WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:44:50 1 00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:37.799 Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Fly Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast whose will is not weak. 2 00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:38.939 How dare? 3 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:39.479 Oh, Will. 4 00:00:39.539 --> 00:00:40.079 Sorry, okay. 5 00:00:40.140 --> 00:00:41.039 I'm Brendan. 6 00:00:41.100 --> 00:00:43.859 Ah, je m'appelle Nathan Estram. 7 00:00:43.859 --> 00:00:47.520 And the doctor is our loyal demon. 8 00:00:47.579 --> 00:00:50.520 Gum, golly, gum, gum, gum, gum. 9 00:00:50.579 --> 00:00:52.859 I don't know the words to this song. 10 00:00:52.920 --> 00:00:55.920 Gung, Gully, Gully, Gung, Gung, Gung, Gung. 11 00:00:55.979 --> 00:00:58.320 I hope you all will hum along. 12 00:00:58.380 --> 00:01:02.039 Gung, gung, gung, gung, gung. 13 00:01:02.100 --> 00:01:04.079 It's the king's demons. 14 00:01:10.140 --> 00:01:12.599 I'm so sorry, everybody. 15 00:01:13.079 --> 00:01:15.239 That's what I remember. 16 00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:20.700 From this story, as a kid, my sisters and I didn't know the lyrics to that, but we just remembered. 17 00:01:20.700 --> 00:01:24.780 The doctor was out lower D mine and like we're so not musically inclined in my family. 18 00:01:24.840 --> 00:01:28.980 So it was like this, that's the strumming of the, whatever they play. 19 00:01:29.040 --> 00:01:40.379 I was singing this really quite loudly around the house this morning, and I do know the words, and then I realised that they were really kind of insulting to my Muslim neighbours, so I stopped. 20 00:01:40.439 --> 00:01:44.400 Yeah, yeah, against the Saracen who we abhor. 21 00:01:44.400 --> 00:01:45.000 Yeah, terrible. 22 00:01:45.060 --> 00:01:47.459 So it's great that Terrence Dudley is back. 23 00:01:47.519 --> 00:01:48.719 With racism. 24 00:01:48.780 --> 00:01:51.959 Didn't he write Black Orchid? 25 00:01:52.019 --> 00:01:52.560 Yeah. 26 00:01:52.620 --> 00:01:56.519 So that was a lot of horrible people doing to somebody who's been incapacitated in some way. 27 00:01:56.579 --> 00:01:58.019 Yeah, so it was Abelism last time. 28 00:01:58.079 --> 00:02:02.159 At least this time, the racism is historically accurate. 29 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:05.040 There's not really that much of it. 30 00:02:05.099 --> 00:02:05.579 Yeah. 31 00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:12.060 Terence Dudley is back or T Duds, as I've taken to calling him, for his final script for the program. 32 00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:13.199 Hooray. 33 00:02:13.259 --> 00:02:14.099 Oh, God. 34 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:20.699 And you discovered this week, I think, Brendan, that his 1st script for the program could have been. 35 00:02:21.419 --> 00:02:22.199 Oh my god. 36 00:02:22.259 --> 00:02:35.879 I've subscribed to Doctor Who, the Complete History, which is like getting 2 Peter Haning books in your post once a month, roughly 128 to 176 page book covers between 2 and 4 Doctor Who stories. 37 00:02:35.939 --> 00:02:41.460 So the 1st book covers an unearthly child or the Daleks, or because this is from the Makers of Doctor Who magazine. 38 00:02:41.520 --> 00:02:45.180 It covers 100,000 BC and the Mutants, a.k.a. the Daleks. 39 00:02:45.240 --> 00:02:46.620 Thank you very much. monsters, aren't they? 40 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:51.539 They do at least include a full page discussion as to why these are the correct titles. 41 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:53.280 No. 42 00:02:53.460 --> 00:02:58.080 But they've got, of course, a very lengthy origin section of Doctor Who. 43 00:02:58.139 --> 00:03:04.500 So obviously very to them, but did go on record of saying, look, if we'd had another script, we wouldn't have started with cavemen. 44 00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:08.759 Not that it was bad or anything, but it just wasn't showing what we wanted to do with the show. 45 00:03:08.819 --> 00:03:18.419 At one point, they did actually try to ditch that script and just keep Anthony Coburn's unmade script Doctor Who and the robots, later made by Big Finisher's Masters of Luxor. 46 00:03:18.479 --> 00:03:23.159 And they approached Terence Dudley to write the 1st Doctor Who story. 47 00:03:23.219 --> 00:03:24.960 And he declined. 48 00:03:25.020 --> 00:03:27.479 And aren't we all grateful? 49 00:03:27.539 --> 00:03:28.680 Yeah that's why we're here. 50 00:03:29.819 --> 00:03:39.300 Because I think if anything is obvious after Terrence Dudley's 3 scripts for the program and also directing Meg Loss, he has no interest in science fiction. 51 00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:49.979 You can tell from that 2nd series of survivors, which I think he has a big hand in where they all just sort of settle down and grow cabbages and nothing really very interesting happens. 52 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:52.740 So, you know, he's not very good. 53 00:03:52.800 --> 00:03:55.259 None of his scripts are very good and this is no exception. 54 00:03:55.319 --> 00:03:56.460 It's really terrible. 55 00:03:56.520 --> 00:03:58.560 This is mine, apparently. 56 00:03:58.680 --> 00:04:05.939 But I just can't remember anything about it. without looking at my notes and even then, oh, well, look, no, that's not quite true. 57 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:07.020 I can remember some things. 58 00:04:07.080 --> 00:04:08.699 There's some, there's some of the lines. 59 00:04:08.699 --> 00:04:13.319 Like when, I really like, is it Gerald Flood as, as, as the king. 60 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:16.620 I love like our champion, our demons. 61 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:20.459 Like, those are things that actually stick with me, and I think he actually does a great performance. 62 00:04:21.120 --> 00:04:23.939 Possibly the highlight of this whole thing. 63 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:29.339 And then he's got his champion who talks about the blue engine. 64 00:04:29.399 --> 00:04:31.079 I love that line, the blue engine. 65 00:04:31.139 --> 00:04:34.980 A friend of Nathan and mine used to have a blue engine car. 66 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:35.759 That's right. 67 00:04:35.819 --> 00:04:37.500 His car was called the blue engine. 68 00:04:37.560 --> 00:04:39.420 Glenn Langford, former Doctor Who fan. 69 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:41.759 He got better. 70 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:48.060 Yeah, so those little things, I like those little, those little lines. 71 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:51.899 But, um, honestly, a frigging master. 72 00:04:51.959 --> 00:04:55.079 I was watching one of the documentaries in a future story. 73 00:04:55.139 --> 00:05:01.860 And it mentions that Anthony Ainley had a contract to appear in 2 Doctor 2 stories a year. 74 00:05:01.980 --> 00:05:04.079 Up until 1984. 75 00:05:04.259 --> 00:05:07.139 Now, I don't know who he had it over, right? 76 00:05:07.199 --> 00:05:11.939 But it was contractly contracted that he would be paid for 2 appearances, even if he did not appear. 77 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:14.339 So we had Keeper of Trachan and Megopolis. 78 00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:16.199 Castravalva and Time Flight. 79 00:05:16.259 --> 00:05:20.160 And so this year, it's the king's demons and the 5 doctors. 80 00:05:20.220 --> 00:05:23.759 And then his contract runs out with Planet of Fire. 81 00:05:23.819 --> 00:05:25.199 That, you know, they don't get the 2 in. 82 00:05:25.259 --> 00:05:26.759 But he still got, he still gets paid. 83 00:05:26.819 --> 00:05:27.720 Yeah absolutely. 84 00:05:27.839 --> 00:05:29.459 He must have had photos of someone. 85 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:34.079 And I, you know, I'm pretty sure in a few years time he gets paid for the unmade season 23 at all. 86 00:05:34.199 --> 00:05:35.699 He does because he had a new contract. 87 00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:39.420 He had a new contract where he was then for 3 years, at least one story a year. 88 00:05:39.480 --> 00:05:40.860 So he got paid for that. 89 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:42.899 Colin got paid for that season as well. 90 00:05:42.899 --> 00:05:43.560 So did Nicola. 91 00:05:43.620 --> 00:05:44.699 So to Nicolas. 92 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:46.019 So it's like, whatever. 93 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:48.540 But, you know, we have to use the master. 94 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:54.540 I'm a bit conflicted about him in this one because, um, so Gille is just unforgivable. 95 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:59.100 Terrible French accent, much worse than mine was, just like really, really bad. 96 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:01.439 Like yeah, comically bad. 97 00:06:01.500 --> 00:06:04.319 But once he reveals himself. 98 00:06:04.379 --> 00:06:06.540 I quite like Anthony Ainley in this story. 99 00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:11.759 Like when he when he takes his Tartas down to the dungeon and he's ingratiating himself with Lady Isabel. 100 00:06:11.819 --> 00:06:15.839 I think that's, he's actually quite charming in that scene. 101 00:06:15.899 --> 00:06:20.100 You know, there's a there's a touch of Delgado with Ingrid Pitt. 102 00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:21.300 Yeah, okay. 103 00:06:21.300 --> 00:06:26.579 I mean, we've got Ilsa Blair, who was cinaphar in Blake 7 duel. 104 00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:28.259 It was totally bugging me. 105 00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:29.939 I knew I knew her from somewhere. 106 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:34.560 And you know, she's one of those people who she was regularly doing TV guest appearances. 107 00:06:34.620 --> 00:06:35.639 She's still acting now. 108 00:06:35.699 --> 00:06:39.420 She has this quietness about her performance. 109 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:46.800 With the quietness, she has that wonderful Shakespearean quality, which a lot of stage actors have, where no matter how quiet they are. 110 00:06:46.860 --> 00:06:50.279 You are still listening to them, like Judy Dench or Derek Jack. 111 00:06:50.339 --> 00:06:55.439 I don't think she ever raises her voice in this story except maybe when Sir Jeffrey's killed. 112 00:06:55.500 --> 00:06:59.459 But all the time, whenever she's talking, you're not listening to anyone else. 113 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:02.579 You've got Frank Windsor as her husband, he's very good. 114 00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:03.839 He'll come back in ghost light. 115 00:07:03.899 --> 00:07:07.139 You've got Christopher Villiers, I think, is her son. 116 00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:10.860 And this was very early on in his career and he went on to be quite successful. 117 00:07:10.980 --> 00:07:14.579 He's cast really for one reason, isn't he? 118 00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:15.300 He's quite hot. 119 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:16.199 He's really pretty. 120 00:07:16.259 --> 00:07:27.180 But he seems to have found some peroxide that's fallen banquets through a crack in time because he does have lovely blonded hair, doesn't he? 121 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:28.319 Much like peace, I guess. 122 00:07:28.379 --> 00:07:32.279 He actually agreed not to cut his hair in the lead up to this. 123 00:07:32.339 --> 00:07:35.220 It was written into his contract, whereas all the other blokes had hairpieces. 124 00:07:35.699 --> 00:07:36.720 Except for Gerald Flood. 125 00:07:36.779 --> 00:07:38.399 It's quite interesting. 126 00:07:38.459 --> 00:07:46.500 The one thing I do like the fact is that the monaster does manipulate these people against the doctor, like in that episode, and I find it quite frustrating. 127 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:57.000 But I like that as a view of the fact that, you know, he's manipulating them and and, and do you remember the 1st time you watched it, whether you recognise that Sergille was the master? 128 00:07:58.379 --> 00:08:00.899 That's the question I was going to ask you. 129 00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:02.339 So you beat me to it. 130 00:08:03.300 --> 00:08:05.100 I think I did. 131 00:08:06.180 --> 00:08:10.740 Initially, because he doesn't speak, I kind of went, do I know you? 132 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:19.139 Then when he started to speak his, you know, a blue engine, I, then I worked out that I'm pretty sure I worked out before the reveal. 133 00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:23.579 Like, yeah, like, it was like fairly obvious, I think. think that's what I do remember. 134 00:08:23.639 --> 00:08:28.920 Yeah, it's not like the portrayable car lead where you can imagine on 1st broadcast you might have been fooled. 135 00:08:28.980 --> 00:08:30.839 I mean, the thing is coming me coming to those stories. 136 00:08:30.899 --> 00:08:31.319 I always knew. 137 00:08:31.379 --> 00:08:31.920 Yeah. 138 00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:32.759 Car lead. 139 00:08:32.820 --> 00:08:33.899 Like for God's sake. 140 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:34.860 Oh, you'd never know. 141 00:08:34.919 --> 00:08:36.000 Yeah, yeah, exactly. 142 00:08:36.059 --> 00:08:37.320 And, you know, the poor tree. 143 00:08:37.379 --> 00:08:39.539 He's really good in his whispery voice. 144 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:42.299 But yeah, it's mainly the voice that gives him away. 145 00:08:42.360 --> 00:08:43.679 I think the beard is stupid. 146 00:08:43.740 --> 00:08:46.740 But it does effectively disguise his face. 147 00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:54.240 I think there are a few shots where it is really, really visibly, anley, in a way that you could probably have picked up at home. 148 00:08:54.299 --> 00:08:59.879 But, you know, he's trying to disguise his voice again with his really atrocious accent. 149 00:08:59.940 --> 00:09:04.679 Like he is trying to do something, you know, to try and make it... 150 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:06.960 He's still no professor for Scalis, though, is he? 151 00:09:07.019 --> 00:09:25.620 I, yeah, but at the same time, even Roger Delgado had that scene in, um, in Claws of Axos, where he's fooling Benton into giving him the TARDIS, and just sort of turns around and rips the rubber mask off, and his, his only attempt to disguise his voice is like the difference between my voice now, and doing this, Sergeant. 152 00:09:25.620 --> 00:09:28.440 Oh, I'm in the army. 153 00:09:28.500 --> 00:09:32.279 See, I like, see, Duggada used to rip off the rubber mask or whatever. 154 00:09:32.340 --> 00:09:36.840 In Castravalva, he just stands up and flashes between the 2 characters. 155 00:09:36.899 --> 00:09:38.700 And I think the same thing happens here as well. 156 00:09:38.759 --> 00:09:40.500 Like it just flashes between the two. 157 00:09:40.620 --> 00:09:42.419 It's not like he rips off the beard and here he is. 158 00:09:42.539 --> 00:09:50.340 The rubber mask was never particularly convincing, but it was at least kind of a really visceral way of showing that he had been masked. 159 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:55.679 And he had figured out a way to disguise himself as someone half foot short of that incident. 160 00:09:55.740 --> 00:09:56.220 Yeah, yeah. 161 00:09:56.279 --> 00:09:57.960 Well, masks can do that, can they? 162 00:09:58.019 --> 00:09:58.379 absolutely. 163 00:09:58.440 --> 00:10:08.460 I think that there's a big problem structurally here too, which is that the doctor and Sejila having a fight for no reason. doctor. 164 00:10:08.519 --> 00:10:13.860 The doctor sort of checks his watch, goes, oh, we're 23 minutes in. 165 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:18.960 I'd better do something dangerous, you know, and he just gets up and fights to Jille for no reason at all. 166 00:10:19.019 --> 00:10:21.600 It is a pretty decent fight though. 167 00:10:21.659 --> 00:10:22.919 And it's and it's well shot. 168 00:10:22.980 --> 00:10:24.600 We got Tony Virgo directing. 169 00:10:24.659 --> 00:10:26.279 The only time he'll direct Doctor Who. 170 00:10:26.340 --> 00:10:28.620 You know, he went on to direct throughout the 80s. 171 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:30.899 Lots of high-end stuff for British television at the time. 172 00:10:30.960 --> 00:10:32.340 So EastEnders, the bill. 173 00:10:32.399 --> 00:10:36.059 He went on to become a producer, including peak practice later on. 174 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:39.600 I believe he did come out and work for the ABC for a while as well. 175 00:10:39.659 --> 00:10:41.759 We had it for a convention at some point, didn't we to it? 176 00:10:41.820 --> 00:10:42.600 Yeah, I'm sure he was. 177 00:10:42.659 --> 00:10:43.320 Yeah. 178 00:10:43.379 --> 00:10:43.919 Sorry. 179 00:10:44.039 --> 00:10:45.899 A distant memory. 180 00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:47.580 Sorry, sorry if you're listening, Tony. 181 00:10:47.639 --> 00:10:50.940 But this was his 2nd show that he'd worked on. 182 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:52.200 He'd done 3 episodes of Angels. 183 00:10:52.379 --> 00:10:59.759 And then was asked to do Doctor Who, and he really seems to be going, right, this is my chance to prove myself because we get interesting camera angles. 184 00:10:59.820 --> 00:11:02.700 Great set design, really good lighting as well. 185 00:11:02.759 --> 00:11:13.200 And, you know, for the mediaeval banquet set, they ordered all this practical food so people could actually be eating and there's the Irish hounds there who... 186 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:14.460 Oh, there's doggies on set. 187 00:11:14.519 --> 00:11:18.360 They're sort of historically accurate that Heddy got them in for both studio sessions. 188 00:11:18.419 --> 00:11:21.360 You know, he's he's actually really trying hard. 189 00:11:21.419 --> 00:11:30.899 I found myself constantly distracted by that suckling pig, like it was all I could look at, so I don't know what anyone was saying when that was on screen. 190 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:42.779 And I also think where that sword fight differs from the fantastic sword fight in the sea devils is that it's set during a historical period before the invention of the sandwich. 191 00:11:42.840 --> 00:11:46.139 I think that really means they're slightly inferior. 192 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:47.340 Yes, indeed. 193 00:11:47.340 --> 00:11:52.919 Well, I like the line, like, you know, best sawman in France, fortunately, we are in England. 194 00:11:53.039 --> 00:11:55.919 I thought that was nice, but... 195 00:11:55.980 --> 00:11:56.820 You know, you're quite right. 196 00:11:56.940 --> 00:11:58.980 I mean, why are we having this sword fight? 197 00:11:59.039 --> 00:12:04.080 And then it goes, and then just for no reason, the master just stops and reveals himself, oh my, it's the master. 198 00:12:04.139 --> 00:12:06.240 Like, why even reveal yourself? 199 00:12:06.299 --> 00:12:08.580 And then Tegan gets to throw a knife at the master? 200 00:12:08.700 --> 00:12:10.440 In a most pathetic way, ever. 201 00:12:10.500 --> 00:12:12.419 Even if he plucks it out of the air. 202 00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:13.500 He just grabs it. 203 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:14.399 He catches it. 204 00:12:14.460 --> 00:12:17.639 I just wanted her to get it and go, ah, you know, like real venom. 205 00:12:17.700 --> 00:12:19.320 But, oh, yeah. 206 00:12:19.379 --> 00:12:20.700 It's stupid but it's cool. 207 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:21.899 The knife moment. 208 00:12:22.019 --> 00:12:22.679 I think that is cool. 209 00:12:22.740 --> 00:12:25.679 I really love the Dr. and Tegan relationship in the 1st episode. 210 00:12:25.740 --> 00:12:28.320 She's so cold out by location. 211 00:12:28.379 --> 00:12:30.899 They had just, they just had this lovely relationship. 212 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:34.259 There's a real warmth to it and it's progressed. 213 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:35.460 It's just so evident. 214 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:36.840 Yeah, it's great. 215 00:12:36.899 --> 00:12:41.580 You do get the impression and big finish up now, I think, slaughtered some stories in here. 216 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:45.059 You do get the impression that some time has passed since Enlightenment. 217 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:48.899 Tegan is still slightly suspicious of Turbo. 218 00:12:49.019 --> 00:12:50.700 Like when he's off he's off by himself. 219 00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:52.919 She's kind of constantly saying, where's Turlo? 220 00:12:52.980 --> 00:12:53.580 What's he up to? 221 00:12:54.120 --> 00:12:58.320 But I, I, you know, she has accepted what has happened previously. 222 00:12:58.379 --> 00:13:00.539 Although we did end the last story, didn't we? 223 00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:10.559 I think Todd pointed this out between recordings that Turlo's like, let's go back to my home planet and at the beginning of the story and at the end of the story, we were meant to be going to my home planet. 224 00:13:12.179 --> 00:13:13.860 So maybe no stories can fit in here. 225 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:14.519 Yeah. 226 00:13:14.580 --> 00:13:15.059 Yeah. 227 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:16.679 Bad luck. 228 00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:21.840 No picking up Nissa on this podcast watch. 229 00:13:21.960 --> 00:13:26.940 I've been complaining all season about lack of character deaths, right? 230 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:30.840 But we do get one here in episode... 231 00:13:30.899 --> 00:13:33.600 And it's actually very I'm very affected by it, you know? 232 00:13:33.659 --> 00:13:39.299 The master doesn't pull the trigger, but he gets somebody else to shoot him in the back with the arrow. 233 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:49.620 He's kind of good looking and he's a good guy and he's got a relationship with, you know, our 2 main characters and they react to his death that he's actually a death that kind of lands. 234 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:54.419 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. and it's not resolved It's not like the killer is brought to justice. 235 00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:59.639 We never see the crossbower, whoever it was, did the master hypnotise him. 236 00:13:59.700 --> 00:14:02.039 We don't know, but he never seems to be caught. 237 00:14:02.100 --> 00:14:05.519 Turlo just cops the blame for it, and they run off at the end. 238 00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:14.639 A lot of people in terms of the 5th doctor and Tegan have pointed to that scene where Tegan says, look at that huge bed at the dog's side, another way of keeping warm. 239 00:14:14.700 --> 00:14:16.019 Oh really? 240 00:14:16.379 --> 00:14:19.139 How did that slip under the radar? 241 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:21.659 It's not that huge either, really, is it? 242 00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:22.440 No, no. 243 00:14:22.500 --> 00:14:25.139 Yeah, well, it's huge, you know, it's huge for the BBC. 244 00:14:25.259 --> 00:14:28.320 But there was an interesting aside in the production subtitles. 245 00:14:28.379 --> 00:14:30.960 The production subtitles don't raise the Dubel entende. 246 00:14:31.019 --> 00:14:38.639 They just mentioned chairs were only for luxury and nobility at this time. 247 00:14:38.820 --> 00:14:47.580 So it would be quite understandable for beds to be so big because it would be the only piece of furniture to sit on in most rooms in most bedrooms. 248 00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:49.919 But you will notice that this room has 2 chairs. 249 00:14:50.159 --> 00:14:53.460 And the doctor and Tegan don't sit in either. 250 00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:54.539 They don't sit at all. 251 00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:56.820 They just wander around going, I'm cold, I'm cold too. 252 00:14:56.879 --> 00:14:57.720 Here's a blanket. 253 00:14:57.779 --> 00:14:58.259 Oh, thank you. 254 00:14:58.320 --> 00:14:58.919 I'm cold. 255 00:14:59.039 --> 00:15:00.840 But somebody does sit in it. 256 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:03.299 And that's the king, who's not really the king. 257 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:08.159 But the newest member of the TARDIS crew. 258 00:15:08.220 --> 00:15:09.960 Chameleon. 259 00:15:10.139 --> 00:15:15.360 This would have been just an utterly terrible idea as it actually proved to be. 260 00:15:15.419 --> 00:15:18.659 I think the chameleon prop looks terrible. 261 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:29.519 And I think it's actually not very well directed, particularly in that scene where he's being welcomed on board the TARDIS, where he's shot in such a way that you can't actually see his eyes. 262 00:15:29.580 --> 00:15:34.139 He's delivering dialogue, but his eyes aren't visible because he's looking away. 263 00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:37.259 I think there's a huge problem with the prop. 264 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:38.460 I think it looks off putting. 265 00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:40.320 I think the mouth movements are horrific. 266 00:15:40.379 --> 00:15:44.279 It shares with canine a really loud motor. 267 00:15:44.340 --> 00:15:46.740 You can actually hear it moving. 268 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:50.279 The neck, the crinkly neck is awful. 269 00:15:50.340 --> 00:15:58.860 It's, it's, it's an ugly prop, and it would have been a terrible idea to actually have it again. 270 00:15:58.919 --> 00:16:11.820 And just as they've got the TARDAS crew to be 2 people who are reasonably interesting and identifiable, you're going to put a space robot from the planet Zeraphas in the show. 271 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:12.899 Like, why do that? 272 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:14.100 What's wrong with you? 273 00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:16.440 What was John Nathan Turner thinking? 274 00:16:16.500 --> 00:16:19.019 Like they went and saw this thing in action. 275 00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:23.639 And it really even wasn't working properly quite then, but lots of promises. 276 00:16:23.700 --> 00:16:27.600 And it's just appalling. 277 00:16:27.659 --> 00:16:31.200 Like, we don't see it now after this until it's final story. 278 00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:33.539 And it's like, if you're going to introduce it. 279 00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:37.080 You'd think you'd be using it in every story in some aspect. 280 00:16:37.139 --> 00:16:39.480 That's my opinion. if you're going to be part of the crew. 281 00:16:39.539 --> 00:16:40.799 Like in the 5 doctors. 282 00:16:40.860 --> 00:16:41.820 Why can't you? 283 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:44.100 Why can't you set it up to be a fake doctor, for example? 284 00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:54.360 Or in the awakening that's coming up, the malice is taking over things, why can't it take over chameleon and have it turn into some sort of person that walks out of the times? 285 00:16:54.419 --> 00:16:55.740 You know, there's just nothing. 286 00:16:55.799 --> 00:16:59.220 You do know there's a big production reason why this happens. 287 00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:09.180 So they had wanted to have a scene with Chameleon in the Awakening, voiced by Mark Strickson, but it was cut for time. 288 00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:10.019 Yeah, it was filmed. 289 00:17:10.079 --> 00:17:10.859 It is on the DVD. 290 00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:11.279 Right. 291 00:17:11.339 --> 00:17:15.420 But they had problems getting the prop to work. 292 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:17.579 Am I wrong about this? 293 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:22.980 Because the guy who was originally meant to program it died tragically in a car accident. 294 00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:27.059 And so they couldn't get it to work properly or quickly. 295 00:17:27.059 --> 00:17:28.140 I know that he died. 296 00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:28.799 All right? 297 00:17:28.859 --> 00:17:30.960 And the hardware guy was still around. 298 00:17:31.019 --> 00:17:42.119 And if you watch the documentary, I think it's on Planet of the Fire, he actually is like, oh, you know, we did such a great job with it and you know, he's so proud of what they managed to do. 299 00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:47.759 And everybody else's interview says that it's the biggest load of crap ever. 300 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:51.960 But even so, even in like Planet of Fire. 301 00:17:52.019 --> 00:17:53.099 I know I'm jumping ahead. 302 00:17:53.160 --> 00:18:00.359 But even if you had him just standing there and then, you know, somebody to transition into a real person, do you know what I mean? 303 00:18:00.420 --> 00:18:04.079 Well, and then using it that way and not really seeing the robot. 304 00:18:04.140 --> 00:18:10.740 But I, I mean, I hate, I would hate there to be a shape shifting character on, in the TARDIS. 305 00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:15.059 I just hate, it's so stupid and so science fiction-y an idea. 306 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:17.519 Yeah, it's been like early Deep Space 9. 307 00:18:17.579 --> 00:18:22.920 It took them a while to figure out what to do with Odo, who ended up being a magnificent character. 308 00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:30.000 But very early on, he's just there occasionally to shimmer into a pile of goo or to turn into something to be smuggled on board a ship, you know. 309 00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:33.059 For the 1st season, Odo's a McGuffin. 310 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:40.440 But then they figure out his backstory and his relationship with Kira and he's probably my favourite character on that series. 311 00:18:40.500 --> 00:18:41.819 Great performance too. 312 00:18:41.880 --> 00:18:43.319 Yeah, Renee Aub- Jean-ois. 313 00:18:43.380 --> 00:19:03.119 In terms of Chameleon, I've tried to research what happened exactly to the programmer, because at 1st I heard he died in a car accident just before the King's Demons, but the guy who built the model who's still with us and still owns Chameleon, says he died shortly after Planet of Fire in a sailing accident. 314 00:19:03.180 --> 00:19:04.559 So I don't I don't know. 315 00:19:04.619 --> 00:19:08.700 You know, he was his mate, so I probably side with him. 316 00:19:08.759 --> 00:19:13.920 But the thing that just baffles me about chameleon is. 317 00:19:14.819 --> 00:19:17.279 Why not just have an actor? 318 00:19:17.339 --> 00:19:20.039 He's a shape shifting robot. 319 00:19:20.099 --> 00:19:27.420 You know, the prop can appear for 5 minutes at the beginning of episode one for which you need 4 weeks programming time. 320 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:30.420 And then he then he can turn into Christopher Brown. 321 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:36.839 Get him to look into Tegan's mind and pull out the image of Mariner because, oh, wouldn't Christopher Brown, a Mariner, have made a good companion? 322 00:19:36.900 --> 00:19:37.740 Yeah. 323 00:19:37.740 --> 00:19:47.279 And Chameleon can have the whole thing about discovering humanity and discovering emotion because you do get glimpses of Chameleon's character here and he's an he's arrogant. 324 00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:50.640 You know, he and who knows where to show end. 325 00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:53.339 I I'm in the charges now. 326 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:54.059 A ha ha. 327 00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:56.700 Yeah, there's a bit of character there in the last 5 minutes. 328 00:19:56.759 --> 00:19:58.319 Is that the ending line? 329 00:19:58.380 --> 00:19:59.460 Who knows where it shall end? 330 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:03.480 No, the ending the ending line is the doctor saying, we're going there already. 331 00:20:03.539 --> 00:20:05.460 Oh, the eye of Orion. 332 00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:13.559 That's a very strange bit too, where he's mean to Tegan, sort of suddenly and threatens to put her off the ship like at the beginning of the reign of terror. 333 00:20:13.619 --> 00:20:14.819 Bitch scene. 334 00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:25.019 I think there, I think there is a bit of cleverness there because of course, you know, we've noted that, and that Nissa was the Peacekeeper. and now Nissa has been gone for 2 stories. 335 00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:28.559 And, you know, back in season 19, Tegan was pushing the doctor out. 336 00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:31.079 It's like, you got to get me home and the broken clock keeps better. 337 00:20:31.079 --> 00:20:32.099 Time and diet. 338 00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:36.180 So I think at this point the doctor's just going, right, okay, you want to have a temper tantrum? 339 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:37.500 fine, I'm putting you off. 340 00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:41.700 And immediately Tegan's like, well, I don't want to leave, and the doctor says, oh, okay, then. 341 00:20:41.759 --> 00:20:51.900 I, I, I think that's actually a subtle reversal of, Yeah, we did last season, kind of say, why did Tegan and the doctor keep hanging out together. 342 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:56.819 But here we kind of get the answers to that because they've got each other's measure now. 343 00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:00.299 They know they know how to push each other's buttons and they also know how to react. 344 00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:15.539 And it's nowhere near as as bad as the next female companion will be treated in the TARDIS because you never seriously believe that the doctor's doing a billy and saying, right, next stop off the ship, Chesterman. 345 00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:21.059 You know, you know that the doctor is winding Tegan up, just the way that Tegan winds the doctor up. 346 00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:27.119 It's quite a cute moment, but Richard did point out during the week that Pete at the end going, oh, no, that's where we're going anyway. 347 00:21:27.180 --> 00:21:28.319 It's a Scooby-Doo ending. 348 00:21:28.380 --> 00:21:37.859 You know, thankfully we cut before Mark Strixen goes, oh, You know, you should have cut to a chameleon laughing. 349 00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:42.779 I was annoyed at the time that Chameleon spends like a year in a cupboard. 350 00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:46.019 Like it just annoyed me that he was never mentioned or brought up again. 351 00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:48.180 What happens to it in frontios? 352 00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:49.019 Is he the hat stand? 353 00:21:49.079 --> 00:21:50.519 Does he transmogrophone? 354 00:21:50.579 --> 00:21:53.819 In reality, it's, thank goodness, really. 355 00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:54.779 Yeah, well, that's right. 356 00:21:54.839 --> 00:22:00.359 I can't think of a bad Doctor Who story that couldn't be made much, much worse by the edition of Chameleon. 357 00:22:00.420 --> 00:22:11.160 Do you know that when I originally saw this as a kid, because we got the stories like one episode a night, 5 nights a week, I actually wanted chameleon. 358 00:22:11.220 --> 00:22:16.740 You know, when it turns into Tegan, I thought they might turn it into Missa, grows really warning. 359 00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:24.359 And I really wanted it to be missa, like to have a little cameo like what um atrocan. he turns her into Tegan. 360 00:22:24.420 --> 00:22:27.660 And does he, they walk into the Tartars and, yeah, yeah. 361 00:22:27.660 --> 00:22:29.099 And doesn't he say something to Turlo? 362 00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:31.740 Like, yes, I'm afraid so or something. 363 00:22:31.859 --> 00:22:36.180 It's really funny too, because doesn't Tegan say, can anyone else see this or something? 364 00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:37.859 Yeah, there's another bee in here. 365 00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:39.240 And Turlo says something that? 366 00:22:39.299 --> 00:22:40.019 Yes, unfortunately. 367 00:22:41.460 --> 00:22:47.579 I will say as a kid, because this is another one I came to during the 1990s repeat season. 368 00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:48.539 So around 11 or 12. 369 00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:51.059 As a kid, chameleons are great. 370 00:22:51.119 --> 00:23:01.680 I loved Chameleon as a kid and there was a BBC book, The Ultimate Treasure by Christopher Buellus, which uses Chameleon in a very interesting way. 371 00:23:01.740 --> 00:23:09.119 And I won't spoil anything else because he comes up in there, but you kind of read that and go, actually, the TV show could have done this. 372 00:23:09.420 --> 00:23:14.759 In the end, he just represents not seeing the forest for the trees. 373 00:23:14.819 --> 00:23:19.559 They kind of go, hey, we can have this robot and hey, you can be a shapeshifter and they get hung up on the robot bit. 374 00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:23.039 It's like, I, you know, I agree with you, Nathan. 375 00:23:23.099 --> 00:23:25.500 Shapeshifting characters can be an easy out. 376 00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:28.619 Like, sometimes they used well, like Space 1999 season two. 377 00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:35.220 Not that it's a great TV show anyway, but the conceit that Maya can turn into an animal, opens the plot up. 378 00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:41.039 Or they can see that she can turn into a guy in a kind of shaggy nylon suit at will. 379 00:23:41.099 --> 00:23:42.180 Yeah, yeah. 380 00:23:42.240 --> 00:23:44.819 See, I think that's always awful. 381 00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:52.440 You know, the scene where Maya realises that turning into an eagle or something will solve our problems is just sort of cringeworthy and embarrassing. 382 00:23:52.500 --> 00:24:03.059 And to have that all the time in Doctor Who, the Doctor Who is now a program about, you know, the Doctor and some friends and a crazy shape shifting robot. 383 00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:04.140 That's awful. 384 00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:07.619 And particularly when the robot is so, so off-putting. 385 00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:23.160 I mean, canine, you know, is a box, you know, joined to another box with a tube and he's so loveable and relatable, you know, and he wags his tail and all of that and he's got a couple of great actors doing the performance. 386 00:24:23.220 --> 00:24:25.259 You know, this is awful. 387 00:24:25.380 --> 00:24:29.579 Yeah, I think the only way chameleons, shape shifting abilities could have worked. 388 00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:35.880 And as I mentioned early, we get a glimpse of his character and he's like glib and, you know, what have you. 389 00:24:35.940 --> 00:24:37.140 I think it really would work. 390 00:24:37.200 --> 00:24:41.579 He'd chosen a human form and then when, you know, people say to him, but why don't you change what? 391 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:42.359 Well why should I? 392 00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:46.140 I'm perfectly happy as I am. 393 00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:47.220 Why should I change for you? 394 00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:49.619 Basically, he should have been Quentin Crisp in space. 395 00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:55.019 I'm kind of thinking that maybe he is in all of the subsequent stories. 396 00:24:56.700 --> 00:24:59.339 Turlo's having a nap during this year. 397 00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:00.839 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 398 00:25:00.900 --> 00:25:01.319 Why not? 399 00:25:01.380 --> 00:25:04.140 Or, like, he's Chancellor Flavia this week. 400 00:25:04.619 --> 00:25:08.880 He's skip us, you know, next week and stuff like that. 401 00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:10.079 Why couldn't that be happening? 402 00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:14.400 Yeah, during the Awakening Turbo, I was like, I'm not visiting Tegan's bloody grandad. 403 00:25:14.460 --> 00:25:15.599 Chameleon, you go do it. 404 00:25:15.660 --> 00:25:19.319 Oh, maybe the doctor does that sometimes. 405 00:25:19.380 --> 00:25:20.700 It could be the Merka. 406 00:25:21.059 --> 00:25:23.940 He was the Merka all the time. 407 00:25:24.359 --> 00:25:28.259 Look, it's just... 408 00:25:28.319 --> 00:25:29.220 Oh, God. okay. 409 00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:32.579 So next season, the drinking game, dear listeners, is chameleon watch. 410 00:25:33.000 --> 00:25:36.059 Yeah, who is chameleon in this story. 411 00:25:36.119 --> 00:25:37.319 I think we make it a regular theme. 412 00:25:39.240 --> 00:25:50.940 Look, it's just so ill conceived and, you know, he could have been a, yeah, come aboard the TARDIS will take you home and take him home and never mention me again. 413 00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:57.119 Or even if he then turns up and planning a fire, just have the doctor say, oh, yeah, we put a bit of cupboard. 414 00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:02.519 We didn't have a USBC port, so he ran out of battery. 415 00:26:02.579 --> 00:26:04.619 I did that with 2 teachers ages ago. 416 00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:06.779 Just kept forgetting to take him home. 417 00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:09.779 Had it written down and felt tip and everything, fast return. 418 00:26:09.839 --> 00:26:14.160 And they talk, anyhow, back to this scintillating story. 419 00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:16.019 Story in inverted comments. 420 00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:25.500 The doctor leaves a nasty surprise for the master at the end of this story, doesn't he, with the tissue compression eliminator set to something so that it will cause problems with the master's TARDIS. 421 00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:25.920 Is that right? 422 00:26:25.980 --> 00:26:26.579 Yeah. 423 00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:28.559 Is it what shrinks him for Planet of Fire? 424 00:26:28.619 --> 00:26:29.940 Is that why he ends up in a little box? 425 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:32.220 No, because we've got the 5 doctors. 426 00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:33.359 Oh, yeah, that's true. 427 00:26:33.420 --> 00:26:36.180 Maybe he goes back in time or something. 428 00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:39.839 So nothing happens to the master then because he's in the 5 doctors. 429 00:26:39.900 --> 00:26:40.440 He's just fine. 430 00:26:40.500 --> 00:26:41.759 Yeah, well that's the thing. 431 00:26:41.819 --> 00:26:44.759 The last time we see the master, he's just shouting at the charters fading away. 432 00:26:44.819 --> 00:26:46.500 Mediaeval misfits. 433 00:26:46.619 --> 00:26:49.079 Great bit of dialogue, isn't it? 434 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:49.680 Yeah. 435 00:26:49.740 --> 00:26:51.960 But I have read a fan theory. 436 00:26:52.019 --> 00:26:54.299 I'll probably bring this up again when we get to Planet of Fire. 437 00:26:54.359 --> 00:27:00.000 The, for the master, the 5 doctors takes place after Planet of Fire and the time lords pick him out of the flames. 438 00:27:00.059 --> 00:27:01.200 Oh, okay. 439 00:27:01.259 --> 00:27:03.359 I'm going with that I'm canonating that. 440 00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:04.200 Right. 441 00:27:04.380 --> 00:27:07.859 Shall we say something about the actual script for this story? 442 00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:13.980 Because we've given Terence Dudley a hard time for canine and Company and Black Orchid, but... 443 00:27:13.980 --> 00:27:18.960 The script works. 444 00:27:19.019 --> 00:27:20.880 It's a really boring premise though. 445 00:27:20.940 --> 00:27:29.099 I think it's been observed over and over again that Magna Carta doesn't actually have the big historic impact that this story claims it has. 446 00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:37.680 There's something kind of colonialist about, you know, disrupting England is going to be a huge sort of disaster for the human race. 447 00:27:37.740 --> 00:27:38.460 Yeah. 448 00:27:38.460 --> 00:27:43.859 And even the story lamp shades it by saying it's small time villainy even for his standards. 449 00:27:43.920 --> 00:27:44.819 It's boring. 450 00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:47.099 And why does the doctor turn up there? 451 00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:48.299 Is it just a coincidence? 452 00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:51.599 Why is the master in disguise before the doctor turns up? 453 00:27:51.660 --> 00:27:54.660 Well, he just dresses up to relax, though. doesn't he? 454 00:27:54.720 --> 00:27:57.359 I mean, that's what the whole Khalid outfit was all about, too. 455 00:27:57.420 --> 00:27:58.559 Oh dear. 456 00:27:58.619 --> 00:28:05.579 I kind of want to see him missing in like a common Miranda fruit hat and the doctor turns up and says, oh, I don't know if your cunning disguise is, no doubt. didn't know you were coming. 457 00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:08.519 This is just thirsty. something I threw on. 458 00:28:08.579 --> 00:28:13.980 This other things that, like, I don't find the horse jousting thing. 459 00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:15.480 I never find that exciting myself. 460 00:28:15.539 --> 00:28:17.339 I kind of go, whatever. 461 00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:19.319 And I really hate court gesters. 462 00:28:19.380 --> 00:28:21.180 I just want to just punch him in the face. 463 00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:23.759 No, not even Terry Walsh. 464 00:28:23.819 --> 00:28:30.960 I will say, like, the location shooting, they only got about half the shots they wanted, that all the shots they missed. 465 00:28:31.019 --> 00:28:32.819 They did then plan to do in the studio. 466 00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:33.960 It wasn't a matter of running out of time. 467 00:28:34.019 --> 00:28:35.400 It was just the weather was so horrible. 468 00:28:35.460 --> 00:28:36.720 Yeah, you can tell. 469 00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:49.680 So the jousting was meant to run the same amount of, but have twice the amount of shots it was meant to be fast paced and action-y and you were meant to see Chris Villiers stunt double fall off his horse and do a tumble and what have you. 470 00:28:49.740 --> 00:28:52.859 And just because of the weather, they couldn't do the stunts. 471 00:28:52.980 --> 00:28:54.240 I'm okay with that. 472 00:28:54.299 --> 00:28:58.319 Like, I'm okay that it's as short as it is because it does nothing for me and I wouldn't do anything more. 473 00:28:58.380 --> 00:29:02.460 I think my biggest disappointment with this is the fact that there's just not enough doors. 474 00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:04.799 Yeah, where were the doors? 475 00:29:04.859 --> 00:29:06.240 There's the door. 476 00:29:06.299 --> 00:29:07.680 Well, I don't know. 477 00:29:07.740 --> 00:29:10.500 There is a door going into the king's chamber and I don't know. 478 00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:12.480 Maybe Dudley's grown as a writer. 479 00:29:12.539 --> 00:29:21.240 He feels that his mind, the people going through doors trope, really enough, and he'd like to move on and try more exciting things like closing people in Iron Maiden. 480 00:29:21.299 --> 00:29:22.200 Yes, yes. 481 00:29:22.259 --> 00:29:23.819 Well, I suppose that's a door. 482 00:29:23.880 --> 00:29:36.059 Although the Iron Maiden, as we understand it, And as we see it in the story is, I believe, a Victorian invention or 17, the 17th or 18th century or sorry, 18th or 19th. 483 00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:38.940 Is it something the Victorians said that people did in the Middle Ages? 484 00:29:38.940 --> 00:29:40.319 Yeah, but they actually happened. 485 00:29:40.380 --> 00:29:52.380 I mean, I think where the confusion comes from were they were kind of... cylinders where people were being incarcerated, but they weren't spiked or anything like that. 486 00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:56.579 Um, I love the mentions of boiling in oil. 487 00:29:56.640 --> 00:30:02.279 I think that's always delightful for a sort of family, you know, entertainment program. 488 00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:08.759 And again, the production subtitles on the DVD are a wealth because they detail the 3 methods of boiling in oil that people would use. 489 00:30:08.819 --> 00:30:09.599 Delightful. 490 00:30:09.660 --> 00:30:13.980 I love the way that when it's announced that the doctor and Turlo are to be boiled in oil. 491 00:30:13.980 --> 00:30:16.019 Turlo looks at the doctor is really cross. 492 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:19.440 See? 493 00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:21.059 See what you did. 494 00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:24.299 This is why I wanted to go home and we're here. 495 00:30:24.359 --> 00:30:27.359 So this wasn't supposed to be the final story of the season. 496 00:30:27.420 --> 00:30:30.059 We're supposed to cliffhanger into a Dalek story. 497 00:30:30.119 --> 00:30:30.480 Is that right? 498 00:30:30.539 --> 00:30:31.559 That's right. right. 499 00:30:31.619 --> 00:30:36.359 And the cliffhanger will survive and we'll see that at the end of Frontios, where they get caught in the Dalek's time tunnel. 500 00:30:36.420 --> 00:30:39.420 And so that story was going to be called the return. 501 00:30:39.480 --> 00:30:43.619 It is made next year with very minor changes as Resurrection of the Daleks. 502 00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:49.200 So it was going to be called the return, presumably, so they could do an earth shock again. 503 00:30:49.259 --> 00:30:50.039 Yeah. 504 00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:52.200 And they wouldn't call it... 505 00:30:52.259 --> 00:30:53.759 And then they decided not to do that. 506 00:30:53.819 --> 00:30:55.619 But it was just going to be called the return. 507 00:30:55.680 --> 00:31:00.180 But the other part of the return was going to be the Daleks getting Davros back. 508 00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:04.500 And in the original production, it was to be directed by Peter Grimwade. 509 00:31:04.500 --> 00:31:08.579 And Michael Wisher was to be back as Davros. 510 00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:09.359 Wow. 511 00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:12.839 But he then couldn't make the dates the following year, but he had agreed to come back. 512 00:31:12.900 --> 00:31:17.279 And this actually led to Peter Grimway not directing for the program again. 513 00:31:17.339 --> 00:31:23.700 Because it fell through because of all the strikes and having to reschedule enlightenment into these slots and that sort of thing. 514 00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:24.779 That's part of it. 515 00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:29.339 But what also happened was, of course, everyone was very disappointed to lose the story. 516 00:31:29.400 --> 00:31:38.519 So Peter Grimway decided he would take Eric Saywood and the cast out to lunch one day and he'd take JNT out to lunch the next day and he booked 2 lunches. 517 00:31:38.579 --> 00:31:41.099 But JNT heard about the 1st lunch first. 518 00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:43.259 And had a giant hiszy. 519 00:31:43.259 --> 00:31:45.599 And kind of went, why am I not invited? 520 00:31:45.660 --> 00:31:50.400 First of all, when Peter Grimway turned up to take Eric Saywood out to lunch, that was a surprise. 521 00:31:50.460 --> 00:31:56.099 And it was going to be a surprise for John and John came into Eric's office and, oh, where's Eric? 522 00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:57.660 Oh, he's going out to lunch with Peter Grimwaite. 523 00:31:57.720 --> 00:31:57.960 What? 524 00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:01.619 But that's why he still writes for the show because he still had a good relationship with Eric Saywood. 525 00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:11.819 Well, this story really suffers because as I say, you know, the script, it's like, yes, it's boring and Magna Carta's not that, you know, it becomes important for other things. 526 00:32:11.880 --> 00:32:15.839 Magna Carta leads to other things, but in itself, it's not that important. 527 00:32:15.900 --> 00:32:20.880 And it doesn't help that the doctor at no point explains why we should care about Magna Carta. 528 00:32:20.940 --> 00:32:23.099 Like he says to Tegan at one point, don't you know your history? 529 00:32:23.160 --> 00:32:24.839 And she says, yes, I know my history and that's it. 530 00:32:25.079 --> 00:32:27.960 What it really feels like, though. 531 00:32:28.019 --> 00:32:30.240 This feels like part one and 2 of a 3 part story. 532 00:32:30.299 --> 00:32:40.440 It feels like the master should now go to London and do something with the real king and pose a bigger threat because, you know, even without the Android, the master's resourceful. 533 00:32:40.500 --> 00:32:43.619 He should still be able to do something, he should disguise himself as the king. 534 00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:45.420 Yeah he's good at that. 535 00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:46.500 But that's the thing. 536 00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:50.940 It feels like there's more of this story to be told. or there should be anyway. 537 00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:54.720 But yeah, compared to Terence Dudley's other contributions. 538 00:32:54.779 --> 00:32:57.059 This is bloody City of Death. 539 00:32:57.359 --> 00:33:03.059 I do think it also suffers from not leading into the Dalek story. 540 00:33:03.119 --> 00:33:06.119 So it's just this sort of rather limp ending to the season. 541 00:33:06.180 --> 00:33:09.539 Yeah, I always think of enlightenment as the end of the season. 542 00:33:09.599 --> 00:33:11.160 Then I suddenly go, oh yeah, this exists. 543 00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:13.980 So I haven't done a ratings update forever. 544 00:33:14.460 --> 00:33:17.339 So yeah, how did the back end of the season perform? 545 00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:22.559 So, um, 5.800000 viewers tuned into episode one, 107th on the chart. 546 00:33:22.619 --> 00:33:26.819 So I think this is the worst placed and rated episode of the season. 547 00:33:26.819 --> 00:33:30.660 And then, um, episode 2 was 7.2, 6.6. 548 00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:39.900 Um, you know, this season, as I mentioned before, the average is just over 7 million. 66th is a good chart position for this year. 549 00:33:39.960 --> 00:33:45.660 I think there's only 3 episodes inside the top 70 and most of the rest are between 70 and 100. 550 00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:51.960 So the show, as I mentioned, has slid down, you know, a good 30, 40 places down the charts. 551 00:33:52.019 --> 00:33:54.660 And we've lost a couple of 1000000 viewers all season. 552 00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:57.720 Most of the episodes are between about 6.5 and 7.5 million. 553 00:33:57.779 --> 00:33:59.160 We're on air less. 554 00:33:59.220 --> 00:34:02.339 Like last year they're only on air for 13 weeks this year, 11 weeks. 555 00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:03.059 Yeah. 556 00:34:03.059 --> 00:34:05.279 You know, losing 2000000 viewers. there has to be something. 557 00:34:05.339 --> 00:34:17.519 I think there's someone once said, I can't remember whether it was friend of the podcast, Peter Griffiths or not, that Doctor Who used to be on kind of all the time, and then it turns into something that's on for a couple of months a year. 558 00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:24.360 And when it's on all the time, or, you know, even half the year, it's something that people are going to watch. 559 00:34:24.420 --> 00:34:29.820 Yeah, I know that the Saturday night thing wasn't working out for it necessarily. 560 00:34:29.880 --> 00:34:34.139 But now that it's just one of the many things that's on during the week. 561 00:34:34.199 --> 00:34:35.340 Is that the reason? 562 00:34:35.400 --> 00:34:42.480 Well, it could well be because it's, you know, it's shunted around the Monday to Friday slot over the 3 Peter Davidson years. 563 00:34:42.539 --> 00:34:43.559 It's not consistent. 564 00:34:43.619 --> 00:34:58.920 John Nathan Turner did actually try to get it moved back to Saturday nights for this season and Saturday night turn and once a week because his idea was started a bit later in the year and have it run through till November to have 5 doctors screen right at the end of the season. 565 00:34:58.980 --> 00:35:04.559 Now, of course, you know, obviously with the return being scuppered, that wouldn't have worked anyway. 566 00:35:04.619 --> 00:35:16.199 But it seems a bit odd to me that his 1st season on Saturday nights performed so poorly, his 2nd season, weeknights, performed much better, literally double the ratings in some cases. 567 00:35:16.260 --> 00:35:30.300 It seems an odd choice for him to make, but at the same time, the BBC had been getting letters saying, look, Doctor Who has moved from 530 or 6 o'clock on a Saturday night to 730 Monday and Tuesday. 568 00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:36.360 My children are usually in bed by them, but they want to stay up and watch Doctor Who, and then they're excited about it and they don't get to bed for another hour. 569 00:35:36.420 --> 00:35:39.840 So I think actually maybe he was being sensitive to that viewer thing. 570 00:35:39.900 --> 00:35:51.059 I know it sounds funny, but if you look at interviews, Peter Davidson gives on like BBC Breakfast or News at one and that kind of thing, quite often, they will talk to him about the scheduling. 571 00:35:51.119 --> 00:36:03.059 And there's an interview, I think it's on nationwide for the 5 doctors and you've got, uh, You've got Peter, uh, Pat and John and Pat says something lines up. 572 00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:10.619 Oh, you know, we were on all year, not like this guy, and the host actually says, well, yes, it's tears before bedtime for me, because I won't let them stay up and watch it. 573 00:36:10.679 --> 00:36:13.739 So you got to wonder if that has an effect on the ratings. 574 00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:18.420 I think also at this time, the BBC was having money taken out of it. 575 00:36:18.539 --> 00:36:27.539 And also, uh, department started to be farmed out because remember by the end of the decade, Doctor Who's the only drama they're making in-house. 576 00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:34.920 So the drama departments at the BBC are becoming less and less and less, you've got more American imports over on ITV. 577 00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:37.019 So I think that affects it. 578 00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:39.059 I think yeah, the presence of it. 579 00:36:39.119 --> 00:36:44.699 If they have maybe kept it weeknights but done one a week, it feels bigger. 580 00:36:45.059 --> 00:36:47.400 It's in people's minds. 581 00:36:47.460 --> 00:36:48.599 Yes for longer. 582 00:36:48.960 --> 00:36:56.940 I mean, that might be a reflection too, on the amount of publicity that J and T does and all the little hooks he does to try and get publicity. 583 00:36:57.000 --> 00:37:01.500 Maybe last year was a spike caused by Pete's casting. 584 00:37:01.559 --> 00:37:07.860 Well, I, well, he certainly had a present, so he would have brought over fans from all creatures great and small. 585 00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:09.659 Yeah, and the other things. 586 00:37:09.719 --> 00:37:10.260 That's right. 587 00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:22.739 So, you know, they've come in to sample it, but, you know, even if you have, take that 2000000 off, if you compare like the 7000000 this year to the 5000000 for Toms last season, there's still a differential then. 588 00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:23.639 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 589 00:37:23.699 --> 00:37:26.880 So, it's not quite circling the drain yet. 590 00:37:26.940 --> 00:37:27.719 No. 591 00:37:27.780 --> 00:37:34.739 No, but, you know, the less it's on, the less it's in people's minds, the less there's that renewal of the younger audience. 592 00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:39.119 And yeah, it's it's never going to be on, even today. 593 00:37:39.179 --> 00:37:42.840 It's never going to be on now for more than 14 weeks of the year. 594 00:37:42.900 --> 00:37:47.519 So it's time for our Jenny Laird awards for most puzzling creative choice. 595 00:37:47.579 --> 00:37:51.119 And um, for me, it's a pretty easy one this time. 596 00:37:51.179 --> 00:38:00.000 My puzzling creative choice goes to John Nathan Turner for cutting the extra hour out of the terminus recording. 597 00:38:00.059 --> 00:38:02.280 You know, you've got the director offside. 598 00:38:02.340 --> 00:38:09.960 You've got the cast off side because something you always say told about when cast members are leaving and they bring their A game, you know. 599 00:38:10.019 --> 00:38:20.280 Sarah Sutton knows she's leaving and then all of a sudden she knows she has to come back in 6 weeks to record more scenes and she's, you know, I look at those scenes and I can't tell that it's 2 months later for her. 600 00:38:20.340 --> 00:38:21.119 She a very good actress. 601 00:38:21.179 --> 00:38:22.079 I'm not criticising her. 602 00:38:22.139 --> 00:38:31.739 But it's a matter of, there doesn't seem to have been any explanation forthcoming as to why the extra hour was yanked away so late. 603 00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:37.440 You know, if you had a set, if John Nathan Turner had a said to Mary Ridge. 2 days before, look, I'm really sorry. 604 00:38:37.500 --> 00:38:39.599 I cannot get that extra hour for you. 605 00:38:39.659 --> 00:38:43.260 Let's sit down with the shooting script and see what we can figure out. 606 00:38:43.320 --> 00:38:44.460 That would have been fine. 607 00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:47.579 And that is a part of the job that the directors have to deal with. 608 00:38:47.639 --> 00:38:49.980 But she'd already lost 2 days of shooting. 609 00:38:50.039 --> 00:38:51.960 Something I didn't mention last week. 610 00:38:52.019 --> 00:38:59.400 The Kari and all their costumes had to be remade because they were in blue, even though they were in no blue screen scenes. 611 00:38:59.460 --> 00:39:01.980 Mary Ridge didn't want to get into the position where all of a sudden. 612 00:39:02.039 --> 00:39:02.579 Oh, crap. 613 00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:04.800 I can't blue screen, blue screen. 614 00:39:04.860 --> 00:39:07.260 And so the costumes had to be entirely remade in white. 615 00:39:07.320 --> 00:39:10.139 You know, and Mary Ridge had said no blue. 616 00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:21.900 You know, it kind of sounds like the Julia Smith on the underwater menace situation in that no one was helping her on her 1st time around to make the show she wanted to make because we see in Blake 7 series 4. 617 00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:23.699 She's an incredibly talented director. 618 00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:25.559 She cares about making the show look good. 619 00:39:25.619 --> 00:39:28.500 And as she put it, part of the reason she never went on the show again. 620 00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:31.619 She was so outraged because she never finishes late. 621 00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:33.719 That was that was her thing. 622 00:39:33.780 --> 00:39:38.699 She does complex things and she gets them done on time, but she was just treated completely unfairly. 623 00:39:38.760 --> 00:39:41.280 And I'm not someone to bash John Nathan Turner. 624 00:39:41.340 --> 00:39:44.099 I'm not even really someone to bash Eric Saywood. criticise him. 625 00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:54.000 But I'm also able to acknowledge when he does things well, but John Nathan Turner, what the hell were you thinking cutting an hour out of a show that had already lost 2 days? 626 00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:57.300 I want to bash Eric, say it, actually. 627 00:39:57.360 --> 00:39:58.559 I thought you might. 628 00:39:58.619 --> 00:39:58.980 Yeah. 629 00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:12.780 We've already spoken a lot about the decision to make Chameleon a regular, so I'm going to disallow that for my journey to their nomination this time, although I think it's perhaps the worst creative decision of the entire. 630 00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:13.679 Oh no. 631 00:40:14.340 --> 00:40:17.039 That is my, that is my choice. 632 00:40:17.099 --> 00:40:18.239 I can't think of anything worse. 633 00:40:18.300 --> 00:40:34.619 I mean, this is a season that had Arc of Infinity with all of its puzzling creative choices, including bringing Omega back as some guy who's called Omega, but seems to bear no relationship with our Omega, who we loved all these years. 634 00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:43.139 That was puzzling and we talked about it quite a lot on our Arc of Infinity episode, but that could be my my 2nd ranking one. 635 00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:52.019 I don't think it can possibly eclipse, whoever's decision, J and T's decision, presumably, to bring Chameleon on board as a full-time companion. 636 00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:53.460 Terrible idea. 637 00:40:53.519 --> 00:40:54.539 Right. 638 00:40:54.599 --> 00:41:00.360 Well, I've got a number of nominations for my Jenny Laird and one of my nominations is the chameleon. 639 00:41:00.420 --> 00:41:02.099 Another nomination. 640 00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:22.679 I think it's for Eric Sayward, looking at these scripts and just having these corridors and corridors and no deaths and no deaths, and I just, it's just a creative puzzling choice to me that we didn't break it up with something that wasn't that, and that was doing my head in for 4 stories, and I think that's a really big one for me. 641 00:41:22.739 --> 00:41:24.539 What was my other one? 642 00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:24.840 Oh. 643 00:41:25.500 --> 00:41:27.360 The casting? 644 00:41:27.780 --> 00:41:30.239 Of the Lord President. 645 00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:40.019 In Arc of Infinity is one of the worst decisions in the history of the show, and really, that is like, I think I'm just going to have to put that in. 646 00:41:40.019 --> 00:41:43.739 As much as I don't like that other, I hate him so much, so much. 647 00:41:43.860 --> 00:41:45.420 I'd even care who his name was. 648 00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:48.179 That's sack, still, listen. 649 00:41:48.239 --> 00:41:50.519 I should have been sacked as far as I'm concerned. 650 00:41:50.579 --> 00:42:06.059 The creative puzzling choice is also from John Nathan Turner, or grasping onto this thing about the publicity for the season, about all these returning 20th anniversary, you know, concepts, like they're just, just nothingness there, really, like it's just a big fizzle. 651 00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:13.199 So there's a lot of things here that I can nominate for this season, but I think Leonard Sachs is it. 652 00:42:13.320 --> 00:42:16.320 You see, I feel the same way. 653 00:42:16.380 --> 00:42:24.059 I feel there's so many things in this season that go wrong, but at the same time, I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would, but I have to agree with you there, Todd. 654 00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:29.699 I think a big problem is when they got up and said, we're having something returning in every story. 655 00:42:29.820 --> 00:42:33.360 It's like if they hadn't have said that, the anticipation wouldn't have been there. 656 00:42:33.420 --> 00:42:37.019 And the whole season would have been more favourably received. 657 00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:43.619 Matt Smith runs into the same problem with Series 6 where Stephen Moffatt built up all this anticipation. 658 00:42:43.679 --> 00:42:45.719 Oh, everything changes this season. 659 00:42:45.780 --> 00:42:49.619 You will notice that season seven, season eight, season nine, the upcoming season 10. 660 00:42:49.860 --> 00:42:52.500 Stephen Moffatt says very little about what to expect now. 661 00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:58.679 Because this isn't necessarily the producers being disingenuous, but any kind of show. 662 00:42:58.739 --> 00:43:09.599 If you big it up to, the more you big it up, the more people will be disappointed because your words telling us how amazing it's going to be, they're going to be interpreted differently by different people. 663 00:43:09.659 --> 00:43:11.519 If you come to this season. 664 00:43:11.639 --> 00:43:16.679 As I originally did, not being aware that it's meant to be this big celebratory season. 665 00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:22.559 You get some thoughtful sci-fi stories, most of which don't really hang together. 666 00:43:22.619 --> 00:43:28.019 So this is only kind of like a back ported intention. 667 00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:31.260 Like they didn't set out to have something recurring. 668 00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:32.699 I think that's the other part. 669 00:43:32.760 --> 00:43:37.380 Well, because I mean in season 21, there are a number of returning elements as well. 670 00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:38.159 Yeah. 671 00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:44.579 And it does become something the show does until Carmel takes over and puts a stop to it with Paradise Towers. 672 00:43:44.639 --> 00:43:47.820 So it probably would have happened anyway. 673 00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:49.920 This was just a publicity thing. 674 00:43:49.980 --> 00:43:50.820 Yeah, yeah. 675 00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:56.639 But I think the problem isn't bringing stuff back. the problem is putting up a big billboard saying we're bringing stuff back. 676 00:43:56.699 --> 00:43:58.980 I think bringing stuff back is a problem. 677 00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:02.820 Okay, pics of the week. 678 00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:06.239 I actually have a Twitter account, I think everyone should follow. 679 00:44:06.300 --> 00:44:09.840 It's called at who labels. 680 00:44:09.900 --> 00:44:16.199 And it's a Twitter account posting pictures of the various labels and signs that appear in Doctor Who. 681 00:44:16.260 --> 00:44:22.860 I don't think they've done vacuum shield off yet, but they have specifically said in sort of their raison d'asre. 682 00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:25.019 They're avoiding all the big signs for now. 683 00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:32.760 So they're putting up little signs and seeing if people get them like Bessie's anti-theft device and the fast return switch. 684 00:44:32.820 --> 00:44:36.539 It's just this joyful Twitter account. 685 00:44:36.599 --> 00:44:38.880 So that is at who labels. 686 00:44:38.940 --> 00:44:40.679 Alright, I'm following them now. 687 00:44:40.980 --> 00:44:42.539 Todd? 688 00:44:42.539 --> 00:44:46.559 My pick of the week. is not Dr. Who. 689 00:44:46.619 --> 00:44:57.119 It's an album by the band Wang Chung. who are very big in the 1980s having such hits as dance hall days. 690 00:44:57.179 --> 00:45:00.420 Let's go, and probably the most famous one. everybody had fun tonight. 691 00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:04.500 Off their 3rd album, Warmer Side of Cool. 692 00:45:04.559 --> 00:45:05.460 There are 2 tracks. 693 00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:12.239 The 1st one is called Praying to a New God, which I think relates rather nicely to Snake Dance. 694 00:45:12.300 --> 00:45:15.599 And the 3rd track is called Snake Dance. 695 00:45:15.659 --> 00:45:16.619 Oh, wow. 696 00:45:16.679 --> 00:45:23.579 But it relates to a different sort of snake dancing, and I'll just leave it at that, and that's my pick of the week. 697 00:45:23.639 --> 00:45:25.320 Go and check it out on iTunes. 698 00:45:25.380 --> 00:45:25.860 Cool. 699 00:45:25.860 --> 00:45:39.719 Mine isn't sort of particularly sort of relevant or contemporary, but over the last school holiday, when I was on the plane, I read The Writer's Tale again by Russell Davies and Benjamin Cook. 700 00:45:39.780 --> 00:45:43.800 And I love the Russell T. Davies era of Doctor Who. 701 00:45:43.860 --> 00:45:45.000 I really do. 702 00:45:45.059 --> 00:45:48.480 He's my obviously, you know, my favourite of the 2 producers. 703 00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:52.260 And those 1st 4 seasons of Doctor Who, I think, are terrific. 704 00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:53.400 They're really great. 705 00:45:53.460 --> 00:46:11.039 And I also sort of feel that we got to know the production because we had confidential and we had them all on commentaries and, you know, we knew David and Julie and Catherine and all of those people and and so there's something really nice about reminiscing about that era. 706 00:46:11.099 --> 00:46:22.320 And this is a email correspondence between Doctor Who magazine's Benjamin Cook and Russell T. Davis about basically the production of season 4 and the specials. 707 00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:39.900 And it's illustrated with cartoons by Russell T. Davis, who ends up being a really talented cartoonist, and he draws cartoons of the characters and scenes that he imagines and things, and he also talks about what writing is like, and he reflects on his previous shows and stuff. 708 00:46:39.960 --> 00:46:41.099 It's really, really good. 709 00:46:41.460 --> 00:46:44.280 Yeah, yeah, it's it's amazing. 710 00:46:44.340 --> 00:46:50.760 And I know there are a few of our listeners who are not huge new series fans. 711 00:46:50.940 --> 00:47:02.880 I would also recommend this book to them because, as you say, Russell goes into quite a bit of detail and quite a bit of self-analysis as to the positives and the negatives of the new series. 712 00:47:02.940 --> 00:47:18.119 And in particular, his analysis of the next doctor and the solution at the end of the next doctor and how he would have done it differently and why he kind of says, why did I not think of this new plot ending before? 713 00:47:18.179 --> 00:47:21.000 It's so it's so obvious and I've made a terrible mistake. 714 00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:23.760 He's he's an incredibly humble writer. 715 00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:25.800 From these emails. 716 00:47:25.860 --> 00:47:27.719 So it is an amazing book. 717 00:47:27.780 --> 00:47:37.199 And I would also say, um, to anyone who enjoys the book, you can follow Benjamin Cook on Twitter at Benjamin underscore Cook, and he's very entertaining on Twitter as well. 718 00:47:58.260 --> 00:48:04.800 Right, well, that's all the time we have for season 20, and for the King's demons, unless that missing third episode turns up. 719 00:48:05.099 --> 00:48:07.139 Do come back next week. 720 00:48:07.199 --> 00:48:11.760 However, we are back with a commentary on the 5 doctors. 721 00:48:11.820 --> 00:48:14.639 And that is for all 4 of us. 722 00:48:14.699 --> 00:48:16.980 Anything can happen in those 90 minutes. 723 00:48:17.039 --> 00:48:23.340 Until then, you can find us online at flightthroughentirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast. 724 00:48:23.340 --> 00:48:38.639 Twitter over on Bondfinger, where continuing through the Roger Moore era with Moonraker on bondfinger.com, on finger on Facebook and iTunes and Bondfinger cast on Twitter, and I have the complete 60s rundown seasons one to 6 done on Doctor Who in 10 seconds over on YouTube. 725 00:48:38.699 --> 00:48:39.659 So check that out as well. 726 00:48:39.719 --> 00:48:45.059 Until next time, may no one mind control your robots and turn them into Jenna Fielding. 727 00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:46.440 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 728 00:48:46.500 --> 00:48:47.699 Au revoir. 729 00:48:47.760 --> 00:48:48.840 See you soon. 730 00:48:54.900 --> 00:48:57.780 Backwards, flight through entire team. 731 00:48:57.840 --> 00:49:00.119 Todd B will be, Nathan Bottomley and Brendan Jones. 732 00:49:00.179 --> 00:49:02.219 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 733 00:49:02.280 --> 00:49:06.900 This episode, fairly obvious, was recorded on the 31st of July, 2016. 734 00:49:07.139 --> 00:49:09.539 Next episode will be released on October 15. 735 00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:18.360 Fans of ill-conceived shapeshifters can enjoy the series Manimal from 1983, now available on DVD for some reason. 736 00:49:22.500 --> 00:49:24.539 Do you need cough? 737 00:49:24.599 --> 00:49:26.760 No, but I'm having weird breathing issues. 738 00:49:26.820 --> 00:49:27.599 Oh, okay. 739 00:49:27.659 --> 00:49:28.800 Yeah, it's all right. 740 00:49:28.860 --> 00:49:31.440 I should still live to the end of the recording session.