WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-05-04 at 16:27:36

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Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety

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the only Doctor Who podcast whose bile has been weaponized.

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I'm Brendan.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm a pop out turkey baster with a prick on the end out of a

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wheelchair for this episode.

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Why was that not in destiny of the dialects?

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He could have done Tom instantly.

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So to speak.

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Are we still doing phrasing?

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Yes, sir.

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Eric Saywood is back in the writing chair?

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Arguably for the 1st time in 2 years with resurrection of the

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Daleks.

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Yay.

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We have mentioned the history of this before, but I'll just

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recap.

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This story was meant to close out season 20, but due to industrial

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action and problems with terminus and the king's demons.

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The whole story was shelved, led to Peter Grimwade, never

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directing for the program again because he annoyed John Nathan

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Turner.

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Dogs and cats living together, and instead we get it in season 21

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with changes made that Eric Sable was very happy with.

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He wasn't actually that happy with his original version of the

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script.

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So what's different?

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First of all, director, instead of Peter Grimwade, who, as I

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mentioned, I know John Nathan Turner, and thus was not rehired, we

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have Matthew Robinson directing the 1st of his 2 Doctor Who

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stories.

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Also, we have a new Davros spoiler alert.

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Davros is back in this.

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Yes, Michael Wisher wanted to do it, but he was busy smoking in a

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paper bag somewhere, so he couldn't. had work.

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Yes, yes, he had theatrical work.

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He had been contracted for the original amount of the return

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thought it was called Warhead.

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Warhead was another working title for it, but unfortunately, as

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Richard says, he wasn't available for these days.

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So Matthew Robinson chose Terry Malloy, who was famous for his

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voice work and still performs in The Archers.

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And in cabaret and on most bar tops, give me all the jeans.

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I think Robinson also, is he also the writer rest of um, edge of

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legal destruction and and impermanent oligarchies within the

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TARDIS.

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That's Nigel Robinson.

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That's Nigel Robinson.

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So that's his live in flatmate and no other, and the fact that the

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beds get pulled apart when the parents come and visit has nothing

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to do with anything.

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Right.

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Right.

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Gee, I'm informed.

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As an aside, with Nigel Robinson's novelisations, because

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recently...

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Well, they are good.

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When I was overseas, I recently reread the 1st season of Heart

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Novelisations.

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I think those 2 of them, and I've also read Underwater Menace

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which he does.

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I haven't read Planet of Giants, but it seems like in every single

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one, there's a slight misogynist undercurrent.

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I quoted ages ago in the underwater I remember.

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There's a bit where Polly is screaming hysterically.

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So Jamie slapped her.

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That shut her up.

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Yes, that one being televised.

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There is a lot of rapey inferences we've discussed, the rapey

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effect on Barbara and the problem with Susan in the 1st and 2nd

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seasons, but but yes, it's not exactly to the point of bidding.

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Billy backslaps any of them, does he?

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No, that's right.

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Well, he nearly gives Susan a jolly good smacked awesome.

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And tries to hit Greg Newark with a rock.

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But we're getting... much nicer.

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Yes, he'll just lock you out or kill you.

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Yes, we're getting behind ourselves.

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So, yeah, the Daleks are back for the 1st time since 1979.

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So it's been it's been 5 years almost.

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About 4.5 five.

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They have been making other television appearances in the

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meantime.

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And they have been kept fresh in the public's mind because of, you

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know, things like the Doctor Who, non-Christmas, Christmas special

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the 5 doctors and it.

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And also, um, Spike Milligan's Q series.

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It was the only time Dykes were ever allowed to be in a comedy

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sketch or lampooners because it was by Saint.

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Spike Milligan.

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Has anyone seen Pakistani Daleks?

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It's probably not broadcasting now because it's effing racist, and

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I'm sorry there is no other way to describe it.

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I believe, though, that network DVD is bringing out the entire

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existing queue series because, of course, some of the early ones

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don't exist anymore because British television.

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But yeah, so you will soon be able to buy that.

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And there are snippets of the Pakistani Dalek sketch in the

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documentary more than 30 years in the Tartars.

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Yeah, we won't quote any of it here because it is quite horribly

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racist.

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It is quite horribly racist.

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And it has a really, really bad animatronic dog.

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So I haven't mentioned.

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Janet's before.

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So Resurrection of the Daleks.

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I've been avoiding asking this question.

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We've got the legs right yet.

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We haven't got the walk right yet.

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I have been avoiding this question.

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Chaps, what do we think?

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I actually think at the moment, and my mind may change that this

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is the worst Doctor Who story.

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And just to play, just you would call advocate.

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This is the only one that's took me 2 solid months to get through

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because I found it almost unwatchable.

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I did actually find it unwatchable.

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Having finished it however.

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The accepted fan opinion against Seward and the ultraviolence and

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all the rest of it, when we actually look at how the doctor

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behaves and how the companions behave.

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I think we'll find that there is actually a case for the defence.

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I think there is a case for the defence and I don't want to get

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too far ahead. the story does critique itself in towards the end

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just in that very last scene.

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But essentially it's a tale of people in corridors with guns

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shooting other people with guns and it goes on quite a lot.

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It's horribly unimaginative.

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And I think it misuses and misconceives the Daleks in a really

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serious way as well.

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Both of those points can be counted with the thing that I'm always

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coming back with that it's Doctor Who is always about.

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What's contemporary in media and what's contemporary. always about

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what's going on around it.

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So when you say it's horribly unimaginative.

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Do you mean that it's just a borrowing from the other things that

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are going on at the time?

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Well, it's our second remake of Earthshock.

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Yes.

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And the idea that, say it is fascinated with telling stories about

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mercenaries shooting people and he sidelines the doctor.

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And so rather than sort of imaginative tea time, whimsy or

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interesting juxtapositions of things or playing with genres or

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scaring the crap out of little children or having fun and being

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funny and witty, all of those things that Doctor Who can do, he

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just has a lot of gray, unlikeable people in corridors blurting

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out this appallingly matcho dialogue at each other.

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People whose names you can't even remember when you've reached the

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end of it.

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And people die constantly and do it in a really repulsive way.

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Like, you know, Todd spent all of season 20 complaining that no

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one was dying.

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He actually texted us this morning.

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He's a really terrifying person when you get to know him, dear

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listeners.

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But here, lots and lots of people die.

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Their faces and hands melt off, you know, or they scream, like

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they shriek in terror and agony as they die.

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The 2 women who are killed, uh, the the woman on the space station

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the glamorous one with a cigar on the space station, and, uh, I

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want to say Chloe Ashcroft on earth.

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They scream in terror.

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It's just unpleasant and unenjoyable, and really the only way that

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Saywood knows of creating drama or anything is just to increase

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the guns and have more people killed.

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It's, it's poor.

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I hate it.

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You know, I really hate it.

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I would have killed to have a pteroreptil in this or a mandrel, you

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know, or a medusoid or, you know, something fun, something

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whimsical, something that wasn't leaden and horrifying.

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Something from the keys of Mariners.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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See, I have to disagree on a lot of your points because I agree, in

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a way, this is a remake of Earthjock, but also it's a very

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different story because Earthjock, even though it was dressed up

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was essentially a 60s based under siege story, the base being the

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bridge of the freighter, whereas this you've got multiple

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locations.

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We also avoid a problem we mentioned in worries of the deep a few

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weeks ago, where in Warriors are deep, you've got all these

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characters being killed, but as we said, we don't really care

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about any of them.

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Like the only one we kind of care about is Maddox and maybe Karina

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in that.

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Whereas.

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The opening scenes on the space station, Are quite masterful

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because you've got Mercer and Dr. Styles played by the wonderful

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ruler Lenska, spouting dialogue off at each other, that fills in

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what this world is like, but also tells you what their characters

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are like.

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So he is very upright and duty bounded.

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This is the way we do things by the book.

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She obviously has been there for years.

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She knows how this place actually works.

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She knows how the real world works.

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She actually calls him our green eyed new boy, I think, at one

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point.

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It sets the scene in a way that Warriors of the Deep just

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doesn't.

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So when these characters do start dying and are killed horribly.

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It's, it's affecting the fabulous woman smoking a cigar you

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mentioned earlier.

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Osborne, played by the wonderful Snei Gupta.

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She has, again, those wonderful character moments where she's

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teasing Mercer on the bridge because he's complained to the

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captain and suddenly he's on night shift.

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Oh, she's like, oh, someone should have warned you.

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You're fearing attack.

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I think she's really great.

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And then.

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She is killed at the end of the four-part version of episode one

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because this has weird broadcast issues.

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She is killed at the end of that episode and she goes down

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fighting and her death scream.

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It's not a pantomime theatrical scream.

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It's this, it's begging for a life in this shriek.

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And yes, it is uncomfortable.

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But it's not just uncomfortable. it's grotesque Brendan.

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So what's happened is she's with that guy, the terrible, terrible

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actor.

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Oh, Bridge.

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Who makes one of Doctor Who's few fart jokes before the new

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series.

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The smell.

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Yeah, what's that smell?

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Obviously, it's not the prisoner.

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So the Pakistani dialect.

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So his face and hands have melted off.

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He's horrified.

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She shoots him dead because that's the sort of macho thing that

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Eric Sey would enjoy putting on television.

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And then the sound of her shooting alerts the Dalek troopers who

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come in, she shoots one of them, and then they shoot her dead.

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I mean, that's horrible.

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It is horrible, but this is the reality of a Dalek attack.

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It's not all like destiny of the Daleks where people just lower

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themselves gently to the ground without a sound.

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When has the Dalek attack been portrayed like that?

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We went and saw Power of the Daleks, and Power of the Daleks has a

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big culmination in which the Daleks go through the base killing a

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bunch of people.

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And we do see dead bodies and all of that sort of thing.

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But what we don't get is this just sort of relishing the

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gratuitous violence and suffering and stuff that we get here.

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I think you've hit it on the head and it's all about the timing.

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Everything's about timing.

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Doctor Who and the exciting adventure in the power room of the

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Daleks was 66.

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We are now in 80 what three?

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Um, There's, the audiences have changed and the expectations

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00:12:04.200 --> 00:12:07.440
pretty much because of newsreel footage, pretty much because of

254
00:12:07.440 --> 00:12:11.039
popular press and what we saw with Vietnam, and then what we saw

255
00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:14.340
in Cambodia, also the way that we see violence enacted on

256
00:12:14.340 --> 00:12:18.779
television, policemen, for example, shooting people in 1971 in

257
00:12:18.779 --> 00:12:21.899
terror of the autons or in, and of the other early pertly things

258
00:12:21.899 --> 00:12:23.759
that got questions in parliament.

259
00:12:23.820 --> 00:12:27.299
Now, people are watching it saying, Why are they not policemen?

260
00:12:27.360 --> 00:12:28.259
That what policemen do.

261
00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:31.320
I put it all, I blame Michael Kane for almost all of this stuff

262
00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:32.100
you're talking about.

263
00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:37.860
We've cited we've cited Mike Hodges, who made get Carter, EU get

264
00:12:37.860 --> 00:12:42.000
Carter, in 1970, which pretty much rebooted the way you shot truth

265
00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:45.720
and griminess with the, and that, you know, that everyone's

266
00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:48.059
actually a little bit truthy and baddy at the same time.

267
00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:51.299
We then got Mike Hodges doing Flash Gordon in 1979.

268
00:12:51.539 --> 00:12:54.360
With, of course, the fabulous Peter Wingard.

269
00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:57.240
More of him next week, more to him next week.

270
00:12:57.299 --> 00:13:01.559
But the point is that the public won't accept a drama like power

271
00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:04.919
of the Daleks now, we expect to see the violence, we expect to see

272
00:13:04.919 --> 00:13:06.179
and it's not actually bought.

273
00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:07.259
We've had alien.

274
00:13:07.320 --> 00:13:10.200
We're about to get aliens, which I actually think if you want to

275
00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:13.860
talk about Doctor Who feeding back to the genre.

276
00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:18.240
This actually predicates, the way those films are shot.

277
00:13:18.299 --> 00:13:20.039
We expect this level of violence.

278
00:13:20.100 --> 00:13:23.340
I want to touch on Bob Hoskins and Helen Mirror in a film, The

279
00:13:23.340 --> 00:13:25.919
Long Good Friday, but I'll get back to that, which is set in the

280
00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:27.000
same area in Wapping.

281
00:13:27.059 --> 00:13:29.460
It was definitely the precursor for this story.

282
00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:33.480
And I, I actually want to be the critic in defence of say what for

283
00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:33.960
this story.

284
00:13:34.019 --> 00:13:37.440
Only because I've had to sit through it and I force myself to sit

285
00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:40.259
through it and in the end, I can see where he's coming from.

286
00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:44.159
I'm not saying I'm a hero for him, but I think I can see why he

287
00:13:44.159 --> 00:13:44.759
did what he did.

288
00:13:44.820 --> 00:13:48.419
He makes an interesting point about his presentation of violence

289
00:13:48.419 --> 00:13:53.460
and it's not necessarily a point I agree with. in all of his

290
00:13:53.460 --> 00:13:57.600
execution, but his point about people saying your scripts are too

291
00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:02.159
violent, is to say, well, when you have the opportunity to present

292
00:14:02.159 --> 00:14:05.279
violence, you can either present it in a realistic way where it is

293
00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:09.059
horrible and you show that violence is horrible, or you can try

294
00:14:09.059 --> 00:14:12.179
and paper over it and show it in shadow, which is responsible

295
00:14:12.179 --> 00:14:13.080
which is irresponsible.

296
00:14:13.139 --> 00:14:15.179
And he doesn't necessarily draw a conclusion to that.

297
00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:18.720
Richard, you were talking about the context, of course, we are in

298
00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:22.679
the grip of the slasher film genre at this point, Friday the 13th

299
00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:24.419
nightmare on Elm Street.

300
00:14:24.419 --> 00:14:26.519
Terminator came out 6 months after this.

301
00:14:26.580 --> 00:14:30.360
We also have a public that's expecting to be decimated with the

302
00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:32.879
AIDS crisis because we didn't have a cure and we didn't even know

303
00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:34.860
what it was and it was now named.

304
00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:38.399
So we've got the ontological theatres, we like to say.

305
00:14:38.460 --> 00:14:40.139
Well, I mean, in public as well.

306
00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:43.860
I just think that saying that I think he's responsive. rather than

307
00:14:43.860 --> 00:14:46.379
culpably transgressing.

308
00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:49.379
I think he's he's actually just picking he's giving us back what

309
00:14:49.379 --> 00:14:49.919
we already have.

310
00:14:49.980 --> 00:14:53.639
Well, I just think he doesn't know what Doctor Who is or what it's

311
00:14:53.639 --> 00:14:53.879
for.

312
00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:56.700
But Doctor's always just really been a reflective me.

313
00:14:56.759 --> 00:14:59.039
Yeah, no, of course, of course it has.

314
00:14:59.100 --> 00:15:04.620
But the stories now are just increasingly like this. going to be

315
00:15:04.620 --> 00:15:05.759
what Doctor Who is like.

316
00:15:05.820 --> 00:15:10.139
And look on either side, look at either Frontios or Planet of

317
00:15:10.139 --> 00:15:10.500
Fire.

318
00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:12.419
They have their flaws or whatever.

319
00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:18.179
But there's more imagination in 5 minutes of either one of those

320
00:15:18.179 --> 00:15:19.139
stories than in this.

321
00:15:19.259 --> 00:15:23.039
Yeah, I think the big problem is not the way this story presents

322
00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:23.399
itself.

323
00:15:23.460 --> 00:15:28.379
If this story was, okay, like earth shock, earth shock was like

324
00:15:28.379 --> 00:15:29.340
nothing else around it.

325
00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:31.919
Everything else, even even time flight.

326
00:15:32.039 --> 00:15:35.460
Almost everything else in that season, not Black Orchard, but Time

327
00:15:35.460 --> 00:15:38.100
Flight had these interesting central ideas.

328
00:15:38.340 --> 00:15:42.539
For to doomsday, interesting central idea, Kinder, fascinating.

329
00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:46.320
Even the visitation was a twist on the old historical.

330
00:15:46.379 --> 00:15:48.539
We hadn't really had a historical in ages.

331
00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:52.500
But definitely, I take your point, Nathan, that the program is

332
00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:54.179
steadily becoming more violent.

333
00:15:54.419 --> 00:15:59.159
I think with resurrection, I really enjoyed it as a kid not

334
00:15:59.159 --> 00:16:02.340
because of the violence, but I would watch it in isolation.

335
00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:05.340
I wouldn't watch it as part of a marathon. watching it as part of

336
00:16:05.340 --> 00:16:06.000
a marathon.

337
00:16:06.059 --> 00:16:08.460
The violence is far more affecting, I find.

338
00:16:08.580 --> 00:16:12.360
Sayer does repeat himself far too often. becomes dyspeptic.

339
00:16:12.419 --> 00:16:17.460
I find it hard to say, why I'm, if you're like okay with this

340
00:16:17.460 --> 00:16:21.480
violent story, beyond just saying, far better, far more than earth

341
00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:24.840
shock and far more than worries of the deep, just the characters

342
00:16:24.840 --> 00:16:29.220
being so well drawn makes the death, the deaths more affecting.

343
00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:33.240
But I think there's also structural problems with it that stand in

344
00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:35.279
the way of it really working.

345
00:16:35.340 --> 00:16:38.159
So take the Mercer and Styles plot.

346
00:16:38.220 --> 00:16:42.600
I do think the scene you described with that exposition, I think

347
00:16:42.600 --> 00:16:45.779
it's very good, you know, and I think he's very likeable and she's

348
00:16:45.779 --> 00:16:47.519
ruler Lenska, so she's fabulous.

349
00:16:47.580 --> 00:16:50.159
But it goes nowhere.

350
00:16:50.220 --> 00:16:51.059
Do you know what I mean?

351
00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:55.559
Like they, uh, there's the Daleks invade, everyone except them and

352
00:16:55.559 --> 00:16:57.000
2 other guys gets killed.

353
00:16:57.059 --> 00:17:01.559
Then we're making our way towards this, um, self-destruct thing

354
00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:02.759
and then we all get killed.

355
00:17:02.820 --> 00:17:05.759
Uh, we never actually achieve anything.

356
00:17:05.819 --> 00:17:07.559
We barely interact with the plot at all.

357
00:17:07.619 --> 00:17:10.259
And it's hard to know what that exposition is for.

358
00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:13.380
What's the point of setting up this world when it has no bearing

359
00:17:13.380 --> 00:17:16.380
on any other characters or the plot or anything.

360
00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:18.240
I mean, I think it's a giant mess.

361
00:17:18.299 --> 00:17:20.160
I don't know what the Daleks are doing here.

362
00:17:20.220 --> 00:17:23.519
I don't know why Davros insists on staying on the station except

363
00:17:23.519 --> 00:17:28.859
to, you know, be annoying or something, you know, like what are

364
00:17:28.859 --> 00:17:30.240
the dalek duplicates for?

365
00:17:30.299 --> 00:17:34.319
I do, I do have to agree that the plot is really weird.

366
00:17:34.380 --> 00:17:36.000
When I watched it as a kid.

367
00:17:36.059 --> 00:17:39.240
I thought Daleks had this plan to get Davros back.

368
00:17:39.299 --> 00:17:44.160
But suddenly the doctor turns up and so they decide, oh, we can go

369
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:45.180
after the doctor at the same time.

370
00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:48.180
But there's dialogue in there that implies that they've

371
00:17:48.180 --> 00:17:51.240
deliberately captured the doctor in the time corridor.

372
00:17:51.299 --> 00:17:53.279
So it's like, right, you're trying to free your creator.

373
00:17:53.339 --> 00:17:54.660
Cure this virus.

374
00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:58.019
Make all these duplicates and exterminate the high council all on

375
00:17:58.019 --> 00:17:58.380
one day.

376
00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:00.779
It's like, take a rest, guys, you know?

377
00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:03.900
Pick one Yeah, pick one thing and do it well.

378
00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:07.380
It's a typical so good thing that, perhaps it's just a question of

379
00:18:07.380 --> 00:18:12.180
time and the time that he had, but the rewrites end up, you know

380
00:18:12.180 --> 00:18:14.220
conflating into themselves.

381
00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:17.640
They don't actually add for greater explanation.

382
00:18:17.700 --> 00:18:21.420
They just compound the difficulties, and you see that again and

383
00:18:21.420 --> 00:18:24.299
again, over the last season and a half 2 seasons.

384
00:18:24.359 --> 00:18:26.099
Well, I think he's just barely competent.

385
00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:29.819
I mean, he's had this is his 2nd go at it and he can't produce a

386
00:18:29.819 --> 00:18:31.079
script that hangs together in any way.

387
00:18:31.140 --> 00:18:35.640
I kind of think that Eric Saywood is very filmmic in his writing

388
00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:39.599
thinking because we're coming into the age now of home videos.

389
00:18:39.660 --> 00:18:43.680
So television starts to be written to be watched several times.

390
00:18:43.740 --> 00:18:47.759
Whereas I think a lot of films in this era are still being written

391
00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:49.380
as ephemeral.

392
00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:51.059
They're being written to watch once.

393
00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:55.079
And the 1st time you watch Earthshock, or the 1st time you watch

394
00:18:55.079 --> 00:18:57.779
Resurrection of the Daleks, you kind of leave it going, you know

395
00:18:57.779 --> 00:19:00.900
wow, that was, that felt big budget and action-packed.

396
00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:04.559
And you start watching it and going, why does the Dalek Supreme

397
00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:07.680
blame Lytton when anything goes wrong when Lytton just told him 5

398
00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:09.059
minutes ago that that wouldn't work?

399
00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:10.319
Exactly.

400
00:19:10.380 --> 00:19:13.680
And why hasn't the Dalek supreme told any of the trooper Daleks

401
00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:14.700
what the ultimate plan is?

402
00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:18.539
So it's very likely that they will shoot the doctor and to learn

403
00:19:18.539 --> 00:19:21.420
whomever else they see rather than, or I'm going to get you into

404
00:19:21.420 --> 00:19:22.619
the cupboard with the steam room.

405
00:19:22.859 --> 00:19:26.700
Production info about the supreme Dalek itself.

406
00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:30.119
You only just see it, but it's got what is known as the oddball

407
00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:31.619
dalek skirt.

408
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:34.440
So if you imagine a Dalek skirt.

409
00:19:34.500 --> 00:19:35.099
Oh, yeah.

410
00:19:35.160 --> 00:19:38.160
If you imagine a Dalek skirt and the front half is more pointed

411
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:39.000
than the back half.

412
00:19:39.059 --> 00:19:39.720
Yeah.

413
00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:43.200
The bottom part of the Supreme Dalek is 2 front halves joined

414
00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:43.440
together.

415
00:19:43.500 --> 00:19:46.619
So it's pointy at the back end at the front, but there's only one

416
00:19:46.619 --> 00:19:48.119
or 2 shots where you could notice it.

417
00:19:48.180 --> 00:19:48.359
Yes.

418
00:19:48.420 --> 00:19:51.839
They didn't pick that up in the character options.

419
00:19:51.900 --> 00:19:54.299
No, the action picker is not accurate.

420
00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:56.039
Friend of the podcast, Aaron J.

421
00:19:56.039 --> 00:19:57.119
Climis is not happy about that.

422
00:19:57.180 --> 00:19:58.920
I demand your money back.

423
00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:03.059
But yes, I just thought I'd throw that in there as a bit of

424
00:20:03.059 --> 00:20:03.779
production information.

425
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:05.400
I've actually been to Shad Thames.

426
00:20:05.460 --> 00:20:09.240
It's quite nice now and it's all, um, they've blasted the brick

427
00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:12.180
back to its some sort of sandstone like cover.

428
00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:14.339
It's been developed. been developed.

429
00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:20.099
It's shops and pie shops and flats and shops and Thai shops and

430
00:20:20.099 --> 00:20:21.539
bunting.

431
00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:22.619
Rubbish.

432
00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:26.099
It's exactly all the stuff that they were fearing at the time and

433
00:20:26.099 --> 00:20:29.819
you know, went under Mrs. Thatcher that working class jobs were

434
00:20:29.819 --> 00:20:30.420
disappearing.

435
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:32.099
Manufacturing was moving out of the area.

436
00:20:32.160 --> 00:20:35.700
The film, The Long Good Friday, that came out in 1980 that

437
00:20:35.700 --> 00:20:38.579
launched Hoskins's career and had Helen Mirren as, you know

438
00:20:38.579 --> 00:20:41.099
Guardian Supreme of the Galaxy, it was just part of your west

439
00:20:41.099 --> 00:20:41.400
place.

440
00:20:41.460 --> 00:20:46.319
But it was, it was, it was about exactly this.

441
00:20:46.380 --> 00:20:49.319
Rupert Murdoch had moved the times and his other presses into the

442
00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:54.059
area and the working class were getting moved out and it was

443
00:20:54.059 --> 00:20:57.000
actually about a cockney bloke wanting to build a casino on an

444
00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:02.579
sofa, unused and um, area of derelict, um, it doesn't reflect

445
00:21:02.579 --> 00:21:04.200
modern society at all, does it?

446
00:21:04.259 --> 00:21:07.559
But, um, it ends very violently, but there are scenes in that that

447
00:21:07.559 --> 00:21:11.519
look very much like that at the moments, especially on the, along

448
00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:13.559
the, um, the corridors with it.

449
00:21:13.619 --> 00:21:16.680
I don't think they actually push a Dalek out of a top story

450
00:21:16.680 --> 00:21:20.880
loading bay, but I'm sure that Helen Mirren has done that.

451
00:21:20.940 --> 00:21:23.579
She's certainly got evident bumps, and she certainly doesn't mind

452
00:21:23.579 --> 00:21:25.740
showing them off, so there could well be some of that in there as

453
00:21:25.740 --> 00:21:26.039
well.

454
00:21:26.099 --> 00:21:27.720
She didn't even know there was a camera running.

455
00:21:27.779 --> 00:21:29.519
That's just...

456
00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:31.200
Don't give me siders.

457
00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:33.779
The violence in this because that's really what this is all about

458
00:21:33.779 --> 00:21:34.200
isn't it?

459
00:21:34.259 --> 00:21:36.180
I don't think the violence in this is misplaced.

460
00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:39.000
And I would like to believe that, say, word is using it.

461
00:21:39.059 --> 00:21:43.380
You have to show the truth of it to get your message across if you

462
00:21:43.380 --> 00:21:47.759
pedal backwards, if you soften the message, your message never

463
00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:48.359
gets out there.

464
00:21:48.420 --> 00:21:52.859
The point is, the doctor goes to shoot Davros and holds the garnet

465
00:21:52.859 --> 00:21:53.519
point blank.

466
00:21:53.579 --> 00:21:56.519
Deveros even jeers at him and he doesn't do it.

467
00:21:56.579 --> 00:21:58.079
Yeah, you see, I hate that.

468
00:21:58.200 --> 00:21:59.519
And I'll tell you why I hate that.

469
00:21:59.579 --> 00:22:01.140
Here's the moral dilemma.

470
00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:04.619
The moral dilemma is, should the doctor go up to the guy in the

471
00:22:04.619 --> 00:22:07.920
wheelchair and shoot him in the face or should he not do that?

472
00:22:07.980 --> 00:22:11.940
Now, I think that's a fairly easily soluble moral delay.

473
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:15.000
Just a guy in a wheelchair, no matter how you feel about DDA

474
00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:19.500
applications and the requirements and constraints to under the

475
00:22:19.500 --> 00:22:22.140
building code of Australia for having to deal with wheelchair

476
00:22:22.140 --> 00:22:22.440
people.

477
00:22:22.500 --> 00:22:23.460
Stavros.

478
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:25.380
But they have history.

479
00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:30.720
When he doesn't do it, and obviously he doesn't do it, it's made

480
00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:31.980
to look like a weakness.

481
00:22:32.039 --> 00:22:34.859
I think Seuid thinks that that's a weakness of the character.

482
00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:38.880
Yeah, I do, that he doesn't have the guts to do what really needs

483
00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:41.940
to be done in this brutal gun sort of situation.

484
00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:43.079
Close.

485
00:22:43.140 --> 00:22:44.039
Thatcher reading.

486
00:22:44.099 --> 00:22:44.880
I didn't get it though.

487
00:22:44.940 --> 00:22:51.359
So my doctor. wouldn't be involved in this gun stuff.

488
00:22:51.420 --> 00:22:53.099
Pete has stacks of guns in this.

489
00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:55.140
He shoots a dalek mutant with a gun.

490
00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:57.119
Yeah, well, that's the thing. doesn't have any problem shooting a

491
00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:58.799
blob, but as soon as something with a face.

492
00:22:58.799 --> 00:22:59.640
Yeah, that's right.

493
00:22:59.700 --> 00:23:00.660
He's blobbist.

494
00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:04.920
So Sylvester McCoy wouldn't do this.

495
00:23:04.980 --> 00:23:07.319
You know, there's a lot of guns and a lot of shooting.

496
00:23:07.380 --> 00:23:09.240
People get killed in remembrance of the dance.

497
00:23:09.240 --> 00:23:11.039
There's a lot of violence and silver nemesis too.

498
00:23:11.099 --> 00:23:14.759
But Sylvester's not directly involved in it.

499
00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:18.299
Sylvester actually force them to rewrite the script, so he didn't

500
00:23:18.299 --> 00:23:20.279
have to use a gun on 2 occasions.

501
00:23:20.339 --> 00:23:21.779
I agree with you.

502
00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:24.240
And as I mentioned, that's my big problem with it.

503
00:23:24.299 --> 00:23:28.019
It's like the doctor is perfectly happy to empty a clip into a

504
00:23:28.019 --> 00:23:32.579
dialect mutant. but can't then shoot Davros.

505
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:34.319
And it was nearly a kitten, wasn't it?

506
00:23:34.380 --> 00:23:36.779
It could have been a kitten that he shot in the face.

507
00:23:36.839 --> 00:23:40.019
You know, and the thing is, the scene where he shoots the Dalek

508
00:23:40.019 --> 00:23:42.000
Mutant. didn't have to have a gun there.

509
00:23:42.059 --> 00:23:43.140
He's got a soldier with him.

510
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:45.240
You know, that's what units for.

511
00:23:45.720 --> 00:23:48.599
But isn't that just abrogation of responsibility?

512
00:23:48.660 --> 00:23:51.900
But that would actually make the point at the end of the episode

513
00:23:51.900 --> 00:23:55.140
better, because the doctor's already picked up a gun and been

514
00:23:55.140 --> 00:23:58.319
happy to use it in this story, and now he won't shoot Davros in

515
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:02.220
the face, whereas if he had refused to pick up that gun, picking

516
00:24:02.220 --> 00:24:04.980
up the gun to shoot Davros and then refusing to do so would have

517
00:24:04.980 --> 00:24:07.920
been more character defining, because he's already refused to do

518
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:08.400
it once.

519
00:24:08.460 --> 00:24:10.859
I think what really sells it there.

520
00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:14.460
I mean, Davison, as we've mentioned several times this season, he's

521
00:24:14.460 --> 00:24:16.079
really come into his own this season.

522
00:24:16.140 --> 00:24:16.859
He's really great.

523
00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:20.339
But I think the best reaction to that is Tegan.

524
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:23.579
Because Tegan doesn't know who Davros is.

525
00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:26.279
Tegan just knows Davros as a name.

526
00:24:26.339 --> 00:24:29.519
All she knows is the doctor saying, I am going to go kill a

527
00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:29.819
person.

528
00:24:30.779 --> 00:24:33.299
And her reaction.

529
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:37.200
I think is actually what presages the end of the story.

530
00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:41.460
It's that her doctor... was going to kill someone.

531
00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:44.880
And hey, as far as she knows, he did.

532
00:24:44.940 --> 00:24:46.859
He never he never says that he didn't.

533
00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:48.359
Mm.

534
00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:50.640
The moral dilemma isn't real.

535
00:24:50.700 --> 00:24:52.259
I mean, Saywood's made it up.

536
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:54.119
He's put the doctor in that position.

537
00:24:54.119 --> 00:24:57.779
And in the same way, the doctor was put in the position of gassing

538
00:24:57.779 --> 00:25:02.220
all of the reptiles on the sea base a few weeks ago, you know, and

539
00:25:02.220 --> 00:25:06.539
we then gleefully do the same thing to all of the Daleks at the

540
00:25:06.539 --> 00:25:07.319
end of this story.

541
00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:11.039
There's no obligation on, say, it's part to create these

542
00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:14.220
particular moral dilemmas. and put the doctor in them.

543
00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:18.000
Whereas if we look at the awakening, um, the doctor's solution is

544
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:20.339
to try to break the psychic link with Sir George.

545
00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:23.279
He keeps telling Sir George, you know, think free your mind, et

546
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:24.059
cetera, et cetera.

547
00:25:24.119 --> 00:25:26.640
In frontios, he doesn't kill any of the tractators.

548
00:25:26.700 --> 00:25:28.859
He just separates them, so they're no longer a danger to the

549
00:25:28.859 --> 00:25:29.099
humans.

550
00:25:29.220 --> 00:25:31.019
If there'd been terreleptils, however.

551
00:25:32.819 --> 00:25:37.500
Do you remember Paul Cornell speech about the doctor in human

552
00:25:37.500 --> 00:25:40.500
nature, you know, that he makes the villains fall into their own

553
00:25:40.500 --> 00:25:41.880
traps and things.

554
00:25:41.940 --> 00:25:43.380
Yeah, he doesn't really do that.

555
00:25:43.440 --> 00:25:46.680
No, no, he just, and that's Saywood's thing.

556
00:25:46.740 --> 00:25:49.559
It's just the good guys and the bad guys are indistinguishable

557
00:25:49.559 --> 00:25:51.779
because they both have guns and they shoot people.

558
00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:56.819
The Daleks instead of being this mythic force, you know, that

559
00:25:56.819 --> 00:26:01.680
represents human evil or that threatens the galaxy on a grand

560
00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:02.220
scale.

561
00:26:02.279 --> 00:26:04.980
They just become another set of people with guns.

562
00:26:05.039 --> 00:26:06.960
There's nothing interesting about them.

563
00:26:07.019 --> 00:26:10.140
Look at how their 1st appearance is thrown away, like 14 minutes

564
00:26:10.140 --> 00:26:11.279
into episode one.

565
00:26:11.339 --> 00:26:11.819
There they are.

566
00:26:11.880 --> 00:26:17.940
We do get the end of episode one. in the 4 part version, reveal of

567
00:26:17.940 --> 00:26:20.160
some Daleks, but we've had them already shooting people.

568
00:26:20.220 --> 00:26:22.680
They're trying to do Star Wars actually. actually It's the

569
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:25.440
Stormtroopers bursting onto layers ship.

570
00:26:25.500 --> 00:26:26.279
Yeah, yeah.

571
00:26:26.339 --> 00:26:29.880
But remember Star Wars is a romantic story about a farm boy and a

572
00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:31.859
pirate saving a princess from a castle.

573
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:36.299
Whereas this is about Britain now and troopers and uniforms that

574
00:26:36.299 --> 00:26:37.619
are almost recognisable.

575
00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:39.539
They've just been through the Falklands.

576
00:26:39.660 --> 00:26:44.279
I think, say what is saying, I think he's very blanch, and I'm not

577
00:26:44.279 --> 00:26:47.339
going to backpedal and say that he's not heavy-handed in the way

578
00:26:47.339 --> 00:26:50.160
he sends his message, but I do think this is an anti-violent

579
00:26:50.160 --> 00:26:50.400
story.

580
00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:53.400
We're all missing the point that at the end, the doctor says

581
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:54.539
there's been too much.

582
00:26:54.599 --> 00:26:57.000
I have to mend my ways, whether or not he does is another

583
00:26:57.000 --> 00:26:57.299
question.

584
00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:01.140
But I don't think that Tegan's response is anything to do with

585
00:27:01.140 --> 00:27:01.740
Davros.

586
00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:03.960
It's actually just looking around at the corpses and realising

587
00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:06.359
this is not the brick I want to live in.

588
00:27:06.420 --> 00:27:10.799
Yeah, and Tegan has literally seen 2 characters shot in the back

589
00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:15.359
one of whom she spent most of the story with, and Chloe Ashcroft

590
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:17.640
who I believe was a children's TV presenter.

591
00:27:17.700 --> 00:27:21.240
Yes, she was in Play School. comes in for a lot of criticism based

592
00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:21.539
on that.

593
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:22.980
But once again, like Beryl Reed.

594
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:25.559
I find her completely believable in the role.

595
00:27:25.619 --> 00:27:29.940
She is a scientist and sort of the character of Osgood in the new

596
00:27:29.940 --> 00:27:31.680
series seems to have been made in the same mulch.

597
00:27:31.740 --> 00:27:34.200
She's this kind of geeky character.

598
00:27:34.259 --> 00:27:35.339
She's a bit awkward.

599
00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:39.059
But she's sensitive and very cautious and mannered.

600
00:27:39.059 --> 00:27:43.740
And the way that you deal with a very naughty child who holds a

601
00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:45.839
gun is the same way she speaks to the soldiers.

602
00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:48.299
And no, I think that's actually the most dramatic moments in the

603
00:27:48.299 --> 00:27:48.480
story.

604
00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:49.920
I think it's a terrible idea.

605
00:27:49.980 --> 00:27:53.640
It would be like in Australia, you know, having a Doctor Who story

606
00:27:53.640 --> 00:27:55.920
where Noni Hazlehurst gets shot in the head.

607
00:27:55.980 --> 00:27:57.240
You know, it's just terrible.

608
00:27:57.299 --> 00:28:00.000
I don't think the 90 would take that long.

609
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:01.619
Yeah.

610
00:28:02.700 --> 00:28:06.059
It's hard to say good things about this, isn't it?

611
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:07.920
But it's well directed.

612
00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:11.039
It's the pace of it is frenetically good.

613
00:28:11.099 --> 00:28:12.359
Lighting's great.

614
00:28:12.420 --> 00:28:13.500
I like the score.

615
00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:16.859
I had very fond memories of this as being a good, tight story.

616
00:28:16.920 --> 00:28:19.559
I do think on reflection, it's very messy.

617
00:28:20.220 --> 00:28:25.079
And again, there aren't many stories of this season, I can't say

618
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:28.019
that about, I know time was against the production team, and

619
00:28:28.019 --> 00:28:31.380
perhaps if they'd been able to have the luxury they have nowadays

620
00:28:31.380 --> 00:28:34.380
of having a year off in between, we would have had possibly a

621
00:28:34.380 --> 00:28:34.980
better season.

622
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:37.619
But we get to see what happens in the classic series when they get

623
00:28:37.619 --> 00:28:38.579
that too, don't we?

624
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:39.359
They're not too distant.

625
00:28:39.480 --> 00:28:41.819
Can we talk about Terry Malloy?

626
00:28:41.880 --> 00:28:43.259
Yeah, I think he's great.

627
00:28:43.319 --> 00:28:45.059
Me too. extraordinary.

628
00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:46.859
He's so different.

629
00:28:46.920 --> 00:28:48.720
And yet the essence of the character is still there.

630
00:28:48.779 --> 00:28:50.940
Do you know, I don't think he is particularly different.

631
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:53.640
He's got that sort of, you know, pursed lips mouth.

632
00:28:53.700 --> 00:28:55.079
Like the mask is read.

633
00:28:55.079 --> 00:28:57.119
I really dislike the new mask.

634
00:28:57.180 --> 00:28:57.900
Do you?

635
00:28:57.960 --> 00:28:58.920
I think it's better.

636
00:28:58.980 --> 00:28:59.700
Really?

637
00:28:59.759 --> 00:29:01.380
Yeah, well, the issue one was terrifying.

638
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:04.200
Yeah, in that it looked like Michael Wish.

639
00:29:04.259 --> 00:29:05.460
That's it.

640
00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:09.240
But once you've lost Michael Wisher, but what do you get is what

641
00:29:09.240 --> 00:29:12.240
Michael Wisher does, there's a slight camp crispness to the

642
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:12.660
delivery.

643
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:14.460
Peter Winker.

644
00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:17.400
I require living darlic tissors.

645
00:29:18.359 --> 00:29:21.660
But he has...

646
00:29:21.660 --> 00:29:23.460
He has 2 registers, doesn't he?

647
00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:27.359
Where he can do that sort of quiet, calm, reasonable thing and

648
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:28.920
he's going to get better at doing that.

649
00:29:28.980 --> 00:29:30.299
Yes, I think.

650
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:32.759
Certainly in his next appearance.

651
00:29:32.819 --> 00:29:36.660
He's really got that down to a T. And then he can do the

652
00:29:36.660 --> 00:29:40.140
terrifying rant and he does get an end of episode 3 terrifying

653
00:29:40.140 --> 00:29:43.259
rant in the four-part story, which is wonderful.

654
00:29:43.319 --> 00:29:44.220
It's so good.

655
00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:46.200
It's a pity the dialogue isn't better.

656
00:29:46.259 --> 00:29:48.599
I would love to have heard him deliver.

657
00:29:48.599 --> 00:29:50.700
The rivers of blunt speech.

658
00:29:50.759 --> 00:29:51.480
Yes.

659
00:29:51.539 --> 00:29:54.539
Although Enoch Powell, Davros, it's not that different.

660
00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:59.819
I would have liked to hear him get some dialogue the quality of

661
00:29:59.819 --> 00:30:05.339
the dialogue that he got from Holmes in Genesis of the Daleks.

662
00:30:05.400 --> 00:30:06.660
It would have been great to hear him.

663
00:30:06.900 --> 00:30:09.299
We get to hear him in Big Finish, do some pretty clever things.

664
00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:09.839
Yeah that's true.

665
00:30:09.900 --> 00:30:14.400
And it's no surprise that he's now really well loved by fans, you

666
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:17.940
know, and highly regarded because it is a great speech and I think

667
00:30:17.940 --> 00:30:20.460
he's a, he is the best thing about this story.

668
00:30:20.579 --> 00:30:21.660
Yeah, yeah.

669
00:30:21.720 --> 00:30:25.079
As I said earlier, I think the guest cast are uniformly

670
00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:25.440
excellent.

671
00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:29.700
We've talked about Jim Finley and Rulolenska.

672
00:30:29.759 --> 00:30:32.460
And that guy who says, we are defenceless.

673
00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:33.779
Yes, he's great.

674
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:36.839
You're the one we haven't talked about, Stein.

675
00:30:36.900 --> 00:30:38.640
Yes, Rodney Bews.

676
00:30:38.700 --> 00:30:40.140
Now we know he's terrible too.

677
00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:42.779
Well, you know who he was actually written as in the original

678
00:30:42.779 --> 00:30:44.940
draft before Saywood's rewritings.

679
00:30:45.000 --> 00:30:49.319
That was Chameleon, according to the family at the time, which is

680
00:30:49.319 --> 00:30:52.859
why he keeps changing sides, which is why he gets confused, and

681
00:30:52.859 --> 00:30:55.859
which is why there's that battle of rules between the doctor and

682
00:30:55.859 --> 00:30:56.339
Stein.

683
00:30:57.539 --> 00:31:01.140
And then they could have avoided the whole thing of having this

684
00:31:01.140 --> 00:31:03.960
thing locked in a cupboard if he's dead in the very next story

685
00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:04.980
after he appears.

686
00:31:05.039 --> 00:31:06.359
Yeah.

687
00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:06.660
Yeah.

688
00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:09.119
Actually, they could have just written him out like that.

689
00:31:09.539 --> 00:31:15.299
Stein is the point, I guess, we're coming too of why this story is

690
00:31:15.299 --> 00:31:20.640
not pro-Britain and not pro-violence and very much about 1983 and

691
00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:22.920
that we shouldn't be gleeful about the Falklands.

692
00:31:22.980 --> 00:31:28.740
I can't push enough, just how much military chic was in.

693
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:32.220
Even in that club, what was it called, Blitz?

694
00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:35.400
In London, in the early 80s, of course, we were too young to be

695
00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:36.420
there, but we've read about it.

696
00:31:36.480 --> 00:31:39.660
Where neuromanticism started and where Bowie's look actually, you

697
00:31:39.660 --> 00:31:43.500
know, was took off 5 years before. everyone was wearing military

698
00:31:43.500 --> 00:31:43.980
this year.

699
00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:47.579
Instead of Britain being ashamed of what was going on on the

700
00:31:47.579 --> 00:31:48.299
Falklands.

701
00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:51.119
It was just like, that was the reason Thatcher came to power, those

702
00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:54.180
elections, and when she called it right in the middle of Warriors

703
00:31:54.180 --> 00:31:56.940
of the Deep, just to ruin the season opening.

704
00:31:57.000 --> 00:31:59.460
That's how much of a monster she really was, Nathan.

705
00:31:59.579 --> 00:32:04.319
But yeah, this is, this was really riding high, this nationalism.

706
00:32:04.380 --> 00:32:07.440
I think he's he's making a very valid point against it.

707
00:32:07.500 --> 00:32:09.539
I don't think he does it with great finesse.

708
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:10.740
Or skill.

709
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:14.099
I mean, I think the point's almost completely, you know

710
00:32:14.099 --> 00:32:15.299
indiscernible.

711
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:18.420
No, I just think it's a lot of people shooting each other on

712
00:32:18.420 --> 00:32:18.900
television.

713
00:32:18.960 --> 00:32:21.839
And certainly, as Sandra says, take a drink.

714
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:27.059
Earthshock sort of valorizes the military on the very eve of the

715
00:32:27.059 --> 00:32:27.900
Falklands War.

716
00:32:28.019 --> 00:32:29.400
Yeah.

717
00:32:29.460 --> 00:32:31.259
We've covered that before.

718
00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:32.819
Yeah, I don't know that it does.

719
00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:35.460
I think it actually just shows how the military is made up of

720
00:32:35.460 --> 00:32:38.640
people and people have individual choices and decisions that they

721
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:40.859
make at turning points.

722
00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:45.240
And that the colour of humanity is fractal and we get it even, you

723
00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:46.680
know, on the microlevel of the military.

724
00:32:46.740 --> 00:32:48.779
A military person is still a person who has an individual

725
00:32:48.779 --> 00:32:49.200
thinking.

726
00:32:49.259 --> 00:32:50.579
I'm not getting.

727
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:52.019
Oh, we get that with Stein here.

728
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:58.500
I also like that Lytton, um, Uh, listen, isn't even in himself

729
00:32:58.500 --> 00:32:59.700
completely unrelenting.

730
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:03.960
I just don't know what he's for, you know, like it's an appealing

731
00:33:03.960 --> 00:33:04.380
performance.

732
00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:08.519
He's there because Eric Seywood doesn't doesn't believe that

733
00:33:08.519 --> 00:33:13.799
Daleks can deliver lengthy extracts of dialogue and he's he's gone

734
00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:17.519
on record of saying that that and that's that's why, for instance

735
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:20.700
he brings Dabros back in both of his Dalek stories.

736
00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:22.259
Also, Terry Nation insisted on it.

737
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:25.079
Yeah, no, and they were going to, and say what wanted to kill off

738
00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:26.339
Davros.

739
00:33:26.339 --> 00:33:28.500
Yeah, story, you remember, and Nation vetoed it.

740
00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:29.220
That's right.

741
00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:31.079
The character of lesson.

742
00:33:31.140 --> 00:33:34.079
I find interesting because he is presented as sort of an out and

743
00:33:34.079 --> 00:33:37.319
out villain at the beginning, but then we start getting these

744
00:33:37.319 --> 00:33:40.680
things where he keeps suggesting all these really quite good ideas

745
00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:44.279
that will actually help and the Daleks, because the Daleks believe

746
00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:47.160
they are the superior beings, just don't listen.

747
00:33:47.220 --> 00:33:50.099
But, you know, it opens up, as you say, Nathan, the point of if

748
00:33:50.099 --> 00:33:53.880
the Daleks are superior things, why are they using these humans?

749
00:33:53.940 --> 00:33:57.599
Okay, the humans are more mobile, but mobility doesn't matter that

750
00:33:57.599 --> 00:33:58.380
much to adult.

751
00:33:58.440 --> 00:34:01.019
Like, it doesn't matter if it takes Dalek 2 extra minutes to get

752
00:34:01.019 --> 00:34:01.259
to.

753
00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:02.279
It's still gonna shoot you.

754
00:34:02.339 --> 00:34:05.220
I actually think it's probably just because, say, would likes to

755
00:34:05.220 --> 00:34:08.760
see lots of scenes of people shooting at each other with guns, you

756
00:34:08.760 --> 00:34:12.960
know, and that's cheaper to do with people in funny hats than it

757
00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:13.980
is to do with daleks.

758
00:34:14.099 --> 00:34:14.639
Oh, yeah.

759
00:34:14.699 --> 00:34:19.440
Maurice Cobb famously refused to wear the Dalek helmet unless

760
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:22.860
absolutely necessary because as he points out, it looks like it.

761
00:34:23.099 --> 00:34:27.420
It looks like, yes, it looks like a very naughty Darth Vader

762
00:34:27.420 --> 00:34:28.500
convention, doesn't it?

763
00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:29.159
that's right.

764
00:34:29.219 --> 00:34:32.099
Yeah, well, you know, Nathan Turner saw them and said, no, get

765
00:34:32.099 --> 00:34:34.860
them off. get him off and everyone misunderstood his intention.

766
00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:38.940
Well, they thought he was just looking forward to Planet of Fire.

767
00:34:39.900 --> 00:34:43.019
I really like Maurice Colbin's performance.

768
00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:45.900
I like Rodney Boo's performance. think the cast is very strong in

769
00:34:45.900 --> 00:34:46.079
this.

770
00:34:46.139 --> 00:34:49.739
Um, they get they get, I think, 2 lines together, those 2, and

771
00:34:49.739 --> 00:34:53.159
it's, there's a rather brilliant moment where Rodney Boos turns to

772
00:34:53.159 --> 00:34:55.199
wait and says, well, what, what about when it's your turn?

773
00:34:55.320 --> 00:34:59.820
And that kind of starts his rebellious thinking and he escapes at

774
00:34:59.820 --> 00:35:00.239
the end.

775
00:35:00.300 --> 00:35:02.340
And we see him escape at the end.

776
00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:05.940
It's going to create a continuity problem next time because he has

777
00:35:05.940 --> 00:35:09.599
not shared a single word with the doctor.

778
00:35:09.659 --> 00:35:10.619
They never speak.

779
00:35:10.679 --> 00:35:14.460
The doctor just gives inside eye at one and then Lytton tries to

780
00:35:14.460 --> 00:35:16.739
shoot him, just as he's getting away, just because he sees

781
00:35:16.739 --> 00:35:20.159
movement, not for any particular reason, but we're getting ahead

782
00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:20.579
of ourselves.

783
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:24.239
One of the cast member who we haven't mentioned is Les Grantham

784
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:27.539
who was mentored by Louise Jameson.

785
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:30.179
Yes, when he started after, while he was in presume.

786
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:33.300
Well, he was, and while he was knocked up, so to speak.

787
00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:36.599
He was offered Galloway as well, but he wanted the character that

788
00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:37.559
was on screen more often.

789
00:35:37.619 --> 00:35:39.119
I think he's suitably menacing.

790
00:35:39.179 --> 00:35:40.079
Yes, absolutely.

791
00:35:40.139 --> 00:35:41.820
He's no nider, though, is he?

792
00:35:41.880 --> 00:35:44.940
No, no, but the thing is, he's not meant to, because Nider had his

793
00:35:44.940 --> 00:35:45.599
own intelligence.

794
00:35:45.659 --> 00:35:47.699
I had the whole world.

795
00:35:48.360 --> 00:35:53.820
Kiston Kiston is taken over a few minutes after we meet him, you

796
00:35:53.820 --> 00:35:56.219
know, and until then he just seems like, you know, a bit of a

797
00:35:56.219 --> 00:35:58.679
job's worth mechanic.

798
00:35:58.739 --> 00:35:59.880
That's all he is.

799
00:35:59.940 --> 00:36:01.199
Bit of rough.

800
00:36:01.260 --> 00:36:04.980
He is, of course, famous for being Dirty Dan on EastEnders.

801
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:06.539
Brilliant in it too.

802
00:36:06.599 --> 00:36:10.079
I haven't seen that since the 90s, but he's, he really did capture

803
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:11.400
that whole Houston film.

804
00:36:11.400 --> 00:36:12.900
Yeah. style.

805
00:36:12.900 --> 00:36:15.300
That's Verdi Lambert, actually, the, you know, the Sweeney and

806
00:36:15.300 --> 00:36:17.519
special branch and minder.

807
00:36:17.579 --> 00:36:20.460
And as Richard mentioned earlier, he was in prison.

808
00:36:20.460 --> 00:36:22.559
And this is something we...

809
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:23.760
By Louise Jamison, yeah.

810
00:36:23.820 --> 00:36:26.159
Um, he, um...

811
00:36:26.280 --> 00:36:31.079
He was in Germany and whilst he was drunk, he killed a taxi driver

812
00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:33.059
and was in prison for murder.

813
00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:36.300
Louise Jameson was teaching acting in the prison.

814
00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:41.760
And and saw his talent and sort of worked with him when he got

815
00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:42.059
out.

816
00:36:42.059 --> 00:36:45.539
She actually suggested him to John Nathan Turner.

817
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:46.980
I know this, I know this young actor.

818
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:48.719
I think he'd be really good for this role.

819
00:36:48.780 --> 00:36:53.460
And he's talked about some the murder quite openly in interviews

820
00:36:53.460 --> 00:36:56.639
and how how stupid he was and how much he regrets it, and of

821
00:36:56.639 --> 00:36:58.500
course, as you would.

822
00:36:58.559 --> 00:37:00.659
Well, we've all taken an Uber.

823
00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:01.739
I think we can...

824
00:37:01.800 --> 00:37:02.699
Yeah, that's right.

825
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:09.780
But yeah, so that is for anyone who didn't know Les Grantham's

826
00:37:09.780 --> 00:37:12.420
story that this was his 1st TV role.

827
00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:16.260
He's, he's, I think he's great, super menacing, and also he's got

828
00:37:16.260 --> 00:37:22.980
that cringing, shoulder shrugging nation, Decensian character of

829
00:37:22.980 --> 00:37:25.739
you know, of the 2nd lieutenant of the 2nd baddie.

830
00:37:25.800 --> 00:37:27.599
There's always there's always, he knows he's going to cop a

831
00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:27.900
smack.

832
00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:29.639
Who was sick?

833
00:37:29.699 --> 00:37:34.619
Yeah, so Ian Roberts inhabited a similar role in Superman Returns

834
00:37:34.619 --> 00:37:35.820
if we remember that film.

835
00:37:35.880 --> 00:37:37.500
Oh, he was the Les Grantham all the time.

836
00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:38.699
Yeah, I have never seen it.

837
00:37:38.699 --> 00:37:39.300
The Man of Returns.

838
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:42.059
I'm not a shot at Wynyard Station at Martin Place.

839
00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:43.320
This entire film.

840
00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:45.719
It has Parker Posey, whom we now own.

841
00:37:45.780 --> 00:37:46.500
Yes.

842
00:37:46.500 --> 00:37:47.579
Many times over.

843
00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:49.199
Should we spoil alert?

844
00:37:49.260 --> 00:37:49.739
Yeah, go on.

845
00:37:49.739 --> 00:37:50.579
Lost in space.

846
00:37:50.639 --> 00:37:52.079
She's going to be Dr. Smith.

847
00:37:52.139 --> 00:37:56.099
The reboot Netflix lost in space. can't wait.

848
00:37:56.159 --> 00:38:00.300
Oh, and Moffat did it first. you're right Apparently it's been

849
00:38:00.300 --> 00:38:02.579
confirmed that Michelle Yeo is going to be the captain of Star

850
00:38:02.579 --> 00:38:03.300
Trek Discovery.

851
00:38:03.420 --> 00:38:08.219
Yeah, yeah, so I'm expecting cousin Michelle to invite me, you

852
00:38:08.219 --> 00:38:10.920
know, on board the bridge and let me sit in the captain's chair

853
00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:12.360
and press some buttons.

854
00:38:12.420 --> 00:38:13.320
It's not a chair anymore.

855
00:38:13.380 --> 00:38:15.480
It's a motorbike and she sits on it backwards.

856
00:38:15.539 --> 00:38:17.400
With Pierce Bros.

857
00:38:17.460 --> 00:38:18.300
Oh, God, no, no.

858
00:38:18.360 --> 00:38:20.639
Pierce Brosnan's just wearing a rubber latix.

859
00:38:20.639 --> 00:38:23.280
He is just... ripped for his pleasure face mask.

860
00:38:23.340 --> 00:38:25.500
We don't actually see that it's, he's, yeah.

861
00:38:26.219 --> 00:38:29.760
I don't know why we're so harsh on Eric Seyward when there's

862
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:31.019
always Pierce Brosnan.

863
00:38:31.320 --> 00:38:35.219
I don't know, maybe Eric Saywood could have sung in Mamma Mia.

864
00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:38.159
One thing we've happened...

865
00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:40.500
Or Wind and the Willows is toad. just those lips.

866
00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:43.019
Can you imagine kissing Eric?

867
00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:44.039
Stiletto.

868
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:50.340
I've just had a picture of he and John Nathan Turner exercising

869
00:38:50.340 --> 00:38:53.940
control conflict in the closed doors of Nathan Turner's office.

870
00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:55.079
I think that would have been very interesting.

871
00:38:55.139 --> 00:38:56.940
Gary Downey.

872
00:38:56.940 --> 00:39:02.579
Creative use of a script of worries of the deep episode for...

873
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:06.000
One thing we've only sort of briefly touched upon and we should

874
00:39:06.000 --> 00:39:09.179
dedicate a bit more time to is, of course, this is Tegan's final

875
00:39:09.179 --> 00:39:09.539
story.

876
00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:11.280
Yeah, exactly.

877
00:39:11.340 --> 00:39:16.619
I think we need to Yeah, um, I believe Peter, Janet and Mark were

878
00:39:16.619 --> 00:39:18.840
actually contracted for the full year, but it was decided rather

879
00:39:18.840 --> 00:39:20.039
than everyone leave it once.

880
00:39:20.099 --> 00:39:23.340
They'd stagger it so everyone actually got a decent leaving

881
00:39:23.340 --> 00:39:23.760
scene.

882
00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:25.800
She apparently quit before Pete.

883
00:39:25.860 --> 00:39:28.260
She was the 1st one to hand in the resignation.

884
00:39:28.320 --> 00:39:30.840
I just think they're all standing around on terminus thing because

885
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:31.860
she's right, isn't she?

886
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:33.300
Really?

887
00:39:33.420 --> 00:39:35.880
I think, and I think actually that was the point, wasn't it?

888
00:39:35.940 --> 00:39:37.380
Yeah, well, then they decided, yeah.

889
00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:38.400
That was the point.

890
00:39:38.460 --> 00:39:41.460
I believe it was the production alternatus where Peter had to

891
00:39:41.460 --> 00:39:42.659
decide, are you doing year 4?

892
00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:45.000
And he said, No.

893
00:39:45.059 --> 00:39:47.880
I mean, Janet is a bloody tour de force in this, which is amazing

894
00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:49.619
because she's in bed for 2 episodes.

895
00:39:49.739 --> 00:39:53.519
I actually don't think she gets anywhere near enough to do.

896
00:39:53.699 --> 00:39:55.559
And...

897
00:39:55.679 --> 00:39:59.760
Well, even even towards the end, in sort of episode four, she does

898
00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:04.559
her sort of usual I'm annoyed with Pete kind of eye rolling thing

899
00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:05.460
which I really love.

900
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:06.960
It's one of my favourite things about her.

901
00:40:07.019 --> 00:40:10.739
But it doesn't look like she's being affected by what she's seen

902
00:40:10.739 --> 00:40:13.500
even after, you know, Chloe Ashcroft gets killed.

903
00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:15.000
She gets to react to that.

904
00:40:15.059 --> 00:40:18.360
But I think that that final scene, which I think is beautifully

905
00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:21.179
acted and brilliant and it does do what you say, it does reach

906
00:40:21.179 --> 00:40:21.539
it.

907
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:23.519
It critiques the previous production.

908
00:40:23.579 --> 00:40:26.039
I think it comes out of nowhere a bit.

909
00:40:26.099 --> 00:40:29.460
Well, I mean, you've got that scene with the metal detecting guy

910
00:40:29.460 --> 00:40:34.380
on the river as well. and she's she's really, really distraught

911
00:40:34.380 --> 00:40:34.800
about that.

912
00:40:34.860 --> 00:40:36.539
I kind of think after she's drove back.

913
00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:38.880
She's being strong for Professor Laird.

914
00:40:38.940 --> 00:40:41.039
And she's like...

915
00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:41.760
Jenny to her mate.

916
00:40:41.820 --> 00:40:44.159
She's...

917
00:40:44.159 --> 00:40:45.360
Do you think she was?

918
00:40:45.420 --> 00:40:46.440
Jenny Laird?

919
00:40:46.500 --> 00:40:47.519
She, yeah.

920
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:50.940
It's weird when she goes up to the Dalek ship.

921
00:40:51.000 --> 00:40:54.179
Mercer's suddenly pointing a gun in her face and I think she's

922
00:40:54.179 --> 00:40:57.000
just like the reason she doesn't scream is she's just exhausted.

923
00:40:57.059 --> 00:40:59.099
It's 5 over years.

924
00:40:59.099 --> 00:41:00.179
Right now.

925
00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:03.659
It's the point of she's just like, this is it.

926
00:41:03.719 --> 00:41:06.480
I am literally out, like, with...

927
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:07.320
Just bit.

928
00:41:07.380 --> 00:41:11.699
And you get that wonderful bit with the continuing growth of the

929
00:41:11.699 --> 00:41:14.519
character of Turlow when he says it's Tegan, you idiot.

930
00:41:14.579 --> 00:41:16.860
She's a friend and just his voice lowers.

931
00:41:16.920 --> 00:41:20.340
And again, he's unlike, say last year, he's not trying to impress

932
00:41:20.340 --> 00:41:20.880
anyone.

933
00:41:20.940 --> 00:41:22.199
That is a genuine comment.

934
00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:25.679
There's actually a deleted bit to that scene, which I'm so glad

935
00:41:25.679 --> 00:41:26.280
they cut out.

936
00:41:26.340 --> 00:41:31.019
It's on the DVD when when Tegan says, oh, the doctor must be here

937
00:41:31.019 --> 00:41:32.519
look behind you on points at the TARDIS.

938
00:41:32.880 --> 00:41:34.860
The scene cuts there.

939
00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:38.820
The extended version, Turlo, tries to go into the time corridor

940
00:41:38.820 --> 00:41:40.079
and Tegan says, Turlo.

941
00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:43.500
And I'm so glad they cut that because that's Turlo running away

942
00:41:43.500 --> 00:41:46.019
after he's just done something really quite nice and heroic.

943
00:41:46.079 --> 00:41:46.800
Yes, yes, yes.

944
00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:49.079
No, end the scene there. and then he continues.

945
00:41:49.139 --> 00:41:51.900
Yeah, it was a really good choice of the director to cut that.

946
00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:57.239
But I always cry when I watch Tegan's departure.

947
00:41:57.360 --> 00:42:00.719
And I know I've said, I think it's a reaction to the doctor trying

948
00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:01.559
to kill Davros.

949
00:42:01.619 --> 00:42:05.579
But at the same time, she says she's not blaming the doctor and I

950
00:42:05.579 --> 00:42:09.239
believe in Janet's performance that Tegan, you know, doctor, it's

951
00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:11.099
not your fault, but this is what happens.

952
00:42:11.159 --> 00:42:12.659
It's the same reason Victoria left.

953
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:13.440
Yeah.

954
00:42:13.500 --> 00:42:16.139
And it's it's similarly played.

955
00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:20.579
And you also have, in this doctor and in Turlow, you have 2

956
00:42:20.579 --> 00:42:27.780
incredibly emotionally reserved characters who are just, They just

957
00:42:27.780 --> 00:42:29.820
shut down when Tegan.

958
00:42:29.940 --> 00:42:30.420
English.

959
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:31.139
Yeah.

960
00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:34.380
They just shut down when Tegan says she's leaving, like Turlo

961
00:42:34.380 --> 00:42:36.659
almost falls over to say goodbye to her.

962
00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:38.760
Like he makes his way forward and runs into something.

963
00:42:38.820 --> 00:42:40.739
I like his awkwardness, actually.

964
00:42:40.800 --> 00:42:42.000
Yeah, he's physical awkwardness.

965
00:42:42.059 --> 00:42:42.659
It's really good.

966
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:44.159
The Roger Moore school of life.

967
00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:49.679
You know, you counteract that with Tegan starts running off and it

968
00:42:49.679 --> 00:42:52.440
takes the doctor about 5 seconds to suddenly snap out of it and

969
00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:54.599
call out to her and she's like, no, no, I can't.

970
00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:56.340
Not in these hales.

971
00:42:56.760 --> 00:42:59.699
Yeah, Brendan knows what she's suffering.

972
00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:01.320
It's like...

973
00:43:01.320 --> 00:43:01.980
He's wearing them now.

974
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:08.280
It's like a, it's kind of like a really bad breakup where she kind

975
00:43:08.280 --> 00:43:11.519
of wants to go back, but she knows it's the wrong thing.

976
00:43:11.579 --> 00:43:12.539
Well, she does.

977
00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:13.980
I mean it does look like she's turning back.

978
00:43:14.039 --> 00:43:15.599
That's you do sort of read it.

979
00:43:15.659 --> 00:43:16.980
She's only just decided to leave.

980
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:20.940
But when she says it's no fun anymore. just think she's right.

981
00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:25.260
This is a character who doesn't want to risk being in another Eric

982
00:43:25.260 --> 00:43:29.280
Saywood story and so she's off and who could blame him?

983
00:43:29.340 --> 00:43:36.719
Again, I'm fully on her side, but I think that it's too easier

984
00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:37.500
reading.

985
00:43:37.559 --> 00:43:41.039
It's, it's kind of too solubstic a reason reading to just say that

986
00:43:41.039 --> 00:43:43.500
this is a violent show that's about violence.

987
00:43:43.559 --> 00:43:46.260
I don't even say Wod was not that heavy hand.

988
00:43:46.320 --> 00:43:49.559
I think he might become that heavy-handed in future though.

989
00:43:49.619 --> 00:43:52.500
There will be another season that I won't be here to talk about, so

990
00:43:52.500 --> 00:43:54.300
I'll leave that to my good friend Todd.

991
00:43:54.360 --> 00:43:56.639
Todd and I have a similar take and it'll be interesting to hear

992
00:43:56.639 --> 00:44:00.300
his opinions when we get to the final of this season on what we

993
00:44:00.300 --> 00:44:02.820
think of Davison's pulling away.

994
00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:08.219
If you're looking at how he reacts to Chameleon, who, even though

995
00:44:08.219 --> 00:44:10.800
we don't see him, he's, I thought it's supposed to be a

996
00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:11.280
companion.

997
00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:12.960
He's certainly treated like that.

998
00:44:13.019 --> 00:44:17.699
So I think that he's his dealings with with companions and and the

999
00:44:17.699 --> 00:44:23.340
loss of them. has not, I think, been a great scoring point in his

1000
00:44:23.340 --> 00:44:24.420
favour so far.

1001
00:44:37.860 --> 00:44:41.760
Nathan is breathing a sign of relief, dear listeners, as that's

1002
00:44:41.760 --> 00:44:44.460
all the time we have for Eric Saywood's murder spree this week.

1003
00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:46.860
I know, we ate cake, but we didn't talk about it because it just

1004
00:44:46.860 --> 00:44:47.460
sounded too fun.

1005
00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:51.420
Richard did bring us some lovely cakes from the Black Star bakery

1006
00:44:51.420 --> 00:44:52.199
so thanks. you, Richard.

1007
00:44:52.260 --> 00:44:54.480
Yes, from the David Bowie Memorial Baker.

1008
00:44:55.019 --> 00:44:56.880
He's dead too.

1009
00:44:57.239 --> 00:44:59.579
Like Florence Henderson.

1010
00:44:59.880 --> 00:45:02.760
The entire cast of remembrance.

1011
00:45:02.820 --> 00:45:03.840
No, hang on.

1012
00:45:03.900 --> 00:45:05.159
What was this one we just did?

1013
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:09.480
We will be back next week to talk about a bunch of knickers in

1014
00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:12.599
Lanzarote for Planet of Fire, so do come back for that.

1015
00:45:12.659 --> 00:45:14.099
Nicholas for Christmas.

1016
00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:16.079
Oh, over on Bondfinger.

1017
00:45:16.139 --> 00:45:19.320
Sadly, due to Christmas, we haven't been able to release our view

1018
00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:21.900
to a kill. just don't think we want Roger to leave.

1019
00:45:21.960 --> 00:45:23.639
I can't do it.

1020
00:45:23.699 --> 00:45:26.280
Because inevitably we'll have to get to beer.

1021
00:45:26.519 --> 00:45:30.119
But we do have all of our...

1022
00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:34.739
We do have all of our Sean Connery commentaries up there, including

1023
00:45:34.739 --> 00:45:38.639
Never Say Never Again, the David Neven Classic Casino Royale, and

1024
00:45:38.639 --> 00:45:43.139
the 1st 6 Rogimore films on Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook

1025
00:45:43.139 --> 00:45:45.659
and iTunes, and Bondfinger cast on Twitter.

1026
00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:49.079
Until next time, may none of your megalomaniac farts melt your

1027
00:45:49.079 --> 00:45:49.619
face off.

1028
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:50.760
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1029
00:45:50.820 --> 00:45:51.599
Good night.

1030
00:45:51.659 --> 00:45:52.619
I just dropped the mic.

1031
00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:53.099
Good night.

1032
00:45:57.719 --> 00:46:01.559
That was Flight Through Entirety with Nathan Bottomley, Brendan

1033
00:46:01.559 --> 00:46:02.639
Jones, and Richard Stone.

1034
00:46:02.699 --> 00:46:04.860
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1035
00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:08.159
This episode, Pointy at the Back, was recorded on the 26th of

1036
00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:09.239
November 2016.

1037
00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:11.760
The next episode will be released on December 18th.

1038
00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:16.440
Do you like wearing rubber uniforms and phallic helmets, then join

1039
00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:20.219
the bipedal Dalek Defence Force, and see really tiny cramped parts

1040
00:46:20.219 --> 00:46:20.760
of the universe.

1041
00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:27.480
Have you watched any more of class?

1042
00:46:27.599 --> 00:46:29.280
I watched the 1st episode.

1043
00:46:29.340 --> 00:46:33.179
And it's kind of the whole torture thing of, oh, I can see this is

1044
00:46:33.179 --> 00:46:33.900
very competently made.

1045
00:46:34.619 --> 00:46:36.420
What of what?

1046
00:46:36.420 --> 00:46:38.159
I really like it.

1047
00:46:38.219 --> 00:46:39.360
What did you think?

1048
00:46:39.539 --> 00:46:41.880
Um, it was a lot better than I was expecting it to be.

1049
00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:46.860
And it's certainly, it's certainly not as, say, smug as Buffy

1050
00:46:46.860 --> 00:46:49.199
because one thing that always put me off with Buffy was, everyone's

1051
00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:49.619
so smart.

1052
00:46:49.679 --> 00:46:51.539
It's like, no, no teenagers actually act like this.

1053
00:46:51.599 --> 00:46:53.099
They're not that cool.

1054
00:46:53.159 --> 00:46:56.400
No, they were TV writer versions of teenagers, you know, like they

1055
00:46:56.400 --> 00:46:56.820
were.

1056
00:46:56.940 --> 00:46:57.960
It was very guilful.

1057
00:46:58.260 --> 00:47:03.420
One thing I'm on the fence about is Charlie, who is the alien

1058
00:47:03.420 --> 00:47:04.739
being the gay character.

1059
00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:08.039
It's like, okay, I really like that we have a gay character in a

1060
00:47:08.039 --> 00:47:10.739
primetime TV series and he doesn't make a big deal out of it, but

1061
00:47:10.739 --> 00:47:12.659
actually that doesn't represent our struggle at all.

1062
00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:14.400
Make the seat character game.

1063
00:47:14.460 --> 00:47:18.900
Well, I kind of, I like the fact that, well, Matusa's is...

1064
00:47:18.960 --> 00:47:20.340
Yeah, true.

1065
00:47:20.400 --> 00:47:24.780
And the delicious table wine. much beloved by teenagers, I hear.

1066
00:47:26.579 --> 00:47:30.900
Yes, and I, I, actually, I think he was probably my favourite

1067
00:47:30.900 --> 00:47:32.159
character in the 1st episode.

1068
00:47:32.219 --> 00:47:34.199
They gave him a lot of funny lines, like...

1069
00:47:34.199 --> 00:47:35.940
You watch Rambino.

1070
00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:37.019
Everyone's very attractive.

1071
00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:37.679
It is true.

1072
00:47:38.639 --> 00:47:43.380
I like the idea that Charlie chooses Mateo's, not because

1073
00:47:43.380 --> 00:47:47.699
Charlie's gay, but because he doesn't realise that most people

1074
00:47:47.699 --> 00:47:50.760
choose someone of the opposite gender to take to the prom and he

1075
00:47:50.760 --> 00:47:53.340
just doesn't kind of, because he's, he's an alien.

1076
00:47:53.400 --> 00:47:56.280
But that's what I mean by it's not really too aggressive because

1077
00:47:56.280 --> 00:47:59.099
he doesn't have to struggle. and it's safe and the parents go, oh

1078
00:47:59.099 --> 00:47:59.760
it's...

1079
00:47:59.760 --> 00:48:02.159
But it does mean at least you do get, you know, gay kissing and

1080
00:48:02.159 --> 00:48:04.019
other things on telling.

1081
00:48:07.739 --> 00:48:10.199
Actually, no, naming gays?

1082
00:48:10.260 --> 00:48:10.920
No, that's now.

1083
00:48:10.920 --> 00:48:14.940
And I'm a huge fan of both Tanya and Ram.

1084
00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:16.199
I think they're great characters.

1085
00:48:16.260 --> 00:48:18.300
And April is getting good as well.

1086
00:48:18.360 --> 00:48:19.260
Actually, yeah.

1087
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:24.119
Everyone's really well skipped.

1088
00:48:24.179 --> 00:48:24.960
It's a class podcast.

1089
00:48:25.019 --> 00:48:28.199
Well, it's going to be ages before we ever talk about...

1090
00:48:28.260 --> 00:48:31.320
It's going to be called everyone's very attractive. everyone's

1091
00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:31.920
very attractive.

1092
00:48:31.980 --> 00:48:34.500
Hello and welcome to everyone's very attractive.

1093
00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:37.199
That's the other thing. and Rod Ray is this with me.

1094
00:48:37.260 --> 00:48:40.679
It's like, oh, look, it's a primetime drama and everyone has a 26

1095
00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:42.059
to 28 inch waste.

1096
00:48:42.119 --> 00:48:42.599
Yeah.

1097
00:48:42.659 --> 00:48:43.980
Wow.

1098
00:48:43.980 --> 00:48:47.219
That's exactly why I keep watching.

1099
00:48:47.280 --> 00:48:50.460
Everything I'm watching sort of was made before 97 at the moment.