00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:30.180 Look, I don't think we believe that Turlow really wants to be 530 00:24:30.180 --> 00:24:33.480 friends with Captain Rack and gain enlightenment in the later 531 00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:34.019 episodes. 532 00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:37.680 I think the doctor's assessment of what's going on is the one that 533 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:38.519 we believe. 534 00:24:38.579 --> 00:24:43.500 But just because we've had his character called into question. 535 00:24:43.559 --> 00:24:46.140 I think that's really interesting. 536 00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:49.680 And I also think there's another thing that bears on his final 537 00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:52.619 choice, and that's when he's trapped in that stupid room. 538 00:24:52.740 --> 00:24:56.759 He calls out to the Black Guardian who's really mean and horrible 539 00:24:56.759 --> 00:24:57.660 to him. 540 00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:00.720 And then he immediately calls out to the doctor who comes in and 541 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:01.559 rescues him. 542 00:25:01.619 --> 00:25:05.819 Yeah, and it's ambiguous as to whether he's heard Turlo calling 543 00:25:05.819 --> 00:25:07.019 out to the Black Guardian verse. 544 00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:09.000 Oh, that hadn't occurred to me. 545 00:25:09.059 --> 00:25:12.720 Because when the doctor comes through the door, there's a surprise 546 00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:13.559 look on his face. 547 00:25:13.619 --> 00:25:16.920 It can't be surprised that, oh, that's Turlo's voice. 548 00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:18.660 You know, he's gone looking for Turlo. 549 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:19.740 He knows he's gonna find him. 550 00:25:19.799 --> 00:25:24.359 You know, I think maybe the doctor expects to get clobber and it's 551 00:25:24.359 --> 00:25:27.059 a bit of a trap because he doesn't kind of relax until until he 552 00:25:27.059 --> 00:25:30.059 sees that Turlow is genuinely in distress and I was going to be 553 00:25:30.059 --> 00:25:30.900 sucked out into space. 554 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:32.519 Why did the stars spin, you know? 555 00:25:32.579 --> 00:25:35.160 I think that's some subjective view point? 556 00:25:35.220 --> 00:25:35.460 Yeah. 557 00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:39.119 It does take a very, very long time for the air to evacuate from 558 00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:40.920 that room thing, does it? 559 00:25:40.980 --> 00:25:41.759 Yeah, it does. 560 00:25:41.819 --> 00:25:46.380 Although, mind you, I think, uh, what's it, in event horizon, you 561 00:25:46.380 --> 00:25:48.299 can survive about 30 seconds. 562 00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:49.740 No, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. 563 00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:53.160 You can survive about 30 seconds in the absolute 0 vacuum space. 564 00:25:53.220 --> 00:25:55.559 Yeah, no, but it's about half an episode. 565 00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:58.859 It's also like the man overboard thing in the beginning of episode 566 00:25:58.859 --> 00:25:59.400 three. 567 00:25:59.460 --> 00:26:00.359 Could they be slower? 568 00:26:00.420 --> 00:26:01.200 Like, you know? 569 00:26:01.259 --> 00:26:03.000 Oh, it's not tied down. 570 00:26:03.059 --> 00:26:07.680 I really, really like the music in that scene. 571 00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:11.579 And I don't like Malcolm Clark very much. 572 00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:15.660 I dislike his music mostly for earth shock. 573 00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:16.559 I think it's horrible. 574 00:26:16.619 --> 00:26:20.099 He's got a sort of tendency to go back and do the same thing over 575 00:26:20.099 --> 00:26:20.880 and over again. 576 00:26:20.940 --> 00:26:23.460 He's a big fan of bangs and crashes and stuff. 577 00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:26.099 Does he do the twin dilemma score? 578 00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:27.720 I think he does and it's... 579 00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:29.940 No, I think it's Roger Lim, I thought. 580 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:31.559 I thought it was Attack of the Sidemen. 581 00:26:31.559 --> 00:26:32.700 Yeah, he does attack. 582 00:26:32.759 --> 00:26:36.480 But he does some great work for the Eternals here. 583 00:26:36.539 --> 00:26:38.220 Their theme is really great. 584 00:26:38.279 --> 00:26:42.779 And the scene where Turlo drifts from one ship to another across 585 00:26:42.779 --> 00:26:46.980 space is really good as well, rather than making it urgent. 586 00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:52.440 It makes it, you know, like a little bit mystical and a little bit 587 00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:53.400 sort of strange. 588 00:26:53.460 --> 00:26:54.720 It's really good. 589 00:26:54.779 --> 00:26:58.140 Well, I'm glad it's really good because that's juxtaposed with the 590 00:26:58.140 --> 00:27:01.380 stupid music as the crew get into their space gear and get their 591 00:27:01.380 --> 00:27:03.599 rum rations, which I just think is appalling. 592 00:27:03.660 --> 00:27:06.900 Oh, it's a horn pipe or something, isn't it? 593 00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:09.480 That's a little sailor theme. 594 00:27:09.539 --> 00:27:13.980 I will say, though, that cliffhanger, there's your re-edited 595 00:27:13.980 --> 00:27:16.980 Doctor Who cop out to that cliffhanger because episode 2 ends with 596 00:27:16.980 --> 00:27:18.299 the doctor shouting, no. 597 00:27:18.359 --> 00:27:22.019 And episode 3 starts with Turlo, I'll never serve you again. 598 00:27:22.019 --> 00:27:24.720 And then you cut back to Davis and say, oh, don't be an idiot. 599 00:27:24.900 --> 00:27:27.960 Which is actually better. 600 00:27:28.019 --> 00:27:30.359 That would have been a great cliffhanger. 601 00:27:30.420 --> 00:27:31.980 If it had been Pete, don't be an idiot. 602 00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:35.160 Then resting cliffhanger face and then closing credits would have 603 00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:35.460 been really good. 604 00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:39.000 Oh, dude, it's a season 22 Australia cliffhanger all over again. 605 00:27:39.299 --> 00:27:43.140 Above decks is beautiful and beautifully lit. 606 00:27:43.140 --> 00:27:44.880 Yeah, we're evenly shot. 607 00:27:44.940 --> 00:27:49.079 It is, you know, 4 1983, 82. 608 00:27:49.319 --> 00:27:51.180 I think they're doing a pretty good job. 609 00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:54.960 One of the shots I don't like is, you know, when they cut to that 610 00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:58.740 the captain on the other ship, the Greek captain, I think it is 611 00:27:58.740 --> 00:28:00.000 and it just looks so cheap. 612 00:28:00.059 --> 00:28:04.500 And then he's got that, the jewel and the doctor looked just very 613 00:28:04.500 --> 00:28:05.640 observant about that jewel. 614 00:28:05.700 --> 00:28:07.859 Something that annoyed me as a kid was the fact that when he 615 00:28:07.859 --> 00:28:09.900 actually crushes the jewel and they're trying to get it outside. 616 00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:12.539 There's still bits on the floor and they're going, ah. 617 00:28:12.779 --> 00:28:16.019 When we were watching that, Rod said, why didn't they just pick up 618 00:28:16.019 --> 00:28:16.500 the rug? 619 00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:18.059 They can get you on the hug. 620 00:28:18.420 --> 00:28:20.519 Why didn't they do that? 621 00:28:20.579 --> 00:28:23.279 But I don't think that happens in these stories, the doctor 622 00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:24.839 manages to switch his celery. 623 00:28:24.900 --> 00:28:25.859 Yes. 624 00:28:25.920 --> 00:28:28.500 Fake celery for fake celery. 625 00:28:28.619 --> 00:28:30.480 That's why it wilts very slowly. 626 00:28:30.599 --> 00:28:34.019 I was actually a little bit worried that he might put the celery 627 00:28:34.019 --> 00:28:37.200 that he'd had on his lapel back into the container with the other 628 00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:39.720 celery and that someone might eat it because it would be really 629 00:28:39.720 --> 00:28:42.900 kind of rank and horrible by now, but he very thoughtfully puts it 630 00:28:42.900 --> 00:28:44.160 in a little scabbard. 631 00:28:44.220 --> 00:28:47.400 I think there's a sword on the wall and he puts it in the scabbard 632 00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:48.480 so that no one's going to eat it. 633 00:28:48.539 --> 00:28:51.660 Something just occurred to me that should have occurred to me ages 634 00:28:51.660 --> 00:28:52.740 ago, reading the celery. 635 00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:56.279 Because the original celery was created in cast valva, right? 636 00:28:56.339 --> 00:28:58.799 So the original celery was created by Adric. 637 00:28:58.859 --> 00:29:02.700 Wouldn't have been amazing in Earthshock if in the last scene, the 638 00:29:02.700 --> 00:29:06.299 doctor's celery crumbles to dust because it's dead. 639 00:29:06.359 --> 00:29:09.299 Sustained by block transfer computation all this time. 640 00:29:09.359 --> 00:29:13.200 Yeah, and, you know, Adric has been sustaining the doctor's salary 641 00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:15.240 all this, you know, just with a little sum in the back of his head 642 00:29:15.240 --> 00:29:15.779 all this time. 643 00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:19.440 You know, that's the kind of thing modern Doctor Who might do. 644 00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:22.619 I'm not blaming the production team for not thinking of that. 645 00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:24.960 You know, that's very esoteric, but that would have been cute. 646 00:29:25.019 --> 00:29:27.720 I don't know why he wears the celery. so dumb. 647 00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:32.160 No one does until... until Robert Holmes says, oh, fine. 648 00:29:32.220 --> 00:29:33.420 Oh, make something up. 649 00:29:33.539 --> 00:29:38.640 Why does the Black Guardian burn with the Enlightenment thing? 650 00:29:38.700 --> 00:29:42.599 Because the light destroys the dark. tells us. 651 00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:45.660 I think with a story like this where you do have sort of all 652 00:29:45.660 --> 00:29:51.779 powerful gods sailing around the solar system in ships, that maybe 653 00:29:51.779 --> 00:29:56.160 it's not such a terrible thing that we don't get explanations of a 654 00:29:56.160 --> 00:29:57.539 lot of stuff that's going on. 655 00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:02.099 I think there's just something sort of poetic and lyrical. 656 00:30:02.160 --> 00:30:05.279 It's a little bit like warrior's gate where it doesn't really work 657 00:30:05.279 --> 00:30:08.940 on a sort of scientific level or sort of sapphire and steel. 658 00:30:09.000 --> 00:30:11.099 You know, if you ever discovered that sapphire and steel were 659 00:30:11.099 --> 00:30:14.519 really from the planet Bloz, you know, and that they had space 660 00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:16.380 names and stuff. 661 00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:17.759 That would kind of undermine it. 662 00:30:17.819 --> 00:30:22.740 And I like that this is just a random thing that doesn't really 663 00:30:22.740 --> 00:30:24.960 play into the mythology of the show. 664 00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:28.799 I think Russell has the doctor name, check the Eternals at some 665 00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:29.039 point. 666 00:30:29.099 --> 00:30:30.539 Yeah, yeah. 667 00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:31.740 David Tennant does. 668 00:30:31.799 --> 00:30:34.980 But they're not a big part of the program. 669 00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:36.660 And I like that. 670 00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:40.920 I think there's something just sweet about it and the visuals. 671 00:30:40.980 --> 00:30:46.859 You know, there's a special edition on the... on the DVD. 672 00:30:46.859 --> 00:30:50.220 And it's, I don't like special editions very much, and I'm not 673 00:30:50.220 --> 00:30:51.240 sure that I like this one. 674 00:30:51.299 --> 00:30:54.779 It does it in widescreen and that doesn't work with the source. 6 675 00:30:54.779 --> 00:30:56.279 material. minute cut, I think, yeah. 676 00:30:56.339 --> 00:31:01.500 But they are able to a really truly breathtaking shot of all of 677 00:31:01.500 --> 00:31:02.700 those ships in space. 678 00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:03.599 Yeah, yeah. 679 00:31:03.660 --> 00:31:04.680 In a special edition. 680 00:31:04.740 --> 00:31:05.339 Yeah. 681 00:31:05.400 --> 00:31:09.599 So it's it's on a separate disk, a 66 minute car, and it was on 682 00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:12.420 off the cuff remark Peter Davidson made, I think on the Castro 683 00:31:12.420 --> 00:31:15.059 Valver commentary because Fiona Cumming was on that as well. 684 00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:18.599 And he said something lines up, you know, I'd be very interested 685 00:31:18.599 --> 00:31:22.980 to see one of our stories cut like one of the new series with that 686 00:31:22.980 --> 00:31:24.839 kind of pacing and that kind of storytelling. 687 00:31:24.900 --> 00:31:30.180 So for Enlightenment and for Planet of Fire, these separate 688 00:31:30.180 --> 00:31:31.140 editions were prepared. 689 00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:34.380 I think the Enlightenment Special Edition is far more successful 690 00:31:34.380 --> 00:31:35.640 than the Planet of Firewall. 691 00:31:35.700 --> 00:31:36.480 Which is terrible. 692 00:31:36.539 --> 00:31:38.039 We'll talk about that. 693 00:31:38.099 --> 00:31:38.940 Shockingly bad. 694 00:31:39.059 --> 00:31:43.799 But this one does have something that the new series has, which is 695 00:31:43.799 --> 00:31:48.660 a simple, straightforward, understandable plot, despite the crazy 696 00:31:48.660 --> 00:31:50.460 insane high concept. 697 00:31:50.519 --> 00:31:56.220 It's a race and Captain Rack is killing her competitors and that 698 00:31:56.220 --> 00:31:59.460 eventually puts the doctor and Tegan in jeopardy. 699 00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:01.140 And I like that. 700 00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:05.819 And it's maybe just slightly too thin for 4 episodes. 701 00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:09.359 And certainly episode one has a lot of marking time because you 702 00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:13.680 want the episode one Cliffhanger revealed to be nowhere in space. 703 00:32:13.740 --> 00:32:20.339 So not quite enough, I think, happens in episode one, but I really 704 00:32:20.339 --> 00:32:24.779 appreciate after Arc of Infinity, where the threats were 705 00:32:24.779 --> 00:32:29.940 incomprehensible and the whole thing was just kind of stupid or 706 00:32:29.940 --> 00:32:34.680 terminus where there was a high concept that was just talked about 707 00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:39.240 I like the fact that the plot is straightforward and it makes it 708 00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:40.440 so much more enjoyable. 709 00:32:40.500 --> 00:32:43.200 They're really good points that you've made there. 710 00:32:43.259 --> 00:32:45.900 I mean, as I said, not a few minutes ago. 711 00:32:45.960 --> 00:32:50.220 I went into this as really high expectations and so things weren't 712 00:32:50.220 --> 00:32:52.380 as good for me because I was picking apart these things. 713 00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:54.359 You know, the doctor doesn't explain who the black and white 714 00:32:54.359 --> 00:32:57.420 guardians are at the beginning, you know, at the end, this 3rd 715 00:32:57.420 --> 00:32:58.019 encounter. 716 00:32:58.079 --> 00:32:59.700 Those are the little things that I've mentioned. 717 00:32:59.819 --> 00:33:03.480 Yeah, a good point, actually. 3rd encounter is that the... 718 00:33:03.480 --> 00:33:06.000 There will be a 3rd encounter, something like that. 719 00:33:06.059 --> 00:33:09.599 And those other little things that I picked up, sort of, maybe I 720 00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:11.640 need to go back and just watch a few of those things. 721 00:33:11.700 --> 00:33:17.039 I still I still would have liked something more in terms of the 722 00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:19.500 doctor and Turo having some conversation. 723 00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:20.519 That's just me. 724 00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:21.900 I just need that for me. 725 00:33:21.960 --> 00:33:23.880 No, no, I think it's a flaw. 726 00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:27.779 I do think it's a flaw in the sense that we've been leading up to 727 00:33:27.779 --> 00:33:30.539 this big decision where Turlo is going to have to make a 728 00:33:30.539 --> 00:33:31.019 decision. 729 00:33:31.079 --> 00:33:34.980 And although it's alluded to, as we said, I agree that I don't 730 00:33:34.980 --> 00:33:37.079 think that that quite comes off. 731 00:33:37.140 --> 00:33:41.940 And I will say one of Eric Sey would strengths as a writer is that 732 00:33:41.940 --> 00:33:46.619 when characters have disagreements in his scripts, you are under 733 00:33:46.619 --> 00:33:49.079 no illusions that they are having a disagreement, you know what 734 00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:51.900 they're having a disagreement about, and there is usually some 735 00:33:51.900 --> 00:33:54.660 kind of resolution to it in the course of the story. 736 00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:56.339 So, yeah, I do agree. 737 00:33:56.400 --> 00:33:58.019 They could have put that in very easily. 738 00:33:58.079 --> 00:34:02.579 Regarding episode one, it is marking time until the cliffhanger 739 00:34:02.579 --> 00:34:05.460 but something I really like about it is, you know, it starts out 740 00:34:05.460 --> 00:34:08.039 with a strange situation, you've got the dimly lit tartist, which 741 00:34:08.039 --> 00:34:08.760 looks fantastic. 742 00:34:08.820 --> 00:34:12.119 I just wish they'd light it orange like that all the time. 743 00:34:12.179 --> 00:34:12.780 Yeah. 744 00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:15.059 So you've got a strange thing happening, but then they land on a 745 00:34:15.059 --> 00:34:15.659 sailing ship. 746 00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:16.559 Okay, that's a bit normal. 747 00:34:16.619 --> 00:34:18.239 Oh, then they meet the crew. 748 00:34:18.360 --> 00:34:18.960 That a bit normal. 749 00:34:19.019 --> 00:34:20.639 Oh, the crew don't know how they got here. 750 00:34:20.699 --> 00:34:22.139 That's a bit weird. 751 00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:24.420 You've kind of got these peaks and troughs. 752 00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:26.579 You've got rising action and falling action all the way through 753 00:34:26.579 --> 00:34:28.920 the episode and then you get that reveal at the end. 754 00:34:28.980 --> 00:34:31.139 So it's it's very 60s. 755 00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:34.679 You know, if you look at, say, the 1st episode of the Sensorites 756 00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:38.760 that is kind of strange, normal, strange, normal, strange, normal 757 00:34:38.760 --> 00:34:40.619 strange, normal, alien outside the window. 758 00:34:40.679 --> 00:34:41.159 Yeah. 759 00:34:41.159 --> 00:34:44.159 You know, it's very slow paced like that. 760 00:34:44.219 --> 00:34:45.480 So I definitely see what you're saying. 761 00:34:45.539 --> 00:34:49.800 I don't think anyone's compared the 1st episode of Enlightenment 762 00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:52.199 to the 1st episode of the Sense rights, but it's absolutely 763 00:34:52.199 --> 00:34:54.420 irresistible as a comparison. 764 00:34:54.480 --> 00:34:56.760 They're really similar You heard it here first. 765 00:34:56.820 --> 00:34:58.440 Analoda Rogers has fantastic hair. 766 00:34:58.500 --> 00:35:02.219 What does that mango R on the screen in episode one? 767 00:35:02.280 --> 00:35:04.440 Like, you know how they look on the screen? 768 00:35:04.500 --> 00:35:05.219 Ah. 769 00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:07.440 Oh, when Mariner falls off. 770 00:35:07.500 --> 00:35:12.659 Well, Fiona Cummings' impression of the TARDIS scanner was that 771 00:35:12.659 --> 00:35:17.039 the camera was mounted in the light on the top, but also that it 772 00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:18.300 was 360 degrees. 773 00:35:18.360 --> 00:35:21.420 So the reason you see his hands is his hands are actually meant to 774 00:35:21.420 --> 00:35:24.599 be round the back of the screen. while his face is in front of 775 00:35:24.599 --> 00:35:24.900 it. 776 00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:28.019 Now it doesn't quite come off because he's put his hands up in the 777 00:35:28.019 --> 00:35:28.440 wrong way. 778 00:35:28.500 --> 00:35:30.480 But that was some Fiona's concept. 779 00:35:30.659 --> 00:35:32.460 So he falls off. 780 00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:33.239 Yeah, pretty much. 781 00:35:33.300 --> 00:35:34.739 He falls off the top of the Tartars. 782 00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:37.739 It's hard to imagine him actually doing that, and I am glad that 783 00:35:37.739 --> 00:35:38.940 we don't get to see it. 784 00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:42.059 The camera being in the light is in Legopolis. 785 00:35:42.119 --> 00:35:43.320 Yes, very clear. 786 00:35:43.380 --> 00:35:44.159 That doesn't worry me. 787 00:35:44.219 --> 00:35:45.960 I'm always confused when I'm watching that once. 788 00:35:46.019 --> 00:35:46.380 Yes, exactly. 789 00:35:46.380 --> 00:35:48.119 Yeah, it does. doesn't quite work. 790 00:35:48.179 --> 00:35:52.320 Something I just thought of in terms of Linda Barron. 791 00:35:52.380 --> 00:35:54.719 First of all, Linda Baron and Mark Strickson works so well 792 00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:55.079 together. 793 00:35:55.139 --> 00:35:58.920 And you can see what Mark Strickson's doing in those scenes is as 794 00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:02.639 Turlo, he's going, I'm going to act the same way Captain Rack does 795 00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:04.320 and hopefully she'll trust me. 796 00:36:04.380 --> 00:36:06.900 And I just think it's so wonderful about 3 or 4 times. 797 00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:09.480 She's like, I can read your mind. 798 00:36:09.539 --> 00:36:11.280 I know you're deceiving me. 799 00:36:11.340 --> 00:36:13.619 And he's like, well, of course I'm deceiving. 800 00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:15.059 They're really fun together. 801 00:36:15.119 --> 00:36:18.719 But I love the bit of when she's talking about her winning 802 00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:19.559 enlightenment. 803 00:36:19.619 --> 00:36:23.940 She says, I'll be able to create and destroy as I wish. 804 00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:25.380 I'll never be bored again. 805 00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:30.420 So that introduces the concept that enlightenment is what you do 806 00:36:30.420 --> 00:36:30.900 with it. 807 00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:37.679 So I think for Mariner, his enlightenment isn't the crystal. 808 00:36:37.739 --> 00:36:39.900 His enlightenment comes over the course of the story when he 809 00:36:39.900 --> 00:36:42.000 starts to understand what emotions are. 810 00:36:42.059 --> 00:36:44.340 And, you know, he doesn't get there at the end. 811 00:36:44.340 --> 00:36:48.719 And, oh, that bit at the end is heartbreaking. when he's saying to 812 00:36:48.719 --> 00:36:49.739 Tegan, I need you. 813 00:36:49.739 --> 00:36:52.619 And Tegan looks to the doctor for reassurance that there's nothing 814 00:36:52.619 --> 00:36:53.280 she could have done. 815 00:36:53.340 --> 00:36:57.780 You know, and again, it's Janet being fabulous and complex and 816 00:36:57.780 --> 00:36:58.619 multi-layered. 817 00:36:58.679 --> 00:37:00.900 It, like, Tegan shouldn't have to apologise. 818 00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:04.079 You know, Tegan has really been treated quite shortly by Mariner 819 00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:07.260 but as a human being, she can't help but feel for him. 820 00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:10.619 So do you think his enlightenment would be becoming a real 821 00:37:10.619 --> 00:37:11.159 person? 822 00:37:11.219 --> 00:37:12.179 Yeah, yeah. 823 00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:14.460 You know, for a comparison a few years later. 824 00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:15.900 You know, he's data, he's Spock. 825 00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:19.139 Yeah, actually, a bit racist saying that about Spock. 826 00:37:19.199 --> 00:37:21.780 There's nothing wrong with Spock being emotionless, but data 827 00:37:21.780 --> 00:37:23.099 actually wants to become more human. 828 00:37:23.159 --> 00:37:28.440 But Captain Rax alignment is destroying things. 829 00:37:28.500 --> 00:37:31.619 She doesn't actually understand what it is she wants because she 830 00:37:31.619 --> 00:37:33.539 already creates and destroys it will. 831 00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:37.139 But she thinks she needs this thing in order to do that. 832 00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:40.559 And that, that's not what maybe, okay, maybe that is what 833 00:37:40.559 --> 00:37:43.679 enlightenment is for her, the illusion of that free will that she 834 00:37:43.679 --> 00:37:44.460 already has. 835 00:37:44.519 --> 00:37:48.360 But it's the line from Carnival of Monsters. 836 00:37:48.420 --> 00:37:50.760 You know, you give them a hygiene chamber, they'll store fossil 837 00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:51.300 fuel in it. 838 00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:54.000 You give her the power to create and she'll just destroy. 839 00:37:54.059 --> 00:37:56.219 I've really enjoyed this discussion. 840 00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:59.519 I think the points that both of you have made have made me 841 00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:03.179 reevaluate this because I was going to call Snake Dance my 842 00:38:03.179 --> 00:38:04.139 favourite of the season. 843 00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:06.900 Like this had dropped, but I think I need to go back and rewatch 844 00:38:06.900 --> 00:38:09.599 this because the visuals are stunning and the performances are 845 00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:09.900 great. 846 00:38:09.900 --> 00:38:12.659 And just some of the points you've had to say, I want to go back 847 00:38:12.659 --> 00:38:14.280 and watch it again, and I think it's gone up in my opinion. 848 00:38:14.340 --> 00:38:18.360 I like, I think both snake dance and enlightenment are good 849 00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:19.019 stories. 850 00:38:19.019 --> 00:38:23.460 And like you, I'm not a big fan of the Davis and era stories 851 00:38:23.460 --> 00:38:24.360 generally. 852 00:38:24.420 --> 00:38:26.760 But these are really good. 853 00:38:26.820 --> 00:38:29.280 And I think they're probably better than anything that we had last 854 00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:29.579 year. 855 00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:31.800 Oh, definitely. 856 00:38:31.860 --> 00:38:32.519 Yeah, absolutely. 857 00:38:32.579 --> 00:38:35.699 The thing is, Todd, I see completely where you're coming from. 858 00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:39.599 I think because a lot of this season doesn't quite reach its 859 00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:40.079 potential. 860 00:38:40.139 --> 00:38:44.159 Enlightenment is held up as appropriately enough, this Shining 861 00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:44.460 Jewel. 862 00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:49.139 But that does mean we get to the point where we expect it to be 863 00:38:49.139 --> 00:38:51.119 even better than it already is. 864 00:38:51.179 --> 00:38:54.360 And I certainly get that with some other Doctor Who stories. you 865 00:38:54.360 --> 00:38:55.739 know, if I go back to watch them. 866 00:38:55.800 --> 00:38:59.400 It's like, I've said it before and I'll say it in 2 months when we 867 00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:02.880 get there, I don't rate Caves of Andrazani that highly. 868 00:39:02.940 --> 00:39:05.039 But I understand why people do. 869 00:39:05.099 --> 00:39:08.159 Maybe it's because I came to it with all these impressions already 870 00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:08.579 formed. 871 00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:11.820 Don't worry, Brendan. on the same page as you. 872 00:39:33.300 --> 00:39:37.619 Well, dear listeners, we hoist our moon rankers as we speed away 873 00:39:37.619 --> 00:39:42.539 from Enlightenment, and, uh, towards this year's two part story 874 00:39:42.539 --> 00:39:45.840 Terence Dudley is back with the king's demons. 875 00:39:45.900 --> 00:39:46.800 Hurrah. 876 00:39:46.860 --> 00:39:47.699 Hooray. 877 00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:49.139 And a blue engine. 878 00:39:51.179 --> 00:39:55.980 Until next week, you can find us online at flightthroughentirety 879 00:39:54.300 --> 00:39:55.980 sexy. 880 00:39:56.039 --> 00:39:59.460 Flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and at FTE podcast 881 00:39:59.460 --> 00:40:01.320 on Twitter over on Bondfinger. 882 00:40:01.380 --> 00:40:04.380 We have our Moonraaker commentary up appropriately enough for this 883 00:40:04.380 --> 00:40:04.679 story. 884 00:40:04.739 --> 00:40:07.860 You can find that at bondfinger.com, bondfinger on Facebook and 885 00:40:07.860 --> 00:40:12.300 iTunes, and bondfinger cast on Twitter, and all things being even 886 00:40:12.300 --> 00:40:17.039 you may just find a new episode of Doctor Who in 10 seconds up on 887 00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:20.639 our YouTube channel, the link for which you can find in the 888 00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:21.659 description below. 889 00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:26.639 Until next week, may none of your rum be spiced with hallucinogens 890 00:40:26.639 --> 00:40:28.739 that make you think you're actually sailing on the ocean when 891 00:40:28.739 --> 00:40:29.639 you're in the middle of space. 892 00:40:29.699 --> 00:40:31.079 I hate when that happens. 893 00:40:31.139 --> 00:40:32.519 Thank you very much for listening, good night. 894 00:40:32.579 --> 00:40:33.360 Good night. 895 00:40:33.420 --> 00:40:34.619 See you soon. 896 00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:37.079 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 897 00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:40.920 That was Flight through Entirety, starring Todd Bealby, Nathan 898 00:40:40.920 --> 00:40:44.460 Bottomley, and Brendan Jones, theme arrangement by Cameron Lath. 899 00:40:44.519 --> 00:40:49.079 This episode, the other baron, was recorded on 31st of July 2016. 900 00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:53.099 The next episode will be released in 2 weeks time on 2nd of 901 00:40:53.099 --> 00:40:53.820 October. 902 00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:57.360 I knew a busty immortal buccaneer in need of a little gay 903 00:40:57.360 --> 00:40:58.199 sidekick. 904 00:40:58.260 --> 00:41:01.500 At the flight for entirety, we have gay sidekicks available in 905 00:41:01.500 --> 00:41:02.400 various sizes. 906 00:41:02.460 --> 00:41:05.820 Remember to use the offer code foolish ephemeral and check out. 907 00:41:06.659 --> 00:41:10.440 I think it's one of the reasons why Tegan wears that white dress 908 00:41:10.440 --> 00:41:15.059 and not very much makeup to the... why she wears that white dress 909 00:41:15.059 --> 00:41:17.760 and not very much makeup to the... 910 00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:19.019 I can't think what it's called. 911 00:41:19.079 --> 00:41:21.539 Could you use Tegan's name in that because you haven't mentioned 912 00:41:21.539 --> 00:41:21.900 her before? 913 00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:22.500 Oh, sorry. 914 00:41:22.500 --> 00:41:22.739 Yep. 915 00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:29.460 I think that that's the reason that my name is T. This is what 916 00:41:29.460 --> 00:41:31.619 it's like recording Doctor Who in 10 seconds. 917 00:41:33.539 --> 00:41:37.079 I think the reason that Tegan wears a white dress and not much 918 00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:37.380 mate.