WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 16:26:59 1 00:00:28.679 --> 00:00:32.880 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety 2 00:00:32.880 --> 00:00:35.520 the only Doctor Who podcast whose walk isn't quite right. 3 00:00:35.579 --> 00:00:36.840 And then there's the accents. 4 00:00:36.899 --> 00:00:37.560 I'm Brendan. 5 00:00:37.619 --> 00:00:38.460 I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:40.140 I'm here too. 7 00:00:41.759 --> 00:00:46.439 And we're being sucked down to one of the last planets of humanity 8 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:48.359 and a very young Geoff Rawl. 9 00:00:48.420 --> 00:00:49.679 It's Frontios. 10 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:14.219 Hey, let's drop the dead donkey. 11 00:01:15.780 --> 00:01:21.000 So, um, Christopher Hamilton bit me. fan of the podcast. 12 00:01:21.060 --> 00:01:23.040 Oh, patron of the podcast. 13 00:01:23.099 --> 00:01:24.540 Patron saint of the podcast. 14 00:01:24.599 --> 00:01:28.859 For those of you who don't know, when we recorded our Castro 15 00:01:28.859 --> 00:01:33.299 Volver commentary, during the 1st 5 minutes, Nathan referred to 16 00:01:33.299 --> 00:01:35.219 Castro Volver as being plotless. 17 00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:38.280 Well, I think I said flawed and plotless, to be fair. 18 00:01:38.340 --> 00:01:39.000 That's right. 19 00:01:39.060 --> 00:01:42.780 To which, um, and I did say that about Lagopolis as well, let's 20 00:01:42.780 --> 00:01:43.140 just say. 21 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:47.040 To which Christopher Hamilton bid me delivered a sick burn, which 22 00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:50.519 is the Ramblingest Doctor Who podcast I've ever heard, has the 23 00:01:50.519 --> 00:01:54.299 nerve to call Castraval the plotless, to which we... 24 00:01:54.299 --> 00:01:57.239 You call us ramblingers in a braggadocious name. 25 00:01:57.239 --> 00:01:59.280 Is that even a word? 26 00:01:59.340 --> 00:02:02.700 To which we asked if we could use that as a quotation. 27 00:02:02.700 --> 00:02:05.280 And as you'll see, the ticker on our website, flight through 28 00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:09.719 entirety.sexy, where you can occasionally see ramblingist CH 29 00:02:09.719 --> 00:02:13.439 bidmate because he told us we could cut out any padding. a lot of 30 00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:14.280 padding in that tweet. 31 00:02:14.340 --> 00:02:15.300 I'll tell you what. 32 00:02:15.419 --> 00:02:19.080 We did actually ask if he might like to join us for this podcast 33 00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:22.500 to which he very thankfully, but graciously declined. 34 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:25.080 So we won't be joined by Christopher Hamilton with me. 35 00:02:25.139 --> 00:02:29.099 This is terrific. and we think he's terrific. and I'm serious 36 00:02:29.159 --> 00:02:30.060 really is good. 37 00:02:30.180 --> 00:02:33.180 In fact, it is a little bit unfortunate because I imagine that 38 00:02:33.180 --> 00:02:33.960 Christopher H. 39 00:02:33.960 --> 00:02:37.020 Bidmeat has a lot on his plate and he probably only had time to 40 00:02:37.020 --> 00:02:41.039 listen to the 1st 5 minutes of me bitching about Castrovolver, but 41 00:02:41.039 --> 00:02:44.340 we did spend a lot of time during season 18 and even during the 42 00:02:44.340 --> 00:02:45.539 Castrovolver episode. 43 00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:49.439 Well, no, I think we said he was great. 44 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:53.340 And I think here, I think this is a really strong story. 45 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:54.539 He's one of us. 46 00:02:54.599 --> 00:02:58.560 He grew up reading Fred and Jeffrey Hoyle. 47 00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:01.919 This is good old 60s, 70s hard SF. 48 00:03:01.979 --> 00:03:03.419 It really is. 49 00:03:03.479 --> 00:03:05.460 It's even got, I wanted to say Jeff Coons. 50 00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:10.800 It's even got, it feels like the cover of a 70s Chris Foss 51 00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:13.500 spaceship covered SF novel. 52 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:16.199 It's a proper 60s Doctor Who story. 53 00:03:16.259 --> 00:03:18.300 Do you feel that really we're just in the land of the savages 54 00:03:18.300 --> 00:03:19.860 again or indeed? 55 00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:25.080 Hartner, not even Troughton, but the high concept, big thinking SF 56 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:26.159 ideas of the early shows. 57 00:03:26.219 --> 00:03:29.879 Yeah, it's landing on a world like ours, but something has changed 58 00:03:29.879 --> 00:03:32.819 which was one of the central tenets of Hartnell. 59 00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:35.280 I don't just think this is Mead's best script. 60 00:03:35.340 --> 00:03:36.479 I think this is the best story this season. 61 00:03:36.539 --> 00:03:37.680 Oh for sure. 62 00:03:37.740 --> 00:03:38.400 Definitely. 63 00:03:38.460 --> 00:03:40.740 And I mean, I'm including caves in that. 64 00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:42.539 I think this is a strong season, though. 65 00:03:42.780 --> 00:03:47.039 People disagree, but I do think that Caves is really incredibly 66 00:03:47.039 --> 00:03:50.099 good, but this there's something special about this one. 67 00:03:50.219 --> 00:03:51.539 I actually agree with you. 68 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:55.800 I think that 5 of this season stories are very strong stories and 69 00:03:55.800 --> 00:04:00.300 this is the top of those 5 and 2 of them very clearly languish 70 00:04:00.300 --> 00:04:00.599 behind. 71 00:04:00.659 --> 00:04:02.699 I think I know which 2 are. 72 00:04:02.759 --> 00:04:04.500 Yeah, yeah, we'll discuss that more at the end of the season. 73 00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:05.939 Harsh, but fair. 74 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:07.860 Yeah, in fact, I think there's more than two, but even the ones 75 00:04:07.860 --> 00:04:11.819 that I don't like, even the remakes of Earthshock from last year 76 00:04:11.819 --> 00:04:14.939 they still have things going for them from a production 77 00:04:14.939 --> 00:04:15.599 standpoint. 78 00:04:15.659 --> 00:04:19.079 I think they're really misconceived, but they're not terrible 79 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:19.560 terrible. 80 00:04:19.620 --> 00:04:24.060 I think it's very telling that you refer to Earth Shock as being 81 00:04:24.060 --> 00:04:27.060 last year, forgetting we've had a whole season, a whole rather 82 00:04:27.060 --> 00:04:31.740 mediocre season, in between Earth Shock and Warriors. 83 00:04:31.800 --> 00:04:33.000 So what is the deep? 84 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:36.540 18, 19, 21? 85 00:04:36.540 --> 00:04:37.439 That's all right. 86 00:04:37.500 --> 00:04:39.360 So 19 was Earthshock. 87 00:04:39.420 --> 00:04:40.019 This is 21. 88 00:04:40.500 --> 00:04:43.199 What comes between 19 and 21? 89 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:43.740 20. 90 00:04:44.220 --> 00:04:46.139 You're making me kiddy. 91 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:48.779 This is like we were living in Castrovalva. 92 00:04:48.839 --> 00:04:52.019 Oh, again, where's the child at the washing basin to ask? 93 00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:54.540 We needed the sendant of Carol and John to help us. 94 00:04:54.660 --> 00:04:57.180 Descendant relative, I'm not sure. 95 00:04:57.240 --> 00:05:03.480 So we do have that great sci-fi concept and what's really kind of 96 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:07.920 wonderful about it is, and it's kind of odd that it starts with 97 00:05:07.920 --> 00:05:11.339 Davison being wonderfully eccentric with that stuff about the hat 98 00:05:11.339 --> 00:05:11.819 stand. 99 00:05:12.360 --> 00:05:14.519 You're not hat people, are you? 100 00:05:14.579 --> 00:05:16.139 He does it really well. 101 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:19.560 And friend of the podcast, Peter Griffiths, actually. told me this 102 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:22.920 week that he thinks that this is the best portrayal of the doctor 103 00:05:22.920 --> 00:05:25.319 by anyone in any story. 104 00:05:25.379 --> 00:05:29.759 And I'm not sure that I would go quite that far. strong talk, isn't 105 00:05:29.759 --> 00:05:30.000 it? 106 00:05:30.060 --> 00:05:32.759 But Bidmead gets the character. got a head on that one, hasn't 107 00:05:32.759 --> 00:05:32.879 it? 108 00:05:32.939 --> 00:05:34.680 It's a bold claim. 109 00:05:34.740 --> 00:05:38.759 I think Bidmead writes better dialogue for the doctor than we've 110 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:44.579 had for a while and he gets that the doctor is snarky. 111 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:46.019 He's obnoxious. 112 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:47.100 He doesn't listen to people. 113 00:05:47.160 --> 00:05:48.480 He's kind of dismissive. 114 00:05:48.540 --> 00:05:52.079 All those Thomas things that, you know, they were trying to avoid 115 00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:53.160 for Pete. 116 00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:57.420 Bitmead seems to just come in and do them anyway. right into the 117 00:05:57.420 --> 00:05:58.680 doctor and it's always the same doctor. 118 00:05:58.740 --> 00:06:00.720 And that's a really good take on it. 119 00:06:00.779 --> 00:06:05.100 Let the actor put the spin on it, right generically. let the actor 120 00:06:05.100 --> 00:06:07.980 in rehearsals develop the character. 121 00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:09.779 That's what I actors do Yeah. 122 00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:11.939 And so the idea that Pete's bland. 123 00:06:12.060 --> 00:06:15.899 I think it's just fundamentally... still wearing the beige. 124 00:06:16.019 --> 00:06:17.639 Yeah, the beige. huge costume change. 125 00:06:17.699 --> 00:06:20.579 Yeah, he's a new costume, though. 126 00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:22.319 The whole thing. 127 00:06:22.379 --> 00:06:23.100 Even the shoes. 128 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:25.019 But he's snarky. 129 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:26.339 He torments Tegan. 130 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:27.240 He's impatient. 131 00:06:27.300 --> 00:06:30.060 So he's really at one with a viewer on this one, isn't he? 132 00:06:30.120 --> 00:06:34.560 Well, he's he's the one. yucky, though, because we still get the 133 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:37.980 even though we've got bid meat, who's a powerful force in 134 00:06:37.980 --> 00:06:42.420 narrative writings in Doctor Who, we still get, say, would stick 135 00:06:42.420 --> 00:06:45.420 in his little bilious green finger in it, don't we? 136 00:06:45.420 --> 00:06:48.300 and get a lot of deaths, there are a lot of deaths, but I don't 137 00:06:48.300 --> 00:06:49.319 feel it's like... 138 00:06:49.319 --> 00:06:50.939 It's not as good as we... 139 00:06:51.000 --> 00:06:54.360 It's not, this isn't, this was actually the human centipede. 140 00:06:54.420 --> 00:06:55.800 Yeah, for Doctor Who. 141 00:06:55.860 --> 00:06:58.379 You know, you know what the original plot was, don't you? 142 00:06:58.500 --> 00:07:01.800 So, yeah, the machine that we see at the end was meant to be 143 00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:03.959 entirely made out of human body parts. 144 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:04.860 Out of dancers. 145 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:09.899 Tiny made of dances coupled over each other. crawling along. would 146 00:07:09.899 --> 00:07:10.680 have been spectacular. 147 00:07:10.740 --> 00:07:13.079 I've just been to a Sydney dance company show and everything they 148 00:07:13.079 --> 00:07:15.480 do is inspired by Christopher H. 149 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:16.019 Bitmeans. 150 00:07:16.079 --> 00:07:18.660 There's no way they were ever going to be able to do that. 151 00:07:18.779 --> 00:07:20.040 Oh, why not? 152 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:22.079 No, I've seen it on stage. 153 00:07:22.139 --> 00:07:25.680 I'll send you clips Yeah, it's called untamed if you want to look 154 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:25.920 it up. 155 00:07:25.980 --> 00:07:26.519 SDC. 156 00:07:26.579 --> 00:07:28.079 You know what, though? 157 00:07:28.139 --> 00:07:31.860 After the disappointing realisation of the murker earlier this 158 00:07:31.860 --> 00:07:35.759 year, I'm kind of glad they went for a less is more approach with 159 00:07:35.759 --> 00:07:36.779 that because... 160 00:07:36.779 --> 00:07:39.240 Yeah, big cardboard disc with a head sticking out the front of it 161 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:43.680 in front of a glad wrap, Klingfoil box, serrated edge. 162 00:07:43.740 --> 00:07:44.579 You know what? 163 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:47.459 So you can cut off your lunch wrap with it. 164 00:07:47.519 --> 00:07:50.879 I haven't seen the dance shows you've seen, but certainly I've 165 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:53.879 seen dance shows where dancers will move together as a single 166 00:07:53.879 --> 00:07:57.180 thing, but that takes months of rehearsal. 167 00:07:57.240 --> 00:07:59.160 Very hard work and they need to do it very well. 168 00:07:59.220 --> 00:08:01.920 But you have seen the human centipede one and two, haven't you? 169 00:08:01.980 --> 00:08:03.000 have not. 170 00:08:03.060 --> 00:08:06.240 I will say. look that up immediately. 171 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:07.079 I have. 172 00:08:07.139 --> 00:08:10.079 No, I really don't if you're under a certain I have. 173 00:08:10.139 --> 00:08:12.959 I have seen the South Park episode, The Human Scent I pack. 174 00:08:13.019 --> 00:08:13.860 Yeah, it's very similar. 175 00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:18.899 Um, where um, they tie a few humans together because they won't 176 00:08:18.899 --> 00:08:21.300 read the Apple terms and conditions and that's actually in the 177 00:08:21.300 --> 00:08:23.879 Apple conditions that Apple can do this to you. 178 00:08:23.939 --> 00:08:28.920 But I wrote down an observation in the 1st episode of this. at the 179 00:08:28.920 --> 00:08:30.300 moment to do listener. 180 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:31.980 Mouth and ear. 181 00:08:32.039 --> 00:08:35.279 I don't know. 182 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:37.019 Don't have the veal. 183 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:37.440 Okay. 184 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:39.179 I had lettuce. 185 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:44.759 Like, I got halfway through the 1st episode of this and I'm like 186 00:08:44.759 --> 00:08:46.679 we've gone well drawn characters. 187 00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:47.460 We do. 188 00:08:47.460 --> 00:08:48.600 My gravis has no nose. 189 00:08:48.899 --> 00:08:50.879 How does it smell? 190 00:08:50.940 --> 00:08:52.860 He went to his own accord. 191 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:56.460 Well-drawn characters. 192 00:08:56.519 --> 00:08:59.460 Sparkling dialogue, sympathetic music. 193 00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:01.860 And I just wrote, what series is this? 194 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:03.539 It's Patty Kingsland. 195 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:04.679 It's Patty Kingsley's. 196 00:09:04.740 --> 00:09:06.480 But it's Ron Jones directing. 197 00:09:06.539 --> 00:09:09.720 It actually does a really good joke. 198 00:09:09.779 --> 00:09:13.080 I think he suffered a savage blow to the head in post-production. 199 00:09:13.139 --> 00:09:16.200 Is it just that when everything else goes well, you kind of 200 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:17.100 competence. 201 00:09:17.159 --> 00:09:18.480 And he is a competent director. 202 00:09:18.539 --> 00:09:19.799 Because it's not visionary. 203 00:09:19.860 --> 00:09:21.480 You know what I think it might be? 204 00:09:21.539 --> 00:09:23.580 At this point he's still relatively inexperienced. 205 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:26.820 There's some crappy moments, like the violent stuff of the killing 206 00:09:26.820 --> 00:09:29.159 of one of the outer people, and you think this is just like a 207 00:09:29.159 --> 00:09:32.700 static camera, and it goes on too long, and it's yucky pants 208 00:09:32.759 --> 00:09:33.899 that's true. 209 00:09:34.200 --> 00:09:37.740 Yeah, they're in really nice ways that have shot it, but the ship 210 00:09:37.740 --> 00:09:40.200 itself, the idea of the ship is so beautifully realised. 211 00:09:40.259 --> 00:09:42.000 It looks like OB, doesn't it? 212 00:09:42.059 --> 00:09:42.960 Even though it's all studio. 213 00:09:43.019 --> 00:09:46.139 It's a studio bound story that doesn't feel studio bound. 214 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:48.659 You don't feel like you've got a roof because the sky is decent. 215 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:49.980 The proportions are well done. 216 00:09:50.100 --> 00:09:52.919 Leslie Dunlop is just delightful. 217 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:55.080 And not covered in pink. 218 00:09:55.139 --> 00:09:55.980 Once again. 219 00:09:56.159 --> 00:10:00.840 You know, for the 2nd story running, we have someone where you're 220 00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:03.000 like, why don't you join the TARDIS at the end? 221 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:03.419 Again. 222 00:10:03.419 --> 00:10:04.980 Who's her dad again? 223 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:06.840 Peter Gilmore from the Enedon line, isn't it? 224 00:10:06.899 --> 00:10:09.779 Well, her dad is Peter Gilmore is in the story, but her dad is 225 00:10:09.779 --> 00:10:10.620 William Lucas. 226 00:10:10.679 --> 00:10:11.399 Oh, that's fine. 227 00:10:11.460 --> 00:10:12.120 She's also lovely. 228 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:13.679 And this is a bit sad. 229 00:10:13.740 --> 00:10:15.059 We might as well tell this story now. 230 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:17.700 Mr. Range played by William Lucas. 231 00:10:17.759 --> 00:10:20.159 Originally cast was Peter Arn. 232 00:10:20.220 --> 00:10:24.179 Is there a delicate way to say that his interests in a personal 233 00:10:24.179 --> 00:10:27.779 level were ones that would lead to extreme behaviour and 234 00:10:27.779 --> 00:10:29.159 eventually lead to his death? 235 00:10:29.220 --> 00:10:34.919 And he had a very difficult and repressed life and wasn't out, but 236 00:10:34.919 --> 00:10:36.059 he was very big. 237 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:42.779 He was mates with George, who was Francis Bacon's lover, and very 238 00:10:42.779 --> 00:10:47.159 heavily into the SM London underground scene, the art scene. 239 00:10:47.220 --> 00:10:50.039 So he was mates with Francis Bacon and Jordan very much on that 240 00:10:50.039 --> 00:10:56.100 extreme end. proclivity and he died a very unpleasant death by a 241 00:10:56.100 --> 00:10:57.179 lover who killed him. 242 00:10:57.240 --> 00:11:00.120 It's a bit difficult to determine exactly what happened, but he 243 00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:03.600 was found bludgeoned to death on the afternoon after a costume 244 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:08.220 fitting for this story, and a few days later, someone he was known 245 00:11:08.220 --> 00:11:12.360 to have associated with was found to have committed suicide. with 246 00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:14.220 Peter Arm's blood on his clothes. 247 00:11:14.279 --> 00:11:15.960 So it's very unpleasant. 248 00:11:16.019 --> 00:11:17.580 William Lucas was kind of called in. 249 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:21.539 So he never got to the stage where he met the rest of the cast, but 250 00:11:21.539 --> 00:11:24.419 the rest of the cast were aware they were having Peter on on the 251 00:11:24.419 --> 00:11:28.620 show and it was a big deal to have people on the show. 252 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:32.279 Very good actor. saturnine, very controlled, very cool, great 253 00:11:32.279 --> 00:11:35.700 drama because of course he brought that aspect of his own life 254 00:11:35.700 --> 00:11:38.700 into the light and that's what a good actor can do. 255 00:11:38.759 --> 00:11:42.480 There are 2 Kathy Gale Avengers episodes he's in. 256 00:11:42.539 --> 00:11:47.820 Warlock and the Golden Eggs, which were shot 2 months apart. 257 00:11:47.879 --> 00:11:52.200 So the idea was in the latter one, he had his hair lightened. 258 00:11:52.259 --> 00:11:55.379 He put glasses on, played it with different accent, et cetera. 259 00:11:55.500 --> 00:11:59.039 Due to a scheduling quirk, they were broadcast 2 weeks apart. 260 00:11:59.100 --> 00:12:02.820 But if you watch them that way, you still don't quite twig because 261 00:12:02.820 --> 00:12:04.559 his 2 characters are so different. 262 00:12:04.620 --> 00:12:07.620 And that is his strength as an actor. 263 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:08.399 And of course, he did. 264 00:12:08.460 --> 00:12:13.019 The prisoner and other shows of the time, the saint, that sort of 265 00:12:13.019 --> 00:12:13.379 thing. 266 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:15.419 So yeah, he was quite a coup to get. 267 00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:17.460 And he was replaced by William Lucas. 268 00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:21.000 Now, I think William Lucas is absolutely lovely in the role, and 269 00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:24.360 he's such warmth with Leslie Dunlop as his daughter as Norna. 270 00:12:24.419 --> 00:12:25.259 Really lovely. 271 00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:29.639 Yeah, and it's kind of odd because he's sort of a bit of a fuddy 272 00:12:28.980 --> 00:12:32.940 duddy character and a bit of a fuddy-duddy performance, but you 273 00:12:32.940 --> 00:12:34.860 never feel he is a comedy character. 274 00:12:34.919 --> 00:12:38.399 He provides some comic relief, but he's never a comedy character. 275 00:12:38.460 --> 00:12:40.200 Peter Gilmore is brazen. 276 00:12:40.259 --> 00:12:41.039 I kind of fancy him. 277 00:12:41.100 --> 00:12:42.419 He's got great hair. 278 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:43.919 Lots and lots of hair. 279 00:12:43.980 --> 00:12:45.179 Huge quantities of it. 280 00:12:45.299 --> 00:12:46.799 And there's that... 281 00:12:46.799 --> 00:12:50.039 Like enough for 4 per twees from season 11, I think. 282 00:12:50.100 --> 00:12:54.059 There's a great bit, I think, in episode 3 where during the 283 00:12:54.059 --> 00:12:57.000 hearing, Turlow keeps going on about the tractators and everyone 284 00:12:57.000 --> 00:13:00.539 tries to shut him up and Gilmore just sidles up to him and says, I 285 00:13:00.539 --> 00:13:03.480 want to hear all about this. 286 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:05.580 He's a great. 287 00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:08.820 He is a great character because do you remember Cree song in 288 00:13:08.820 --> 00:13:11.279 the... 289 00:13:11.340 --> 00:13:14.340 Yes, Norman Jones, later Hieronymus. 290 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:18.960 He starts off as being sort of really military and rigid and ends 291 00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:22.620 up being quite thoughtful and interesting. 292 00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:24.360 And I think Brazen does that as well. 293 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:28.679 You know, you think that Brazen's an antagonist because he's Mr 294 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:31.799 Shouty, and because he doesn't care about the retrogrades being 295 00:13:31.799 --> 00:13:35.039 killed and all of that sort of thing, and, you know, he's the 296 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:38.220 obstacle trying to prevent them from getting into the ship to get 297 00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:38.820 the battery. 298 00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:42.600 So he looks like he's going to be an antagonist, but he's actually 299 00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:44.519 really genuinely sympathetic. 300 00:13:44.580 --> 00:13:48.480 And when he reveals that he saw what happened to Captain Revere 301 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:50.340 towards the end, Yeah. 302 00:13:50.340 --> 00:13:53.580 You know, it becomes clear that he really does care about what 303 00:13:53.580 --> 00:13:54.720 happens to the colony. 304 00:13:54.779 --> 00:13:56.340 He really does want to protect people. 305 00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:01.320 He's not not just acting out of kind of military discipline or 306 00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:01.559 something. 307 00:14:01.620 --> 00:14:04.259 And then of course, he sacrifices himself. 308 00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:09.059 And it's really clear that he really loves Plantagenet as well 309 00:14:09.059 --> 00:14:11.519 like a father. you know, that comes across. 310 00:14:11.580 --> 00:14:14.759 And his sacrifice, again, yeah, you're right, Richard, that 311 00:14:14.759 --> 00:14:18.960 machine is very, very clumsy and it kind of it kind of robs the 312 00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:19.559 moment somewhat. 313 00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:23.159 That and the realisation that the tractators ruin the show. 314 00:14:23.220 --> 00:14:24.659 We wanted zombie, didn't we? 315 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:25.740 And we thought that's what beginning. 316 00:14:25.799 --> 00:14:28.919 Again, the flexibility that you talked about that's envisioned by 317 00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:31.799 the writers and that these things would, you know, be dancers and 318 00:14:31.799 --> 00:14:34.259 be able to roll up into a ball and roll about. 319 00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:36.779 But they were never going to be able to realise that. 320 00:14:36.840 --> 00:14:41.820 So they end up being big, stupid looking fibreglass things with 321 00:14:41.820 --> 00:14:42.120 the hands. 322 00:14:42.179 --> 00:14:46.259 But compare the reveal of the Tractators at the end of episode two 323 00:14:46.259 --> 00:14:48.720 when Turlo and Norna walk past them and they're just part of the 324 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:49.559 walls and then they turn. 325 00:14:49.620 --> 00:14:53.100 You know, I think I think it cuts a few seconds too late, but 326 00:14:53.100 --> 00:14:55.980 compare that to excellent skimmers. 327 00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:57.299 I'm just going to do that every week. 328 00:14:58.259 --> 00:15:02.820 God, Ron Jones, after your last 2 failures. 329 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:04.440 Well, bloody done, mate. 330 00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:06.779 Well, you are doing a brilliant job with this. 331 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:09.419 I think everyone liked him and got on. 332 00:15:09.480 --> 00:15:11.340 It was still a very tight shoot, wasn't it? 333 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:13.440 They were really running behind. 334 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:16.980 I'm like, worries of the deep, which at least had a little bit of 335 00:15:16.980 --> 00:15:17.580 pre-filming. 336 00:15:17.700 --> 00:15:22.620 This was entirely studio bound and compared to other studio bound 337 00:15:22.620 --> 00:15:25.679 stories, like say, actually, not even terminus, because terminus 338 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:26.340 had pre-filming. 339 00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:30.000 Actually, the studio pound stories of the Davidson era tend to do 340 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:32.220 quite well for like... 341 00:15:32.220 --> 00:15:34.860 For to Doomsday is quite... 342 00:15:34.860 --> 00:15:35.639 Enlightenment. 343 00:15:35.700 --> 00:15:39.779 You know, they're up against the clock, but I think possibly 344 00:15:39.779 --> 00:15:44.039 because they don't have the filming element, the crews are a bit 345 00:15:44.039 --> 00:15:45.720 more aware we've got to try and make this look good. 346 00:15:45.779 --> 00:15:49.500 I think the sets look amazing. good, actually. 347 00:15:49.559 --> 00:15:51.960 I think we've gone on about this, so they won't do it again. 348 00:15:52.019 --> 00:15:53.759 I don't think we mind doing that though. 349 00:15:53.820 --> 00:15:56.399 Everything's visually interesting. 350 00:15:56.460 --> 00:15:57.960 Like, the shots are interesting. 351 00:15:58.019 --> 00:15:59.159 The colour is really good. 352 00:15:59.220 --> 00:16:03.120 Gorgeous matte paintings to make the ship look huge. 353 00:16:03.179 --> 00:16:03.779 Yeah. 354 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:04.440 Yeah, yeah. 355 00:16:04.500 --> 00:16:07.019 It does feel like proper 70s. 356 00:16:07.019 --> 00:16:08.519 Well, who am I thinking of? 357 00:16:08.580 --> 00:16:09.480 But maybe Philip C. 358 00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:09.720 Dick. 359 00:16:09.779 --> 00:16:11.220 Anyway, that doesn't matter, does it? 360 00:16:11.340 --> 00:16:12.120 a whole lot of writers. 361 00:16:12.179 --> 00:16:15.899 And that great set for the track tators down underneath with the 362 00:16:15.899 --> 00:16:20.100 big spherical cage to keep Plantagenet in and like it's a weird 363 00:16:20.100 --> 00:16:23.940 open space with all this sort of negative space instead of walls. 364 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:25.500 Yes, we love the negative space. 365 00:16:25.559 --> 00:16:28.200 Yeah, no, I think it's really, it looks great. 366 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:31.919 I think the music is fantastic Tastes surreal. 367 00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:33.059 Possibly go wrong, yeah. 368 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:38.879 And it's kind of weird because most of episodes two, three, and 4 369 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:42.539 is people wandering about caves, but it never feels boring. 370 00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:43.379 No. 371 00:16:43.379 --> 00:16:47.220 And there's lots of capture and escape and release of what have 372 00:16:47.220 --> 00:16:47.399 you. 373 00:16:47.460 --> 00:16:52.139 You get that beautiful moment where the doctor and Tegan are 374 00:16:52.139 --> 00:16:54.240 captured and they're sliding along on their butts. 375 00:16:54.539 --> 00:16:56.159 So to speak. 376 00:16:56.220 --> 00:16:59.519 And again, they're really charming in that scene, and the whole 377 00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:03.299 thing with Tegan being an android, and the doctor and the gravis 378 00:17:03.299 --> 00:17:06.359 flirting outrageously. 379 00:17:06.420 --> 00:17:10.140 I mean, the doctor really torments Tegan quite a lot in this story 380 00:17:10.140 --> 00:17:14.099 and it's really fun to watch and there's really something going on 381 00:17:14.099 --> 00:17:15.359 with the relationship there. 382 00:17:15.420 --> 00:17:19.319 Is there a moment in episode one where like Turlow and Teagan just 383 00:17:19.319 --> 00:17:22.440 roll their eyes at each other about how irritating the doctor is? 384 00:17:22.500 --> 00:17:23.160 Yeah, yeah. 385 00:17:23.220 --> 00:17:25.799 I think it's when he he's been saying, we can't interfere, we 386 00:17:25.799 --> 00:17:26.880 can't interfere, we can't interfere. 387 00:17:26.940 --> 00:17:27.779 Right, I'm going to operate. 388 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:30.119 You go get this stuff from the TARDS and they just go, oh, fuck 389 00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:30.480 God. 390 00:17:30.539 --> 00:17:36.839 I love it when he rushes in to save Plantagenet and tells Tegan to 391 00:17:36.839 --> 00:17:39.119 rip the wires down off the walls. 392 00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:39.779 Just put them up. 393 00:17:39.779 --> 00:17:42.779 Yes, jolly good. go and rip them down again. 394 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:44.579 He's so great. 395 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:49.019 I mean, there are a few things I look at with the story and go 396 00:17:49.019 --> 00:17:51.900 well, why is that like the doctor being so concerned about the 397 00:17:51.900 --> 00:17:53.579 time lords finding Addy's interfering? 398 00:17:53.640 --> 00:17:55.140 But at the same time... 399 00:17:55.140 --> 00:17:56.400 It is lovely. 400 00:17:56.460 --> 00:17:58.680 It's very 60s, except it's got time laws. 401 00:17:58.740 --> 00:18:00.720 We're at the edge of the known universe. 402 00:18:00.779 --> 00:18:04.319 And there's some really great fan wanky things to think about why 403 00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:07.019 the Tartars can't go any further and where this is. 404 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:11.279 You know, is this 2000000 years in the future with the mysterious 405 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:11.759 planet? 406 00:18:11.819 --> 00:18:13.619 No, the Marcus 10 million. 407 00:18:13.740 --> 00:18:18.119 So are we, or are we the end of the world with Eccleston? 408 00:18:18.180 --> 00:18:22.920 No, I think that we would be foolish to try. 409 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:25.440 No, chronology of the guy. 410 00:18:25.500 --> 00:18:29.039 But this does give rise to the fantastic scene where Turlo is 411 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:33.059 reading off about the planet in the Varuna system where he's 412 00:18:33.059 --> 00:18:37.619 talking about the doomed planet Earth with absolute relish, just 413 00:18:37.619 --> 00:18:40.079 just Susan. 414 00:18:40.140 --> 00:18:43.559 Yes, just to piss off Tegan slash. 415 00:18:43.619 --> 00:18:48.299 But what I love is Tegan in season 19 would have stomped her feet 416 00:18:48.299 --> 00:18:50.099 and been shouting and screaming. 417 00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:52.980 Tegan in this just kind of gives him daggers. 418 00:18:53.819 --> 00:18:58.619 You know, she doesn't need, you know, makes a political statement 419 00:18:58.619 --> 00:19:00.539 without even raising her eyebrows. 420 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:04.980 So let's think about the things that lift what is essentially a 421 00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:09.059 story about people wandering around studio corridors talking to 422 00:19:09.059 --> 00:19:09.599 one another. 423 00:19:09.660 --> 00:19:11.400 What lifts it? 424 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:14.519 And like it is the music, it is the set design. 425 00:19:14.579 --> 00:19:18.839 But I think that there are some things in the plot and you touched 426 00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:22.440 upon it, the incredible high concept, the fact that this is a 427 00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:28.680 colony of people from the future, maybe the last people alive, you 428 00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:31.440 know, who the doctor's trying to save, and that gives it a kind of 429 00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:32.880 mythical quality. 430 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:35.099 It certainly does. 431 00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:39.240 And it, again, it's doing stuff that bid me does really well that 432 00:19:39.240 --> 00:19:41.640 we don't see many other writers in Doctor Who doing. 433 00:19:41.700 --> 00:19:42.839 That's being brave. 434 00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:43.980 Yeah, yeah. 435 00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:44.940 Yeah, absolutely. 436 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:46.619 I was having a discussion. 437 00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:48.720 This is a bit off topic, but I was having a discussion with a 438 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:52.079 friend the other day about, um, uh, the hungry earth and cold 439 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:52.380 blood. 440 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:53.279 Yes. 441 00:19:53.339 --> 00:19:55.140 I'm meant to mention that here. 442 00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:59.819 And, you know, you've got the link to Frontios with people being 443 00:19:59.819 --> 00:20:00.960 dragged under the earth. 444 00:20:01.019 --> 00:20:04.559 But the other thing is, people talk about that story being so 445 00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:06.000 disappointing because of the ending. 446 00:20:06.059 --> 00:20:08.220 And I agree the ending's disappointing because that was a real 447 00:20:08.220 --> 00:20:12.059 chance to go, you know, we're not in Russell T. Davies, Doctor Who 448 00:20:12.059 --> 00:20:12.720 universe anymore. 449 00:20:12.779 --> 00:20:16.140 We're now going to have lizard people wandering about the streets 450 00:20:16.140 --> 00:20:18.240 with humans for the next few years. 451 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:21.180 And that would have been a brave thing to do. 452 00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:24.720 And that is the kind of brave thing that Christopher Hamilton bid 453 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:25.440 me does here. 454 00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:28.859 At the end of the story, they don't have a thriving colony. 455 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:30.960 They're still on starvation point. 456 00:20:31.019 --> 00:20:34.380 They just have a chance to start again and the doctor just goes 457 00:20:34.380 --> 00:20:34.680 off. 458 00:20:34.740 --> 00:20:39.420 It's not the end of the sun makers where it's like, now you're 459 00:20:39.420 --> 00:20:41.099 completely free and you have all this technology. 460 00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:43.259 It's like, actually, you're in the same position you were before. 461 00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:46.440 There's just nothing acting externally on you now. 462 00:20:46.500 --> 00:20:49.680 It's a happy ending, but not a miraculous ending. 463 00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:51.599 And I think it's more realistic because of that. 464 00:20:51.660 --> 00:20:53.339 And it raises the stakes. 465 00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:55.680 It just makes it a little bit more interesting. 466 00:20:55.799 --> 00:20:59.460 I think your stuff as well, Richard, about the doctor's reluctance 467 00:20:59.460 --> 00:21:03.420 to interfere because he's a timelord and he'll be in trouble for 468 00:21:03.420 --> 00:21:07.259 intervening at what must be a crunch point in human history. 469 00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:11.400 And the fact that Gravis knows of Galifrea knows what a TARDIS is 470 00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:13.440 and, you know, knows about the doctor, I think. 471 00:21:13.500 --> 00:21:15.180 Although there's a lot of that. 472 00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:18.240 We had the Silurians knowing far too much about all of that in the 473 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:18.960 story. 474 00:21:19.019 --> 00:21:21.119 But I do like what you're saying here. 475 00:21:21.180 --> 00:21:24.420 This to me, because Bidmeat is so clever and so good. 476 00:21:24.480 --> 00:21:28.500 Hello, Chris, is so good at what he does and the high concept 477 00:21:28.500 --> 00:21:28.859 stuff. 478 00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:30.720 I think this also touches on philosophy. 479 00:21:30.779 --> 00:21:35.579 You know about Wittkenstein's piece on Tractatus, which Bidmead 480 00:21:35.579 --> 00:21:38.160 said, you know, bully for him for saying he said he wasn't aware 481 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:42.240 of or hadn't recalled when he wrote this, but it was basically 482 00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:46.619 with constraints, Tractatus's piece was on the mathematical 483 00:21:46.619 --> 00:21:49.799 promulgations and the way we're viewing the world a purely 484 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:52.680 solipsistic and that there isn't anything a priori. 485 00:21:52.740 --> 00:21:55.200 So in other words, it's all nurture, it's not nature. 486 00:21:55.259 --> 00:21:58.500 So our way of living in the world, a way of viewing the world, our 487 00:21:58.500 --> 00:22:02.819 social constructs, all the rest of it, even and he's coming from a 488 00:22:02.819 --> 00:22:08.039 mathematical point that what we see as universal truths, and this 489 00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:10.859 is pre-Hawkins, but what we see as universal truths, are actually 490 00:22:10.859 --> 00:22:16.259 simply out applied code for rationalising, in a Newtonian sense 491 00:22:16.259 --> 00:22:20.220 that very small sliver of reality that we can see. 492 00:22:20.279 --> 00:22:23.460 And I like that Bidmead looks at pretty much all his scripts and 493 00:22:23.460 --> 00:22:27.480 says that we are actually little microbes on a Petri dish and we 494 00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:30.000 can only deal with what we have and what we have here. 495 00:22:30.059 --> 00:22:34.740 And that is both terrifying and humbling, and actually kind and 496 00:22:34.740 --> 00:22:38.039 isolating, but it's actually kind of, well, we just have to do the 497 00:22:38.039 --> 00:22:39.779 best we can and make the most of it. 498 00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:43.559 And there's actually a really lovely, if you want to say, almost a 499 00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:46.559 Buddhist concept to it, because Doctor Who talks about that a lot 500 00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:50.339 as well as we've noticed, is to just say, be the best you possibly 501 00:22:50.339 --> 00:22:52.200 can, that is your purpose in life. 502 00:22:52.319 --> 00:22:55.799 Your only purpose is you have a very limited horizon. 503 00:22:55.859 --> 00:23:00.599 You live on a tiny speck at the end of a barely fashionable arm of 504 00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:01.799 the spiral galaxy. 505 00:23:01.859 --> 00:23:04.440 Do what you can and be the best that you can be. 506 00:23:04.500 --> 00:23:08.579 And this story seems to say the same thing, even with threats that 507 00:23:08.579 --> 00:23:10.680 are, that couldn't be any greater. 508 00:23:10.740 --> 00:23:12.660 You actually have the sky falling on your heads. 509 00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:16.680 We've got an asterisk comic villain here that distends and 510 00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:20.400 distorts gravity and destroys the whole process of Doctor Who 511 00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:21.779 itself, which is the TARDIS. 512 00:23:21.900 --> 00:23:25.619 This script is about pulling apart the concept and precept of what 513 00:23:25.619 --> 00:23:26.279 Doctor Who is. 514 00:23:26.339 --> 00:23:29.759 Did you get a sense when you were watching this that the TARDIS 515 00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:30.359 was gone now? 516 00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:31.859 Where is this gonna go? 517 00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:32.819 You know what? 518 00:23:32.880 --> 00:23:35.460 I only have very vague memories of this story as a kid. 519 00:23:35.519 --> 00:23:37.380 It was one I had when I was 5 years old. 520 00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:40.920 And what I remember about it is watching it with my brother. 521 00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:44.759 And my brother was 9 years older than me, so we weren't incredibly 522 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:45.359 close as kids. 523 00:23:45.420 --> 00:23:50.819 But I was so terrified after watching this at the age of 5 that my 524 00:23:50.819 --> 00:23:54.599 brother actually let me sleep with him in his bed because I 525 00:23:54.599 --> 00:23:55.680 couldn't sleep otherwise. 526 00:23:55.740 --> 00:23:56.940 We had a bunk. 527 00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:01.079 And I remember for years afterwards, if I ever pulled it off the 528 00:24:01.079 --> 00:24:03.000 shelves, he would say you're not allowed to watch that one. 529 00:24:03.539 --> 00:24:06.299 Because we're never having that evening again. 530 00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:10.559 Was it the cliffhanger to episode one that scared you? 531 00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:12.480 I think it was the decapitation. 532 00:24:12.539 --> 00:24:13.980 Yeah, that is awful. 533 00:24:14.039 --> 00:24:15.119 But that's the thing. 534 00:24:15.180 --> 00:24:17.400 I can't remember the Cliffhanger to episode one, but watching it 535 00:24:17.400 --> 00:24:17.700 now. 536 00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:21.900 I kind of feel like it's similar to when the same thing happens in 537 00:24:21.900 --> 00:24:23.279 the magician's apprentice. 538 00:24:23.339 --> 00:24:27.000 You know the TARDIS is not going to be destroyed because then you 539 00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:27.480 don't have a show. 540 00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:30.599 You know the backstory, don't you? 541 00:24:30.660 --> 00:24:31.980 JNT. 542 00:24:31.980 --> 00:24:33.180 Thank you. 543 00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:35.339 He wanted to get rid of the TARDS, yeah. 544 00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:38.819 But I think it was him just doing his normal publicity thing to 545 00:24:38.819 --> 00:24:40.259 try and up the stakes. 546 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:41.220 D dog dog. 547 00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:45.240 Remember that we were watching it at the time at the 1st run when 548 00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:49.740 we saw Frontios, we hadn't seen Resurrection of the Daleks. 549 00:24:49.799 --> 00:24:50.279 Yeah, true. 550 00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:52.980 And so we didn't know that it was going to be fair. 551 00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:54.359 So you thought it might actually? 552 00:24:54.359 --> 00:24:59.640 Possibly, it was we're young and maybe, you know, a little bit 553 00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:03.960 naive, but I remember being incredibly shocked by that cliffhanger 554 00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:07.200 and finding the beginning of episode 2 really bleak. 555 00:25:07.259 --> 00:25:11.460 And I think it is a shame that they don't really follow through on 556 00:25:11.460 --> 00:25:11.700 it. 557 00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:15.480 The closest analogue I could think of was the impossible planet 558 00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:18.240 where you get that scene between Billy and the doctor talking 559 00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:21.299 about having to settle down and get mortgages and carpet and stuff 560 00:25:21.299 --> 00:25:24.240 like that because they don't have carpet doesn't it? 561 00:25:24.299 --> 00:25:25.200 It does. 562 00:25:25.259 --> 00:25:26.519 Tenants obsessed with it. 563 00:25:26.579 --> 00:25:28.680 Oh, it really brings on my allergies. 564 00:25:28.740 --> 00:25:31.740 But this doesn't quite do that, does it? 565 00:25:31.799 --> 00:25:34.619 There's one or 2 lines about not having a tartus, but they never 566 00:25:34.619 --> 00:25:35.640 really reflect about it. 567 00:25:35.700 --> 00:25:38.819 It does the usual thing of, I'll just put that over there and not 568 00:25:38.819 --> 00:25:39.539 think about it. 569 00:25:39.660 --> 00:25:41.579 He's been the busiest doctor. 570 00:25:41.819 --> 00:25:43.859 And he's done that before. 571 00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:45.180 Something horrible has happened. 572 00:25:45.240 --> 00:25:47.519 Adrik, I just won't think about that right now. 573 00:25:47.579 --> 00:25:51.599 It's like that scene in The Simpsons where Ned's got his 2 sons 574 00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:54.720 that I can't remember why, but they're talking about women and one 575 00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:55.500 of his sons. 576 00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:58.859 Yeah, I think I think Rod, his youngest son says, girls are so 577 00:25:58.859 --> 00:26:02.460 lucky, they get to wear dresses, and they just says, one problem 578 00:26:02.460 --> 00:26:03.779 at a time, running. 579 00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:09.900 I think there's something in that for most listeners. 580 00:26:10.019 --> 00:26:14.460 I think as a kid, I looked at that. 581 00:26:14.519 --> 00:26:16.019 And with the magician's apprentice. 582 00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:19.799 It's like, I don't care that I know that this cliffhanger will 583 00:26:19.799 --> 00:26:20.759 have a solution. 584 00:26:20.819 --> 00:26:22.259 I care about what the solution is. 585 00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:24.240 I don't actually think the lady's been sawn in half. 586 00:26:24.420 --> 00:26:26.759 I care about how the trick works. 587 00:26:26.819 --> 00:26:28.619 That's what Bidmead wants us to do. 588 00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:31.440 He wants us to be right in there with the characters and solve the 589 00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:32.220 problem in the moment. 590 00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:35.160 Yeah, but we don't get a resolution until episode four. 591 00:26:35.220 --> 00:26:36.599 I mean we are left with it. 592 00:26:36.660 --> 00:26:38.700 And I think that resolution he does. 593 00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:40.980 And we've talked about this before how Christopher Hamilton 594 00:26:40.980 --> 00:26:44.039 Bidmead is a huge fan of using science in the program, real 595 00:26:44.039 --> 00:26:45.960 measurable science, but he uses magic as well. 596 00:26:46.019 --> 00:26:46.859 He always does. 597 00:26:46.859 --> 00:26:50.160 And I do think that putting the TARDIS back together, there is a 598 00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:53.160 bit of an explanation, but it's a great combination of science and 599 00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:53.640 magic. 600 00:26:53.700 --> 00:26:57.839 And I love the, like the doctor says, you know, the internal 601 00:26:57.839 --> 00:26:58.980 dimensions have been dispersed. 602 00:26:59.039 --> 00:27:01.559 It's like, actually, yes, that fits everything we know about the 603 00:27:01.559 --> 00:27:04.920 title, so that it could just disperse its dimensions around this 604 00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:05.160 area. 605 00:27:05.220 --> 00:27:07.440 It is a little bit of a cheat. 606 00:27:07.500 --> 00:27:10.259 It's a little bit of a cheat, but at the same time, it still works 607 00:27:10.259 --> 00:27:11.220 within the context. 608 00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:15.059 Like in a way, as much as I enjoy the magician's apprentice, which 609 00:27:15.059 --> 00:27:17.640 is familiar, the doctor at the end just saying, oh, it's the 610 00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:19.200 hostile action dispersal system. 611 00:27:19.259 --> 00:27:22.079 It's like, um you've never mentioned this before. 612 00:27:22.140 --> 00:27:25.200 It's like that bit at the end of day of the doctor where he says 613 00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:26.759 Clara often asks me if I dream. 614 00:27:26.819 --> 00:27:29.700 It's like, no, she has never asked you that for the last 8 615 00:27:29.700 --> 00:27:30.180 episodes. 616 00:27:30.299 --> 00:27:31.500 Not once. 617 00:27:32.220 --> 00:27:35.339 But they never stop talking about it between episodes. 618 00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:38.339 Yeah, that's all they do, which is why, thankfully, we never get 619 00:27:38.339 --> 00:27:39.059 to see that. 620 00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:41.940 It's a shame that camera was off because we were just talking. 621 00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:45.720 I think this is a little bit fairer and once it's explained, you 622 00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:48.660 kind of go, oh, you know, I can understand how that works within 623 00:27:48.660 --> 00:27:50.039 the rules of the program. 624 00:27:50.039 --> 00:27:53.220 But you don't think the gravis should have realised that we'd have 625 00:27:53.220 --> 00:27:56.039 been cut off from his chums once he put the TARDIS back together? 626 00:27:56.099 --> 00:27:58.859 It's Peter Rabbit and the farmer, you know, oh no, you couldn't 627 00:27:58.859 --> 00:28:00.000 possibly be strong enough to do that. 628 00:28:00.059 --> 00:28:03.420 I've got friends working on that film right now. getting shot here 629 00:28:03.420 --> 00:28:04.140 in Sydney. 630 00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:05.579 Oh, Peter Rabbit. 631 00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:06.900 Not that I've ever done this at work. 632 00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:08.759 I've totally done this. 633 00:28:08.819 --> 00:28:11.880 But I think we have all at some point, there's been something 634 00:28:11.880 --> 00:28:15.299 that's actually someone else's job to do, and they try to put it 635 00:28:15.299 --> 00:28:18.660 on you, and you just point out how actually they're much better 636 00:28:18.660 --> 00:28:22.619 suited to it, and you do it in such a way that they go, oh, yes 637 00:28:22.619 --> 00:28:23.220 you're quite right. 638 00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:25.559 I'm much better. and that's what the doctor does here. 639 00:28:25.619 --> 00:28:29.940 You know, he uses flattery to fool the gravis to the point that 640 00:28:29.940 --> 00:28:32.759 gravis doesn't really know he's being fooled until it's too late. 641 00:28:32.819 --> 00:28:33.900 I know you never realised. 642 00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:36.420 He looks so sweet. 643 00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:39.420 But it must be one passive aggressive number. 644 00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:40.920 It's like an inverted Oreo. 645 00:28:40.980 --> 00:28:43.200 All the dark stuff's in the middle. 646 00:28:44.460 --> 00:28:47.339 Lick it out and see listeners. 647 00:28:47.339 --> 00:28:48.539 Oh my. 648 00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:50.339 I was talking about biscuits. 649 00:28:50.400 --> 00:28:52.380 I love Peter's performance in that scene. 650 00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:54.539 I was like, no, no, leave me the TARDIS, please. 651 00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:57.240 Yeah, that he's so good in that scene. 652 00:28:57.240 --> 00:28:58.559 And the sort of Turlo pops up. 653 00:28:58.619 --> 00:28:59.039 What are you doing? 654 00:28:59.099 --> 00:28:59.460 Get down. 655 00:28:59.519 --> 00:29:02.759 I like that they are actually witcherty grubs. 656 00:29:02.819 --> 00:29:05.759 Fibreglass, which is grubs, yeah. 657 00:29:05.819 --> 00:29:08.819 Is the gravis a different species or is it like a rank? 658 00:29:08.880 --> 00:29:10.559 Like, do you get promoted to gravis? 659 00:29:10.619 --> 00:29:13.019 It's like Queen Admiral and all soldier ants. 660 00:29:13.079 --> 00:29:16.200 He's the only one with an intelligence and then the rest of it's 661 00:29:16.200 --> 00:29:17.039 the gestalt. 662 00:29:17.099 --> 00:29:20.519 They call it an society's 4th level intelligences, and we still 663 00:29:20.519 --> 00:29:24.240 don't understand quite how something with such a simple autonomic 664 00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:27.000 nervous system can actually behave, like in a collective 665 00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:29.220 intelligence in such very complex ways. 666 00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:30.420 Lots of good stuff in this. 667 00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:32.700 And the zerbie was based on the same thing, as you know, Bill 668 00:29:32.700 --> 00:29:36.000 Strutton sitting and watching his tiny farm of Christopher H. 669 00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:40.319 Bidmeads in Adelaide. that he kept all running about being told 670 00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:41.579 off by Lala Wards. 671 00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:43.740 It's the TARDIS. 672 00:29:43.859 --> 00:29:45.119 Chris. 673 00:29:45.180 --> 00:29:46.500 What's that? 674 00:29:46.559 --> 00:29:49.079 Is that pure science or is that magic? 675 00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:52.140 You can hear her doing it, can't you, in her missy hat and the 676 00:29:52.140 --> 00:29:52.559 umbrella? 677 00:29:52.619 --> 00:29:55.079 10 years before this, there was a great film. 678 00:29:55.140 --> 00:29:59.279 Thank you for reminding me, Richard, called Phase 4, which is 679 00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:03.480 about extremely intelligent ants, not giant ants, regular size 680 00:30:03.480 --> 00:30:06.180 ants, and these scientists investigating them. 681 00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:08.880 I won't say much more about it at this stage. 682 00:30:08.940 --> 00:30:12.599 Dear listeners, I do suggest tracking it down, because recently 683 00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:17.400 they've released it with its original ending, because the studio 684 00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:22.200 truncated the ending, because it's a 70s sci-fi film, the ending 685 00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:26.700 is not necessarily narrative, I will just say, but it's an 686 00:30:26.700 --> 00:30:31.019 excellent film, and it kind of this story explores a little bit 687 00:30:31.019 --> 00:30:34.319 the different thought processes from humanoid and insectoid life. 688 00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:37.200 Phase 4 goes even further with that. 689 00:30:37.259 --> 00:30:41.759 And it would not surprise me at all if, if Christopher Hamilton 690 00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:43.380 Fibbean had seen phase four. 691 00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:44.279 It seems like the kind of thing. 692 00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:47.880 Or indeed, that John Collins Empire of the Ants, or whatever it 693 00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:50.519 was called when similar thing when she played the Lala Ward 694 00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:51.599 character in Pearl. 695 00:30:51.660 --> 00:30:52.920 I'm just making this up as I go along. 696 00:30:52.980 --> 00:30:56.099 Well, she is actually in an ant film. 697 00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:57.839 No, no, it's in Lucky Pictures, remember? 698 00:30:57.900 --> 00:30:59.279 That's right. 699 00:30:59.339 --> 00:31:01.680 Or William Shatner's Kingdom of the Spiders. 700 00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:07.200 Yeah, where he played Jenny Lick. that's right So I want to talk 701 00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:10.799 about another thing because Christopher Hamilton bit me. is 702 00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:12.420 obsessed with Shakespeare. 703 00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:13.079 Yes. 704 00:31:13.140 --> 00:31:15.119 Yeah, there's a lot of Shakespeare. 705 00:31:15.180 --> 00:31:16.680 Just think he likes good stories. 706 00:31:16.740 --> 00:31:18.240 Well, he went to Rada, you know. 707 00:31:18.299 --> 00:31:21.960 We're going to really psych up to him and ask that he listens to 708 00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:22.079 this. 709 00:31:22.140 --> 00:31:24.059 There's a stack of Shakespeare. 710 00:31:24.059 --> 00:31:26.700 There always is, yes, Shakespeare in season 18. 711 00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:29.759 And then here he's got a character called Plantagenet. 712 00:31:29.819 --> 00:31:33.240 And there's a huge plot. 713 00:31:33.299 --> 00:31:36.059 Yes, and nothing went wrong with those Henrys. 714 00:31:37.259 --> 00:31:42.480 But it's the idea of the importance of the king to the health of a 715 00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:46.079 society. and also about fitness to be king. 716 00:31:46.140 --> 00:31:49.319 And so he's got these sort of really obviously named characters 717 00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:52.619 like revere, brazen. 718 00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:56.279 Revere, whom everyone reveres, you know, like he's a father figure 719 00:31:56.279 --> 00:31:57.779 to the entire colony. 720 00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:01.559 Like Norna tells in that beautifully acted moment. 721 00:32:01.619 --> 00:32:05.279 Norna tells that story about sitting on his lap and being told 722 00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:07.559 that the earth is hungry. 723 00:32:07.799 --> 00:32:10.799 You know, all he has to do is demand that the research room is 724 00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:13.319 sealed and it's sealed even after he's died. 725 00:32:13.380 --> 00:32:17.039 You know, in some ways he's kind of the perfect leader. 726 00:32:17.099 --> 00:32:20.700 And then you've got Jeff Rawl, who'll go on to play the Mona 727 00:32:20.700 --> 00:32:25.920 Lisa's gay sidekick in the Sarah Jane Adventures, who's physically 728 00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:27.480 small and... 729 00:32:27.539 --> 00:32:29.700 Yeah, he did other things as well on television. 730 00:32:29.819 --> 00:32:30.299 No, I know. 731 00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:31.740 But do you know what I mean? 732 00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:33.299 skinny and young looking. 733 00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:34.740 Yeah, he's great in this. 734 00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:37.319 And he's trying to be Shakespearean. 735 00:32:37.380 --> 00:32:39.299 He's trying to be a Shakespearean king. 736 00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:42.720 He even does that thing where, you know, he's injured by the 737 00:32:42.720 --> 00:32:47.339 bombardment and he tries not to show it for a long period of 738 00:32:47.339 --> 00:32:47.640 time. 739 00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:50.940 And that idiot in worries even deep had done something sort of 740 00:32:50.940 --> 00:32:53.039 fairly similar, but here it's done really well. 741 00:32:53.039 --> 00:32:58.019 And it is all about what makes someone fit to be a leader. 742 00:32:58.079 --> 00:33:01.680 And it's a shame that, you know, kind of the overall conclusion is 743 00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:04.559 sort of conservative because all of the people who kind of leave 744 00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:06.420 the colony and become retrogrades. 745 00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:09.960 They're bad people and they kind of virtually lose their humanity 746 00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:13.019 you know, including the one who looks like he's from the village 747 00:33:13.019 --> 00:33:13.200 people. 748 00:33:13.259 --> 00:33:15.539 Yeah, the one with the moustache, the Scottish guy. 749 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:18.480 Yeah, yeah, yeah. he's amazing That's a part of the story that 750 00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:21.839 doesn't quite work because you've got cockerel, the chief orderly 751 00:33:21.839 --> 00:33:24.779 who's Brazen's right hand man and then betrays him when 752 00:33:24.779 --> 00:33:28.440 Plantagenet goes missing and starts to lead a revolt. 753 00:33:28.500 --> 00:33:32.220 But then all it needs is for Norna to walk in and say, oh 754 00:33:32.220 --> 00:33:34.200 Plantagenet might still be alive, you know. 755 00:33:34.319 --> 00:33:35.400 And that's it. 756 00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:36.180 No, they stop. 757 00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:38.099 It's like, oh, okay, we better stop. 758 00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:39.480 But it is chaos. 759 00:33:39.480 --> 00:33:43.740 And you know the idea as well, that Shakespearean idea where Nate 760 00:33:43.740 --> 00:33:47.339 is disrupted when the, you know, pathetic fantasy, I believe 761 00:33:47.339 --> 00:33:47.759 it's. 762 00:33:47.819 --> 00:33:48.539 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 763 00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:51.720 So, you know, got Duncan's horses eating each other and the sheet 764 00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:54.480 are dead, shrieking and gibbering in the Roman streets. 765 00:33:55.200 --> 00:33:57.000 Brussels sprouts begin to taste delicious. 766 00:33:57.059 --> 00:33:59.400 Cats and dogs living together. 767 00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:03.900 Corey Bernardi becoming a senator in South Australia. 768 00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:05.099 Yeah, yeah, again. 769 00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:07.380 That trick never works. 770 00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:10.079 I also think the other thing. 771 00:34:10.139 --> 00:34:12.840 Can I just say one other thing, which I think is amazingly good 772 00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:16.260 and lifts this, you know, above kind of the general quality of the 773 00:34:16.260 --> 00:34:19.980 material, is the reveal halfway through that the threat comes from 774 00:34:19.980 --> 00:34:23.219 below the ground and not from the sky? 775 00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:24.719 That's gorgeous. 776 00:34:24.780 --> 00:34:25.380 Yeah, clever. 777 00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:30.239 And really gets to base guttural primal fears. 778 00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:34.139 Stephen Moffatt does it very nicely as well, but Bidme did it 779 00:34:34.139 --> 00:34:34.380 first. 780 00:34:34.440 --> 00:34:35.400 Yes, yes. 781 00:34:35.460 --> 00:34:40.019 One person we briefly mentioned, but plays a very large role in 782 00:34:40.019 --> 00:34:45.719 the story is Mark Strickson, who sort of has that meltdown at the 783 00:34:45.719 --> 00:34:46.500 end of the story. 784 00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:47.280 Yes he does. 785 00:34:47.340 --> 00:34:50.880 And I find that so effective, and I find it particularly effective 786 00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:53.400 because he's been uneasy, uneasy, uneasy, and then we don't see 787 00:34:53.400 --> 00:34:55.440 him for a while, and then he runs in screaming. 788 00:34:55.500 --> 00:34:58.320 I think it's so good that we don't see the moment he breaks 789 00:34:58.320 --> 00:35:03.059 because I think for an actor, that would be the toughest moment to 790 00:35:03.059 --> 00:35:07.980 portray convincingly, but going straight to the point of breakdown 791 00:35:07.980 --> 00:35:11.039 and then slowly coming out of that. 792 00:35:11.099 --> 00:35:14.280 And it's not like in the next scene he's fine and he's lucid. 793 00:35:14.340 --> 00:35:17.519 It takes him time and he has to be coaxed out of it, as would 794 00:35:17.519 --> 00:35:18.420 happen in real life. 795 00:35:18.539 --> 00:35:21.900 It's obviously still compressed from what would probably happen in 796 00:35:21.900 --> 00:35:22.440 real life. 797 00:35:22.500 --> 00:35:25.920 But Mark plays it so well. 798 00:35:25.980 --> 00:35:29.099 And, you know, in that scene where he's with William Lucas as Mr 799 00:35:29.099 --> 00:35:32.699 Range and Norna's gone missing, he's just staring off and drooling 800 00:35:32.699 --> 00:35:35.219 and there's no one there behind the eyes. 801 00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:38.639 He's completely retreated in on himself. is gingers. 802 00:35:38.699 --> 00:35:39.840 Did you? 803 00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:41.039 We haven't mentioned that before. 804 00:35:41.099 --> 00:35:43.320 We may have much. 805 00:35:43.380 --> 00:35:44.880 No souls, you see. 806 00:35:44.940 --> 00:35:48.420 We had Mark Strickson living here in New South Wales. 807 00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:52.559 He was at UND at the University of New England and Armadale. 808 00:35:52.619 --> 00:35:57.599 And he used to come to conventions and we used to have plays. 809 00:35:57.659 --> 00:35:59.639 We used to write plays and act in them. 810 00:35:59.699 --> 00:36:01.920 I was very famous myself. 811 00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:03.360 Yeah, actually, at one point. 812 00:36:03.420 --> 00:36:05.280 But Mark Strickson was in one of them. 813 00:36:05.340 --> 00:36:06.239 Do you remember this, Richard? 814 00:36:06.300 --> 00:36:07.619 Yes, he played Travis, didn't he? 815 00:36:07.980 --> 00:36:13.320 He actually did his line, attractators, I've seen them line. 816 00:36:13.380 --> 00:36:18.360 But he did it like with a beer, a can of beer in one hand, and he 817 00:36:18.360 --> 00:36:22.139 took a giant swig of beer and then said track taker that I've seen 818 00:36:22.139 --> 00:36:24.840 them and he was going all over the place. 819 00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:27.599 He was spinning it over everyone. that's exactly how you recorded 820 00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:28.320 the original. 821 00:36:29.880 --> 00:36:32.219 He gets to redeem himself. 822 00:36:32.280 --> 00:36:36.059 Like he gets to lose it and have some kind of, you know, as of his 823 00:36:36.059 --> 00:36:38.460 stick, ancestral memory crisis thing. 824 00:36:38.519 --> 00:36:39.840 But then he gets to be brave. 825 00:36:39.900 --> 00:36:41.760 He goes back down in the Yeah, yeah. 826 00:36:41.820 --> 00:36:42.539 Comodores. 827 00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:46.800 It's like the chemistry between Mark Strickson and Leslie Donlop 828 00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:51.059 is lovely and it's it's very rare in the 80s that we get a hint of 829 00:36:51.059 --> 00:36:52.380 romance between characters. 830 00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:54.480 We had it between Tegan and Mariner, but that was a bit 831 00:36:54.480 --> 00:36:57.659 uncomfortable because of the controlling shit. 832 00:36:57.719 --> 00:36:58.619 Exactly. 833 00:36:58.679 --> 00:37:00.900 It was really... 834 00:37:00.900 --> 00:37:03.000 And him being so incredibly kind of... 835 00:37:03.119 --> 00:37:04.079 Oh, I meant her baby. 836 00:37:05.760 --> 00:37:10.679 But here we have a relationship between equals where they tease 837 00:37:10.679 --> 00:37:14.340 each other a bit and they're obviously fond of each other. do each 838 00:37:14.340 --> 00:37:15.599 other's own makeup. right. 839 00:37:15.659 --> 00:37:16.559 Tell stories. 840 00:37:16.860 --> 00:37:20.099 But they're beautiful in each other's jumpsuits. 841 00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:21.719 Oh, sorry, I'm back on worries if I do. 842 00:37:21.780 --> 00:37:24.960 Well, back in Worries of Deep, I was talking about how Turlo wants 843 00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:26.460 to impress the doctor. 844 00:37:26.519 --> 00:37:29.579 What is something Davison always does when he's deciding where to 845 00:37:29.579 --> 00:37:29.760 go? 846 00:37:29.820 --> 00:37:30.659 He flips a coin. 847 00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:32.159 How does Turlow decide what to do? 848 00:37:32.340 --> 00:37:34.260 He uses... 849 00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:35.880 He uses coins. 850 00:37:35.940 --> 00:37:38.340 He puts a coin behind his back and she has to pick. 851 00:37:38.460 --> 00:37:41.820 But it turns out because this is Turlow, he's actually put a coin 852 00:37:41.820 --> 00:37:42.599 in both hands. 853 00:37:42.659 --> 00:37:46.320 So he'll always go down, but he's kind of trying to impress her 854 00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:46.679 anyway. 855 00:37:46.739 --> 00:37:50.760 Even that 2 Corpira piece dialogue where you blow through it for 856 00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:51.059 luck. 857 00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:53.760 Like, that doesn't need to be there or anything. 858 00:37:53.820 --> 00:37:54.900 It's just a bit of detail. 859 00:37:54.960 --> 00:37:56.280 Yeah, which is just good. 860 00:37:56.340 --> 00:37:58.920 It's a bit, yeah, considering they had so little time. 861 00:37:58.980 --> 00:38:00.599 They've done very well on this one. 862 00:38:00.659 --> 00:38:04.860 I remember strictly complaining about the lack of rehearsal time 863 00:38:04.860 --> 00:38:06.960 and just how raw and how awful. 864 00:38:07.019 --> 00:38:10.380 There's that scene back in Warriors of the Deep, dear listener 865 00:38:10.380 --> 00:38:14.940 when Tara Ward and Janet were mucking around, believing it was a 866 00:38:14.940 --> 00:38:18.000 rehearsal, and they were actually taking the piss out of it, and 867 00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:20.699 then they were told, no, that's in the can. what we're going 868 00:38:20.699 --> 00:38:20.880 with. 869 00:38:21.000 --> 00:38:22.079 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 870 00:38:22.139 --> 00:38:23.400 And they were horrified. 871 00:38:23.460 --> 00:38:26.820 Well, Mark says the same thing, and he said on this one, he said, I 872 00:38:26.820 --> 00:38:29.699 remember him talking about how embarrassed he was by the hyperbole 873 00:38:29.699 --> 00:38:30.300 of his performance. 874 00:38:30.420 --> 00:38:31.019 I think it's fine. 875 00:38:31.079 --> 00:38:34.920 But again, he also said this 15 years ago or whatever, he may have 876 00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:35.639 a different view now. 877 00:38:35.699 --> 00:38:39.960 Yeah, I think it's the scene where Norna and Range are escorting 878 00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:42.960 Turlow back and he stops and gives a bit of an info dump. 879 00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:45.719 And I seem to recall what the story was. 880 00:38:45.780 --> 00:38:48.480 It was the last scene before the lights went out at 10 and the 881 00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:51.539 word came down that, okay, we need to get this done in 45 882 00:38:51.539 --> 00:38:51.960 seconds. 883 00:38:52.019 --> 00:38:54.780 And Mark said, it's a 92nd speech. 884 00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:57.239 Oh, darling, just edit it as you go. 885 00:38:57.300 --> 00:38:58.980 So that's the thing. 886 00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:01.980 He's having to give his performance, get all the information in 887 00:39:01.980 --> 00:39:03.780 there, but also cut out half the content. 888 00:39:03.840 --> 00:39:06.420 He does an amazing job. 889 00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:09.960 That is not to say that Peter, like Peter's doing an amazing job 890 00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:10.320 here. 891 00:39:10.380 --> 00:39:13.980 Janet and Brazen actually have a really good chemistry. 892 00:39:14.039 --> 00:39:16.199 You know, they start antagonistic. 893 00:39:16.260 --> 00:39:18.659 They get friendly, antagonistic friendly, and it keeps going back 894 00:39:18.659 --> 00:39:19.199 and forth. 895 00:39:19.260 --> 00:39:22.079 And even that scene with the inquiry where you've got this 896 00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:25.679 character who's just brought in for one scene, like, I think she's 897 00:39:25.679 --> 00:39:29.340 a chief petty officer or something, and she just plays it, sort of 898 00:39:29.340 --> 00:39:33.659 straight down the line, very believable, and she only gets a few 899 00:39:33.659 --> 00:39:37.500 reactions and a few lines, but suddenly this world is opened up 900 00:39:37.500 --> 00:39:38.820 because this person exists. 901 00:39:38.940 --> 00:39:42.840 I think she's straight from episode one of Blake 7 actually. 902 00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:46.079 Yeah, she's a bit like that. 903 00:39:46.199 --> 00:39:47.519 She's good. really good. 904 00:39:47.579 --> 00:39:49.199 I love the uniforms. 905 00:39:49.260 --> 00:39:51.239 They're so much more convincing than Warriors of the Deep. 906 00:39:51.300 --> 00:39:53.880 I mean, it's still a terrific 80s cast to them. 907 00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:55.500 Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 908 00:39:55.559 --> 00:39:57.780 I would cosplay in one of those. 909 00:39:57.840 --> 00:39:59.820 I wouldn't cosplay in one of the worries of the deep one. 910 00:39:59.940 --> 00:40:01.199 People are pointing staying. 911 00:40:01.260 --> 00:40:02.039 Why are you wearing that? 912 00:40:02.099 --> 00:40:03.780 Well, if I wore it in the street, I'd get comments. 913 00:40:03.900 --> 00:40:07.440 But I mean, you'd end up like a self-sourcing pudding at the end 914 00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:08.219 of it, wouldn't you? 915 00:40:08.280 --> 00:40:10.920 There's no natural fibres anywhere. 916 00:40:11.699 --> 00:40:16.679 It'd be like your own personal steam room that you carried around 917 00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:21.539 with, which I'm reminded as what Davison said when you know, what 918 00:40:21.539 --> 00:40:23.099 why did Johnny do 3 years? 919 00:40:23.099 --> 00:40:27.659 And you didn't actually say, well, terminus, but, you know, other 920 00:40:27.659 --> 00:40:31.320 fans have said we could have had him for 5 if they'd just got some 921 00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:32.760 of the key things right. 922 00:40:32.820 --> 00:40:34.800 And one of them was rehearsal and film time. 923 00:40:34.860 --> 00:40:40.139 Even one extra day per story is only 7 days on the schedule for 924 00:40:40.139 --> 00:40:42.900 the BBC, 5 days and 2 days. 925 00:40:42.960 --> 00:40:45.480 That would have made an enormous difference to this entire 926 00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:45.960 season. 927 00:40:46.019 --> 00:40:48.960 Probably kept the regular cast happy and kept everything tighter. 928 00:40:49.019 --> 00:40:52.920 As much as I love Colin, imagine a season with Peter and Nicola. 929 00:40:52.980 --> 00:40:55.920 That was actually my big fanboy dream. 930 00:40:55.980 --> 00:41:01.260 And when the big finish started bringing out Red Dawn, I think was 931 00:41:01.260 --> 00:41:04.860 which is the story of Dawn French as the leader of the Ice 932 00:41:04.860 --> 00:41:06.300 Warriors with Nicola. 933 00:41:06.360 --> 00:41:07.980 And it's a lovely story. 934 00:41:07.980 --> 00:41:10.139 And then they bring in... 935 00:41:10.139 --> 00:41:12.480 And the Church and the Crown is a lovely... 936 00:41:12.539 --> 00:41:14.880 Yeah, the Peter and Nicholas stories are terrific. 937 00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:17.400 But we're getting ahead of ourselves. 938 00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:21.239 I find it very hard to fault this story. 939 00:41:21.300 --> 00:41:23.639 There's the fact that cockerel kind of disappears halfway 940 00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:24.239 through. 941 00:41:24.599 --> 00:41:28.440 There is the fact that the earth borrowing machine. is not quite 942 00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:30.599 horrific enough. 943 00:41:30.659 --> 00:41:34.320 You kind of get the impression that he's just a torso, but that 944 00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:36.599 doesn't really become clear until Brazen's in there. 945 00:41:36.659 --> 00:41:40.139 So it's like when the threat is actually carried out, is when you 946 00:41:40.139 --> 00:41:43.619 realise what the threat is and you need a bit of buildup to that. 947 00:41:43.619 --> 00:41:45.659 But those are very minor niggles. 948 00:41:45.719 --> 00:41:50.099 We have Ron Jones knocking out of the park in terms of direction 949 00:41:50.099 --> 00:41:51.840 especially compared with what he's delivered before. 950 00:41:51.900 --> 00:41:56.159 And since. and since Paddy Kingsland being amazing. 951 00:41:56.219 --> 00:41:59.400 Set design by David Buckingham looks excellent. 952 00:41:59.460 --> 00:42:03.179 There is not a poor performance in the show, even the village 953 00:42:03.179 --> 00:42:04.500 person retrograde. 954 00:42:04.559 --> 00:42:06.840 He's not part of the officer class. 955 00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:07.980 He is not the Shakespearean. 956 00:42:08.039 --> 00:42:10.380 He's the porter at the door in Macbeth, you know. 957 00:42:10.619 --> 00:42:13.800 Excellent script from Christopher H been made. 958 00:42:13.860 --> 00:42:16.739 Brilliant performances from the regulars. 959 00:42:17.400 --> 00:42:23.519 This is the finest story this season and 2nd finest Davidson story 960 00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:25.980 next to Enlightenment for me anyway. 961 00:42:26.039 --> 00:42:29.219 And I'm so glad the randomiser gave me this one because... 962 00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:29.579 Yes. 963 00:42:29.579 --> 00:42:30.059 Yeah. 964 00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:34.739 I did not watch this story between when I 1st watched it when I 965 00:42:34.739 --> 00:42:37.800 was 5 and was terrified by it and when it came out on DVD. 966 00:42:37.860 --> 00:42:41.519 And then when I watched it on DVD, I just thought, I can see why 967 00:42:41.519 --> 00:42:45.480 I'm scared by this, but this, it's really excellent. 968 00:42:45.539 --> 00:42:49.559 As a boy, the visuals let it down for me at also the frustration 969 00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:52.500 that the TARDIS was so easily destroyed because when you're 14 970 00:42:52.500 --> 00:42:52.739 15. 971 00:42:52.980 --> 00:42:56.400 But it's not technically accurate to the rest of the narrative of 972 00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:56.820 the show. 973 00:42:56.880 --> 00:42:59.760 So, of course, you know, now, yeah, I'm with you. 974 00:42:59.820 --> 00:43:05.039 Well, things will be back to normal next week. obviously, when we 975 00:43:05.039 --> 00:43:06.719 have a story to really rip into. 976 00:43:07.139 --> 00:43:11.219 But I think that this is probably the high point of the season. 977 00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:11.760 Yes, thank you. 978 00:43:11.820 --> 00:43:13.320 Thank you, Christopher Hamilton Bidmead. 979 00:43:13.380 --> 00:43:13.619 Thank you. 980 00:43:13.679 --> 00:43:14.099 Yes. 981 00:43:36.360 --> 00:43:40.980 We're trapped in a time tunnel as we take off from Frontier, so do 982 00:43:40.980 --> 00:43:43.679 come back next week for resurrection of the Daleks. 983 00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:46.920 Until then, you can find us online at FlightthroughEntirety.com 984 00:43:46.920 --> 00:43:50.039 flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and at FTE podcast 985 00:43:50.039 --> 00:43:50.820 on Twitter. 986 00:43:50.880 --> 00:43:54.659 Over on Bondfinger, we've recently completed the Roger Moore era 987 00:43:54.659 --> 00:43:57.119 so make sure you catch up on those before we move on to the 988 00:43:57.119 --> 00:43:58.980 Timothy Dalton in the new year. 989 00:43:59.039 --> 00:44:00.719 You lose your will to live. 990 00:44:01.500 --> 00:44:05.940 You can find that at bondfinger.com, bondfinger on Facebook and 991 00:44:05.940 --> 00:44:07.739 iTunes and bondfinger cast on Twitter. 992 00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:08.639 Spoiler alert. 993 00:44:08.699 --> 00:44:10.320 Dalton is my favourite bond. 994 00:44:10.739 --> 00:44:12.840 Until next week. 995 00:44:12.900 --> 00:44:16.139 May none of your wood lice bring down meteors on your home. 996 00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:17.639 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 997 00:44:17.699 --> 00:44:18.360 Good night. 998 00:44:18.480 --> 00:44:19.739 Woody Allen's mine. 999 00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:20.159 Good night. 1000 00:44:21.420 --> 00:44:25.440 That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottley, Brendan 1001 00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:26.400 Jones, and Richard Stone. 1002 00:44:26.460 --> 00:44:28.860 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 1003 00:44:28.920 --> 00:44:32.880 This episode, not allowed to watch that one, was recorded on 19th 1004 00:44:32.880 --> 00:44:33.900 of November 2016. 1005 00:44:34.079 --> 00:44:37.199 The next episode will be released on the 11th of December. 1006 00:44:38.460 --> 00:44:43.440 Are you suffering from an infestation of vile parasitic fibreglass 1007 00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:45.239 insects with the power to control gravity? 1008 00:44:45.300 --> 00:44:46.800 Uh, I know I am. 1009 00:44:46.860 --> 00:44:49.500 We really should be ashamed of ourselves. 1010 00:44:50.460 --> 00:44:52.019 Okay. 1011 00:44:52.019 --> 00:44:54.360 Oh, okay. 1012 00:44:54.420 --> 00:45:00.059 Frank, uh, Frank, uh, Frank Frontbottom. 1013 00:45:00.119 --> 00:45:02.400 Do we have to say that 3 times? 1014 00:45:02.460 --> 00:45:04.559 19th November. 1015 00:45:06.780 --> 00:45:09.659 Or just Fronty to his mates. 1016 00:45:09.900 --> 00:45:12.119 Who is Frank Frontbottom? 1017 00:45:12.179 --> 00:45:13.019 Oh, Frontios. 1018 00:45:13.079 --> 00:45:14.639 Yes, Frank's sidebottom. 1019 00:45:14.699 --> 00:45:15.420 Frank front bottom. 1020 00:45:15.480 --> 00:45:16.559 I'm glad this one's not mine. 1021 00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:19.079 No, this is my nurse. 1022 00:45:19.139 --> 00:45:19.860 I can't stop it. 1023 00:45:20.760 --> 00:45:22.619 Okey-dokey. 1024 00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:24.780 Wait for the plane. 1025 00:45:26.699 --> 00:45:28.980 Can I rattle my Lego? 1026 00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:29.400 No. 1027 00:45:29.699 --> 00:45:31.440 That one thing. 1028 00:45:34.860 --> 00:45:36.599 You need us? 1029 00:45:39.119 --> 00:45:44.699 To be fair, like living living by myself for a month, I was like, I 1030 00:45:44.699 --> 00:45:47.460 was like, should I go get a magnum? 1031 00:45:47.519 --> 00:45:48.059 No, yes. 1032 00:45:48.119 --> 00:45:49.079 Oh okay. 1033 00:45:52.139 --> 00:45:54.659 You're Tom in episode one of The Deadly Assassin. 1034 00:45:54.719 --> 00:45:57.360 Or was Planet of the Spiders. 1035 00:45:57.420 --> 00:45:58.920 I even had a hooker. 1036 00:46:01.980 --> 00:46:02.940 Here we go. 1037 00:46:02.940 --> 00:46:03.840 Here we go. 1038 00:46:03.900 --> 00:46:05.039 Don't touch me like that. 1039 00:46:08.099 --> 00:46:09.119 And if you have to.