Those Facepalming Moments

[00:36]

Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety.

The only Doctor Who podcast, which makes you dangerous to yourself when we're around.

I'm Nathan.

I'm James.

I'm Todd.

I'm Karen.

Well, this week we're all hiding inside this giant cake, ready to burst forth and either fix or ruin Amy and Rory's relationship.

Will a romantic trip to a recently plague free Venice help?

Let's find out, as we spend some quality holiday time, with the vampires of Venice.

So, Karen, are you pro Matt Smith jumping out of a cake or anti Matt Smith jumping out of the cake?

I'm going to have to say pro.

I watched it last night for the 1st time in a long time and I hadn't laughed so hard for so long.

[01:41]

It's a great moment It is, it is.

Just the look of total confusion on his face just adds to it, really.

He's trying to help, isn't he?

And he sort of stuffs it up by telling literally everyone there that he's kissed Amy and then he thinks he'll fix that by saying she's a great kisser.

And then he just sort of stands there.

And it's so well edited because we're made to feel uncomfortable just waiting for the shot to end.

And he does something random with his like right hand to like brush some paper out of the way or something and he sort of gulps and stuff, but he absolutely nails it, I think.

He's like one of those friends that you have.

You absolutely love them dearly, but they just make your face palm a lot.

Whilst I agree with you.

In terms of the editing of that, like, you know, it does make you sort of like embarrassed us to what's going on.

I actually find the ending of that really just, I'm kind of going, what?

Like, that's sort of the end of it.

Like, I don't find it awkward.

[02:41]

I just find it badly edited at that point.

It just sort of ends and I just don't like that bit of editing.

See, I think it's a deliberate choice.

And I think what this what this teaser does is it subverts the normal Doctor Who teaser.

So we've had the normal Doctor Who teaser.

And is originally scripted and and edited.

It was actually Isabella screaming going into the title sequence and they decided to flip it and make it, you know, a comedy opening instead.

And so that's the teaser.

As you watch it, the teaser is very clearly, Guido presenting Isabella to Rosanna, and then he leaves or is dragged out or whatever, and then she screams when she sees Francesco's fish teeth.

And that's absolutely meant to be where the titles are.

And instead, we intercut with Rory screaming at the same time at his sort of buck stew.

And then we get this sort of ludicrous scene.

[03:43]

And so the editing there where you're just kind of sitting there for a 2nd going, why aren't the opening credits coming in?

Like that's a deliberate sort of attempt to make us feel as awkward as that situation sort of clearly is?

And so, you know, like I reckon that the teaser is always about what the episode's going to be about.

And so a teaser that's all about Rosanna and Isabella and stuff gives the wrong impression because this is an episode about the doctor trying to fix Amy and Rory's relationship with varying degrees of success.

Everybody keeps looking at me at this point.

I actually think the whole, the way which is, the Amy Rory thing is it treated is, is like a rom-com.

Yeah.

And I don't think it's real.

Like it actually an, it's a double-edged sword.

Like, I'm just going to say this, like, you've got Rory treated as a eunuch.

Then Rory is just as good to be her brother rather than her actual lover, and then Rory's little light thing is smaller than the doctors.

[04:47]

And then Rory is saved by her.

At no point in this at all.

Does she ever say I'm sorry for this?

She never says I love you to Rory?

No.

And I think for me, watching it the 1st time through, this is the episode that did the most damage to Amy's character.

I just thought you're a selfish cow.

And, um, and it doesn't make Rory feel like a real person.

In fact, I don't think Rory feels like a real person, probably until he's plastic, and their relationship isn't real until that point either.

But, as I said, it's a double-edged sword because imagine if you started with, let's sit down and let's talk about this.

I mean how boring would that be?

So I actually really enjoy this episode.

And I find a lot of those things very funny, but at the same time, I do have a problem with...

At the expense of the character.

Well, that's what I feel.

And, you know, I've said in the past that I've had a problem with Amy and I've had a problem with Karen's performance, but I'm actually really liking Karen's performance this season because I watched past this as well and I think she does a great job at comedy and she actually plays this episode really well, but she can only play what's written.

Yeah.

And so yeah, so for me, the one negative in this is that I just don't, I just feel that it's treated like a rom-com sitcom and it does a real disservice to her character for me in this.

[06:00]

That actually makes sense.

Now that you say it.

Because it's been so long since I've watched, I just sort of took it at face value and didn't think too deeply into it, but I can see exactly what you're getting at with that.

It's quite true.

I mean, we're going to talk next week about, I think, how that issue is solved.

That that in fact, by the end of next week, it's very, very clear that Amy prefers Rory over the doctor.

In this episode, it's still touch and go.

And I think that scene, whether in Guido's place where they're arguing over who should accompany Amy to the school, and it's just assumed by Karen that the doctor should play her fiance, and then assumed by Karen that Rory should play her brother, and then Guido interjects and says, oh, I thought you were, you know, the doctor were the fiance.

[07:00]

So Whitehouse is sort of a comedy writer.

And Moffatt definitely is a comedy writer.

And so I think, yeah, we don't get a kind of level of realism about the relationship here.

It is kind of being played for laughs.

And I do think next week it won't be played for laughs.

And from next week onwards, it becomes clear that whenever Amy is given the choice between Rory and the doctor, she will always choose Rory.

And also next week, and sort of fairly kind of implausibly, I think, Amy will say to Rory, I love you for the 1st time. which seems odd the night before their wedding.

But whatever, you know.

Yeah, well, I mean, I can see that because it's pretty clear earlier than that, that she is very hesitant about getting married and I don't think it's because she doesn't like or love Rory.

I just think it's one of those moments where you think, holy crap, am I at that stage already?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I think this is about kind of escaping adulthood by regressing into your childhood.

[08:04]

It's um, it's a whole season of Doctor Who is the Runaway Bride.

Yeah.

Yeah, but I mean, she's running away deliberately in order to avoid adulthood and the doctor kind of has started to be aware that this is all going wrong. and he wants to fix it, but he doesn't manage it really at all this episode.

It's just interesting because like next week, I don't know if she actually says, I love you to Rory, like when he's actually there, I thought he's actually dead by that stage and she says, I never said, I love you.

Right?

And so, and he says it to her and like she will die for him, but I, even next week's episode, which I dearly love.

I still don't quite feel it at the end of it.

I mean, that's just me.

And it's only actually when she's with Vincent and the doctor. when I really feel it and think she does a wonderful job and you realise how much she does love Rory at that point.

So for me, I've still got these next few episodes with Wory where I still think that he's a mechanism for her plot lines.

He's not really a real person.

It's still moving all the pieces of the puzzle into the correct positions for the end of season.

[09:09]

So I guess that's the one thing I'm finding about this season and this sequence that, for me, difference from your opinion, Nathan.

Well, I wonder whether it does, because I think maybe you're right, because we've been spoiled by 5 years of Russell T. Davis writing sort of warm human relationships that we can really kind of believe on a sort of TV level.

And now you've got Stephen Moffatt, who's a sitcom writer and a sort of general smart ass, writing complicated plot lines and that kind of thing.

And so it's unsurprising that for a lot of people, these episodes don't land.

And you're certainly not the only person I've spoken to who doesn't like this episode.

No, I like this episode a lot.

It's just that that aspect of it, when I think about it, it leaves a bit of a bit of taste in my mouth.

I actually thoroughly enjoyed watching this.

I think Helen Macquarie is just phenomenal as the villainess of the piece.

Matt Smith is knocking it out of the ballpark.

[10:11]

And the comedy stuff is really, really good.

Plus the location.

I mean, when they land, like in Venice, which is not actually Venice, Croatia.

Yeah, yeah.

But I think that's just wonderful.

And the use of the psychic paper there, yes, it's at the expense of Rory, but it's so funny.

Yeah, I'm a huge fan of this episode as well.

Like not just the sort of comedy sitcom relationship staff, but just the actual plot.

And, you know, like next week, we wake up and it's all a dream.

Like next week, the plot's going to be sort of fairly thin.

But this is a proper Doctor Who episode, I think, that they managed to do at the same time.

Yeah, it sort of has the same feeling of the old historicals they used to do in some places worse written in some places better written.

It flows quite well.

Yeah, I kind of get a mask of Mandragra vibe from this story.

You know, the Italians setting. the fabulous costumes.

[11:11]

Yeah.

Yeah, it's really, I mean, it looks, it looks fantastic.

I think this is actually the 1st time that I've watched Vampires of Venice since I've actually been to Venice for the 1st time, right?

And, you know, like it's not always 100% super convincing.

It's not a feature film or anything like that and they didn't go to Venice and some of the canals are sort of fairly clearly CG'd in there.

So the canals are actually the moat of carefully castle.

Okay.

And then they composited them together with the Croatian filming.

Right, right.

There's one fantastic moment where Francesco dives into the water and we cut away just before he lands, and it's actually a sort of stylish directorial choice, but absolutely kind of compulsory because there wasn't any water there for him to fall into.

But I think it looks amazing.

I just think it looks so good.

This is the same recording block as Vincent and the doctor.

[12:15]

Yeah, but it's the same.

It's the same town. and they filmed Vincent in the hills around...

Right.

And that was actually part of the Venetian Empire originally.

So it's got kind of appropriate, you know, architecture.

Yeah.

For the most part, I actually agree with you.

I think I didn't even realise that a lot of those were composite shots with the water and that sort of thing.

I actually did not realise that.

And I think that's how good it is.

Plus, the costumes, like the girls were wearing and the guards and even the over top stuff that mother and son are wearing.

I just think just sell it completely.

Yeah.

So that scene when they 1st land and they're next to the Grand Canal, there's no water there.

That is, like it's a, it's a town square and they, they cut the scenes together so that just below the sort of the ledge where the water is, like it's just more ground.

Right.

Like they just added it all together.

[13:16]

It's really quite well done.

Photographically it works really, really well.

Yeah.

I do find there's 2 things that I don't like about the visual effects.

One is the way in which, uh, is it Francesca?

The sun is sort of killed off within like the light beaming like a 2nd by Amy, which I think is far too quick.

And I don't think is, for me, that convincing.

The other is when the doctor is up on the weather vane roof thing, that looks pretty ropey.

It's one of those ones where you kind of think this is actually a bit more ambitious than they're capable of pulling off.

But then you kind of remember, essentially, Doctor Who's always kind of done that.

And so I was prepared to give that a pass.

So he's climbing up the campanile. in St.

Mark's Square, which is absolutely recognisable.

And of course, it has to happen there.

That's like the Empire State Building in New York or something.

It's you know, the most salient landmark you can think of.

[14:17]

Yes, it's like David Tennant climbing up to the top of of the Empire State building without falling and now Matt's climbing up this without falling in this rain and CG, whereas Tom can climb up something, but unfortunately, Lou's grip, like, without really losing.

And then be harassed by all his companions.

I mean, it's a very David Tennanty kind of resolution.

Like the big hero moment and all of that sort of thing. you know, fiddling with a big mechanism and stuff while there's thunder and all of that sort of thing and then pulling a tiny, tiny switch on it, the smaller switch available to turn it off.

Though it's not quite a David Tennant RTD ending because it doesn't all end in one big explosion.

It just kind of fizzes out.

There's a speech that the doctor gives Rosanna when he confronts her for the second time.

We should talk about how they play against each other because I think they're amazing, but there's an absolute David Tennant speech where he says he's going to tear down the house of Calvieri stone by stone because Helen McCrory didn't know Isabella's name.

[15:30]

It's so tenanty.

And he delivers it so absolutely differently.

It's I've written down here in my notes.

It's just, I just found it extremely effective.

Yeah.

And it's because Matt is delivering it in a different way, but I just think they work so well together and it's such a shame they only have like a couple of major scenes, but they're delicious.

She really gets her teeth stuck into things, doesn't she?

I mean, she's going to deliver quite a bit of ongoing plot too, about, you know, running from the silence and the cracks and and it's like, she knows about the doctor, which I find quite interesting, you know, and also to like the silence, you know, in memory of the children lost to the silence.

They're trying to build this up.

I don't think it pays off as to what the science actually become.

How does she remember them?

Exactly.

And why are they killing all of her children?

But they're the silence.

And this is the silence. don't think so.

[16:32]

You're grasping at straws there.

Remember when I was talking about those face palming moments?

Yes.

Look, I really enjoy Helen McCrory and everything she I'd ever seen her and she's such a delightful actress.

And she has such depth to sort of the character she plays, I think.

I think here, the striking things about her are, firstly, that she genuinely doesn't think she's doing anything wrong.

And it's not, it's not the sort of, she's not a megalomaniacal villain or anything like that.

She's going to kill 100s of 1000s of people, but she doesn't think she's doing anything wrong.

And right at the end, she says, you know, one city for an entire species.

And, and that's not, like, obviously that's, that's morally wrong, but it's not crazily wrong.

She's differently moral.

Yeah, yeah, she's differently moral.

And so she doesn't think she's a villain and she doesn't really quite get why the doctor won't help her out.

[17:36]

Yeah.

But the other thing is, that she and the doctor are the same, that both of them are, in a sense, they're not quite the last of their species because she's got Francesco and she's got the husbands and all of that.

But they're both kind of people who fled from a planet that's been destroyed.

So they kind of understand one another.

And the way that's played is that they actually sort of circle one another and smile at one another all the time, and particularly her, you know, she's got this incredible smile.

And I think it works really well because it's an older woman and a younger man.

Like there's something super nice about it.

She also very specifically modelled her movements in her behaviour on like a predatory fish.

No, they're like, I mean, like, there's this whole thing where, like, she actually had, you know, how they, like, they were a piranha.

[18:37]

Yeah, yeah, but how they were always doing like cyberman training or sort of like movement training for, you know, this type of alien, that type of, I mean, they actually they worked with her to get her to move like a fish.

Did you know they actually contacted Rosalind de Winter?

I believe she could help.

She was unavailable.

Nathan, you're quite right.

Like, I think she's a really, she's, she's one of those villains that's not just out to destroy everything and take over everything.

It's a much smaller scale.

She's not out to destroy everybody.

She's not necessarily evil.

She's just trying to save her people.

And but she's also quite clever.

Like the whole Amy and Rory think they're going to trick her, right?

With the psychic paper and she plays them.

Yeah, yeah.

And you don't necessarily see that coming a lot of the time with Dr. Hubilans these days in the new series.

Like the psycho paper will work on lots of people, so she's cleverer than that.

And I really like that about the episode.

But I also like all the little things in this episode.

[19:38]

There's so many little bits of dialogue that are just so sweet, like, you know, Casanova liked Venice.

Yeah, you know, that's sort of like a reference to David Tennant.

That marvellous scene where the doctor is looking for the Calaveri girls.

And suddenly it's a jump start because they're behind him and he has to look around.

I think that's wonderful.

And then his whole William Hart and all library card.

Yes, yes.

Well, that little stuff just adds.

Do you remember that?

That was the 1st time that we saw Matt Smith in action.

He was on like Friday night with Jonathan Ross or something.

They used that clip.

Yeah, it was like it was the week before the 11th hour aired in in sort of March 2010. and the clip was released.

So we didn't see Jonathan Ross. obviously, but the clip was released.

And so it was the 1st time that we saw Matt Smith's doctor in action, and it is while the girls are there, and he's looking in the mirror, and he's pulling a face, like looking at his teeth and stuff.

It was a good little tie in with Casanova because one of the girls was actually in Casanova.

[20:40]

Oh, really?

Yeah.

Helen McCrory played Heath Ledger's Casanova's mother and the film...

But I mean, that's it. is a terrific scene for him, isn't it?

Because he's, we get that sort of weird physicality.

You know, whenever he sort of spins around and his hands are sort of weird and stuff like, so we get to see how odd he is.

We get to see how just sort of fun and enthusiastic he is.

And we get to see him sort of confront a villain and not be kind of frightened or anything, just being sort of terribly excited.

That's what I love about Matt.

He's such a, an unusual mover, I guess.

He's awkward.

Well, he looks awkward, but he pretty much dances across the screen.

Yeah.

When you think he's going to fall flat on his face, he doesn't.

Yeah.

I think I think it's that and his tendency to underplay a big moments, which are really great.

But the comedy is not just restricted to him.

I actually think that Arthur Darville has quite a lot of comedy in this.

[21:43]

Like, you know, when he's sitting on that the gunpowder.

He just shuffles off to one side.

It's very subtle.

It's, and, um, um, the sword fight.

Yeah, the sword fight.

I mean, he has to do physical stuff.

I find that a bit, let's just play Rory for a complete fool, but he does a really great job of it.

I love the fact that he is just so unconvincing and an imbecile in front of Rosanna trying to palm off his sister.

Like it's, I really find that scene really hilarious.

Just he does a deadpan delivery of lines that when he's not convinced that he's going to be convincing.

Do you know what I'm saying?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he doesn't quite, like, they're still speaking sort of modern day English and stuff in Venice in 15 and 80, but he's not doing the sort of period drama sort of speaking that he needs to be doing.

And so he's just speaking, sort of modern day English really awkwardly and stuff.

And then he just ends that speech with sort of really embarrassed cheers, you know, at the end of it.

Yeah, I think he's really great.

That scene ends with that fantastic moment where he leaves and Amy is there and we just see Francesco out of focus in the background.

[22:50]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. bearing his fish teeth.

And then I think the next scene is like having Isabella's father in Rory's stag shirt.

Yeah, yeah.

I love that.

So great.

In fact, what's really terrible is, um, you know, he's wearing that stupid shirt when his daughter fails to escape, um, from the Calvieri sort of household, and he's absolutely gutted, and so the actors having to play grief wearing the stupid, stupid shirt.

But I think it's really tragic that both his daughter and him die.

Like it's, we don't get a happy ending.

No, we never do, but I don't know, for me, it would have been part of me would have liked her to have been able to come out into the light and them to escape, but obviously he has to sacrifice himself to get rid of all the girls.

Yeah.

When I was rewatching it, I had forgotten that she died and I was gutted because you, you know, you feel for him.

[23:53]

You don't really know her.

Yeah.

But you feel for him and you're like, I just completely forgot.

I hadn't watched this for like 10 years and it's just horrible.

Like, is this one of the stories where practically it, not every, every guest artist dies.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think the harbour master or whatever the guy who, well, maybe he sort of vanishes in the final scene because we'll talk about that at the end.

I'm not quite sure what's going on there.

But basically everyone dies.

And it is kind of super thin in that you've got Isabella, you've got, um, Guido, you've got Francesco and you've got Rosanna.

You've basically only got 4 guest characters, which is 3 more than we'll get next week.

Fishwives.

And just sort of various fish people.

And they are they are all killed.

And I guess Isabella needs to be killed because we need to see what's going to happen when Rosanna kills herself the same way at the end of the episode.

And her death scene is great.

[24:55]

She's got this incredible voice.

She's been really kind of a damsel in distress for the whole episode, but when she gets to sort of proudly stand there and declare that she's Venetian, and she's got an excellent voice, she's so cool, and she really pulls it off.

I really like it a lot.

Remind me, do the, all the male fish people who eat their victims.

Do they survive?

No.

How do they die?

die out.

So all the male fish people just die out.

Yeah, because they've got nothing to eat.

Could they eat other people who go in the canal in the meantime?

Am I misremembering the end of the episode people?

Well, there's no females there anyway, so they can't breed anyhow.

So...

Yeah, die of old age.

Or starvation.

I mean, maybe they've already eaten all the other fish in the in the canals.

Yeah.

Yeah, maybe they just died out last year.

And so those fake pictures of porpoises in the canals in Venice or whatever weren't because of the pandemic at all, but were in fact, because all of the Calviri sons had died out.

[26:07]

They're basically the Humboldt Squid in the Gulf of Mexico.

So, so, yeah, I think I think the idea is that they die out, although I do like the idea that they maybe are deadly fish monsters in the canals in Venice for a little while after 15 years.

Yeah you don't go swimming in there.

There's also that scene where Rory confronts the doctor, as they're going into rescue Isabella, and he says that the doctor makes people dangerous to themselves because they want to impress him.

It's a very significant piece of dialogue from somebody who's only met the doctor briefly, don't you think?

Yeah, and I think I think it needs to be in a way.

[27:11]

Do you know what I mean?

Because you've got to quickly create a relationship for the doctor and Rory to have because we've got a we've got a relationship between Rory and Amy sort of.

We've definitely got a relationship between the doctor and Navy.

But now what's the relationship between the doctor and Rory like?

And I think what's really clear is it's a competitive relationship and it's that scene where, you know, they both pull out the the torches, like Rory's so proud that he's prepared and then the doctor pulls out a sort of massively much bigger and more effective torch.

But also all the way through to sort of like until sort of quite some way into the episode, Rory is a scold, you know, like he's desperate to be less fun and be more cautious than the doctor.

And so there's a kind of antagonism between them.

Yeah, I agree with you.

And I think it's, I think that's part of the problem I have with the episode, is that you've got to try and set up this relationship and dynamics so quickly because you've only had Rory back in episode one.

[28:18]

So here with the whole Amy as well, but you're trying to set up a separate kind of relationship with the doctor and where does he fit in and we don't want to do it the same as, say, Mickey back in season one.

And so I just feel that it's maybe a bit rushed or a bit forced and so the dialogue is much deeper and heavier than I would expect.

And it's sort of like, does he really have a problem with the doctor or is it really a reflection of his relationship with Amy and how insecure he actually is about her love for him?

I think also it's that it's a theme that Moffat will come back to, again and again, I mean, we talked about series 9 earlier, that whole series is about the doctor making people like him making people, like, risk their lives and and chase danger.

[29:18]

And I think that's that's something that the Moffat is actually really interested in.

It's a kind of the dark flip side of the idea that the doctor makes people better that the doctor inspires people to feats of bravery and stuff.

You know, the way that he inspires Kathika to find out what's going on and be a proper journalist in the long game or...

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so this is the same thing, but told from a sort of negative point of view.

I think Moffatt's doctor, however much we love Matt Smith, I think in some ways Moffatt's setting him up as a bad man and is setting Rory up as a good man.

And Amy has to make the choice between the 2 of them.

So we'll see you here next week.

But that's very definitely what's happening here.

And so initially Rory is less fun than the doctor, but he does come on board.

There is that wonderful moment where the 2 of them are sort of super excited about that.

Funnily enough, I was thinking about it and thinking of it being a parallel with the whole Mickey Dr. Rose thing.

[30:23]

Yeah.

But now that I think about it, it probably is, while it's sort of almost like they're harking back to that, it is totally opposite in terms of how it all ends up, whereas Rose chose the doctor.

Amy chooses Rory.

Yeah.

Yes, Karen, you will get that payoff at the end.

She will choose Rory over the doctor.

And...

But then she'll choose to have the doctor as well at the last minute.

And I think that that's, I'll go on about this all year.

But I think that that's sort of hugely great. that there's a thing going on in Amy's head that she's running away from adulthood, going back to childhood, uncertain of her relationship with Rory, and all of the stages of that and all of the things that happen to her and that she does throughout this year are kind of visible manifestations of that decision and it going sort of different ways.

And then what happens at the Andes that she says, no, both.

And I just think that's wonderful.

[31:24]

And it ends up in something pretty damn good after that.

It's very true Now that I've sort of complained a bit about how quick it's the doctor and Rory sort of relationship is developed, I do think I really love the fact that Rory is that perceptive and it actually helps his character a lot because he hasn't had many moments before that.

And I really like the way Arthur and Matt play off each other.

I think there's real chemistry between them.

And I would have liked to have seen more episodes with them and without Amy, you know, just to see, just to see that dynamic.

Maybe Amy should have been eaten by the crack at the end of episode nine.

Yeah, it's her story though.

But that's, I think, one of the great joys of this era. is that you've got these 3 attractive young people who all really, really like each other clearly and have great chemistry together, all travelling in the TARDIS together.

I think it works just so well.

[32:38]

I have a question, actually.

It was something we spoke about earlier, about the light on killing Francesca.

How does light kill him if he can go out in the sun anyway?

I mean, what's so special about him suddenly exploding into ashes?

I think it's a bit like the myth of vampires that you can still be in the shadows, but if you're in direct sunlight, then that's going to kill you.

So if you notice they're always inside or they're in shade, even when they're outside, they're undercover, they're not in the direct beams of the sunlight.

So that's the way...

Yeah, so that's the way in which I read it as.

But they can be in there perhaps for a little while, but the fact that that's a focussed beam, it obviously just takes milliseconds.

And maybe the sun of their planet doesn't have this.

They're underwater.

Maybe that's it.

Yeah, because they fish.

Yes, or maybe the sun on their planet doesn't have the same effect.

I think it's plot expediency.

[33:39]

Oh yeah.

Like we've got to have Amy kill himself.

Is it product experience here or is it we can only do this special effect 2 seconds.

It's a bit like a magnifying glass on an ant.

How do you think the fish come off?

Like the CG fish.

The girls, when they switch between them?

Oh, yeah, that's right.

We get to see the girls as well outside the window.

Oh, let me in, let me in, and then, of course, when Rosanna, her...

Perception filter?

Malfunctions?

Yeah.

I think my favourite line in the entire episode is, aren't we on the 2nd floor?

Is it 2nd floor, 1st floor?

Well, there's 2 lines about that.

So Guido's house, there's this sort of hilarious thing where I think the doctor says, gosh, the neighbours upstairs are noisy.

And then Guido says, this is the top floor.

And the doctor smiles and says, I knew you were going to say that.

He just sort of awkwardly goes, this, there is no one upstairs.

[34:40]

But it's really sort of genre aware.

Do you know what I mean?

Like Rory kind of knows what to expect when he goes into the TARDIS because he's been reading up on scientific theories or watching Star Trek or something and the doctor knows that Guido's going to say there's no floor above here.

And the doctor also guesses that Amy is going to offer to present herself as a candidate because of course she is because that's what has to happen at this point in the episode.

So I think Widhouse does do comedy and does do sort of genre stuff, and I do think that some of the humour is just kind of deliberately sort of lampshading, the stuff that needs...

Yeah, yeah, is a sort of obvious trove.

Yeah, but I think he does actually finds a very good balance because there's still moments where you kind of think what's going to happen like when Amy gets taken down to be put in the chair so her blood can be transfused.

And it's very effective.

And I think that Karen does great job of screaming and struggling and that, yes, James?

So when they were working on that scene, Helen McCrory wanted to, she was like, well, I think she, I think she should bite Amy at this point.

[35:49]

So they wrote it in.

That's so great.

I love Amy's line about Offsted.

I think that's really great.

You know, that she's from Offsted.

She's come to inspect the school.

Somehow, Rosanna must know what Offstead is because she's certainly very cross that Amy's making a joke at her expense.

She might just pick up that she's being made fun of.

She might not necessarily have to know, but there's no reason why she shouldn't.

She, oh, well, I suppose it is a bit early in history for Offsted.

The concept that Widhouse came up with for this slot was the doctor being trapped in a labyrinth that looked like a hotel.

Ah.

Well, that'd be ridiculous.

Thank God no one ever approved that.

But because there was a labyrinth in the previous two, like two-parter.

[36:49]

Ah, yeah.

It was also initially they were they were going to call it blood and water.

But then we had flesh and stone.

Straight after flesh and stone.

I think that would have been quite fun, but vampires of Venice is a great title.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I just think it's just terrifically solid.

You know, like it's got character work, whatever you think of it.

It's got some pretty good monsters.

It's got some just sort of fairly solid straightforward plotting, it looks really good.

And a great Gekkus cast.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's got the team, obviously, the 3 of these guys working well together.

It's got recycled prisoners 0 teeth from episode one.

Don't you think they look like the prisoner 0 teeth from the 1st episode of the season where...

Weren't they?

No, are they were CG in episode one?

and these aren't their practical because they have to be in more shots.

And the great thing too.

Like, I would have just excused the fact that we could see their teeth.

Do you know what I mean?

[37:50]

Like, who cares?

It's Doctor Who.

That's how these things work.

Their vampires and stuff.

But in fact, we actually managed in some very quick sort of expository dialogue, explain all of it.

You know, that we can see the teeth, despite the perception filter because our instincts for self-preservation make us see the teeth. fabulous.

Yeah, yeah, that's really good.

And the reason we can't see them in the mirror is because we, our brains kind of see it because the perception filter doesn't change their form.

It just changes our thoughts and it just interacts with the mirror in an odd way and we just put a blank space there.

Speaking of the teeth.

Alex Price had to ADR most of his dialogue.

Because he couldn't speak through them.

They're sort of fish teeth rather than vampire teeth.

Well, they're very similar to piranha teeth.

Yeah.

I think, like, one objection I've, I've heard is that fish are actually a bit less interesting than vampires.

[38:55]

And so it's sort of slightly disappointing.

Like, in stage decay.

The vampires are actual proper vampires and in fact, sort of somewhat more scarier and sort of mythical than vampires.

Here they're somewhat less mythical in that they're fish.

And partly, I think, I don't know how much Stephen Moffatt was involved in this, but Stephen Moffatt has said before that the word fish is inherently funny, and that he'll put it in dialogue all the time.

So Matt's looking for an escaped fish in the beast below and we have Jim the Fish next year.

And, you know, there's all those fish in a Christmas carol and stuff.

So he likes there to be fish just so that people can say the word fish in dialogue and it certainly sort of does work here.

But I kind of understand perhaps that it's a little bit less exciting than a vampire.

It works really well in Monty Python, the meaning of life.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Fishy, fishy, fishy.

[39:56]

No, it is a genuinely funny word.

How does this one end?

Is it a um...

Is it a voiceover?

No, well, sort of.

So they go back to the TARDIS.

And Amy does that sort of joke about my boys and stuff, which is sort of there to show that she's really learned nothing at all from this episode or something.

Yes, another moment where I can go, great.

So Rory's just one of the boys, not really her fiance.

Thank you, Amy.

Yeah.

And then you get that great speech from Rosanna.

Well, before that.

Overdubbed over the top.

Yeah, but before that, what happens is just there's dead silence.

So there's no atmosphere sound.

There's nothing like that, you know, I don't think you can even hear the water.

No, it just goes completely silent.

Yeah, and the doctor says, can you hear that?

[40:56]

And Rory says, I can't hear anything.

And he goes into the Tartars.

And then we hear Rosanna's speech from before.

And so it's introducing the silence for the 1st time and it's also saying something about the cracks.

And so the doctor only saw the crack for the 1st time.

Well, for the 2nd time, what, last week?

And so this kind of is starting to beef that up a little bit.

And so the cracks, like unlike in an RTD arc, you know, the cracks start to become a feature of the episodes, but the doctor is aware of them in some way.

As opposed to RTD, I think.

Yeah, yeah.

So no, I think it's significant.

And I think that's one thing about this episode with all of its light and humour and little things that we like about it, that it is moving the cracks and the silence into our minds and building this up at a crucial point in the season where we are halfway through, effectively this run.

[42:00]

Are we supposed to think that basically everywhere that the doctor and Amy appear this year, there's a crack somewhere and that it destroys the people that we've grown to love through like during that episode.

I don't think.

So it's eaten it's eaten Venice.

It's eaten Venice.

It's eaten Starship UK.

Is that what's happening?

It's eaten.

It's eaten Daisy Haggard.

It's eaten the vampires of Venice.

There you go.

They're all gone.

All the boys are gone.

Oh, maybe they disappeared into the crash.

Maybe they did.

Yeah, Sounds reasonable if it suddenly goes dead silent.

I think it's really ominous and I think that we just kind of never find out either way or whatever, but it does make for a good sort of final scene.

And then weirdly as well.

We go into the closing credits through the TARDIS keyhole for some reason for the 1st time.

[43:17]

Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week.

We'll be back next week to experience the horrible nightmare of ordinary family life in Amy's choice.

In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook, at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger and Jody and Tara.

Until next time, whenever you visit the Campanile di San Marco, please remember to keep your arms and legs completely inside the belfry at all times.

Thank you very much for listening and good night.

Good night.

See you soon Ta-ta.

That was Flight 3 Entirety, starring Todd Beelby, Nathan Bottomley, Karen Carpenter, and James Selwood.

Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

This episode, those face palming moments, was recorded on the 27th of February 2021 and released on the 18th of April.

In 2000, Helen McCrory wrote about her rollers Anna Karanina in that year's Channel 4 production.

[44:23]

How should a woman live her life, she said, survive to the age of 70 fearfully being as everyone else instructed to be, or play the heroine passionately, in the knowledge that trying and failing need not equal defeat?

What other percent is Toby Withouse right?

So school reunion?

The god complex.

And the under the lake before the flood too, partner.

And was there another?

I mean, he created being human.

Oh, I knew that.

I just wanted to know what ones he'd written.

I actually like all of those and especially like the under the lake before the flood 2 parter.

Yeah, no, I think he's got the chops have been actually a really good showrunner for Doctor Who, quite frankly, if we were doing 6 episodes a year based on his work on being human.

Yeah. 6 to 8 episodes.

Yeah.

No, like that would be really good.

It's funny, I think I was the last person still watching being human when it limped its way to the end.

[45:24]

I liked being human.

Did you?

Did you get it?

Yeah.

I enjoyed it.

I mean, even though you replace the entire cast.

Yeah, yeah.

I really like that final season cast.

Yeah, yeah, me too.

I mean, I love I love the original cast as well, but I really quite enjoyed what they did that season.

And that ending or anyway, let's not talk about that in case they have nobody.

Let's not talk about that in case the listener has not watched it.

When are we doing the being human podcast?

We're doing it sometime later in the year, probably.

How does this one end?

Is it a um, is it a voiceover?