WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:51:33

1
00:00:31.079 --> 00:00:36.299
Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to a new year of Flight through Entirety.

2
00:00:36.359 --> 00:00:41.579
The only Doctor Who podcast who smothers themselves in bat's milk for strictly medicinal purposes.

3
00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:42.479
I'm Brendan.

4
00:00:42.600 --> 00:00:44.039
I'm Nathan I'm Todd.

5
00:00:44.100 --> 00:00:47.039
I'm a generous serving of front boob and a blouse for this episode.

6
00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:48.719
I can do so.

7
00:00:48.780 --> 00:00:50.280
Happy Christmas past, everyone.

8
00:00:50.340 --> 00:00:53.939
And for a Doctor Who story at this time.

9
00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:56.100
There's actually a significant lack of boob.

10
00:00:56.159 --> 00:00:58.799
It is the Caves of Andrazani.

11
00:01:07.859 --> 00:01:09.900
Marry a boob, really, is there?

12
00:01:09.959 --> 00:01:12.299
It's almost flawless, almost.

13
00:01:12.420 --> 00:01:15.239
Except for one or two glaring circumstances.

14
00:01:15.299 --> 00:01:20.819
Can we just cast our mind back a few weeks to Resurrection of the Daleks?

15
00:01:20.879 --> 00:01:23.939
And I said that I thought that was...

16
00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:28.680
I said that I thought that that was the worst Doctor Who story today.

17
00:01:28.739 --> 00:01:32.519
And the reason it was bad was that the doctor was barely involved.

18
00:01:32.579 --> 00:01:35.340
He certainly didn't really do anything to resolve anything.

19
00:01:35.400 --> 00:01:43.799
And it was a lot of people with guns, shooting other people with guns, a lot of matcho dialogue, a lot of obsession with sort of hardware and weaponry.

20
00:01:43.859 --> 00:01:48.180
And the funny thing is, this story has all of those flaws.

21
00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:51.480
It's very, very much like resurrection of the Dale.

22
00:01:51.540 --> 00:01:52.500
A lot of frock, is there?

23
00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:56.579
Except it's really, really astonishingly good.

24
00:01:56.640 --> 00:02:01.140
I know that not everyone on the panel agrees with me.

25
00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:07.739
What's happened here is for the 1st time, I think, in John Nathan Turner's tenure, perhaps since David Fisher.

26
00:02:07.799 --> 00:02:15.599
We've got a writer from, well, you know, the golden age of the program back, and that's Bob Holmes.

27
00:02:15.659 --> 00:02:22.680
And you remember that when we did our Pertweis retrospective, all of the stories I chose as good Pertweis were Bob Holmes stories.

28
00:02:22.740 --> 00:02:27.719
And this is really, really on another level as far as writing's concerned.

29
00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:34.199
And then there's Graham Harper as well, who, again, I think this is the best directed story today.

30
00:02:34.259 --> 00:02:35.340
The 1st Doctor Who.

31
00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:36.659
He had only been working for 2 years.

32
00:02:36.719 --> 00:02:40.680
He saw this as his big breakout in the business and the industry.

33
00:02:40.740 --> 00:02:44.340
He really wanted to get into film and he'd studied film very closely.

34
00:02:44.340 --> 00:02:47.039
And you can see this. is a very filmic director.

35
00:02:47.099 --> 00:02:53.819
I would say that he understands how the movement and the action and the characters are the same thing.

36
00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:58.199
So the camera and the movement, and the dialogue should all work together.

37
00:02:58.259 --> 00:03:01.800
An actor doesn't move unless it's actually part of his motivation.

38
00:03:01.860 --> 00:03:07.379
But uh, you can kind of look at the stories either side of this to see where that doesn't actually happen.

39
00:03:07.439 --> 00:03:18.719
But here there is no gesture that's made without a damn fine reason, even to the point of doing a very, that very 17th century, that very Jacobean way of, shall we say, side eye to the camera.

40
00:03:18.780 --> 00:03:22.319
But, um, and does lovely side boob to the camera as well.

41
00:03:22.319 --> 00:03:24.180
There's a lot of signing to come.

42
00:03:24.240 --> 00:03:27.539
Look, some people might say it's the best episode of Blake 7 ever made.

43
00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:29.819
That's what you think, Brendan.

44
00:03:30.000 --> 00:03:31.319
Yeah.

45
00:03:31.379 --> 00:03:31.919
Brendan.

46
00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:41.460
I'll I'll come back to what I think of this story later, but what I will pressage by saying, I think this is Kezvan Rosani is a brilliant piece of television.

47
00:03:41.879 --> 00:03:43.259
Yeah.

48
00:03:43.319 --> 00:03:44.939
I'm not convinced it's very good doctor.

49
00:03:45.060 --> 00:03:45.659
Ooh.

50
00:03:45.719 --> 00:03:46.680
What do you think, Tom?

51
00:03:46.740 --> 00:03:47.759
Look, I like it.

52
00:03:47.819 --> 00:03:49.319
I think the direction is great.

53
00:03:49.379 --> 00:03:52.560
And I think the direction actually helps the script.

54
00:03:52.620 --> 00:03:58.139
I mean in the last couple of episodes, like all the gun stuff, I'm pretty much over.

55
00:03:58.199 --> 00:03:58.500
Yeah.

56
00:03:58.500 --> 00:04:03.780
And I actually like a lot of the stuff in the 1st episodes more perhaps than towards the end.

57
00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:11.159
I mean, if I cast my mind back to when I was a kid, I didn't think it was any better or any worse than any other Doctor Who.

58
00:04:11.219 --> 00:04:16.139
It was just another story, it was the 1st time that I knew the doctor was regenerating.

59
00:04:16.199 --> 00:04:20.759
Yeah, because of the 20th anniversary BBC Times radio special.

60
00:04:20.819 --> 00:04:23.759
So we knew all the stories that were coming this season, the 1st time ever.

61
00:04:23.819 --> 00:04:28.500
And listeners will know how much I detested the Peter Davis and doctor as a kid.

62
00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:29.699
And so I just wanted him gone.

63
00:04:29.759 --> 00:04:32.819
So my focus was, look, to try up and die, right?

64
00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:33.839
Gets get on with it.

65
00:04:33.899 --> 00:04:35.160
No, no, no, honestly.

66
00:04:35.220 --> 00:04:39.899
Just hurry up, die. get on with the new doctor, that's what I want to see.

67
00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:43.379
And so, and I was talking to a friend...

68
00:04:43.379 --> 00:04:47.459
Simon Moore, about this, we were in year 7 at the time.

69
00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:52.319
And we actually enjoyed the following story more, right?

70
00:04:52.379 --> 00:04:54.000
Because there was a new doctor and that sort of thing.

71
00:04:54.060 --> 00:04:55.199
That was my perspective.

72
00:04:55.259 --> 00:04:57.480
I think it's well directed, but there's no doubt about it.

73
00:04:57.540 --> 00:05:02.579
And I understand why people are going to say it's like one of the best stories of all time, but it's not my favourite by any means.

74
00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:04.680
Robert Holmes's dialogue is delicious.

75
00:05:04.740 --> 00:05:05.519
Yeah.

76
00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:07.319
I have a question for you, Todd.

77
00:05:07.379 --> 00:05:08.459
And it's something you raise there.

78
00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:11.819
Last time you were on the podcast for season 20.

79
00:05:12.120 --> 00:05:26.160
You had a rather disturbing obsession with the fact that almost no one was dying in the show, and we commented a few weeks ago, I think, during resurrection, that you must love resurrection because all the deaths.

80
00:05:26.279 --> 00:05:30.959
I mean, the opening scene, I think 12 people are gunned down.

81
00:05:31.259 --> 00:05:35.040
What's your opinion of the use of death in season 21.

82
00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:38.339
I'm laughing, listeners.

83
00:05:38.399 --> 00:05:46.079
I'm laughing because I commented in the 5 doctors about the cyber massacre and how like over the top that was.

84
00:05:46.139 --> 00:05:50.939
So I got to Warriors of the Deep and everybody gets massacred and, you know, et cetera.

85
00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:53.819
And I'm going, okay, that's, you know, fine.

86
00:05:55.439 --> 00:06:02.399
Yep, got to resurrection of the Dialects and I'm going, oh, for goodness sake, just, I just want this death to stop, you know?

87
00:06:02.459 --> 00:06:02.939
Right.

88
00:06:02.939 --> 00:06:03.600
Just stop.

89
00:06:03.660 --> 00:06:04.860
So I was over it.

90
00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:06.120
I mean, that story is just so bleak.

91
00:06:06.180 --> 00:06:08.100
You can have too much of a good thing.

92
00:06:08.160 --> 00:06:08.819
There is no need.

93
00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:11.279
There is no need to kill so many people, right?

94
00:06:11.339 --> 00:06:12.180
And again, this happens here.

95
00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:17.819
I'm all for death and dying, but I think it has to be federation. drink, listen.

96
00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:24.060
But you need you need you need people to be killed off, but you don't need to kill everybody.

97
00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:25.560
Otherwise it loses its impact.

98
00:06:25.620 --> 00:06:26.819
A rogue one?

99
00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:28.860
Spoilers.

100
00:06:28.920 --> 00:06:34.740
So yes, so, you know, buy halfway through Resurrection, the Daleks, I'm going, I don't want anybody else to die.

101
00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:38.160
I think the problem with the resurrection of the Daleks, though, isn't that everyone dies.

102
00:06:38.220 --> 00:06:40.199
I think that it's just incredibly terrible.

103
00:06:40.259 --> 00:06:59.100
And um, this one where literally everyone dies except Perry and uh, Kraut Timmon, uh, the women live, the 2 women in the story live, but literally everyone else, including the doctor dies, including the magma creature, including all of the queen bats who've descended down to the lower levels to die.

104
00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:04.199
And you remember that Pete and Perry are dying the entire way through.

105
00:07:04.259 --> 00:07:07.439
So, It was always sort of fun.

106
00:07:07.500 --> 00:07:12.360
I do remember at the time watching this for the 1st time where you're kind of wondering what's going to take the doctor out.

107
00:07:12.420 --> 00:07:14.220
And yeah.

108
00:07:14.279 --> 00:07:17.459
Yeah, and it's deliberately set that up that way, isn't it?

109
00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:20.759
You really do think everyone, I thought the dodgy lift might get in.

110
00:07:20.819 --> 00:07:26.459
But the fact that, like, really early on, they fall into the spectrocks.

111
00:07:26.579 --> 00:07:28.319
Well, they bounce into each other.

112
00:07:28.500 --> 00:07:31.019
You see Nicola going...

113
00:07:31.019 --> 00:07:32.759
Her bum comes back into shock.

114
00:07:32.879 --> 00:07:35.879
I'm pretty sure she goes A over T, actually.

115
00:07:35.879 --> 00:07:37.560
She is the most...

116
00:07:37.560 --> 00:07:40.560
She's the most buoyant of the dolphins.

117
00:07:40.620 --> 00:07:50.699
That's something that is wonderful about the story because with the 1st doctor's regeneration, it's kind of it's ceded early on in the story that something is happening to him.

118
00:07:50.699 --> 00:07:57.000
And even then that was, that was a production necessity because Hartville had a week off.

119
00:07:57.060 --> 00:07:59.160
You know, so they had to have the doctor collapsed.

120
00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:00.180
And this as well.

121
00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:03.300
God, I didn't even spot him under the latex cape.

122
00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:09.839
But, you know, all all of the other regenerations have been something that have happened in in a flash in the last episode.

123
00:08:09.899 --> 00:08:24.420
Yeah, you know, whereas this, we get this wonderful moment at the end of part 3 where the doctor is trying to land Stots's ship and starts to see the regeneration effect in front of him in the screen and he sort of shakes it off.

124
00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:31.560
And a lot of people have come to the DVD since and said, you know, I never noticed that on broadcast and I never noticed it on video.

125
00:08:31.620 --> 00:08:32.940
It's noticing it on DVD.

126
00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:36.299
He's kind of shaking his head and you see from his perspective.

127
00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:37.259
Really?

128
00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:40.320
I just thought it was cheaply reusing the same effect, you know?

129
00:08:40.379 --> 00:08:40.740
Same here.

130
00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:43.440
Well, I like that interpretation, though.

131
00:08:43.500 --> 00:08:50.159
Well, according to Graham Harper, the idea is, from that moment, he could regenerate at any time.

132
00:08:50.220 --> 00:08:54.179
He does like do a lot of crawling and stumbling and stuff and fall, you know.

133
00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:55.019
He's holding on.

134
00:08:55.080 --> 00:08:57.480
He's the best falling over doctor we've ever had.

135
00:08:57.539 --> 00:08:58.799
Yeah, absolutely.

136
00:08:58.860 --> 00:09:00.480
I mean, crapful.

137
00:09:00.539 --> 00:09:05.039
His falling is one of the best, his falling is the best thing in terminus, let's face it.

138
00:09:06.000 --> 00:09:08.159
Yes, they're much other.

139
00:09:08.220 --> 00:09:09.960
Anything else to recommend that much?

140
00:09:10.019 --> 00:09:10.379
Sorry.

141
00:09:10.440 --> 00:09:13.679
But something I've often said about this story.

142
00:09:13.740 --> 00:09:20.940
This seems to be the Doctor Who story that Robert Holmes has always wanted to write because he's written it twice before.

143
00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:25.440
He's written it as the Space Pirates, and he's written it as the Power of Kroll.

144
00:09:25.500 --> 00:09:30.659
I was going to say, it is actually the sister story and possibly in the same universe as Power of Kroll.

145
00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:31.740
They work together really well.

146
00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:32.940
Absolutely.

147
00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:35.639
But I think what makes this one works so well.

148
00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:40.320
In space pirates, you had the goodies and the baddies.

149
00:09:40.379 --> 00:09:43.799
The Baddie, Craven, played by Dudley Foster, I think, was really good.

150
00:09:43.860 --> 00:09:44.639
Yeah.

151
00:09:44.759 --> 00:09:50.519
The good guys, General Hermak, played by Jack May. was pretty funny.

152
00:09:50.580 --> 00:09:54.299
I love Jack May, but he just wasn't a commanding presence, you know.

153
00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:57.840
In Power of Kroll, really no one's a good guy.

154
00:09:57.899 --> 00:09:58.559
No.

155
00:09:58.620 --> 00:10:07.500
Yeah, you've got the refinery workers who are horribly racist and you've got the swampies who are painted as the aggressors and literally painted in green.

156
00:10:07.559 --> 00:10:18.539
But they're not particularly presented as having much agency, you know, the kind of ruled by their religion and the ones who question it, don't really get much of a look in, et cetera.

157
00:10:18.659 --> 00:10:21.120
But in this story, you have wonderful villains.

158
00:10:21.179 --> 00:10:25.080
And you have wonderful, quote unquote.

159
00:10:25.139 --> 00:10:26.039
Good guys.

160
00:10:26.100 --> 00:10:34.980
General Chelak, he's he is a good guy by default, but at the same time, he's a complex character who makes decisions we find appalling.

161
00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:36.899
But we understand people to die.

162
00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:38.220
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

163
00:10:38.279 --> 00:10:42.899
But we understand his reason and it doesn't reduce our sympathy for the character.

164
00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:44.399
You know why he was cast?

165
00:10:44.460 --> 00:10:46.559
You know, you do know that.

166
00:10:46.620 --> 00:10:50.700
Well, because Harper wanted him to be like Earl Flynn.

167
00:10:50.759 --> 00:10:55.259
So he found the closest actor he could get with a face like Flynn and put stuck a moustache on him.

168
00:10:55.320 --> 00:10:56.279
He looks like Flynn.

169
00:10:56.340 --> 00:10:59.399
I actually think he's I actually think he's a very brigadier like. don't know.

170
00:10:59.460 --> 00:11:00.779
That's very true as well.

171
00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:03.240
I think I think that the way that it's written.

172
00:11:03.299 --> 00:11:06.059
Holmes is obsessed with colonialism.

173
00:11:06.120 --> 00:11:08.039
This is another colonialism thing.

174
00:11:08.100 --> 00:11:17.700
And um, and so he's a sort of blustering idiot general and he doesn't overplay that, but certainly Morgan says that he's obtuse.

175
00:11:17.820 --> 00:11:20.820
And he just seems to be a little bit thick.

176
00:11:20.940 --> 00:11:23.519
Yes, he hasn't really picked up on it all.

177
00:11:23.700 --> 00:11:25.980
No, and and, you know, clearly he's being out.

178
00:11:26.039 --> 00:11:29.460
If we were a blow-up toy for the last 3 months, that's quite worked it out, yeah.

179
00:11:29.580 --> 00:11:31.259
Has your hair always so perfect?

180
00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:32.700
Where is he getting his product from?

181
00:11:33.059 --> 00:11:36.480
So he doesn't play it very big or broad.

182
00:11:36.539 --> 00:11:41.279
He plays it sort of fairly naturalistically, but he is disappointingly unlikeable.

183
00:11:41.340 --> 00:11:45.419
And there is, there's no one in the story who isn't evil, is there?

184
00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:46.679
There are no good guys.

185
00:11:46.740 --> 00:11:50.639
Curry is quite, you know, as we're about to find out, you know, the quintessence. on.

186
00:11:50.700 --> 00:11:53.460
Well, the thing is, I look at Shara's Jack.

187
00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:55.080
I don't think he's particularly evil.

188
00:11:55.139 --> 00:11:55.559
Not at all.

189
00:11:55.620 --> 00:11:57.840
Exactly, he's the most sympathetic.

190
00:11:57.899 --> 00:11:59.639
He's a villain, certainly.

191
00:11:59.700 --> 00:12:02.519
And he frocks up like one, certainly.

192
00:12:02.580 --> 00:12:08.879
And it's, it's really the beginning of the unfortunate trope of villain fancies peri.

193
00:12:08.940 --> 00:12:11.519
But at the same time...

194
00:12:11.580 --> 00:12:23.759
At the same time, there is there's a complexity to that relationship, one of the best scenes to exemplify that is when Jet gets his mask ripped off, and Perry is hiding, and he goes to check on Perry.

195
00:12:24.299 --> 00:12:28.019
She sees his face and she screams and he recoils in terror.

196
00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:32.639
But just before the camera cuts away, Perry starts crawling towards him to check on him.

197
00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:36.600
And it, you know, it's a blink in your mission.

198
00:12:36.659 --> 00:12:38.879
It shouldn't have been it shouldn't have been cut quite there, should it?

199
00:12:38.940 --> 00:12:40.259
Well, it at least...

200
00:12:40.620 --> 00:12:44.220
I think, in a way, it shouldn't, but in a way, it leaves a bit of ambiguity as well.

201
00:12:44.279 --> 00:12:52.200
It's it's certainly an uncomfortable characterisation, but There are shades of gray in most of these characters.

202
00:12:52.259 --> 00:12:56.220
I would argue with the exception of Stots and Morgas.

203
00:12:56.279 --> 00:12:57.539
Yeah.

204
00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:07.740
You know, I actually think that Sharon's Jake is horrible and much, much more horrible than I thought he was on previous viewings.

205
00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:16.740
And I think the reason is that he is horrifically rapey when it comes to Perry, like absolutely revolting.

206
00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:30.299
And we talked last time about how Perry is here to be the victim, that she's here to be manhandled and pushed around by men, and it's going to be the big characteristic of her run.

207
00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:37.740
And the only thing that saves it is that she is so charming and she plays strong and saki in this.

208
00:13:37.799 --> 00:13:42.120
It's very easy to forget with the big mistake that's coming up, if you want to see it that way.

209
00:13:42.179 --> 00:13:47.340
But, um, and the 2nd Bob Holmes story she does actually, but she kind of regains some of her tenure.

210
00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:50.879
But in this one, she's strong and feisty and totally likeable.

211
00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:52.740
And kind of the Tegan we should have had all the time.

212
00:13:52.860 --> 00:13:55.379
I actually completely disagree.

213
00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:56.100
Really?

214
00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:57.240
I find it very compassionate.

215
00:13:57.299 --> 00:13:58.200
No, she is.

216
00:13:58.259 --> 00:13:58.679
She lovely.

217
00:13:58.740 --> 00:13:59.879
Look, I really like her a lot.

218
00:13:59.940 --> 00:14:11.700
I think that interplay that we have with her and Pete at the beginning of episode one is marvellous and she's really terrific in it and Pete's really doctor-ish and, you know, Richard, you said how lovely it would be.

219
00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:14.820
It would have been to have a season of those 2 together.

220
00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:19.679
But in fact, all we get is that one episode because the 2 of them are very quickly separated.

221
00:14:19.799 --> 00:14:22.620
And then she's very quickly incapacitated.

222
00:14:22.679 --> 00:14:37.200
And so when she 1st meets Sarah's Jack, she's frightened by him, he keeps wanting to touch her, and attempting to touch her, and she doesn't want that to happen, and she's flinching and screaming whenever she thinks it's likely to happen.

223
00:14:37.259 --> 00:14:43.259
And there's one really awful moment where Pete puts his hand on her to reassure her.

224
00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:48.899
But because she's in his presence, she she flinches and screams slightly at Pete's.

225
00:14:48.899 --> 00:14:50.580
Because she's such a good little actor.

226
00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:58.620
She is a good actor, but the fact is that this is more stuff about her being a victim and her being pushed around by a man.

227
00:14:58.620 --> 00:15:00.779
And it's really, really horrible here.

228
00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:16.440
One of the moments where I think maybe it can be read as sympathy because of the way that Jack looks after her when she's sick, he turns the air conditioning on, which will eventually lead Morgus and Stotts to his base.

229
00:15:16.500 --> 00:15:18.600
He's keeping her face cool.

230
00:15:18.659 --> 00:15:19.919
He's looking after her.

231
00:15:19.980 --> 00:15:26.340
But the way I was reading that is she's now so incapacitated that she can't even object to being touched by him anymore.

232
00:15:26.399 --> 00:15:29.340
She's got no power at all to do that.

233
00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:45.179
And I think that's awful and, you know, Holmes is famous for his mistreatment of women, the companion who's had the worst time of any companion up until Perry is Sarah James Smith, and that was on Bob Holmes's watch.

234
00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:48.720
And so he or she gets really, really horribly pushed around.

235
00:15:48.779 --> 00:15:54.360
And so I just can't read Shara's Jack as anything other than a big creepy vase or...

236
00:15:54.539 --> 00:15:57.179
He was Twiggy's partner and the boyfriend.

237
00:15:57.240 --> 00:15:58.500
The 1968.

238
00:15:58.980 --> 00:16:00.659
Christopher Gable actor, yes.

239
00:16:00.779 --> 00:16:02.879
He's got very nice hairy hands, doesn't he?

240
00:16:02.940 --> 00:16:04.919
was astonishingly so, Brendan.

241
00:16:04.980 --> 00:16:18.240
Did you not notice that Graham Harper's story that Christopher Cable always called Harper Twinkle on all the previous productions and he was absolutely terrified and mortified that he'd be doing the same thing on this, but he didn't.

242
00:16:18.299 --> 00:16:19.139
Yes.

243
00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:32.340
Yes, yeah, sort of according to Harper, um, Christopher Gabble was a... actor as well, but he saw, and very pretty, which is why he actually had him cast as, um, was it Morgus or Stott, so it was one of the money.

244
00:16:32.399 --> 00:16:37.620
He was cast as one of the other roles because Harper didn't think he'd want to wear a cowl mask, but then he saw how pretty the mask was.

245
00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:38.639
No, I must have that.

246
00:16:38.700 --> 00:16:40.200
His eyelashes are lovely.

247
00:16:40.259 --> 00:16:41.519
He brought his own line, I should say.

248
00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:47.159
Christopher Gable saw this as an opportunity to stretch himself as an actor.

249
00:16:47.220 --> 00:16:52.740
And there's a feature on the DVD archive or recording because Christopher Gable is no longer with us.

250
00:16:52.799 --> 00:17:01.080
Um, an archive recording where he discusses, if you like, his sort of method for getting inside the mind of the character. wrapping up.

251
00:17:01.139 --> 00:17:14.339
Graham Harper has even speculated that perhaps the reason he didn't do the whole twinkle and jokey thing was because he saw this as an opportunity to play a real part, if you like.

252
00:17:14.460 --> 00:17:20.039
Because, I suppose as a dancer, it's very easy to end up in the chorus with no character at all.

253
00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:23.880
Whereas, you know, you're given a character, you're gonna run with it.

254
00:17:23.940 --> 00:17:26.279
Little world on Graham Harper.

255
00:17:26.339 --> 00:17:36.539
He was uncredited as the director for several scenes of Warrior's Gate when Paul Joyce was removed from the set before being invited back on.

256
00:17:36.779 --> 00:17:49.019
Paul Joyce, much like Graham Harper, was trying to be a filmic director and as such, fell massively behind time in the BBC set to the point that John Nathan Turner came down and said to him, right, you're out.

257
00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:50.279
Graham and I are going to do this.

258
00:17:50.339 --> 00:17:50.940
We don't have time.

259
00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:53.640
Paul Joyce went and sat in the BBC bar.

260
00:17:53.640 --> 00:18:00.480
And half an hour later, John Nathan Turner came to him and said, look, we can't decipher your shooting screen.

261
00:18:00.539 --> 00:18:02.940
I'm sure something can be arranged.

262
00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:11.039
So I think Harper even then directed a few sequences afterwards, sort of simpler sequences while Paul Joyce focussed on the more complex ones.

263
00:18:11.099 --> 00:18:19.859
So Graham Harper makes far more a success of the filming approach, but there are still moments that were dropped.

264
00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:21.299
Do we know about these?

265
00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:24.180
No, quite a bit. every episode overran.

266
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:27.960
And they still overrun, but yeah, it was quite a considerable amount cut out.

267
00:18:28.019 --> 00:18:38.220
There are deleted scenes on the DVD and there's one very famous sequence that just wasn't shot at all because they wanted to a bit like Pertwee's departure.

268
00:18:38.339 --> 00:18:39.839
They wanted to tick a few boxes for Pete.

269
00:18:39.900 --> 00:18:41.640
So of course they explain what the salary is for.

270
00:18:41.700 --> 00:18:47.460
It turns purple in the presence of gases in the praxis range. at which point he is good for his team.

271
00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:50.819
And it's a powerful restorative on the black galafrase.

272
00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:52.200
And can be inserted nasally.

273
00:18:52.259 --> 00:18:52.680
Yes.

274
00:18:52.859 --> 00:18:57.420
And they also wanted to give him a sort of heroic fight scene.

275
00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:00.000
And that's what the magma creature was about.

276
00:19:00.059 --> 00:19:00.960
Really?

277
00:19:01.019 --> 00:19:02.819
I'm going to fight the magma creature.

278
00:19:03.059 --> 00:19:03.660
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

279
00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:11.640
So in episode in episode four, when he's trying to get to Perry, he was going to fight the magma creature and they ran out of time.

280
00:19:11.700 --> 00:19:13.259
They left for the end of the day.

281
00:19:13.319 --> 00:19:18.660
And so it's replaced with the doctor finding it shot despite the fact, and Graham Harper says this.

282
00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:20.700
We've seen bullets don't affect it.

283
00:19:20.759 --> 00:19:21.599
So what's killed it?

284
00:19:21.660 --> 00:19:25.619
We don't know, and that's why the doctor finds, but says, hmm, it's not your day either.

285
00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:27.720
But in a way, that's more Davidson.

286
00:19:27.779 --> 00:19:29.160
Yeah, a fight scene.

287
00:19:29.220 --> 00:19:32.400
And it continues that theme of everything dying.

288
00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:34.380
The magma creature has to die.

289
00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:37.920
The magma creature is another of sort of Bob Holmes great.

290
00:19:39.059 --> 00:19:45.059
Great loves, like when he has to put in the crap creature that they have to visualise, you know, it's a man creature.

291
00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:46.859
We also get the giant bat as well.

292
00:19:46.920 --> 00:19:47.279
Yeah.

293
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:49.019
Which is kind of true.

294
00:19:49.140 --> 00:19:50.460
At least that's covered in smoke, you know?

295
00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:53.339
Well, I mean, he, when the magma creature attacks someone.

296
00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:54.779
And of course, it's got rubbery hands.

297
00:19:54.839 --> 00:20:02.039
So it stars in the Cliffhanger to episode two, which is very exciting with its rubbery hands.

298
00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:08.880
When the magma creature attacks someone, Graham Harper just makes the camera go out of focus so that we can't see how truly terrible it is.

299
00:20:08.940 --> 00:20:10.140
It is shocking.

300
00:20:10.200 --> 00:20:11.279
It's great abs though.

301
00:20:11.339 --> 00:20:20.460
It's well fit and great sturdy but very short little legs because you know Janet was still actually engaged in being paid for the performance in this.

302
00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:24.839
It probably played in the in the 1st 15, the Andrazani major 1st 15.

303
00:20:25.140 --> 00:20:26.940
No, it's Janet.

304
00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:28.559
She was still being, yeah.

305
00:20:28.619 --> 00:20:30.960
We can never, ever act Janet on Twitter.

306
00:20:33.180 --> 00:20:36.839
My main problem with the magma creature is the stupid cape.

307
00:20:36.900 --> 00:20:38.400
Yeah, why does it have a cape?

308
00:20:38.460 --> 00:20:41.880
And the thing is, it's this rigid carapace that it doesn't quite fill out.

309
00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:46.440
It's covering up something that was even worse.

310
00:20:46.500 --> 00:20:48.119
It gives it a bustle.

311
00:20:48.180 --> 00:20:48.960
Well, I don't know.

312
00:20:49.019 --> 00:20:50.519
Did it look like a penis or something?

313
00:20:50.579 --> 00:20:52.980
That's the only reason to give something a cape in Doctor Who.

314
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:54.660
Sorry, Justin Chatwood. not saying you.

315
00:20:54.779 --> 00:20:56.339
You are.

316
00:20:56.339 --> 00:20:56.880
A penis.

317
00:20:56.940 --> 00:20:57.839
No that would be unkind.

318
00:20:57.900 --> 00:20:58.380
Yes.

319
00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:02.099
However, so who else do we need to talk about?

320
00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:05.099
I mean, Perry's sort of sidelined because she's sick.

321
00:21:05.160 --> 00:21:08.279
Pete's sideline because it's Bob Holmes doing a Seward story.

322
00:21:08.339 --> 00:21:11.279
I think we need to talk about the Trow and the crowd.

323
00:21:11.339 --> 00:21:12.539
Yeah I think we probably do.

324
00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:15.000
You know who they originally cast us, don't you?

325
00:21:15.180 --> 00:21:17.279
Steve and Mrs. Peel.

326
00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:21.420
I wish, and Charles Morgus, and John Normington is just the greatest thing in the history of the universe.

327
00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:26.099
Harper wanted Alan Lake and Diana Dawes.

328
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:26.759
Wow.

329
00:21:26.819 --> 00:21:36.660
We've covered a lot of this in the fabulous story called Underworld when we talked about Dinosaurs and Alan Laker were kind of like the old wheezy couple, but they were both very fine actors.

330
00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:37.980
Alan Lake especially.

331
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:39.180
Very, very good actor.

332
00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:40.859
I think it would have been amazing as Morgus.

333
00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:47.220
And John Normington, I think, is he doesn't get the credit that he deserves for this because I think he's absolutely superb.

334
00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:49.500
Oh, he makes this.

335
00:21:49.500 --> 00:21:55.140
The best thing about him is he's constantly expressing sort of regret and panic.

336
00:21:55.200 --> 00:22:08.339
Think about when the president falls down the lift shaft or when the Northcore copper mine, blows up or whatever, and he's constantly expressing regret or these serious emotions, and he does it in this completely affectless way.

337
00:22:08.700 --> 00:22:09.299
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

338
00:22:09.299 --> 00:22:12.900
Which just makes him sound fabulously, superbly insincere.

339
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:14.220
How tragic.

340
00:22:14.279 --> 00:22:15.779
It could been worse.

341
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:17.160
It could have been me.

342
00:22:17.220 --> 00:22:19.980
Yo, that it's such a chilling line.

343
00:22:20.099 --> 00:22:23.819
Talking of the president down the lift well.

344
00:22:23.880 --> 00:22:25.559
Like, I mean, I just remember that as a kid.

345
00:22:25.619 --> 00:22:31.859
It's just something that just sticks in your mind, like the fact that he's, he's just done a, and have the attendant shot as well.

346
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:32.940
A technician shot.

347
00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:34.559
It's just like, really?

348
00:22:34.619 --> 00:22:35.880
like you've just planned all this.

349
00:22:35.940 --> 00:22:44.880
It always bobs back into my mind because in LA law a few years later, there was a character called Rosalind Shays played by Diana...

350
00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:45.420
Moldar.

351
00:22:45.420 --> 00:22:47.099
TV's Dr. Pulaski.

352
00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:51.000
And she was sort of the semi-regular evil sort of bitch villain.

353
00:22:51.059 --> 00:22:59.160
They call the lift, and next thing you know, she's talking to one of the guys and just walks straight in and the lift hasn't arrived and she falls to her death, you know?

354
00:22:59.220 --> 00:23:06.660
And I just, and I always think of case of Andersani and think, whoever wrote that episode of LA Law, I reckon must have seen this episode of Doctor Who.

355
00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:08.940
It's tremendous the way that Morgus.

356
00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:15.059
Morgus goes to shake his hand at the president who moves his hand towards him and then he just pushes him instead.

357
00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:16.319
It's so terrific.

358
00:23:16.380 --> 00:23:18.359
And the president is wonderful as well.

359
00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:23.039
He's got this sort of great posh voice and there's all this stuff about morality.

360
00:23:23.099 --> 00:23:25.680
The president almost risks being a good guy.

361
00:23:25.740 --> 00:23:33.299
Yes, there's the level of my, I've had to suppress my ethics for power, but he actually does believe himself to be a moral man.

362
00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:35.220
He certainly judges morgas.

363
00:23:35.279 --> 00:23:41.819
Remember, there's that conversation about closing some of the plants in the east so that people can work for no pain.

364
00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:43.920
Exactly, which, well, welcome to Australia.

365
00:23:43.980 --> 00:23:49.200
Do you not over in the West for less than $2 a day if Ms. Reinhardt can bring them in?

366
00:23:49.259 --> 00:23:50.279
It's so topical.

367
00:23:50.339 --> 00:24:00.059
But I think it gives us a really lovely posit of something Holmes was always talking about the politicians are actually powerless, no matter how decent their motivations may be.

368
00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:03.599
They are nothing but puppets that can be dropped from a great height whenever necessary.

369
00:24:03.660 --> 00:24:05.160
And he is cynical.

370
00:24:05.220 --> 00:24:07.079
I mean, the president still is cynical.

371
00:24:07.140 --> 00:24:10.799
He goes, you know, I suppose we might make that seem morally justifiable.

372
00:24:10.859 --> 00:24:11.640
Yeah.

373
00:24:11.700 --> 00:24:15.539
And I mean, Holmes is a great cynic and here he just gives it free reign.

374
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:17.279
Not a lot of new hope in this, is there?

375
00:24:17.339 --> 00:24:18.240
It really isn't.

376
00:24:18.299 --> 00:24:20.519
No, no, it's very it's very much a hopeless story.

377
00:24:20.579 --> 00:24:23.819
As a kid, I really disliked all the asides.

378
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:26.339
When he turns to camera.

379
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:27.539
Look, I just hated it.

380
00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:29.220
You didn't have BBC Shakespeare.

381
00:24:29.220 --> 00:24:32.220
Well, you were having to sit through all of those Lala wards doing side-eye.

382
00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:39.059
And I just felt it got worse and worse is like at 1st it's at the to the side and then it's directly into the camera.

383
00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:40.619
And I really disliked that.

384
00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:43.680
Maybe if you'd been 3 or 4 years older, because we loved it.

385
00:24:43.740 --> 00:24:44.880
What do you do now?

386
00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:48.420
No, but we were 15, we're sorry, I'm just, this is the best thing ever.

387
00:24:48.480 --> 00:24:49.980
I just went, oh, really?

388
00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:55.440
Now I still am annoyed by the direct shots to camera later on.

389
00:24:55.500 --> 00:24:57.059
I like the earlier sides.

390
00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:03.180
I mean, you know, I've got that baggage from a kid and as a kid and I, you know, but I think his performance is great and then...

391
00:25:03.180 --> 00:25:04.259
You know, it's an accident, don't they?

392
00:25:04.259 --> 00:25:13.799
Yeah, the notes were to slightly askance to the camera, but Normington interpreted doing it as Jacobean drama is, you know, as Cod Shakespeare's.

393
00:25:13.859 --> 00:25:15.839
Yeah, and apparently...

394
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:18.059
You remember House of Cards where Ian...

395
00:25:18.059 --> 00:25:34.019
In Richardson very, very frequently turns to Cameron and it just shows his control of the entire television program, that there can be people around him actually listening to him and he's so confident that he can just deliver it soliloquy. bring that up because when you see Spacey do it over the period.

396
00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:37.319
How long has Cast of Cards of US been going 17 seasons, something like that?

397
00:25:37.380 --> 00:25:38.339
Yeah, something like that.

398
00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:39.000
Four at least.

399
00:25:39.000 --> 00:25:39.660
Yeah, 14.

400
00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:40.380
Okay, yeah.

401
00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:43.079
But it's so successful.

402
00:25:43.140 --> 00:25:44.940
Those are sides.

403
00:25:44.940 --> 00:25:46.440
Because it's weird.

404
00:25:46.500 --> 00:25:49.259
I had this one on video as a kid, but...

405
00:25:49.259 --> 00:25:53.460
I don't recall ever watching it in full.

406
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:57.359
I would fast forward to the end and I would watch the regeneration scene over and over again.

407
00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:11.160
Spoiler alert, um, but I don't, you know, I don't know if it scared me or there was something else I didn't like about it, but I never watched the full story until it came out on DVD in, what, 2000, 2001.

408
00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:13.440
Just check the show notes, it'll tell you.

409
00:26:13.500 --> 00:26:13.980
Yeah.

410
00:26:14.039 --> 00:26:19.259
So, you know, 1st time I watched this, I was 18, 19.

411
00:26:19.500 --> 00:26:24.299
And those asides, I knew there were asides.

412
00:26:24.359 --> 00:26:30.000
I knew that, but the 1st time, and I think his very 1st aside is straight down the camera.

413
00:26:30.059 --> 00:26:32.519
The 1st time he turned to the camera, I jumped in my seat.

414
00:26:32.579 --> 00:26:34.140
It's really funny.

415
00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:37.200
I think he just says, you spineless critton or something like that.

416
00:26:37.259 --> 00:26:43.859
I mean, I just thought it was part of the direction and what makes this story stand out is that direction.

417
00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:46.859
And also, isn't it a 3D shop where they walk around?

418
00:26:47.579 --> 00:26:51.119
Oh, that, yeah, that magnificent 3D monitor in the middle of the room. yeah.

419
00:26:51.180 --> 00:26:54.359
Yeah, which is something that, you know, hasn't hadn't been done before as well.

420
00:26:54.420 --> 00:26:56.700
So, you know, I think I think they do work.

421
00:26:56.759 --> 00:27:00.359
I mean, I'm not, yeah, I think, you know, the direction.

422
00:27:00.420 --> 00:27:10.019
But one of my overriding things is in the Australian broadcast is at the end of episode 4 where the mask is pulled off Sheriff's check.

423
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:16.019
It cuts from the mask being pulled off to the whole labs on fire and everybody's dead.

424
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:16.559
Right?

425
00:27:16.619 --> 00:27:18.539
That's one of the overriding things.

426
00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:20.160
I remember I just went, what the hell?

427
00:27:20.220 --> 00:27:28.140
Like the fact that his face is so hideous has caused this entire destruction like within a second, but obviously I knew the sensors got to it.

428
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:33.000
And it's one of the few times in Doctor Who, where I really went, oh my goodness, you know, there has been a big cut.

429
00:27:33.059 --> 00:27:34.319
So there are quite a few cards.

430
00:27:34.380 --> 00:27:38.640
So when Sharon's Jack threatens to pull the doctor's arms and legs off, that's cunt.

431
00:27:38.700 --> 00:27:46.140
The scene where Stotts and Kralpa, where Stotts is holding Kralpa down, has a knife to his neck and is forcing him to eat a cyanide peel.

432
00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:47.099
That's cut.

433
00:27:47.160 --> 00:28:01.019
The scene where Stots and it's a fantastic scene, where Stots and Morgus go off, leaving Kralpa behind in the shuttle and then Stots comes back and just casually guns crop her down and smiles and then leaves that was cut completely.

434
00:28:01.079 --> 00:28:13.559
And I've objected to that sort of thing in Doctor Who, you know, over the last little while to, you know, pus coming out of people's faces and people screaming in terrors, they're killed and all of that sort of thing.

435
00:28:13.619 --> 00:28:16.380
Like, I don't think that that's right for tea time TV.

436
00:28:16.440 --> 00:28:21.539
But here, I just think it's, it's so confidently done and so good.

437
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:24.359
And it is kind of Bob Holmes.

438
00:28:24.420 --> 00:28:33.779
You know, Bob Holmes has this thing where he gives, say, would what, say, would want in a kind of stuff you sort of way.

439
00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:36.839
But it's just done with more, well, intelligence.

440
00:28:36.900 --> 00:28:38.640
Yeah, it's so well done.

441
00:28:38.700 --> 00:28:40.619
It's done with characters.

442
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:43.380
It's rather than archetypes.

443
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:44.880
Which we were talking about in the beginning.

444
00:28:44.940 --> 00:28:49.079
There is no action that is not without the character's full motivation.

445
00:28:49.140 --> 00:28:50.700
It's not saying going to the plot.

446
00:28:50.819 --> 00:28:54.960
So think of that scene with Stotts and Krelp, where Stotts is force feeding him the pill.

447
00:28:55.019 --> 00:28:56.460
It's very powerful.

448
00:28:56.579 --> 00:28:59.940
So it starts, stots is lying on the ground relaxing.

449
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:01.619
Krelpa stands over him.

450
00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:06.480
Harper shoots between Cralper's legs at Stotts who's lying down.

451
00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:14.400
And then there's that conflict where it's all about men manning and being men at each other and that kind of thing.

452
00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:16.740
You manned me in the face.

453
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:17.940
That really hurt.

454
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:18.839
Sorry, go on.

455
00:29:18.900 --> 00:29:24.000
But then the end of the scene is the exact reverse of that where Kralpa has been defeated.

456
00:29:24.059 --> 00:29:30.180
He's lying exactly where Stotts was lying and the camera is now shooting between Stotts' legs.

457
00:29:30.180 --> 00:29:32.400
It's so thoughtful and so well done.

458
00:29:32.460 --> 00:29:43.619
It's grotesque and it's over the top and it's super violent and stuff, but it's, it's really, really good at establishing the relationship between Stotts and Kralpa.

459
00:29:43.680 --> 00:29:48.539
I have to say, because it's been a while since I've treated the listeners to a comment from Broad.

460
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:57.599
Yeah, that scene, the end of that scene, we both just looked at each other and at the end of the story when he was giving me his notes.

461
00:29:57.660 --> 00:29:59.160
He's like, that bit with the pill.

462
00:29:59.220 --> 00:30:00.299
Bit homorotic.

463
00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:00.900
I like, yeah.

464
00:30:01.019 --> 00:30:04.799
Yeah, and it helps that it's Maurice Roves.

465
00:30:04.859 --> 00:30:06.839
Yes, isn't he tremendous?

466
00:30:06.900 --> 00:30:09.779
He is special import, Maurice Rue.

467
00:30:09.839 --> 00:30:13.200
And a special import twice, in fact, because he did live in the States.

468
00:30:13.259 --> 00:30:16.740
And the original location filming.

469
00:30:16.799 --> 00:30:20.460
There was a scratch on the film and they had to recall him.

470
00:30:20.519 --> 00:30:21.420
Wow.

471
00:30:21.420 --> 00:30:33.720
And it was remounted between the 2 studio blocks, which presented a problem because if they couldn't get him for that location filming, they already had one studio block with him the stots.

472
00:30:33.779 --> 00:30:36.539
They couldn't recast the part, they would have had to rewrite all the stuff.

473
00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:42.660
He was already back in the States because I think everything he had to do in studio was done in the 1st studio session.

474
00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:46.440
But he said, yes, of course, you know, of course I'll come back over.

475
00:30:46.500 --> 00:30:48.660
You have to pay for my flights and accommodation and whatnot.

476
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:54.779
But I don't think he even asked for an extra fee or if he did, it was not a rush fee or anything like that.

477
00:30:54.839 --> 00:30:59.039
He was quite happy to come over and do it because he enjoyed the work so much and the quality of the script.

478
00:30:59.099 --> 00:31:02.039
And because he was just sitting by the pool otherwise, wasn't he?

479
00:31:02.099 --> 00:31:03.900
With all those lovely pounds around him.

480
00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:07.380
Why do you have to send overseas for an actor?

481
00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:09.299
He is really good.

482
00:31:09.359 --> 00:31:14.579
And I think they were trying to recreate Scorbi, but I mean, he's better than Scorbi from Seeds of Doom.

483
00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:15.180
Is that right?

484
00:31:15.240 --> 00:31:15.900
Did I dream?

485
00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:17.220
Or Captain Peacock, right?

486
00:31:17.220 --> 00:31:18.839
Or Captain Peacock.

487
00:31:18.900 --> 00:31:21.059
He does play a Romulan many years later.

488
00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:23.519
Are you being served reboot, Todd?

489
00:31:23.579 --> 00:31:25.140
Yeah, Scorbit.

490
00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:25.559
Yeah, okay.

491
00:31:25.619 --> 00:31:27.599
Yes, not Maurice Rose.

492
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:30.539
No, he's Miss Brahms.

493
00:31:31.319 --> 00:31:36.000
He's a Romulan in a really terrible CC6 Star Trek episode.

494
00:31:36.059 --> 00:31:39.480
Yeah, that's right Which also features Linda Thawson.

495
00:31:39.900 --> 00:31:40.799
As a Cardassian.

496
00:31:40.859 --> 00:31:45.000
And it's just like, I wish she'd come back on Deep Space now, because she's fabulous.

497
00:31:45.059 --> 00:31:45.960
She's really good in that.

498
00:31:46.019 --> 00:31:49.920
She just walks in and insults everyone without even opening her mouth.

499
00:31:49.980 --> 00:31:50.940
She's brilliant.

500
00:31:51.299 --> 00:31:53.220
Speaking of brilliant.

501
00:31:53.759 --> 00:31:54.480
Crow timid.

502
00:31:54.539 --> 00:31:56.039
Yes.

503
00:31:56.039 --> 00:31:57.660
I think she's wonderful.

504
00:31:57.720 --> 00:32:05.819
And I just like the way how she swans in and is asked to do all this sort of stuff and you kind of, you kind of not sure if she's really taking any interest in it all.

505
00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:11.099
And then it's just so delicious when she just turns the table on Morgus at the end.

506
00:32:11.160 --> 00:32:21.420
But, you know, to promote this secretary to this position, she has obviously got files on so many people and it's not like she's actually really a nice person because she's in it for herself to get that job.

507
00:32:21.480 --> 00:32:26.279
But it's, it's a, I just think it's a fantastic moment in the story.

508
00:32:26.339 --> 00:32:34.920
She does question him one time is that there's a wonderful moment where Sharon's Jack says that he wants the head of Morgas at his feet congealed in its own evil blood.

509
00:32:35.039 --> 00:32:43.500
And then we crossfade to the head of Morgas and the head of Morgas is issuing the directive about the director of the Southcore copper mine.

510
00:32:43.559 --> 00:32:47.220
I think every time I mention that mine, it's from a different point of a compass. which one it is.

511
00:32:47.279 --> 00:33:04.380
But he's died, and he orders all of the staff to stand silently for a minute in remembrance of him, and then he goes, no, wait a minute, make that half a minute, that she kind of does the eyebrow as him as if she, you know, can scarcely believe it.

512
00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:15.539
And that final scene where she comes in, she's at Morgas's desk and she just completely schools Morgas and tells him off and she does it.

513
00:33:15.660 --> 00:33:17.819
Like not from close-up.

514
00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:19.259
We never actually see her directly.

515
00:33:19.380 --> 00:33:20.940
She's on a video screen.

516
00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:24.539
She's like on a television, which is, you know, in the middle of the frame.

517
00:33:24.599 --> 00:33:32.220
She's not very big in the frame, but she absolutely controls the scene, nevertheless, and she's sitting there with her feet on Morgas's desk.

518
00:33:32.339 --> 00:33:33.420
She's just tremendous.

519
00:33:33.480 --> 00:33:37.859
That, though, is so Shakespearean as well.

520
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:50.160
Not just the betrayal of the lieutenant, if you like, but say at the end of Macbeth, when the battle is being lost, a soldier comes in and says to Macbeth, the battle is being lost and it's just all off stage.

521
00:33:50.220 --> 00:33:55.680
Well, this is off stage and it's so off stage, it's just in the video monitor.

522
00:33:55.740 --> 00:34:04.619
It's just from the perspective of Morgas, who is the hubristic figure in this, just like Macbeth was, and Morgas has killed the king.

523
00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:06.299
He's killed the president.

524
00:34:06.839 --> 00:34:14.460
Not exactly to assume the office of the president, but to assume the power, as Macbeth does, as well.

525
00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:21.179
And in this, you've got Krautim and just reporting from afar, you know, the battle is lost, sir, right?

526
00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:22.500
The messenger from the battlefield.

527
00:34:22.860 --> 00:34:35.699
But it's got that modern twist of, yeah, if Shakespeare had had video screens at the back of the stage, he would have used that kind of thing, you know, because that is the modern messenger at this point.

528
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:41.820
It's really clever of Holmes and Harper and especially the way Harper shoots it.

529
00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:42.659
Yeah.

530
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:45.900
Yeah, we're not even the camera isn't even directly on the video screen.

531
00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:47.280
The video screens at an angle.

532
00:34:47.340 --> 00:34:47.820
It in the middle.

533
00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:52.320
It's not a very big part of the frame, but she completely owns that scene.

534
00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:59.219
And especially it's it's the only time that Morgus looks surprised in the whole story.

535
00:34:59.460 --> 00:35:02.639
And even then his voice doesn't waver.

536
00:35:02.699 --> 00:35:05.280
He's still got that crap.

537
00:35:05.340 --> 00:35:05.940
Why?

538
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:07.440
Are you sitting at my desk?

539
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:10.079
He's so good.

540
00:35:10.139 --> 00:35:18.719
Well, I don't think there's a weak performance in any of this, and we've talked about Chelac, and Sharon's Jack, and Morgus, and...

541
00:35:18.719 --> 00:35:19.440
Janet Field.

542
00:35:19.500 --> 00:35:27.659
Salatine is, for me, initially, whenever I watch this, I kind of think, oh, that performance, but those teeth.

543
00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:29.340
I know looking, isn't he?

544
00:35:29.460 --> 00:35:39.960
to the fact that he's playing an Android, and then you see the difference in the actual real one versus his Android version, and it makes me appreciate what he's doing, what he's doing.

545
00:35:40.019 --> 00:35:44.880
But initially, I kind of always go, I always go, you're a big crap, but I understand why.

546
00:35:44.940 --> 00:36:00.360
I think the Android is spectacular, and there are some great moments where, so for instance, he sees the real Salatine and Perry in the next room through the wall, but he doesn't say anything, and it's all just told visually, and he has this great eyebrow thing as well.

547
00:36:00.420 --> 00:36:07.619
He's constantly behind Shellac because Shellac's always forward in the frame and and Salatin's behind him talking to him.

548
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:11.219
And he does lots of turning and raising his eyebrow.

549
00:36:11.280 --> 00:36:20.940
And there's that wonderful thing where Pete suggests to Shara's Jack that Salatin can't be a perfect copy and that someone will eventually see through it.

550
00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:30.179
And again, we cut, or maybe even crossfade, to an interaction between Salatine, where Salatine is just super ludicrously efficient.

551
00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:33.780
Yeah, you know, in this really preposterous way.

552
00:36:33.840 --> 00:36:38.940
And then we cut back and there's no dialogue explaining why we're going to that or anything like that.

553
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:43.079
It is just this, and here's why Salatine's not going to be convincing.

554
00:36:43.139 --> 00:36:50.400
Yeah, you can see how fastbinders completely based your entire performance, but alien Prometheus and Covenant is coming up.

555
00:36:50.519 --> 00:37:06.960
I think also, Salatin is another example of characters who you might expect to be good guys being evil, and it happens twice that when a character is told that both Perry and the doctor are suffering from spectroxoxemia, The character laughs at them.

556
00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:13.199
And Salatine laughs uproariously at the revelation and is kind of glad about it.

557
00:37:13.260 --> 00:37:17.280
And so he's evil as well. everyone we meet is evil.

558
00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:25.800
The thing is, though, with that laugh, I've got a slightly different interpretation of it, he's been prisoner with Sharon's Jack for months.

559
00:37:25.860 --> 00:37:28.500
So all he's got for company are Androids and a Madman.

560
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:32.820
He's started to go a little bit mad himself and that laugh he does.

561
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:33.360
It's not.

562
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:36.239
It's not a kind of I find this hilarious laugh.

563
00:37:36.300 --> 00:37:42.179
It's an hysterical, ironic reaction, and it's not because they're dying.

564
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:44.880
It's because Shara's jack has been foiled again.

565
00:37:44.940 --> 00:37:49.920
Yeah, although he does say to the doctor, I don't suppose you see the funny side of it.

566
00:37:49.980 --> 00:37:51.239
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

567
00:37:51.300 --> 00:37:53.519
And yeah, I love the doctor's reaction to it.

568
00:37:53.579 --> 00:37:55.079
Oh, marvellous sense of humour.

569
00:37:55.139 --> 00:37:55.980
What do you mean we're dying?

570
00:37:56.099 --> 00:37:59.639
Pete is so darkly funny in this.

571
00:37:59.699 --> 00:38:07.440
Like when Shara's joke is saying, oh, you know, I've got company now, the doctor says, oh, yes, long walks on the beach, picnics, well-prepared meals, that sort of thing.

572
00:38:07.500 --> 00:38:10.980
It's it's homes again, and we talked.

573
00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:21.059
We talked about this when Bidmead was writing for the doctor in Frontios, and he just said, stuff that I'm writing, Tom Baker dialogue, and Pete delivering that just absolutely Sean.

574
00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:25.679
And here you've got smart mouth, Pete. doing what he should always have done.

575
00:38:25.739 --> 00:38:30.000
I mean, it's still the same acting performance, but he's got such good dialogue to play.

576
00:38:30.059 --> 00:38:31.320
It is his best performance.

577
00:38:31.380 --> 00:38:32.639
Yeah definitely.

578
00:38:32.699 --> 00:38:42.000
And, you know, he even tries to kind of laugh Perry out of it when they're prisoners and they're about to be sent before a firing squad and he's making jokes with her.

579
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.099
Do try and speak English, Paris.

580
00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:44.820
Yeah, yeah.

581
00:38:44.880 --> 00:38:50.820
But it's kind of gentle and when she does say that she's scared, he doesn't then dismiss it.

582
00:38:50.940 --> 00:38:52.800
He like, oh, okay, I'll stop doing the jokes now.

583
00:38:52.860 --> 00:38:54.840
And Nicola is brilliant in that scene.

584
00:38:54.900 --> 00:38:55.920
She says, like, I don't mind dying.

585
00:38:55.980 --> 00:38:58.619
I, I, I don't want to be shot.

586
00:38:58.679 --> 00:39:00.900
It's just a very subtle thing.

587
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:14.340
Thing is, when he's then pacing up and down trying to figure it out, she is also looking around the situation and kind of warns him that, well, you don't have very long, I think they're about ready for us, you know, she is incredibly brave.

588
00:39:14.460 --> 00:39:26.639
She gets that funny line too, about when they're discussing the itching and the blisters and stuff like that, and she says, I don't suppose we'll die of it in the next hour, which I think is really pretty terrific.

589
00:39:26.699 --> 00:39:27.599
Yeah.

590
00:39:27.659 --> 00:39:38.400
And we did lose another scene on the last studio day in the Tartars because this show, this story and then the twin dilemma was affected by industrial action as well.

591
00:39:38.460 --> 00:39:39.659
The scene shifter strike.

592
00:39:39.719 --> 00:39:46.800
So the last studio session of this was actually the 1st studio session of the twin dilemma, which we'll be discussing in a couple of weeks.

593
00:39:46.860 --> 00:39:56.519
Then the last studio day overran and they very wisely said, we've got to get the regeneration and we'll do that 1st and if we get time, we'll do the opening scene.

594
00:39:56.579 --> 00:40:02.820
And the opening scene was meant to be explaining why they'd come to Androsani Minor.

595
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:04.320
I think you can work it out, right?

596
00:40:04.380 --> 00:40:09.539
I haven't seen the scene, but they came there to get some sand to get some glass to make a new reticular vector gauge.

597
00:40:09.659 --> 00:40:10.260
That's right.

598
00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:11.099
That's right.

599
00:40:11.159 --> 00:40:15.059
And what the conversation essentially is, is the doctor explains all that.

600
00:40:15.059 --> 00:40:17.940
And she's, and Perry said, oh, do you have glass making material?

601
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:24.059
Oh, I learned glass blowing from the monks of Barastoboln 6 and she says to him, what were you doing in a monastery?

602
00:40:24.119 --> 00:40:28.380
And he says, I haven't known you long enough to tell you that.

603
00:40:28.679 --> 00:40:31.139
Oh, you're such a pain doctor.

604
00:40:31.199 --> 00:40:34.619
And that so when they dropped that scene.

605
00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:41.039
They decided it was too long to just have it in overlay as we get as we get in the finished product.

606
00:40:41.099 --> 00:40:56.940
So they went back and just redubbed enough information to get through to the new scene, but it does then give Perry that weird line of, they wanted, they wanted to get some sand, to blow some glass, to create a new reticular factor cage.

607
00:40:57.000 --> 00:40:58.920
Yes, your accent does drop there.

608
00:40:58.980 --> 00:40:59.940
I did note that in my notes.

609
00:41:00.059 --> 00:41:06.960
I actually wondered whether there had been something in that scene about Pete making fun of her for saying glass and so she says gloss.

610
00:41:07.019 --> 00:41:07.619
You'd think so.

611
00:41:07.619 --> 00:41:09.360
It's a possibility, certainly.

612
00:41:09.420 --> 00:41:10.920
That's a pretty masterful thing.

613
00:41:10.980 --> 00:41:12.059
There's a beautiful glass shot.

614
00:41:12.119 --> 00:41:22.199
A glass shot at the beginning by the artist, Jean-Pierre, who did glass shots earlier in the season and for Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

615
00:41:22.260 --> 00:41:26.699
The only thing is, because it's film kind of wobbles, but on the DVD, they fixed that.

616
00:41:26.760 --> 00:41:35.340
So it doesn't wobble and the glass shot is nice and stable, but you can select that as an additional option, dear listener, for those of you, for those of you on the...

617
00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:40.019
Yeah, yeah. who want to wobble who want the original spanner in the pirate planet.

618
00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:40.679
God damn it.

619
00:41:41.820 --> 00:41:46.619
We have 2 cliffhangers that we need to talk about before we leave this story.

620
00:41:46.619 --> 00:41:49.679
And one of them is the cliffhanger to episode one.

621
00:41:49.739 --> 00:41:52.199
Do any of you, not you, Brendan?

622
00:41:52.260 --> 00:41:54.119
Do any of you remember this as a child?

623
00:41:54.179 --> 00:42:03.659
Yes, and I thought, how, you know, they get shot and, well, well, the guns go off and I actually stood sat there going, How are they going to get out of this?

624
00:42:03.719 --> 00:42:06.900
Did we had conversations about it at school the next day?

625
00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:20.099
Yeah, well, we've just seen the Diana Reek episode, The Living Dead, on 1st broadcast after about 15 years, on Australian TV, the same year, and which was a similar thing, but you hear the guns going off and there's Emma Peel.

626
00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:23.460
I think the only time we ever see her with a machine gun, killing 12 people.

627
00:42:23.460 --> 00:42:24.900
And she does.

628
00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:26.280
Yeah, and she's really good at it.

629
00:42:26.340 --> 00:42:27.659
Actually, could have a bit more of this.

630
00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:29.940
Um, and saves Patrick McNee.

631
00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:31.320
So it's almost shot for shot.

632
00:42:31.380 --> 00:42:33.239
So, if you'll pardon the pun.

633
00:42:33.300 --> 00:42:39.719
So in this one, um, yeah, it was, it was, it was the topic of conversation over the sale.

634
00:42:40.619 --> 00:42:48.599
It's done like a magic trick as well, because, you know, they put the, they pull the cloak down over their faces and the music is all these, these drum rolls.

635
00:42:48.599 --> 00:42:51.119
Like 2 plum puddings waiting to be immersed, yes.

636
00:42:51.179 --> 00:43:00.780
And it isn't quite a cheat, I think, because you do get that montage of Sharon's jack. got the 2 of them on the screen.

637
00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:02.579
He sends for 2 androids.

638
00:43:02.639 --> 00:43:04.139
There's things going through pipes.

639
00:43:04.199 --> 00:43:05.400
He's pressing some buttons.

640
00:43:05.460 --> 00:43:12.599
They're curiously affectless when they are about to be executed so they could be Androids.

641
00:43:12.659 --> 00:43:15.900
So it's he doesn't just pull it out of a hat.

642
00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:21.179
And the way it's resolved is so incredibly well done because we get the execution.

643
00:43:21.239 --> 00:43:22.559
We see that they're dead.

644
00:43:22.619 --> 00:43:23.820
They get cut down.

645
00:43:23.880 --> 00:43:28.679
We go back to the conversation between Morgas and the president that was interrupted at the end of episode one.

646
00:43:28.739 --> 00:43:37.079
Uh, and then we see Pete and Perry walking into uh, Sharon's Jack's headquarters and only then do we find out that they were Androids.

647
00:43:37.139 --> 00:43:41.699
I do think that it's hilarious that Sharistjet can just produce these androids very, very quickly.

648
00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:43.079
He's got a great production line.

649
00:43:43.139 --> 00:43:44.340
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

650
00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:47.760
I think the master and probably Rex Farrell helped him install it.

651
00:43:47.820 --> 00:43:49.679
Well, you want to know something, though.

652
00:43:49.739 --> 00:43:52.380
Salatine did see them a while ago.

653
00:43:52.440 --> 00:44:00.000
So salad, Android saladine could have been relaying information back, you know, like data and Star Trek can very quickly measure things.

654
00:44:00.059 --> 00:44:02.760
But he has cameras everywhere. you did have a shot of them.

655
00:44:02.820 --> 00:44:05.400
There's 2 things I love about that cliffhanger so much.

656
00:44:05.460 --> 00:44:14.159
And one of them is the president's line just before the cliffhanger, who he's disgusted by the fact they're getting the red shroud for executions because the red shroud was for soldiers.

657
00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:18.960
And Morgus kind, Morgus kind of looks at him like, what does it matter?

658
00:44:19.019 --> 00:44:20.280
Yeah, you are crazy.

659
00:44:20.699 --> 00:44:25.019
The other thing I love about this cliffhanger is apparently as scripted.

660
00:44:25.679 --> 00:44:29.400
The music was meant to come in before the gun's fired.

661
00:44:29.460 --> 00:44:31.500
It was meant to be ready, aim.

662
00:44:31.860 --> 00:44:39.840
But, It was Graham Harper who said, no, let's actually have the guns firing.

663
00:44:39.900 --> 00:44:40.679
Make it even more.

664
00:44:40.739 --> 00:44:42.960
As you say, Todd, how are they going to get out of this one?

665
00:44:43.019 --> 00:44:49.860
And I think that is such a great subversion because we expect it to be ready aimed.

666
00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:59.400
We expect it to be the doctor kneeling down with the with the miller overhead with the scythe and then someone comes in and says, stop.

667
00:44:59.460 --> 00:45:03.179
But no, nobody...

668
00:45:03.239 --> 00:45:09.960
Yeah, and that's, so maybe that's, you know, Robert Holmes subverting again, although, and I'm not saying this to be uncharitable.

669
00:45:10.019 --> 00:45:12.900
I doubt Robert Holmes was watching every week, if at all.

670
00:45:13.019 --> 00:45:14.639
You know, he probably...

671
00:45:14.639 --> 00:45:16.679
He hadn't seen Peter Davis.

672
00:45:16.739 --> 00:45:17.340
He wrote for Tom.

673
00:45:19.019 --> 00:45:20.280
It works so well though, doesn't it?

674
00:45:20.340 --> 00:45:24.300
Yeah, which means you can just, as we've said before, you can write great lines and any actor can do it.

675
00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:26.699
You don't write for a doctor, you write for the doctor.

676
00:45:26.760 --> 00:45:42.659
But I will say that when I saw this at 18, obviously I knew they weren't dead at the end of episode one, because I'd seen the regeneration, but I didn't know the beats of the story, I didn't know how they got out of it, and then the great storytelling trick is as soon as they walk into Shara's Jack, you go, of course he can make androids.

677
00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:43.500
Yeah.

678
00:45:43.559 --> 00:45:47.699
It is that thing where it's not, do they survive that we care about?

679
00:45:47.760 --> 00:45:48.840
It's how do they survive?

680
00:45:48.900 --> 00:45:54.539
And so having them survive before you say how they survive, I think was terribly clever.

681
00:45:54.659 --> 00:45:55.559
Yes, yes.

682
00:45:55.619 --> 00:45:57.599
The other cliffhanger?

683
00:45:57.659 --> 00:46:00.960
Well, the cliffhanger, is it a cliffhanger?

684
00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:04.139
Let's call it the end of episode four.

685
00:46:04.199 --> 00:46:05.460
Okay, the regeneration.

686
00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:05.940
Yeah.

687
00:46:05.940 --> 00:46:09.719
So Pete's almost upstage by Nicola's cleavage.

688
00:46:09.780 --> 00:46:12.000
He likes to go on about that story.

689
00:46:12.059 --> 00:46:19.440
It's the 1st regeneration where there hasn't really been an arc or any other over umbrella meaning overwinning meaning to it.

690
00:46:19.500 --> 00:46:33.780
There isn't a journey, there isn't, you know, the self-discovery, there isn't, there's, there's, in other, in every other's, Doctor Who renewal, if you want to call it, for that, and the confidence about to presage that as well, isn't he?

691
00:46:33.840 --> 00:46:36.119
But there's always been some meaning behind it here.

692
00:46:36.179 --> 00:46:37.739
It's just another incident to the plot.

693
00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:44.820
It's meaningless and that's what Holmes is always, that's Holmes's really cynical humour is, yeah, this has just happened because somebody made a wrong term.

694
00:46:44.880 --> 00:46:46.559
I think that that's true.

695
00:46:46.619 --> 00:46:52.380
Like he dies sort of by accident, but he's also found himself in a situation where his stuff doesn't work anymore.

696
00:46:52.440 --> 00:46:54.599
And the thing that reminded me.

697
00:46:54.599 --> 00:46:57.119
Yeah, being charming doesn't save you in this world.

698
00:46:57.179 --> 00:47:00.659
I'm the doctor and this is my friend Perry and it has no effect.

699
00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:02.099
He gets shut down immediately.

700
00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:19.559
And the thing that reminded me most of is episode one of the war games, where the doctor turns up for all we know in World War one, which is a real historical, a real horrific historical event, and he has no power to prevent himself from being executed at the at the end of that 1st episode.

701
00:47:19.619 --> 00:47:21.420
And it seems inevitable.

702
00:47:21.480 --> 00:47:23.159
He can't do anything, none of his charm.

703
00:47:23.219 --> 00:47:24.599
None of his usual stuff works.

704
00:47:24.659 --> 00:47:29.460
And here, all of Pete's usual stuff just completely fails to work.

705
00:47:29.519 --> 00:47:38.519
And this is a story where he hasn't saved anyone. where he hasn't changed anything, where he's been powerless to have any effect on this situation.

706
00:47:38.579 --> 00:47:43.199
So it's finally the doctor faces the situation that just kills him.

707
00:47:43.380 --> 00:47:53.039
What I, what I like about that sort of tension, though, is, and it's happened a lot to Peter Davidson's doctor, that he's a bit of a, he's a bit of a whipping boy of the universe.

708
00:47:53.099 --> 00:47:55.199
You know, something goes wrong.

709
00:47:55.260 --> 00:47:58.320
He immediately gets locked up and the plot keeps on happening without him.

710
00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:00.360
Where is here?

711
00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:03.659
This may be part of your objection, Tom.

712
00:48:03.659 --> 00:48:05.579
No, I'm not objecting.

713
00:48:05.639 --> 00:48:06.840
I agree completely.

714
00:48:06.900 --> 00:48:09.960
It was yeah, a lot of wastage of the principal character, yeah.

715
00:48:10.019 --> 00:48:13.320
But here, you know, he spends the 1st 3 episodes trying to be charming.

716
00:48:13.380 --> 00:48:14.159
He tries to charm.

717
00:48:14.219 --> 00:48:19.079
Chelak, he tries to charm Chero's Jack. tries to charm, stots, and he tries to charm Morgas.

718
00:48:19.199 --> 00:48:21.239
Android, he tries to charm that Android.

719
00:48:21.300 --> 00:48:22.260
Yeah, thing is that works.

720
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:27.719
And I love that x-ray thing where his hearts are outside his lapels.

721
00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:34.019
But, um, what seems to happen is after he's tried to charm Morgas and that hasn't worked.

722
00:48:34.079 --> 00:48:37.380
I think he's kind of figured out, you know, he's going up the food chain a bit.

723
00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:44.940
So, you know, a general, then the general's enemy, then the general's enemy's enemy, and then the general's enemy's enemy, the boss.

724
00:48:45.000 --> 00:48:49.199
And at that point, he just goes, Okay, you know what?

725
00:48:49.260 --> 00:48:50.760
It's not working.

726
00:48:50.820 --> 00:48:51.900
You want me to be mean?

727
00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:52.980
You want me to be nasty?

728
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:54.179
I'm going to steal this ship.

729
00:48:54.239 --> 00:48:55.079
I going to crash it.

730
00:48:55.139 --> 00:48:58.079
I'm going to get back to my friend and to hell with a lot of you.

731
00:48:58.199 --> 00:49:02.639
And he becomes this really powerful character, but he doesn't forget his manners.

732
00:49:02.699 --> 00:49:05.760
Because when Stotts burns through the door to get to him.

733
00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:07.320
He says, ah, starts in.

734
00:49:07.380 --> 00:49:08.940
Have you enjoyed your rest?

735
00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:11.400
You might want to hold on to something, Cos.

736
00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:13.139
I don't know how to land this thing.

737
00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:15.239
And that's the thing.

738
00:49:15.300 --> 00:49:24.599
He, in becoming this more action-driven character who has kind of gone, I've given you all the chance. forget all of you.

739
00:49:24.659 --> 00:49:27.420
He doesn't become like David Tennant ranting and screaming.

740
00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:31.739
He keeps his calm, he keeps his cool, but he's just like, no, I'm done with this.

741
00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:33.539
I'm going to do the only thing I can do now.

742
00:49:33.599 --> 00:49:35.519
I've you know, I've tried peace between you.

743
00:49:35.579 --> 00:49:38.219
I've tried persuading you against violence.

744
00:49:38.280 --> 00:49:39.059
None of you are listening.

745
00:49:39.119 --> 00:49:40.559
I'm just gonna save my friend now.

746
00:49:40.619 --> 00:49:52.260
And I think that is so powerful and that is so central to Pete's character, especially seeing as, you know, we've discussed the fact that his doctor is so emotionally reserved.

747
00:49:52.380 --> 00:49:58.440
He's not giving up on his principles, but he's kind of like, these people are not interested in my principles.

748
00:49:58.500 --> 00:50:00.000
So I will use the word.

749
00:50:00.059 --> 00:50:00.539
Oh, get some more.

750
00:50:01.380 --> 00:50:07.500
I'm going to use the one principle I have left, which is I'm not going to let another one of my friends die.

751
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:15.119
It's an amazing final episode, actually, because I think he only exchanges a handful of lines with Sharon's Jack and that's it.

752
00:50:15.179 --> 00:50:17.400
The rest of the time he's running and getting shot at.

753
00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:18.840
Stay warm.

754
00:50:19.559 --> 00:50:21.960
And then we get all the floating heads.

755
00:50:22.260 --> 00:50:24.059
Yes, yes.

756
00:50:24.119 --> 00:50:27.179
So Janet and Mark are still under contract.

757
00:50:27.239 --> 00:50:29.159
It is a bit Futurama, isn't it?

758
00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:34.139
I believe they recorded Gerald Flood's line as comedian.

759
00:50:34.260 --> 00:50:36.119
Tell speaks the truth, doctor.

760
00:50:36.179 --> 00:50:40.380
I believe they recorded that at the end of Planet of Fire, so that was pre-recorded.

761
00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:47.159
But they had to issue new contracts for Anton Anley, Matthew Waterhouse, and Sarah Sutton.

762
00:50:47.219 --> 00:50:56.340
And there was some concern, I believe, that I think Matthew Woodhouse was overseas during the initial filming. in London.

763
00:50:56.340 --> 00:51:00.900
That's that is an a notorious production of Hamlet.

764
00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:01.739
Yeah, about that one?

765
00:51:01.860 --> 00:51:03.360
He did it in Connecticut as well.

766
00:51:03.420 --> 00:51:03.659
Yeah.

767
00:51:03.719 --> 00:51:04.320
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

768
00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:07.380
Was it dinner theatre or...

769
00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:09.059
Should we put some of the reviews up?

770
00:51:10.139 --> 00:51:19.559
But when they moved the filming dates, he was suddenly available, but there was discussion of not having him in there and...

771
00:51:19.619 --> 00:51:24.000
Well, the rationale was they could get away with it because the character was dead.

772
00:51:24.059 --> 00:51:27.480
But I think it's so much more effective having him come up last.

773
00:51:27.539 --> 00:51:29.760
It's Pete's last word too, isn't it?

774
00:51:29.820 --> 00:51:30.239
Yeah, yeah.

775
00:51:30.300 --> 00:51:41.639
And as rationalised by Eric Saywood in the twin dilemma thing, that pushed the doctor on because he never really liked Patrick and he felt guilty.

776
00:51:41.699 --> 00:51:43.260
Thank you, Eric.

777
00:51:43.320 --> 00:51:45.659
We'll talk more about that normalisation in a couple of weeks.

778
00:51:45.719 --> 00:51:47.579
It really is a cynical piece of work.

779
00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:53.639
Well, you know that Saywood was espousing at conventions that he wrote a great deal of this script.

780
00:51:53.699 --> 00:51:55.619
Yeah, well, yeah.

781
00:51:55.619 --> 00:51:56.820
I mean, he will come.

782
00:51:56.820 --> 00:51:58.320
He wrote the whole salary piece.

783
00:51:58.380 --> 00:52:03.300
He will go on to write this script again at the end of the next season.

784
00:52:04.199 --> 00:52:06.000
Not quite so well.

785
00:52:06.059 --> 00:52:07.679
Also directed by Graham H?

786
00:52:07.739 --> 00:52:08.460
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

787
00:52:08.519 --> 00:52:10.260
And so the generation happens.

788
00:52:10.320 --> 00:52:12.719
I think the regeneration's pretty amazing.

789
00:52:12.780 --> 00:52:16.500
There is that there's that thing where the light pulls in life, yeah.

790
00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:18.539
He's definitely lying down as Pete.

791
00:52:18.599 --> 00:52:28.079
He suddenly sits up in his column and instead of the rollback and mix thing that we used to get, and he's just, boom, suddenly he sits up in his column. with his flies open.

792
00:52:28.139 --> 00:52:29.219
You know that story?

793
00:52:29.460 --> 00:52:33.360
That was Pete's spare costume, but Colin couldn't get the flies up.

794
00:52:33.480 --> 00:52:40.019
So because he's big boy, even back then, and he famously mooned Sandra Dickinson on St.

795
00:52:40.019 --> 00:52:51.960
Peter's then wife, and got a rousing murmured cheer from the rest of the production staff who had apparently been completely ostracised by Sandra over the last 3 seasons, which was not the easiest of guests.

796
00:52:52.019 --> 00:52:55.139
No, you can go to Pete's autobiography for more of that.

797
00:52:55.199 --> 00:52:55.860
Yeah.

798
00:52:55.860 --> 00:53:01.199
The funny thing is that costume, which, as Colin, quite frankly, says, was...

799
00:53:01.260 --> 00:53:05.039
Well, also split up the back, there was a V cut out of the back of the pants.

800
00:53:05.099 --> 00:53:07.980
Peter then had to wear that costume to do time crash.

801
00:53:09.179 --> 00:53:12.239
Well, you know, it was still around.

802
00:53:12.300 --> 00:53:13.079
It was still around.

803
00:53:13.139 --> 00:53:15.360
Ian Levine hadn't been doing it as a party.

804
00:53:15.420 --> 00:53:17.039
Was that the Doctor Who experience?

805
00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:25.440
Graham Harper has said about the regeneration effect that he got it to about 90% of where he wanted it to be.

806
00:53:25.500 --> 00:53:28.139
And he says that on the commentary and Peter and Nicola are just saying, what?

807
00:53:28.199 --> 00:53:29.159
But it looks great.

808
00:53:29.219 --> 00:53:30.960
He's like, no, no, no, no, no.

809
00:53:31.019 --> 00:53:33.300
You know, you never have enough time to do exactly what you want.

810
00:53:33.360 --> 00:53:36.840
But I got it about 90% there, which says a lot about the man.

811
00:53:36.900 --> 00:53:39.420
But yeah, of course, a day in the life.

812
00:53:39.480 --> 00:53:52.800
The note at the end of the Beatles day in life was the influence for that sort of chord that plays as we're going into the howl round kind of effect. 1st time we've seen how around since 1973.

813
00:53:53.039 --> 00:53:57.960
And then, yeah, you get that explosion and Colin sits up and yeah.

814
00:53:58.019 --> 00:54:01.320
And he gets to say some lines by Bob Holmes, which is kind of nice.

815
00:54:01.380 --> 00:54:02.639
He'll do that again.

816
00:54:02.699 --> 00:54:04.019
Is it Bob or is it?

817
00:54:04.199 --> 00:54:09.599
We wish it was neat. in about, you know, forced through time.

818
00:54:10.980 --> 00:54:13.860
I, I, I really like that bit.

819
00:54:13.920 --> 00:54:15.659
That's 3 eyes in one breath.

820
00:54:16.860 --> 00:54:19.619
Well, I do, I was quoting.

821
00:54:19.679 --> 00:54:32.460
I really like that bit where, for the 1st time after a regeneration, a doctor is actually really self-assured, it's not, it's not like he just kind of sits up and looks around dazed like Davidson did.

822
00:54:32.519 --> 00:54:40.980
It's not like he's unconscious like John or Tom were, and it's not like he can't focus on his surroundings like Pat was.

823
00:54:41.039 --> 00:54:43.260
He just sits up and straight away.

824
00:54:43.320 --> 00:54:44.400
He like, yes, it's me.

825
00:54:44.460 --> 00:54:44.820
Hello.

826
00:54:44.880 --> 00:54:51.119
It's just very quiet and very self-assured, and I wish they'd continued that quietness, self-assured.

827
00:54:51.179 --> 00:54:52.860
I'm glad he lost the eyeliner, though.

828
00:54:52.920 --> 00:54:54.900
There was a hell of a lot of eyeliner in that shot.

829
00:54:55.019 --> 00:54:57.239
Oh, there's still a hell of a lot of eyeliner in 2 weeks.

830
00:54:57.300 --> 00:54:58.139
Oh, is there, guys?

831
00:54:58.199 --> 00:55:02.219
It's very much the Shatner approach to main character acting, isn't it?

832
00:55:02.280 --> 00:55:03.659
I like the more of that.

833
00:55:03.719 --> 00:55:07.679
I like the confidence in that in that moment, in that performance, but I'll talk more about that.

834
00:55:07.739 --> 00:55:09.900
He does Fluffy's line though, doesn't he?

835
00:55:09.960 --> 00:55:10.500
That final line?

836
00:55:10.559 --> 00:55:11.219
Does he?

837
00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:18.000
Well, he's supposed to say, and it seems not a moment too soon, but he appears to say, and it seems on a moment too soon.

838
00:55:18.059 --> 00:55:20.099
Oh, I always heard it as not.

839
00:55:20.159 --> 00:55:20.940
It's always not.

840
00:55:21.000 --> 00:55:22.619
Yeah, have another listen.

841
00:55:22.679 --> 00:55:24.539
No, it's definitely not.

842
00:55:24.599 --> 00:55:34.380
No, I've heard him say things about his dissatisfaction with his delivery of that line before he's so farewell to Pete.

843
00:55:34.380 --> 00:55:36.480
Todd, do you had Peter the convention?

844
00:55:36.539 --> 00:55:37.860
I know you had Nicola at a convention.

845
00:55:37.920 --> 00:55:38.639
No, never.

846
00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:41.099
You definitely had Nicola, so to speak.

847
00:55:41.159 --> 00:55:48.960
And did she talk to you about this 1st story and her expectations for the role that perhaps didn't quite come to fruition?

848
00:55:49.019 --> 00:55:50.340
You know how she she said to you?

849
00:55:50.400 --> 00:55:53.639
She said to us all that she'd written a backstory for the character.

850
00:55:53.760 --> 00:55:55.679
Of Perry.

851
00:55:55.739 --> 00:56:11.760
She'd sat down like a proper little actress starting out in a career and that Howard and, and the doctor, you know, she saw his very much, or her original father, she saw his very similar and but, but Howard was, of course, more like the master and was cast as a, written as a much older character.

852
00:56:11.820 --> 00:56:25.320
But, now, Perry had a full, Nicola had written a full back story for her character, which never got to happen because it was, it was going to, she was, she'd talked to Pete about how they would both express this as a role and Peter went, actually, I'm going.

853
00:56:25.380 --> 00:56:25.980
Put them off.

854
00:56:26.039 --> 00:56:43.860
The only thing that bobs into my mind is that, you know, she's talked about, the fact that Pete spent the entire production whining her up over the fact that this Colin Baker person was coming in and just winding her up as to how bad it was all going to be.

855
00:56:44.039 --> 00:56:57.840
And that's why they, it takes them the next story to really work out not only onscreen, but behind the scenes to get into a proper working relationship because of this sort of this thing that's been built up into her mind.

856
00:56:57.900 --> 00:56:59.039
Very naughty.

857
00:56:59.159 --> 00:57:03.719
Todd, before we go, because I think this is going to be important in 2 weeks time with the twin dilemma as well.

858
00:57:03.780 --> 00:57:06.179
What did the audience think of this story?

859
00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:10.079
It's no better or no worse than the rest of the season?

860
00:57:10.139 --> 00:57:13.260
It picks up a cool 1000000 for the last 2 episodes?

861
00:57:13.320 --> 00:57:13.920
It does.

862
00:57:13.980 --> 00:57:14.280
It does.

863
00:57:14.340 --> 00:57:15.659
6.9, 6.6?

864
00:57:15.719 --> 00:57:18.659
And then the last 2 episodes in that week is 7.8.

865
00:57:18.840 --> 00:57:21.000
So it does jump because it's the end of the doctor.

866
00:57:21.059 --> 00:57:24.840
Yeah, and it places those 2 episodes play 62nd. you know?

867
00:57:24.900 --> 00:57:26.880
The previous week was 66, 75.

868
00:57:27.059 --> 00:57:29.579
So, you know, it's one of the higher rated ones of the year.

869
00:57:29.639 --> 00:57:35.159
So Peter over the last 3 years has really sort of hovered around the seven, 8000000 mark.

870
00:57:35.219 --> 00:57:36.840
You know, he hasn't lost that many.

871
00:57:36.900 --> 00:57:45.119
Well, I mean, I think looking at it probably 6.5 to about 7.5 is where most of his stock sits after that 1st season.

872
00:57:45.179 --> 00:57:48.360
Do we think that the Monday Tuesday thing was a mistake?

873
00:57:48.719 --> 00:57:54.179
Well, I mean, it's been juggled around like 2 nights a week for the last 3 years.

874
00:57:54.300 --> 00:57:55.679
It was, you know?

875
00:57:55.739 --> 00:57:57.480
and so they're going to change that for next year.

876
00:57:57.539 --> 00:58:03.119
Um, because they felt that it needed to be on at a set time rather than, you know.

877
00:58:03.179 --> 00:58:22.380
So decisions have been made behind the scenes, but I might talk about that more next week and next season because there's going to be, you know, they've made a lot of decisions over the last few years that have worked out for the positive of the show, just by happy accidents, things have happened, but now decisions are going to be made and it's going to have, it's going to go the opposite way.

878
00:58:40.920 --> 00:58:50.340
Dear listeners, we bid a fond farewell now, too, Peter Davison, but do come back next week for our retrospective looking at his entire era.

879
00:58:50.400 --> 00:58:57.719
Over on Bondfinger, we will be shortly releasing view to a kill, finishing off the Roger Moore era as we finish off Peter Davidson.

880
00:58:57.780 --> 00:59:02.340
You can find that at bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and Bondfinger cast on Twitter.

881
00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:04.800
We cover him in sticky stuff when he gets a rash.

882
00:59:05.519 --> 00:59:13.380
Don't forget to check out flights through entirety.sexy, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and at FTE podcast on Twitter.

883
00:59:13.440 --> 00:59:20.340
And Nathan has recently regenerated the Randomiser.net where you can now find an array of options.

884
00:59:20.400 --> 00:59:32.820
You can get it to randomly pick you a story based on doctor, story length, missing episodes, not missing episodes, and if we've recorded a flat through entirety podcast, You can even find it through going through there.

885
00:59:32.820 --> 00:59:39.119
Until our Peter Davidson retrospective next week, may none of your trampolines be Spectrox nests.

886
00:59:39.179 --> 00:59:40.380
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

887
00:59:40.440 --> 00:59:41.159
Good night.

888
00:59:41.219 --> 00:59:41.880
See you soon.

889
00:59:49.199 --> 00:59:51.239
It doesn't stop, does he?

890
00:59:51.480 --> 00:59:54.360
I think there's something in that for all of us.

891
01:00:00.420 --> 01:00:07.679
That was Flight Through Entirety with Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, Richardstone, and his Kenneth Williams doll. theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

892
01:00:07.739 --> 01:00:13.920
This episode, men manning and being men at each other, was recorded on December the 28th, 2016.

893
01:00:14.099 --> 01:00:16.800
Next episode will be released on January 15th.

894
01:00:16.860 --> 01:00:21.539
If you'd like to jump in the mud bath with the rest of us, you can at least buy some spectrums first.

895
01:00:25.980 --> 01:00:28.260
Hairy books are sexy.

896
01:00:28.380 --> 01:00:31.980
Yeah, well, the thing is, I've had to stop waxing.

897
01:00:32.039 --> 01:00:37.679
The last time I last time I waxed it, I've had about 50 ingrown hands and I just look like I've got measles now.

898
01:00:37.739 --> 01:00:39.539
No, don't work, sir.

899
01:00:39.659 --> 01:00:44.820
As long as you don't engage the zipper while you're doing it, we assume that you actually have a zipper.

900
01:00:44.880 --> 01:00:45.840
Are we actually recording at the moment?

901
01:00:45.900 --> 01:00:46.619
Yes.

902
01:00:47.760 --> 01:00:50.340
This is where we get our tag scene.