WEBVTT

NOTE
This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 16:52:28

1
00:00:31.019 --> 00:00:38.880
Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast who will make your bones rot for enjoying us.

2
00:00:38.939 --> 00:00:39.719
I'm Brendan.

3
00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:40.380
I'm Nathan.

4
00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:41.460
I'm Todd.

5
00:00:41.520 --> 00:00:44.159
I found zanium on the floor so it's looking serious.

6
00:00:45.659 --> 00:00:48.420
Are you thinking about you are us?

7
00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:49.500
the twin dilemma.

8
00:00:59.579 --> 00:01:02.579
I'm finding both to be a dilemma right now.

9
00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:03.479
Oh, my.

10
00:01:03.539 --> 00:01:04.200
Now, look.

11
00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:05.280
We, we, we, we.

12
00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:18.959
I would like to open this by saying that recently this year some people on Reddit discovered that Romulus and Remus' equations in the 1st episode are written in a special kind of computer code.

13
00:01:19.019 --> 00:01:26.040
Most of it's gibberish, but there are 2 lines which read, mon-nom, bog off, you twit arse face.

14
00:01:26.099 --> 00:01:29.819
Doctor Who rules okay, so does Dave's program.

15
00:01:29.939 --> 00:01:33.840
So that's apparently been done by a BBC graphics employee Dave Chapman.

16
00:01:33.900 --> 00:01:36.060
And it took them.

17
00:01:36.060 --> 00:01:39.599
It took people 32 years to discover it.

18
00:01:39.659 --> 00:01:43.140
Discover that because that's how much attention this program has been paid.

19
00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:44.159
Yes.

20
00:01:44.219 --> 00:01:46.379
So it's the twin dilemma.

21
00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:49.620
It is the debut proper of Colin Baker.

22
00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:51.900
Let's start with some background information into this episode.

23
00:01:51.959 --> 00:02:01.799
It is written by 1st and only time Doctor Who author Anthony Stephen, whom John Nathan Turner knew from his time on All Creatures great and small.

24
00:02:01.920 --> 00:02:05.519
Yes, who've done a lot of interesting things for the beep, beep, seep.

25
00:02:06.299 --> 00:02:06.480
Yes.

26
00:02:06.540 --> 00:02:16.560
Now, he had all sorts of problems with the script, and some fan legends have emerged, including, apparently one of his excuses for late delivery was that his typewriter exploded.

27
00:02:17.099 --> 00:02:18.599
I wish.

28
00:02:18.659 --> 00:02:21.780
I don't know how much truth there is in that.

29
00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:24.900
But he was very ill during the scripting period.

30
00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:27.360
After right, beginning right.

31
00:02:27.419 --> 00:02:28.139
Yes, right.

32
00:02:28.199 --> 00:02:37.979
And there was going to be a lot more playing with notions of time travel, which I think presented him with a lot of scripting problems, which is why there's not much at all in the finished program.

33
00:02:38.039 --> 00:02:40.620
What there is, is confusing and self-contradictory.

34
00:02:40.680 --> 00:02:42.300
There's a lot more timey whimey stuff.

35
00:02:42.360 --> 00:02:43.199
Yeah, exactly.

36
00:02:43.259 --> 00:02:47.039
Originally, the story was called a stitch in time or a stitch with time.

37
00:02:47.099 --> 00:02:48.240
Stitch in time.

38
00:02:48.300 --> 00:02:48.719
Yeah.

39
00:02:48.780 --> 00:03:02.520
JMT's concept in getting an inexperienced writer with the program was to get someone coming in with no preconceived notions of what the program was going to be about, but he still wanted to choose somebody he'd worked with before that he knew to be reliable.

40
00:03:02.699 --> 00:03:16.139
And he also set down the edict that there should be a central monster, the doctor faces, and that twins should somehow be involved. but didn't specify the gender of the twins.

41
00:03:16.199 --> 00:03:18.599
So in the script, the twins are not gendered.

42
00:03:18.659 --> 00:03:23.879
Well, actually, did you know what Steven said in his original vision for the script?

43
00:03:23.939 --> 00:03:30.120
He was a big fan of Stanley Kubrick, as is this podcast. who was in turn a fan of German expressionism.

44
00:03:30.419 --> 00:03:38.699
In The Shining, have we all seen The Shining, the 1972 film with It's extraordinary and it's Kubrick, so it's horribly disturbing.

45
00:03:38.759 --> 00:03:40.500
Even doing things, it's set in a hotel.

46
00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:43.080
There's that whole timey, whimey thing of going on.

47
00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:44.699
Jack Nicholson, Shelley Duval.

48
00:03:44.759 --> 00:03:46.680
I've seen the Simpsons episode.

49
00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:47.639
It's the same thing.

50
00:03:47.699 --> 00:03:51.060
Shelley Duval didn't know the axe was going to come. next to him.

51
00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:51.780
No, yes.

52
00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:59.340
She was tortured in the same way that Freak and was torturing the crew on the exorcist, and it's very much that same period of high concept horror.

53
00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:03.900
And Jack was totally coked out the whole, there are a lot of similarities.

54
00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:27.720
But the point is that the twins were meant to be little midwitch cuckoo girls, just like the twin girls in the shining, who stand in the corridors, say almost nothing, and be identical, and very disturbing, and playing with the things of, so there was meant to be a point of around which time stops working linearly around the twins, and their functions and their mathematical functions were actually twisting events around them.

55
00:04:27.779 --> 00:04:39.240
Imagine trying to write that, but imagine how interesting and chalky like Windham like that would have been if the closer you got to the twins, the more you felt incredibly ill.

56
00:04:39.300 --> 00:04:43.139
So maybe some things were achieved in the script.

57
00:04:43.259 --> 00:04:45.480
Yeah, Peter Moffatt actually wanted to cast.

58
00:04:45.540 --> 00:04:49.259
He actually found a boy and a girl to play the twins who thought could act.

59
00:04:49.319 --> 00:04:51.360
John Nathan Turner said no.

60
00:04:51.420 --> 00:04:52.980
They must be boys.

61
00:04:53.040 --> 00:05:00.000
Have you read the rewriting that they must be, they had to be preternaturally beautiful and disturbingly seductive.

62
00:05:00.060 --> 00:05:02.459
Well, that's a note.

63
00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:11.579
Well, that was in Anthony Stevens original script that they are darkly attractive almost sexually so, but he also specifies in their description.

64
00:05:11.639 --> 00:05:14.699
Gary Downey should not be involved in the casting. all went horribly wrong.

65
00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:19.379
As you say, Todd, he also specified in the description that they don't have to be identical.

66
00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:22.139
They don't and they don't have to be the same gender.

67
00:05:22.259 --> 00:05:22.920
Yeah.

68
00:05:22.920 --> 00:05:27.060
I'd heard that John Nathan Turner actually vetoes female twins, that he...

69
00:05:27.060 --> 00:05:29.220
Yeah, he sent the head...

70
00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:30.600
Yeah, yeah, amen.

71
00:05:30.660 --> 00:05:37.259
And chose... and chose the Conrads instead, um, Paul and Gavin Conrad.

72
00:05:37.319 --> 00:05:38.699
Gavin and Andrew.

73
00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:43.139
Andrew had to change his name to Paul because there was already an Andrew Conrad on equity something like that.

74
00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:46.620
With their blank expressionless faces.

75
00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:48.360
Their bowl haircuts.

76
00:05:48.420 --> 00:05:55.500
They're appalling costumes, and friend of the podcast, Peter Griffiths. actually interviewed both of them for DWM.

77
00:05:55.560 --> 00:05:57.060
In a Jacuzzi, yes.

78
00:05:57.120 --> 00:05:59.519
And he could not use the interview.

79
00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:05.939
Because when he got back to transcribe the interview, he realised he could not tell them apart.

80
00:06:07.019 --> 00:06:09.120
So as to who was saying what about the production.

81
00:06:09.180 --> 00:06:10.980
So it's... so yeah.

82
00:06:11.399 --> 00:06:14.759
And they were wearing this jumpsuit, so you think that would have helped?

83
00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:20.220
I don't know why you cast as Romulus and Remus 2 boys who can't actually pronounce the letter R properly.

84
00:06:20.279 --> 00:06:21.300
Or is it L?

85
00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:23.160
Lumulus and lemurs.

86
00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:27.240
They couldn't tell their arses from their elbows.

87
00:06:27.300 --> 00:06:29.279
No, I am Romulus, I am Wemus.

88
00:06:29.339 --> 00:06:31.259
But John Nathan Turner.

89
00:06:31.379 --> 00:06:33.060
First mistake.

90
00:06:33.180 --> 00:06:35.639
Peter Moffatt in charge of this production.

91
00:06:35.699 --> 00:06:39.120
He just wants it to be lovey, lovey, lovey at the end of the season.

92
00:06:39.180 --> 00:06:43.319
Now, they've already made this decision to make the doctor unlikeable.

93
00:06:43.379 --> 00:06:51.480
That is the decision that they've made as a reaction against Peter's doctor in terms of the casting, which in the long term is the wrong decision.

94
00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:58.620
But now we're going to be giving the show over to this director, who we all agree, has retired from directing.

95
00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:01.800
If you're going to do this, you need to ensure that one, you've got a brilliant script.

96
00:07:01.860 --> 00:07:07.439
Two, you've got a director that can direct it sympathetically, none of this is happening.

97
00:07:07.500 --> 00:07:08.220
Yeah.

98
00:07:08.220 --> 00:07:10.319
Okay, so Colin's being brought in as the doctor.

99
00:07:10.379 --> 00:07:12.720
They've asked for a four-year contract with him.

100
00:07:12.779 --> 00:07:13.560
Okay?

101
00:07:13.620 --> 00:07:20.759
decisions have been made based on what they've delivered in season 20 in terms of, because that's all they've got to go on, right?

102
00:07:20.819 --> 00:07:22.860
Peter's performance been too bland.

103
00:07:22.920 --> 00:07:23.579
This is, you know.

104
00:07:23.639 --> 00:07:32.939
And so John Nathan Turner is now making decisions based on reaction against what has gone before, like literally going, well, it's all too bland, so we're going to go colour.

105
00:07:33.000 --> 00:07:35.459
Like, and we're going, and it's all too nice.

106
00:07:35.519 --> 00:07:37.920
So we're going to go, you know, horrible.

107
00:07:37.980 --> 00:07:47.939
Now, of course, Colin has come in with an idea that he wanted the doctor to be less likeable than his predecessor and much more like perhaps Hartnell and that sort of thing, which is not necessarily a bad decision.

108
00:07:48.000 --> 00:07:48.660
Right?

109
00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:50.879
And he wanted to be dressed all in black.

110
00:07:51.660 --> 00:07:54.480
Which I would agree would be a wrong decision.

111
00:07:54.540 --> 00:08:04.860
I mean, if you look at the, again, that 20th anniversary special, from the BBC and what he's wearing near, that blues pinstripe soup and what, and what Nicholas wearing.

112
00:08:04.860 --> 00:08:06.540
That looks great.

113
00:08:06.540 --> 00:08:08.040
And a sensible haircut.

114
00:08:08.100 --> 00:08:09.180
Yeah, looks great.

115
00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:10.019
They both look really great.

116
00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:11.040
Okay.

117
00:08:11.100 --> 00:08:15.600
John Nathan Turner has then decided, well, we're going to now put the doctor in at the end of this season.

118
00:08:15.660 --> 00:08:17.459
Which is a terrible idea.

119
00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:19.319
That's another thing that compounds it.

120
00:08:19.379 --> 00:08:20.819
If you're going to make the doctor unlikeable.

121
00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:28.259
Why leave us at the end of the year with a doctor that we don't like, who has openly said, I'm the doctor, whether you like it or not.

122
00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:30.899
Well, that was to Brian Bliss.

123
00:08:31.379 --> 00:08:34.679
Because he wouldn't shut up that he wanted the part.

124
00:08:35.580 --> 00:08:37.799
It's inexplicable.

125
00:08:37.860 --> 00:08:41.220
It's a huge, a huge, huge, huge giant mistake.

126
00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:47.100
And it comes from the fact that I think that he believes that the show is safe.

127
00:08:47.159 --> 00:08:49.860
Yeah, he believes it's unassailable.

128
00:08:49.980 --> 00:08:51.779
At the end of the twin dilemma.

129
00:08:51.840 --> 00:08:57.960
That's the last time in the 20th century that Doctor Who knows it has another season at the end of the season.

130
00:08:58.320 --> 00:09:03.899
Because the following seasons were not commissioned until after the broadcast of the last episode in each case.

131
00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:15.360
Well, I think what the big problem is, Colin Baker, when he describes his vision of the doctor was that, you know, he had his four-year contract.

132
00:09:15.419 --> 00:09:16.980
So he thought he'd go on for years.

133
00:09:17.039 --> 00:09:20.879
I think it was 3 years and an option, which is how they get rid of him in the end, spoiler alert.

134
00:09:20.940 --> 00:09:25.860
But he had this conception that he would start off unlikeable.

135
00:09:25.860 --> 00:09:46.740
And then as you go through with the character, the character gradually softens and you gradually get to the heart of the character, he was envisioning that his doctor would actually be the most emotional and the most approachable by the time you get to the end of his tenure, which that's an incredibly...

136
00:09:47.639 --> 00:09:49.019
Okay, it's hubristic.

137
00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:52.860
But at the same time, it is ahead of its time in storytelling.

138
00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:56.940
But the problem here is he likens him to Mr. Darcy, right?

139
00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:02.940
Mr. Darcy is a character in one novel, and by the end of that novel, By the end of that one story.

140
00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:05.460
He has his redemptive moment.

141
00:10:05.519 --> 00:10:09.539
We needed a glimmer of that redemption in this story.

142
00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:11.940
Instead, we got Mr. RC.

143
00:10:12.059 --> 00:10:15.059
Increasingly so as the scones kept coming.

144
00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:15.899
Yes, go on.

145
00:10:15.960 --> 00:10:21.360
I don't think that that is unprecedented or before its time.

146
00:10:21.419 --> 00:10:23.100
I think that's the heart and arc.

147
00:10:23.159 --> 00:10:26.580
He starts off as unlikeable and becomes a cuddly grandfather.

148
00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:29.279
And I know that's in a good caveman, doesn't he?

149
00:10:29.340 --> 00:10:31.200
But that was not a conscious decision.

150
00:10:31.259 --> 00:10:31.919
No.

151
00:10:31.980 --> 00:10:33.360
And the same thing with pertwi.

152
00:10:33.419 --> 00:10:35.279
You know, Pertwee starts off unlikeable.

153
00:10:35.340 --> 00:10:39.779
Joe comes along and he ends up your sort of touchy-theely...

154
00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:43.559
Well, he ends up your sort of moralising grandma, I think, as we said before.

155
00:10:43.620 --> 00:10:44.519
Margaret Rotherford.

156
00:10:44.580 --> 00:10:45.360
Yeah, exactly.

157
00:10:45.419 --> 00:10:47.159
You know, we're seeing it with Capaldi.

158
00:10:47.220 --> 00:10:55.559
And Tom Baker, you know, as the doctor is arrogant and dismissive and conceited.

159
00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:56.700
Well, exactly.

160
00:10:56.759 --> 00:10:59.759
So it's not definitely the wrong way to go.

161
00:11:00.179 --> 00:11:05.399
But they also had a great deal of range in their performances, didn't they?

162
00:11:05.460 --> 00:11:08.460
Whereas Colin's not given much time to do all of that.

163
00:11:08.580 --> 00:11:12.779
And he's also asked to do things that no hero should ever do.

164
00:11:12.840 --> 00:11:14.399
Yeah, yeah.

165
00:11:14.460 --> 00:11:17.519
There are some really, really bad moments here.

166
00:11:17.580 --> 00:11:24.059
And the, there are a whole series of things that come together to make Collins performance in this story a problem.

167
00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:28.019
One is that Eric Saywood has such a teeny ear for dialogue.

168
00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:34.200
And so, Pete, I think, is able to get round that by just the sheer strength of his acting performance.

169
00:11:34.259 --> 00:11:36.360
But Colin doesn't.

170
00:11:36.419 --> 00:11:47.279
What Colin, I think, chooses to do is to be theatrical and artificial so that the artificial and unrealistic dialogue works in that context.

171
00:11:47.340 --> 00:11:51.000
And I think that that makes him become alienating.

172
00:11:51.059 --> 00:12:02.340
And as we do see, like it's, the original vision for the character, if that was the original vision, and I'm by no means convinced that it is, was that he softens and becomes more likeable.

173
00:12:02.399 --> 00:12:04.320
And in fact, that is what we see on screen.

174
00:12:04.379 --> 00:12:11.039
He is vastly more likeable by the end of the show than he is here or in Attack of the Cyberman.

175
00:12:11.100 --> 00:12:15.000
And he is actually able to do sweet and silly as well.

176
00:12:15.059 --> 00:12:22.919
But we don't get any of that here because he's so busy wrestling with the horrific dialogue that he's given.

177
00:12:22.980 --> 00:12:31.799
And then I think it's a giant mistake to give Colin so early on these fits where the symptoms are overacting horribly.

178
00:12:31.860 --> 00:12:46.500
So that thing where he's cowering in the wardrobe room, doing maniacal laughter, is perhaps the worst performance from a lead actor in the role to date, in the history of television, in the history of television.

179
00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:48.539
It's really, really terrible.

180
00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:52.080
The only way I think that you could possibly play it.

181
00:12:52.139 --> 00:12:53.580
I don't think that's down to Colin.

182
00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:55.740
I think it is down to the decision.

183
00:12:55.799 --> 00:12:59.580
One, let's make him unlikeable in the 1st story.

184
00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:11.820
To, let's have this regeneration, this traumatic regeneration, which makes the doctor behave, you know, like strangle his companion, be cowardly, want people to die.

185
00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:13.799
All of these awful things.

186
00:13:13.860 --> 00:13:16.320
He's suddenly massively unlikeable.

187
00:13:16.379 --> 00:13:22.620
And that nerd explanation that we have, which is post-regeneration trauma.

188
00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:23.340
Who cares?

189
00:13:23.399 --> 00:13:33.480
What we see on screen is someone, like we had Pete last week, running and running and striving and sacrificing himself to save Perry's life.

190
00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:37.139
And now he's just horrible, a horrible person.

191
00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:39.840
Yeah, how can they think it would work?

192
00:13:39.899 --> 00:13:42.899
And it's not where the character ends up.

193
00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:49.019
It isn't where the character ends up and it's not Colin's fault, but it is a massive giant misstamp.

194
00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:50.700
And just unforgivable.

195
00:13:50.759 --> 00:13:57.000
It's as if no one involved in making this program knows why we're doing Doctor Who are what makes it entertaining.

196
00:13:57.059 --> 00:14:01.259
This is the point at which I think we're now doing Doctor Who just out of habit.

197
00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:08.700
And we've never really thought about what it is about Doctor Who that appeals to the audience, what role it has in the televisual landscape.

198
00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:10.379
We just making it because we've always made it.

199
00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:17.340
That's my 1st of many rants, this kind. hope the next few podcasts.

200
00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:23.279
Everybody is looking at me.

201
00:14:24.179 --> 00:14:28.559
But you don't really disagree about twin dilemma, do you, I think?

202
00:14:28.860 --> 00:14:35.820
Originally, when I was asked to do these podcast listeners, I was going to come in for just a common baker era, and the idea was to defend.

203
00:14:35.940 --> 00:14:36.600
Yeah.

204
00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:39.659
Of course, I turned up a lot sooner than that.

205
00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:44.039
And I will defend some things in this show.

206
00:14:44.100 --> 00:14:47.279
I'm going to defend Colin Baker's performances, the doctor.

207
00:14:47.340 --> 00:14:49.440
I'm just gonna be completely opposite to you.

208
00:14:49.500 --> 00:14:56.159
He has to deal with some of the worst dialogue and situations in the history of the show.

209
00:14:56.220 --> 00:15:04.740
He has to turn on a dime, on a dime, from ranting to overacting to whatever you want to say, but also there is compassion in there.

210
00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:12.600
There is humour. especially in the latter 2 episodes where I actually think the latter 2 episodes are much better than certainly the 1st episode, which is a complete train wreck.

211
00:15:12.659 --> 00:15:19.919
And I actually think it's an extraordinary performance from a leading man and his companion, given this situation.

212
00:15:19.980 --> 00:15:22.860
And the situation really comes down to this.

213
00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:26.580
John Petrie took over the role in 1970.

214
00:15:26.700 --> 00:15:30.059
He's in a bed for an episode or two.

215
00:15:30.179 --> 00:15:34.500
There are 2 other people. 2 new other stars of the show carrying the show during that time.

216
00:15:34.559 --> 00:15:38.700
He's coming in with a new script, and ultimately a new producer, and they're working together.

217
00:15:38.820 --> 00:15:41.580
Cut to 4 years later, 5 years later.

218
00:15:41.639 --> 00:15:51.539
Okay, Tom Baker is coming in with a new script editor, new producer, but in that 1st story, It's a Sarah Jane show for the 1st episode and a half, and he is with a team of people.

219
00:15:51.899 --> 00:15:55.620
Cut to Peter Davidson's beginning.

220
00:15:55.620 --> 00:15:58.500
He's in a box for 2 episodes.

221
00:15:58.860 --> 00:16:03.120
And the 2 female companions are leading the show, right?

222
00:16:03.179 --> 00:16:05.460
Yeah, and they've constructed a show for him to come into.

223
00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:06.120
And a box.

224
00:16:06.179 --> 00:16:11.100
He's coming in with a producer that he knows and the script editor will be new.

225
00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:11.700
Right?

226
00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:13.320
cut to this.

227
00:16:13.500 --> 00:16:16.379
John Nathan Turner has been there for 4 years.

228
00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:17.279
Trust me.

229
00:16:17.340 --> 00:16:18.240
Trust me.

230
00:16:18.299 --> 00:16:19.080
Yeah, right?

231
00:16:19.139 --> 00:16:20.879
Eric Saywood has been there for 2 years.

232
00:16:20.940 --> 00:16:21.720
Trust me.

233
00:16:21.779 --> 00:16:24.899
Colin doesn't know that Eric doesn't like him, right?

234
00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:28.259
And so, okay, yes, trust me.

235
00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:31.620
He's going to lose out on the coat to begin with, right?

236
00:16:31.620 --> 00:16:32.220
In the costume.

237
00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:33.480
He's lost that battle to begin with.

238
00:16:33.539 --> 00:16:34.980
It's now the end of season.

239
00:16:35.039 --> 00:16:37.320
Now let's just examine some of these end of season stuff.

240
00:16:37.379 --> 00:16:37.799
Last year.

241
00:16:37.860 --> 00:16:40.980
I lost entire story because of strikes and budgets.

242
00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:44.639
The previous year, well, is the train wreck that is time flight.

243
00:16:44.700 --> 00:16:51.120
The previous year works because it's the final one of that doctor and I'll give them that. previous year, what happens?

244
00:16:51.179 --> 00:16:55.740
Charter, gone, because of the strikes, because John Nathan Turner is the production unit manager.

245
00:16:55.799 --> 00:17:01.500
Previous year, he's still a production unit manager, and Anthony Reid and him have to try and, well, the Armageddon factor.

246
00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:02.100
Dear God.

247
00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:05.579
And the previous year, John Nathan Turner is the production unit manager.

248
00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:06.359
And what have we got?

249
00:17:06.420 --> 00:17:09.180
We've got invasion of time, which is all such a problem.

250
00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:12.000
So the end of season is not a big success, right?

251
00:17:12.059 --> 00:17:14.400
Often in the pertu year, it's a bit of a mess as well.

252
00:17:14.460 --> 00:17:16.259
But I'm going with John Nathan.

253
00:17:16.259 --> 00:17:17.220
Not as bad.

254
00:17:17.220 --> 00:17:20.220
And it really is never as bad.

255
00:17:20.279 --> 00:17:21.599
So here is a precedent.

256
00:17:21.660 --> 00:17:23.579
Here is a precedent, right?

257
00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:28.859
The last rate of season is always under budget.

258
00:17:28.859 --> 00:17:30.059
Under budget, out of time.

259
00:17:30.059 --> 00:17:31.500
Exhausted crew.

260
00:17:31.559 --> 00:17:32.579
Exhausted.

261
00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:34.619
And then you've got this script edited.

262
00:17:34.680 --> 00:17:38.940
Now, I don't know what I don't know what Eric Sabre was doing, right?

263
00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:41.759
Because, yes, he had to rewrite The Awakening.

264
00:17:41.819 --> 00:17:49.920
Then he's got his own story, which he has revised from the previous year, but Grimwade story, and I assume Bob Holmes's stuff came in pretty good.

265
00:17:50.220 --> 00:17:51.660
What?

266
00:17:51.660 --> 00:17:54.059
And this other script is an absolute shambles.

267
00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:56.819
As you were saying, it's called a stitch in time or whatever it was called.

268
00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:03.000
And I think the only thing that's left from that is that stupid teleportation thing at the end of episode two.

269
00:18:03.059 --> 00:18:03.539
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

270
00:18:03.539 --> 00:18:04.859
Which makes no sense whatsoever.

271
00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:07.200
Absolutely don't blame. right?

272
00:18:07.259 --> 00:18:09.359
And I believe in the original stage directions.

273
00:18:09.420 --> 00:18:12.779
Perry's supposed to be screaming at the screen like that the doctor's dying.

274
00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:18.000
Instead, Nicola has to do this sobbing, which is just so pathetic, but...

275
00:18:18.059 --> 00:18:19.200
Oh, it's just so pathetic.

276
00:18:19.259 --> 00:18:23.160
But the fact is, this script is so undercooked in episode one.

277
00:18:23.220 --> 00:18:26.400
Getting the doctor to attack Perry is just the wrong thing.

278
00:18:26.460 --> 00:18:28.140
I'm extraordinary.

279
00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:30.000
It is just, it's the wrong decision.

280
00:18:30.059 --> 00:18:31.200
And it's say would.

281
00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:32.339
Ive got to think it's say would.

282
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:54.180
It's like, say would inherits Pete and Pete is good. and now say would hated the doctor and has been keeping him out of the show and now he's remaking the doctor in his own cynical image and you've got Nathan Turner casting his 2nd doctor and the only idea he has is B different from the previous doctor, which, let's face it, was his previous idea as well.

283
00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:59.940
And, you know, cast someone reasonably famous from television, which again, he's doing again.

284
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:06.119
You know, I think that Colin is really the victim of some pretty bad circumstances.

285
00:19:06.180 --> 00:19:08.579
And I will agree with you on that.

286
00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:18.180
I mean, my my point was trying to say is that, you know, he's coming into the situation with with a producer and a script editor wants to make it more gritty and that sort of thing, right?

287
00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:21.299
And the producer wants to make it a contrast to the previous doctor.

288
00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:27.539
And so he's wanting to do a good job, but, you know, in terms of, you know, you're getting the script, you've got to make the best of it.

289
00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:31.619
You know, I know I've been in work situations where I've come into new work situations.

290
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:35.460
I've had to implement things in classroom, which I have not believed in, but I've done my best, right?

291
00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:38.039
And then, 3 or 4 months down the track.

292
00:19:38.099 --> 00:19:43.079
Like, I'm questioning what we did, and the people will turn around, who gave me the job and say to me, well, you didn't have to do it like that.

293
00:19:43.140 --> 00:19:45.180
I'm going, are you kidding me?

294
00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:48.359
And then I will argue my case for change and everything like that.

295
00:19:48.420 --> 00:19:49.980
Colin's not given that opportunity.

296
00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:51.420
He's just going to come in at the end of the season.

297
00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:54.539
Everybody's tired, and it's like, you've just got to do this. right?

298
00:19:54.660 --> 00:19:58.500
And even if you had objections to that strangling scene.

299
00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:00.720
You know, it's just like we're just going to get on with and do it.

300
00:20:00.779 --> 00:20:02.279
That 1st episode is so appallingly written.

301
00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:03.720
I just cannot, I cannot.

302
00:20:03.779 --> 00:20:05.099
I cannot get over.

303
00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:08.160
Every single asset on earth.

304
00:20:08.220 --> 00:20:09.660
Can I just have my rant?

305
00:20:09.720 --> 00:20:10.680
I need to do this.

306
00:20:10.740 --> 00:20:11.700
I've got to keep disconnected.

307
00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:14.220
So we've got May my bones rot for a baby.

308
00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:16.740
Her pathetic offsider, Helena, right?

309
00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:17.819
She's really bad.

310
00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:21.180
And you just want to scream at their performance.

311
00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:22.619
The set from acorn antiques.

312
00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:24.119
This is the thing.

313
00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:25.380
In winter smocks.

314
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:27.480
We talk of the arc and the security kitchen.

315
00:20:27.539 --> 00:20:28.500
Here is her security.

316
00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:29.460
God knows what.

317
00:20:29.460 --> 00:20:31.440
It's as cheap as chips, right?

318
00:20:31.500 --> 00:20:36.000
And there's one point where Hugo actually asked a question of that, may my bones rot for obeying it.

319
00:20:36.059 --> 00:20:38.880
She turns to Elena, asks a question, and what seems like 20 seconds later.

320
00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:45.539
She then says, oh, yes, those fighters have been modified, and I'm just there going, oh, my goodness, can I just stab myself right now?

321
00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:48.299
Come back, Jack May, or Liz forgive her.

322
00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:50.220
But then, like the whole decision.

323
00:20:50.279 --> 00:20:51.900
Like there's no world building here.

324
00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:56.099
If these twins are so important, surely they should be with, not locked away in their house.

325
00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:57.119
Oh my goodness.

326
00:20:57.180 --> 00:20:58.859
We're going to pay equations.

327
00:20:58.920 --> 00:20:59.940
Really?

328
00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:01.859
The father then has apoplexy.

329
00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:03.839
Like, it's just the most pathetic performance.

330
00:21:03.900 --> 00:21:05.339
Okay, his is the most pathetic one.

331
00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:06.240
It was cinary too.

332
00:21:06.299 --> 00:21:08.700
Turns out Davros was right, TLM.

333
00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:11.400
The 1st performance in the history of Doctor Who.

334
00:21:11.460 --> 00:21:12.059
I'm sorry.

335
00:21:12.119 --> 00:21:13.980
Like he has a breakdown over equations.

336
00:21:14.039 --> 00:21:15.839
Alex Saywood, I can do that too.

337
00:21:15.900 --> 00:21:17.759
X plus Y equals seven.

338
00:21:17.819 --> 00:21:19.980
If Y equals 2, what is the value of eggs?

339
00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:29.220
I mean, my God, I'm going to have a breakdown over that, you know, the equations come up on the screen, like, as you've mentioned, Brendan, this stupid frigging space invaders thing.

340
00:21:29.339 --> 00:21:36.180
And then, and then, when they get taken away, and I do like Edgeworth, whatever his name is, Harry.

341
00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:37.980
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

342
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:40.559
Then, you know, when they get their little discs put on their hands.

343
00:21:40.619 --> 00:21:49.380
Like, the efforts of their acting is basically to turn 45 degrees because that's all they can do because their faces are as plastic and as emotionless as God knows what.

344
00:21:49.380 --> 00:21:52.500
At this point, you know, I'm just ready to just throttle somebody.

345
00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:56.220
Like, I could write this crap on the back of a napkin, you know?

346
00:21:56.279 --> 00:21:59.519
And then the father comes in and what was the, what's the stuff he finds on the floor?

347
00:22:00.660 --> 00:22:04.140
Oh, well, it must be an extraterrestrial kidnapping.

348
00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:06.720
I mean, my god, how pathetic is this?

349
00:22:06.779 --> 00:22:09.660
And then they end up saying, well, we're not going to go after them.

350
00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:21.480
You know, she's got to report back to the parents and say, well, sorry, your sons have been taken away and they could be, you know, some news for all sorts of horrors on, God knows what, you know, we've had budget cuts this week, so you know, we're not going to do it.

351
00:22:21.539 --> 00:22:23.759
By slugs played by Gary Downey.

352
00:22:23.819 --> 00:22:25.680
This is and this from Garmin.

353
00:22:25.740 --> 00:22:27.779
This from the guy Rod had the hots for?

354
00:22:27.900 --> 00:22:28.500
Yeah, yeah.

355
00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:30.180
Yeah, I'm sorry this time round.

356
00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:34.440
His performance as the father is the worst thing in his...

357
00:22:34.500 --> 00:22:35.460
What else could he have done?

358
00:22:35.460 --> 00:22:36.720
I do not care about the twins.

359
00:22:36.839 --> 00:22:39.059
I do not care about me, I don't rot for obeying it.

360
00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:44.160
He, Dennis Chenery, you and director Peter Moffatt, I'm going to kill you.

361
00:22:44.220 --> 00:22:49.500
And Eric, say with this script, anything on Earth is... absolutely, totally, utterly crap.

362
00:22:49.680 --> 00:22:53.039
Todd is now knee deep in bodies in the console.

363
00:22:53.099 --> 00:22:55.859
I'm sorry, bodies fluid.

364
00:22:56.279 --> 00:23:01.440
That combined with the fact that Colin and Nicola have to do this strangulation sense.

365
00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:06.359
I hope this is as exciting for you, dear listeners, because this is pretty hot.

366
00:23:06.420 --> 00:23:08.579
In this episode, right?

367
00:23:08.700 --> 00:23:09.960
And it comes out of nowhere.

368
00:23:10.019 --> 00:23:19.440
And I will give Colin credit, like, and her credit for when it happens, but the moment that happens, it is shocking and I actually think that whole lead up to it as he turns on a dime and talks to me about the peri thing.

369
00:23:19.500 --> 00:23:20.579
Yeah, that's great.

370
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:21.660
I don't have a problem with that.

371
00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:29.700
Like, really what needed to happen, she needed to run cowering into the corner. and not be attacked and him to realise and go, and actually apologise.

372
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:31.019
That's what this needs.

373
00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:33.420
It needs an apology, Perry, I am so sorry.

374
00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:34.740
No point in this script.

375
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:36.900
Does it actually give that?

376
00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:45.720
In fact, his apology takes the form of, I have to atone on this craggy rock and you're going to be my disciple and minister to it, my every knee. actually find that absolutely hilarious.

377
00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:58.259
I mean, you know, like he can be funny, but in the context where he's attacked her violently, and we've already said that she's a companion that men manhandle, and now the doctor's doing it to her.

378
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:00.900
It's just, it's fractals of wrong.

379
00:24:00.960 --> 00:24:02.460
It's wrong.

380
00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:06.180
It's wrong turtles. descending it wrong all the way down.

381
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:08.759
At the start when he's in the other costume.

382
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:10.500
He looks great in Pete's costume.

383
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:12.119
He looks hot in Pete's.

384
00:24:12.180 --> 00:24:13.440
He looks like a rugby linebacker.

385
00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:15.900
Yeah, there was a confidence in his performance.

386
00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:17.579
There's a confidence.

387
00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:19.019
Okay, when I look at this now.

388
00:24:19.259 --> 00:24:19.799
Okay, right.

389
00:24:19.859 --> 00:24:20.519
That a 6 doctor.

390
00:24:20.640 --> 00:24:24.960
That's a 6 doctor on crack, that's like, like, he's taken ice and God knows what that is.

391
00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:25.799
That's what I see.

392
00:24:25.859 --> 00:24:28.680
I can actually see where the 6 doctor is and where things are.

393
00:24:28.799 --> 00:24:31.859
This is part of the problem with script, is that there's only Perry.

394
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:38.460
There's no other there's no other person to break what's going on in here. 3rd person, like a Turlo to stay on.

395
00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:42.900
And it goes back to what I was saying, like all these other supporting in the previous regenerations.

396
00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:44.099
There's other people to take the lead.

397
00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:46.380
They are forced into the situation where they have.

398
00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:47.759
It's just the 2 of them, right?

399
00:24:47.819 --> 00:24:51.599
There's no, I'm going to lie down for 2 episodes whilst I sort of recover and get my balance.

400
00:24:51.660 --> 00:24:52.619
It's like, boom.

401
00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:54.480
Ultimately, it doesn't work, right?

402
00:24:54.539 --> 00:25:10.980
Do you know, Moffatt pulls it off, but Russell is very careful to do the same thing to surround us with Jackie and Mickey and Harriet Jones and all of those people that we know from the previous year in order to buffer it a bit and to give us a chance for the doctor to emerge properly.

403
00:25:11.460 --> 00:25:18.539
Moffatt is incredibly skilful and super careful in the introduction of Matt Smith where he doesn't have any of that staff.

404
00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:22.019
But I remember agreeing with you at the, at the time.

405
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:30.779
I remember thinking that this is lonely, this regeneration, and it's kind of sad that it only has one witness, and it really doesn't work properly.

406
00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:40.140
It just had been some sort of American cop show, for example, and they the doctor would have been on drugs or whatever and be put into ER or something and like he would have attacked people around him.

407
00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:41.099
Like, do you know what I mean?

408
00:25:41.160 --> 00:25:42.900
Like the attendants trying to help him, right?

409
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:44.579
But here, because it's the companion.

410
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:47.400
It's just, it's a wrong decision.

411
00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:50.039
It's like the costume ultimately is the wrong decision.

412
00:25:50.099 --> 00:25:55.619
Keeping the same opening titles with the few tweaks is the wrong decision.

413
00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:00.839
Having this at the end of the year is the wrong decision, having Eric say would write this is the wrong decision.

414
00:26:00.900 --> 00:26:03.240
They should have said, Bob Holmes, keep on writing.

415
00:26:03.299 --> 00:26:06.359
And having Moffatt directed, Peter Moffatt director is the wrong decision.

416
00:26:06.420 --> 00:26:08.519
Yeah, it is the wrong decision.

417
00:26:08.579 --> 00:26:13.859
And up to this point, we've had lots of wrong decisions, but through serendipity or whatever.

418
00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:14.940
It's worked out here.

419
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:17.819
Everything is just a cataclysm in that 1st episode.

420
00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:23.880
And, you know, I came in here to defend this story, people, you won't believe this, and I will try and defend the rest of it.

421
00:26:23.940 --> 00:26:24.960
But episode one.

422
00:26:25.500 --> 00:26:30.180
I will defend I will defend Colin Baker's performance in this story to the art.

423
00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:36.059
I believe what he has to do compared to his predecessors in the 1st story and he gets in it and he does it.

424
00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:39.059
I'll go to that scene where the outside stuff's quite good.

425
00:26:39.119 --> 00:26:45.119
He goes outside and talking about heroes or whatever, and then they have a little nice little moment before they enter into the hatch into the tunnels, right?

426
00:26:45.180 --> 00:26:50.940
And then they're talking about heroes and then there's this whole sequence where he just turns like cowardly before.

427
00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:58.140
I hated that as a kid, but it's the only sequence of these entire fits that I actually like because I actually see the whole progression.

428
00:26:58.200 --> 00:27:02.279
But the ending again when he walks back through that door, it's just dismissive, right?

429
00:27:02.339 --> 00:27:03.960
It's just like, oh, yes, I'm all okay.

430
00:27:04.019 --> 00:27:07.559
No, what needed to happen was the doctor needed to put his arm around Perry and St.

431
00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:08.460
Perry, I'm so sorry.

432
00:27:08.519 --> 00:27:09.240
Yes, right?

433
00:27:09.299 --> 00:27:11.039
And Colin has said this, right?

434
00:27:11.099 --> 00:27:15.660
But Jane, he did not want to put his arm around the companion and that sort of thing.

435
00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:18.180
But he does eventually do that in the mysterious planet.

436
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:19.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

437
00:27:19.500 --> 00:27:24.059
But I will also say that in episode four, like the 1st episodes...

438
00:27:24.119 --> 00:27:33.599
But once you get onto Jakonda, and yes, there's still some fits and stars and I can cope with them in these, enough in these later episodes, but there's not as much.

439
00:27:33.660 --> 00:27:37.019
But the weakness of Eric Seybert as a writer.

440
00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:41.279
Shines through when the doctor grabs Perry again in episode four, right?

441
00:27:41.339 --> 00:27:44.279
and says, and this is, oh, promise, I won't, I won't hurt you, right?

442
00:27:44.339 --> 00:27:49.980
That's his, that's his way of trying to do the opposite of what happened in episode one, right?

443
00:27:50.039 --> 00:27:50.519
Yeah.

444
00:27:51.299 --> 00:27:52.920
Does it work?

445
00:27:52.980 --> 00:27:53.400
I don't know.

446
00:27:53.460 --> 00:28:08.160
Well, you get the, you get his cliffhanger in episode 3 where he hears that Perry has been caught by Mestor and he calls out Perry's name in reverse resting cliffhanger face. you know, it's Colin's 1st proper cliffhanger face and he does it pretty well.

447
00:28:08.220 --> 00:28:14.940
And I think that is meant to be an arc where he starts off attacking Perry and ends up really concerned for her.

448
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:18.960
You know, there is some attempt to have some character progression.

449
00:28:19.019 --> 00:28:26.519
Can I just mention, though, I think that watching this, it is possible to disentangle the fits from Colin Baker's eventual performance.

450
00:28:26.579 --> 00:28:31.079
And I have said before, I think Colin's capable of great charm.

451
00:28:31.140 --> 00:28:43.440
I'm not sure that we're going to agree on the quality of Collins eventual performance, but I think that there is a massive distance in quality levels of quality between the fits and Collins performance.

452
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:49.680
And I think it is really obvious to us watching it now, what is Collins eventual performance and what's the fits.

453
00:28:49.740 --> 00:28:55.500
The problem is that the audience watching it for the 1st time have no idea what he's going to end up being live.

454
00:28:55.559 --> 00:28:58.380
Yeah, and it's really hard to keep up with the changes.

455
00:28:58.440 --> 00:29:01.380
And the way Colin seems to approach it.

456
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:05.700
All of the emotions he shows, I think, show on his face.

457
00:29:05.759 --> 00:29:09.720
And as soon as he turns, you can see in his face that he's turned.

458
00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:36.420
I'm just speculating here that the kind of the only way for him to get through this performance is to treat every scene like a different production because it's, it must be very hard to get inside the head of someone having these massive mood swings, and Perry brings up terms like manic depression and bipolar, and that was the media's view of these conditions at the time that your moods can swing, you know, 5 times in 20 seconds.

459
00:29:36.839 --> 00:29:42.599
Now, I came to look at Colin's face in this, because of a piece of advice from Richard.

460
00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:46.440
Richard advised me to watch this program in a special way.

461
00:29:46.500 --> 00:29:47.579
I did.

462
00:29:47.640 --> 00:30:01.440
I haven't seen this since 1984, and Dallas, friend of the podcast, Jones came over to a friend's place when we were all at school, and we saw Andrazani and Twin Dilemma back to back before it was broadcast on Australian TV, and Katie Manning was meant to come over for lunch, but she couldn't come.

463
00:30:01.500 --> 00:30:02.819
So it would have been an amazing day.

464
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:05.400
But anyway, we were all about 14 or 15.

465
00:30:05.640 --> 00:30:06.599
Well, she knows Colin.

466
00:30:06.660 --> 00:30:07.259
She knows everyone.

467
00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:10.019
Yeah, she's got the range.

468
00:30:10.140 --> 00:30:14.339
But anyway, so we sat there and Andrew's only blew us away in every direction and at 1415.

469
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:15.539
We really, we got it.

470
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:17.160
We got all the subtleties and all the levels.

471
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:20.819
Sensitive boys of any, you know, it worked perfectly.

472
00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:30.839
Then we saw twin dilemma, and my 1st word, halfway through episode one was yuck, and then Perry, a 2nd later said, yuck. and everybody both start laughing.

473
00:30:30.900 --> 00:30:35.640
This time I watched Twin Dilemma before I watched Caves Avengersani.

474
00:30:35.700 --> 00:30:38.519
I watched it in black and white, and I watched it backwards.

475
00:30:38.700 --> 00:30:42.000
And then and then I watched it frontwards to get Happy Annie.

476
00:30:42.059 --> 00:30:44.099
But no, I agree completely with Todd.

477
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:49.079
I hadn't, I stopped watching Doctor Who at this and went back to it in the 80s when Sylvester came on.

478
00:30:49.140 --> 00:30:55.079
But looking at it now, I can see what a glimmer of what Colin might have been allowed to do.

479
00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:57.480
Yes, he's a very different kind of performer.

480
00:30:57.539 --> 00:30:58.920
He's very theatrical.

481
00:30:58.980 --> 00:31:01.920
He's more of a Henry Gordon Jago type.

482
00:31:01.980 --> 00:31:11.579
But when we stop and consider that the BBC wanted Brian Blessed as well, and Blessed was very happy to be telling everyone the BBC of approach for me to play Doctor Who, I have the part.

483
00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:12.779
He thought he did.

484
00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:16.319
Well, at least, you know, Brian Bless, it's cray cray as a bucket of...

485
00:31:16.319 --> 00:31:18.119
Yeah, and then Cray lived down the sun to go crazy.

486
00:31:18.180 --> 00:31:22.140
And then Colin Hurdy was saying that and called him JNT and said, why have you given away my part?

487
00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:22.920
Exactly.

488
00:31:22.980 --> 00:31:24.839
Because of that because folk higher up?

489
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:27.359
We're saying that to bless it as the fan law goes.

490
00:31:27.420 --> 00:31:30.240
And then maybe he was taking cues from that as well.

491
00:31:30.299 --> 00:31:34.980
I think Colin has been so misaligned, misjudged, and so misappropriated for this.

492
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:37.019
He had no bloody chance.

493
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:37.980
No, no.

494
00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:45.480
I mean, you know, if they had, and of course, this was a show, as we discussed with Kays of Andrazani that was pushed back in the schedule.

495
00:31:45.539 --> 00:31:49.559
The filming work happened between the 2 studio days.

496
00:31:49.619 --> 00:31:51.599
So it was massively disrupted.

497
00:31:51.660 --> 00:31:58.019
Peter Moffatt, being a very old-fashioned director, filmed as much as possible in story order, rather than getting everything done on one set and then moving on.

498
00:31:58.319 --> 00:32:04.140
Well, the only difference was the Tardis scenes, which were all filmed on the final day.

499
00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:17.519
And, you know, that's your important stuff, like the strangulation scene, and like I'm the doctor, whether you like it or not, they lost a beautiful line from the last scene where Perry reproaches the doctor for being so rude to Hugo when they leave, to which the doctor's response is.

500
00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:23.519
Well, Perry, what is the point in saying goodbye to a man I intend to visit because he will be a wise and noble leader.

501
00:32:23.579 --> 00:32:25.740
And that would...

502
00:32:25.740 --> 00:32:26.700
We don't get that.

503
00:32:26.759 --> 00:32:31.740
And that would be that would be a moment that shows his different perspective on the universe.

504
00:32:31.859 --> 00:32:34.259
And it was cut for whatever reason.

505
00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:44.220
Um, you know, this was a, this was an incredibly troubled production that needed, it needed the time and care put into it that went into Lagopolis.

506
00:32:44.940 --> 00:32:47.819
Let's talk about David Tennant again.

507
00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:48.660
Do you know what I mean?

508
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:51.420
It's the 1st time the show has a regeneration.

509
00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:58.380
There's a real danger that the audience are not going to accept the new doctor because they've never seen a regeneration before.

510
00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:08.400
And yeah, and Russell really goes out of his way to ensure that the transition is smooth and that we given the chance to recognise Tenet as the doctor.

511
00:33:08.460 --> 00:33:17.039
And so, you know, very early on we get him, he gets a hero moment. without fully recovering and without stealing the thunder of the final hero moment.

512
00:33:17.099 --> 00:33:19.740
And then we have to wait a long time for him even to come into it.

513
00:33:19.799 --> 00:33:22.140
And when he comes in, he solves the problem.

514
00:33:22.200 --> 00:33:25.500
Colin is given nothing comparable to do.

515
00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:32.460
He's given lots of kind of manic behaviour and cowardice and thoughtlessness and lack of compassion.

516
00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:34.559
What's his big hero moment?

517
00:33:34.619 --> 00:33:40.019
He's going to stride into the villain's lair and throw a vial of acid at him.

518
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:41.880
You know, I mean, it's so ill judged.

519
00:33:41.940 --> 00:33:51.480
And it's, it is say would, say would cynicism, his inability to regard the doctor as a hero.

520
00:33:51.539 --> 00:34:06.779
We saw it in Resurrection of the Daleks, where, you know, Pete refuses to shoot Davros in the face, uh, and that's regarded as some kind of weakness, uh, by Seyward, that's regarded as some kind of weakness in his character.

521
00:34:06.900 --> 00:34:11.159
And so, say it's completely the wrong person to be doing this.

522
00:34:11.219 --> 00:34:13.980
And anything.

523
00:34:14.039 --> 00:34:16.380
Well, no one knows why we're making the show anymore.

524
00:34:16.440 --> 00:34:19.139
And the code tells that story as well.

525
00:34:19.199 --> 00:34:25.440
Yeah, I think the code is actually beautifully designed and I think it's very much of its time if you look at...

526
00:34:25.500 --> 00:34:26.219
It is very 80s.

527
00:34:26.280 --> 00:34:28.260
If you look at Cindy Lauper or Spender Ballet.

528
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:30.539
I actually think it's perfectly 80s and I agree with you.

529
00:34:30.599 --> 00:34:33.179
It's beautifully constructed. actually have come to admire the code.

530
00:34:33.239 --> 00:34:35.099
And I can see...

531
00:34:35.099 --> 00:34:36.239
It's Andrew Lloyd Webber.

532
00:34:36.300 --> 00:34:37.139
It's Joseph's coat.

533
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:39.360
I can see where it works in the following season.

534
00:34:39.420 --> 00:34:42.900
And I think it could have worked in the season that never was, but it does not work.

535
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:45.360
It does not work in Trial Time Lord.

536
00:34:45.420 --> 00:34:48.119
I'm not getting ahead of myself, but it fails to work whenever it's on Earth.

537
00:34:48.179 --> 00:34:49.619
Yeah, that's the problem.

538
00:34:49.679 --> 00:34:56.579
So the doctor can't ever appear in public on earth, you know, from now on and he doesn't.

539
00:34:56.699 --> 00:35:03.960
So he can't do something like Pete does in time flight, for instance, and turn up at Heathrow Airport because he dresses a clown.

540
00:35:04.019 --> 00:35:04.920
Yeah.

541
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:08.940
It also has this effect on the design of the program as a whole.

542
00:35:09.059 --> 00:35:22.860
Because the costume is so saturated and colourful in order to not be drowned out completely buy it, every set from here on in has to be colourful and giant as well.

543
00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:25.440
Or has to be incredibly drab.

544
00:35:25.500 --> 00:35:28.079
Well, or just be washed out.

545
00:35:28.139 --> 00:35:29.039
But when does that happen?

546
00:35:29.099 --> 00:35:32.099
Everything else is, there's bright colours in every set.

547
00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:37.739
You know, Perry has to suddenly wear this silly outfit as well, which to match what he's wearing.

548
00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:39.719
Otherwise, you're just going to...

549
00:35:39.719 --> 00:35:42.119
Yeah, Hugo, like...

550
00:35:42.179 --> 00:35:43.019
Yeah, awful.

551
00:35:43.079 --> 00:35:47.579
Well, Perry's costume in this was originally a trouser suit, wasn't it?

552
00:35:47.639 --> 00:35:49.019
Kind of a trouser. yeah.

553
00:35:49.559 --> 00:36:07.380
The way Nicola describes it was I had a polo style shirt with a polo collar, I had trousers on, Pat Godfrey and I had discussed it, I said, well, look, I'm an American student, as you mentioned previously, Richard, her partner at the time was American, so she had an insight into the fashions that were popular in America.

554
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:09.059
So they had that discussion.

555
00:36:09.119 --> 00:36:10.920
Nicola came on in her costume.

556
00:36:10.980 --> 00:36:17.579
And during the producer's run, John Nathan Turner comes over the PA and says, could Nicola please get into costume?

557
00:36:17.639 --> 00:36:21.179
The costume we see on screen is the remnants of that costume.

558
00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:37.380
Pat Godfrey apparently ran in with a sewing machine and scissors and cut it up on the studio floor, which is why it has that weird ribbon around the collar and why it's got the sash around the middle to try and join it, and Nicola actually heard John say, we cannot have the doctor showing more flesh than the companion.

559
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:46.199
The way Nicola chose to play it and why she comes into the console and says, ta-da, is she's trying to say, I look horrible.

560
00:36:46.260 --> 00:36:48.119
Can't you see how horrible you look?

561
00:36:48.780 --> 00:36:55.980
My big problem with the coat has always been the yellow lapel and the green panel on the back.

562
00:36:56.039 --> 00:36:57.599
I find them incredibly distracting.

563
00:36:57.659 --> 00:37:06.239
If they were hues of red instead, the predominant thing of the coat would be red with flashes of yellow, it would be eccentric, but it would be tasteful.

564
00:37:06.300 --> 00:37:09.539
And that's why, Richard, I eventually took your advice when I was watching this.

565
00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:23.280
I watched the 1st 2 episodes in colour with commentary and the commentary is Hugo Nicola and Kevin McNally, and I kind of switched the commentary off a little bit after the strangulation scene because they all go, oh, isn't this wonderful and daring and brave?

566
00:37:23.340 --> 00:37:29.340
And I'm just thinking, no, this is, this, I'm just like, this is horrible, but they wouldn't have known this.

567
00:37:29.400 --> 00:37:36.360
It's horrible because the last 3 years the TARDIS has become a domestic environment and this is now domestic violence.

568
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:40.380
This is a father figure as Nicola viewed the doctor.

569
00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:42.780
This is a father figure.

570
00:37:42.780 --> 00:37:44.820
Beating their child.

571
00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:46.139
It really is.

572
00:37:46.199 --> 00:37:47.880
And it is wrong.

573
00:37:47.940 --> 00:37:49.619
It is completely wrong.

574
00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:52.559
So, at beginning of episode three.

575
00:37:52.619 --> 00:37:54.119
I turn the colour all the way down.

576
00:37:54.179 --> 00:37:55.440
I turn the contrast all the way up.

577
00:37:55.500 --> 00:37:57.840
Suddenly, it's Flash Gordon.

578
00:37:57.900 --> 00:37:58.980
It's Dan Dare.

579
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:01.500
It's a 1940 serial and it looks amazing.

580
00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:03.840
It works as a 50s show, yeah.

581
00:38:03.840 --> 00:38:05.219
Once they get it to Jakonda.

582
00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:11.400
I actually like all the performances of the Jakondans, and I think the actual, the makeup is extraordinary.

583
00:38:11.460 --> 00:38:12.420
And I like that.

584
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:18.420
I like the good guy and the bad one and then the Chamberlain, who is from Seeds of Doom.

585
00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:20.039
Seymour Green.

586
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:21.840
That's Emma Green Harrison.

587
00:38:21.900 --> 00:38:23.519
That's Harrison Chase's butler.

588
00:38:23.579 --> 00:38:25.320
He's too violent.

589
00:38:25.380 --> 00:38:29.400
And, you know, I've, I've, is it Maurice, what's his name?

590
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:34.320
Look, you know that other old fool back in Arc of Infinity who had lost it?

591
00:38:34.380 --> 00:38:35.519
Leonard Sachs, right?

592
00:38:35.579 --> 00:38:38.159
Here, he's almost losing it, but he's good enough.

593
00:38:38.219 --> 00:38:40.920
I really like, I really think it's a very sympathetic performance.

594
00:38:41.039 --> 00:38:42.300
Denim is a brilliant actor.

595
00:38:42.360 --> 00:38:45.960
And, you know, when the doctor holds him in his arms where he dies at the end.

596
00:38:46.019 --> 00:38:47.219
I mean I really love that stuff.

597
00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:51.659
I actually really like episode four, and I know you don't like whether I'm the doctor or I like it or not.

598
00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:53.219
There, a danger thing there, which I really like.

599
00:38:53.280 --> 00:38:55.739
I really, really think I really do like episode four.

600
00:38:55.860 --> 00:39:00.300
And at the end, I think people forget that she's smiling at him, he's smiling at her.

601
00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:01.380
They keep smiling at each other.

602
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:06.960
So for me, it's sort of like, well, okay, things haven't been great, but yeah, we can, we can touch.

603
00:39:07.019 --> 00:39:08.880
That's how I feel.

604
00:39:08.940 --> 00:39:13.800
I know that you've got a face of grimace and you're going to disagree with me on this. possibly.

605
00:39:13.980 --> 00:39:15.719
No, no, it's Stockholm syndrome.

606
00:39:15.780 --> 00:39:16.260
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

607
00:39:16.380 --> 00:39:16.739
Yeah, yeah.

608
00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:18.119
We haven't earned the smile.

609
00:39:18.239 --> 00:39:19.019
No, that's the thing.

610
00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:25.679
No, you don't get to abuse a woman and then she keeps staying with you without any recompense without any statement. is appalling.

611
00:39:25.739 --> 00:39:33.179
I do love Nicola's internal explanation because as we've discussed before, she is a very considerate and thoughtful actress.

612
00:39:33.239 --> 00:39:34.739
She thinks about why she's doing things.

613
00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:37.679
She has this story, she tells about her 1st theatre role.

614
00:39:37.739 --> 00:39:39.599
Although she had one action and one line.

615
00:39:39.659 --> 00:39:41.340
In one scene, she's scrubbing potatoes.

616
00:39:41.639 --> 00:39:43.320
Are you frozen?

617
00:39:43.380 --> 00:39:44.159
No, no.

618
00:39:44.219 --> 00:39:47.880
And she sat down and she wrote down why the potatoes are so important to this family.

619
00:39:47.940 --> 00:39:50.280
You know, this is a World War one drama, I believe.

620
00:39:50.340 --> 00:39:52.860
And then she has one line in the latest scene.

621
00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:58.199
She has to run in and explain the Russians are coming and she wrote another 2 pages on why she's so afraid of the Russians.

622
00:39:58.260 --> 00:40:01.559
You know, this is the thought that Nicola puts in to one action and one scene.

623
00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:04.980
Like, if you directors hated her forever.

624
00:40:05.760 --> 00:40:11.460
After she had to throw out the folder of notes she made on the fact that the 5th doctor looked like her father, et cetera, et cetera.

625
00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:16.980
She read the script to the twin dilemma and said to herself, why would Perry stay with this man?

626
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:19.440
And her rationale was this?

627
00:40:19.679 --> 00:40:23.280
The doctor saved her life at the cost of his own.

628
00:40:23.579 --> 00:40:32.880
And during the course of the 1st story, she still sees moments where he is kind and he is sympathetic and she says, I am going to save his life.

629
00:40:32.940 --> 00:40:34.139
He is losing his life.

630
00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:35.099
He is losing his mind.

631
00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:38.699
I am going to stay with him and repay that debt.

632
00:40:38.760 --> 00:40:41.159
And if only that had come out.

633
00:40:41.219 --> 00:40:43.440
And that last...

634
00:40:43.739 --> 00:40:45.420
That last scene would have been perfect to do it.

635
00:40:45.480 --> 00:40:46.739
And I'm not blaming Nicola.

636
00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:48.119
There was no prep time for this story.

637
00:40:48.119 --> 00:40:53.519
And indeed, we know that the actors were not always listened to under this regime.

638
00:40:53.519 --> 00:41:00.059
But you know, if the doctor had said, I'm the doctor, whether you like it or not, she will say, if she could have said, I don't like it.

639
00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:02.820
But I'm going to make sure that I do.

640
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:04.320
And then walk off.

641
00:41:04.380 --> 00:41:08.940
And if we could have had the doctor's face off on that, like, what the hell does that mean?

642
00:41:09.059 --> 00:41:11.400
And that would have been...

643
00:41:11.460 --> 00:41:12.539
It would have been hope?

644
00:41:12.599 --> 00:41:13.619
says Kank St.

645
00:41:13.619 --> 00:41:14.460
Carrie Fisher, yes.

646
00:41:14.579 --> 00:41:15.719
It would have been...

647
00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:15.960
St.

648
00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:16.739
Digital Carrie Fisher.

649
00:41:16.860 --> 00:41:18.360
It would have been hope.

650
00:41:18.420 --> 00:41:21.360
It would have been uncertainty, which we already have.

651
00:41:21.420 --> 00:41:36.420
And it would have been, while it's a slightly negative note, it also would have been a positive note that Perry's like, I have not forgotten how you've been acting, and I'm not going to put up with it, it would have turned it to the doctor saying you're stuck with me, and she would have said, no, you're stuck with me.

652
00:41:37.260 --> 00:41:43.380
I think in the context, though, there is a 4th wall thing where it is a challenge to the audience.

653
00:41:43.500 --> 00:41:44.400
Which is a bad idea.

654
00:41:44.460 --> 00:41:46.260
Yeah, which I just think is a bad idea.

655
00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:57.300
And what ends up happening is they tune in next year for an episode to see how things turn out and then decide, all right, we're not back and the and the viewing figures crater.

656
00:41:57.360 --> 00:42:00.420
And I think that that's a delayed reaction to what goes on here.

657
00:42:01.199 --> 00:42:03.420
Can I say a few things I like?

658
00:42:03.480 --> 00:42:07.260
I think possibly there's a moment of respite?

659
00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:07.920
Ranium.

660
00:42:08.159 --> 00:42:18.539
And especially this comes more from my black and white viewing of it, because I didn't realise how distracting I found Colin's coat until I turned the colour down and I could focus on his face.

661
00:42:19.079 --> 00:42:26.099
That bit where they 1st arrive on jacondar and he steps out of the Tardis narrating about the giant slugs, the speech is terrible.

662
00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:27.420
The dialogue is terrible.

663
00:42:27.539 --> 00:42:29.460
It's a horrific info dump.

664
00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:34.079
But after a while, I stopped listening to the words and I started listening to the voice.

665
00:42:34.139 --> 00:42:35.639
Oh, he's got a great voice.

666
00:42:35.699 --> 00:42:45.900
He's got a great voice and his face during that performance, he is heartbroken and appalled by what has happened, not only to this planet, but to the people, and it's all on his face, and it's all in his voice.

667
00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:50.099
And then he very sensibly goes, I'm going to go back in the TARDIS and think about this.

668
00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:52.860
He doesn't go, we're going to go charging off.

669
00:42:52.980 --> 00:42:56.039
And his little tantrum in the TARDIS.

670
00:42:56.099 --> 00:43:00.119
He has this moment of self-awareness where he's like, I am in no condition to save a planet.

671
00:43:00.179 --> 00:43:00.900
Yeah, yeah.

672
00:43:00.900 --> 00:43:05.639
And unfortunately, it's solved by Eric Saywood's favourite thing about someone pointing a gun at his face.

673
00:43:05.699 --> 00:43:09.420
You know, it would have been better for Perry to say, I'll look after you.

674
00:43:09.480 --> 00:43:11.219
I'll make sure we solve this together.

675
00:43:11.280 --> 00:43:12.179
That's what we do.

676
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:14.400
Because Perry starts to persuade him.

677
00:43:14.460 --> 00:43:18.420
And then Hugo shoves a gun in his face and it's just like, oh, for goodness sake, Eric.

678
00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:20.699
I almost needed you to bleed me again.

679
00:43:20.760 --> 00:43:23.280
So, you know, that's a good thing.

680
00:43:23.940 --> 00:43:30.059
Um, The doctor gives Mestor a chance before he throws the acid in his face.

681
00:43:30.119 --> 00:43:31.980
He says, I don't tolerate this plan.

682
00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:32.760
It's going to stop.

683
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:37.260
If it doesn't, I'm going to have I'm going to have to do something.

684
00:43:37.380 --> 00:43:41.099
But the thing is, as he points out, I didn't threaten him.

685
00:43:41.159 --> 00:43:44.460
I didn't say I was going to do anything to you, I said, I'm not going to put up with this.

686
00:43:44.940 --> 00:43:56.039
There's the bit where he's cradling Asmail in his arms, as you say, Todd, that is a beautiful moment, and both Colin and Maurice Denham, who Colin respected greatly.

687
00:43:56.099 --> 00:43:58.320
He couldn't believe they got Morris Denim for his 1st story.

688
00:43:58.380 --> 00:44:01.079
They both bring it right down low.

689
00:44:01.139 --> 00:44:02.699
It's a really lovely character moment.

690
00:44:02.760 --> 00:44:08.880
My problem with that scene is it robs, like the rest of the script has been doing.

691
00:44:08.940 --> 00:44:12.539
It robs the doctor of his redemptive chance in this story.

692
00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:14.820
Yeah, he doesn't get a proper hero moment and it's a mistake.

693
00:44:14.940 --> 00:44:25.320
I have one other Colin acting moment that I really like, which is when he inadvertently calls Perry Tegan, where he says Braveheart, Tegan.

694
00:44:25.380 --> 00:44:28.739
And then you get the music, the leaving music, is it from Resurrection?

695
00:44:28.860 --> 00:44:33.119
The Daleks, the Tegan, leaving music, and the doctor just sort of thinks back for a second.

696
00:44:33.239 --> 00:44:35.340
Like, I think that's really nice.

697
00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:40.380
It is a moment where he drops the bluster for a 2nd like he does in Asmael's death scene.

698
00:44:40.440 --> 00:44:46.380
There's another moment that I actually like, and it's the worst, some of the worst dialogue in the history of Doctor Who.

699
00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:47.699
Thank you, Eric Saywood.

700
00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:51.420
Well, he actually has to say regenerate yet...

701
00:44:51.420 --> 00:44:52.139
Ungenerate.

702
00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:55.019
And my memory cheated.

703
00:44:55.079 --> 00:44:59.579
And I actually thought it was season 23 common where everything is like overemphasised stage acting.

704
00:45:00.119 --> 00:45:01.980
But he actually drops it completely down.

705
00:45:02.099 --> 00:45:11.400
And I actually, and it was in that moment when I was watching this, I said, I'm going to watch this story, not for all the pathetic dialogue and things that I don't like.

706
00:45:11.460 --> 00:45:16.559
I'm going to watch it for your performance because you've just done something now that has surprised me that I had forgotten about it.

707
00:45:16.619 --> 00:45:25.079
And I want to see how you navigate yourself with no direction through all these twists and turns, and having to not say sorry, and what can you give to me?

708
00:45:25.139 --> 00:45:28.079
And Brendan, you've mentioned the whole facial stuff.

709
00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:30.539
And I can sit through 3 and 4 quite happily.

710
00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:37.739
I think it actually does come together towards the end more so than something like, I'm just going to say time flight, which I think just falls apart.

711
00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:39.000
But it's coming from such a low base.

712
00:45:39.059 --> 00:45:41.159
Episode one is seriously.

713
00:45:41.219 --> 00:45:47.460
So, but if I just say to listeners out there, you can Not like the character.

714
00:45:47.519 --> 00:45:49.500
Not like the story.

715
00:45:49.559 --> 00:45:51.539
Not like the dialogue, not like what happens.

716
00:45:51.599 --> 00:46:03.659
But if you are ever going to sit down and watch this, just watch Collins performance throughout and what he has to navigate as a lead actor that I don't think any other lead actor has actually had to navigate in history for sure.

717
00:46:03.719 --> 00:46:11.280
And so when he says those final things with period the TARDIS, I felt that I'd earned it as a kid, I had no problems with it, right?

718
00:46:11.340 --> 00:46:17.039
I mentioned previously that I could not see the difference between the previous story and this as a child.

719
00:46:17.099 --> 00:46:19.920
Obviously, I can see the difference there.

720
00:46:20.460 --> 00:46:26.579
But as a child, there was a confident doctor in charge who was prepared to take charge.

721
00:46:26.579 --> 00:46:31.079
And that was, that's what I was used to with Tom and John, not used to with Peter.

722
00:46:31.139 --> 00:46:32.039
Right?

723
00:46:32.099 --> 00:46:42.480
And so for me, to have 3 years of Peter, that thing around and losing, at a time when I was at school, I was getting really harassed and picked on.

724
00:46:46.619 --> 00:46:48.000
And my hero wasn't there for me.

725
00:46:48.059 --> 00:46:48.960
Yeah, yeah.

726
00:46:48.960 --> 00:46:51.719
And in this one story, my hero came back.

727
00:46:51.780 --> 00:46:56.760
He might have been erratic, he might have done some horrible things, but by the end of this story, my hero was back.

728
00:46:56.820 --> 00:47:02.820
He was in charge, and you know, he was going to tell the Chamberlain, well, bad luck, baby, you've been a collaborator, you deal with it.

729
00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:04.199
Well, Hugo, I think you're a fool.

730
00:47:04.260 --> 00:47:04.800
I don't care.

731
00:47:04.860 --> 00:47:05.940
He's telling them what for.

732
00:47:06.000 --> 00:47:10.320
He's not going, oh, oh, I'm going to hurt your feelings if I say what I really think.

733
00:47:10.380 --> 00:47:15.840
And so for me, I have such, the guys here, I think, can see that I'm getting very emotional.

734
00:47:15.900 --> 00:47:18.900
And so for me, the doctor was back.

735
00:47:19.260 --> 00:47:32.880
I think that's what Todd says so beautifully is why Doctor Who is so important to us, and hopefully, you know, people who are listening to this as well, is because it touches that part of you that can't express itself when you're a child.

736
00:47:32.940 --> 00:47:33.900
He is our voice.

737
00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:35.699
And for some of us, he was a father figure.

738
00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:40.139
You know, I didn't grow up with a father, so for me, it was Tom Baker and Patrick McNeve.

739
00:47:40.199 --> 00:47:41.519
It shows.

740
00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:45.599
But no, that's exactly true, Todd.

741
00:47:45.659 --> 00:47:57.119
I was thinking that watching not just this one, but the Peter Davidson's era and Todd touched on something really beautiful there was that Peter, we didn't feel, and I don't think it's Peter's fault. scripted today.

742
00:47:57.179 --> 00:47:58.440
He didn't come up to the part of the doctor.

743
00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:01.199
Peter never felt confident that he'd be able to pull it off.

744
00:48:01.260 --> 00:48:12.360
And the production stuff and crew instead of coming to his rescue, played along with that, and underwrote the part or made him the prat falling doctor.

745
00:48:12.420 --> 00:48:13.800
He really didn't succeed.

746
00:48:13.860 --> 00:48:19.860
He only has that moment at the end where he does all his prep falls because I'm doing this for a purpose.

747
00:48:19.920 --> 00:48:21.599
I'm doing it for the person who trusted me.

748
00:48:21.659 --> 00:48:23.460
And more importantly, I don't know her.

749
00:48:23.519 --> 00:48:25.739
We don't really have a relationship, but that's not the point.

750
00:48:25.800 --> 00:48:27.480
The point is she's put her trust in me.

751
00:48:27.539 --> 00:48:32.880
I must therefore come up to that and do the same with her and he's thoroughly redeemed.

752
00:48:32.940 --> 00:48:49.679
And actually, Colin, and it's nothing to do with the script, and it's nothing to do with anyone else on the crew, but Colin and Nicola, just in their acting, just in their performance, just in their presence, after that appalling scene, that I can never forgive, because no doctor should ever attack a companion on any level.

753
00:48:49.739 --> 00:48:55.980
But they still have that moment where you sort of think, I think these 2 might actually manage to save this.

754
00:48:56.039 --> 00:49:04.380
Yeah, I do often wonder, because the copy of this I had as a kid, the strangulation scene was massively cut down.

755
00:49:04.440 --> 00:49:07.079
What happens is this is from the 93 repeat season?

756
00:49:07.139 --> 00:49:13.139
The doctor lunges at Perry, we cut straight to the mirror shot and he recoils.

757
00:49:13.199 --> 00:49:16.920
So I knew there was the full strangulation because I'd read the novelisation.

758
00:49:16.980 --> 00:49:18.420
And he really throws her around.

759
00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:20.880
Yeah, I mean, that is...

760
00:49:20.940 --> 00:49:24.719
But the thing is, it works just as a lunge.

761
00:49:24.780 --> 00:49:25.920
Look at yourself in the mirror after.

762
00:49:25.980 --> 00:49:26.639
Which is all it should have been.

763
00:49:26.699 --> 00:49:26.880
Yeah.

764
00:49:26.880 --> 00:49:27.179
Yeah.

765
00:49:27.239 --> 00:49:47.579
And for that reason, as a kid, when I saw this when I was about 10 or 11 years old, it bothered me a lot less than it does as an adult seeing the full thing because it was a violent moment along the lines of the illusory Tom at the end of Stones of Blood.

766
00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:49.500
You know, it was a flash and it's gone.

767
00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:53.639
Whereas, as it is in the program, it's horrible and it lingers.

768
00:49:53.699 --> 00:50:14.460
But I do wonder, if, if we did cut it down to the point that he kind of goes for her and then recoils, as we kind of mentioned earlier, Could we, as fans and viewers, be able to overlook that and look at more, find more positives in the story because it doesn't help that the story itself is not that strong anyway.

769
00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:18.840
It's full of logical inconsistencies and it's got at its heart.

770
00:50:18.900 --> 00:50:27.420
And literally, at the heart of the narrative, You have these 2 twins who, through no fault of their own, have been hired for a role they're not ready for.

771
00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:30.480
One of them acting, yeah.

772
00:50:30.539 --> 00:50:37.920
I mean, for instance, there's the whole thing about the transmat you mentioned earlier, Todd, that it'll send you about 10 seconds in time.

773
00:50:37.980 --> 00:50:45.480
In the original script, it was an hour back in time, but still the base exploded, and it was actually Eric Saywood, who said, um, Anthony, this doesn't make any sense.

774
00:50:45.539 --> 00:50:46.679
Why would it still explode?

775
00:50:46.739 --> 00:50:47.760
So we made it 10 seconds.

776
00:50:47.940 --> 00:50:55.079
Whereas finally, when Eric Saywood wrote the novelisation, he just wrote it as the doctor turned into a trans mat, which makes sense.

777
00:50:55.079 --> 00:51:00.059
Makes sense, but it doesn't make sense as it airs because it's still talking about 10 seconds when it just transmits.

778
00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:12.119
What's really bizarre, in terms of logical inconsistency, in episode three, Asmail says that the 2 outer planets will be brought into orbit around Jakonda.

779
00:51:12.179 --> 00:51:21.780
In episode four, Asmail says that the 2 planets will be brought into the same orbiters to Jakonda, but one Jakondan day ahead of each other because of time travel.

780
00:51:21.840 --> 00:51:25.260
But it's like, no, I wouldn't they be one day ahead in terms of distance?

781
00:51:25.320 --> 00:51:36.300
And then, of course, the doctor says, oh, but that close to the sun, they'll burn up, but it's like, well, but no, Mercury and Venus are smaller than Earth. you know what are you talking about?

782
00:51:36.360 --> 00:51:43.139
And it's, it never would have happened under Christopher Hamilton bid me, and I don't mean that as a joke.

783
00:51:43.199 --> 00:51:44.639
I mean, he would have liked it.

784
00:51:44.699 --> 00:51:49.739
Because he was scrupulous in his care for, you know, the facts of as far as they could go.

785
00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:51.900
You know, you can easily rewrite that to work.

786
00:51:51.960 --> 00:51:59.519
You can say, if you bring those into orbit, look at this sum, look at that sum, they'll actually crash into the planet and send the eggs off anyway.

787
00:51:59.579 --> 00:52:02.159
I actually don't care at all about that.

788
00:52:02.219 --> 00:52:03.059
You know what I mean?

789
00:52:03.119 --> 00:52:03.780
Like whatever.

790
00:52:03.840 --> 00:52:06.599
You know, there's a whole heap of magic nonsense.

791
00:52:06.659 --> 00:52:16.320
But what doesn't work is that you've got Mestor, who is a villain who can apparently bring down a whole fleet of ships, which we don't see happening.

792
00:52:16.380 --> 00:52:25.079
There's really no action in those 1st 2 episodes at all, and we get this sort of word peril description of what happens to the spaceships, but we don't see it.

793
00:52:25.139 --> 00:52:30.420
And he can mind control everyone and he can do embolisms and all of that sort of thing.

794
00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:32.699
And it's kind of like, well, why?

795
00:52:32.699 --> 00:52:37.260
He's just a sort of stupid high concept villain, we've kind of no rationale.

796
00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:39.480
Do you know who he's cashing on of?

797
00:52:39.539 --> 00:52:39.960
don't you?

798
00:52:40.019 --> 00:52:40.980
You know who they were trying to do?

799
00:52:41.039 --> 00:52:42.179
Jabber the heart.

800
00:52:42.239 --> 00:52:44.400
Which is why he lost after Perry.

801
00:52:44.460 --> 00:52:46.139
Oh, and that's what it was going to be.

802
00:52:46.199 --> 00:52:50.039
Again, let's watch more men lust after Perry.

803
00:52:50.099 --> 00:52:53.099
But it's, it's, Miss Doors, like jazz hand.

804
00:52:53.159 --> 00:52:55.079
It's a jazz...

805
00:52:55.079 --> 00:52:56.159
Oh, as may I?

806
00:52:56.219 --> 00:53:03.659
this is happening or whatever, but it's like, Eric, haven't you already given this to us with the pterodeptils and didn't, didn't earlier this season?

807
00:53:03.719 --> 00:53:08.219
didn't we have like the gravis and them also having the same little pathetic little jazz hands?

808
00:53:08.280 --> 00:53:13.019
It was nice to see John Barram and even in a mask, in a role, you know, only in his early 40s.

809
00:53:13.079 --> 00:53:14.639
But do you know who it really is?

810
00:53:14.699 --> 00:53:17.460
It's Captain Hart from the Sea Devils.

811
00:53:17.579 --> 00:53:19.139
It really is.

812
00:53:19.199 --> 00:53:21.780
It's Professor... the famous five.

813
00:53:21.840 --> 00:53:22.860
Edwin Richfield.

814
00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:23.519
Yes, it is.

815
00:53:24.360 --> 00:53:25.800
Why?

816
00:53:25.860 --> 00:53:26.880
I know.

817
00:53:26.940 --> 00:53:29.219
I was so sorry for him the whole time.

818
00:53:29.280 --> 00:53:31.139
It's great and sea devil.

819
00:53:31.199 --> 00:53:34.500
And to top and to top it all off, he's massively claustrophobic.

820
00:53:34.500 --> 00:53:37.320
And they knew when they cast him what the costume was going to be like.

821
00:53:37.380 --> 00:53:40.019
Because they're that bastardy.

822
00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:42.360
It's a stupid looking costume as well.

823
00:53:42.420 --> 00:53:51.239
And then you get scenes of a bunch of gastropods or 2 gastropods shuffle along the corridor depositing kind of quickset concrete.

824
00:53:51.239 --> 00:53:52.320
Farty substances.

825
00:53:52.380 --> 00:53:53.219
Yeah, yeah.

826
00:53:53.280 --> 00:53:55.440
And they just look ridiculous.

827
00:53:55.500 --> 00:53:58.199
I mean, they really are a truly terrible monster.

828
00:53:58.260 --> 00:54:02.219
He's a threat which has no kind of origin, no particular point to it.

829
00:54:02.280 --> 00:54:04.380
He's like the swarm, isn't he?

830
00:54:04.440 --> 00:54:11.039
is obsessed with breeding and spreading his DNA all over the place, like a, you know, horny teenager.

831
00:54:11.099 --> 00:54:19.139
It's really just a truly, truly undercooked, thin, absurd premise.

832
00:54:19.199 --> 00:54:29.579
And when you compare it to the sophistication of last week's story, it's just inexplicable that they would give Colin as his 1st story, a story where he doesn't get to be the doctor.

833
00:54:29.699 --> 00:54:32.820
You know, he doesn't get to solve the problem.

834
00:54:32.880 --> 00:54:35.579
He doesn't get a hero moment.

835
00:54:35.639 --> 00:54:39.179
It really, really, fatally flaws the character.

836
00:54:39.239 --> 00:54:40.079
It's a big problem.

837
00:54:40.199 --> 00:54:51.599
It's a big problem because the writers of next season will just look at this and go, this is what we base things on. and that will influence how they write the Dr. Perry relationship.

838
00:54:51.659 --> 00:54:53.280
Obviously, it's never as bad as this.

839
00:54:53.340 --> 00:54:54.000
I don't believe.

840
00:54:54.059 --> 00:54:57.719
Again, but we'll discuss those pros and cons next season.

841
00:54:57.840 --> 00:55:03.360
But, you know, gives everybody 9 months to cogitate over this, you know?

842
00:55:03.780 --> 00:55:12.300
I feel like you can choose to stay in that moment where he attacks her or you can choose to be in the moment at the end where they're smiling at each other and there is hope for the future.

843
00:55:12.360 --> 00:55:14.400
And that's a moment that I choose to stay in.

844
00:55:14.460 --> 00:55:18.360
If you choose to be in the 1st, you're never going to find anything you like over the next 2 years.

845
00:55:19.739 --> 00:55:22.800
I find it fascinating in science fiction.

846
00:55:22.860 --> 00:55:24.599
There is this.

847
00:55:25.500 --> 00:55:35.940
There is this troop that people have to do at least once per series. say trope with characters acting wildly out of character.

848
00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:37.619
They do, don't they?

849
00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:47.460
And there's a not a good example, I should say, but there is a cogent example, a few years later in the 1st season of Star Trek, the Next Generation.

850
00:55:47.519 --> 00:55:49.440
The naked now.

851
00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:50.280
The naked now.

852
00:55:50.340 --> 00:55:54.599
Now, it was filmed as the 1st regular episode of the series after the pilot film.

853
00:55:54.960 --> 00:56:03.360
And um, the cast members, I believe it's Lavar Burton, who went on to become a prolific director of the series.

854
00:56:03.420 --> 00:56:11.579
LeVar Burton said, I think the problem with the naked now, wasn't that it was using an idea borrowed from the original series.

855
00:56:11.639 --> 00:56:16.800
It was that they were getting us to act out of character before we knew who our characters was.

856
00:56:16.860 --> 00:56:23.460
I think Russell makes the same mistake with David Tennant in whose 1st regular episode he gets taken over by Cassandra.

857
00:56:23.519 --> 00:56:30.780
And, you know, like he's terribly funny, but I do think it's too early in his run to see him, again, behaving out of character.

858
00:56:30.840 --> 00:56:32.219
Something's not quite right.

859
00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:34.019
I know when you watch that, you kind of...

860
00:56:34.019 --> 00:56:47.760
I mean, he's funny and we know him now and it's all alright, but because imagine in this story, if you had Colin, essentially being his more bombastic, but more settled self we come to know later on.

861
00:56:47.820 --> 00:56:52.380
And there were just, but there were just a little flashes of darkness that he would kind of shake off.

862
00:56:52.380 --> 00:56:58.559
And then maybe in 2 or 3 stories, we have the story where he runs amok and he's worried about unregenerating.

863
00:56:58.619 --> 00:57:09.840
You know, rather than do that in his very 1st appearance, seed it, but then do it later when we've gotten to know him and it means something, all it means to us at this point is that...

864
00:57:10.139 --> 00:57:12.239
We don't know who he is.

865
00:57:12.300 --> 00:57:21.840
And we didn't know who didn't really know who Davison's doctor was at the end of his story, but it was an intriguing mystery because we weren't given any contradictory information.

866
00:57:21.900 --> 00:57:23.099
We were just given little snippets.

867
00:57:23.159 --> 00:57:33.300
I said at the time, actually, with Pete's 1st story, that he likewise doesn't get a proper hero moment, you know, that he's up against, you know, the master, but it's not really that great.

868
00:57:33.360 --> 00:57:42.360
Whereas you compare, you know, Tom's 1st story and he's up against a giant robot. you know, that's kind of exciting and I just think more thought needed to be given.

869
00:57:42.960 --> 00:57:45.659
Especially since it's the end of the season.

870
00:57:45.719 --> 00:57:48.599
I doesn't have a whole year. to sort of win people over.

871
00:57:48.659 --> 00:57:49.679
Yeah, that's right.

872
00:57:49.739 --> 00:57:52.440
It's not like we can tune in next week and see that he's settled down.

873
00:57:52.500 --> 00:57:54.659
We've got 9 months to wait now.

874
00:57:54.719 --> 00:58:03.960
Yeah, I do think probably the star performer in this story who comes out looking the best, if you like, is Kevin McNally as Hugo.

875
00:58:04.079 --> 00:58:08.940
I think he has a nice clear character from beginning to end.

876
00:58:09.000 --> 00:58:15.900
His ending is a bit weird when he decides to stay on the planet, but we don't have anything that contradicts what he says about not having anyone back home.

877
00:58:15.960 --> 00:58:18.300
I do like the doctor's line about that.

878
00:58:18.360 --> 00:58:19.980
Yeah, that I can believe.

879
00:58:20.400 --> 00:58:23.880
Again, again, the way it's delivered, I think is perfect.

880
00:58:24.000 --> 00:58:26.219
He's got good comic timing, colon, I think.

881
00:58:26.280 --> 00:58:28.079
Yeah, it's it's not a cruelly delivered line.

882
00:58:28.139 --> 00:58:29.460
It's like this is what I genuinely think.

883
00:58:29.519 --> 00:58:32.880
And to be fair, Hugo has been pointing a gun at him the whole time.

884
00:58:32.940 --> 00:58:34.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

885
00:58:34.139 --> 00:58:37.679
Well, it's Eric Saywood's inability to write characters that are not horrible.

886
00:58:37.739 --> 00:58:41.579
Yeah, that being said, Hugo maintains his character all the way through.

887
00:58:41.699 --> 00:58:53.699
I think Nicola is the person that holds this story together as much as it is held together because she's the one having the human reaction to things.

888
00:58:53.699 --> 00:58:58.800
Her human reaction is generally believable and understandable.

889
00:58:58.800 --> 00:59:17.699
And even though she is manhandled, pushed from place to place, she very rarely loses her sense of agency and there's some great moments where she gives back to Colin and that bit where they land on Titan 3 and he does this bit about, except this weary penitent.

890
00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:19.860
Don't you just says, I think I'm gonna be sick.

891
00:59:19.920 --> 00:59:24.719
She rolls her eyes at my moment, one of those features, and I just burst out laughing every single time.

892
00:59:24.780 --> 00:59:27.059
Like, I find humour.

893
00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:33.119
I've got a very dark sense of humour and some of the stuff like we, he believes that he's doing the right thing by making her his hermit and everything like that.

894
00:59:33.179 --> 00:59:36.539
And I just burst out laughing because like she's done nothing wrong.

895
00:59:36.539 --> 00:59:42.840
And she's just the butt of all these things and now she's going to be this hermit because this will be good for you.

896
00:59:42.900 --> 00:59:44.940
I just I just laugh my head off.

897
00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:45.840
I mean, I'm sorry.

898
00:59:45.900 --> 00:59:47.460
I just...

899
00:59:47.519 --> 00:59:55.019
And what I love about those moments is she's pointing out the logical inconsistencies in what he's doing.

900
00:59:55.320 --> 00:59:59.820
And again, it's not in a mean way. you haven't checked the atmosphere.

901
00:59:59.880 --> 01:00:00.780
You haven't done this.

902
01:00:00.840 --> 01:00:01.619
You haven't done.

903
01:00:01.679 --> 01:00:02.400
Are you insane?

904
01:00:02.460 --> 01:00:08.280
It's what I really liked the other day, dear listeners, we went to see the Return of Dr. Mysterio.

905
01:00:08.340 --> 01:00:16.679
Matt Lucas. much like Perry in this story. is the one when the doctor says something that doesn't quite make sense.

906
01:00:16.739 --> 01:00:17.760
He'll point out what Well, hold on.

907
01:00:17.820 --> 01:00:18.780
New York's not a capital city.

908
01:00:18.840 --> 01:00:20.880
Hold on, you haven't thought about this.

909
01:00:20.940 --> 01:00:33.000
And my favourite line in the whole special when the doctor does the unpredictable, like Colin Baker does here, is Matt Lucas being strangled, saying, I know you miss her, but couldn't you just write a poem?

910
01:00:33.360 --> 01:00:35.760
You know, that is brilliant.

911
01:00:35.820 --> 01:00:36.420
That is brilliant.

912
01:00:36.539 --> 01:00:44.219
Okay, we should get on to our Jenny Laird awards for most puzzling creative choice for this season.

913
01:00:44.280 --> 01:00:46.980
God, who wants to make a start on this?

914
01:00:50.039 --> 01:00:51.420
I've got several nominations.

915
01:00:51.480 --> 01:00:52.260
Yes, go on.

916
01:00:52.320 --> 01:00:58.019
Could we maybe we could recuse the twin dilemma from this from this Jenny Ladd Award.

917
01:00:58.079 --> 01:00:59.219
It is part of it, though.

918
01:00:59.280 --> 01:01:00.059
I guess so.

919
01:01:00.119 --> 01:01:03.960
Yeah, I think we need to, I mean, we've got the coat, but I really like the coat, so I'm not going to go with that.

920
01:01:04.019 --> 01:01:05.519
The strangulation is completely wrong.

921
01:01:05.579 --> 01:01:06.420
It's certainly up there.

922
01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:12.119
We've got, like, the Merka is something, but I actually think that stupid door that falls on Tegan.

923
01:01:12.179 --> 01:01:13.800
That's worse than the movie.

924
01:01:13.860 --> 01:01:16.199
We've got the karate kick, which I love to death.

925
01:01:16.260 --> 01:01:17.159
It is funny.

926
01:01:17.219 --> 01:01:17.940
I don't know.

927
01:01:18.000 --> 01:01:22.619
I think I'm going to go with, if you're going to do a flashback sequence, you need to include every single companion in it.

928
01:01:22.679 --> 01:01:26.820
And the fact that in Resurrection, the Daleks, Leila is not in that flashback sequence.

929
01:01:26.820 --> 01:01:31.199
And you've got a so-called advisor to the producer and the script editor.

930
01:01:31.260 --> 01:01:32.940
It's unforgivable Yep.

931
01:01:33.360 --> 01:01:40.559
Well, I think it has to be introducing Colin at the end of the season when everyone's sick of everything.

932
01:01:40.619 --> 01:01:45.059
We've rehashed that this episode, but I think it's a disastrous decision.

933
01:01:45.119 --> 01:01:45.719
Yes.

934
01:01:45.719 --> 01:01:53.639
I'm going to avoid the twin dilemma simply because I sometimes like to pick my Jenny Leds based on what the hell was happening.

935
01:01:53.699 --> 01:01:57.119
Like twin dilemma, we can very easily point out what's wrong with it.

936
01:01:57.239 --> 01:02:02.880
But I do not understand how an actor of Tom Adams calibre can give that performance in Warriors of the Deep.

937
01:02:02.940 --> 01:02:03.719
So it's Tom Adams.

938
01:02:03.780 --> 01:02:05.699
Golly golly gosh.

939
01:02:05.760 --> 01:02:13.260
I need to actually remember that there was another doctor before Colin Bacon. so much time looking at this thing on the end of the.

940
01:02:13.500 --> 01:02:15.000
Yeah.

941
01:02:15.059 --> 01:02:20.219
I mean, if it was a sheep, you'd go and have a put down rather than just shave it off.

942
01:02:20.280 --> 01:02:24.059
Um, what have we seen this season?

943
01:02:24.119 --> 01:02:26.280
Sorry, I really need to go...

944
01:02:26.340 --> 01:02:27.239
The awakening.

945
01:02:27.239 --> 01:02:28.079
Frontie arse.

946
01:02:28.139 --> 01:02:29.159
Um...

947
01:02:29.159 --> 01:02:31.139
Resurrection to Darks, you'd love that.

948
01:02:31.199 --> 01:02:32.159
Yeah, thank you, Todd.

949
01:02:32.219 --> 01:02:36.239
Resurrection of the Dikes, my puzzling creative choice would simply be Eric's same.

950
01:02:36.719 --> 01:02:45.659
Beautiful direction and lovely lighting and actually very good casting, but yeah, my posting creative choice is what was what was Eric thinking, really?

951
01:02:45.719 --> 01:02:47.460
Guns are great.

952
01:02:47.519 --> 01:02:49.679
I can't think of anything more fresh to say.

953
01:02:49.739 --> 01:03:00.719
There was so much that should have almost worked and there was so much that almost worked and is, in fact, rescued by the collective goodwill of everyone involved.

954
01:03:00.780 --> 01:03:04.500
And then by the end of the season, it's not just one circumstance.

955
01:03:04.559 --> 01:03:12.000
It's the Christmas tree toppling over because everything that was, you know, surrounded by goodwill.

956
01:03:12.059 --> 01:03:13.980
It's Trumpian in its scale.

957
01:03:14.039 --> 01:03:16.440
It's all kind of, it's like, sorry, that Goodwill is just gone.

958
01:03:16.500 --> 01:03:17.519
This is what happened.

959
01:03:17.579 --> 01:03:19.920
I think I said during season 20.

960
01:03:20.159 --> 01:03:25.079
It's kind of like you can fly by the seat of your pants for one story a season.

961
01:03:25.139 --> 01:03:25.739
Yep.

962
01:03:25.739 --> 01:03:30.780
But to do it all the time, you're gonna end up with the Christmas tree falling over, yeah.

963
01:03:30.840 --> 01:03:31.559
Yeah, I like that.

964
01:03:31.920 --> 01:03:34.800
Picks of the week, picks of the season.

965
01:03:36.420 --> 01:03:40.440
I'm going to jump in with, as we have alluded to before.

966
01:03:40.559 --> 01:03:49.199
Big Finish have inserted a, um, a great range of audio dramas with...

967
01:03:49.199 --> 01:03:50.699
Intercom Baker's career.

968
01:03:50.760 --> 01:03:53.519
But before we get there, into Peter Davidson's era.

969
01:03:53.579 --> 01:04:01.079
So there are 3 audios with the 5th doctor in Turlough between Resurrection of Daleks and Planet of Fire.

970
01:04:01.139 --> 01:04:06.179
There are so few because of Mark Strickson's limited availability.

971
01:04:06.239 --> 01:04:08.519
He's a producer of wildlife documentaries now.

972
01:04:08.579 --> 01:04:19.619
But I'm going to choose an audio from the range with Nicola Bryant and Peter Davidson are given an extended series of adventures between Planet of Fire and CaveSpan resigning.

973
01:04:19.679 --> 01:04:25.619
They work beautifully together with his sort of English sensibility and politeness and her bluntness.

974
01:04:25.980 --> 01:04:32.280
They're also given another companion who is a forgotten pharaoh. played by Carolyn Morris.

975
01:04:32.340 --> 01:04:33.239
That's Eramem.

976
01:04:33.300 --> 01:04:37.500
And I'm actually going to choose, I believe this is available for free from Big Finish.

977
01:04:37.559 --> 01:04:40.260
There's a two-part story called The Veiled Leopard.

978
01:04:40.320 --> 01:04:41.519
There is indeed.

979
01:04:41.519 --> 01:04:50.159
In which Perry and Eramm are sent by the doctor to prevent the theft of a diamond from a society party.

980
01:04:50.219 --> 01:04:51.659
So Peter Davidson's not actually in it.

981
01:04:51.780 --> 01:04:58.679
But little do they know that the thieves of the diamond are companions of the 7th doctor, Ace and Hex.

982
01:04:58.739 --> 01:05:00.719
So it's a two-part story.

983
01:05:00.780 --> 01:05:05.760
The 1st part is told from Perry and RMM's perspective and the 2nd part is told from Ace and Hex's perspective.

984
01:05:05.820 --> 01:05:09.000
It is a lovely, lovely little two-parter.

985
01:05:09.059 --> 01:05:12.000
And yeah, we will find a link for it.

986
01:05:12.059 --> 01:05:16.860
It was free on the cover of Doctor magazine, and all those free audios have now been released for free by Big Finish.

987
01:05:16.920 --> 01:05:21.300
Just in case anyone else is going to recommend any other titles. from that range.

988
01:05:21.360 --> 01:05:23.820
I won't mention them, but yeah, the Vale leopard.

989
01:05:24.420 --> 01:05:32.820
I'm going to give a very self-serving recommendation. something that you alluded to, Brendan, in your closing remarks in a recent episode.

990
01:05:32.880 --> 01:05:54.480
And that is, I've spent a little while rewriting the randomiser, which is a website at the randomiser.net, which I launched, I think, in 2014, uh, and it lets you choose a Doctor Who story at random, so that you just don't always cycle around your usual favourites, and uh, you maybe take yourself out of your comfort zone.

991
01:05:54.539 --> 01:06:10.860
But if you're not keen to be taken out of your comfort zone, you can always just pick particular doctors or stories of a certain length or stories that don't have missing episodes, and you can also set it to record its history, and to not go back and offer you a story that you've seen before.

992
01:06:10.920 --> 01:06:14.820
It's been improved and re-architected and deployed.

993
01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:21.239
And I'd love you all at home, dear listener, to um, go and have a look at it and um, let me know what you think.

994
01:06:21.300 --> 01:06:22.199
It's lovely.

995
01:06:22.260 --> 01:06:24.360
It won't clean your teeth but it will tuck you in.

996
01:06:24.420 --> 01:06:25.860
Yes.

997
01:06:25.920 --> 01:06:26.940
Nice like that.

998
01:06:27.719 --> 01:06:30.360
I haven't been around a lot for this season.

999
01:06:30.420 --> 01:06:32.699
It's only been the last couple of podcasts.

1000
01:06:32.760 --> 01:06:38.400
I haven't really thought about this Warriors of the Deep is one of my underrated stories, and I quite like it.

1001
01:06:38.460 --> 01:06:40.920
So I'm going to recommend a prequel.

1002
01:06:40.980 --> 01:06:41.699
To that.

1003
01:06:41.760 --> 01:06:43.559
It's called the Doctor Who in the Sunurians.

1004
01:06:44.280 --> 01:06:46.920
And I'm going to recommend a sequel.

1005
01:06:47.159 --> 01:06:49.199
It's an audio.

1006
01:06:49.260 --> 01:06:51.420
Big finish audio with Colin Baker, maybe stadium.

1007
01:06:52.019 --> 01:06:54.059
And a baby merka.

1008
01:06:54.119 --> 01:06:54.900
It's fantastic.

1009
01:06:54.960 --> 01:06:55.980
It's called blood time.

1010
01:06:56.039 --> 01:06:58.440
I love blood tide. was going to be one of mine.

1011
01:06:58.500 --> 01:06:59.699
Fantastic.

1012
01:06:59.760 --> 01:07:01.139
I've got a copy of it here, yeah.

1013
01:07:01.199 --> 01:07:03.239
Friend of the podcast, Dan Hogarth.

1014
01:07:03.300 --> 01:07:03.780
It does.

1015
01:07:03.840 --> 01:07:08.760
Who gets a rather wonderful line that he uses at Doctor Who conventions to get free champagne.

1016
01:07:08.820 --> 01:07:11.699
Just give me a shampoo.

1017
01:07:11.699 --> 01:07:18.360
I was just like, I was a silo reading, but I'm tired.

1018
01:07:18.360 --> 01:07:21.960
Now bring me a bottle of champagne before I have you busted down to excrement shovel up.

1019
01:07:22.019 --> 01:07:22.440
That's right.

1020
01:07:22.440 --> 01:07:26.579
He was he was the dawn French all the time in that skirt. going on his tea break.

1021
01:07:27.059 --> 01:07:29.880
We're talking Pete, aren't we?

1022
01:07:29.940 --> 01:07:32.340
Because we're doing...

1023
01:07:32.340 --> 01:07:33.599
But something relate.

1024
01:07:33.659 --> 01:07:36.659
I'm not a fan of them. missing adventure novels, any of them.

1025
01:07:36.719 --> 01:07:37.980
Goth opera disappointed me.

1026
01:07:38.039 --> 01:07:38.760
Sorry, Mr. Coon.

1027
01:07:38.820 --> 01:07:41.280
Cornell, when it 1st came out, and I'm not really a fan.

1028
01:07:41.340 --> 01:07:42.179
Cold fusion, though.

1029
01:07:42.239 --> 01:07:42.840
I really like.

1030
01:07:42.960 --> 01:07:44.460
So that's probably my pick.

1031
01:07:44.579 --> 01:07:47.820
That's come out finally as an audio.

1032
01:07:47.880 --> 01:07:51.780
It's a really good missing adventure novel with Pete Anderson surprises.

1033
01:07:51.840 --> 01:07:52.920
Todd's nodding as well.

1034
01:07:52.980 --> 01:07:54.300
I'm not going to give any of it away.

1035
01:07:54.360 --> 01:07:56.639
But, um, big finish have just brought it out.

1036
01:07:56.699 --> 01:07:58.199
It's really terrific.

1037
01:07:58.260 --> 01:08:00.000
I really enjoy that one.

1038
01:08:00.059 --> 01:08:01.500
And I love Pete in the audios.

1039
01:08:01.559 --> 01:08:10.800
I love him with, I love Red Dawn and Church and the Crown, which are the, I think, the 1st 2 with, but there's another RMM one in between them, I think, but...

1040
01:08:10.800 --> 01:08:12.780
I, the Scorpions, the 1st one.

1041
01:08:12.840 --> 01:08:14.159
I have the Scorpions, the 1st one.

1042
01:08:14.219 --> 01:08:14.760
It's so good.

1043
01:08:14.820 --> 01:08:15.659
Those 3 actually.

1044
01:08:15.719 --> 01:08:17.760
Red Dawn Eye, the Scorpion and Church in the Crown.

1045
01:08:17.819 --> 01:08:19.680
I've got them here if anyone wants to come over and listen to them.

1046
01:08:19.739 --> 01:08:21.119
You're more than welcome.

1047
01:08:21.180 --> 01:08:22.680
Yeah, that's what I'll be doing this afternoon.

1048
01:08:22.739 --> 01:08:23.819
No, they're really, really lovely.

1049
01:08:23.880 --> 01:08:26.039
I got a bit mucky after that.

1050
01:08:26.100 --> 01:08:28.380
They made a few mistakes in timing and everything else.

1051
01:08:28.439 --> 01:08:31.140
I think there's only one really poor one.

1052
01:08:31.199 --> 01:08:33.779
But...

1053
01:08:33.779 --> 01:08:34.619
Whatever it's called.

1054
01:08:34.680 --> 01:08:35.640
Yeah, necroment, yeah.

1055
01:08:35.699 --> 01:08:36.239
Yeah, awful.

1056
01:08:36.300 --> 01:08:38.819
But I once recorded a 10 minute rant about how long.

1057
01:08:38.880 --> 01:08:39.239
Did you good?

1058
01:08:39.300 --> 01:08:39.840
It's very nice.

1059
01:08:39.899 --> 01:08:40.500
It's dark.

1060
01:08:40.619 --> 01:08:41.579
Well, it's too dark.

1061
01:08:41.640 --> 01:08:44.399
But yeah, yeah, but those 1st 3 are just lovely, just charming.

1062
01:09:00.779 --> 01:09:03.479
We're leaving behind Season 21.

1063
01:09:03.659 --> 01:09:12.180
We're heading into the uncertain future, where slightly mixing up the format of flight through entirety for the next few seasons.

1064
01:09:12.300 --> 01:09:27.659
So Todd will join us for the whole of the Column Baker era, with Richard occasionally popping in for guest appearances, for then the Soulvest McCoy era, Richard will join us for all of that, and Todd will pop in for the occasional guest appearance rather than... loves that era.

1065
01:09:27.720 --> 01:09:28.260
Yes.

1066
01:09:28.260 --> 01:09:28.619
Yes.

1067
01:09:28.680 --> 01:09:31.979
We're going to make him do a commentary on Delta and the Bannerman.

1068
01:09:35.460 --> 01:09:37.920
You're going to put it on, aren't you?

1069
01:09:37.920 --> 01:09:38.819
when we do these.

1070
01:09:39.420 --> 01:09:41.100
No, no.

1071
01:09:41.100 --> 01:09:46.619
I've actually watched you enjoying Delta and the Man of Man Todd.

1072
01:09:46.680 --> 01:09:48.420
But we're getting ahead of ourselves.

1073
01:09:48.479 --> 01:09:57.600
Do stay tuned to flight through entirety.sexy, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter over on Bondfinger.com.

1074
01:09:57.659 --> 01:10:01.739
We recently finished the Roger Moore era of James Bond films with a view to a kill.

1075
01:10:01.800 --> 01:10:08.819
We also have all preceding official bond films as well as casino rail 1967 and never say never again.

1076
01:10:08.880 --> 01:10:11.159
Next month we'll be starting on my personal favourite bond.

1077
01:10:11.220 --> 01:10:13.140
Timothy Wrestleon Dalton.

1078
01:10:13.199 --> 01:10:14.939
What a coincidence.

1079
01:10:15.060 --> 01:10:16.020
That was his middle name.

1080
01:10:16.560 --> 01:10:22.500
That's on Bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and Bondfinger cast on Twitter.

1081
01:10:22.560 --> 01:10:26.880
Until next time, may none of the bubbles in your champagne end up in your bloodstream.

1082
01:10:26.939 --> 01:10:28.319
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

1083
01:10:28.380 --> 01:10:29.159
Good night.

1084
01:10:35.220 --> 01:10:36.960
And I'll see you soon.

1085
01:10:37.020 --> 01:10:39.479
Whether you like it or not.

1086
01:10:45.539 --> 01:10:51.659
That was Flightthrough Entirety with Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, Richard Stone and his Kenneth Williams Doll.

1087
01:10:51.720 --> 01:10:53.399
Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

1088
01:10:53.460 --> 01:10:57.300
This episode, Y, was recorded on the 28th of December 2016.

1089
01:10:57.539 --> 01:11:00.539
The next episode will be released on January 29th.

1090
01:11:00.600 --> 01:11:03.720
It's a shame to see Dennis Chinnery in such a thankless role.

1091
01:11:03.779 --> 01:11:06.659
One might almost say his genesis has been abused.

1092
01:11:12.779 --> 01:11:18.300
And it's what I really liked about Matt Smith's character, because in the new series...

1093
01:11:18.300 --> 01:11:19.920
I really liked Matt Smith in that as well.

1094
01:11:19.979 --> 01:11:21.000
Yeah, he was great.

1095
01:11:21.060 --> 01:11:29.880
In the new series, most Doctor Who companions have been, oh, Doctor, you're so wonderful, and you're so clever, and you're so... one of ma...

1096
01:11:29.880 --> 01:11:31.380
No, no, let him go.

1097
01:11:32.159 --> 01:11:36.960
I said Matt Smith instead of Matt Lucas didn't...

1098
01:11:37.020 --> 01:11:37.859
You know why, though?

1099
01:11:37.920 --> 01:11:40.020
Because, no, because...

1100
01:11:40.020 --> 01:11:41.399
Matt Smith is really good.

1101
01:11:41.460 --> 01:11:43.859
Yes, it's the same person in the rubber.

1102
01:11:43.920 --> 01:11:44.819
Sorry, can I ask this?

1103
01:11:44.880 --> 01:11:47.939
I We've gone one hour and 6 minutes.

1104
01:11:48.000 --> 01:11:48.600
Okay.

1105
01:11:49.979 --> 01:11:51.359
Okay.

1106
01:11:51.420 --> 01:11:52.619
I'll wrap.

1107
01:11:52.619 --> 01:11:55.619
But you know, they would listen to this if we went 13 hours.

1108
01:11:55.739 --> 01:11:57.899
I'll wait until you're back from the...

1109
01:11:57.960 --> 01:11:58.800
I don't think you should change that.

1110
01:11:58.859 --> 01:12:01.079
No, I think we'll leave it in, but I'll just correct myself.

1111
01:12:01.199 --> 01:12:02.220
I think that's really sweet.

1112
01:12:02.279 --> 01:12:07.500
And we should say, you know, that Matt Smith, Matt Smith telescopes beautifully into a Gibbs suit.

1113
01:12:09.119 --> 01:12:16.380
I did the doctor's written, Max Smith would do this much, it's much better for a younger doctor. like this whole thing.

1114
01:12:16.439 --> 01:12:18.779
Like this is a Met Smith energy that Peter Capelli.

1115
01:12:18.840 --> 01:12:20.039
That's where I thought you were coming from too.

1116
01:12:20.100 --> 01:12:20.520
Yeah, yeah.

1117
01:12:20.579 --> 01:12:23.699
Well, in terms of colon, and we probably won't use this because Nathan's in there.

1118
01:12:23.760 --> 01:12:24.840
Oh, I don't know.

1119
01:12:24.840 --> 01:12:34.800
I think the costume ages him about 10 years because he looks young and vital in Peter's costume, and inside his patchwork costume, it's weird.

1120
01:12:34.859 --> 01:12:39.060
It kind, it reduces his size and his physical presence.

1121
01:12:39.119 --> 01:12:40.739
I think because the costume takes over.

1122
01:12:40.800 --> 01:12:42.600
You can no longer see that he's there.

1123
01:12:42.659 --> 01:12:44.699
It also lampoons his performance.

1124
01:12:44.760 --> 01:12:50.939
Every extremity, every, every, every high note he hits is taken by the coat.

1125
01:12:51.000 --> 01:12:51.779
Yeah.

1126
01:12:51.840 --> 01:12:55.199
Okay, that how can you compete with your own costume?

1127
01:12:55.319 --> 01:12:57.359
Whereas put him in a sensible costume.

1128
01:12:57.420 --> 01:13:00.659
And his mood swings suddenly become far more effective because you don't expect them to happen.

1129
01:13:00.720 --> 01:13:01.859
Okay.

1130
01:13:01.920 --> 01:13:03.600
I'll resume what I was saying about that.

1131
01:13:03.659 --> 01:13:04.680
You could tie it tag, though.

1132
01:13:04.739 --> 01:13:07.380
Okay, so get my weeber.

1133
01:13:07.439 --> 01:13:09.000
Okay, very definitely.

1134
01:13:09.060 --> 01:13:09.600
Right.

1135
01:13:10.619 --> 01:13:13.199
So, as I meant to say,