WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:49:43 1 00:00:31.559 --> 00:00:39.539 Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast whose bile has been weaponized. 2 00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:40.200 I'm Brendan. 3 00:00:40.259 --> 00:00:41.100 I'm Nathan. 4 00:00:41.159 --> 00:00:46.259 I'm a pop out turkey baster with a prick on the end out of a wheelchair for this episode. 5 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:49.560 Why was that not in destiny of the dialects? 6 00:00:49.619 --> 00:00:51.060 He could have done Tom instantly. 7 00:00:51.179 --> 00:00:52.439 So to speak. 8 00:00:52.500 --> 00:00:54.179 Are we still doing phrasing? 9 00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:54.899 Yes, sir. 10 00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:57.539 Eric Saywood is back in the writing chair? 11 00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:01.859 Arguably for the 1st time in 2 years with resurrection of the Daleks. 12 00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:02.399 Yay. 13 00:01:11.459 --> 00:01:15.120 We have mentioned the history of this before, but I'll just recap. 14 00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:24.599 This story was meant to close out season 20, but due to industrial action and problems with terminus and the king's demons. 15 00:01:24.659 --> 00:01:30.480 The whole story was shelved, led to Peter Grimwade, never directing for the program again because he annoyed John Nathan Turner. 16 00:01:30.540 --> 00:01:39.900 Dogs and cats living together, and instead we get it in season 21 with changes made that Eric Sable was very happy with. 17 00:01:39.959 --> 00:01:42.659 He wasn't actually that happy with his original version of the script. 18 00:01:42.719 --> 00:01:44.280 So what's different? 19 00:01:44.340 --> 00:01:56.400 First of all, director, instead of Peter Grimwade, who, as I mentioned, I know John Nathan Turner, and thus was not rehired, we have Matthew Robinson directing the 1st of his 2 Doctor Who stories. 20 00:01:56.459 --> 00:02:00.299 Also, we have a new Davros spoiler alert. 21 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:01.319 Davros is back in this. 22 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:08.460 Yes, Michael Wisher wanted to do it, but he was busy smoking in a paper bag somewhere, so he couldn't. had work. 23 00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:11.159 Yes, yes, he had theatrical work. 24 00:02:11.219 --> 00:02:16.680 He had been contracted for the original amount of the return. thought it was called Warhead. 25 00:02:16.740 --> 00:02:22.379 Warhead was another working title for it, but unfortunately, as Richard says, he wasn't available for these days. 26 00:02:22.439 --> 00:02:28.620 So Matthew Robinson chose Terry Malloy, who was famous for his voice work and still performs in The Archers. 27 00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:35.219 And in cabaret and on most bar tops, give me all the jeans. 28 00:02:35.340 --> 00:02:45.780 I think Robinson also, is he also the writer rest of um, edge of legal destruction and and impermanent oligarchies within the TARDIS. 29 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:47.159 That's Nigel Robinson. 30 00:02:47.219 --> 00:02:48.060 That's Nigel Robinson. 31 00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:54.120 So that's his live in flatmate and no other, and the fact that the beds get pulled apart when the parents come and visit has nothing to do with anything. 32 00:02:54.180 --> 00:02:54.900 Right. 33 00:02:54.900 --> 00:02:55.379 Right. 34 00:02:55.439 --> 00:02:57.419 Gee, I'm informed. 35 00:02:57.780 --> 00:03:02.759 As an aside, with Nigel Robinson's novelisations, because recently... 36 00:03:02.819 --> 00:03:04.080 Well, they are good. 37 00:03:04.139 --> 00:03:09.120 When I was overseas, I recently reread the 1st season of Heart Novelisations. 38 00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:12.599 I think those 2 of them, and I've also read Underwater Menace, which he does. 39 00:03:12.659 --> 00:03:19.740 I haven't read Planet of Giants, but it seems like in every single one, there's a slight misogynist undercurrent. 40 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:22.620 I quoted ages ago in the underwater I remember. 41 00:03:22.620 --> 00:03:25.500 There's a bit where Polly is screaming hysterically. 42 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:27.719 So Jamie slapped her. 43 00:03:27.780 --> 00:03:28.800 That shut her up. 44 00:03:28.860 --> 00:03:31.680 Yes, that one being televised. 45 00:03:31.740 --> 00:03:42.900 There is a lot of rapey inferences we've discussed, the rapey effect on Barbara and the problem with Susan in the 1st and 2nd seasons, but but yes, it's not exactly to the point of bidding. 46 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:44.580 Billy backslaps any of them, does he? 47 00:03:44.699 --> 00:03:45.479 No, that's right. 48 00:03:45.539 --> 00:03:48.599 Well, he nearly gives Susan a jolly good smacked awesome. 49 00:03:48.659 --> 00:03:51.539 And tries to hit Greg Newark with a rock. 50 00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:53.580 But we're getting... much nicer. 51 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:55.199 Yes, he'll just lock you out or kill you. 52 00:03:55.379 --> 00:03:58.259 Yes, we're getting behind ourselves. 53 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:02.400 So, yeah, the Daleks are back for the 1st time since 1979. 54 00:04:02.580 --> 00:04:05.039 So it's been it's been 5 years almost. 55 00:04:05.099 --> 00:04:07.080 About 4.5 five. 56 00:04:07.139 --> 00:04:09.900 They have been making other television appearances in the meantime. 57 00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:18.839 And they have been kept fresh in the public's mind because of, you know, things like the Doctor Who, non-Christmas, Christmas special, the 5 doctors and it. 58 00:04:18.899 --> 00:04:22.139 And also, um, Spike Milligan's Q series. 59 00:04:22.199 --> 00:04:27.300 It was the only time Dykes were ever allowed to be in a comedy sketch or lampooners because it was by Saint. 60 00:04:27.300 --> 00:04:29.339 Spike Milligan. 61 00:04:29.399 --> 00:04:31.379 Has anyone seen Pakistani Daleks? 62 00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:36.720 It's probably not broadcasting now because it's effing racist, and I'm sorry there is no other way to describe it. 63 00:04:36.779 --> 00:04:47.220 I believe, though, that network DVD is bringing out the entire existing queue series because, of course, some of the early ones don't exist anymore because British television. 64 00:04:47.759 --> 00:04:51.300 But yeah, so you will soon be able to buy that. 65 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:56.699 And there are snippets of the Pakistani Dalek sketch in the documentary more than 30 years in the Tartars. 66 00:04:56.759 --> 00:05:00.540 Yeah, we won't quote any of it here because it is quite horribly racist. 67 00:05:00.600 --> 00:05:01.620 It is quite horribly racist. 68 00:05:01.620 --> 00:05:04.079 And it has a really, really bad animatronic dog. 69 00:05:04.740 --> 00:05:06.959 So I haven't mentioned. 70 00:05:07.079 --> 00:05:09.300 Janet's before. 71 00:05:10.019 --> 00:05:12.779 So Resurrection of the Daleks. 72 00:05:12.839 --> 00:05:14.100 I've been avoiding asking this question. 73 00:05:14.100 --> 00:05:15.839 We've got the legs right yet. 74 00:05:15.899 --> 00:05:16.860 We haven't got the walk right yet. 75 00:05:17.040 --> 00:05:19.319 I have been avoiding this question. 76 00:05:19.379 --> 00:05:20.279 Chaps, what do we think? 77 00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:27.779 I actually think at the moment, and my mind may change that this is the worst Doctor Who story. 78 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:33.060 And just to play, just you would call advocate. 79 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:38.399 This is the only one that's took me 2 solid months to get through because I found it almost unwatchable. 80 00:05:38.459 --> 00:05:39.779 I did actually find it unwatchable. 81 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:41.279 Having finished it however. 82 00:05:41.339 --> 00:05:50.579 The accepted fan opinion against Seward and the ultraviolence and all the rest of it, when we actually look at how the doctor behaves and how the companions behave. 83 00:05:50.639 --> 00:05:53.459 I think we'll find that there is actually a case for the defence. 84 00:05:53.519 --> 00:06:03.240 I think there is a case for the defence and I don't want to get too far ahead. the story does critique itself in towards the end, just in that very last scene. 85 00:06:03.300 --> 00:06:13.199 But essentially it's a tale of people in corridors with guns shooting other people with guns and it goes on quite a lot. 86 00:06:13.259 --> 00:06:15.360 It's horribly unimaginative. 87 00:06:15.420 --> 00:06:20.399 And I think it misuses and misconceives the Daleks in a really serious way as well. 88 00:06:20.459 --> 00:06:27.000 Both of those points can be counted with the thing that I'm always coming back with that it's Doctor Who is always about. 89 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:31.920 What's contemporary in media and what's contemporary. always about what's going on around it. 90 00:06:31.980 --> 00:06:35.699 So when you say it's horribly unimaginative. 91 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:38.639 Do you mean that it's just a borrowing from the other things that are going on at the time? 92 00:06:38.699 --> 00:06:41.339 Well, it's our second remake of Earthshock. 93 00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:42.000 Yes. 94 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:52.860 And the idea that, say it is fascinated with telling stories about mercenaries shooting people and he sidelines the doctor. 95 00:06:52.920 --> 00:07:18.060 And so rather than sort of imaginative tea time, whimsy or interesting juxtapositions of things or playing with genres or scaring the crap out of little children or having fun and being funny and witty, all of those things that Doctor Who can do, he just has a lot of gray, unlikeable people in corridors blurting out this appallingly matcho dialogue at each other. 96 00:07:18.120 --> 00:07:21.899 People whose names you can't even remember when you've reached the end of it. 97 00:07:21.959 --> 00:07:26.279 And people die constantly and do it in a really repulsive way. 98 00:07:26.339 --> 00:07:30.300 Like, you know, Todd spent all of season 20 complaining that no one was dying. 99 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:32.879 He actually texted us this morning. 100 00:07:32.939 --> 00:07:37.139 He's a really terrifying person when you get to know him, dear listeners. 101 00:07:37.199 --> 00:07:39.480 But here, lots and lots of people die. 102 00:07:39.540 --> 00:07:47.579 Their faces and hands melt off, you know, or they scream, like they shriek in terror and agony as they die. 103 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:57.420 The 2 women who are killed, uh, the the woman on the space station, the glamorous one with a cigar on the space station, and, uh, I want to say Chloe Ashcroft on earth. 104 00:07:57.480 --> 00:07:59.579 They scream in terror. 105 00:07:59.639 --> 00:08:14.339 It's just unpleasant and unenjoyable, and really the only way that Saywood knows of creating drama or anything is just to increase the guns and have more people killed. 106 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:16.560 It's, it's poor. 107 00:08:16.620 --> 00:08:17.399 I hate it. 108 00:08:17.459 --> 00:08:18.779 You know, I really hate it. 109 00:08:18.839 --> 00:08:31.680 I would have killed to have a pteroreptil in this or a mandrel, you know, or a medusoid or, you know, something fun, something whimsical, something that wasn't leaden and horrifying. 110 00:08:31.740 --> 00:08:33.720 Something from the keys of Mariners. 111 00:08:33.779 --> 00:08:34.259 Yeah. 112 00:08:34.259 --> 00:08:35.159 Yeah. 113 00:08:35.220 --> 00:08:55.440 See, I have to disagree on a lot of your points because I agree, in a way, this is a remake of Earthjock, but also it's a very different story because Earthjock, even though it was dressed up, was essentially a 60s based under siege story, the base being the bridge of the freighter, whereas this you've got multiple locations. 114 00:08:55.500 --> 00:09:05.580 We also avoid a problem we mentioned in worries of the deep a few weeks ago, where in Warriors are deep, you've got all these characters being killed, but as we said, we don't really care about any of them. 115 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:08.820 Like the only one we kind of care about is Maddox and maybe Karina in that. 116 00:09:08.879 --> 00:09:09.960 Whereas. 117 00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:28.440 The opening scenes on the space station, Are quite masterful because you've got Mercer and Dr. Styles played by the wonderful ruler Lenska, spouting dialogue off at each other, that fills in what this world is like, but also tells you what their characters are like. 118 00:09:28.500 --> 00:09:31.679 So he is very upright and duty bounded. 119 00:09:31.740 --> 00:09:33.120 This is the way we do things by the book. 120 00:09:33.179 --> 00:09:36.240 She obviously has been there for years. 121 00:09:36.299 --> 00:09:38.159 She knows how this place actually works. 122 00:09:38.220 --> 00:09:39.720 She knows how the real world works. 123 00:09:39.779 --> 00:09:42.840 She actually calls him our green eyed new boy, I think, at one point. 124 00:09:42.899 --> 00:09:47.820 It sets the scene in a way that Warriors of the Deep just doesn't. 125 00:09:47.879 --> 00:09:53.460 So when these characters do start dying and are killed horribly. 126 00:09:53.519 --> 00:09:59.100 It's, it's affecting the fabulous woman smoking a cigar you mentioned earlier. 127 00:09:59.159 --> 00:10:02.940 Osborne, played by the wonderful Snei Gupta. 128 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:10.980 She has, again, those wonderful character moments where she's teasing Mercer on the bridge because he's complained to the captain and suddenly he's on night shift. 129 00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:13.200 Oh, she's like, oh, someone should have warned you. 130 00:10:13.259 --> 00:10:15.240 You're fearing attack. 131 00:10:15.299 --> 00:10:16.080 I think she's really great. 132 00:10:16.139 --> 00:10:16.559 And then. 133 00:10:16.860 --> 00:10:23.159 She is killed at the end of the four-part version of episode one because this has weird broadcast issues. 134 00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:29.340 She is killed at the end of that episode and she goes down fighting and her death scream. 135 00:10:29.820 --> 00:10:32.580 It's not a pantomime theatrical scream. 136 00:10:32.700 --> 00:10:35.639 It's this, it's begging for a life in this shriek. 137 00:10:35.700 --> 00:10:37.379 And yes, it is uncomfortable. 138 00:10:37.379 --> 00:10:40.500 But it's not just uncomfortable. it's grotesque Brendan. 139 00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:44.879 So what's happened is she's with that guy, the terrible, terrible actor. 140 00:10:44.940 --> 00:10:46.440 Oh, Bridge. 141 00:10:47.220 --> 00:10:50.700 Who makes one of Doctor Who's few fart jokes before the new series. 142 00:10:50.820 --> 00:10:52.259 The smell. 143 00:10:52.320 --> 00:10:53.340 Yeah, what's that smell? 144 00:10:53.399 --> 00:10:54.419 Obviously, it's not the prisoner. 145 00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:56.940 So the Pakistani dialect. 146 00:10:57.120 --> 00:11:00.480 So his face and hands have melted off. 147 00:11:00.539 --> 00:11:02.399 He's horrified. 148 00:11:02.460 --> 00:11:09.360 She shoots him dead because that's the sort of macho thing that Eric Sey would enjoy putting on television. 149 00:11:09.419 --> 00:11:16.919 And then the sound of her shooting alerts the Dalek troopers who come in, she shoots one of them, and then they shoot her dead. 150 00:11:16.980 --> 00:11:18.600 I mean, that's horrible. 151 00:11:18.659 --> 00:11:22.679 It is horrible, but this is the reality of a Dalek attack. 152 00:11:22.740 --> 00:11:27.179 It's not all like destiny of the Daleks where people just lower themselves gently to the ground without a sound. 153 00:11:27.240 --> 00:11:29.639 When has the Dalek attack been portrayed like that? 154 00:11:29.700 --> 00:11:37.559 We went and saw Power of the Daleks, and Power of the Daleks has a big culmination in which the Daleks go through the base killing a bunch of people. 155 00:11:37.620 --> 00:11:40.019 And we do see dead bodies and all of that sort of thing. 156 00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:46.620 But what we don't get is this just sort of relishing the gratuitous violence and suffering and stuff that we get here. 157 00:11:46.740 --> 00:11:50.519 I think you've hit it on the head and it's all about the timing. 158 00:11:50.580 --> 00:11:52.080 Everything's about timing. 159 00:11:52.139 --> 00:11:56.519 Doctor Who and the exciting adventure in the power room of the Daleks was 66. 160 00:11:56.759 --> 00:11:58.799 We are now in 80 what three? 161 00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:23.759 Um, There's, the audiences have changed and the expectations, pretty much because of newsreel footage, pretty much because of popular press and what we saw with Vietnam, and then what we saw in Cambodia, also the way that we see violence enacted on television, policemen, for example, shooting people in 1971 in terror of the autons or in, and of the other early pertly things, that got questions in parliament. 162 00:12:23.820 --> 00:12:27.299 Now, people are watching it saying, Why are they not policemen? 163 00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:28.259 That what policemen do. 164 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:32.100 I put it all, I blame Michael Kane for almost all of this stuff you're talking about. 165 00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:48.059 We've cited we've cited Mike Hodges, who made get Carter, EU get Carter, in 1970, which pretty much rebooted the way you shot truth and griminess with the, and that, you know, that everyone's actually a little bit truthy and baddy at the same time. 166 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:51.299 We then got Mike Hodges doing Flash Gordon in 1979. 167 00:12:51.539 --> 00:12:54.360 With, of course, the fabulous Peter Wingard. 168 00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:57.240 More of him next week, more to him next week. 169 00:12:57.299 --> 00:13:06.179 But the point is that the public won't accept a drama like power of the Daleks now, we expect to see the violence, we expect to see, and it's not actually bought. 170 00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:07.259 We've had alien. 171 00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:13.860 We're about to get aliens, which I actually think if you want to talk about Doctor Who feeding back to the genre. 172 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:18.240 This actually predicates, the way those films are shot. 173 00:13:18.299 --> 00:13:20.039 We expect this level of violence. 174 00:13:20.100 --> 00:13:27.000 I want to touch on Bob Hoskins and Helen Mirror in a film, The Long Good Friday, but I'll get back to that, which is set in the same area in Wapping. 175 00:13:27.059 --> 00:13:29.460 It was definitely the precursor for this story. 176 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:33.960 And I, I actually want to be the critic in defence of say what for this story. 177 00:13:34.019 --> 00:13:40.259 Only because I've had to sit through it and I force myself to sit through it and in the end, I can see where he's coming from. 178 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:44.759 I'm not saying I'm a hero for him, but I think I can see why he did what he did. 179 00:13:44.820 --> 00:14:13.080 He makes an interesting point about his presentation of violence and it's not necessarily a point I agree with. in all of his execution, but his point about people saying your scripts are too violent, is to say, well, when you have the opportunity to present violence, you can either present it in a realistic way where it is horrible and you show that violence is horrible, or you can try and paper over it and show it in shadow, which is responsible, which is irresponsible. 180 00:14:13.139 --> 00:14:15.179 And he doesn't necessarily draw a conclusion to that. 181 00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:24.419 Richard, you were talking about the context, of course, we are in the grip of the slasher film genre at this point, Friday the 13th nightmare on Elm Street. 182 00:14:24.419 --> 00:14:26.519 Terminator came out 6 months after this. 183 00:14:26.580 --> 00:14:34.860 We also have a public that's expecting to be decimated with the AIDS crisis because we didn't have a cure and we didn't even know what it was and it was now named. 184 00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:38.399 So we've got the ontological theatres, we like to say. 185 00:14:38.460 --> 00:14:40.139 Well, I mean, in public as well. 186 00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:46.379 I just think that saying that I think he's responsive. rather than culpably transgressing. 187 00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:49.919 I think he's he's actually just picking he's giving us back what we already have. 188 00:14:49.980 --> 00:14:53.879 Well, I just think he doesn't know what Doctor Who is or what it's for. 189 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:56.700 But Doctor's always just really been a reflective me. 190 00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:59.039 Yeah, no, of course, of course it has. 191 00:14:59.100 --> 00:15:05.759 But the stories now are just increasingly like this. going to be what Doctor Who is like. 192 00:15:05.820 --> 00:15:10.500 And look on either side, look at either Frontios or Planet of Fire. 193 00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:12.419 They have their flaws or whatever. 194 00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:19.139 But there's more imagination in 5 minutes of either one of those stories than in this. 195 00:15:19.259 --> 00:15:23.399 Yeah, I think the big problem is not the way this story presents itself. 196 00:15:23.460 --> 00:15:29.340 If this story was, okay, like earth shock, earth shock was like nothing else around it. 197 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:31.919 Everything else, even even time flight. 198 00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:38.100 Almost everything else in that season, not Black Orchard, but Time Flight had these interesting central ideas. 199 00:15:38.340 --> 00:15:42.539 For to doomsday, interesting central idea, Kinder, fascinating. 200 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:46.320 Even the visitation was a twist on the old historical. 201 00:15:46.379 --> 00:15:48.539 We hadn't really had a historical in ages. 202 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:54.179 But definitely, I take your point, Nathan, that the program is steadily becoming more violent. 203 00:15:54.419 --> 00:16:02.340 I think with resurrection, I really enjoyed it as a kid not because of the violence, but I would watch it in isolation. 204 00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:06.000 I wouldn't watch it as part of a marathon. watching it as part of a marathon. 205 00:16:06.059 --> 00:16:08.460 The violence is far more affecting, I find. 206 00:16:08.580 --> 00:16:12.360 Sayer does repeat himself far too often. becomes dyspeptic. 207 00:16:12.419 --> 00:16:29.220 I find it hard to say, why I'm, if you're like okay with this violent story, beyond just saying, far better, far more than earth shock and far more than worries of the deep, just the characters being so well drawn makes the death, the deaths more affecting. 208 00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:35.279 But I think there's also structural problems with it that stand in the way of it really working. 209 00:16:35.340 --> 00:16:38.159 So take the Mercer and Styles plot. 210 00:16:38.220 --> 00:16:47.519 I do think the scene you described with that exposition, I think it's very good, you know, and I think he's very likeable and she's ruler Lenska, so she's fabulous. 211 00:16:47.580 --> 00:16:50.159 But it goes nowhere. 212 00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:51.059 Do you know what I mean? 213 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:57.000 Like they, uh, there's the Daleks invade, everyone except them and 2 other guys gets killed. 214 00:16:57.059 --> 00:17:02.759 Then we're making our way towards this, um, self-destruct thing, and then we all get killed. 215 00:17:02.820 --> 00:17:05.759 Uh, we never actually achieve anything. 216 00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:07.559 We barely interact with the plot at all. 217 00:17:07.619 --> 00:17:10.259 And it's hard to know what that exposition is for. 218 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:16.380 What's the point of setting up this world when it has no bearing on any other characters or the plot or anything. 219 00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:18.240 I mean, I think it's a giant mess. 220 00:17:18.299 --> 00:17:20.160 I don't know what the Daleks are doing here. 221 00:17:20.220 --> 00:17:30.240 I don't know why Davros insists on staying on the station except to, you know, be annoying or something, you know, like what are the dalek duplicates for? 222 00:17:30.299 --> 00:17:34.319 I do, I do have to agree that the plot is really weird. 223 00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:36.000 When I watched it as a kid. 224 00:17:36.059 --> 00:17:39.240 I thought Daleks had this plan to get Davros back. 225 00:17:39.299 --> 00:17:45.180 But suddenly the doctor turns up and so they decide, oh, we can go after the doctor at the same time. 226 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:51.240 But there's dialogue in there that implies that they've deliberately captured the doctor in the time corridor. 227 00:17:51.299 --> 00:17:53.279 So it's like, right, you're trying to free your creator. 228 00:17:53.339 --> 00:17:54.660 Cure this virus. 229 00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:58.380 Make all these duplicates and exterminate the high council all on one day. 230 00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:00.779 It's like, take a rest, guys, you know? 231 00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:03.900 Pick one Yeah, pick one thing and do it well. 232 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:14.220 It's a typical so good thing that, perhaps it's just a question of time and the time that he had, but the rewrites end up, you know, conflating into themselves. 233 00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:17.640 They don't actually add for greater explanation. 234 00:18:17.700 --> 00:18:24.299 They just compound the difficulties, and you see that again and again, over the last season and a half 2 seasons. 235 00:18:24.359 --> 00:18:26.099 Well, I think he's just barely competent. 236 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:31.079 I mean, he's had this is his 2nd go at it and he can't produce a script that hangs together in any way. 237 00:18:31.140 --> 00:18:39.599 I kind of think that Eric Saywood is very filmmic in his writing thinking because we're coming into the age now of home videos. 238 00:18:39.660 --> 00:18:43.680 So television starts to be written to be watched several times. 239 00:18:43.740 --> 00:18:49.380 Whereas I think a lot of films in this era are still being written as ephemeral. 240 00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:51.059 They're being written to watch once. 241 00:18:51.119 --> 00:19:00.900 And the 1st time you watch Earthshock, or the 1st time you watch Resurrection of the Daleks, you kind of leave it going, you know, wow, that was, that felt big budget and action-packed. 242 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:09.059 And you start watching it and going, why does the Dalek Supreme blame Lytton when anything goes wrong when Lytton just told him 5 minutes ago that that wouldn't work? 243 00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:10.319 Exactly. 244 00:19:10.380 --> 00:19:14.700 And why hasn't the Dalek supreme told any of the trooper Daleks what the ultimate plan is? 245 00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:22.619 So it's very likely that they will shoot the doctor and to learn whomever else they see rather than, or I'm going to get you into the cupboard with the steam room. 246 00:19:22.859 --> 00:19:26.700 Production info about the supreme Dalek itself. 247 00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:31.619 You only just see it, but it's got what is known as the oddball dalek skirt. 248 00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:34.440 So if you imagine a Dalek skirt. 249 00:19:34.500 --> 00:19:35.099 Oh, yeah. 250 00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:39.000 If you imagine a Dalek skirt and the front half is more pointed than the back half. 251 00:19:39.059 --> 00:19:39.720 Yeah. 252 00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:43.440 The bottom part of the Supreme Dalek is 2 front halves joined together. 253 00:19:43.500 --> 00:19:48.119 So it's pointy at the back end at the front, but there's only one or 2 shots where you could notice it. 254 00:19:48.180 --> 00:19:48.359 Yes. 255 00:19:48.420 --> 00:19:51.839 They didn't pick that up in the character options. 256 00:19:51.900 --> 00:19:54.299 No, the action picker is not accurate. 257 00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:56.039 Friend of the podcast, Aaron J. 258 00:19:56.039 --> 00:19:57.119 Climis is not happy about that. 259 00:19:57.180 --> 00:19:58.920 I demand your money back. 260 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:03.779 But yes, I just thought I'd throw that in there as a bit of production information. 261 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:05.400 I've actually been to Shad Thames. 262 00:20:05.460 --> 00:20:12.180 It's quite nice now and it's all, um, they've blasted the brick back to its some sort of sandstone like cover. 263 00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:14.339 It's been developed. been developed. 264 00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:21.539 It's shops and pie shops and flats and shops and Thai shops and bunting. 265 00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:22.619 Rubbish. 266 00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:30.420 It's exactly all the stuff that they were fearing at the time and, you know, went under Mrs. Thatcher that working class jobs were disappearing. 267 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:32.099 Manufacturing was moving out of the area. 268 00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:41.400 The film, The Long Good Friday, that came out in 1980 that launched Hoskins's career and had Helen Mirren as, you know, Guardian Supreme of the Galaxy, it was just part of your west place. 269 00:20:41.460 --> 00:20:46.319 But it was, it was, it was about exactly this. 270 00:20:46.380 --> 00:21:04.200 Rupert Murdoch had moved the times and his other presses into the area and the working class were getting moved out and it was actually about a cockney bloke wanting to build a casino on an sofa, unused and um, area of derelict, um, it doesn't reflect modern society at all, does it? 271 00:21:04.259 --> 00:21:13.559 But, um, it ends very violently, but there are scenes in that that look very much like that at the moments, especially on the, along the, um, the corridors with it. 272 00:21:13.619 --> 00:21:20.880 I don't think they actually push a Dalek out of a top story loading bay, but I'm sure that Helen Mirren has done that. 273 00:21:20.940 --> 00:21:26.039 She's certainly got evident bumps, and she certainly doesn't mind showing them off, so there could well be some of that in there as well. 274 00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:27.720 She didn't even know there was a camera running. 275 00:21:27.779 --> 00:21:29.519 That's just... 276 00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:31.200 Don't give me siders. 277 00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:34.200 The violence in this because that's really what this is all about, isn't it? 278 00:21:34.259 --> 00:21:36.180 I don't think the violence in this is misplaced. 279 00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:39.000 And I would like to believe that, say, word is using it. 280 00:21:39.059 --> 00:21:48.359 You have to show the truth of it to get your message across if you pedal backwards, if you soften the message, your message never gets out there. 281 00:21:48.420 --> 00:21:53.519 The point is, the doctor goes to shoot Davros and holds the garnet point blank. 282 00:21:53.579 --> 00:21:56.519 Deveros even jeers at him and he doesn't do it. 283 00:21:56.579 --> 00:21:58.079 Yeah, you see, I hate that. 284 00:21:58.200 --> 00:21:59.519 And I'll tell you why I hate that. 285 00:21:59.579 --> 00:22:01.140 Here's the moral dilemma. 286 00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:07.920 The moral dilemma is, should the doctor go up to the guy in the wheelchair and shoot him in the face or should he not do that? 287 00:22:07.980 --> 00:22:11.940 Now, I think that's a fairly easily soluble moral delay. 288 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:22.440 Just a guy in a wheelchair, no matter how you feel about DDA applications and the requirements and constraints to under the building code of Australia for having to deal with wheelchair people. 289 00:22:22.500 --> 00:22:23.460 Stavros. 290 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:25.380 But they have history. 291 00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:31.980 When he doesn't do it, and obviously he doesn't do it, it's made to look like a weakness. 292 00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:34.859 I think Seuid thinks that that's a weakness of the character. 293 00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:41.940 Yeah, I do, that he doesn't have the guts to do what really needs to be done in this brutal gun sort of situation. 294 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:43.079 Close. 295 00:22:43.140 --> 00:22:44.039 Thatcher reading. 296 00:22:44.099 --> 00:22:44.880 I didn't get it though. 297 00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:51.359 So my doctor. wouldn't be involved in this gun stuff. 298 00:22:51.420 --> 00:22:53.099 Pete has stacks of guns in this. 299 00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:55.140 He shoots a dalek mutant with a gun. 300 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:58.799 Yeah, well, that's the thing. doesn't have any problem shooting a blob, but as soon as something with a face. 301 00:22:58.799 --> 00:22:59.640 Yeah, that's right. 302 00:22:59.700 --> 00:23:00.660 He's blobbist. 303 00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:04.920 So Sylvester McCoy wouldn't do this. 304 00:23:04.980 --> 00:23:07.319 You know, there's a lot of guns and a lot of shooting. 305 00:23:07.380 --> 00:23:09.240 People get killed in remembrance of the dance. 306 00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:11.039 There's a lot of violence and silver nemesis too. 307 00:23:11.099 --> 00:23:14.759 But Sylvester's not directly involved in it. 308 00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:20.279 Sylvester actually force them to rewrite the script, so he didn't have to use a gun on 2 occasions. 309 00:23:20.339 --> 00:23:21.779 I agree with you. 310 00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:24.240 And as I mentioned, that's my big problem with it. 311 00:23:24.299 --> 00:23:32.579 It's like the doctor is perfectly happy to empty a clip into a dialect mutant. but can't then shoot Davros. 312 00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:34.319 And it was nearly a kitten, wasn't it? 313 00:23:34.380 --> 00:23:36.779 It could have been a kitten that he shot in the face. 314 00:23:36.839 --> 00:23:42.000 You know, and the thing is, the scene where he shoots the Dalek Mutant. didn't have to have a gun there. 315 00:23:42.059 --> 00:23:43.140 He's got a soldier with him. 316 00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:45.240 You know, that's what units for. 317 00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:48.599 But isn't that just abrogation of responsibility? 318 00:23:48.660 --> 00:24:08.400 But that would actually make the point at the end of the episode better, because the doctor's already picked up a gun and been happy to use it in this story, and now he won't shoot Davros in the face, whereas if he had refused to pick up that gun, picking up the gun to shoot Davros and then refusing to do so would have been more character defining, because he's already refused to do it once. 319 00:24:08.460 --> 00:24:10.859 I think what really sells it there. 320 00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:16.079 I mean, Davison, as we've mentioned several times this season, he's really come into his own this season. 321 00:24:16.140 --> 00:24:16.859 He's really great. 322 00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:20.339 But I think the best reaction to that is Tegan. 323 00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:23.579 Because Tegan doesn't know who Davros is. 324 00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:26.279 Tegan just knows Davros as a name. 325 00:24:26.339 --> 00:24:29.819 All she knows is the doctor saying, I am going to go kill a person. 326 00:24:30.779 --> 00:24:33.299 And her reaction. 327 00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:37.200 I think is actually what presages the end of the story. 328 00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:41.460 It's that her doctor... was going to kill someone. 329 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:44.880 And hey, as far as she knows, he did. 330 00:24:44.940 --> 00:24:46.859 He never he never says that he didn't. 331 00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:48.359 Mm. 332 00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:50.640 The moral dilemma isn't real. 333 00:24:50.700 --> 00:24:52.259 I mean, Saywood's made it up. 334 00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:54.119 He's put the doctor in that position. 335 00:24:54.119 --> 00:25:07.319 And in the same way, the doctor was put in the position of gassing all of the reptiles on the sea base a few weeks ago, you know, and we then gleefully do the same thing to all of the Daleks at the end of this story. 336 00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:14.220 There's no obligation on, say, it's part to create these particular moral dilemmas. and put the doctor in them. 337 00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:20.339 Whereas if we look at the awakening, um, the doctor's solution is to try to break the psychic link with Sir George. 338 00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:24.059 He keeps telling Sir George, you know, think free your mind, et cetera, et cetera. 339 00:25:24.119 --> 00:25:26.640 In frontios, he doesn't kill any of the tractators. 340 00:25:26.700 --> 00:25:29.099 He just separates them, so they're no longer a danger to the humans. 341 00:25:29.220 --> 00:25:31.019 If there'd been terreleptils, however. 342 00:25:32.819 --> 00:25:41.880 Do you remember Paul Cornell speech about the doctor in human nature, you know, that he makes the villains fall into their own traps and things. 343 00:25:41.940 --> 00:25:43.380 Yeah, he doesn't really do that. 344 00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:46.680 No, no, he just, and that's Saywood's thing. 345 00:25:46.740 --> 00:25:51.779 It's just the good guys and the bad guys are indistinguishable because they both have guns and they shoot people. 346 00:25:51.839 --> 00:26:02.220 The Daleks instead of being this mythic force, you know, that represents human evil or that threatens the galaxy on a grand scale. 347 00:26:02.279 --> 00:26:04.980 They just become another set of people with guns. 348 00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:06.960 There's nothing interesting about them. 349 00:26:07.019 --> 00:26:11.279 Look at how their 1st appearance is thrown away, like 14 minutes into episode one. 350 00:26:11.339 --> 00:26:11.819 There they are. 351 00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:20.160 We do get the end of episode one. in the 4 part version, reveal of some Daleks, but we've had them already shooting people. 352 00:26:20.220 --> 00:26:25.440 They're trying to do Star Wars actually. actually It's the Stormtroopers bursting onto layers ship. 353 00:26:25.500 --> 00:26:26.279 Yeah, yeah. 354 00:26:26.339 --> 00:26:31.859 But remember Star Wars is a romantic story about a farm boy and a pirate saving a princess from a castle. 355 00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:37.619 Whereas this is about Britain now and troopers and uniforms that are almost recognisable. 356 00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:39.539 They've just been through the Falklands. 357 00:26:39.660 --> 00:26:50.400 I think, say what is saying, I think he's very blanch, and I'm not going to backpedal and say that he's not heavy-handed in the way he sends his message, but I do think this is an anti-violent story. 358 00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:54.539 We're all missing the point that at the end, the doctor says, there's been too much. 359 00:26:54.599 --> 00:26:57.299 I have to mend my ways, whether or not he does is another question. 360 00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:01.740 But I don't think that Tegan's response is anything to do with Davros. 361 00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:06.359 It's actually just looking around at the corpses and realising this is not the brick I want to live in. 362 00:27:06.420 --> 00:27:17.640 Yeah, and Tegan has literally seen 2 characters shot in the back, one of whom she spent most of the story with, and Chloe Ashcroft, who I believe was a children's TV presenter. 363 00:27:17.700 --> 00:27:21.539 Yes, she was in Play School. comes in for a lot of criticism based on that. 364 00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:22.980 But once again, like Beryl Reed. 365 00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:25.559 I find her completely believable in the role. 366 00:27:25.619 --> 00:27:31.680 She is a scientist and sort of the character of Osgood in the new series seems to have been made in the same mulch. 367 00:27:31.740 --> 00:27:34.200 She's this kind of geeky character. 368 00:27:34.259 --> 00:27:35.339 She's a bit awkward. 369 00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:39.059 But she's sensitive and very cautious and mannered. 370 00:27:39.059 --> 00:27:45.839 And the way that you deal with a very naughty child who holds a gun is the same way she speaks to the soldiers. 371 00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:48.480 And no, I think that's actually the most dramatic moments in the story. 372 00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:49.920 I think it's a terrible idea. 373 00:27:49.980 --> 00:27:55.920 It would be like in Australia, you know, having a Doctor Who story where Noni Hazlehurst gets shot in the head. 374 00:27:55.980 --> 00:27:57.240 You know, it's just terrible. 375 00:27:57.299 --> 00:28:00.000 I don't think the 90 would take that long. 376 00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:01.619 Yeah. 377 00:28:02.700 --> 00:28:06.059 It's hard to say good things about this, isn't it? 378 00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:07.920 But it's well directed. 379 00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:11.039 It's the pace of it is frenetically good. 380 00:28:11.099 --> 00:28:12.359 Lighting's great. 381 00:28:12.420 --> 00:28:13.500 I like the score. 382 00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:16.859 I had very fond memories of this as being a good, tight story. 383 00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:19.559 I do think on reflection, it's very messy. 384 00:28:20.220 --> 00:28:34.980 And again, there aren't many stories of this season, I can't say that about, I know time was against the production team, and perhaps if they'd been able to have the luxury they have nowadays of having a year off in between, we would have had possibly a better season. 385 00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:38.579 But we get to see what happens in the classic series when they get that too, don't we? 386 00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:39.359 They're not too distant. 387 00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:41.819 Can we talk about Terry Malloy? 388 00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:43.259 Yeah, I think he's great. 389 00:28:43.319 --> 00:28:45.059 Me too. extraordinary. 390 00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:46.859 He's so different. 391 00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:48.720 And yet the essence of the character is still there. 392 00:28:48.779 --> 00:28:50.940 Do you know, I don't think he is particularly different. 393 00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:53.640 He's got that sort of, you know, pursed lips mouth. 394 00:28:53.700 --> 00:28:55.079 Like the mask is read. 395 00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:57.119 I really dislike the new mask. 396 00:28:57.180 --> 00:28:57.900 Do you? 397 00:28:57.960 --> 00:28:58.920 I think it's better. 398 00:28:58.980 --> 00:28:59.700 Really? 399 00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:01.380 Yeah, well, the issue one was terrifying. 400 00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:04.200 Yeah, in that it looked like Michael Wish. 401 00:29:04.259 --> 00:29:05.460 That's it. 402 00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:12.660 But once you've lost Michael Wisher, but what do you get is what Michael Wisher does, there's a slight camp crispness to the delivery. 403 00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:14.460 Peter Winker. 404 00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:17.400 I require living darlic tissors. 405 00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:21.660 But he has... 406 00:29:21.660 --> 00:29:23.460 He has 2 registers, doesn't he? 407 00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:28.920 Where he can do that sort of quiet, calm, reasonable thing and he's going to get better at doing that. 408 00:29:28.980 --> 00:29:30.299 Yes, I think. 409 00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:32.759 Certainly in his next appearance. 410 00:29:32.819 --> 00:29:43.259 He's really got that down to a T. And then he can do the terrifying rant and he does get an end of episode 3 terrifying rant in the four-part story, which is wonderful. 411 00:29:43.319 --> 00:29:44.220 It's so good. 412 00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:46.200 It's a pity the dialogue isn't better. 413 00:29:46.259 --> 00:29:48.599 I would love to have heard him deliver. 414 00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:50.700 The rivers of blunt speech. 415 00:29:50.759 --> 00:29:51.480 Yes. 416 00:29:51.539 --> 00:29:54.539 Although Enoch Powell, Davros, it's not that different. 417 00:29:55.200 --> 00:30:05.339 I would have liked to hear him get some dialogue the quality of the dialogue that he got from Holmes in Genesis of the Daleks. 418 00:30:05.400 --> 00:30:06.660 It would have been great to hear him. 419 00:30:06.900 --> 00:30:09.299 We get to hear him in Big Finish, do some pretty clever things. 420 00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:09.839 Yeah that's true. 421 00:30:09.900 --> 00:30:20.460 And it's no surprise that he's now really well loved by fans, you know, and highly regarded because it is a great speech and I think he's a, he is the best thing about this story. 422 00:30:20.579 --> 00:30:21.660 Yeah, yeah. 423 00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:25.440 As I said earlier, I think the guest cast are uniformly excellent. 424 00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:29.700 We've talked about Jim Finley and Rulolenska. 425 00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:32.460 And that guy who says, we are defenceless. 426 00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:33.779 Yes, he's great. 427 00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:36.839 You're the one we haven't talked about, Stein. 428 00:30:36.900 --> 00:30:38.640 Yes, Rodney Bews. 429 00:30:38.700 --> 00:30:40.140 Now we know he's terrible too. 430 00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:44.940 Well, you know who he was actually written as in the original draft before Saywood's rewritings. 431 00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:56.339 That was Chameleon, according to the family at the time, which is why he keeps changing sides, which is why he gets confused, and which is why there's that battle of rules between the doctor and Stein. 432 00:30:57.539 --> 00:31:04.980 And then they could have avoided the whole thing of having this thing locked in a cupboard if he's dead in the very next story after he appears. 433 00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:06.359 Yeah. 434 00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:06.660 Yeah. 435 00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:09.119 Actually, they could have just written him out like that. 436 00:31:09.539 --> 00:31:22.920 Stein is the point, I guess, we're coming too of why this story is not pro-Britain and not pro-violence and very much about 1983 and that we shouldn't be gleeful about the Falklands. 437 00:31:22.980 --> 00:31:28.740 I can't push enough, just how much military chic was in. 438 00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:32.220 Even in that club, what was it called, Blitz? 439 00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:36.420 In London, in the early 80s, of course, we were too young to be there, but we've read about it. 440 00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:43.980 Where neuromanticism started and where Bowie's look actually, you know, was took off 5 years before. everyone was wearing military this year. 441 00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:48.299 Instead of Britain being ashamed of what was going on on the Falklands. 442 00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:56.940 It was just like, that was the reason Thatcher came to power, those elections, and when she called it right in the middle of Warriors of the Deep, just to ruin the season opening. 443 00:31:57.000 --> 00:31:59.460 That's how much of a monster she really was, Nathan. 444 00:31:59.579 --> 00:32:04.319 But yeah, this is, this was really riding high, this nationalism. 445 00:32:04.380 --> 00:32:07.440 I think he's he's making a very valid point against it. 446 00:32:07.500 --> 00:32:09.539 I don't think he does it with great finesse. 447 00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:10.740 Or skill. 448 00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:15.299 I mean, I think the point's almost completely, you know, indiscernible. 449 00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:18.900 No, I just think it's a lot of people shooting each other on television. 450 00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:21.839 And certainly, as Sandra says, take a drink. 451 00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:27.900 Earthshock sort of valorizes the military on the very eve of the Falklands War. 452 00:32:28.019 --> 00:32:29.400 Yeah. 453 00:32:29.460 --> 00:32:31.259 We've covered that before. 454 00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:32.819 Yeah, I don't know that it does. 455 00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:40.859 I think it actually just shows how the military is made up of people and people have individual choices and decisions that they make at turning points. 456 00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:46.680 And that the colour of humanity is fractal and we get it even, you know, on the microlevel of the military. 457 00:32:46.740 --> 00:32:49.200 A military person is still a person who has an individual thinking. 458 00:32:49.259 --> 00:32:50.579 I'm not getting. 459 00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:52.019 Oh, we get that with Stein here. 460 00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:59.700 I also like that Lytton, um, Uh, listen, isn't even in himself completely unrelenting. 461 00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:04.380 I just don't know what he's for, you know, like it's an appealing performance. 462 00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:20.700 He's there because Eric Seywood doesn't doesn't believe that Daleks can deliver lengthy extracts of dialogue and he's he's gone on record of saying that that and that's that's why, for instance, he brings Dabros back in both of his Dalek stories. 463 00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:22.259 Also, Terry Nation insisted on it. 464 00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:26.339 Yeah, no, and they were going to, and say what wanted to kill off Davros. 465 00:33:26.339 --> 00:33:28.500 Yeah, story, you remember, and Nation vetoed it. 466 00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:29.220 That's right. 467 00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:31.079 The character of lesson. 468 00:33:31.140 --> 00:33:47.160 I find interesting because he is presented as sort of an out and out villain at the beginning, but then we start getting these things where he keeps suggesting all these really quite good ideas that will actually help and the Daleks, because the Daleks believe they are the superior beings, just don't listen. 469 00:33:47.220 --> 00:33:53.880 But, you know, it opens up, as you say, Nathan, the point of if the Daleks are superior things, why are they using these humans? 470 00:33:53.940 --> 00:33:58.380 Okay, the humans are more mobile, but mobility doesn't matter that much to adult. 471 00:33:58.440 --> 00:34:01.259 Like, it doesn't matter if it takes Dalek 2 extra minutes to get to. 472 00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:02.279 It's still gonna shoot you. 473 00:34:02.339 --> 00:34:13.980 I actually think it's probably just because, say, would likes to see lots of scenes of people shooting at each other with guns, you know, and that's cheaper to do with people in funny hats than it is to do with daleks. 474 00:34:14.099 --> 00:34:14.639 Oh, yeah. 475 00:34:14.699 --> 00:34:22.860 Maurice Cobb famously refused to wear the Dalek helmet unless absolutely necessary because as he points out, it looks like it. 476 00:34:23.099 --> 00:34:28.500 It looks like, yes, it looks like a very naughty Darth Vader convention, doesn't it? 477 00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:29.159 that's right. 478 00:34:29.219 --> 00:34:34.860 Yeah, well, you know, Nathan Turner saw them and said, no, get them off. get him off and everyone misunderstood his intention. 479 00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:38.940 Well, they thought he was just looking forward to Planet of Fire. 480 00:34:39.900 --> 00:34:43.019 I really like Maurice Colbin's performance. 481 00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:46.079 I like Rodney Boo's performance. think the cast is very strong in this. 482 00:34:46.139 --> 00:34:55.199 Um, they get they get, I think, 2 lines together, those 2, and it's, there's a rather brilliant moment where Rodney Boos turns to wait and says, well, what, what about when it's your turn? 483 00:34:55.320 --> 00:35:00.239 And that kind of starts his rebellious thinking and he escapes at the end. 484 00:35:00.300 --> 00:35:02.340 And we see him escape at the end. 485 00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:09.599 It's going to create a continuity problem next time because he has not shared a single word with the doctor. 486 00:35:09.659 --> 00:35:10.619 They never speak. 487 00:35:10.679 --> 00:35:20.579 The doctor just gives inside eye at one and then Lytton tries to shoot him, just as he's getting away, just because he sees movement, not for any particular reason, but we're getting ahead of ourselves. 488 00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:27.539 One of the cast member who we haven't mentioned is Les Grantham, who was mentored by Louise Jameson. 489 00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:30.179 Yes, when he started after, while he was in presume. 490 00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:33.300 Well, he was, and while he was knocked up, so to speak. 491 00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:37.559 He was offered Galloway as well, but he wanted the character that was on screen more often. 492 00:35:37.619 --> 00:35:39.119 I think he's suitably menacing. 493 00:35:39.179 --> 00:35:40.079 Yes, absolutely. 494 00:35:40.139 --> 00:35:41.820 He's no nider, though, is he? 495 00:35:41.880 --> 00:35:45.599 No, no, but the thing is, he's not meant to, because Nider had his own intelligence. 496 00:35:45.659 --> 00:35:47.699 I had the whole world. 497 00:35:48.360 --> 00:35:58.679 Kiston Kiston is taken over a few minutes after we meet him, you know, and until then he just seems like, you know, a bit of a job's worth mechanic. 498 00:35:58.739 --> 00:35:59.880 That's all he is. 499 00:35:59.940 --> 00:36:01.199 Bit of rough. 500 00:36:01.260 --> 00:36:04.980 He is, of course, famous for being Dirty Dan on EastEnders. 501 00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:06.539 Brilliant in it too. 502 00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:11.400 I haven't seen that since the 90s, but he's, he really did capture that whole Houston film. 503 00:36:11.400 --> 00:36:12.900 Yeah. style. 504 00:36:12.900 --> 00:36:17.519 That's Verdi Lambert, actually, the, you know, the Sweeney and special branch and minder. 505 00:36:17.579 --> 00:36:20.460 And as Richard mentioned earlier, he was in prison. 506 00:36:20.460 --> 00:36:22.559 And this is something we... 507 00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:23.760 By Louise Jamison, yeah. 508 00:36:23.820 --> 00:36:26.159 Um, he, um... 509 00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:33.059 He was in Germany and whilst he was drunk, he killed a taxi driver and was in prison for murder. 510 00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:36.300 Louise Jameson was teaching acting in the prison. 511 00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:42.059 And and saw his talent and sort of worked with him when he got out. 512 00:36:42.059 --> 00:36:45.539 She actually suggested him to John Nathan Turner. 513 00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:46.980 I know this, I know this young actor. 514 00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:48.719 I think he'd be really good for this role. 515 00:36:48.780 --> 00:36:58.500 And he's talked about some the murder quite openly in interviews and how how stupid he was and how much he regrets it, and of course, as you would. 516 00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:00.659 Well, we've all taken an Uber. 517 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:01.739 I think we can... 518 00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:02.699 Yeah, that's right. 519 00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:12.420 But yeah, so that is for anyone who didn't know Les Grantham's story that this was his 1st TV role. 520 00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:25.739 He's, he's, I think he's great, super menacing, and also he's got that cringing, shoulder shrugging nation, Decensian character of, you know, of the 2nd lieutenant of the 2nd baddie. 521 00:37:25.800 --> 00:37:27.900 There's always there's always, he knows he's going to cop a smack. 522 00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:29.639 Who was sick? 523 00:37:29.699 --> 00:37:35.820 Yeah, so Ian Roberts inhabited a similar role in Superman Returns, if we remember that film. 524 00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:37.500 Oh, he was the Les Grantham all the time. 525 00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:38.699 Yeah, I have never seen it. 526 00:37:38.699 --> 00:37:39.300 The Man of Returns. 527 00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:42.059 I'm not a shot at Wynyard Station at Martin Place. 528 00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:43.320 This entire film. 529 00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:45.719 It has Parker Posey, whom we now own. 530 00:37:45.780 --> 00:37:46.500 Yes. 531 00:37:46.500 --> 00:37:47.579 Many times over. 532 00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:49.199 Should we spoil alert? 533 00:37:49.260 --> 00:37:49.739 Yeah, go on. 534 00:37:49.739 --> 00:37:50.579 Lost in space. 535 00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:52.079 She's going to be Dr. Smith. 536 00:37:52.139 --> 00:37:56.099 The reboot Netflix lost in space. can't wait. 537 00:37:56.159 --> 00:38:03.300 Oh, and Moffat did it first. you're right Apparently it's been confirmed that Michelle Yeo is going to be the captain of Star Trek Discovery. 538 00:38:03.420 --> 00:38:12.360 Yeah, yeah, so I'm expecting cousin Michelle to invite me, you know, on board the bridge and let me sit in the captain's chair and press some buttons. 539 00:38:12.420 --> 00:38:13.320 It's not a chair anymore. 540 00:38:13.380 --> 00:38:15.480 It's a motorbike and she sits on it backwards. 541 00:38:15.539 --> 00:38:17.400 With Pierce Bros. 542 00:38:17.460 --> 00:38:18.300 Oh, God, no, no. 543 00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:20.639 Pierce Brosnan's just wearing a rubber latix. 544 00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:23.280 He is just... ripped for his pleasure face mask. 545 00:38:23.340 --> 00:38:25.500 We don't actually see that it's, he's, yeah. 546 00:38:26.219 --> 00:38:31.019 I don't know why we're so harsh on Eric Seyward when there's always Pierce Brosnan. 547 00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:35.219 I don't know, maybe Eric Saywood could have sung in Mamma Mia. 548 00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:38.159 One thing we've happened... 549 00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:40.500 Or Wind and the Willows is toad. just those lips. 550 00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:43.019 Can you imagine kissing Eric? 551 00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:44.039 Stiletto. 552 00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:53.940 I've just had a picture of he and John Nathan Turner exercising control conflict in the closed doors of Nathan Turner's office. 553 00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:55.079 I think that would have been very interesting. 554 00:38:55.139 --> 00:38:56.940 Gary Downey. 555 00:38:56.940 --> 00:39:02.579 Creative use of a script of worries of the deep episode for... 556 00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:09.539 One thing we've only sort of briefly touched upon and we should dedicate a bit more time to is, of course, this is Tegan's final story. 557 00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:11.280 Yeah, exactly. 558 00:39:11.340 --> 00:39:20.039 I think we need to Yeah, um, I believe Peter, Janet and Mark were actually contracted for the full year, but it was decided rather than everyone leave it once. 559 00:39:20.099 --> 00:39:23.760 They'd stagger it so everyone actually got a decent leaving scene. 560 00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:25.800 She apparently quit before Pete. 561 00:39:25.860 --> 00:39:28.260 She was the 1st one to hand in the resignation. 562 00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:31.860 I just think they're all standing around on terminus thing because she's right, isn't she? 563 00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:33.300 Really? 564 00:39:33.420 --> 00:39:35.880 I think, and I think actually that was the point, wasn't it? 565 00:39:35.940 --> 00:39:37.380 Yeah, well, then they decided, yeah. 566 00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:38.400 That was the point. 567 00:39:38.460 --> 00:39:42.659 I believe it was the production alternatus where Peter had to decide, are you doing year 4? 568 00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:45.000 And he said, No. 569 00:39:45.059 --> 00:39:49.619 I mean, Janet is a bloody tour de force in this, which is amazing because she's in bed for 2 episodes. 570 00:39:49.739 --> 00:39:53.519 I actually don't think she gets anywhere near enough to do. 571 00:39:53.699 --> 00:39:55.559 And... 572 00:39:55.679 --> 00:40:05.460 Well, even even towards the end, in sort of episode four, she does her sort of usual I'm annoyed with Pete kind of eye rolling thing, which I really love. 573 00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:06.960 It's one of my favourite things about her. 574 00:40:07.019 --> 00:40:13.500 But it doesn't look like she's being affected by what she's seen even after, you know, Chloe Ashcroft gets killed. 575 00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:15.000 She gets to react to that. 576 00:40:15.059 --> 00:40:21.539 But I think that that final scene, which I think is beautifully acted and brilliant and it does do what you say, it does reach it. 577 00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:23.519 It critiques the previous production. 578 00:40:23.579 --> 00:40:26.039 I think it comes out of nowhere a bit. 579 00:40:26.099 --> 00:40:34.800 Well, I mean, you've got that scene with the metal detecting guy on the river as well. and she's she's really, really distraught about that. 580 00:40:34.860 --> 00:40:36.539 I kind of think after she's drove back. 581 00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:38.880 She's being strong for Professor Laird. 582 00:40:38.940 --> 00:40:41.039 And she's like... 583 00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:41.760 Jenny to her mate. 584 00:40:41.820 --> 00:40:44.159 She's... 585 00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:45.360 Do you think she was? 586 00:40:45.420 --> 00:40:46.440 Jenny Laird? 587 00:40:46.500 --> 00:40:47.519 She, yeah. 588 00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:50.940 It's weird when she goes up to the Dalek ship. 589 00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:57.000 Mercer's suddenly pointing a gun in her face and I think she's just like the reason she doesn't scream is she's just exhausted. 590 00:40:57.059 --> 00:40:59.099 It's 5 over years. 591 00:40:59.099 --> 00:41:00.179 Right now. 592 00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:03.659 It's the point of she's just like, this is it. 593 00:41:03.719 --> 00:41:06.480 I am literally out, like, with... 594 00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:07.320 Just bit. 595 00:41:07.380 --> 00:41:14.519 And you get that wonderful bit with the continuing growth of the character of Turlow when he says it's Tegan, you idiot. 596 00:41:14.579 --> 00:41:16.860 She's a friend and just his voice lowers. 597 00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:20.880 And again, he's unlike, say last year, he's not trying to impress anyone. 598 00:41:20.940 --> 00:41:22.199 That is a genuine comment. 599 00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:26.280 There's actually a deleted bit to that scene, which I'm so glad they cut out. 600 00:41:26.340 --> 00:41:32.519 It's on the DVD when when Tegan says, oh, the doctor must be here, look behind you on points at the TARDIS. 601 00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:34.860 The scene cuts there. 602 00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:40.079 The extended version, Turlo, tries to go into the time corridor, and Tegan says, Turlo. 603 00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:46.019 And I'm so glad they cut that because that's Turlo running away after he's just done something really quite nice and heroic. 604 00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:46.800 Yes, yes, yes. 605 00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:49.079 No, end the scene there. and then he continues. 606 00:41:49.139 --> 00:41:51.900 Yeah, it was a really good choice of the director to cut that. 607 00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:57.239 But I always cry when I watch Tegan's departure. 608 00:41:57.360 --> 00:42:01.559 And I know I've said, I think it's a reaction to the doctor trying to kill Davros. 609 00:42:01.619 --> 00:42:11.099 But at the same time, she says she's not blaming the doctor and I believe in Janet's performance that Tegan, you know, doctor, it's not your fault, but this is what happens. 610 00:42:11.159 --> 00:42:12.659 It's the same reason Victoria left. 611 00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:13.440 Yeah. 612 00:42:13.500 --> 00:42:16.139 And it's it's similarly played. 613 00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:29.820 And you also have, in this doctor and in Turlow, you have 2 incredibly emotionally reserved characters who are just, They just shut down when Tegan. 614 00:42:29.940 --> 00:42:30.420 English. 615 00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:31.139 Yeah. 616 00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:36.659 They just shut down when Tegan says she's leaving, like Turlo almost falls over to say goodbye to her. 617 00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:38.760 Like he makes his way forward and runs into something. 618 00:42:38.820 --> 00:42:40.739 I like his awkwardness, actually. 619 00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:42.000 Yeah, he's physical awkwardness. 620 00:42:42.059 --> 00:42:42.659 It's really good. 621 00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:44.159 The Roger Moore school of life. 622 00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:54.599 You know, you counteract that with Tegan starts running off and it takes the doctor about 5 seconds to suddenly snap out of it and call out to her and she's like, no, no, I can't. 623 00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:56.340 Not in these hales. 624 00:42:56.760 --> 00:42:59.699 Yeah, Brendan knows what she's suffering. 625 00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:01.320 It's like... 626 00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:01.980 He's wearing them now. 627 00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:11.519 It's like a, it's kind of like a really bad breakup where she kind of wants to go back, but she knows it's the wrong thing. 628 00:43:11.579 --> 00:43:12.539 Well, she does. 629 00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:13.980 I mean it does look like she's turning back. 630 00:43:14.039 --> 00:43:15.599 That's you do sort of read it. 631 00:43:15.659 --> 00:43:16.980 She's only just decided to leave. 632 00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:20.940 But when she says it's no fun anymore. just think she's right. 633 00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:29.280 This is a character who doesn't want to risk being in another Eric Saywood story and so she's off and who could blame him? 634 00:43:29.340 --> 00:43:37.500 Again, I'm fully on her side, but I think that it's too easier reading. 635 00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:43.500 It's, it's kind of too solubstic a reason reading to just say that this is a violent show that's about violence. 636 00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:46.260 I don't even say Wod was not that heavy hand. 637 00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:49.559 I think he might become that heavy-handed in future though. 638 00:43:49.619 --> 00:43:54.300 There will be another season that I won't be here to talk about, so I'll leave that to my good friend Todd. 639 00:43:54.360 --> 00:44:02.820 Todd and I have a similar take and it'll be interesting to hear his opinions when we get to the final of this season on what we think of Davison's pulling away. 640 00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:11.280 If you're looking at how he reacts to Chameleon, who, even though we don't see him, he's, I thought it's supposed to be a companion. 641 00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:12.960 He's certainly treated like that. 642 00:44:13.019 --> 00:44:24.420 So I think that he's his dealings with with companions and and the loss of them. has not, I think, been a great scoring point in his favour so far. 643 00:44:37.860 --> 00:44:44.460 Nathan is breathing a sign of relief, dear listeners, as that's all the time we have for Eric Saywood's murder spree this week. 644 00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:47.460 I know, we ate cake, but we didn't talk about it because it just sounded too fun. 645 00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:52.199 Richard did bring us some lovely cakes from the Black Star bakery, so thanks. you, Richard. 646 00:44:52.260 --> 00:44:54.480 Yes, from the David Bowie Memorial Baker. 647 00:44:55.019 --> 00:44:56.880 He's dead too. 648 00:44:57.239 --> 00:44:59.579 Like Florence Henderson. 649 00:44:59.880 --> 00:45:02.760 The entire cast of remembrance. 650 00:45:02.820 --> 00:45:03.840 No, hang on. 651 00:45:03.900 --> 00:45:05.159 What was this one we just did? 652 00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:12.599 We will be back next week to talk about a bunch of knickers in Lanzarote for Planet of Fire, so do come back for that. 653 00:45:12.659 --> 00:45:14.099 Nicholas for Christmas. 654 00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:16.079 Oh, over on Bondfinger. 655 00:45:16.139 --> 00:45:21.900 Sadly, due to Christmas, we haven't been able to release our view to a kill. just don't think we want Roger to leave. 656 00:45:21.960 --> 00:45:23.639 I can't do it. 657 00:45:23.699 --> 00:45:26.280 Because inevitably we'll have to get to beer. 658 00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:30.119 But we do have all of our... 659 00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:45.659 We do have all of our Sean Connery commentaries up there, including Never Say Never Again, the David Neven Classic Casino Royale, and the 1st 6 Rogimore films on Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook, and iTunes, and Bondfinger cast on Twitter. 660 00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:49.619 Until next time, may none of your megalomaniac farts melt your face off. 661 00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:50.760 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 662 00:45:50.820 --> 00:45:51.599 Good night. 663 00:45:51.659 --> 00:45:52.619 I just dropped the mic. 664 00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:53.099 Good night. 665 00:45:57.719 --> 00:46:02.639 That was Flight Through Entirety with Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone. 666 00:46:02.699 --> 00:46:04.860 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 667 00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:09.239 This episode, Pointy at the Back, was recorded on the 26th of November 2016. 668 00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:11.760 The next episode will be released on December 18th. 669 00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:20.760 Do you like wearing rubber uniforms and phallic helmets, then join the bipedal Dalek Defence Force, and see really tiny cramped parts of the universe. 670 00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:27.480 Have you watched any more of class? 671 00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:29.280 I watched the 1st episode. 672 00:46:29.340 --> 00:46:33.900 And it's kind of the whole torture thing of, oh, I can see this is very competently made. 673 00:46:34.619 --> 00:46:36.420 What of what? 674 00:46:36.420 --> 00:46:38.159 I really like it. 675 00:46:38.219 --> 00:46:39.360 What did you think? 676 00:46:39.539 --> 00:46:41.880 Um, it was a lot better than I was expecting it to be. 677 00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:49.619 And it's certainly, it's certainly not as, say, smug as Buffy, because one thing that always put me off with Buffy was, everyone's so smart. 678 00:46:49.679 --> 00:46:51.539 It's like, no, no teenagers actually act like this. 679 00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:53.099 They're not that cool. 680 00:46:53.159 --> 00:46:56.820 No, they were TV writer versions of teenagers, you know, like they were. 681 00:46:56.940 --> 00:46:57.960 It was very guilful. 682 00:46:58.260 --> 00:47:04.739 One thing I'm on the fence about is Charlie, who is the alien being the gay character. 683 00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:12.659 It's like, okay, I really like that we have a gay character in a primetime TV series and he doesn't make a big deal out of it, but actually that doesn't represent our struggle at all. 684 00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:14.400 Make the seat character game. 685 00:47:14.460 --> 00:47:18.900 Well, I kind of, I like the fact that, well, Matusa's is... 686 00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:20.340 Yeah, true. 687 00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:24.780 And the delicious table wine. much beloved by teenagers, I hear. 688 00:47:26.579 --> 00:47:32.159 Yes, and I, I, actually, I think he was probably my favourite character in the 1st episode. 689 00:47:32.219 --> 00:47:34.199 They gave him a lot of funny lines, like... 690 00:47:34.199 --> 00:47:35.940 You watch Rambino. 691 00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:37.019 Everyone's very attractive. 692 00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:37.679 It is true. 693 00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:53.340 I like the idea that Charlie chooses Mateo's, not because Charlie's gay, but because he doesn't realise that most people choose someone of the opposite gender to take to the prom and he just doesn't kind of, because he's, he's an alien. 694 00:47:53.400 --> 00:47:59.760 But that's what I mean by it's not really too aggressive because he doesn't have to struggle. and it's safe and the parents go, oh, it's... 695 00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:04.019 But it does mean at least you do get, you know, gay kissing and other things on telling. 696 00:48:07.739 --> 00:48:10.199 Actually, no, naming gays? 697 00:48:10.260 --> 00:48:10.920 No, that's now. 698 00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:14.940 And I'm a huge fan of both Tanya and Ram. 699 00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:16.199 I think they're great characters. 700 00:48:16.260 --> 00:48:18.300 And April is getting good as well. 701 00:48:18.360 --> 00:48:19.260 Actually, yeah. 702 00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:24.119 Everyone's really well skipped. 703 00:48:24.179 --> 00:48:24.960 It's a class podcast. 704 00:48:25.019 --> 00:48:28.199 Well, it's going to be ages before we ever talk about... 705 00:48:28.260 --> 00:48:31.920 It's going to be called everyone's very attractive. everyone's very attractive. 706 00:48:31.980 --> 00:48:34.500 Hello and welcome to everyone's very attractive. 707 00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:37.199 That's the other thing. and Rod Ray is this with me. 708 00:48:37.260 --> 00:48:42.059 It's like, oh, look, it's a primetime drama and everyone has a 26 to 28 inch waste. 709 00:48:42.119 --> 00:48:42.599 Yeah. 710 00:48:42.659 --> 00:48:43.980 Wow. 711 00:48:43.980 --> 00:48:47.219 That's exactly why I keep watching. 712 00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:50.460 Everything I'm watching sort of was made before 97 at the moment.