WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 16:22:41

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Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Fly Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast whose will is not weak.

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How dare?

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Oh, Will.

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Sorry, okay.

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I'm Brendan.

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Ah, je m'appelle Nathan Estram.

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And the doctor is our loyal demon.

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Gum, golly, gum, gum, gum, gum.

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I don't know the words to this song.

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Gung, Gully, Gully, Gung, Gung, Gung, Gung.

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I hope you all will hum along.

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Gung, gung, gung, gung, gung.

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It's the king's demons.

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I'm so sorry, everybody.

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That's what I remember.

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From this story, as a kid, my sisters and I didn't know the lyrics

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to that, but we just remembered.

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The doctor was out lower D mine and like we're so not musically

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inclined in my family.

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So it was like this, that's the strumming of the, whatever they

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play.

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I was singing this really quite loudly around the house this

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morning, and I do know the words, and then I realised that they

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were really kind of insulting to my Muslim neighbours, so I

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stopped.

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Yeah, yeah, against the Saracen who we abhor.

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Yeah, terrible.

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So it's great that Terrence Dudley is back.

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With racism.

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Didn't he write Black Orchid?

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Yeah.

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So that was a lot of horrible people doing to somebody who's been

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incapacitated in some way.

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Yeah, so it was Abelism last time.

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At least this time, the racism is historically accurate.

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There's not really that much of it.

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Yeah.

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Terence Dudley is back or T Duds, as I've taken to calling him, for

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his final script for the program.

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Hooray.

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Oh, God.

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And you discovered this week, I think, Brendan, that his 1st

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script for the program could have been.

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Oh my god.

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I've subscribed to Doctor Who, the Complete History, which is like

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getting 2 Peter Haning books in your post once a month, roughly

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128 to 176 page book covers between 2 and 4 Doctor Who stories.

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So the 1st book covers an unearthly child or the Daleks, or

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because this is from the Makers of Doctor Who magazine.

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It covers 100,000 BC and the Mutants, a.k.a. the Daleks.

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Thank you very much. monsters, aren't they?

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They do at least include a full page discussion as to why these

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are the correct titles.

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No.

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But they've got, of course, a very lengthy origin section of

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Doctor Who.

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So obviously very to them, but did go on record of saying, look, if

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we'd had another script, we wouldn't have started with cavemen.

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Not that it was bad or anything, but it just wasn't showing what

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we wanted to do with the show.

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At one point, they did actually try to ditch that script and just

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keep Anthony Coburn's unmade script Doctor Who and the robots

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later made by Big Finisher's Masters of Luxor.

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And they approached Terence Dudley to write the 1st Doctor Who

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story.

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And he declined.

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And aren't we all grateful?

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Yeah that's why we're here.

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Because I think if anything is obvious after Terrence Dudley's 3

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scripts for the program and also directing Meg Loss, he has no

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interest in science fiction.

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You can tell from that 2nd series of survivors, which I think he

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has a big hand in where they all just sort of settle down and grow

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cabbages and nothing really very interesting happens.

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So, you know, he's not very good.

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None of his scripts are very good and this is no exception.

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It's really terrible.

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This is mine, apparently.

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But I just can't remember anything about it. without looking at my

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notes and even then, oh, well, look, no, that's not quite true.

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I can remember some things.

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There's some, there's some of the lines.

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Like when, I really like, is it Gerald Flood as, as, as the king.

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I love like our champion, our demons.

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Like, those are things that actually stick with me, and I think he

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actually does a great performance.

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Possibly the highlight of this whole thing.

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And then he's got his champion who talks about the blue engine.

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I love that line, the blue engine.

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A friend of Nathan and mine used to have a blue engine car.

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That's right.

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His car was called the blue engine.

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Glenn Langford, former Doctor Who fan.

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He got better.

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Yeah, so those little things, I like those little, those little

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lines.

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But, um, honestly, a frigging master.

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I was watching one of the documentaries in a future story.

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And it mentions that Anthony Ainley had a contract to appear in 2

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Doctor 2 stories a year.

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Up until 1984.

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Now, I don't know who he had it over, right?

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But it was contractly contracted that he would be paid for 2

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appearances, even if he did not appear.

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So we had Keeper of Trachan and Megopolis.

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Castravalva and Time Flight.

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And so this year, it's the king's demons and the 5 doctors.

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And then his contract runs out with Planet of Fire.

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That, you know, they don't get the 2 in.

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But he still got, he still gets paid.

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Yeah absolutely.

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He must have had photos of someone.

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And I, you know, I'm pretty sure in a few years time he gets paid

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for the unmade season 23 at all.

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He does because he had a new contract.

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He had a new contract where he was then for 3 years, at least one

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story a year.

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So he got paid for that.

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Colin got paid for that season as well.

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So did Nicola.

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So to Nicolas.

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So it's like, whatever.

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But, you know, we have to use the master.

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I'm a bit conflicted about him in this one because, um, so Gille

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is just unforgivable.

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Terrible French accent, much worse than mine was, just like really

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really bad.

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Like yeah, comically bad.

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But once he reveals himself.

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I quite like Anthony Ainley in this story.

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Like when he when he takes his Tartas down to the dungeon and he's

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ingratiating himself with Lady Isabel.

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I think that's, he's actually quite charming in that scene.

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You know, there's a there's a touch of Delgado with Ingrid Pitt.

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Yeah, okay.

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I mean, we've got Ilsa Blair, who was cinaphar in Blake 7 duel.

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It was totally bugging me.

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I knew I knew her from somewhere.

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And you know, she's one of those people who she was regularly

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doing TV guest appearances.

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She's still acting now.

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She has this quietness about her performance.

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With the quietness, she has that wonderful Shakespearean quality

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which a lot of stage actors have, where no matter how quiet they

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are.

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You are still listening to them, like Judy Dench or Derek Jack.

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I don't think she ever raises her voice in this story except maybe

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when Sir Jeffrey's killed.

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But all the time, whenever she's talking, you're not listening to

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anyone else.

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You've got Frank Windsor as her husband, he's very good.

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He'll come back in ghost light.

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You've got Christopher Villiers, I think, is her son.

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And this was very early on in his career and he went on to be

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quite successful.

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He's cast really for one reason, isn't he?

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He's quite hot.

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He's really pretty.

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But he seems to have found some peroxide that's fallen banquets

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through a crack in time because he does have lovely blonded hair

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doesn't he?

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Much like peace, I guess.

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He actually agreed not to cut his hair in the lead up to this.

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It was written into his contract, whereas all the other blokes had

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hairpieces.

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Except for Gerald Flood.

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It's quite interesting.

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The one thing I do like the fact is that the monaster does

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manipulate these people against the doctor, like in that episode

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and I find it quite frustrating.

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But I like that as a view of the fact that, you know, he's

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manipulating them and and, and do you remember the 1st time you

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watched it, whether you recognise that Sergille was the master?

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That's the question I was going to ask you.

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So you beat me to it.

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I think I did.

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Initially, because he doesn't speak, I kind of went, do I know

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you?

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Then when he started to speak his, you know, a blue engine, I, then

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I worked out that I'm pretty sure I worked out before the reveal.

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Like, yeah, like, it was like fairly obvious, I think. think

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that's what I do remember.

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Yeah, it's not like the portrayable car lead where you can imagine

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on 1st broadcast you might have been fooled.

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I mean, the thing is coming me coming to those stories.

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I always knew.

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Yeah.

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Car lead.

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Like for God's sake.

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Oh, you'd never know.

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Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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And, you know, the poor tree.

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He's really good in his whispery voice.

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But yeah, it's mainly the voice that gives him away.

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I think the beard is stupid.

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But it does effectively disguise his face.

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I think there are a few shots where it is really, really visibly

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anley, in a way that you could probably have picked up at home.

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But, you know, he's trying to disguise his voice again with his

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really atrocious accent.

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Like he is trying to do something, you know, to try and make

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it...

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He's still no professor for Scalis, though, is he?

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I, yeah, but at the same time, even Roger Delgado had that scene

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in, um, in Claws of Axos, where he's fooling Benton into giving

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him the TARDIS, and just sort of turns around and rips the rubber

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mask off, and his, his only attempt to disguise his voice is like

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the difference between my voice now, and doing this, Sergeant.

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Oh, I'm in the army.

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See, I like, see, Duggada used to rip off the rubber mask or

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whatever.

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In Castravalva, he just stands up and flashes between the 2

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characters.

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And I think the same thing happens here as well.

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Like it just flashes between the two.

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It's not like he rips off the beard and here he is.

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The rubber mask was never particularly convincing, but it was at

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least kind of a really visceral way of showing that he had been

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masked.

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And he had figured out a way to disguise himself as someone half

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foot short of that incident.

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Yeah, yeah.

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Well, masks can do that, can they?

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absolutely.

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I think that there's a big problem structurally here too, which is

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that the doctor and Sejila having a fight for no reason. doctor.

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The doctor sort of checks his watch, goes, oh, we're 23 minutes

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in.

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I'd better do something dangerous, you know, and he just gets up

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and fights to Jille for no reason at all.

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It is a pretty decent fight though.

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And it's and it's well shot.

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We got Tony Virgo directing.

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The only time he'll direct Doctor Who.

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You know, he went on to direct throughout the 80s.

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Lots of high-end stuff for British television at the time.

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So EastEnders, the bill.

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He went on to become a producer, including peak practice later

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on.

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I believe he did come out and work for the ABC for a while as

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well.

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We had it for a convention at some point, didn't we to it?

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Yeah, I'm sure he was.

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Yeah.

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Sorry.

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A distant memory.

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Sorry, sorry if you're listening, Tony.

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But this was his 2nd show that he'd worked on.

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He'd done 3 episodes of Angels.

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And then was asked to do Doctor Who, and he really seems to be

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going, right, this is my chance to prove myself because we get

253
00:10:58.559 --> 00:10:59.759
interesting camera angles.

254
00:10:59.820 --> 00:11:02.700
Great set design, really good lighting as well.

255
00:11:02.759 --> 00:11:07.139
And, you know, for the mediaeval banquet set, they ordered all

256
00:11:07.139 --> 00:11:10.740
this practical food so people could actually be eating and there's

257
00:11:10.740 --> 00:11:13.200
the Irish hounds there who...

258
00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:14.460
Oh, there's doggies on set.

259
00:11:14.519 --> 00:11:17.159
They're sort of historically accurate that Heddy got them in for

260
00:11:17.159 --> 00:11:18.360
both studio sessions.

261
00:11:18.419 --> 00:11:21.360
You know, he's he's actually really trying hard.

262
00:11:21.419 --> 00:11:27.539
I found myself constantly distracted by that suckling pig, like it

263
00:11:27.539 --> 00:11:29.820
was all I could look at, so I don't know what anyone was saying

264
00:11:29.820 --> 00:11:30.899
when that was on screen.

265
00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:35.100
And I also think where that sword fight differs from the fantastic

266
00:11:35.100 --> 00:11:40.019
sword fight in the sea devils is that it's set during a historical

267
00:11:40.019 --> 00:11:42.779
period before the invention of the sandwich.

268
00:11:42.840 --> 00:11:46.139
I think that really means they're slightly inferior.

269
00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:47.340
Yes, indeed.

270
00:11:47.340 --> 00:11:51.419
Well, I like the line, like, you know, best sawman in France

271
00:11:51.419 --> 00:11:52.919
fortunately, we are in England.

272
00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:55.919
I thought that was nice, but...

273
00:11:55.980 --> 00:11:56.820
You know, you're quite right.

274
00:11:56.940 --> 00:11:58.980
I mean, why are we having this sword fight?

275
00:11:59.039 --> 00:12:01.679
And then it goes, and then just for no reason, the master just

276
00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:04.080
stops and reveals himself, oh my, it's the master.

277
00:12:04.139 --> 00:12:06.240
Like, why even reveal yourself?

278
00:12:06.299 --> 00:12:08.580
And then Tegan gets to throw a knife at the master?

279
00:12:08.700 --> 00:12:10.440
In a most pathetic way, ever.

280
00:12:10.500 --> 00:12:12.419
Even if he plucks it out of the air.

281
00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:13.500
He just grabs it.

282
00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:14.399
He catches it.

283
00:12:14.460 --> 00:12:16.919
I just wanted her to get it and go, ah, you know, like real

284
00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:17.639
venom.

285
00:12:17.700 --> 00:12:19.320
But, oh, yeah.

286
00:12:19.379 --> 00:12:20.700
It's stupid but it's cool.

287
00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:21.899
The knife moment.

288
00:12:22.019 --> 00:12:22.679
I think that is cool.

289
00:12:22.740 --> 00:12:25.679
I really love the Dr. and Tegan relationship in the 1st episode.

290
00:12:25.740 --> 00:12:28.320
She's so cold out by location.

291
00:12:28.379 --> 00:12:30.899
They had just, they just had this lovely relationship.

292
00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:34.259
There's a real warmth to it and it's progressed.

293
00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:35.460
It's just so evident.

294
00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:36.840
Yeah, it's great.

295
00:12:36.899 --> 00:12:40.379
You do get the impression and big finish up now, I think

296
00:12:40.379 --> 00:12:41.580
slaughtered some stories in here.

297
00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:44.399
You do get the impression that some time has passed since

298
00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:45.059
Enlightenment.

299
00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:48.899
Tegan is still slightly suspicious of Turbo.

300
00:12:49.019 --> 00:12:50.700
Like when he's off he's off by himself.

301
00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:52.919
She's kind of constantly saying, where's Turlo?

302
00:12:52.980 --> 00:12:53.580
What's he up to?

303
00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:57.659
But I, I, you know, she has accepted what has happened

304
00:12:57.659 --> 00:12:58.320
previously.

305
00:12:58.379 --> 00:13:00.539
Although we did end the last story, didn't we?

306
00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:05.220
I think Todd pointed this out between recordings that Turlo's like

307
00:13:05.220 --> 00:13:07.379
let's go back to my home planet and at the beginning of the story

308
00:13:07.379 --> 00:13:09.899
and at the end of the story, we were meant to be going to my home

309
00:13:09.899 --> 00:13:10.559
planet.

310
00:13:12.179 --> 00:13:13.860
So maybe no stories can fit in here.

311
00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:14.519
Yeah.

312
00:13:14.580 --> 00:13:15.059
Yeah.

313
00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:16.679
Bad luck.

314
00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:21.840
No picking up Nissa on this podcast watch.

315
00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:26.639
I've been complaining all season about lack of character deaths

316
00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:26.940
right?

317
00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:30.840
But we do get one here in episode...

318
00:13:30.899 --> 00:13:33.600
And it's actually very I'm very affected by it, you know?

319
00:13:33.659 --> 00:13:37.379
The master doesn't pull the trigger, but he gets somebody else to

320
00:13:37.379 --> 00:13:39.299
shoot him in the back with the arrow.

321
00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:42.840
He's kind of good looking and he's a good guy and he's got a

322
00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:46.679
relationship with, you know, our 2 main characters and they react

323
00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:49.620
to his death that he's actually a death that kind of lands.

324
00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:53.580
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. and it's not resolved It's not like the

325
00:13:53.580 --> 00:13:54.419
killer is brought to justice.

326
00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:58.799
We never see the crossbower, whoever it was, did the master

327
00:13:58.799 --> 00:13:59.639
hypnotise him.

328
00:13:59.700 --> 00:14:02.039
We don't know, but he never seems to be caught.

329
00:14:02.100 --> 00:14:05.519
Turlo just cops the blame for it, and they run off at the end.

330
00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:10.200
A lot of people in terms of the 5th doctor and Tegan have pointed

331
00:14:10.200 --> 00:14:13.440
to that scene where Tegan says, look at that huge bed at the dog's

332
00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:14.639
side, another way of keeping warm.

333
00:14:14.700 --> 00:14:16.019
Oh really?

334
00:14:16.379 --> 00:14:19.139
How did that slip under the radar?

335
00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:21.659
It's not that huge either, really, is it?

336
00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:22.440
No, no.

337
00:14:22.500 --> 00:14:25.139
Yeah, well, it's huge, you know, it's huge for the BBC.

338
00:14:25.259 --> 00:14:28.320
But there was an interesting aside in the production subtitles.

339
00:14:28.379 --> 00:14:30.960
The production subtitles don't raise the Dubel entende.

340
00:14:31.019 --> 00:14:38.220
They just mentioned chairs were only for luxury and nobility at

341
00:14:38.220 --> 00:14:38.639
this time.

342
00:14:38.820 --> 00:14:43.500
So it would be quite understandable for beds to be so big because

343
00:14:43.500 --> 00:14:47.100
it would be the only piece of furniture to sit on in most rooms in

344
00:14:47.100 --> 00:14:47.580
most bedrooms.

345
00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:49.919
But you will notice that this room has 2 chairs.

346
00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:53.460
And the doctor and Tegan don't sit in either.

347
00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:54.539
They don't sit at all.

348
00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:56.820
They just wander around going, I'm cold, I'm cold too.

349
00:14:56.879 --> 00:14:57.720
Here's a blanket.

350
00:14:57.779 --> 00:14:58.259
Oh, thank you.

351
00:14:58.320 --> 00:14:58.919
I'm cold.

352
00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:00.840
But somebody does sit in it.

353
00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:03.299
And that's the king, who's not really the king.

354
00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:08.159
But the newest member of the TARDIS crew.

355
00:15:08.220 --> 00:15:09.960
Chameleon.

356
00:15:10.139 --> 00:15:14.580
This would have been just an utterly terrible idea as it actually

357
00:15:14.580 --> 00:15:15.360
proved to be.

358
00:15:15.419 --> 00:15:18.659
I think the chameleon prop looks terrible.

359
00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:23.580
And I think it's actually not very well directed, particularly in

360
00:15:23.580 --> 00:15:26.639
that scene where he's being welcomed on board the TARDIS, where

361
00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:29.519
he's shot in such a way that you can't actually see his eyes.

362
00:15:29.580 --> 00:15:33.720
He's delivering dialogue, but his eyes aren't visible because he's

363
00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:34.139
looking away.

364
00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:37.259
I think there's a huge problem with the prop.

365
00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:38.460
I think it looks off putting.

366
00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:40.320
I think the mouth movements are horrific.

367
00:15:40.379 --> 00:15:44.279
It shares with canine a really loud motor.

368
00:15:44.340 --> 00:15:46.740
You can actually hear it moving.

369
00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:50.279
The neck, the crinkly neck is awful.

370
00:15:50.340 --> 00:15:56.340
It's, it's, it's an ugly prop, and it would have been a terrible

371
00:15:56.340 --> 00:15:58.860
idea to actually have it again.

372
00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:04.679
And just as they've got the TARDAS crew to be 2 people who are

373
00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:08.639
reasonably interesting and identifiable, you're going to put a

374
00:16:08.639 --> 00:16:11.820
space robot from the planet Zeraphas in the show.

375
00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:12.899
Like, why do that?

376
00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:14.100
What's wrong with you?

377
00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:16.440
What was John Nathan Turner thinking?

378
00:16:16.500 --> 00:16:19.019
Like they went and saw this thing in action.

379
00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:23.159
And it really even wasn't working properly quite then, but lots of

380
00:16:23.159 --> 00:16:23.639
promises.

381
00:16:23.700 --> 00:16:27.600
And it's just appalling.

382
00:16:27.659 --> 00:16:31.200
Like, we don't see it now after this until it's final story.

383
00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:33.539
And it's like, if you're going to introduce it.

384
00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:37.080
You'd think you'd be using it in every story in some aspect.

385
00:16:37.139 --> 00:16:39.480
That's my opinion. if you're going to be part of the crew.

386
00:16:39.539 --> 00:16:40.799
Like in the 5 doctors.

387
00:16:40.860 --> 00:16:41.820
Why can't you?

388
00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:44.100
Why can't you set it up to be a fake doctor, for example?

389
00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:48.360
Or in the awakening that's coming up, the malice is taking over

390
00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:52.139
things, why can't it take over chameleon and have it turn into

391
00:16:52.139 --> 00:16:54.360
some sort of person that walks out of the times?

392
00:16:54.419 --> 00:16:55.740
You know, there's just nothing.

393
00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:59.220
You do know there's a big production reason why this happens.

394
00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:05.400
So they had wanted to have a scene with Chameleon in the Awakening

395
00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:09.180
voiced by Mark Strickson, but it was cut for time.

396
00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:10.019
Yeah, it was filmed.

397
00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:10.859
It is on the DVD.

398
00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:11.279
Right.

399
00:17:11.339 --> 00:17:15.420
But they had problems getting the prop to work.

400
00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:17.579
Am I wrong about this?

401
00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:21.119
Because the guy who was originally meant to program it died

402
00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:22.980
tragically in a car accident.

403
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:27.059
And so they couldn't get it to work properly or quickly.

404
00:17:27.059 --> 00:17:28.140
I know that he died.

405
00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:28.799
All right?

406
00:17:28.859 --> 00:17:30.960
And the hardware guy was still around.

407
00:17:31.019 --> 00:17:33.839
And if you watch the documentary, I think it's on Planet of the

408
00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:38.339
Fire, he actually is like, oh, you know, we did such a great job

409
00:17:38.339 --> 00:17:42.119
with it and you know, he's so proud of what they managed to do.

410
00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:46.380
And everybody else's interview says that it's the biggest load of

411
00:17:46.380 --> 00:17:47.759
crap ever.

412
00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:51.960
But even so, even in like Planet of Fire.

413
00:17:52.019 --> 00:17:53.099
I know I'm jumping ahead.

414
00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:57.359
But even if you had him just standing there and then, you know

415
00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:00.180
somebody to transition into a real person, do you know what I

416
00:18:00.180 --> 00:18:00.359
mean?

417
00:18:00.420 --> 00:18:04.079
Well, and then using it that way and not really seeing the robot.

418
00:18:04.140 --> 00:18:08.700
But I, I mean, I hate, I would hate there to be a shape shifting

419
00:18:08.700 --> 00:18:10.740
character on, in the TARDIS.

420
00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:15.059
I just hate, it's so stupid and so science fiction-y an idea.

421
00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:17.519
Yeah, it's been like early Deep Space 9.

422
00:18:17.579 --> 00:18:21.000
It took them a while to figure out what to do with Odo, who ended

423
00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:22.920
up being a magnificent character.

424
00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:26.339
But very early on, he's just there occasionally to shimmer into a

425
00:18:26.339 --> 00:18:29.400
pile of goo or to turn into something to be smuggled on board a

426
00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:30.000
ship, you know.

427
00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:33.059
For the 1st season, Odo's a McGuffin.

428
00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:36.359
But then they figure out his backstory and his relationship with

429
00:18:36.359 --> 00:18:40.440
Kira and he's probably my favourite character on that series.

430
00:18:40.500 --> 00:18:41.819
Great performance too.

431
00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:43.319
Yeah, Renee Aub- Jean-ois.

432
00:18:43.380 --> 00:18:47.339
In terms of Chameleon, I've tried to research what happened

433
00:18:47.339 --> 00:18:51.660
exactly to the programmer, because at 1st I heard he died in a car

434
00:18:51.660 --> 00:18:55.740
accident just before the King's Demons, but the guy who built the

435
00:18:55.740 --> 00:18:59.940
model who's still with us and still owns Chameleon, says he died

436
00:18:59.940 --> 00:19:03.119
shortly after Planet of Fire in a sailing accident.

437
00:19:03.180 --> 00:19:04.559
So I don't I don't know.

438
00:19:04.619 --> 00:19:08.700
You know, he was his mate, so I probably side with him.

439
00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:13.920
But the thing that just baffles me about chameleon is.

440
00:19:14.819 --> 00:19:17.279
Why not just have an actor?

441
00:19:17.339 --> 00:19:20.039
He's a shape shifting robot.

442
00:19:20.099 --> 00:19:22.980
You know, the prop can appear for 5 minutes at the beginning of

443
00:19:22.980 --> 00:19:27.420
episode one for which you need 4 weeks programming time.

444
00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:30.420
And then he then he can turn into Christopher Brown.

445
00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:32.940
Get him to look into Tegan's mind and pull out the image of

446
00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:36.059
Mariner because, oh, wouldn't Christopher Brown, a Mariner, have

447
00:19:36.059 --> 00:19:36.839
made a good companion?

448
00:19:36.900 --> 00:19:37.740
Yeah.

449
00:19:37.740 --> 00:19:40.859
And Chameleon can have the whole thing about discovering humanity

450
00:19:40.859 --> 00:19:45.180
and discovering emotion because you do get glimpses of Chameleon's

451
00:19:45.180 --> 00:19:47.279
character here and he's an he's arrogant.

452
00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:50.640
You know, he and who knows where to show end.

453
00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:53.339
I I'm in the charges now.

454
00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:54.059
A ha ha.

455
00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:56.700
Yeah, there's a bit of character there in the last 5 minutes.

456
00:19:56.759 --> 00:19:58.319
Is that the ending line?

457
00:19:58.380 --> 00:19:59.460
Who knows where it shall end?

458
00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:03.000
No, the ending the ending line is the doctor saying, we're going

459
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:03.480
there already.

460
00:20:03.539 --> 00:20:05.460
Oh, the eye of Orion.

461
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:09.000
That's a very strange bit too, where he's mean to Tegan, sort of

462
00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:11.279
suddenly and threatens to put her off the ship like at the

463
00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:13.559
beginning of the reign of terror.

464
00:20:13.619 --> 00:20:14.819
Bitch scene.

465
00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:18.660
I think there, I think there is a bit of cleverness there because

466
00:20:18.660 --> 00:20:21.539
of course, you know, we've noted that, and that Nissa was the

467
00:20:21.539 --> 00:20:25.019
Peacekeeper. and now Nissa has been gone for 2 stories.

468
00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:28.140
And, you know, back in season 19, Tegan was pushing the doctor

469
00:20:28.140 --> 00:20:28.559
out.

470
00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:30.720
It's like, you got to get me home and the broken clock keeps

471
00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:31.079
better.

472
00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:32.099
Time and diet.

473
00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:35.099
So I think at this point the doctor's just going, right, okay, you

474
00:20:35.099 --> 00:20:36.180
want to have a temper tantrum?

475
00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:37.500
fine, I'm putting you off.

476
00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:40.380
And immediately Tegan's like, well, I don't want to leave, and the

477
00:20:40.380 --> 00:20:41.700
doctor says, oh, okay, then.

478
00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:46.799
I, I, I think that's actually a subtle reversal of, Yeah, we did

479
00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:50.880
last season, kind of say, why did Tegan and the doctor keep

480
00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:51.900
hanging out together.

481
00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:55.920
But here we kind of get the answers to that because they've got

482
00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:56.819
each other's measure now.

483
00:20:56.880 --> 00:20:59.460
They know they know how to push each other's buttons and they also

484
00:20:59.460 --> 00:21:00.299
know how to react.

485
00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:07.740
And it's nowhere near as as bad as the next female companion will

486
00:21:07.740 --> 00:21:11.460
be treated in the TARDIS because you never seriously believe that

487
00:21:11.460 --> 00:21:14.519
the doctor's doing a billy and saying, right, next stop off the

488
00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:15.539
ship, Chesterman.

489
00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:19.380
You know, you know that the doctor is winding Tegan up, just the

490
00:21:19.380 --> 00:21:21.059
way that Tegan winds the doctor up.

491
00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:24.359
It's quite a cute moment, but Richard did point out during the

492
00:21:24.359 --> 00:21:26.819
week that Pete at the end going, oh, no, that's where we're going

493
00:21:26.819 --> 00:21:27.119
anyway.

494
00:21:27.180 --> 00:21:28.319
It's a Scooby-Doo ending.

495
00:21:28.380 --> 00:21:36.000
You know, thankfully we cut before Mark Strixen goes, oh, You know

496
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:37.859
you should have cut to a chameleon laughing.

497
00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:42.299
I was annoyed at the time that Chameleon spends like a year in a

498
00:21:42.299 --> 00:21:42.779
cupboard.

499
00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:45.839
Like it just annoyed me that he was never mentioned or brought up

500
00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:46.019
again.

501
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:48.180
What happens to it in frontios?

502
00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:49.019
Is he the hat stand?

503
00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:50.519
Does he transmogrophone?

504
00:21:50.579 --> 00:21:53.819
In reality, it's, thank goodness, really.

505
00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:54.779
Yeah, well, that's right.

506
00:21:54.839 --> 00:21:57.960
I can't think of a bad Doctor Who story that couldn't be made much

507
00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:00.359
much worse by the edition of Chameleon.

508
00:22:00.420 --> 00:22:03.359
Do you know that when I originally saw this as a kid, because we

509
00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:09.420
got the stories like one episode a night, 5 nights a week, I

510
00:22:09.420 --> 00:22:11.160
actually wanted chameleon.

511
00:22:11.220 --> 00:22:13.259
You know, when it turns into Tegan, I thought they might turn it

512
00:22:13.259 --> 00:22:16.740
into Missa, grows really warning.

513
00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:20.279
And I really wanted it to be missa, like to have a little cameo

514
00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:24.359
like what um atrocan. he turns her into Tegan.

515
00:22:24.420 --> 00:22:27.660
And does he, they walk into the Tartars and, yeah, yeah.

516
00:22:27.660 --> 00:22:29.099
And doesn't he say something to Turlo?

517
00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:31.740
Like, yes, I'm afraid so or something.

518
00:22:31.859 --> 00:22:35.099
It's really funny too, because doesn't Tegan say, can anyone else

519
00:22:35.099 --> 00:22:36.180
see this or something?

520
00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:37.859
Yeah, there's another bee in here.

521
00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:39.240
And Turlo says something that?

522
00:22:39.299 --> 00:22:40.019
Yes, unfortunately.

523
00:22:41.460 --> 00:22:45.779
I will say as a kid, because this is another one I came to during

524
00:22:45.779 --> 00:22:47.579
the 1990s repeat season.

525
00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:48.539
So around 11 or 12.

526
00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:51.059
As a kid, chameleons are great.

527
00:22:51.119 --> 00:22:56.880
I loved Chameleon as a kid and there was a BBC book, The Ultimate

528
00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:01.079
Treasure by Christopher Buellus, which uses Chameleon in a very

529
00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:01.680
interesting way.

530
00:23:01.740 --> 00:23:06.059
And I won't spoil anything else because he comes up in there, but

531
00:23:06.059 --> 00:23:08.759
you kind of read that and go, actually, the TV show could have

532
00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:09.119
done this.

533
00:23:09.420 --> 00:23:14.400
In the end, he just represents not seeing the forest for the

534
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:14.759
trees.

535
00:23:14.819 --> 00:23:17.819
They kind of go, hey, we can have this robot and hey, you can be a

536
00:23:17.819 --> 00:23:19.559
shapeshifter and they get hung up on the robot bit.

537
00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:23.039
It's like, I, you know, I agree with you, Nathan.

538
00:23:23.099 --> 00:23:25.500
Shapeshifting characters can be an easy out.

539
00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:28.619
Like, sometimes they used well, like Space 1999 season two.

540
00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:32.460
Not that it's a great TV show anyway, but the conceit that Maya

541
00:23:32.460 --> 00:23:35.220
can turn into an animal, opens the plot up.

542
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:38.880
Or they can see that she can turn into a guy in a kind of shaggy

543
00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:41.039
nylon suit at will.

544
00:23:41.099 --> 00:23:42.180
Yeah, yeah.

545
00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:44.819
See, I think that's always awful.

546
00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:48.119
You know, the scene where Maya realises that turning into an eagle

547
00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:51.480
or something will solve our problems is just sort of cringeworthy

548
00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:52.440
and embarrassing.

549
00:23:52.500 --> 00:23:56.579
And to have that all the time in Doctor Who, the Doctor Who is now

550
00:23:56.579 --> 00:24:01.500
a program about, you know, the Doctor and some friends and a crazy

551
00:24:01.500 --> 00:24:03.059
shape shifting robot.

552
00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:04.140
That's awful.

553
00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:07.619
And particularly when the robot is so, so off-putting.

554
00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:12.660
I mean, canine, you know, is a box, you know, joined to another

555
00:24:12.660 --> 00:24:19.079
box with a tube and he's so loveable and relatable, you know, and

556
00:24:19.079 --> 00:24:21.720
he wags his tail and all of that and he's got a couple of great

557
00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:23.160
actors doing the performance.

558
00:24:23.220 --> 00:24:25.259
You know, this is awful.

559
00:24:25.380 --> 00:24:28.619
Yeah, I think the only way chameleons, shape shifting abilities

560
00:24:28.619 --> 00:24:29.579
could have worked.

561
00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:32.099
And as I mentioned early, we get a glimpse of his character and

562
00:24:32.099 --> 00:24:35.880
he's like glib and, you know, what have you.

563
00:24:35.940 --> 00:24:37.140
I think it really would work.

564
00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:40.380
He'd chosen a human form and then when, you know, people say to

565
00:24:40.380 --> 00:24:41.579
him, but why don't you change what?

566
00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:42.359
Well why should I?

567
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:46.140
I'm perfectly happy as I am.

568
00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:47.220
Why should I change for you?

569
00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:49.619
Basically, he should have been Quentin Crisp in space.

570
00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:54.599
I'm kind of thinking that maybe he is in all of the subsequent

571
00:24:54.599 --> 00:24:55.019
stories.

572
00:24:56.700 --> 00:24:59.339
Turlo's having a nap during this year.

573
00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:00.839
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

574
00:25:00.900 --> 00:25:01.319
Why not?

575
00:25:01.380 --> 00:25:04.140
Or, like, he's Chancellor Flavia this week.

576
00:25:04.619 --> 00:25:08.880
He's skip us, you know, next week and stuff like that.

577
00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:10.079
Why couldn't that be happening?

578
00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:12.720
Yeah, during the Awakening Turbo, I was like, I'm not visiting

579
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:14.400
Tegan's bloody grandad.

580
00:25:14.460 --> 00:25:15.599
Chameleon, you go do it.

581
00:25:15.660 --> 00:25:19.319
Oh, maybe the doctor does that sometimes.

582
00:25:19.380 --> 00:25:20.700
It could be the Merka.

583
00:25:21.059 --> 00:25:23.940
He was the Merka all the time.

584
00:25:24.359 --> 00:25:28.259
Look, it's just...

585
00:25:28.319 --> 00:25:29.220
Oh, God. okay.

586
00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:32.279
So next season, the drinking game, dear listeners, is chameleon

587
00:25:32.279 --> 00:25:32.579
watch.

588
00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:36.059
Yeah, who is chameleon in this story.

589
00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:37.319
I think we make it a regular theme.

590
00:25:39.240 --> 00:25:45.180
Look, it's just so ill conceived and, you know, he could have been

591
00:25:45.180 --> 00:25:49.619
a, yeah, come aboard the TARDIS will take you home and take him

592
00:25:49.619 --> 00:25:50.940
home and never mention me again.

593
00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:53.339
Or even if he then turns up and planning a fire, just have the

594
00:25:53.339 --> 00:25:57.119
doctor say, oh, yeah, we put a bit of cupboard.

595
00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:02.519
We didn't have a USBC port, so he ran out of battery.

596
00:26:02.579 --> 00:26:04.619
I did that with 2 teachers ages ago.

597
00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:06.779
Just kept forgetting to take him home.

598
00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:09.779
Had it written down and felt tip and everything, fast return.

599
00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:14.160
And they talk, anyhow, back to this scintillating story.

600
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:16.019
Story in inverted comments.

601
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:19.259
The doctor leaves a nasty surprise for the master at the end of

602
00:26:19.259 --> 00:26:22.319
this story, doesn't he, with the tissue compression eliminator set

603
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:25.019
to something so that it will cause problems with the master's

604
00:26:25.019 --> 00:26:25.500
TARDIS.

605
00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:25.920
Is that right?

606
00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:26.579
Yeah.

607
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:28.559
Is it what shrinks him for Planet of Fire?

608
00:26:28.619 --> 00:26:29.940
Is that why he ends up in a little box?

609
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:32.220
No, because we've got the 5 doctors.

610
00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:33.359
Oh, yeah, that's true.

611
00:26:33.420 --> 00:26:36.180
Maybe he goes back in time or something.

612
00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:39.420
So nothing happens to the master then because he's in the 5

613
00:26:39.420 --> 00:26:39.839
doctors.

614
00:26:39.900 --> 00:26:40.440
He's just fine.

615
00:26:40.500 --> 00:26:41.759
Yeah, well that's the thing.

616
00:26:41.819 --> 00:26:43.740
The last time we see the master, he's just shouting at the

617
00:26:43.740 --> 00:26:44.759
charters fading away.

618
00:26:44.819 --> 00:26:46.500
Mediaeval misfits.

619
00:26:46.619 --> 00:26:49.079
Great bit of dialogue, isn't it?

620
00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:49.680
Yeah.

621
00:26:49.740 --> 00:26:51.960
But I have read a fan theory.

622
00:26:52.019 --> 00:26:54.299
I'll probably bring this up again when we get to Planet of Fire.

623
00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:57.960
The, for the master, the 5 doctors takes place after Planet of

624
00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:00.000
Fire and the time lords pick him out of the flames.

625
00:27:00.059 --> 00:27:01.200
Oh, okay.

626
00:27:01.259 --> 00:27:03.359
I'm going with that I'm canonating that.

627
00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:04.200
Right.

628
00:27:04.380 --> 00:27:07.859
Shall we say something about the actual script for this story?

629
00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:12.180
Because we've given Terence Dudley a hard time for canine and

630
00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:13.980
Company and Black Orchid, but...

631
00:27:13.980 --> 00:27:18.960
The script works.

632
00:27:19.019 --> 00:27:20.880
It's a really boring premise though.

633
00:27:20.940 --> 00:27:24.299
I think it's been observed over and over again that Magna Carta

634
00:27:24.299 --> 00:27:28.140
doesn't actually have the big historic impact that this story

635
00:27:28.140 --> 00:27:29.099
claims it has.

636
00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:33.599
There's something kind of colonialist about, you know, disrupting

637
00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:37.200
England is going to be a huge sort of disaster for the human

638
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:37.680
race.

639
00:27:37.740 --> 00:27:38.460
Yeah.

640
00:27:38.460 --> 00:27:42.119
And even the story lamp shades it by saying it's small time

641
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:43.859
villainy even for his standards.

642
00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:44.819
It's boring.

643
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:47.099
And why does the doctor turn up there?

644
00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:48.299
Is it just a coincidence?

645
00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:51.599
Why is the master in disguise before the doctor turns up?

646
00:27:51.660 --> 00:27:54.660
Well, he just dresses up to relax, though. doesn't he?

647
00:27:54.720 --> 00:27:57.359
I mean, that's what the whole Khalid outfit was all about, too.

648
00:27:57.420 --> 00:27:58.559
Oh dear.

649
00:27:58.619 --> 00:28:01.200
I kind of want to see him missing in like a common Miranda fruit

650
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:03.539
hat and the doctor turns up and says, oh, I don't know if your

651
00:28:03.539 --> 00:28:05.579
cunning disguise is, no doubt. didn't know you were coming.

652
00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:08.519
This is just thirsty. something I threw on.

653
00:28:08.579 --> 00:28:13.740
This other things that, like, I don't find the horse jousting

654
00:28:13.740 --> 00:28:13.980
thing.

655
00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:15.480
I never find that exciting myself.

656
00:28:15.539 --> 00:28:17.339
I kind of go, whatever.

657
00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:19.319
And I really hate court gesters.

658
00:28:19.380 --> 00:28:21.180
I just want to just punch him in the face.

659
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:23.759
No, not even Terry Walsh.

660
00:28:23.819 --> 00:28:28.200
I will say, like, the location shooting, they only got about half

661
00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:30.960
the shots they wanted, that all the shots they missed.

662
00:28:31.019 --> 00:28:32.819
They did then plan to do in the studio.

663
00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:33.960
It wasn't a matter of running out of time.

664
00:28:34.019 --> 00:28:35.400
It was just the weather was so horrible.

665
00:28:35.460 --> 00:28:36.720
Yeah, you can tell.

666
00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:40.140
So the jousting was meant to run the same amount of, but have

667
00:28:40.140 --> 00:28:43.799
twice the amount of shots it was meant to be fast paced and action

668
00:28:43.140 --> 00:28:47.279
y and you were meant to see Chris Villiers stunt double fall off

669
00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:49.680
his horse and do a tumble and what have you.

670
00:28:49.740 --> 00:28:52.859
And just because of the weather, they couldn't do the stunts.

671
00:28:52.980 --> 00:28:54.240
I'm okay with that.

672
00:28:54.299 --> 00:28:56.819
Like, I'm okay that it's as short as it is because it does nothing

673
00:28:56.819 --> 00:28:58.319
for me and I wouldn't do anything more.

674
00:28:58.380 --> 00:29:01.259
I think my biggest disappointment with this is the fact that

675
00:29:01.259 --> 00:29:02.460
there's just not enough doors.

676
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:04.799
Yeah, where were the doors?

677
00:29:04.859 --> 00:29:06.240
There's the door.

678
00:29:06.299 --> 00:29:07.680
Well, I don't know.

679
00:29:07.740 --> 00:29:10.500
There is a door going into the king's chamber and I don't know.

680
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:12.480
Maybe Dudley's grown as a writer.

681
00:29:12.539 --> 00:29:16.259
He feels that his mind, the people going through doors trope

682
00:29:16.259 --> 00:29:18.839
really enough, and he'd like to move on and try more exciting

683
00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:21.240
things like closing people in Iron Maiden.

684
00:29:21.299 --> 00:29:22.200
Yes, yes.

685
00:29:22.259 --> 00:29:23.819
Well, I suppose that's a door.

686
00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:28.019
Although the Iron Maiden, as we understand it, And as we see it in

687
00:29:28.019 --> 00:29:33.900
the story is, I believe, a Victorian invention or 17, the 17th or

688
00:29:33.900 --> 00:29:36.059
18th century or sorry, 18th or 19th.

689
00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:38.579
Is it something the Victorians said that people did in the Middle

690
00:29:38.579 --> 00:29:38.940
Ages?

691
00:29:38.940 --> 00:29:40.319
Yeah, but they actually happened.

692
00:29:40.380 --> 00:29:45.180
I mean, I think where the confusion comes from were they were kind

693
00:29:45.180 --> 00:29:50.640
of... cylinders where people were being incarcerated, but they

694
00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:52.380
weren't spiked or anything like that.

695
00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:56.579
Um, I love the mentions of boiling in oil.

696
00:29:56.640 --> 00:30:01.440
I think that's always delightful for a sort of family, you know

697
00:30:01.440 --> 00:30:02.279
entertainment program.

698
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:05.039
And again, the production subtitles on the DVD are a wealth

699
00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:08.220
because they detail the 3 methods of boiling in oil that people

700
00:30:08.220 --> 00:30:08.759
would use.

701
00:30:08.819 --> 00:30:09.599
Delightful.

702
00:30:09.660 --> 00:30:12.839
I love the way that when it's announced that the doctor and Turlo

703
00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:13.980
are to be boiled in oil.

704
00:30:13.980 --> 00:30:16.019
Turlo looks at the doctor is really cross.

705
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:19.440
See?

706
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:21.059
See what you did.

707
00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:24.299
This is why I wanted to go home and we're here.

708
00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:27.359
So this wasn't supposed to be the final story of the season.

709
00:30:27.420 --> 00:30:30.059
We're supposed to cliffhanger into a Dalek story.

710
00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:30.480
Is that right?

711
00:30:30.539 --> 00:30:31.559
That's right. right.

712
00:30:31.619 --> 00:30:33.839
And the cliffhanger will survive and we'll see that at the end of

713
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:36.359
Frontios, where they get caught in the Dalek's time tunnel.

714
00:30:36.420 --> 00:30:39.420
And so that story was going to be called the return.

715
00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:42.900
It is made next year with very minor changes as Resurrection of

716
00:30:42.900 --> 00:30:43.619
the Daleks.

717
00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:48.059
So it was going to be called the return, presumably, so they could

718
00:30:48.059 --> 00:30:49.200
do an earth shock again.

719
00:30:49.259 --> 00:30:50.039
Yeah.

720
00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:52.200
And they wouldn't call it...

721
00:30:52.259 --> 00:30:53.759
And then they decided not to do that.

722
00:30:53.819 --> 00:30:55.619
But it was just going to be called the return.

723
00:30:55.680 --> 00:30:59.279
But the other part of the return was going to be the Daleks

724
00:30:59.279 --> 00:31:00.180
getting Davros back.

725
00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:03.720
And in the original production, it was to be directed by Peter

726
00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:04.500
Grimwade.

727
00:31:04.500 --> 00:31:08.579
And Michael Wisher was to be back as Davros.

728
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:09.359
Wow.

729
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:12.059
But he then couldn't make the dates the following year, but he had

730
00:31:12.059 --> 00:31:12.839
agreed to come back.

731
00:31:12.900 --> 00:31:16.740
And this actually led to Peter Grimway not directing for the

732
00:31:16.740 --> 00:31:17.279
program again.

733
00:31:17.339 --> 00:31:20.519
Because it fell through because of all the strikes and having to

734
00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:23.700
reschedule enlightenment into these slots and that sort of thing.

735
00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:24.779
That's part of it.

736
00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:27.779
But what also happened was, of course, everyone was very

737
00:31:27.779 --> 00:31:29.339
disappointed to lose the story.

738
00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:33.599
So Peter Grimway decided he would take Eric Saywood and the cast

739
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:36.839
out to lunch one day and he'd take JNT out to lunch the next day

740
00:31:36.839 --> 00:31:38.519
and he booked 2 lunches.

741
00:31:38.579 --> 00:31:41.099
But JNT heard about the 1st lunch first.

742
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:43.259
And had a giant hiszy.

743
00:31:43.259 --> 00:31:45.599
And kind of went, why am I not invited?

744
00:31:45.660 --> 00:31:49.319
First of all, when Peter Grimway turned up to take Eric Saywood

745
00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:50.400
out to lunch, that was a surprise.

746
00:31:50.460 --> 00:31:54.480
And it was going to be a surprise for John and John came into

747
00:31:54.480 --> 00:31:56.099
Eric's office and, oh, where's Eric?

748
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:57.660
Oh, he's going out to lunch with Peter Grimwaite.

749
00:31:57.720 --> 00:31:57.960
What?

750
00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:00.359
But that's why he still writes for the show because he still had a

751
00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:01.619
good relationship with Eric Saywood.

752
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:05.099
Well, this story really suffers because as I say, you know, the

753
00:32:05.099 --> 00:32:09.779
script, it's like, yes, it's boring and Magna Carta's not that, you

754
00:32:09.779 --> 00:32:11.819
know, it becomes important for other things.

755
00:32:11.880 --> 00:32:15.480
Magna Carta leads to other things, but in itself, it's not that

756
00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:15.839
important.

757
00:32:15.900 --> 00:32:19.079
And it doesn't help that the doctor at no point explains why we

758
00:32:19.079 --> 00:32:20.880
should care about Magna Carta.

759
00:32:20.940 --> 00:32:23.099
Like he says to Tegan at one point, don't you know your history?

760
00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:24.839
And she says, yes, I know my history and that's it.

761
00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:27.960
What it really feels like, though.

762
00:32:28.019 --> 00:32:30.240
This feels like part one and 2 of a 3 part story.

763
00:32:30.299 --> 00:32:34.680
It feels like the master should now go to London and do something

764
00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:38.579
with the real king and pose a bigger threat because, you know, even

765
00:32:38.579 --> 00:32:40.440
without the Android, the master's resourceful.

766
00:32:40.500 --> 00:32:42.720
He should still be able to do something, he should disguise

767
00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:43.619
himself as the king.

768
00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:45.420
Yeah he's good at that.

769
00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:46.500
But that's the thing.

770
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:50.220
It feels like there's more of this story to be told. or there

771
00:32:50.220 --> 00:32:50.940
should be anyway.

772
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:54.720
But yeah, compared to Terence Dudley's other contributions.

773
00:32:54.779 --> 00:32:57.059
This is bloody City of Death.

774
00:32:57.359 --> 00:33:03.059
I do think it also suffers from not leading into the Dalek story.

775
00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:06.119
So it's just this sort of rather limp ending to the season.

776
00:33:06.180 --> 00:33:09.539
Yeah, I always think of enlightenment as the end of the season.

777
00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:11.160
Then I suddenly go, oh yeah, this exists.

778
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:13.980
So I haven't done a ratings update forever.

779
00:33:14.460 --> 00:33:17.339
So yeah, how did the back end of the season perform?

780
00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:22.259
So, um, 5.800000 viewers tuned into episode one, 107th on the

781
00:33:22.259 --> 00:33:22.559
chart.

782
00:33:22.619 --> 00:33:26.460
So I think this is the worst placed and rated episode of the

783
00:33:26.460 --> 00:33:26.819
season.

784
00:33:26.819 --> 00:33:30.660
And then, um, episode 2 was 7.2, 6.6.

785
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:34.980
Um, you know, this season, as I mentioned before, the average is

786
00:33:34.980 --> 00:33:39.900
just over 7 million. 66th is a good chart position for this year.

787
00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:44.400
I think there's only 3 episodes inside the top 70 and most of the

788
00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:45.660
rest are between 70 and 100.

789
00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:49.859
So the show, as I mentioned, has slid down, you know, a good 30, 40

790
00:33:49.859 --> 00:33:51.960
places down the charts.

791
00:33:52.019 --> 00:33:54.660
And we've lost a couple of 1000000 viewers all season.

792
00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:57.720
Most of the episodes are between about 6.5 and 7.5 million.

793
00:33:57.779 --> 00:33:59.160
We're on air less.

794
00:33:59.220 --> 00:34:01.980
Like last year they're only on air for 13 weeks this year, 11

795
00:34:01.980 --> 00:34:02.339
weeks.

796
00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:03.059
Yeah.

797
00:34:03.059 --> 00:34:05.279
You know, losing 2000000 viewers. there has to be something.

798
00:34:05.339 --> 00:34:08.940
I think there's someone once said, I can't remember whether it was

799
00:34:08.940 --> 00:34:12.360
friend of the podcast, Peter Griffiths or not, that Doctor Who

800
00:34:12.360 --> 00:34:15.659
used to be on kind of all the time, and then it turns into

801
00:34:15.659 --> 00:34:17.519
something that's on for a couple of months a year.

802
00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:22.139
And when it's on all the time, or, you know, even half the year

803
00:34:22.139 --> 00:34:24.360
it's something that people are going to watch.

804
00:34:24.420 --> 00:34:28.260
Yeah, I know that the Saturday night thing wasn't working out for

805
00:34:28.260 --> 00:34:29.820
it necessarily.

806
00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:33.840
But now that it's just one of the many things that's on during the

807
00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:34.139
week.

808
00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:35.340
Is that the reason?

809
00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:38.639
Well, it could well be because it's, you know, it's shunted around

810
00:34:38.639 --> 00:34:42.480
the Monday to Friday slot over the 3 Peter Davidson years.

811
00:34:42.539 --> 00:34:43.559
It's not consistent.

812
00:34:43.619 --> 00:34:46.920
John Nathan Turner did actually try to get it moved back to

813
00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:49.860
Saturday nights for this season and Saturday night turn and once a

814
00:34:49.860 --> 00:34:54.059
week because his idea was started a bit later in the year and have

815
00:34:54.059 --> 00:34:58.380
it run through till November to have 5 doctors screen right at the

816
00:34:58.380 --> 00:34:58.920
end of the season.

817
00:34:58.980 --> 00:35:02.699
Now, of course, you know, obviously with the return being

818
00:35:02.699 --> 00:35:04.559
scuppered, that wouldn't have worked anyway.

819
00:35:04.619 --> 00:35:08.699
But it seems a bit odd to me that his 1st season on Saturday

820
00:35:08.699 --> 00:35:13.440
nights performed so poorly, his 2nd season, weeknights, performed

821
00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:16.199
much better, literally double the ratings in some cases.

822
00:35:16.260 --> 00:35:20.099
It seems an odd choice for him to make, but at the same time, the

823
00:35:20.099 --> 00:35:23.639
BBC had been getting letters saying, look, Doctor Who has moved

824
00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:29.699
from 530 or 6 o'clock on a Saturday night to 730 Monday and

825
00:35:29.699 --> 00:35:30.300
Tuesday.

826
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:33.179
My children are usually in bed by them, but they want to stay up

827
00:35:33.179 --> 00:35:35.400
and watch Doctor Who, and then they're excited about it and they

828
00:35:35.400 --> 00:35:36.360
don't get to bed for another hour.

829
00:35:36.420 --> 00:35:39.599
So I think actually maybe he was being sensitive to that viewer

830
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:39.840
thing.

831
00:35:39.900 --> 00:35:43.260
I know it sounds funny, but if you look at interviews, Peter

832
00:35:43.260 --> 00:35:46.679
Davidson gives on like BBC Breakfast or News at one and that kind

833
00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:50.340
of thing, quite often, they will talk to him about the

834
00:35:50.340 --> 00:35:51.059
scheduling.

835
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:54.960
And there's an interview, I think it's on nationwide for the 5

836
00:35:54.960 --> 00:36:01.260
doctors and you've got, uh, You've got Peter, uh, Pat and John and

837
00:36:01.260 --> 00:36:03.059
Pat says something lines up.

838
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:06.059
Oh, you know, we were on all year, not like this guy, and the host

839
00:36:06.059 --> 00:36:09.119
actually says, well, yes, it's tears before bedtime for me, because

840
00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:10.619
I won't let them stay up and watch it.

841
00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:13.739
So you got to wonder if that has an effect on the ratings.

842
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:18.239
I think also at this time, the BBC was having money taken out of

843
00:36:18.239 --> 00:36:18.420
it.

844
00:36:18.539 --> 00:36:23.639
And also, uh, department started to be farmed out because remember

845
00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:26.940
by the end of the decade, Doctor Who's the only drama they're

846
00:36:26.940 --> 00:36:27.539
making in-house.

847
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:31.800
So the drama departments at the BBC are becoming less and less and

848
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:34.920
less, you've got more American imports over on ITV.

849
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:37.019
So I think that affects it.

850
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:39.059
I think yeah, the presence of it.

851
00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:43.619
If they have maybe kept it weeknights but done one a week, it

852
00:36:43.619 --> 00:36:44.699
feels bigger.

853
00:36:45.059 --> 00:36:47.400
It's in people's minds.

854
00:36:47.460 --> 00:36:48.599
Yes for longer.

855
00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:53.400
I mean, that might be a reflection too, on the amount of publicity

856
00:36:53.400 --> 00:36:56.400
that J and T does and all the little hooks he does to try and get

857
00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:56.940
publicity.

858
00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:01.500
Maybe last year was a spike caused by Pete's casting.

859
00:37:01.559 --> 00:37:04.739
Well, I, well, he certainly had a present, so he would have

860
00:37:04.739 --> 00:37:07.860
brought over fans from all creatures great and small.

861
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:09.659
Yeah, and the other things.

862
00:37:09.719 --> 00:37:10.260
That's right.

863
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:13.860
So, you know, they've come in to sample it, but, you know, even if

864
00:37:13.860 --> 00:37:18.059
you have, take that 2000000 off, if you compare like the 7000000

865
00:37:18.059 --> 00:37:21.840
this year to the 5000000 for Toms last season, there's still a

866
00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:22.739
differential then.

867
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:23.639
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

868
00:37:23.699 --> 00:37:26.880
So, it's not quite circling the drain yet.

869
00:37:26.940 --> 00:37:27.719
No.

870
00:37:27.780 --> 00:37:31.920
No, but, you know, the less it's on, the less it's in people's

871
00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:34.739
minds, the less there's that renewal of the younger audience.

872
00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:39.119
And yeah, it's it's never going to be on, even today.

873
00:37:39.179 --> 00:37:42.840
It's never going to be on now for more than 14 weeks of the year.

874
00:37:42.900 --> 00:37:47.039
So it's time for our Jenny Laird awards for most puzzling creative

875
00:37:47.039 --> 00:37:47.519
choice.

876
00:37:47.579 --> 00:37:51.119
And um, for me, it's a pretty easy one this time.

877
00:37:51.179 --> 00:37:57.360
My puzzling creative choice goes to John Nathan Turner for cutting

878
00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:00.000
the extra hour out of the terminus recording.

879
00:38:00.059 --> 00:38:02.280
You know, you've got the director offside.

880
00:38:02.340 --> 00:38:06.480
You've got the cast off side because something you always say told

881
00:38:06.480 --> 00:38:09.659
about when cast members are leaving and they bring their A game

882
00:38:09.659 --> 00:38:09.960
you know.

883
00:38:10.019 --> 00:38:12.539
Sarah Sutton knows she's leaving and then all of a sudden she

884
00:38:12.539 --> 00:38:15.539
knows she has to come back in 6 weeks to record more scenes and

885
00:38:15.539 --> 00:38:19.139
she's, you know, I look at those scenes and I can't tell that it's

886
00:38:19.139 --> 00:38:20.280
2 months later for her.

887
00:38:20.340 --> 00:38:21.119
She a very good actress.

888
00:38:21.179 --> 00:38:22.079
I'm not criticising her.

889
00:38:22.139 --> 00:38:26.039
But it's a matter of, there doesn't seem to have been any

890
00:38:26.039 --> 00:38:30.840
explanation forthcoming as to why the extra hour was yanked away

891
00:38:30.840 --> 00:38:31.739
so late.

892
00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:34.619
You know, if you had a set, if John Nathan Turner had a said to

893
00:38:34.619 --> 00:38:37.440
Mary Ridge. 2 days before, look, I'm really sorry.

894
00:38:37.500 --> 00:38:39.599
I cannot get that extra hour for you.

895
00:38:39.659 --> 00:38:42.000
Let's sit down with the shooting script and see what we can figure

896
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:43.260
out.

897
00:38:43.320 --> 00:38:44.460
That would have been fine.

898
00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:47.280
And that is a part of the job that the directors have to deal

899
00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:47.579
with.

900
00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:49.980
But she'd already lost 2 days of shooting.

901
00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:51.960
Something I didn't mention last week.

902
00:38:52.019 --> 00:38:55.500
The Kari and all their costumes had to be remade because they were

903
00:38:55.500 --> 00:38:59.400
in blue, even though they were in no blue screen scenes.

904
00:38:59.460 --> 00:39:01.679
Mary Ridge didn't want to get into the position where all of a

905
00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:01.980
sudden.

906
00:39:02.039 --> 00:39:02.579
Oh, crap.

907
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:04.800
I can't blue screen, blue screen.

908
00:39:04.860 --> 00:39:07.260
And so the costumes had to be entirely remade in white.

909
00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:10.139
You know, and Mary Ridge had said no blue.

910
00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:13.079
You know, it kind of sounds like the Julia Smith on the underwater

911
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:17.460
menace situation in that no one was helping her on her 1st time

912
00:39:17.460 --> 00:39:21.239
around to make the show she wanted to make because we see in Blake

913
00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:21.900
7 series 4.

914
00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:23.699
She's an incredibly talented director.

915
00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:25.559
She cares about making the show look good.

916
00:39:25.619 --> 00:39:28.260
And as she put it, part of the reason she never went on the show

917
00:39:28.260 --> 00:39:28.500
again.

918
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:31.619
She was so outraged because she never finishes late.

919
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:33.719
That was that was her thing.

920
00:39:33.780 --> 00:39:37.079
She does complex things and she gets them done on time, but she

921
00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:38.699
was just treated completely unfairly.

922
00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:41.280
And I'm not someone to bash John Nathan Turner.

923
00:39:41.340 --> 00:39:44.099
I'm not even really someone to bash Eric Saywood. criticise him.

924
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:47.699
But I'm also able to acknowledge when he does things well, but

925
00:39:47.699 --> 00:39:52.260
John Nathan Turner, what the hell were you thinking cutting an

926
00:39:52.260 --> 00:39:54.000
hour out of a show that had already lost 2 days?

927
00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:57.300
I want to bash Eric, say it, actually.

928
00:39:57.360 --> 00:39:58.559
I thought you might.

929
00:39:58.619 --> 00:39:58.980
Yeah.

930
00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:02.400
We've already spoken a lot about the decision to make Chameleon a

931
00:40:02.400 --> 00:40:05.699
regular, so I'm going to disallow that for my journey to their

932
00:40:05.699 --> 00:40:10.260
nomination this time, although I think it's perhaps the worst

933
00:40:10.260 --> 00:40:12.780
creative decision of the entire.

934
00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:13.679
Oh no.

935
00:40:14.340 --> 00:40:17.039
That is my, that is my choice.

936
00:40:17.099 --> 00:40:18.239
I can't think of anything worse.

937
00:40:18.300 --> 00:40:21.000
I mean, this is a season that had Arc of Infinity with all of its

938
00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:26.940
puzzling creative choices, including bringing Omega back as some

939
00:40:26.940 --> 00:40:31.019
guy who's called Omega, but seems to bear no relationship with our

940
00:40:31.019 --> 00:40:34.619
Omega, who we loved all these years.

941
00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:38.099
That was puzzling and we talked about it quite a lot on our Arc of

942
00:40:38.099 --> 00:40:43.139
Infinity episode, but that could be my my 2nd ranking one.

943
00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:47.519
I don't think it can possibly eclipse, whoever's decision, J and

944
00:40:47.519 --> 00:40:51.420
T's decision, presumably, to bring Chameleon on board as a full

945
00:40:51.119 --> 00:40:52.019
time companion.

946
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:53.460
Terrible idea.

947
00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:54.539
Right.

948
00:40:54.599 --> 00:40:58.980
Well, I've got a number of nominations for my Jenny Laird and one

949
00:40:58.980 --> 00:41:00.360
of my nominations is the chameleon.

950
00:41:00.420 --> 00:41:02.099
Another nomination.

951
00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:05.579
I think it's for Eric Sayward, looking at these scripts and just

952
00:41:05.579 --> 00:41:11.099
having these corridors and corridors and no deaths and no deaths

953
00:41:11.099 --> 00:41:15.179
and I just, it's just a creative puzzling choice to me that we

954
00:41:15.179 --> 00:41:18.420
didn't break it up with something that wasn't that, and that was

955
00:41:18.420 --> 00:41:22.019
doing my head in for 4 stories, and I think that's a really big

956
00:41:22.019 --> 00:41:22.679
one for me.

957
00:41:22.739 --> 00:41:24.539
What was my other one?

958
00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:24.840
Oh.

959
00:41:25.500 --> 00:41:27.360
The casting?

960
00:41:27.780 --> 00:41:30.239
Of the Lord President.

961
00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:35.400
In Arc of Infinity is one of the worst decisions in the history of

962
00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:39.239
the show, and really, that is like, I think I'm just going to have

963
00:41:39.239 --> 00:41:40.019
to put that in.

964
00:41:40.019 --> 00:41:43.739
As much as I don't like that other, I hate him so much, so much.

965
00:41:43.860 --> 00:41:45.420
I'd even care who his name was.

966
00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:48.179
That's sack, still, listen.

967
00:41:48.239 --> 00:41:50.519
I should have been sacked as far as I'm concerned.

968
00:41:50.579 --> 00:41:53.760
The creative puzzling choice is also from John Nathan Turner, or

969
00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:57.059
grasping onto this thing about the publicity for the season, about

970
00:41:57.059 --> 00:42:01.440
all these returning 20th anniversary, you know, concepts, like

971
00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:05.639
they're just, just nothingness there, really, like it's just a big

972
00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:06.059
fizzle.

973
00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:10.260
So there's a lot of things here that I can nominate for this

974
00:42:10.260 --> 00:42:13.199
season, but I think Leonard Sachs is it.

975
00:42:13.320 --> 00:42:16.320
You see, I feel the same way.

976
00:42:16.380 --> 00:42:19.380
I feel there's so many things in this season that go wrong, but at

977
00:42:19.380 --> 00:42:22.559
the same time, I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would, but

978
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:24.059
I have to agree with you there, Todd.

979
00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:26.820
I think a big problem is when they got up and said, we're having

980
00:42:26.820 --> 00:42:29.699
something returning in every story.

981
00:42:29.820 --> 00:42:32.820
It's like if they hadn't have said that, the anticipation wouldn't

982
00:42:32.820 --> 00:42:33.360
have been there.

983
00:42:33.420 --> 00:42:37.019
And the whole season would have been more favourably received.

984
00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:41.099
Matt Smith runs into the same problem with Series 6 where Stephen

985
00:42:41.099 --> 00:42:43.619
Moffatt built up all this anticipation.

986
00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:45.719
Oh, everything changes this season.

987
00:42:45.780 --> 00:42:48.900
You will notice that season seven, season eight, season nine, the

988
00:42:48.900 --> 00:42:49.619
upcoming season 10.

989
00:42:49.860 --> 00:42:52.500
Stephen Moffatt says very little about what to expect now.

990
00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:57.780
Because this isn't necessarily the producers being disingenuous

991
00:42:57.780 --> 00:42:58.679
but any kind of show.

992
00:42:58.739 --> 00:43:03.000
If you big it up to, the more you big it up, the more people will

993
00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:07.500
be disappointed because your words telling us how amazing it's

994
00:43:07.500 --> 00:43:09.239
going to be, they're going to be interpreted differently by

995
00:43:09.239 --> 00:43:09.599
different people.

996
00:43:09.659 --> 00:43:11.519
If you come to this season.

997
00:43:11.639 --> 00:43:15.360
As I originally did, not being aware that it's meant to be this

998
00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:16.679
big celebratory season.

999
00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:21.900
You get some thoughtful sci-fi stories, most of which don't really

1000
00:43:21.900 --> 00:43:22.559
hang together.

1001
00:43:22.619 --> 00:43:28.019
So this is only kind of like a back ported intention.

1002
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:31.260
Like they didn't set out to have something recurring.

1003
00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:32.699
I think that's the other part.

1004
00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:35.699
Well, because I mean in season 21, there are a number of returning

1005
00:43:35.699 --> 00:43:37.380
elements as well.

1006
00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:38.159
Yeah.

1007
00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:41.880
And it does become something the show does until Carmel takes over

1008
00:43:41.880 --> 00:43:44.579
and puts a stop to it with Paradise Towers.

1009
00:43:44.639 --> 00:43:47.820
So it probably would have happened anyway.

1010
00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:49.920
This was just a publicity thing.

1011
00:43:49.980 --> 00:43:50.820
Yeah, yeah.

1012
00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:53.940
But I think the problem isn't bringing stuff back. the problem is

1013
00:43:53.940 --> 00:43:56.639
putting up a big billboard saying we're bringing stuff back.

1014
00:43:56.699 --> 00:43:58.980
I think bringing stuff back is a problem.

1015
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:02.820
Okay, pics of the week.

1016
00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:05.940
I actually have a Twitter account, I think everyone should

1017
00:44:05.940 --> 00:44:06.239
follow.

1018
00:44:06.300 --> 00:44:09.840
It's called at who labels.

1019
00:44:09.900 --> 00:44:14.099
And it's a Twitter account posting pictures of the various labels

1020
00:44:14.099 --> 00:44:16.199
and signs that appear in Doctor Who.

1021
00:44:16.260 --> 00:44:20.519
I don't think they've done vacuum shield off yet, but they have

1022
00:44:20.519 --> 00:44:22.860
specifically said in sort of their raison d'asre.

1023
00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:25.019
They're avoiding all the big signs for now.

1024
00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:27.960
So they're putting up little signs and seeing if people get them

1025
00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:32.760
like Bessie's anti-theft device and the fast return switch.

1026
00:44:32.820 --> 00:44:36.539
It's just this joyful Twitter account.

1027
00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:38.880
So that is at who labels.

1028
00:44:38.940 --> 00:44:40.679
Alright, I'm following them now.

1029
00:44:40.980 --> 00:44:42.539
Todd?

1030
00:44:42.539 --> 00:44:46.559
My pick of the week. is not Dr. Who.

1031
00:44:46.619 --> 00:44:52.920
It's an album by the band Wang Chung. who are very big in the

1032
00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:57.119
1980s having such hits as dance hall days.

1033
00:44:57.179 --> 00:45:00.119
Let's go, and probably the most famous one. everybody had fun

1034
00:45:00.119 --> 00:45:00.420
tonight.

1035
00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:04.500
Off their 3rd album, Warmer Side of Cool.

1036
00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:05.460
There are 2 tracks.

1037
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:10.019
The 1st one is called Praying to a New God, which I think relates

1038
00:45:10.019 --> 00:45:12.239
rather nicely to Snake Dance.

1039
00:45:12.300 --> 00:45:15.599
And the 3rd track is called Snake Dance.

1040
00:45:15.659 --> 00:45:16.619
Oh, wow.

1041
00:45:16.679 --> 00:45:21.179
But it relates to a different sort of snake dancing, and I'll just

1042
00:45:21.179 --> 00:45:23.579
leave it at that, and that's my pick of the week.

1043
00:45:23.639 --> 00:45:25.320
Go and check it out on iTunes.

1044
00:45:25.380 --> 00:45:25.860
Cool.

1045
00:45:25.860 --> 00:45:29.699
Mine isn't sort of particularly sort of relevant or contemporary

1046
00:45:29.699 --> 00:45:34.199
but over the last school holiday, when I was on the plane, I read

1047
00:45:34.199 --> 00:45:39.719
The Writer's Tale again by Russell Davies and Benjamin Cook.

1048
00:45:39.780 --> 00:45:43.800
And I love the Russell T. Davies era of Doctor Who.

1049
00:45:43.860 --> 00:45:45.000
I really do.

1050
00:45:45.059 --> 00:45:48.480
He's my obviously, you know, my favourite of the 2 producers.

1051
00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:52.260
And those 1st 4 seasons of Doctor Who, I think, are terrific.

1052
00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:53.400
They're really great.

1053
00:45:53.460 --> 00:45:58.500
And I also sort of feel that we got to know the production because

1054
00:45:58.500 --> 00:46:02.340
we had confidential and we had them all on commentaries and, you

1055
00:46:02.340 --> 00:46:05.760
know, we knew David and Julie and Catherine and all of those

1056
00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:10.260
people and and so there's something really nice about reminiscing

1057
00:46:10.260 --> 00:46:11.039
about that era.

1058
00:46:11.099 --> 00:46:15.420
And this is a email correspondence between Doctor Who magazine's

1059
00:46:15.420 --> 00:46:19.440
Benjamin Cook and Russell T. Davis about basically the production

1060
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:22.320
of season 4 and the specials.

1061
00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:27.780
And it's illustrated with cartoons by Russell T. Davis, who ends

1062
00:46:27.780 --> 00:46:31.860
up being a really talented cartoonist, and he draws cartoons of

1063
00:46:31.860 --> 00:46:35.159
the characters and scenes that he imagines and things, and he also

1064
00:46:35.159 --> 00:46:38.820
talks about what writing is like, and he reflects on his previous

1065
00:46:38.820 --> 00:46:39.900
shows and stuff.

1066
00:46:39.960 --> 00:46:41.099
It's really, really good.

1067
00:46:41.460 --> 00:46:44.280
Yeah, yeah, it's it's amazing.

1068
00:46:44.340 --> 00:46:49.860
And I know there are a few of our listeners who are not huge new

1069
00:46:49.860 --> 00:46:50.760
series fans.

1070
00:46:50.940 --> 00:46:54.840
I would also recommend this book to them because, as you say

1071
00:46:54.840 --> 00:46:58.739
Russell goes into quite a bit of detail and quite a bit of self

1072
00:46:57.840 --> 00:47:02.880
analysis as to the positives and the negatives of the new series.

1073
00:47:02.940 --> 00:47:08.280
And in particular, his analysis of the next doctor and the

1074
00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:11.880
solution at the end of the next doctor and how he would have done

1075
00:47:11.880 --> 00:47:15.840
it differently and why he kind of says, why did I not think of

1076
00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:18.119
this new plot ending before?

1077
00:47:18.179 --> 00:47:21.000
It's so it's so obvious and I've made a terrible mistake.

1078
00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:23.760
He's he's an incredibly humble writer.

1079
00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:25.800
From these emails.

1080
00:47:25.860 --> 00:47:27.719
So it is an amazing book.

1081
00:47:27.780 --> 00:47:31.920
And I would also say, um, to anyone who enjoys the book, you can

1082
00:47:31.920 --> 00:47:35.639
follow Benjamin Cook on Twitter at Benjamin underscore Cook, and

1083
00:47:35.639 --> 00:47:37.199
he's very entertaining on Twitter as well.

1084
00:47:58.260 --> 00:48:01.800
Right, well, that's all the time we have for season 20, and for

1085
00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:04.800
the King's demons, unless that missing third episode turns up.

1086
00:48:05.099 --> 00:48:07.139
Do come back next week.

1087
00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:11.760
However, we are back with a commentary on the 5 doctors.

1088
00:48:11.820 --> 00:48:14.639
And that is for all 4 of us.

1089
00:48:14.699 --> 00:48:16.980
Anything can happen in those 90 minutes.

1090
00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:20.400
Until then, you can find us online at flightthroughentirety.com

1091
00:48:20.400 --> 00:48:23.340
flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast.

1092
00:48:23.340 --> 00:48:26.219
Twitter over on Bondfinger, where continuing through the Roger

1093
00:48:26.219 --> 00:48:29.519
Moore era with Moonraker on bondfinger.com, on finger on Facebook

1094
00:48:29.519 --> 00:48:32.699
and iTunes and Bondfinger cast on Twitter, and I have the complete

1095
00:48:32.699 --> 00:48:37.860
60s rundown seasons one to 6 done on Doctor Who in 10 seconds over

1096
00:48:37.860 --> 00:48:38.639
on YouTube.

1097
00:48:38.699 --> 00:48:39.659
So check that out as well.

1098
00:48:39.719 --> 00:48:44.159
Until next time, may no one mind control your robots and turn them

1099
00:48:44.159 --> 00:48:45.059
into Jenna Fielding.

1100
00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:46.440
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1101
00:48:46.500 --> 00:48:47.699
Au revoir.

1102
00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:48.840
See you soon.

1103
00:48:54.900 --> 00:48:57.780
Backwards, flight through entire team.

1104
00:48:57.840 --> 00:49:00.119
Todd B will be, Nathan Bottomley and Brendan Jones.

1105
00:49:00.179 --> 00:49:02.219
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1106
00:49:02.280 --> 00:49:06.360
This episode, fairly obvious, was recorded on the 31st of July

1107
00:49:06.360 --> 00:49:06.900
2016.

1108
00:49:07.139 --> 00:49:09.539
Next episode will be released on October 15.

1109
00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:14.219
Fans of ill-conceived shapeshifters can enjoy the series Manimal

1110
00:49:14.219 --> 00:49:18.360
from 1983, now available on DVD for some reason.

1111
00:49:22.500 --> 00:49:24.539
Do you need cough?

1112
00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:26.760
No, but I'm having weird breathing issues.

1113
00:49:26.820 --> 00:49:27.599
Oh, okay.

1114
00:49:27.659 --> 00:49:28.800
Yeah, it's all right.

1115
00:49:28.860 --> 00:49:31.440
I should still live to the end of the recording session.