Stop Watching a Kids’ Show

Hello, day listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety the only Doctor Who podcast. that has no problem at all with calling it Brian's Log. I'm Nathan. I'm James. I'm Peter. And I'm Adam. Well, Amy and Rory will be leaving us next week, but before they go, we get to spend a year living with them as they go to work have a barbeque, throw out some expired yoghurt, and deal with history's slowest alien invasion. Cue the chicken dance. It's the power of three. So, Adam, you have been on the podcast talking about Amy and Rory before. Yes. And how are you feeling about them generally now that they're nearing their end? You know what's weird is because I think I've ignored them for so long. Like I've kind of had them not in my life and not gone, like season 7 is my least favourite Doctor Who season with Matt Smith. And so going back, I was like, oh, I kind of missed you guys. I was like, I was enjoying them. I love Brian. Yeah. Like, you know, the dad is fun. Um, and it was kind of like, it was, it was sort of sweet, and knowing what happens in the next episode, you're like, like the 1st time you saw this, it was, I remember hating it. I was like, oh, this is terrible. Why am I being subjected to this? Why is Stephen Burkoff in it? Like he's amazing. He's got nothing to do. Little did I know a couple of episodes later. David Warner would be getting the same treatment. Like, let's get some famous people in and give them nothing to do put on a silly voice and stand in the corner. Pretend they like pop music. Like what? He's got one line and it's terrible. But yeah, so Stephen Berkoff like just going, yeah, yeah, I'm getting paid. I don't care. Yeah. I mean, we'll get to the Stephen Burkoff ending because I gather that there's a production story behind why it's so terrible and perfunctory. But I have to say that this is actually the kind of episode that I like because 16 minutes in, nothing has really happened except for the cubes and they're not very interesting, so they don't occupy much of our attention. And so we just get to hang out with the characters. And I'm thinking things like Boomtown or in the classic series things that Peter Grimway had writes. Like Mortred Undead and Planet of Fire. where there isn't a really propulsive plot and it is just us kind of hanging around with the characters. Like the 1st episode of Android Invasion, where you're like, 0 yeah, we're just going to hang out in a town. Yeah, we've just gone to this place. You know, whatever. But I actually like that and I kind of, I kind of think that 21st century Doctor Who has kind of missed a beat doing that. It doesn't have to be a giant alien adventure each time. It can be about the characters. especially when you've got characters who they've spent a lot of time giving backstories. Yeah. And then you don't have enough time to actually investigate them. Yeah. And although they, you know, like much of the Moffat era, they're given a backstory in a sentence. It's like, I don't remember them living in this house in this particular, Oh, there's a sentence saying that's why they don't live in that village anymore. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We've rebooted their lives so many times. You know, they don't have a coherent plot. That entire village went the way of the duck pond. But yeah, I kind of liked seeing it felt like the most Russell T Davis episode of the Moffat era. Like it's, you know, very kitchen sink. It's very soap opera, like there's just, there's lots of weird guest stars on television, like Brian Cox and Alan Sugar. Yeah, yeah. What is going on here? Like, I feel like I'm watching Doomsday again. Yeah, yeah. And actually, Adam, both you and Nathan have put your finger on why I really quite like this episode because you do just sort of spend time with Amy and Rory and you need that time at the start of the episode because we are nostalgic about them. They've been in the series for a long time. So like them or not particularly like them. They're old friends. And so you just want to spend some time with them a bit like the doctor. You know, you're like coming back to them like the doctor does. And I think, Nathan, you like it because you're nostalgic for the Russell T. Davies era, and this evokes that quite well. I mean, I love this crew. Like, I really like Amy Rory and Matt Smith's doctor together. Matt Smith is amazing. Yeah, like even in terrible, terrible episodes. He's amazing. Yeah. Like, he's really compelling and exciting and it's like I just want to watch him just go to the shops. That little sequence where he does the lawns and that kind of, I mean, that would not be as entertaining with any other doctor. How long have I been at that? About an hour. Yeah, it's so funny, is it? playing with the football, which we, you know, because you know outside of the show, he was almost a professional footballer. So it's like, oh, this is fun. This is like he's getting to do his thing. Yeah. You know, like just like David Tennant gets to do the acting. Is that his? I'm kidding. I like him. I always thought it was because he was trying to keep his teeth in his head. It's just he's such a ball of energy and this episode's a bit of a ball of energy. It suits his doctor. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And because he's frustrated? Like, because you get those moments of him, like, you got, you're like, oh, this is why you can't sit still. This is why you're always running. Like, it's like as a character piece for the for the character of the doctor. It's like, oh, you really can't rest. Like, you're not, you're not like John Pertwee's doctor who is happy with a bottle of red wine sitting in a mansion for 4 days. Yeah, waiting for someone to turn up. Touch sardonic, but not cynical. So what we have here, too, is a new character. He's only been in dinosaurs on a spaceship, and that's Mark Williams's Brian Williams, which is kind of delightful. And he is really, really properly gray, I think. Oh, so fun. And he has a tendency to bear ham. in other things. So I was really... We've all seen Harry Potter. We've all seen Harry Potter. Yeah, yeah. And the fast show. Like there's, you know, when you're playing 42 different characters a week, like you can go a bit crazy with some of them and not know when to pull it back, but he's really restrained in this. I think the direction's quite good. Which I'm surprised by. I'm surprised that you're surprised. I know, because it's Douglas McKinnon I normally hate. Yeah, yeah, you put the boot into him on the... Hate it, but I was like, oh, this is actually, I feel like he's maybe because it's so kitchen sink. Yeah, yeah. And he's not having like, because the space pits are a bit... Yeah. McKinnon gets better as he goes along with Doctor Who. Like he doesn't quite get it at the beginning. Yeah. But by the time you get to say husbands of River's song. Yeah Like he's actually quite proficient. You're saying it's the Ron Jones effect. I mean, he does quite a few Capaldi ones. He's going to be with us for a while. He does listen, doesn't he? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he does. But yeah, like I think it's, yeah, maybe he's just, maybe it's that, oh, okay, I can get a handle on this. It's mostly in houses and hospitals. I don't know if he's done a bunch of casualties. everyone has. Everyone has. But yeah, it's like, you know, and it's just when it gets to outer space, it's like, ah, you know, a bit lost here. And I've got Stephen Berkoff, who's probably terrified of realistically. I think he'd worked with him before. Right. Hadn't he? That sits my mind. I might be wrong on that But it's interesting what you say, it's all set in houses and hospitals because so is the 11th hour. So this is quite a nice bookending. Yeah, Amy and Rory. Yeah. No, it's interesting. Brian Williams, I think Mark Williams brings so much to that character because truth be told, I think the character is a little bit thin. I don't think there's much there on the page, but he just, he inhabits the character so well. And that scene where he's set to work watching the cube is so charming just because of his performance. So cute, writing it all down. And that's like, that is proper metafiction. Like that is a Doctor Who fan, watching every episode, writing down everything that happened. Yeah, yeah. I had a friend when I was in primary school who used to write down the cliffhanger, how long it went for. He would draw a little picture for the cliffhanger, like all the details. Noting down the tint on the title sequence with the bluer or browner. What is it this week? You know, we've not talked about the series 7A title sequence and I really hate it. That's fine. I've made a version of it for every week of the Monica. So bad. This is the one with the little, like the cubes in the doctor. Yeah, this is one of the good ones. Those cumes actually... They kind of work. And they don't like... Yeah, the stalic one works. Yeah, but the black on red in this title sequence, I actually think works quite well. Unlike the rest of. Yeah, well, I think what they've done is they've grown weary of the terrible tidal sequence they had for series 5 and 6 and they have no money to do a new one at the moment. I have no money to do the series 5. Isn't there a story about that? We can't talk about that. Okay. I want to hear this story. They didn't have any money for series 5 title sequence. Okay. But, you know, like basically what they've done is put a sort of filter over it in Adobe After Effects or something and just made it look worse. I think it's quite a nice idea, but it doesn't work practically. If it had been done well. But how do you do it well? It's the story of dog two. It would be great if it was done well. Occasionally it's brilliant, even though it's not done well. But I think timeline should have been great if it had been done well. Wow, just watch the season 22 box there. Time lash actually is great, just so you know. Look, I love when Doctor Who is cheap because you kind of go, well you have to lean on performances. You have to lean on, you know, doing everything small. And I think this one gets away with it in that you go, oh, let's do it all in a kitchen and we'll do it all at the hospital. And they're the fun scenes. Like, I find the bits where they, you know, the bit where Amy almost gets married to... King Henry the 8th. I'm like, is this like a 1st draft for David Tennant, Mary? Elizabeth? Like, what is this? Like, there's so many things in this episode that I'm like, I feel like this has all been strip mined a bit later on by Moffat. Well, I really like the idea, though, that, um, And again, we do see it later, don't we, particularly in that terrible Gareth Roberts episode, the caretaker, where, in the classic series, we just kind of assumed that we got to see all of the doctor's adventures and that the doctor's life was essentially what was appearing on screen. And one of the things that Moffat does is separate those 2 things. So he's 1,200 years old at this point. And we have specifically, so he can sell his characters to be finished. I don't think that's the reason. No, no, he said it in interviews and confidential. Yeah, rule one, Moffat Line. So he's interested in narrative. And so what we have here is like a whole set of adventures, like 7 weeks that happen in no time at all that we get to see 2 tiny excerpts of, both of which are played for comedy. I really like the scene where they're outside in the snow, and Matt is inexplicably doing something with like a cabbage, and I like, and half of the Savoy staff turn out to have been zygons or something. And you kind of think, wow, that's our 1st zigons adventure in the new series, and we never see it. Again, strip mind. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's really, like, that's really kind of fun and propulsive and stuff, but it's almost like, uh, what's happened over the course of this season is that the doctor, even though we see the doctor, Amy and Rory every week, it's made clear to us that there are months and months between these episodes. Oh, they say it's been 10, they think it's been 10 years. Overall, since Ledworth. So 10 years since the 11th hour in their lives. And there's something about that that I really, really like. Remember that series 5, and I've said this 100s of times, was all about Amy avoiding adulthood by running off with her imaginary friend as a child. And now we see adulthood. Like as arrived, and there's even a moment, a wonderful acting moment from Matt, where Amy is talking to the doctor about real life, and the doctor looks at her and says, look at you all grown up, and he's sad about it. Like you, you get that you never want to do that thing about growing up, that the doctor says, and he's sort of sad and disappointed, and it's also earned. He's known this character since she was sort of, yeah, tan or whatever. And you can believe that. Yeah. But it's also a statement about the series and about companions. The doctor always has young companions because he's childlike. And so even though he's 1250 years old or whatever it is. He surrounds himself with young people because they have that Ishwa de Viv, and the series never really, apart from the return of Sarah Jane in the Sarah Jane adventures, which does it really well. The series never really looks at what happens to companions once they get beyond that childlike stage when they're in the series. I mean, there is something nice. This season starts with Amy and Rory aren't travelling with a doctor anymore and haven't been since the God Complex and they're just at home and it's been like, is it 2 years or something? There's a considerable amount of time that's passed between them seeing the doctor presumably at the end of Dr. Widow and the wardrobe and them seeing him in asylum of the Daleks. And, you know, last week, we get that it's been months again. So it's been long periods of time where the doctor just hasn't been there. Like he's weaning them off. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and in fact, he is a bit reluctant about it. There is that beautiful scene, I think, with Matt and Karen. Gorgeous. It's so good, isn't it? Where she says that she feels like travelling with a doctor is now like running away from her responsibilities. And we've seen that her relationships have suffered and, you know she's there for that young woman's wedding. You know, she gets asked to be a bridesmaid, but that woman says to her, you just haven't turned up to things. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Rory as well at work with that handsome other nurse, you know. Do you want a full-time job? I'll give you a full-time job. But she, she says that she feels like she's running away from kind of proper life from adulthood. And then the doctor reacts really badly to that and he says, no I'm not running away. There are fantastic things to be seen. And I really I like that. And then he says, no, I'm actually running to something. I know that you're not going to be here for much longer and I want to make sure that I keep seeing you. Do you think this is trying to tell hardcore fans of our age, just grow up and stop watching a kids show? Yeah, I wondered about that too. for kids. are you doing? Well just leave us. We're trying to make a TV show and you're making it really difficult for us. Crazy old man. You can say it worked. They're right. We mean you, Ian Levine. That has to be cut out. I have to say, I think this episode is a little bit about that. It's about the way that viewers and fans engage with Doctor Who because seeing it through Amy and Rory's eyes. They're just going about their everyday business. And when they hear the TARDIS, It's like everything looks up and adventure comes into their life and it's beautiful. And when we were growing up, Doctor Who was so important to us, but it wouldn't be on all the time. Or you'd come home and you'd be waiting for 6.30 PM, which is when it was shown in Australia to come around and you were just waiting for that sound of the Tartar so it could transport you. So there's just, there's something beautiful. I don't know if it's meant to be, but this episode is kind of about journeying with the doctor, whether that be in the fiction or as a viewer. Yeah, it's, uh, but my only problem with any of this Amy and Rory stuff is that, like, cause we're at this point in their journey and the last time I did a recording with you guys, her baby had been stole. And I'm like, this is a goon baby. Le Quoi? Her baby is you. Goopy goo, baby. Like, it's like, it's a psychic scar on their relationship between the 3 of them that never gets dealt with. It's never kind of, I don't feel satisfied in the way that that is dealt with. Yeah, I think the show isn't capable of dealing with it. I just think this silly show can't deal with that properly. Why bring Why do it? Yeah, exactly. was a miscalculation. And he does try and fix it, so he has Amy Kill, Madame Cavarian which is pretty damn great. He has their relationship breakup over it in Asylum of the Daleks. So there are repercussions, but it's what we said in that episode. Why doesn't she just punch the doctor in the face and never speak to him again after that happens. Adopt. You always wanted children. Well, adopt. Yeah, yeah. But isn't series 7, and in particular, series 7, 8 drawing a line under series 6 and going, we tried that. It didn't really work for a number of reasons. We're just going to go back to having fun adventures of the week. Yeah. And it is serialised, though, because it does have this changing relationship between Amy, Rory and the doctor. And I kind of like that. I think Moffatt's at his best where the arc isn't really about space things, but it's about the relationships between the characters. And I think he does that in 8 and I think he does it in 9 as well. And I think they're more successful perhaps than six. And I still like the arc in series 6, I have to say. despite the goo baby. The gooby. Any arc, which is river song. Any arc that's not to do with the characters is a space reasons arc. Yeah, yeah, yeah, much like the ark. Now with added racism. So that beautifully shot scene where the doctor and Amy are framed against the London skyline is, I think, the linchpin scene of the episode, and it's just, it's so beautifully written, and it's performed with such warmth. I mean, you can tell that Karen Gillan and Matt Smith really like each other. whatever you're watching, whichever episode you're in. But here it really shines through. And, I mean, I'm not going to disc chibnal for this, even though that is favourite pastime. But I think that that scene must have been written by Stephen Moffat, because it is such a perfect encapsulation of what he wanted to say with this episode and series 7A. And he actually refers back to that dialogue, doesn't he? Where he says you were the 1st face that this face saw. He says that just before he regenerates, which is like a key moment in the series. And it just it works for me. The rest of the episode is enjoyable and has, you know, things to recommend it, but that scene, I think, is fantastic. You could almost say it's actually the linchpin of the entire Matt Smith era up to that point. Like, it encapsulates not just what he wanted to do with that season, but it encapsulates those 2 characters together. I think the other really standout scene is the one between Brian and the doctor where Brian comes up to him and asks what happened to the other people who travel with you. It's so good. And the way Matt delivers it, because it's kind of funny because you know, Matt's a young man and Brian's middle-aged. But Matt seems older than him in that scene. And the way that he delivers the line, it's like some of them, not very many of them died. And he's hesitant and he's aware of how that's going to be taken by Brian. That's a scene, I think, must have been written by Chim Nor because Moffat always dips out on those scenes. Always tries to throw in a gag. Like tries to, like the doctor would say something hilarious and fun and would never kind of sit in one of those moments kind of thing. Like, and I also feel like Brian, looking back now, is absolutely what Chibnall had in mind when he was writing Graham. Yeah, yeah. You're right. Like, he's feeling right. Oh, that character was so much fun with the doctor, like this older person who is confused by things, but, you know, needs to be around for gravitas and to kind of ground a younger energetic doctor and it's like, oh, those scenes work so well in those 2 episodes I wrote back in season seven. Let's get let's get Bradley Walsh. Let's do it You know, it's even more heartbreaking about that is that Brian is the one that tells them to go with him. episode. He knows that they might die. He says, enjoy your adventures and then next week. Yeah, we'll talk about next week, next week, but spoiler alert. I won't. I'm really cross. You know, Brian has just spent the better part of a week staring at some boxes. No, which again? is the viewer experience. Exactly what we're doing. So, you know, when he says go on the adventures, it's like, yeah look, I get it. fun. It's terrifying and dangerous, but you should do it because it's more fun than me sitting here making notes on what I'm looking at. I like to think that in the 1st draft of the script, Brian went up to the doctor and said, you know, what happened to your previous companions, he just listed it, you know, married Troilus, got pushed out of an airlock, went off into the country. Went to rule some space races. Married Brian, blessed. Or died with a brain in her head. I'm not sure. Went off with Tony Selby. At Ice Plan. Which is it's a dodo that in the missing adventures gets given syphilis. No, it's a space sex virus. A space syphilis. Space syphilis. Spacefulness. Is that what happened to her accent? Because you know, you can go crazy from syphilis? You know, I think the doctor tells her to stop doing it in the ark and so she does. Well, if you stop doing it, you won't get space syphilis. So, let's talk cubes. What do we think of the cubes? Look, you know, as a device for people to be confused about their fun. you know, it's like the ghosts in doomsday, they're a fun excuse to get celebrities in to point at stuff. Like it is a very, it feels like a very Russell T. Davis device. Like, you know, let's just pepper the world with cubes. Yeah, yeah. We even get the, like, shots of, of, you know, famous landmarks with cubes scattered around the front lot. Cubes being used to hold down napkins and forks and spoons, like just, like everyday cubes. Yeah, it's really, I think it's fun. And I also think that scene where Kate takes them through the unit headquarters under the Tower of London and we see all of the different cubes doing different stupid things. That's the one that like makes people sad. I know, this person's stuck in a room crying. I know. What are you doing? If you ever wondered whether Kate was seriously, uh, on one hand ruthless person running a COVID organisation, it's like, yeah, yeah I made one of my stuff sit there and cry for a full day. It's like, there's not an inch between her and Yvonne Hartman. Can I just say that I think she's terrible? You absolutely can say that. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. She's phoning it in. Oh, she's, yeah, have you listened to her audio? No. Like, yeah. She's literally playing. I mean, I have to say, I think it's the Brian Williams problem. I think that the idea of the character is fine, but there's it's thin. There's not much to the character and, you know, I don't think there's a whole lot to the performance either. No. But that's, I guess that's kind of what you want from, you know you hire her because it's like I want someone who's patrician and kind of austere and then I'm not going to actually give them that kind of dialogue. So you're just like left with Gemma Redgrave just going, well, I guess this is the character. Yeah. Like, this is what I've got to work with. I mean, I think she's likeable. it feels like it needed a bigger performance. It feels like it needed someone like Mark Williams to come in and inhabit the character. Yes. I think that's why next season you write Osgood in... to give her the driving plot elements and you just have Gemma Redgrave wandering around in the background. Yeah. kind of wondering what the script's about. 21st century Doctor Who cannot get unit. Right. Now, it just cannot recapture that fun and that warmth of the 1970s because it's not trying to do that. The 1970s year note was the brigadier helped by Captain Yates Sergeant Benton, and Corporal Bell, getting attacked by blob monsters, you know, in a corner of the laboratory. Whereas they try to make it a 21st century organisation. And it doesn't work because of that. It just turns out to be soldiers running around. And so it was the same problem that we had, if you remember, our podcast on Santaran strategym, where you get that replacement brigadier character and his sidekick and they make 0 impression. Yeah. I mean, quite dull. except on each other's lips. Oh, the kiss at the end, you. You know, like they bring her back as recently as flux, for God's sake, to, for some reason. Well, like you've had something to do. She had to go into the tunnels with everyone else. obsessed with those tunnels. Like, that is a spinoff. want to write. Williamson in his tunnels with Kate. No, phone big finish. Some other people and they just go into tunnels and have adventures and then pop back out again. That sounds like a fast way to the space syphilis. Yeah, I've got space syphilis in my tunnel. Sure you can get a pill for that. Or an injection. Yeah, probably now, but not back then because it's set in Victorian area. Oh, yeah, you've got to get stracks and men, men, ambassador Jenny. They're all going in the tunnel. I think the cubes look brilliant. Yeah. There's something very Apple about them and the fact that we call them devices. She she compares them to iPads falling from the sky. So there is that it's sort of explicitly there, I think. When was the iPad introduced? Was it around that time? Yeah, no, it must be. It must be a reasonably new thing, I think at that point. Yeah, I think it is a very Russell T. Davis thing, but I do think that what isn't very Russell T. Davis is what they're here to do. Oh, yeah. Which I still don't understand. Well... So they're here to give everyone a heart attack. I mean, it's so yucky. And it's like, there's a line of dialogue from Kate saying it's a 3rd of the population seems to have been affected by this. And we get lots of sort of scenes, CCTV scenes of people kind of rolling around on the floor, having heart attacks, which you. And then it's all better and obviously there's no consequences. They defibrillate the entire population. Because that's such a precise thing. That reminds me of Christmas invasion. Yeah, but Christmas invasion's fun. I think it is like the Christmas invasion, but remember what happens in the Christmas invasion, is that everyone goes up and stands on the corner of a roof, and that's weird. It's something you would never have thought of. It's a bit fantastic. It leads to sort of interesting visual. It's the Tower of London. Yeah, yeah. But this is like heart attacks? That's miserable, you know, and that's a chibnal thing. That's right And what it reminded me of, actually, James was partners in crime, where it's funny because you get, you know, a 3rd of the world's population collapsing as their fat detaches. Yeah, you know, that's sort of, it's got a thing to it. Whereas heart attacks are a bit icky. Yeah, well, I think that's the difference between this and Christmas invasion as well because there is that very specific line that Russell gives the doctor about, you know, you can't compel someone to commit suicide off the roof. Like he makes it very clear that it was a feint. Yes, you might be scary people by doing this, but you were never going to actually kill them all. whereas this is killing them all. Yeah. Like, those dogs. Yeah, like the dogs. I also think like, you know, from flux where all the dogs die. All the dogs die. I mean, that is a very, look, that is a very chibnal thing. writing is deceptively silly and fun, but it's really bleak. Like all of the Silurians get killed in dinosaurs on a spaceship. It's a fun romp and it's great. And then you get to the end, it's like, oh, there's been a genocide. Yeah, for profit. It's very Eric Seyward. Well, yeah. No, I think about the timeless children or whatever that rich. I try not to. And like there's 7 human beings left. You know, like there is always a kind of like a horrible bleakness. And, you know, there's a bleakness in Russell's writing that hides under the surface. But he's kind of like personal apocalypse. Yeah. Whereas gyminal rights actual apocalypse. Yeah, so it goes beyond bleakness to kind of nihilism. Yeah, it's nasty. Russell kind of keeps his bleakness under control most of the time unless he's, you know, hitting a deadline or something like that. He tortures individuals. Whereas Chibnall seems to just wipe out entire races. Yeah. Like, he wipes out, like, all of the Daleks in the Cybermen and the Sotaris. Oh, well. And what's he got against the following week? What's he got against reptiles? He kills all the dinosaurs before they kills all the silurian. Killing everyone. Yeah. I think that that is a bit miserable. And there is a problem with Stephen Berkoff that actually ruins the ending a bit. I mean, it's not very clear what happened because people sort of talk around it, but it seems that he wouldn't deliver the character as it was written and so actually didn't deliver some lines or there were disagreements or something. They just couldn't get the performance out of him that they needed. And so they ended up basically cutting and running and going, okay we'll just use what we've got. And so they brought in either chibnal or Moffat to physically rewrite the climax of the episode to use the footage that they had of him, which is why suddenly he becomes a hologram. Yeah, so he's a hologram that blips in and out. You've got Matt Smith given the task of a big speech explaining what the hell is going on. You get the tally, which seems to make no sense. And another cheap no thing is trying to make things interesting by making them time Lord things. So the Shakri or whatever they're called are Time Lord monsters and stuff. Oh yeah, he thought they were a myth from his childhood. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you know, the frog has to be from Time Lord mythology as well and it takes you away or whatever. plus the entirety of Jody's era. This is this is someone who grew up on 80s doctor. Yeah, yeah. And that was like from about 1980 onwards, like the time lords got mentioned in every single story. Like, I was sick of it and I was 10. Yeah. So yeah, I think that's just someone who's grown up thinking that that means the stakes are really high. And it's like, well, it doesn't have to. Like the stakes can be low. It can, which for most of this episode they are, and it's really enjoyable, and it's when the stakes get ramped up that it's like and I've stopped caring. Yeah. But also it's just like an easy path to universe building. You know, everyone knows each other. This is not a random monster. It's time, Lord Monster. et cetera. But it is a mess. Like, I think it is a problem. The moment a normal Doctor Who episode kicks in, it all goes to hell. Like, I still don't know what those cube-faced people are... what's happening there? twins. Yeah. Yeah. Why are they kidnapping people? Yeah, yeah. They're white. Did they get... Like, I saw that they got Brian out. But the other people, did they get out of the space? I don't know. Or they just blow up? yeah but we don't care. At that moment. But at that moment, it's kind of like the production crew are all just trying to stay alive until we get, what, 41 minutes out of the episode. short episode because the climax has been so horribly butchered, I think. But fortunately, the important parts of the episode aren't that at all. Like that's dumb and disposable and we end really well, I think. I mean, I think there is kind of a poetic justice in the fact that Chris Chipner went on television to criticise Pip and Jane Baker in the 1980s. How dare he? And guess what? They had to come in at the last minute and rewrite a climax to a story using locations they already had, et cetera, et cetera. Now it's your turn. they did it better. No, yeah. I mean, it is a problem. This would be a much better episode if it felt like it had an organic ending to it, as opposed to just kind of, you know, like Nathan said, the space things kick in, and then it just kind of flops. But it's not what the episode is about. The episode's about Amy and Rory, and that doesn't impact on that I think. And I think that happens a lot in Chibnell's era. Like, you know, Rose is an amazing episode where the space racist has is there for plot expediency and then you go, why was he there? Yeah. And what was he doing? And you just go like, oh, he was just there to drive all these great scenes that you've come up with. And I think the same thing with this. It's like we've got all these great scenes that are going to be driven by these weird boxes and then we have to have some space business at the end to finish it and we'll get around to that. Yeah. It is kind of a nice idea. It offers you good visuals with the cubes and a lot of fun scenes like Nathan was saying earlier with kind of the cubes just doing different things. It carries you along. And I think the idea of the slow invasion is a nice one because that is human nature. People just get used to things, you know, bit by bit. And I mean, I think they should have called it the slow invasion except I've seen the slow invasion. That was the invasion of time. So I'll go with the power of three. I also, like, I know you mentioned it in the intro, but the chicken dance. The cube that's playing the chicken dance. I'm like that is insidious. evil. on a loop. on a loop. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They have it in a soundproof booth. to protect everyone from. But, you know, like, because there's been no kind of mention of the motivation of these cubes, but when you hear that one, like, I feel like the doctor should have been like, oh, no, they're evil and they need to be stopped. It is really well shot, that last scene and the last shot. And there's something heartwarming about it, just watching Amy and Rory go off on their adventures with the doctor. And I believe it was the last thing that Karen Gillen and Arthur Darville shot for the series. Oh, wow. Wow, this is the actual final scene. That's right. And so it was the end of the day. Obviously, Power of 3 was shot after Angels take Manhattan. And so they just set it up so that they had those nice shots, no lines where they look mistily towards the camera, i.e. Brian, and then head off into the TARDIS and close the door. And there's something beautiful about that. It's just a nice synchronicity between real life and the fiction of the show. Yeah, it's really sweet. I mean, it's sad that, um, you know, Karen Gillen has had an amazing career in Hollywood because I feel like I would love her big finish story. Like Amy has like, you know, is one of the untapped characters. Like there's heaps of stuff being done with all the Russell T Davis characters, but I feel like the Moffatt characters other than, say, River song. Oh, or Arthur Darville as the loaner. Yeah, he's got his own his own one. But yeah, I feel like she would be like so much fun. But, you know, she's a busy girl. I'd love to see her and Bill Potts team up. Oh man. again, another one. Where's where's my Bill Potts being serious? Yeah, so great. Well, listen, that's all we have time for this week. We'll be back next week for an upsetting final goodbye in the Angels Takeman happening. In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook at FTE podcast on Twitter and on our website, Flightthrough Entirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts Bondfinger, Jody Interterterra, maximum power, and Untitled Star Trek project. Adam, where can people find you? Adam Richard has a theory where I talk about Doctor Who every day of the week. I'm an insane person. And also I read Mariah Carey's memoir. The meaning of Mariah Carey in my podcast, Me. I am a memoir, the meaning of the meaning of Mariah Carey. Brilliant. Well, until next time, remember, don't mock the log. Thank you very much for listening and good night. Good night. Good night. See you. That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffiths, Adam Richard, and James Selwood. Theme arrangement by Cameron Lan. This episode, Stop Watching a Kids show, was recorded on the 20th of March 2022 and released on the 1st of May. By this time next week, a new Star Trek series will have ended the world. So to celebrate that momentous event, why not join me and Joe Ford at Untitled Star Trek Project? For 6 months of weekly episodes about nearly every Star Trek series? That's untitled Star Trek Project.com or wherever good podcasts can be found. And I know like Capaldi's apparently got a thing where he won't. No, he won't come back while Jody's there. Oh, that's a, that's like he was like, I don't want to come back while the very next one is there. Did you mean the big finish or did the show? I'm not coming back while Judy's done. No, it's like, you know, it's her time to be the doctor and I don't want to, you know, be running around saying I'm the doctor like 3 weeks after I finish being the doctor. Makes sense. He's a fan. Yeah, because he's a fan. Because he knows, you know, he will do it. He will do it at some point. because he's a fan. He's also been quite busy. Yeah, yeah. I mean, he's also now a big Hollywood star. What's going on? When did Doctor Who turn people into famous stuff? Yeah, I know it used to ruin their careers. I liked it back then. One of my favourite French and Saunders sketches is where... Like Tilly, who will be familiar to people. Oh, Doctor Who. Helen Mirren. The master class. Is that the episode with the there's nothing as stale as that woman's infinite variety? My favourite line from that, which I have said before in real life and feel terrible about it, is when do I have to stop apologising for being famous? I mean, I am angry at the old series that it denied us Sarah Sutton's Hollywood career. that's true. No one was coming back from terminus, though, were they? did a very slow strip tease in that episode. Of all of the... The year of the slow strict teas. Of all of the lead cast from this version of the show, the one that's had the least successful career in recent years is Matt. He did the crown. Yeah, he did Terminator Genesis and got completely kind of out. You see this Morbius thing that sounded good, yeah. He was holidaying in television. Like, I mean, Darville got a lead role. Well, before they got rid of it. Well, they did. Yeah, he got he got a lead role as Doctor Who. He was, but he wasn't fake pretty enough to lead a, yeah, a CW show. I think we're done. Yeah, we're talking about your team. I think no, no. unless anyone's got any sort of thing urgent. Don't forget the outro. You did the outro. See, I don't know how to end it now. We just never stop talking. Oh, Jesus Christ, I have literally done that. I'm going to press stop. I'm going to piss off.