WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:50:03 1 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:33.659 Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety. 2 00:00:33.719 --> 00:00:38.039 The only Doctor Who podcast who very happily be adopted by Howard Foster. 3 00:00:38.100 --> 00:00:38.759 I'm Brendan. 4 00:00:38.820 --> 00:00:48.179 I'm Nathan I'm an interstellar signalling, possibly Greek relic of a very shiny and potentially platinum-based material, but it's certainly looking rude. 5 00:00:49.799 --> 00:00:52.020 It's Planet of Fire. 6 00:01:19.079 --> 00:01:23.459 Well, we've all been branding each other for this podcast, and with my God, doesn't it hurt? 7 00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:24.180 Really? 8 00:01:24.239 --> 00:01:26.400 How long did it take you to get through this one? 9 00:01:26.459 --> 00:01:29.400 In fact, I watched it all last night in one sitting. 10 00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:30.180 Me too. 11 00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:33.299 And I had to do the director's cut because I was assured it was shorter. 12 00:01:33.359 --> 00:01:35.519 I'm very excited to be back on the planet Khan. 13 00:01:35.579 --> 00:01:36.599 Oh, hang on, son. 14 00:01:36.659 --> 00:01:37.920 Hang on, Khan. 15 00:01:37.980 --> 00:01:41.819 Isn't this a remake of Spa Bath of Morpius? 16 00:01:41.879 --> 00:01:44.099 I mean, you know, we've got a lovely big licking flame. 17 00:01:44.159 --> 00:01:47.099 We've got Anthony Ainley doing his Edward Woodwood, wouldn't you? 18 00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:51.180 Got Peter Wingard as the leader of the sisterhood? 19 00:01:51.239 --> 00:01:54.239 Oh, we actually do, and this is the point. 20 00:01:54.299 --> 00:01:56.519 I believe he was the mother all the time. 21 00:01:56.579 --> 00:02:02.400 Now, we're never allowed to have Kenneth Williams and Doctor Who, but it almost doesn't matter because we have Peter Wingard. 22 00:02:02.459 --> 00:02:05.939 I think he's actually one of the best actors to ever appear. 23 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:10.319 He gives great gravitas to this performance, and my goodness, doesn't he? 24 00:02:10.379 --> 00:02:13.259 Doesn't he languor and savour his lines? 25 00:02:13.379 --> 00:02:14.639 smell con. 26 00:02:14.699 --> 00:02:16.319 Do you know he? 27 00:02:16.379 --> 00:02:16.919 You're right. 28 00:02:16.979 --> 00:02:18.300 You are the chosen one. 29 00:02:18.360 --> 00:02:18.840 You know that. 30 00:02:19.199 --> 00:02:23.219 He reminds me of Jackie Hill's character from Megloss. 31 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:24.000 Oh, Alexa. 32 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:28.860 Yeah, because she's like the intransigent religious leader. playing the same thing. 33 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:31.439 Yeah, I think it's simply because he looked at that and he said, right. 34 00:02:31.500 --> 00:02:33.180 Jackie can do it. 35 00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:34.319 Yeah, yeah. 36 00:02:34.379 --> 00:02:37.139 I remember at the time saying that I thought... 37 00:02:37.139 --> 00:02:38.219 Interchangeable, aren't they? 38 00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:39.360 Jacqueline Hillen. 39 00:02:39.419 --> 00:02:45.840 Peter Wingard, can you imagine if Billy had had Peter Wingard in the Barbara role right from the start? 40 00:02:45.900 --> 00:02:51.060 We may not have been doing this podcast with alternative reality. 41 00:02:51.180 --> 00:02:53.520 We've seen his hair in Jason King. 42 00:02:53.580 --> 00:02:54.419 It's not that far. 43 00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:55.379 No that is true. 44 00:02:55.439 --> 00:02:56.939 That is really cool. 45 00:02:57.000 --> 00:02:57.960 Do you know what I watched last night? 46 00:02:58.020 --> 00:02:59.280 I took over Jason King. 47 00:02:59.340 --> 00:03:03.060 Do the do the dear listeners know who Peter Wingard where Peter Wingard comes from? 48 00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:04.680 Should we just quickly gloss over that now? 49 00:03:04.740 --> 00:03:10.020 Because, again, we've gone back to our usual state after it. having dealt with Eric Saywood in the last one? 50 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:21.060 So we're onto this lovely Peter Grimwade written script that was actually all about counterreligious diatride and say we'd cut most of it out so that it would be palatable. 51 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:23.219 Which is why Grim Wade refused to write for the show again. 52 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:26.520 So he was banned from directing and then banned himself from writing. 53 00:03:26.580 --> 00:03:29.879 But we still get flavours of it with Timonoff. 54 00:03:29.939 --> 00:03:30.300 Yeah. 55 00:03:30.360 --> 00:03:37.860 I mean, it's a fairly tired trope, and it's not like we haven't seen it before, as I said, Meglos in Meglos. 56 00:03:37.919 --> 00:03:40.199 Lex's character is the same. 57 00:03:40.259 --> 00:03:41.520 She's a religious leader. 58 00:03:41.580 --> 00:03:42.900 She wants to sacrifice people. 59 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:51.479 There are more rational people on her planet who kind of patronise her and don't really listen to her and she's sort of very fervent. 60 00:03:51.539 --> 00:03:53.460 Timonov's kind of the same. 61 00:03:53.520 --> 00:04:02.159 He's manipulable and gullible in the eyes of the other characters because they're all just able to say, you know, Loga is expressing his disapproval or whatever. 62 00:04:02.219 --> 00:04:07.680 But he has such truthiness in his performance and really hurdles his air. 63 00:04:07.740 --> 00:04:17.519 Well, both Lexa and Timonov have a kind of nobility, which is, I think, brought to the characters by the actors rather than being in the script. 64 00:04:17.579 --> 00:04:23.579 He does it without a Diana Dawes wig and, you know, I think he probably has a Diana Dawes wig under that headdress. 65 00:04:23.639 --> 00:04:25.740 John does give great all-round performances. 66 00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:37.019 The press at the time said he was underused in this and that it was a welcome return, which should just say Pittowing Guard started in shows like The Avengers, in one of our favourite episodes, A Touch of Brimstone. 67 00:04:37.079 --> 00:04:40.019 He then appeared in shows like The Champions. 68 00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:51.060 He then got his own feature in a 3 character riding department S, which was a sort of like strange things investigated by a writer and agent and a Gil called Annabelle with a phoney French accent. 69 00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:52.800 It's one of my favourite ITC shows. 70 00:04:52.860 --> 00:04:59.040 He then went on to Jason King, which was apparently Ronnie Corbett's favourite show to Lampoon. 71 00:04:59.100 --> 00:05:00.060 He did it several times. 72 00:05:00.120 --> 00:05:04.920 We watched Jason King last night in preparation for this podcast myself and some friends. 73 00:05:04.980 --> 00:05:10.620 And I have to say that the 70s really is the Roman Empire, it's a 1000 years ago. 74 00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:11.459 It makes no sense. 75 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:15.779 But Wingard, Wingard is point perfect in everything he does. 76 00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:17.040 And it's really old school. 77 00:05:17.160 --> 00:05:19.500 He was the pert we all the time in the bigger medium. 78 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:21.060 And when he came to Australia. 79 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:25.319 He had the same amount of mobbing that the Beatles had in 72. 80 00:05:25.500 --> 00:05:30.060 Is his look the basis for the look of Mike Myers character? 81 00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:30.959 Yes, yes. 82 00:05:31.019 --> 00:05:32.220 Yes, and Davos's mask. 83 00:05:32.279 --> 00:05:33.180 Yeah. 84 00:05:33.240 --> 00:05:40.800 Now, a misconception that I had coming into this story, but I looked into it, as I understood it. 85 00:05:40.860 --> 00:05:43.800 This was his 1st role on TV in a while. 86 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:48.600 Yeah, since his archeological interest in British cottages ended his career, yeah. 87 00:05:48.660 --> 00:05:51.899 Well, nowadays you just get a whole album covers. 88 00:05:51.959 --> 00:05:55.740 You've got a recording contract for doing it, George Michael. 89 00:05:56.100 --> 00:06:03.540 He actually went over to Europe to work in theatre for about 7 years and... 90 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:06.540 Well, the thing is, he only came back because he got this job offer. 91 00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:08.279 He said in a later interview. 92 00:06:08.399 --> 00:06:09.720 Oh, no, I was perfectly happy over there. 93 00:06:09.779 --> 00:06:11.040 If they didn't want me, I don't care. 94 00:06:11.100 --> 00:06:16.439 I got work over here, but I got an offer to work on Doctor Who, and it was in Lanzarote, who's going to say no to that. 95 00:06:16.500 --> 00:06:21.720 And then he saw Highgrove and thought, oh, it's not just a house what royals live in. could move in there as well. 96 00:06:21.899 --> 00:06:25.319 These days he actually looks a lot like Ben Kingsley. 97 00:06:25.379 --> 00:06:27.660 Is he still? 98 00:06:27.660 --> 00:06:28.439 No, no. 99 00:06:28.500 --> 00:06:30.240 I was talking about Malcong. 100 00:06:30.300 --> 00:06:31.800 Peter Wing. 101 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:32.879 I think that is still with us. 102 00:06:32.939 --> 00:06:36.899 He is quite wondrous and does commentary. and he's truly fruity. 103 00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:38.459 Yes, yes, very. 104 00:06:38.519 --> 00:06:40.860 He was Alan Bates's partner for over 20 years. 105 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:43.379 Alan Bates and the go-between all those other things. 106 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:43.740 Yeah, yeah. 107 00:06:43.800 --> 00:06:45.360 And it was a very open secret in the UK. 108 00:06:45.420 --> 00:06:47.879 So I'm really shocked that his career was ended. 109 00:06:47.939 --> 00:06:58.139 But again, if you're the number one lady swoon. and you're then caught, you know, taking inside legs in gentlemen's conveniences without warming your tape first. 110 00:06:58.620 --> 00:07:05.459 I think we're having go to have a lot more fun on this podcast here, listener, than we had on last week's Resurrection, which was anything but, wasn't it? 111 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:08.220 It was really an internment, entombment of the Diaks. 112 00:07:08.339 --> 00:07:09.839 Well, I think the... 113 00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:10.680 It should have been in that though. 114 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:12.300 Why isn't he playing Deveros? 115 00:07:12.360 --> 00:07:14.519 Well, why wasn't he playing Beryl Reed in that story? 116 00:07:14.579 --> 00:07:16.680 I mean, you know, Midway story? 117 00:07:16.740 --> 00:07:17.519 does, doesn't he? 118 00:07:17.579 --> 00:07:19.319 That story could have used a barrel reed. 119 00:07:19.379 --> 00:07:23.819 Oh, while we were on senior women who are perhaps not quite well as treated as they should have been. 120 00:07:23.879 --> 00:07:25.259 Barbara Shelley. 121 00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:31.019 We've got Barbara, we've got Venus, as in from Venus with love, this season opener for the colour rig. 122 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:33.899 Totally underused in this. 123 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:36.180 And she's the only woman on the entire planet. 124 00:07:36.300 --> 00:07:36.720 Exactly. 125 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:38.699 She's like Smurfett. isn't she? 126 00:07:38.699 --> 00:07:39.360 Smurf. 127 00:07:39.420 --> 00:07:41.100 She's lady wallpaper smurfette. 128 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:41.399 Thank you. 129 00:07:41.459 --> 00:07:41.759 Yes. 130 00:07:41.819 --> 00:07:43.920 What does she do, Brendan? 131 00:07:43.980 --> 00:07:49.379 Well, she seems to be the sort of den mother of the unbelievers. 132 00:07:49.439 --> 00:07:51.779 Now that's a t-shirt. 133 00:07:51.839 --> 00:07:52.620 She's good. 134 00:07:52.680 --> 00:07:54.779 I think I want that on my CV. 135 00:07:54.839 --> 00:07:58.740 I'd like to say about the sort of anti-religious element. 136 00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:10.740 I think Eric Saywood was right to turn it down because I think it's just balanced enough because if you had made it an extreme anti-religious polemic, you would have painted Timon off as the villain. 137 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:12.899 And I don't think Timinoff is a villain. 138 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:14.279 Timonoff is... 139 00:08:14.279 --> 00:08:15.120 Yeah, he's played too well. 140 00:08:15.240 --> 00:08:21.600 But yeah, it's also Eric Seyward's utter reluctance to say anything substantial or political in any of his stories. 141 00:08:21.660 --> 00:08:25.800 And so he's uncomfortable with anyone else doing anything thematic at all. 142 00:08:25.860 --> 00:08:33.240 The thing is, I think in downplaying it, it's actually more powerful, especially skipping to the end. 143 00:08:33.299 --> 00:08:35.159 Timonov's last scene. 144 00:08:35.220 --> 00:08:48.179 Armyand, who's played by James Bate, has been saying all the way along, Logar's a myth, and he actually has proof, and he comes in the guise of Logar, and... 145 00:08:48.179 --> 00:08:50.820 In a lovely tinfoil turkey wrap just in time for the season. 146 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:53.340 Timonov sort of has a bit of a chuckle about it. 147 00:08:53.399 --> 00:08:55.620 But then Armyand, who's been fighting with him all the time. 148 00:08:55.679 --> 00:08:59.580 Timon sentenced him to death at least 3 times over the course of the story. 149 00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:00.899 Amion says, look, come with us. 150 00:09:01.139 --> 00:09:02.820 We still need you. 151 00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:07.559 Yes, and there's that lovely line of maybe logo wanted you to be saved. 152 00:09:07.620 --> 00:09:08.340 Yeah, I like that too. 153 00:09:08.399 --> 00:09:09.120 It's gorgeous. 154 00:09:09.179 --> 00:09:10.919 He believes right until the end. 155 00:09:10.980 --> 00:09:17.039 And instead of tearing down that belief, Armyand allows him definitely. 156 00:09:17.100 --> 00:09:17.639 Yeah. 157 00:09:17.700 --> 00:09:20.879 I mean, it's kind of relevant in today's political climate. 158 00:09:20.940 --> 00:09:29.700 I was just going to say, it's a great way for the left to learn how to address the opposition, whatever colour that they choose to take, because we can be a little bit self-righteous, can't we? 159 00:09:29.759 --> 00:09:34.980 Yeah, and you can be right without tearing down the dignity of the other person. 160 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:43.740 But at the same time, Timonov's opinion does not and should not carry the same weight as Amian science. 161 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:48.299 And this is this is something that is in the political sphere a lot. 162 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:50.159 People saying, well, I've got a right to an opinion. 163 00:09:50.220 --> 00:09:55.620 And I read a great meme on it the other day, which is, okay, an opinion is whether you like coffee or tea. 164 00:09:55.679 --> 00:09:59.220 An opinion is not, I don't think black people are people. 165 00:09:59.639 --> 00:10:01.679 And that's the thing. 166 00:10:01.740 --> 00:10:05.100 Timonov here is kind of like unbelievers deserve to burn. 167 00:10:05.159 --> 00:10:12.600 Well, that doesn't quite have the same validity of opinion as, I think that what you think is a god is actually a technological thing. 168 00:10:12.659 --> 00:10:26.159 And the story doesn't bash us over the head with an answer for that saying, well, it kind of says, look, Timonov's wrong, but it presents it in such a way that you kind of go, well, you can understand why Timonov thought what he thought. 169 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:35.220 The issue is there's no arbiter between the 2 of them that can force Timonov to only accept rational beliefs. 170 00:10:35.340 --> 00:10:49.019 And so Turlo in particular, I think, reaches out to Timonoff, they all speak in terms of loga, and they all speak in terms of what Timonoff can contribute to the community. 171 00:10:49.080 --> 00:10:55.740 And I think all of that conciliation stuff isn't being spineless or it's not refusing to stand up for the truth. 172 00:10:55.799 --> 00:11:00.779 It's something pragmatic and something kind of kindly and something a bit empathetic. 173 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:08.820 And, you know, like, I think maybe this, we're kind of overinterpreting. what is slightly crapper than than we're making it sound. 174 00:11:08.879 --> 00:11:16.679 But I think there is something nice about the way that Timonoff is reintegrated into the community. 175 00:11:16.740 --> 00:11:22.080 Even though his belief system at the end has been largely defanged and defeated. 176 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:24.480 Well, he did want to set fire to people. 177 00:11:24.539 --> 00:11:26.220 Yeah, and that's wrong, Richard. 178 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:29.639 Yeah, we do want to make that clear to our listeners at home. 179 00:11:29.700 --> 00:11:31.259 Don't burn people. 180 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:33.360 We did cover that in the Awakening, didn't we? 181 00:11:33.419 --> 00:11:41.159 We're kind of like Willow should have been beheaded, but now we're being really nice about Tim and off because, I don't know, he's an archbishop in a rock. 182 00:11:41.220 --> 00:11:43.740 Yeah, he's great frog. 183 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:47.820 Well, you know, and he's far too ill to attend any inquiries or something. 184 00:11:47.879 --> 00:11:49.259 Anyway. 185 00:11:49.259 --> 00:12:00.539 I mean, on the topic of religion on a personal note, I grew up Roman Catholic, like Fulham baptised... 186 00:12:00.539 --> 00:12:01.019 Confirmed. 187 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:02.039 I was an altar boy. 188 00:12:02.879 --> 00:12:11.700 I sort of look back on that now and in my mind, with any religion, you have 2 groups in that religion. 189 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:15.480 You have the people who live that religion day to day and they live the messages of it. 190 00:12:15.539 --> 00:12:21.299 They don't necessarily refer back to their holy book and say, oh well, you know, I can only eat fish on this day. 191 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:23.940 Instead, they say, oh, this person is hungry. 192 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:26.279 I will give them food. whatever it is. 193 00:12:26.340 --> 00:12:29.340 And then you've got the people who say, oh, well, you can only eat fish on this day. 194 00:12:29.399 --> 00:12:31.320 Oh, but I'm allowed to have tattoos. 195 00:12:31.379 --> 00:12:32.220 No, we ignore that bit. 196 00:12:32.279 --> 00:12:44.279 And what I think this story is missing slightly is we have Timonov who is the high up in this religion, but we don't really see people living within the religion in a day-to-day life. 197 00:12:44.340 --> 00:12:47.700 All we know about this religion is if you don't believe in the religion, you get burned. 198 00:12:47.759 --> 00:12:49.320 But we don't know what the religion is. 199 00:12:49.379 --> 00:13:02.639 Well, you know, there's a sense in which, and we've been talking for a while, and we've been talking about this is if it's the main plot, but in fact, this is very clearly not the focus of the story. 200 00:13:02.700 --> 00:13:04.740 Yeah, actually this is just world building. 201 00:13:04.799 --> 00:13:10.379 Yeah, we spoke last week about the fact that we're about to have this big cast change. 202 00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:16.200 All 3 of the regular cast members are leaving one story at a time and that they've decided to stagger it. 203 00:13:16.259 --> 00:13:37.500 And so this is the story that writes out Turlow and Chameleon and Anthony Ainley's master, probably, it introduces Perry, and it puts into place a new show for Colin Baker to regenerate into at the end of the next story. 204 00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:39.120 Exactly. it's a soap. 205 00:13:39.179 --> 00:13:39.419 Come on. 206 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:43.139 And with Uncle Howard and with Perry arguing on the beach. 207 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:44.340 That's Dynasty or Dallas. 208 00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:46.799 Yeah, yeah. doing the accents, yeah. 209 00:13:46.860 --> 00:13:49.080 So it's much looser, you know. 210 00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:50.399 It looked very gorgeous. 211 00:13:50.460 --> 00:13:51.779 We need to say, okay. 212 00:13:51.840 --> 00:13:55.919 Most of it does look like a very exotic quarry, but at least we know it's not a quarry in the south of England. 213 00:13:55.980 --> 00:13:57.419 But it looks fantastic. 214 00:13:57.480 --> 00:14:00.539 It's really lovely And the performance is a great Dallas Adams. 215 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:02.460 I think it's just a breath of fresh everything. 216 00:14:02.519 --> 00:14:03.840 He's, I really like him. 217 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:05.279 Is they much younger than we expected? 218 00:14:05.340 --> 00:14:10.559 I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I love married to Dallas. 219 00:14:10.620 --> 00:14:21.720 Well, can I just say, this is the most sexually exploited introduction of a woman in Doctor Who in the history of everything, let alone an introduction, and it's directed by Fiona Cumming. 220 00:14:21.779 --> 00:14:22.379 Yes. 221 00:14:22.379 --> 00:14:28.200 This is my, you know, more curious creative thought of so far this season. 222 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:33.659 How does it sit with you that she, it's just artual libidness representation. 223 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:37.139 I've touched on Dallas and Dynasty because I know that's where it's coming from. 224 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:45.000 And it's also they're wanting to do now. you know, you know how Pete talked about wanting to do a bond send up and that he and Nicola would frock up for that. 225 00:14:45.059 --> 00:14:46.740 And he was actually a really big bond fan. 226 00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:47.399 He says. 227 00:14:47.460 --> 00:14:56.159 So maybe that's as close as he gets, was that, I don't know if the waistcoat actually contributes to that effect at all, but it really sits uncomfortably with me. 228 00:14:56.220 --> 00:15:18.659 I think the problem is this. that they're replacing a female lead who is independent and mouthy and clever and slightly obnoxious, and pretty, you know, like Tegan is very gorgeous, with someone who is constantly manhandled and pushed around by men. 229 00:15:18.779 --> 00:15:25.500 In this story, the master is constantly like actually physically grabbing her and dragging her around the place. 230 00:15:25.559 --> 00:15:34.559 Someone who is really sexualised and it doesn't start here because she's on the planet San where all the men are gay. 231 00:15:34.620 --> 00:15:41.700 And so she's and then spending time with her gay stepfather in Lanzarote. 232 00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:49.440 So she's not particularly sexualised here, except by the camera in that one shot where she's, and I had... 233 00:15:50.100 --> 00:15:50.879 There's not a lot left. 234 00:15:50.940 --> 00:15:53.159 Turo at least gets a chance. 235 00:15:53.220 --> 00:15:58.320 I mean, he could have actually just pumped her lungs on the beach, so to speak, he drags her back into the blue cupboard, doesn't he? 236 00:15:58.379 --> 00:15:58.740 Yeah. 237 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:03.720 You see, my memory was that that was actually the 1st shot we see of Nicola, but it isn't. 238 00:16:03.899 --> 00:16:05.700 The 1st shot is her arguing with Howard. 239 00:16:05.700 --> 00:16:07.620 She's wearing more clothes than him. 240 00:16:07.860 --> 00:16:11.639 If anyone in that scene is being sexualised. is. 241 00:16:11.700 --> 00:16:13.980 And if he's not, can he be? 242 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:30.539 But Vance Schott, where she's got the plastic bag full of staff, and she's wearing that bikini and the camera sort of starts on her crotch and then just kind of rapely, like as if Vasor is operating the camera. you know, crawls up her body. 243 00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:32.100 I think that's yucky. 244 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:52.080 And I think it is, it's something that the show is has now decided to do, is to turn the proactive, independent, mouthy female companion into someone just a little bit more of a victim and a little bit more passive and a little bit more subject to the male game. 245 00:16:52.139 --> 00:16:53.820 We've gone back to 1970. 246 00:16:53.940 --> 00:16:56.279 It's exactly how women are treated. 247 00:16:56.279 --> 00:16:57.360 But in Doctor Who, they were. 248 00:16:57.419 --> 00:16:58.620 No, they were. 249 00:16:58.740 --> 00:17:03.779 Liz and Joe and Sarah weren't treated in that way in the 70s. 250 00:17:03.899 --> 00:17:07.079 But you could argue that they do put Turlo in shorts. 251 00:17:07.140 --> 00:17:08.339 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 252 00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:15.299 But what I'm saying is Turlo's about to go and the way that Perry's portrayed and the way she's going to be treated continues in the program for another year. 253 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:22.019 Just because just because they stretch it to include both genders in the libidinizing of the companion doesn't actually make it any better. 254 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:24.839 No, but Turlo's not going to be in it anymore. 255 00:17:24.900 --> 00:17:27.119 And this is the 1st time he's been sexualised. 256 00:17:27.180 --> 00:17:29.759 And, you know, we've talked about Fiona coming. 257 00:17:29.819 --> 00:17:31.319 There's no good way of saying that. 258 00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:36.660 We've talked about Fiona coming, putting men in dresses in all of her stories. 259 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:42.240 But here, she puts them in tiny, tiny shorts or lovely lacy curtains. 260 00:17:42.299 --> 00:17:46.799 She's just gone around that holiday inn on Lanzarote and just pulled down and pulled down the curtains. 261 00:17:46.859 --> 00:17:47.940 There you go, wardrobe. 262 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:51.119 I'm quite uncomfortable with that 1st peri shot. 263 00:17:51.180 --> 00:17:53.339 And judging from Nicola's face. 264 00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:55.019 I think Nicola's a bit uncomfortable with that. 265 00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:59.579 And she has gone on to say that Perry's wardrobe was never as she envisioned. 266 00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:01.500 You know, she... 267 00:18:01.500 --> 00:18:02.220 She's not from Essex. 268 00:18:02.339 --> 00:18:03.180 Nicola Bryant. 269 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:06.779 Well, Nicola Bryant wrote like a 5 page backstory for Perry. 270 00:18:06.900 --> 00:18:10.140 Before she realised that Peter Davidson was leaving. 271 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:16.140 So it was all based around how the doctor looked like her dead father and et cetera, et cetera. 272 00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:20.700 And she's like, and then we get Colin, who looks nothing like my dead car. 273 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:24.900 Unless she was in octopussy and he was one of the clowns. 274 00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:26.640 Maldi clown. 275 00:18:26.700 --> 00:18:35.279 She also talked about, you know, how in movies set in American colleges back then, you know, slasher movies, the girls weren't generally running around in bikini. 276 00:18:35.339 --> 00:18:38.700 She's like, they were running around in sweatshirts and that's what I thought I'd be wearing. 277 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:47.400 You know, she might wear an overlong sweatshirt with just tights underneath, but they're putting me in these leotards and that doesn't really, you know, you do it because wardrobe tells you to. 278 00:18:47.460 --> 00:18:55.980 I really, I like her blouse and shorts combo that she wears for this and Andrazani because it's practical in the hot climate of Lanzarotti. 279 00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:57.599 But, yeah, but... 280 00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:00.000 It's continues to do it too, the Leotard. 281 00:19:00.059 --> 00:19:00.539 Yeah exactly. 282 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:02.099 And it's not... 283 00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:03.660 There's nothing wrong with the bikini itself. 284 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:05.039 It is that shot. 285 00:19:05.220 --> 00:19:11.160 That Benny Hill, you know, it's the beginning of a Benny Hill sketch that shot. 286 00:19:11.220 --> 00:19:14.160 And the look on Nicola's face is almost like, really? 287 00:19:14.220 --> 00:19:15.359 Really? 288 00:19:15.420 --> 00:19:17.519 This is a shot we're actually doing. 289 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:21.359 Is it that we're uncomfortable with sexualising Doctor Who in this period? 290 00:19:21.420 --> 00:19:22.500 No, no. 291 00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:26.279 I mean, I think that JNT is obviously, do you know what I mean? 292 00:19:26.339 --> 00:19:29.220 There's very little kind of sexuality. 293 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:30.539 No, I think that came from... 294 00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:32.160 I think that shot was pushed by coming. 295 00:19:32.220 --> 00:19:33.599 But to speak. 296 00:19:33.660 --> 00:19:43.740 But I think that it's the politics of it that I don't like, it's taking an independent character and replacing her with someone designed to be a victim. 297 00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:49.619 You see, I agree with that up to a point because I think in this story more than any other and we're getting ahead of ourselves. 298 00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:54.420 But Perry is incredibly independent, incredibly resourceful in this. 299 00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:56.339 She masters a chameleon. 300 00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:57.359 Yeah, yeah. 301 00:19:57.420 --> 00:19:59.400 And they never explained that, but who the hell cares? 302 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:04.859 Because it's an excellent concept that a companion can outdo the master's control in some way. 303 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:09.480 She gets that wonderful line, like when he shouts at her, I'm the master. 304 00:20:09.539 --> 00:20:16.380 She says, I'm perfectly proud and I can shout just as loud as you can. which is what you want any companion to say to the master. 305 00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:20.640 Her best bit in the story is when the shrunken master is wandering around the tartars. 306 00:20:20.700 --> 00:20:22.079 And she's got her shoe. 307 00:20:22.140 --> 00:20:24.119 She's got a shoe and she's going to smack him. 308 00:20:24.180 --> 00:20:28.259 What they should have done in the bother bothers. 309 00:20:29.220 --> 00:20:35.640 You know, I love the bit where she's running to help the doctor, but then runs back to Turlo and says, oh, he'll need this. 310 00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:38.579 You know she doesn't know anything that's going on. 311 00:20:38.700 --> 00:20:47.220 But I think it is another case, a lot like ages ago, I said with Dodo, I think the actress is putting a lot more in it than what's on the page. 312 00:20:47.339 --> 00:20:50.039 And it's what an actor's job is. 313 00:20:50.099 --> 00:20:50.579 Yeah, yeah. 314 00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:51.900 And she's really charming. 315 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:52.859 I mean she is very appealing. 316 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:53.819 She's greatly charming. 317 00:20:53.880 --> 00:20:57.180 She even covers up the black holes in the plot by being so charming. 318 00:20:57.240 --> 00:20:57.960 Yeah. 319 00:20:57.960 --> 00:20:59.339 Where did that thing come from? 320 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:01.200 Why the hell is it on earth? 321 00:21:01.259 --> 00:21:06.420 Yeah, and was it was it actually Turlo's or was it part of his dad's hoard? 322 00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:09.779 Because no, because his dad's on Khan, son, and... 323 00:21:09.779 --> 00:21:11.460 Maybe the solicitor went on holidays. 324 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:15.960 Yeah, and left his barbell slash... 325 00:21:16.019 --> 00:21:16.799 Whatever. 326 00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:19.319 Back massage out there. 327 00:21:19.380 --> 00:21:23.099 I'd like to say someone who's unexpectedly excellent in this. 328 00:21:23.339 --> 00:21:25.380 Anthony Ainley. 329 00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:27.359 No, it's terrible. 330 00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:27.900 I agree. 331 00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:28.380 He good. 332 00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:36.539 He's at his very, very best, and we'll get to that because we haven't seen that on screen yet, and we don't see it for a while, but he's, I agree. 333 00:21:36.599 --> 00:21:38.400 I think he's at his best in this one too. 334 00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:43.259 And he does subtly differentiate between the chameleon master and the mastermaster. 335 00:21:43.380 --> 00:21:44.700 The chameleon master. 336 00:21:44.759 --> 00:21:50.220 It's kind of weird, is a lot more in line with the worst bits of his earlier self. 337 00:21:50.279 --> 00:21:53.940 But the thing is, you know from the beginning he's chameleon as the master. 338 00:21:54.359 --> 00:21:58.500 Whereas the mini master is really entertaining. 339 00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:07.619 I mean, there's another plot hole there where the doctor says, oh, were you experimenting with a tissue compression eliminator and the master's like, I was working on an even more deadly version. 340 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:09.059 One, it kills you instantly. 341 00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:10.799 So how is it even more deadly? 342 00:22:10.859 --> 00:22:14.579 Two, it shrinks you and kills you instantly. 343 00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:16.079 This shrinks you and keeps you alive. 344 00:22:16.140 --> 00:22:19.259 You've literally done the opposite of what you were setting out to. 345 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:24.059 Unless he wants tiny little friends to put in his little playhouse is just made his little. 346 00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:25.559 What is he saying when he dies? 347 00:22:25.619 --> 00:22:27.599 How can you do this to him? 348 00:22:27.660 --> 00:22:28.140 What's the line? 349 00:22:28.859 --> 00:22:32.579 To your own, yes, to your own species, your own ex? 350 00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:34.619 Sister brothers, cousins, former roommate. 351 00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:36.119 Ex-mother. 352 00:22:36.180 --> 00:22:36.960 It's your sister. 353 00:22:37.019 --> 00:22:38.400 I think piano tutor. 354 00:22:38.460 --> 00:22:41.640 I think I think the master's doctor's ex-wife. 355 00:22:41.700 --> 00:22:45.660 Some people have tried to post-rationalize it is. 356 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:50.220 Would you show no mercy to one of your own, which he clearly does not say? 357 00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:52.559 No, he actually says, won't you show mercy to your own? 358 00:22:53.160 --> 00:22:53.460 Yeah. 359 00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:58.680 That is a little bit horrible that he sort of, and because it's a bit of a video effect. 360 00:22:58.740 --> 00:23:00.779 It sort of fake and so it doesn't matter, right, so much? 361 00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:01.740 step out of it. 362 00:23:01.799 --> 00:23:02.640 Chameleon does. 363 00:23:02.700 --> 00:23:05.099 The TARDIS is three. his TARDIS is 3 feet behind him. 364 00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:06.960 Chameleon just steps out. 365 00:23:07.019 --> 00:23:08.160 You're standing in a tea chest. 366 00:23:08.220 --> 00:23:09.059 That's right. 367 00:23:09.059 --> 00:23:12.839 Pete sells that scene. like Pete doesn't intervene. 368 00:23:13.019 --> 00:23:16.559 But he's clearly, really distressed. 369 00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:20.039 Yeah, yeah, he's really good. and really conflicted. 370 00:23:20.099 --> 00:23:24.059 It's like, I should do something, but I don't want to. 371 00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:30.119 When I watched this, because I remember seeing it at the time, Richard, did you think that that was the master being killed? 372 00:23:30.180 --> 00:23:31.019 Yes, I did. 373 00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:31.740 And it was a shock. 374 00:23:31.799 --> 00:23:38.700 And then I also remember how very even-handed he was with popping chameleon off. 375 00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:42.059 It's like, no, kill me, it's all right, if you insist. 376 00:23:42.119 --> 00:23:46.559 And I thought I remember at the time having completely forgotten about Chameleon. 377 00:23:46.619 --> 00:23:48.660 So that was something of a surprises. 378 00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:51.420 Everyone's really horrible to chameleon in this story. 379 00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:56.579 Like when he starts screaming, they just kind of run in and look at them and when Chameleon says, oh, I'm really sorry about that. 380 00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:59.400 Peter just looks at him like he's whizzed on the carpet. 381 00:23:59.460 --> 00:24:03.480 No, it's like those people who got an iPhone 7 and that was it was hissing. 382 00:24:03.539 --> 00:24:04.380 Did you hear that story? 383 00:24:04.440 --> 00:24:07.259 So Chameleon was very much like that, I think. 384 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:10.619 And then when Turlo intercepts the signal. 385 00:24:10.619 --> 00:24:13.799 And says to Chameleon, you'll receive no more signals from Tryon. 386 00:24:13.859 --> 00:24:14.640 Your Finnish comedian. 387 00:24:14.700 --> 00:24:15.420 Chameleon. 388 00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:21.779 He gives him an electric shock and then Perry pushes him around and mentally manipulates him. 389 00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:25.559 And then the master's obviously treating him like crap and then the doctor shoots him. 390 00:24:25.619 --> 00:24:27.299 Like chameleon's having a really bad day. 391 00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:31.140 So they've, I've been through this with canine and I'm not doing it all. 392 00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:44.220 No, well, I think they do at least try in the dialogue to suggest that Chameleon is kind of inextricably linked to the master and is the master sleeper agent, and that's why when Chameleon's rational, he wants to be destroyed. 393 00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:49.980 And again, I wish they didn't write scenes where the doctor shot people with guns. 394 00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:52.920 But, like, that's not so bad. 395 00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:57.720 And they do go out of their way, to say, is an appliance and stuff and he's terrible, so let him die. 396 00:24:57.779 --> 00:25:00.660 But, you know, does he not just have an off switch? 397 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:01.980 Yeah. 398 00:25:02.099 --> 00:25:03.660 Genius. 399 00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:05.160 Just like they reboot it. 400 00:25:05.220 --> 00:25:07.319 So it charge him overnight, for God's sake. 401 00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:10.019 It's a positronic brain, can that be rewritten? 402 00:25:10.079 --> 00:25:12.000 I think you can rewire a human brain, so. 403 00:25:12.059 --> 00:25:15.059 Data in Star Trek Linux Generation has an off switch. 404 00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:15.539 Yeah. 405 00:25:15.539 --> 00:25:19.079 Which Beverly Crusher can bloody use for God's sake. 406 00:25:19.140 --> 00:25:24.720 And as Gates McFadden says herself, everyone Beverly Crusher looks at it the 1st season dies. 407 00:25:24.779 --> 00:25:27.480 She's like, that's why I wasn't in the 2nd season. 408 00:25:27.539 --> 00:25:29.519 Everyone dies on my operating table. 409 00:25:30.240 --> 00:25:33.000 When Denise Crosby was being written out. 410 00:25:33.059 --> 00:25:34.259 She said, no, don't give me her. 411 00:25:35.700 --> 00:25:37.380 Oh dear. 412 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:44.160 Turmo is depicted very early on in this story, sabotaging the TARDIS and lying to the doctor about it. 413 00:25:44.220 --> 00:25:45.359 Old times. 414 00:25:45.420 --> 00:25:46.740 I think it's brilliant. 415 00:25:46.859 --> 00:25:56.640 And I think Tegan's departure scene is really affecting and really well done, but Turlo gets the most spectacular arc in this story. 416 00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:03.119 He starts the way he began, you know, sabotaging the TARDIS and lying to the doctor about it. 417 00:26:03.180 --> 00:26:12.599 But he ends doing what Patrick Troughton's doctor did, which is in a situation where there's a whole heap of people who need to be saved. 418 00:26:12.660 --> 00:26:14.819 He's not able to deal with it. 419 00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:25.980 He calls in the people he's on the run from and gets them to rescue those people at the risk of losing his own freedom. 420 00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:27.900 And I just think that's terrific. 421 00:26:27.960 --> 00:26:33.960 I don't know if it was intentional if Grimwade intended the parallel, but he becomes the doctor at the end. 422 00:26:34.019 --> 00:26:35.880 I think it is intentional. 423 00:26:35.940 --> 00:26:52.019 And the beautiful moment I love in this story, and it's also, it's quite hard to watch, but we discussed in season 20 that the doctor knows something's up with Turlo from the beginning, but he kind of gives him enough rope, as it were, not to hang himself, but to do tricks with, because he finds the crystal in the 1st story. 424 00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:57.119 And then in Enlightenment, he doesn't try to persuade Turlow, he leaves the choice up to Turlow. 425 00:26:57.180 --> 00:26:58.559 The same thing happens here. 426 00:26:58.619 --> 00:27:02.519 Like the doctor comes in and finds that Turlow's been fiddling with the TARDIS console. 427 00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:09.000 And then when Turlow is saying, I know this equipment, I know the scriptment, again, the doctor just leaves him to go, doesn't ask for an explanation. 428 00:27:09.059 --> 00:27:31.680 It's only when the doctor thinks that Turlo might be working for the master as well, but he finally snaps and says, if you're working with the master, no, if you're concealing anything that may help the master, our friendship is over and it's like, right, that shows the strength of that friendship, that the doctor's like, I will always give you your freedom and I will always trust you until you are no longer worthy of that trust. 429 00:27:31.740 --> 00:27:34.740 And that's when Turlo steps up and becomes a doctor. 430 00:27:34.799 --> 00:27:42.420 And again, we talked about last week, how the doctor and Tua were so emotionally reserved compared to Tegan, all the emotions on the surface. 431 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:49.200 Here, the doctor and Turlo have to say goodbye to each other and they just don't have the emotional toolkit to handle it. 432 00:27:49.259 --> 00:27:58.859 You know, it's just this very perfunctory thing, but that is so right for both characters and they just get very quiet and very down low and it's all very understated. 433 00:27:58.920 --> 00:28:00.779 Oh, I've learned a lot from you. 434 00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:02.700 Yes, I'll miss you. 435 00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:04.319 Yeah, look after him. 436 00:28:04.380 --> 00:28:05.220 He gets into trouble. 437 00:28:05.220 --> 00:28:07.140 And I love that line. 438 00:28:07.259 --> 00:28:07.859 Look after him. 439 00:28:07.920 --> 00:28:10.019 He does get into the most terrible trouble. 440 00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:11.279 It's so great. 441 00:28:11.339 --> 00:28:12.720 It's really good. 442 00:28:12.779 --> 00:28:15.720 And again, Perry's just kind of there going, hold on, what? 443 00:28:15.779 --> 00:28:18.660 Like, I just met you guys and you're obviously good mates. 444 00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:19.440 What the hell's going on? 445 00:28:19.500 --> 00:28:21.359 Or you'll find out, dear. 446 00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:33.539 But yeah, it's kind of weird because Mark Strickson has had the whole thing of being locked in a cupboard for most of this season, but whenever he's given something to do, he excels. 447 00:28:33.660 --> 00:28:34.500 Yeah. 448 00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:37.559 It's a shame I can never do those spreadsheets, but... 449 00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:42.480 I think it's a shame that like during this period of Doctor Who. 450 00:28:42.539 --> 00:28:50.940 There's so much missed opportunity with just the sort of portrayal of relationships between the regulars, and I guess Doctor Who hasn't really done that properly. 451 00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:55.799 But, you know, we talk about the doctor and Turlo being friends. 452 00:28:55.859 --> 00:29:00.539 But there's not really much time for us to actually see evidence of that, is there? 453 00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:02.579 You know, they travel together and stuff. 454 00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:08.579 But look, even the old series at its best compared to the new series at its worst. 455 00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:18.779 The new series has an interest in trying to depict relationships in a way that the old series really rarely managers. 456 00:29:18.839 --> 00:29:28.019 And it's a shame in the 80s when they're going for more serialised storytelling and a bigger, regular cast and maybe higher concept characters and stuff. 457 00:29:28.079 --> 00:29:36.720 I'd be fascinated to see a version of like season 21 that cared a bit more about the relationships between the regular cast. 458 00:29:36.779 --> 00:29:41.279 Yeah, it's another case of, it's not on paper. all in the performance. 459 00:29:41.339 --> 00:29:43.559 I would have talked about this before. 460 00:29:43.619 --> 00:29:50.099 I would have loved a season of Peter and Nicola, and I think Nicola would have loved that as well, or at least one story. 461 00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:52.680 Big Finish picked it up and did some really nice ideas with it. 462 00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:54.480 I think it would have been great. 463 00:29:54.539 --> 00:29:55.740 I mean, truly well. 464 00:29:55.799 --> 00:29:56.460 And he needs that. 465 00:29:56.519 --> 00:30:02.400 That one on one thing, the stuff that even Russell realised, you know, it's the way to go is just the doctor and De Gill. 466 00:30:02.460 --> 00:30:03.059 Yeah. 467 00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:07.259 Although I like the doctor, a man and a woman as well. 468 00:30:07.319 --> 00:30:13.079 And I think when Moffatt does that in the new series, like, I'm not a massive fan of Amy, but Rory's fantastic. 469 00:30:13.079 --> 00:30:19.200 And I love that dynamic and you've got a bunch of relationships to play with, and I think it's really interesting. 470 00:30:19.259 --> 00:30:22.140 I think whenever there's a boy that comes along, Mickey is charming. 471 00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:27.180 Captain Jack works so much better in this artist for me than he does in Torchworks.. 472 00:30:27.779 --> 00:30:30.359 On a big finish side note. 473 00:30:30.420 --> 00:30:34.380 We jokingly referred to what is Perry's mother up to? 474 00:30:34.440 --> 00:30:47.400 In Big Finish, they do bring in Perry's mother, played by the fabulous Claudia Christian, best known to science fiction fans as Commander Ivanova from Babylon 5, and she is wonderful. 475 00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:49.259 And a good tweeterer as well. 476 00:30:49.319 --> 00:30:50.640 Yes, very much so. 477 00:30:50.700 --> 00:30:51.960 Is she doing the accent? 478 00:30:52.019 --> 00:30:53.339 She's doing the accent. 479 00:30:53.579 --> 00:30:57.539 The story is called The Reaping by Joe Lidster. 480 00:30:57.660 --> 00:31:10.740 And it actually deals with what happened to Perry's mother and Howard after Perry disappeared because that's the thing in this story. 481 00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:12.839 Yeah, who to blame. 482 00:31:12.900 --> 00:31:23.279 And also, it's a particularly good story in its own right, but it led to Nicola Bryant and Claudia Christian becoming firm friends and doing lots of charity work together, which is lovely. yeah. 483 00:31:23.339 --> 00:31:25.740 In the wigs and the outfits and their accents. 484 00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:34.859 And I believe we brought this up on the podcast before Nicola Bryant was on the short list to play Captain Catherine Janeway. she was 3rd choice. 485 00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:36.000 Kate Mulgrew was second. 486 00:31:36.059 --> 00:31:37.859 Can you imagine what that would have been like? 487 00:31:37.920 --> 00:31:39.660 Would she have done the accent? 488 00:31:39.720 --> 00:31:40.380 No, apparently. 489 00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:44.819 Apparently, much like Genevieve Bujol wasn't putting on an American accent. 490 00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:46.980 She used her inference Canadian. 491 00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:47.819 She thing. 492 00:31:47.880 --> 00:31:49.619 She would have just done it as an English person. 493 00:31:49.680 --> 00:31:50.339 Yeah. 494 00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:56.880 She, you know, when Nicholas said, it is an actual accent and I diddler in it at a place in real time. 495 00:31:56.880 --> 00:32:01.680 And yeah, she was married to an American young actor and writer, wasn't she? 496 00:32:01.740 --> 00:32:05.039 And she had lived in New York and she very quickly got coached by. 497 00:32:05.099 --> 00:32:09.119 But yeah, she said, you know, she was getting it actually off her boyfriend, so to speak. 498 00:32:09.180 --> 00:32:17.759 As such, that's why her accent improves dramatically as she goes along because it's a bit weak here, but already next week in Andrazani, it's going to be a lot stronger. 499 00:32:17.819 --> 00:32:22.440 But that being said, it's a lot better than a lot of other American accents we've had on the show. 500 00:32:22.500 --> 00:32:23.640 We've done the gunfighters, yes. 501 00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:24.779 The Gunfighters. 502 00:32:24.839 --> 00:32:29.579 Bill Filer from CIAHQ, Washington HQ, rather. 503 00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:32.759 Leslie Schofield in the war games. 504 00:32:32.819 --> 00:32:35.700 It's still a bad idea though, isn't it? 505 00:32:35.759 --> 00:32:38.039 Don't you think, to have the regular putting on an accent? 506 00:32:38.099 --> 00:32:42.960 Well, at the time, you're putting an American in because the show's becoming popular in America. 507 00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:45.539 And no American's going to be fooled by that. 508 00:32:45.599 --> 00:32:46.980 They watched it for Englishness anyway. 509 00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:51.839 It's like it's as successful as putting an Australian in to get better ratings in Australia. 510 00:32:51.900 --> 00:32:52.619 We saw how that worked. 511 00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:53.880 Actually, it did, though. 512 00:32:54.180 --> 00:32:54.599 Really? 513 00:32:54.660 --> 00:32:58.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 514 00:32:58.500 --> 00:33:04.559 I mean, it's a shame in a way, but I think with some actors, you know, they can do an accent or they can act. 515 00:33:04.619 --> 00:33:07.980 But I think Nicola Bryant is someone who can act through the accent. 516 00:33:08.039 --> 00:33:08.640 Yeah. 517 00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:09.240 Yeah. 518 00:33:09.299 --> 00:33:10.619 You see it all the time. 519 00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:17.460 Remember, um, remember Press gang and Dexter Fletcher get saddled with that American accent and it really interferes with his acting. 520 00:33:17.579 --> 00:33:20.819 Yeah, it really can kill a performance. 521 00:33:20.819 --> 00:33:23.579 And she's still really super charming all the way through. 522 00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:26.400 Like I've got no problem with Nicola Bryant's performance. 523 00:33:26.460 --> 00:33:30.720 I really, really don't like the way her character's conceived and where it goes. 524 00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:41.579 But she's so charming and so sweet, even despite the occasional sort of lapse in the way she speaks American. 525 00:33:41.700 --> 00:33:56.940 There's a great moment in this where she's looking for the doctor and Turlo and she slides down a hill and she was just told, okay, slide down this hill and then walk off camera saying, uh, calling out to the doctor and she's like, oh, okay, I'll do that. 526 00:33:57.000 --> 00:33:59.099 And she runs to the top of the hill, Nicola. 527 00:33:59.160 --> 00:34:01.140 And then thinks, oh, hold on. 528 00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:02.519 Do I go off left or right? 529 00:34:02.519 --> 00:34:04.019 Because it's got to match up with the other footage. 530 00:34:04.079 --> 00:34:07.200 Oh, well, directors behind the camera so she'll wave. 531 00:34:07.500 --> 00:34:12.480 And so she slides down the hill and cuts her legs off. 532 00:34:12.840 --> 00:34:14.579 It looked like it really hurts. 533 00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:15.119 It did. 534 00:34:15.179 --> 00:34:20.820 And the thing is, she's then stumbling towards the camera saying, doctor, doctor, and no one is giving her any direction. 535 00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:24.360 So she just goes off to the left and I think Fiona coming said, why did you go off to left? 536 00:34:24.420 --> 00:34:26.219 Well, why didn't you tell me to go off to the right? 537 00:34:26.280 --> 00:34:27.659 They didn't reshoot it. 538 00:34:28.739 --> 00:34:36.119 Okay, Richard, you said last night you watched the chasing gig. 539 00:34:36.179 --> 00:34:39.480 But also you watch the... the shortened cut of this. 540 00:34:39.539 --> 00:34:40.380 Yes, it was shorter. 541 00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:41.760 What did you think? 542 00:34:41.820 --> 00:34:47.579 Well, I actually have to admit, I haven't watched Planet of Fire 4 episodes since, well, the 90s. 543 00:34:48.179 --> 00:34:50.460 I think it's very nicely done. 544 00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:55.380 I think it works because of Timonoff, and it works because of the supporting cast. 545 00:34:55.440 --> 00:35:03.599 The scripts sort of so, so, if you had a Cummings had some really bad fan, you know, it's drumming for this story. 546 00:35:03.659 --> 00:35:11.940 She's called everything from lacklustre to phoning it in and far more negative, but she gave us snake dance and she gave us... 547 00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:15.420 I don't have a problem with it, but it also doesn't go anywhere. 548 00:35:15.480 --> 00:35:16.860 It is a little bit untidy. 549 00:35:16.920 --> 00:35:18.300 It's sort of like, what is this doing? 550 00:35:18.360 --> 00:35:23.039 The script, I mean, the script, there's just a bunch of stuff that happens while we move the characters around. 551 00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:24.900 And I think we can blame so hard for that. 552 00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:27.420 I'd like to think, although we've seen Grim Wade's efforts before. 553 00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:30.480 There is never a primitive planet where a spaceship hasn't crashed on. 554 00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:34.199 Yeah, I mean, Peter Grimwade does great concept. 555 00:35:34.260 --> 00:35:37.019 But his structure isn't great. 556 00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:41.699 Like, we've got time flight, and we've got Modron undead, and we got this, all of which have great ideas. 557 00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:45.239 I believe this is the most successful of his scripts, but I agree with you. 558 00:35:45.300 --> 00:35:47.460 There are certainly structural and pacing issues. 559 00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:54.900 But it's a lot like Modern Undead, where Modern Undead's job is to bring the brigadier back, you know, show us Turlow. 560 00:35:55.019 --> 00:35:59.159 And so there is a smoggish Bjord of impossible tasks. 561 00:35:59.280 --> 00:36:01.199 Yeah, no, no, I don't think so. 562 00:36:01.260 --> 00:36:08.039 I think what he ends up doing is concentrating on shifting the characters around stuff, which is really successful and entertaining. 563 00:36:08.099 --> 00:36:14.099 And then you get a rather kind of underwritten kind of central Doctor Who story in the middle of all of that. 564 00:36:14.159 --> 00:36:17.340 But I don't mind that balance at all. 565 00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:26.940 I think the alternative, which is what Doctor Who would do at this time, is to kind of sideline the character stuff at the expense of, you know, the Doctor Who story. 566 00:36:27.000 --> 00:36:34.860 And I think it's refreshing to spend so much time concentrating on all of these new people and old people and stuff like that. 567 00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:37.440 And let the story be a bit underwritten. 568 00:36:37.500 --> 00:36:39.480 I think the new series does that quite a lot. 569 00:36:39.539 --> 00:36:41.940 You know what it reminds me of in the new series? 570 00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:43.619 Love and monsters. 571 00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:52.079 Because Love and Monsters is all about these 5 people and just the plot kind of comes in in the last 10 minutes and kills everyone. 572 00:36:52.380 --> 00:36:57.000 Yeah, that's very true, but again, that's not exactly a favourite story, isn't it? 573 00:36:57.000 --> 00:36:59.519 That, I mean, that's a real Marmite story. 574 00:36:59.579 --> 00:37:01.559 Personally, I love it, but I know a lot of people hate it. 575 00:37:01.619 --> 00:37:05.280 I love it and I totally understand why a lot of people hate it. 576 00:37:05.340 --> 00:37:05.940 Oh, yeah, yeah. 577 00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:06.780 I get why people hate it. 578 00:37:06.840 --> 00:37:08.880 I don't particularly understand why people hate fear her. 579 00:37:08.940 --> 00:37:11.159 I don't think it's great, but yeah, it's just not good. 580 00:37:11.219 --> 00:37:13.320 A couple of minor things I noticed. 581 00:37:13.380 --> 00:37:23.400 Howard's assistant, Kurt, at one point when he's berating his crew for setting up the Ute wrong, says, must I do everything myself and grabs a topless Greek bloke? 582 00:37:24.539 --> 00:37:26.579 I really liked that. 583 00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:27.599 What he was to her. 584 00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:38.400 And a particular relationship I loved in this story that even though they're in the same story again later, it's never really picked up on it in the same way. 585 00:37:38.519 --> 00:37:42.239 Anthony Anley and Nicola Bryant are really enjoyable together. 586 00:37:42.300 --> 00:37:48.719 Like when they're in the cave together at his lecture and she is just rolling her eyes and I'm supposed to be impressed, kind of acting. 587 00:37:48.780 --> 00:37:50.820 But she's doing the Sarah Jane thing. 588 00:37:50.880 --> 00:37:53.519 She's being defiant, but being scared as well. 589 00:37:53.579 --> 00:37:59.099 And it's like, I kind of look at that and go, oh, so we have an antagonistic relationship that's still enjoyable to watch. 590 00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:01.500 Take note, dear listeners. 591 00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:03.420 This may not continue in a few weeks. 592 00:38:03.900 --> 00:38:10.679 I actually quite like how it gives Ainley's master the opportunity to call her Miss Brown and stuff. 593 00:38:11.219 --> 00:38:12.119 Miss Brown and my dear. 594 00:38:12.179 --> 00:38:13.739 I think that stuff's really wonderful. 595 00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:16.980 I think I'm sorry that I only came back up. after this actually. 596 00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:22.440 Yeah, it was a really nice point for him to finish, but then I say his best story is yet to come. 597 00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:24.059 Yeah, no, that is true. 598 00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:27.360 We would have lost that thing that we haven't even watched it. 599 00:38:27.420 --> 00:38:30.059 I haven't I haven't seen a lot of these stories since the 90s. 600 00:38:30.119 --> 00:38:34.800 It'll be interesting for me to see just how much fun this series is going to get in a few weeks. 601 00:38:35.219 --> 00:38:36.659 Probably. 602 00:38:36.719 --> 00:38:48.420 In the end, I don't think this is quite as good as, say, Frontios, but it's a big improvement on last week, and it's certainly better than the other 2 stories we've had in the season so far. 603 00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:52.019 It's a Christmas romp and even and the deaths aren't exactly deathy, are they? 604 00:38:52.079 --> 00:38:53.940 Yeah, no, we needed this holiday. 605 00:38:54.000 --> 00:38:55.920 I found it surprisingly enjoyable. 606 00:38:56.039 --> 00:38:59.340 Oh, and I like Pete without his jacket eye. he looks great. 607 00:38:59.400 --> 00:39:06.480 I want to punch in the head, whoever put all those question marks all over his braces, but otherwise he looks really terrific. 608 00:39:06.599 --> 00:39:07.619 Quite like the brass. 609 00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:10.139 I quite like turbo short. 610 00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:11.940 I'm wearing them now. 611 00:39:33.059 --> 00:39:39.719 Well, dear listeners, we're leaving Sarn for a sequence of long and happy adventures with the fifth doctor in Perry. 612 00:39:39.780 --> 00:39:40.980 So do come back next week. 613 00:39:41.039 --> 00:39:42.539 I hope it really works out for these two. 614 00:39:42.599 --> 00:39:51.119 Until then, you can find us online at flightthroughentirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter over on Bondfinger. 615 00:39:51.239 --> 00:40:02.519 We still haven't released View to a kill, but there's lots of other bond commentaries for you to enjoy starring Sean Connery, David Niven, Woody Allen, Peter Sellers, kind of, and Roger Moore. 616 00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:04.679 And Ursula Andras. 617 00:40:04.679 --> 00:40:05.039 Twice. 618 00:40:05.099 --> 00:40:05.760 Yes. 619 00:40:05.820 --> 00:40:11.579 You can find that at Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and Bondfingercast on Twitter. 620 00:40:11.639 --> 00:40:16.380 Until next time, may none of your flaming religious leaders put you to the fire. 621 00:40:16.500 --> 00:40:17.940 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 622 00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:18.900 Good night. 623 00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:19.559 Good night. 624 00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:25.619 That was flight for entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone. 625 00:40:25.679 --> 00:40:27.780 Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. 626 00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:32.519 This episode just gives Great Frock was recorded on 19th of November 2016. 627 00:40:32.699 --> 00:40:35.519 The next episode will be released on the 7th of January. 628 00:40:38.579 --> 00:40:47.820 Here at Flight Through Entirety, we'd like to wish all of our listeners a very happy holiday and a thrilling, tremendous, and in no way, tiresome 2017. 629 00:40:50.219 --> 00:40:54.960 I was just checking that everything Todd mentioned that we've also mentioned. 630 00:40:55.079 --> 00:40:58.320 Yeah, I don't think I've got much else to say. 631 00:40:58.380 --> 00:41:00.659 It's so it's a bit thin, isn't it? 632 00:41:00.719 --> 00:41:01.920 But it is it is enjoyable. 633 00:41:01.980 --> 00:41:03.659 I was really surprised by how much I liked it. 634 00:41:04.380 --> 00:41:14.219 It's so nice that it completely reflects the scripts of so many other volcano stories such as, you know, King Solomon's mines or Blake 7's volcano. 635 00:41:14.280 --> 00:41:18.119 You can really see the antecedents because I know we always like to talk about them. 636 00:41:18.119 --> 00:41:19.139 Inferno. 637 00:41:19.199 --> 00:41:20.280 The underwater menace. 638 00:41:20.340 --> 00:41:21.059 Yes. 639 00:41:21.119 --> 00:41:22.860 Underworld with the suits. 640 00:41:22.980 --> 00:41:23.639 Underworld. 641 00:41:23.699 --> 00:41:24.059 Yes. 642 00:41:24.059 --> 00:41:25.980 Yes. 643 00:41:26.460 --> 00:41:31.980 Honestly, it's like the entire cast was on helium because the whole thing's evaporated. 644 00:41:32.039 --> 00:41:33.179 Did we watch this show? 645 00:41:33.239 --> 00:41:34.320 I remember watching it. 646 00:41:34.380 --> 00:41:36.539 It's got rocks, hasn't it? 647 00:41:36.659 --> 00:41:38.699 It's got burning rocks and blokes in shorts, yeah. 648 00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:39.960 Okay, no, we did see this. 649 00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:46.800 That's probably the tag scene, isn't it? 650 00:41:46.860 --> 00:41:47.519 We'll see.