Holden Astra

[00:00]

From the team that brought you, 8 episodes of Season 15, including Underworld.

On the writers who wrote out Sarah Jane Smith in such style, from the creators of Omega, and the best writers of the brigadier ever comes, the Armageddon factor, the conclusion to the key to time.

What could possibly go wrong with that?

Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast who knows the secret of the Grads.

[01:05]

I'm Brendan.

I'm Nathan.

And I'm Bob Baker and Dave Martin's greatest fan.

Not.

It's time to finish the key to time on the planet of Atreos.

Oh, and also the planet of Zeops.

Oh, and also the planet of evil, which is oddly shaped like a bunch of eggs stuck to a ball.

It's the Armageddon factor.

Philip Xander points out that, obviously, if you have a giant complex season long arc that's got to pay off at the end of the year in a really spectacular way to justify everything that's come before it, you turn to Bob Baker and Dave Martin and get them to ride it.

What have I done to deserve this?

This is mine.

But yes, Nathan and Philip.

What in Blaze as well?

Anthony Reid and Graham Williams thinking.

I just think they don't think they're banned.

Do you know what I mean?

Why do they keep coming back to them?

They do a reliably crap job every time they're employed.

[02:09]

As I have said before, and I would say it again, they managed to write probably 2 decent episodes of Doctor Who, every season that they write.

And now they've been given 6 episodes this year.

Six episodes at the end of a season when there is no budget.

We have no location filming at all.

Last year, they delivered 8 tantalising episodes that were all what, indoors, and didn't they turn out spectacularly?

I actually don't think they managed their 2 episodes this season, I actually think they're coming under that.

It might be half a good episode in here, maybe.

You've gotta find it.

Like, I'm not saying, like, it's 2 episodes of the whole episode.

It's like 5 minutes in episode one maybe.

Yeah, that is correct.

That is these people deliver underworld.

They delivered the invisible enemy.

The realistic scenarios of the hand of fear, right?

They did the most wonderful job with the brigadies character in the 3 doctors.

Check.

What, what, what are they thinking?

[03:09]

Anthony, I saw the um, Dr. Anthony redid an underworld.

And he was going about all this wonderful script that was just, you know, in the drawer, ready to go.

No, it's in the drawer at the bottom of the drawer for a reason.

In fact, this is this does all of the things that they do badly.

So one of the things that they do badly.

And even in their 1st story, which was claws of axos, which I think is pretty good, you know, is all the characters are suddenly giant blustering caricatures, like the brigadier ends up being in the 3 doctors.

And so you get Astra, who's a noble princess and you get Marak, who's like incredibly wet, and you get comedy posh guy, Shap, and you get the marshal.

And, you know, like none of them are any more than one note.

They're all just terribly boring.

And then you get, you know, they're throwing a whole heap of ideas against the wall, playing with them for 10 minutes and then abandoning them.

[04:10]

You get something about television, something about the way oratory is used to justify war.

You get the military stalemate, you get a, you get a computer general, you get Drax, you get shrinking, you get hallucinations, you know, you get a time loop that stretches, you get mind control devices, all of these things.

And they're all in support of a plot where people just run around from place to place going through that wretched transmat thing over a gang.

Oh, we're jumping ahead, but Nathan, 0 my goodness.

Like you've come up with, that's a wonderful list because all I thought is that they went in and they pitched at me.

They said, well, we've got this wonderful idea, you know, to sum up the key to time.

We've got these 2 warring planets, and we're going to have the Black Guardians agent just sit there for 1000s and 1000s of years, not doing anything and waiting for the doctor to collect all the other pieces, and then he'll just come in and just go, the key to time is mine.

Mine, mine, End of cliphanger.

Well, look at...

Can we start the beginning?

[05:10]

That's start the beginning.

I had not seen this for a long time not this time round.

A few years ago, I actually bought the American box head.

And then it started, and there's this soap opera thing going on.

Young men are dying for, it says the woman.

I'll bet they are, ducky.

Yeah, I know how they feel.

Isn't she wearing something out of the invisible enemy?

Yeah, I think she's wearing one of the bio nurses outfits.

I'm going, what is this?

What is this?

The party would have been more entertaining than this 6 episode that we ended up?

watching this soap opera?

Well, in the disconsinuity guide, Cornell Day and topping suggests that would have been a, you know, like a terribly effective satire, had the rest of the production not also been just sort of incredibly poorly acted and sort of cheap looking and dreadful.

So, yeah, it does fall a little bit flat.

I mean, there is, you know, there's some attempt to sort of paint the war, but they don't have the money for it, and they've got a few cardboard corridors and a few expres lying groaning on the floor, but it's not a very interesting portrayal of, you know, a war going on for ages and ages.

[06:18]

It's so great.

It's so gray on actress.

It's so beige and not inhabited on the os.

And then it's so like we're in the caves on the planet of evil.

Which isn't a planet at all. something evil.

Oh, but look, we're in, it's very stagey.

Like the way it's staged with the whole set and the marsh were talking to the mirror and sort of talking out to the audience, which I assume is some sort of big screen that he's looking at how the war's going or something like that.

Am I wrong or not?

Yeah, you do get a few reverse under the shoulder shots of the screen and the graphics on there. 6 ships.

I actually quite like the marshal.

I actually quite like his, actually quite like his portrayal and that sort of thing.

It just gets very boring.

He's got a good voice.

Yeah, it's John Woodvine. you know, he's always, he's always good and he's always entertaining.

And, you know, before the end of his life, he'll turn up in Poirot and Marble and things.

I've been very quiet, haven't I?

[07:19]

Yeah, you've just been watching it.

You know what I'm going to say, don't you?

You like this one?

Oh my god.

Mary Tan in this is the hottest thing ever.

That woman in that white dress is just like, 0 my goodness.

I mean, oh my goodness.

I have to agree with you.

And Mary is one of the major saving graces of the story.

Despite the fact you can tell she's incredibly bored and she's just waiting for it all to wrap up.

No, you know, I completely agree, but the story is cheap and it's tawdry and it's cliche and it is problem filled.

But I can't help but love it.

Really?

So tell us about it.

You know, I, but the thing is, I love it as a popcorn ironing movie doctor who, you know, it's not going to win any awards.

It doesn't belong in the top 10.

It doesn't belong in the top 100, top 150 might be pushing it.

But it is entertaining.

And I think for once, the Bristol boys have tried to stick with one plot.

[08:24]

And it's the plot of the war between the 2 planets.

The main problem is, they have enough plot for four episodes.

Correct.

And it's a 6 parter.

I mean, they really needed to do 4 episodes and then have 2 episodes of wrap-up with the whole season, rather than this, you know, at the beginning of the season, we had like a scene with the White Guardian, and at the end of the season, we've got a scene with the Black Guardian to wrap up the whole thing.

I think you really needed more.

Yeah, yeah.

I think, I think, but I think the episodes which don't have any plot are the middle two.

They are the worst.

I mean, I actually came into this thinking this is really going to be a hard slog, and it is in the middle, and I had to watch it, like, you may remember how I used to watch the Pertury 6 parties by watching it, like, one.

Well, two... once every couple of months.

Well, once in a while and then coming back to it.

And I think for 1978. that's not acceptable.

Yeah.

The last time we had a story that was set all indoors.

A 6 parter was walked.

The monster of Peloton.

And look how that turned out.

[09:24]

And the one before that that had limited location where it was the planet of the Daleks. you know what I think of that.

Yeah, I mean, there's very little prefilmed in this.

There's the model sequences.

The bloody stupid fire furnace walking sequence.

Yeah.

Oh, I don't know this with canine.

That is so dumb.

Was that the point of that?

They just put him in there.

He's going to fry.

And then they cut to the doctor going, it's like they don't know how to write for K9, but they wrote his 1st story.

Yeah, they created this.

I think they want to.

I think they want to give him a cliffhanger or some peril or something like that.

But it doesn't end up being a cliffhanger.

Although, we can look at this as fans with encyclopaedic knowledge and our scarves and our sonic screwdriver replicas and what have you.

When I was watching this with Rod, who's not a huge fan.

He doesn't remember season 18 all that much.

So he couldn't remember how the 2nd canome was written out.

So for him, not having the knowledge of what comes afterwards, he thought this could have been the end of canine.

They would never have done that, though.

[10:25]

Wouldn't they someone, though?

Because the kiddies, you know, the kids love canine. they're not going to melt canine down.

Well, the thing is, he's already had a pretty rough time of it this year.

You know, in Pirate Planet, he gets shot and temporarily disabled, in stones of blood, he gets whacked around, in Android Atari gets left in a boat.

Yeah, I was sad about that.

Yeah He sort of does that.

He does that plaintively here on the conveyor belt.

Land at the sheepish line.

You remember Lambert the sheepish lion?

Okay, going back to episode one.

We're also introduced to Princess Astra.

As a kid, I thought astronaut's fantastic.

Like, we had to hold an AstraCar.

We had a car called Princess Astro, my sister's car.

And and and I thought she was just so wonderful.

It was like ABBA, like she was the blonde one and then the dark one was very dark one.

But can I just say?

And I think that Lala Ward is pretty crappy in this.

[11:26]

She's terrible.

The 1st 4 episodes.

She's really not great.

She doesn't have any presence at all.

And it's like, I don't really care what happens to her.

But later on in the story, when she's actually with Tom and Mary in those sequences that she begins to lift, you can actually see her lifting to those 2 their performances.

It's actually quite interesting to see, and I can possibly see then why Mary suggested her for the role and thus.

Oh, did Mary suggest her for the role?

Yeah, yeah.

So Graham Williams had another casting crisis at the end of this.

We have to talk about that next week because it's terrible.

But this end of it is Mary Tamb was doing the same thing Louise Jameson did, which is halfway through the season.

She said, look, I don't want to continue next year, thus giving Graham Williams plenty of time to figure out how to write her out.

Once again, Graham Williams didn't believe her, like he didn't believe Louise Jameson.

So, We ended up with this situation where Graham Williams was constantly begging her to stay and then coupled with that.

Tom was starting to become more demanding and he was saying, I'll only stay next year if I have script control.

[12:30]

This is where he came up with the idea of the talking cabbage on his shoulder.

And Graham McDonald, who we heard last week, was ordering less horror and less comedy in the series.

Graham McDonald actually ordered Graham Williams to fire Tom Baker.

But at the end of this season, at the end of this season, let him finish out the season because that was the end of his contract, the end of this year, and then fire him.

When Armageddon factor went before the cameras, Tom was not signed up for season 17.

Wow.

He did not officially sign a contract until after filming had finished.

For one year or for 2 or for what?

I believe after this, he signed up on a year-by-year basis. imagine if they hadn't contracted here.

And then we'd start, we'd have to start a new season with a completely new doctor.

With no regeneration.

Peter Davidson in a league in Tom's costume, slamming his head into the console.

It would have been it would have been a disaster.

[13:31]

Now, not foreshadowing at all.

Now, the thing is, they did come to, if you'd like a gentleman's agreement before signing the contract, that Tom would continue, which is why they didn't film any sort of death scene for Tom or whatever.

But they had to think about Mary's replacement, 1st of all.

And I think it was in the BBC canteen of the final filming session.

So you had Tom Baker, Mary Tam, Lull Award, Graham Williams, Andrew Reed, Michael Hazel, sitting around a table, and Graham Williams publicly, still begging Mary Tam to stay, and her saying, no, no, really.

I've done it for a year.

The parts don't become weak. you know, the other week I was screaming at a bloke in a green costume.

She probably wanted to return to acting.

Yes.

And he said, but who am I going to get to replace you?

And she said, well, what about Lala?

Lala's been really wonderful.

You're going to say, what about John Woodfall?

wig.

[14:31]

You know, you'd be great.

And she said, you can let down Lala's hair.

She looks very different with her hair down than her hair up.

You can just, and then she became aware that no one on the table was making eye contact and she's like, right, I'm not the 1st person to suggest this.

And so that's when she really laid it on.

No, you should absolutely get it in to try and get them to get Lala, which indeed we'll discover next year that they did.

But it's interesting that Mary Mary stated that, you know, had she known they were going to film in Paris, she might have stayed on.

And also, had they asked her to come back for a generation scene, she might have actually done it, right?

They never asked her.

Yeah.

I mean, that's insanity.

This thing where, you know, they're taking great care with Joe and Sarah, but I don't think Graham Williams takes particularly good care about who the companions are or creating a coherent story for them or anything like that.

And that's why Leila's leaving is so perfunctory.

And that's why, you know, we don't, he doesn't he just doesn't really care about them.

[15:35]

You know, he wants a lead woman in the cast who can do wisecracking and split the plot, but he's not very interested in making them a person.

And the charm of the companions in the Williams era, I think, is entirely down to the performance of the 3 actors who are all just varying degrees of fantastic.

Well, I'll agree with you about the actresses having to bring something to the table to make the characters more than what they are.

I think I do think that Leila is not great in season 15, the way that she's written and Louise does a great performance, but the character's all over the place.

I think Mary does the best of the 3 of them.

I think this year she is, you know, she's really consistent throughout.

You guys get to discuss Lila next year, but I think Lila takes a while to find what she wants to do with it.

And when she finds what she wants to do, but she does a great job, but I still think it does take a few stories, whereas I think of the 3 grand whims, female leads.

The one thing I've discovered is that Mary Tams Romana is my favourite by far.

Oh definitely.

I'm not surprised to hear it.

I love Lala and I think she brings something to the table that Mary doesn't.

[16:39]

There's a real sort of impish fun, which is a nice break after all the ironic detachment.

Not in this though.

No.

She's not impish She's terrible in this.

And maybe it's because she's paired up with maybe the worst actor to appear ever on Doctor Who since Jenny Lair.

He may actually be up for the eponymous journey Laird award.

The shocking guard that she's paired up.

Oh, him.

Right.

Yes.

God, he's really bad.

He's either John Cannon or Harry Fielder.

They are the 2 guards in this.

Oh, yes.

In episode one, I've got a note here, I'm I think.

The guard is rubbish, who accompanies company's Princess Astra.

Yeah, so maybe she's acting down to his level at the beginning and she starts to lift it when she's in scenes with Tom and Mary later.

Well, the thing is, like, at the end of episode one, when she goes into the room, she's clearly playing it, like she knows that she's being led into a trap.

Yeah, none of that makes any sense.

Yeah.

Well, the thing is, it only makes sense if the guard is playing up to his dialogue because the guard's dialogue is, please, princess, I'm sorry, you must go in.

[17:42]

Like, so obviously the guard's in fear for his wife if she doesn't go in and that's why she does it.

But of course, he expresses no fear or emotion whatsoever.

So I think her performance in that is fine, but she's acting to something that's not happening.

And of course, this is where my joke about gurads comes in earlier.

Yeah, what was that?

The designer for this episode, Michael Birdle, costume designer, received a script and started designing the monsters.

And so he came to the production meeting and says, oh, look, I've got these monsters and they're 8 foot tall and they're really scary and the director's like, I'm sorry, monsters?

They're the shadows men, but you know, they're just sort of half maskings.

And he's like, no, but there was no description for them.

So I just made it up.

The gurads.

And they grabbed the script and that's a typo.

It's guards.

Brilliant.

So this poor designer put in all these hours designing, the Gurads is, you know, the next quarks or whatever.

And yeah, they ended up just being guards with little neck dangly pens as they're communicators and things.

[18:45]

So, presumably big finish plans are trilogy of stories about the gurads, you know, anything.

Featuring John Hurt and Jacqueline Pierce, that's correct.

Yeah, cool.

Back in episode one.

The TARDIS, don't they send a missile to destroy the TARDIS and then the TARDIS immaterializes and the missile still gets destroyed.

Like, that makes no sense to me.

Am I sure they did it.

They did it previously in the invasion and then subsequently in worries of the D. It's constantly happening.

Yeah, yeah.

The TARDIS disappears at the right moment.

Just for the Miss Alter, touch the outer plasmic show and explode as the TARDIS fades away.

So thank you.

So do with the hands.

You've now explained that to me and that's something that I'd be happy about.

I'm happy about that.

It happens later on, I think, too, in time lash or something like that.

And I kind of don't get it either.

So, okay, thank you, Brendan.

I feeling much wrong.

Speaking of the TARDIS, though, the cliffhanger for episode one is such a cop out, because they're running down the corridor and Mary runs fabulously down the corridor with the phone.

[19:46]

Please, that's fantastic.

And then she gets the great cliffhanger.

The TARDIS, it's gone.

And then the 1st line after that in episode 2 is bedded under all that rubble.

It like, well that's not gone.

But then it turns out that, yes, it is gone.

Because it turns up later on on Zeos with the planet of with the shadow. planet of things, isn't it?

Yeah, it's on Zen?

Or is it on the middle?

It's on Zeos at 1st because that's where the doctor gets interrogated.

Yeah, it's on Zeos.

It's on Zeos.

And then it goes to the...

Can we talk about Zeos?

and the disappearance of the Zeons, which is rather a metaphor with the audience?

Well, apparently they weren't, they were going to exist.

And then there were budget.

Anthony Reid had to come back to the Bob Baker and Dave Martin and say, well, sorry, we don't have enough money. lose the zeons from Zeos.

Yeah.

And so we never find out what happened to them.

There's no reason that they're not there.

No.

I like the idea.

And I kind of wish it was in the script because of course, you know, they Drax installs mentalis.

We're not up to Drax yet. but anyway, Jackson stalls mentalists.

[20:46]

And I rather like the idea that the zeons kind of say to him, oh, so you've installed this thing that's going to attack them.

But they might attack us and blow up the planet.

Okay, everybody out. holiday.

I think the whole planet's on holiday.

Just like all of the Marshall staff in episode 5 and six.

Have you noticed there's no one in the control room in the last 2 episodes?

on atrios?

It's really populating episode one.

They had tracking shots of them and their gray jumpsuits and all that sort of thing and then they just all...

So they can't even afford just sort of warm-blooded people in gray jumpsuits.

That's right Really?

Or to explain how American chap in episode 6 understand all about what the key time is and a time loop and how all of that works.

Oh, well, you know, 65 episodes in, who cares?

We've forgotten what happened in episode two.

Speaking of which, we'll just go back to episode 2.

Oh, yeah.

So I didn't mind watching episode one.

There's enough story there and you're sort of, what's going on?

And then you get into episode 2 and K9 has to survive the whole recycling thing, which is dire.

You suddenly get the foreshadowing of Princess Astra as a 67 of the key to time with them finding her little Coronet thing and using the tracer to sort of like, well, you know, come on, people.

[21:57]

Come on, Romana. like surely you can work it out.

But then you also get like, when a mushroom looks in the mirror and because the doctor must not die. yet.

And that little thing on his neck and that sort of thing.

I'm thinking, and as a kid, I kind of thought, that's sort of very like the master used to control people, you know?

And I know it's not.

Did you think it was the master?

I thought, well, maybe it's the master.

I mean, I didn't know anything about, what was that other story?

The deadly assassin.

Sorry, I'd forgotten about that.

So, yeah, it's all very stagey still, and I'm still enjoying episode two. besides the canine thing, which I think is a bit rubbish.

It's a lovely conversation, the doctor and Romana about Zeos and the marshal. they keep pulling to one side and they have their little tete a tete together. you know what I'm talking about?

So there's enough that's going on there that I quite like, but I just wanted to say that the marshal already makes no sense at this point in the story.

And so he's trying to kill the doctor and then, like, mere moments later.

He's the doctor's best friend and he's buddying up to him and wanting some help with the war.

[23:03]

Well, because the shadows told him to.

I know, but I mean, yeah, like he's mind controlled and so he has absolutely no kind of coherent personality or motivation or anything.

I just think it's giantly messy and sort of plot driven.

You know, there's no real reason for any of the things that happen.

It doesn't worry me that he goes from one to the other.

The doctor works out something not right, you know, that sort of thing.

So yes, it is plot driven and that sort of thing.

I guess we're getting from A to B to C.

But there's so much getting from A to B to C.

Do you know what I mean?

Like it's, the whole thing is such a dull runaround.

And there's no real progression of anything.

But at this point, 2 episodes in, it's just about holding it together.

It's okay.

Yeah, yeah.

It's about to fall to pieces.

But at this point, I'm still going with it.

You know, I'm still going with it.

You know, when we've got their battle fleet of 6 ships going down to three.

They're going, is this for real?

Like, is that really a clever plot point or is that just stupid?

Oh, it's boring.

It's just a way of feeling in air time?

[24:04]

Just dots.

Just dots on the screen.

They're playing asteroids.

That's what it is So if we get to the end of the episode, the doctor goes into this transmit thing.

And doesn't Paul Mary Tend have to try and run for the trans mat?

It's a trap.

Yes, doesn't she say that?

And he hears it and then disappears.

That's right, but she doesn't get to it in time because she has to do some sort of stage acting because the door will only close this slow, like so slowly and she's going, you know, slow running.

Like the Ogons in Day of the Daleks.

Yeah, she sort of gets to it when it's still about a foot open, you know?

ridiculous.

And there's a slightly different reprise too, between episodes too.

There's no doctor in part 3 mini part three.

Yeah, and you don't get the crash zoom on Mary Tam going, doctor.

Which is a bit of a shame, you know?

There's always room for a cross zoom of Mary Tan.

Every shot in this story should be a crash zoom of Mary Tann.

I agree.

They're much better.

Now, the Shadow.

He was not the master, but the agent to the Black Guardian.

He has 2 noses.

[25:05]

Yes, he does.

One nose on top of the other.

The actor's nose and then the skull head nose.

I think he looks pretty good, actually, and he has a great voice, but he's so generic.

I mean, he's just sort of terribly boring, and part of it is the arc, you know, which is presented in its least subtle way as a sort of battle between good and evil.

You know, we've got to get the key to time and give it to the good guy, so the evil guy doesn't get hold of it.

You know, all of that's sort of very boring.

And so the show can't help but be boring.

I mean, you complained earlier, Todd, that he'd come up with the idea of just sitting there waiting for the doctor to turn up with the key.

I actually think that was a good way of keeping the Black Guardian out of the plot of any of the previous story.

Well, I mean, that's a good point, Nathan.

Otherwise, he might have had like the doctor versus some sort of agent, but yeah, there's no agents.

Like they flirt with the idea very briefly in rebus operation, don't they?

Yeah, and Stones of Blood.

[26:06]

Saire implies that she might know what's going on.

It doesn't say it overtly.

That never really occurred to me.

Like as a kid or even now, like, you know, that they could have put an agent in there.

Like it just, he just sits there.

And he literally, is the guy really old?

Yeah, he just sits there.

I think it was, I think it was about 68 or something like that.

He was quite old.

You know, for, you know, 70 standards.

That's quite old.

Yeah, I'm sure he was born in 1910 or something like that.

So it was 67, 68.

Has he been in anything else doing home?

What his name?

His name is William Squire.

And he did have quite a long tradition, a bit like, he was a bit like Valentine Dahl, who will turn up at the end of this story as well, spoiler alert, but he had a long tradition of sort of playing characters with very mollifluous voices and what have you.

But it's so boring.

Like these surfaces where he just, he just talks about getting the key to time.

And then walks a bit and then sits a bit and then he has his pathetic guards.

[27:07]

Oh, it just drives my head in.

Three and four are really a struggle to get through.

They really are.

What about the long scene of canine and mentalism beeping at each other?

Why does B9 spin around?

Like a spinning top.

It's insane.

And the doctor says I've never seen him do that before.

Oh, no, not like 5 stories.

The pirate planet.

There is one good thing about that scene.

And it's something my brother actually picked up on once when we were watching it together.

And that's when Romana's really intrigued by them.

Oh, it's like the dance of the bees. and Merritt's like, what are bees?

Insects with stings, and it tells.

The doctor is annoyed because someone is messing around with his dog.

Really?

Which, you know, which is a very human thing. like how dare you mess around with my dog.

So that's why he says that line, the B thing, like so snappy.

Because I've written in my notes here, why does Tom say it's so snappy?

Sorry, guys, I just this is out there.

This is the sort of um, level of intellect you have on the podcast when I'm around.

[28:07]

But yeah, that's why it's because someone is messing about with his dog.

Maybe.

Or, you know...

As Tom has always said, what he loved most about, the doctor was working with other actors.

What has he got for this recording session?

He's got Merak and he's got Shap, who's played by David Harris, and by this point, David Harris retires from acting after the 1st studio recording block.

Like, is he being something else, like other shows?

Yeah, yeah. his Doran in that terrible Blake 7 episode Moloch.

Oh, okay.

I knew I'd seen his Villa's friend.

He's a psychopath.

Oh, of course.

Sorry, just sit down there.

We're just, okay, I know who he is now.

Because his face was so recognisable.

And I quite like the early stuff, but then it just, in episode four, he does some stupid, like, comedy prat form.

Yeah.

I'm just going, episode four, the whole thing is by episode four, everything's falling apart.

Who's the pilot in the ship?

As Pat Gorman?

Pat watch.

[29:07]

He's been in a performance, isn't he?

Yes, he's like a Silurian or two.

Is it Romana that suggests to the doctor to put the key to time together with a fake piece?

Yeah, I really like that, actually.

That's the one idea that I like.

And I think it's the, it's very clever and it's like, you'd never have thought to come to me.

Like you put it together and then, you know, make a fake piece to have the whole thing going.

And I actually do like the whole idea of the countdown.

It's very monotonous.

Yeah, yeah.

No, I think that that's actually pretty good.

And given that, you know, we're actually not going to see the key to time actually do anything.

You know, we've been searching for it all year and then it breaks.

The doctor breaks it, you know, before he gives it to the Guardian.

There's no resolution, nothing's going to happen.

So we do at least get to see the key in action.

And that is quite fun.

It is the most obvious use of polystyrene since some rocks fell on Joe's head on the planet Spirit on.

It's really bad, polycyone, isn't it?

I do have to say that Bob Baker and Dave Martin miss a trick with the key of time because something we've always said about them is that they have so many ideas and they play with them and then they chuck them away.

[30:14]

When they put the key to time together, their only time for it is to throw around a time loop, you know, why not have some other time travel things in there, why not get the video disc player out and run some time backwards and things like that?

Could have been like another time monster.

Yeah, why not?

Well, they had used time loops before back in the claws of Axel, which they wrote.

So, you know, they're minding their own past, you know?

Well, this is perhaps appropriate.

Is it a good time to mention that this is the last time they write together on anything?

They fight, don't they?

They have a lover's quarrel or something?

Well, all the reports are that they just decided after 11 years to write separately.

And of course, Dave Martin is no longer with us, but Bob Baker says that there was never any animosity.

It was just a mutual decision to dissolve the partnership.

There is a solo story yet to come from...

Bob Baker. that's right Which one is it?

Nightmare of Eden.

That's actually not so bad.

Exactly.

That's a pretty reasonable script.

But, and I haven't said this for a while.

[31:14]

We're getting ahead of ourselves.

Okay.

So going back to where we were in episode four, K9 gets his own little adventure to go on, which is boring as.

We've got the Marshall on repeat, boring, but we do get the 2 Romanas together.

Well, not quite yet.

It's really weird seeing Mary Tan and Lala Ward together on screen.

It's just like Day of the Doctor.

It's the day of Romana.

Only that it happened.

But it is weird seeing them both together.

I just, it doesn't freak me out, but I just, it's just like, oh, it's a strange.

It's just weird.

And they do bounce off each other quite well.

Apparently they got on very well behind the scenes too.

They both had a very wicked sense of humour, which led to Mary Tam christening Lal Award as Princess Disaster. and Lala Ward returning the favour with Trattoria Romana.

That's brilliant.

[32:15]

I like that I can see from your facial expression and the fact that we're talking about episode four.

I know what you're about talk about.

Well, episode five, because I just want to get through episode four.

Does Drax turn up at the end of episode four?

I know he's in episode five.

Yeah.

Okay.

So episode five.

We get another time lord in Drax.

Who is Cockney?

No, yeah.

Yeah, Cockney.

Cockney.

And he's wearing what the hell is he wearing?

Space clothes.

Yeah, the space jumpsuit.

Space shell suit.

So I thought it was more like if you're on a motorbike or something.

Maybe it's TARDIS as disguised as a motorbike.

In the later book, the later choose your own adventure book by Dave Martin, search for the doctor, Drax's TARDIS is in the form of a pink Cadillac.

Oh God, they're horrible.

Thank you so much.

So he calls the Dr. Peter Sigma.

Is that right?

Beta sigma.

Fate.

So what do you think of him?

He's really terrible.

See, the actor or the character?

[33:17]

The actor can't do natural hand gestures or anything?

or kind of talk normally.

So it's like a really bizarrely affected performance.

And it's clearly intended to be funny, but just really isn't.

You know, like I've got no objection to the idea.

I'm just watching Brendan's face because at the moment I finish this sentence, he's going to leaf in and say how much he likes, right?

You're right.

So do I. See, I really like, I agree with you that the comedy is very laboured.

So I think where the comedy comes from is the interplay with Tom and especially the reactions with Tom, because at this point, of course, Tom Baker and Doctor Who are pretty much one and the same.

So you've got the doctor B looking incredibly uncomfortable that someone is coming in and stealing his show because that is what Drags does.

You know, he's, I think he is this likeable, he is a larger than life character, and there is at least an explanation as to why he sounds so ridiculously halfpenny Dick Van Dyke Cockney.

[34:25]

He was in prison?

He was in prison in Brixton.

So he had to learn to speak the lingo night. very demotic.

I think it lifts the story.

Yeah, and I like his performance generally.

I think the character does some really stupid things.

He talks about gala free, right?

Everyone's pronouncing it gallery.

They've been doing that for a while.

But, you know, this episode, of course, canine is possessed in this episode, of course, the doctor doctor.

Like I mean, it's just so obvious that he's possessed.

Yeah.

And notes Draxicillinus.

Your silliness is noted.

How does that go, Brendan?

Your silliness has been noted.

Very good.

I've jumped past, of course, the Cliffhanger episode 45, which is the shadow going, the key to time is mine. mine.

Ha, ha, ha.

Yeah, that's really cool.

Yeah, which is boring.

And is that because he's left the door open?

The key time is it.

Yes, and then he goes to try and get it.

And then we get those 3 flashes of light where he sort of goes flows back and back.

[35:27]

What is that?

What is that?

I don't know.

And then one of his mutes kicks off the carpet on the way into the Tartars.

That's a famous blooper that's still being wheeled out by ITV for their TV gone wrong specials.

You could just show the Armageddon factor, so I think they've gone on a special thing.

Well, of course, you do get multiple Marys in this episode calling the doctor.

Doctor, doctor.

Doctor.

Yeah, very seductive, but only for about 15 seconds.

But that adds. 15 seconds adds up to the 2 episodes that are really good in this story.

Yeah, you've got to multiply those 15 seconds by the number of Marys involved in order to.

I love and I love how horrified the doctor is by the by the concept of so many Romaldas telling him he's wrong in piloting the Tartars properly.

She actually asks him in episode one, way back then, whether he didn't they teach him anything at the academy, which I think is really that's terrifically good.

Their relationships developed, you know, such as it is.

[36:31]

And of course, it's from episode 4 and 5 where we get those famous some BBC VT clips from the BBC Christmas tapes with lots of bloopers from Tom and Mary, such as how long till detonation canine.

Insufficient data?

Yeah, you never, you know the answer when it's important to you.

And and several bloopers where Tom and Mary flop their dialogue and just look at each other and go in for a kiss.

I have seen that.

Is he on the DVD?

Yeah, it's on the DVD. from rehearsal footage because Mary's still got her hair up in rollers.

Is it the one where they, where he asks, what, what do you want for Christmas doctor and he just looks over it?

at Mary.

Yeah, that's the one.

That was recorded.

What BBCBT was.

It was a yearly tape shown at the BBC Christmas party and it was a collection of bloopers and also skits.

So, for instance, Tom asking, Tom looking at Mary is what he wanted for Christmas, was a respectfully recorded skip, whereas you never know the answer when it's important, was a blooper from the technical rehearsal, where they could afford to have flubs and whatnot.

[37:35]

Because, of course, another big problem in this story is with no location filming and almost no model or pre-filming, instead of having to record the equivalent, say, 35 to 40 minutes worth of studio in one studio session.

They had to record 50 minutes.

Okay, because they're shooting virtually 2 entire episode.

Exactly, yeah.

I mean, that's not an excuse, but that's just pointing out why you get moments like kicking up the carpet.

It's also in this episode, I think, Merrick pulls down a whole...

Yeah, very interesting shop with the camera lens and that sort of thing where it's not really a hole when they're looking down.

I never quite understood how that works.

Or what's even going on.

But as a kid, I always remember, and when I came back to Zoe's remember, oh, he's the wet one that keeps calling out the Astor all the time.

But it's actually quite late in the story that he starts doing that.

But it always sticks in my mind.

Like the last episode and a half, that's all he's doing.

Yeah, he's not.

I mean, he is a bit wet, as you say, alien, Nathan, but he's not too bad at the beginning and he gets that wonderful moment with Tom and Mary where, you know, he's in the room and Astra's disappeared and he's really, really distraught.

[38:47]

And the doctor and Ramana are like, well, why?

What's wrong?

What are you doing here?

Because I love her.

And they both just look incredibly sort of, oh, oh, do that.

That's a thing.

So we can see in the episode, the doctor gets shot by Drax because the guard is opened.

The Tana store is open and the guard's going to go in or something like that.

Yeah.

Am I wrong?

Yeah, no, no, the door's open.

The door's open.

And so Jack's running during the guard, shoots the doctor and himself.

But the gun shrinks anyway.

Like, surely the gun should not shrink.

Like, this is a country.

Like, I don't understand.

That's brilliant.

That's never occurred to me.

I'm going to say, this is insane.

Like, this is one of their ideas, you know, and it's like, well, surely the gun should, the gun should be that same size.

You shot that.

So why does why does that happen?

They shoot themselves so that they can do the Trojan horse thing with canine.

Well, they Tom actually, the doctor actually wants him to shoot the gun.

[39:48]

And because he doesn't shoot the guard, they do the Trojan horse thing.

Why does it why did Bob and Dave do it?

Do you know what I mean?

Because I've got an episode to go.

Well, they haven't shrunk anyone this episode and they thought, well, shrinking works so well last time we did shrinking.

I think this is where the door is open.

And then this is the light that affects the shadow.

Why does the light affect the shadow?

Because he's the shadow.

Yeah.

Like, he mentions that he's been waiting.

Well, Princess Astra should be born.

So does that mean he's been waiting for generations after generations?

Thousands of years.

It's so boring.

But it must be so bored.

He must be like those people on board the one 4 or whatever it is.

What's that called?

Uh, one C?

Oh, one C.

The Argo.

Look, all I can say is like we get to this point in the story. and like it feels like a 1000 years.

It really does.

And it is boring.

It's like, I just wanted to finish.

The, the one thing I've said that I like the time loop and the, and the key to time thing, the other thing that I do like, I guess, and it doesn't really go anywhere is that Princess Astra is the 6th segment.

[40:54]

And so they're all kind of statues and baubles and things up to this point, aren't they?

Really?

So we had Lump of Jethric, Planet Califracs, Pendant.

Then we had a statue head.

Yeah, then the symbol of Kroll's power, which we don't know whether it changed shape or not before Kroll ate it or if it was just sitting around as a crystal.

I mean it was probably an amulet or something.

Yeah, yeah.

So they're all amulets, but this one's an actual person.

And so there's a sort of moral dilemma here about, you know, like to fulfil their mission.

They have to kind of sacrifice Astra.

And they do have an argument about that.

And it's probably the last bit of character development that Mary Hammers Romana gets because she goes from being very aloof and not really caring about people in the Ribots operation to now saying, you know, now we're murderers and we've killed someone and then the doctor has to point out the bigger picture to her.

So the roles from their 1st meeting are kind of reversed.

[41:56]

I wonder who wrote that.

Because like, okay, so Bob Baker and Dave Martin have delivered this script, but whether or not they actually did that dialogue.

I mean, Anthony reads out the door as script editor, he's leading the show.

Adam even does some work on episode six, doesn't he?

Douglas Adams does work at the end to wrap everything up.

The last scenes in the TARDIS, I believe, are his.

Yep.

And I think that's part of the reason why this story.

Maybe, I mean, it was always not going to be great, written by these 2 as far as I'm concerned.

But, you know, when you're leaving a job in the last few weeks of a job, you do what you need to do and you go, well, I'll leave the rest, you know, for who's ever going to come after me.

And so, you know, Anthony reads decided to leave as good editor.

The banker boys have delivered a script that is workable.

How much work is he really going to do on it, you know?

Enough to make sure that it's perfunctory up to a point.

And then it's like, well, I'm leaving, you know?

It is, I mean, you know, we all think of the key to time as this big overarching theme and, you know, all the DVDs get released in one big box set and all of that sort of thing.

[43:01]

But I actually find it hard to believe that anyone working on the show thought of it like that at all.

Yeah, I mean, Graham Williams had this idea that he wanted to do a season long arc as soon as he came in, but he couldn't get it together for season 15.

But it's like he didn't really get it together here either.

You know, he just gives everyone this concept of, you need to have this crystal in your story about the doctor and Romana are hunting for, do whatever else you like.

Well, I mean, you know, the advantage of it is it gets the doctor to do something, like he's in every place for a reason.

And, you know, the following year it will be, you know, the randomiser, which just means that he turns up somewhere random, like he did for the 1st few years of the show.

So he's concerned about not having to provide the doctor with a reason for being a new novel reason for being in the story every, you know, like every story.

But, you know, the fact that they hadn't thought about how they were going to wrap it up that Anthony Reid didn't have an idea of what was going to happen.

[44:02]

And the end is terrible, isn't it?

Yeah.

Look I agree with you.

It's like, they said, Tony, they said, this is what it's all about, you know, on this mission, blah, blah, blah, blah.

But then the document was never finished to say, well, how are we going to conclude it?

They never really thought through that completing thing, which I just think is so important.

I mean, they're going to make the same mistake in several years time with the trial of a time lord where, oh, yes, we'll do this trial and then, well, they haven't really thought about how they're going to wrap it up.

It's just, you know, and it's just, it really undermines everything that's been going on.

I mean, it's been an entertaining season.

The individual stories have been great.

Even the idea of having them hunting for segments of the key to time, that's quite good in the individual stories.

But when they get the key to time, we just want more.

You get that one's taken to where the doctors, you know, saying, well, the white guardians had enough time now to do whatever he needs to do all the time to reset or whatever it talks about.

And then, you know, he commands the whole thing to stay where it is and then by breaking the trace that the whole thing gets scattered back, you know, to wherever, it seems pointless, I don't know, pointless, but yeah, yeah, it does seem pointless.

[45:14]

The fact that the getting the key to time and having the guardian fix everything is just dealt with in a line of dialogue.

And what's the deal with the Guardians?

Like, I mean, they can't touch them.

Who said, did they set them up as a little game for themselves to find the jigsaw puzzle thing or is it some higher being above them?

Like, there's questions that are unanswered?

It is described as guardian technology.

So the implication is that the Guardians created the key.

Just so they're like playing a game of chess and like, I'm going to win this week. you know, there's a bit more goodness in the universe and next people, I'm in charge, there's a bit more evil happening.

Yeah, I mean, none of that makes any sense at all, does it?

Just no sense.

I have a few answers to some script questions you raised.

Now, 1st of all, a moral dilemma in the final episodes as we discover that Astra is the 6th segment of the Keys time.

The original 6th segment in the Bob Baker and Dave Martin scripts was the shadow of the shadow.

So the shadow zone shadow was 6 segment.

[46:15]

So he'd been waiting around all this time only to discover that the segment was within him all along.

Anthony Reed changed that.

Thank you, Anthony.

That was a good move.

Don't thank him too quickly.

Oh, okay, what's happening next?

Well, you know how we were talking about, isn't it a shame that there are no zeons on Zeos?

He accident, didn't he?

He acts them.

It wasn't in consultation with Bob Baker and Dave Martin.

He just cut them out of the script and substituted Mentalus.

I was saying, well, Mentalis wasn't even their idea.

No, it just seems like a Bob Baker and Dave Martin idea that it's sort of pointless and over fairly quickly.

So he's done some work on this script.

Yeah, so literally the 1st 5.5 episodes are his and the last half of episode 6 is Douglas Adams and Graham Williams.

And especially that last scene, because in Anthony Reed slash Bob Baker and Dave Martin's version, it's much the same.

So the doctor disperses the key to time, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Except the Guardian doesn't even show up.

[47:17]

The doctor just has his little bit about, you know, I can do anything because I possess the key to time.

That is terrible. to give him a good slap before.

Well, that's all right.

Mary Tam did instead.

That's good.

I like when she waxing on the shoulder.

But yeah, they just had the doctor going, oh, you know what?

This is too powerful, snap and all over.

We see, I mean, even that would have been something, you know, like the, the rejection of the, of the arc, the idea that there's someone, like a white guardian who can be given the key to time, whether that's a coherent idea or even a desirable idea, some old white guy, you know, in an unconvincing garden somewhere. you know, that he's the arbiter of what's good and right and he should have ultimate power to, you know, impose his vision of the universe on everyone.

You know, like a proper wholehearted rejection. of that idea.

Instead, you get this sort of muddy thing where maybe Valentine dials, the Black Guardian or the White Guardian or something, and it's all just a huge incoherent mass.

[48:26]

Look, at least he's there.

Like, I think it would have been terrible if there'd been no guardian and it just ended.

Yeah, yeah.

I agree.

You know?

And of course, it does end.

It ends for this version of Romana.

She does get a nice line at the end.

I think Mary does, like, you know, the doctor talks about, nobody knows where they're going, and she gets to say, not even us.

I just love that delivery and I think it ends on her, actually.

Oh, no, doesn't Tom ruin it?

I'm laughing into the camera.

Yeah, yeah, as usual, as usual. era.

I'm Perhaps this wish performant.

I wanted it to end on her.

I like how she tells him off.

Oh, yeah.

It's wonderful.

Look, this is dull and pedestrian and dire at times many times.

I still prefer to watch this story than Underworld and the Invisible Enemy.

That's not exactly a ringing endorsement.

Maybe not, but it's Mary Tam that keeps me going throughout this entire thing.

[49:27]

Yeah fair enough.

Well, as we say goodbye to Bob Baker and Dave Martin.

We've had perhaps appropriately into our Jenny Laird awards for most puzzling creative choice.

So, gentlemen, are we going to shoot fish in a barrel or are we going to go for someone else?

Who are we shooting?

Bob Baker and Dave Martin.

Would be the obvious choice.

I'm going to go out there and actually choose someone who I've spent the last 12 weeks of our podcast vehemently defending for the most part.

I'm going to choose Graham Williams because he had this.

He had this vision for Doctor Who, where he wanted the doctor to have responsibility and he wanted the doctor to have a mission and he found it morally abhorrent, but the doctor could just goof off around the universe without having any sort of mission.

But he himself doesn't come up with a coherent vision for that.

You know, he doesn't come up with a proper story arc.

You know, even if he'd just come up with the setup and come up with the last 2 episodes, as you suggest, Todd.

[50:29]

You know, we really should have had 2 episodes to wind this all up.

Two episodes with the Guardians, you know?

In our location work, something.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Put us in a proper garden, give us a sort of half illusory sequence, like the deadly assassin part three.

Give us something, Graham.

I know you were under a lot of pressure, and of course, he's no longer with us.

And I love his work on the series.

I love his individual stories, but I think maybe even he realised that a story arc was a bad idea because of course he doesn't develop one for next year.

So, sadly, as much as I love him, Graham Williams is my choice of my Jenny Laird, the most puzzling creative choice.

I'm going to give it to Anthony Reed, a script editor who I generally really love.

Um, but the fact that he employed Bob Baker and Dave Martin to write the conclusion of this season.

Why?

Just why?

Couldn't you've got somebody else?

I mean, really, honestly, why?

Nathan, of course, is gonna come up with something far more interesting and witty, aren't you?

[51:32]

I wouldn't count on it.

It's either that, or I have to give it to the Tarim would beast.

I did consider that.

But at least with the Torren Woodbeast, you know, they minimised its exposure as much as possible.

Or I might give it to the sunset behind Tom and Mary in the stones of blood when they're on the top of the cliff.

That's pretty incredible.

The constantly moving sunset.

It's too much methane in the atmosphere.

Yes, I'm giving mine to Richard McMahon Smith.

He is the...

He is the designer on the Armageddon factor.

The set designer.

Yeah, we're just the designer, you know, not makeup or anything like that.

But season 15 really showed its budgetary limitations at times with things like the invisible enemy and obviously underworld.

But season 16 hasn't really suffered from that until maybe Power of Kroll, although that has, you know, like lavish location work.

[52:35]

Here we're stuck in a series of, as Todd pointed out, really very boring corridors.

And there's really nothing sort of remarkable or memorable about the production, really, to speak of at all.

I think it's a really drab way to end what has visually been a really fun and, you know, generally successful season.

There's a great moment on the commentary of the Armageddon factor.

This isn't my recommendation, but do listen to it if you can.

The Mary Tam, John Woodvine and Michael Hayes commentary.

I think at the end of episode 6.

Mary Turn says, well, that was almost as knackering as making the Armageddon.

Oh God, I love her.

I think she's on a 2nd commentary on it with Tom as well.

Because that was one of the ones.

That's one of the ones on the UK edition, which has 2 commentaries.

Okay, my pick for this season.

I was tempted to go with Big Finisher's key to time trilogy.

That's the number two, right?

That's the number two.

[53:36]

Please don't, because it's awful.

Oh sorry.

I quite enjoy it.

I understand why people don't.

It's very frivolous.

It's like shoving Peter Davidson into a bunch of season 17 stories.

So it doesn't...

What is it?

the premise?

The premise is that...

The time is back.

Yeah, when the doctor broke up the key to time.

Its work had not been done.

So he needs to go out and find it again, but instead of having...

Pete needs to go out and find it again and he's paired with a new companion who is a human tracer called Amy and she's also got a sister, Zara.

So we've got the A to Zed thing again.

It's all coming back to me.

It was a horrible nightmare listening to it.

Oh, they ended up going onto their own series called Graceless, which one several awards.

What, from Big Finish themselves?

Yeah, from Big Finish.

Won their own awards.

Yes.

No, no, not from...

Sorry, I set that up.

Simon Garrier, if you're listening, I think you're lovely and a very talented writer.

Yes, also, and also Lala Ward comes back in that. as the lord president.

[54:40]

So, um, They are good.

But what I'm going to recommend over that is the last Doctor Who work that Mary Tam undertook before she passed away.

She did a series of 72 parters with Tom and John Leeson.

I'm going to recommend one in particular, and that's the first one called the Auntie Matter.

And it's a pum, and it's the doctor in Romana, but particularly Romana, thrust into a PG Woodhouse, Jeeves and Worcester style 1920s comedy.

Wow.

Also featuring Julia McKenzie.

Oh really?

Really?

The Auntie Matter.

The Auntie Matter.

It's the only one I haven't listened to of that range.

Oh, for some reason.

I don't have it.

Yeah.

Do listen to it.

It's the 1st in...

I mean, they're all great because it's all Mary and it, the whole series really seeks to redress what Mary thought was a weakness in her character in that they didn't explore the fact that she was alien and she was psychic and she was incredibly clever and all the stories do that.

[55:51]

There's a story that pairs her up with Henry Gordon, Jago.

Of course.

And it also addresses the fact that, you know, she's a beautiful woman probably.

So there are several men over the course of the series who are interested and she just shuts them down brilliantly in each case.

So any of those are good, but the Auntie Matter is my pick from that range.

Well, look, I recommend Mary Tam in the Steelers from Safe from the companion chronicles from Big Finish.

She also does another one as well.

You know, it's just to hear more of her as Romana, just brilliant.

And both those audios are available for download from the big finish website.

The downloads are very affordable.

So, for instance, the antimatter, which is a full cast, one hour play, is $9 to download, Australian, and the Steelers from Safe, which is Mary Tam giving a tour divorce playing about 10 different people, is only $8 Australian to download.

I'm going to pick something a bit different.

[56:52]

One of my favourite websites is avclub.com, the Onion AV club.

So you know the onion, which is a sort of satirical newspaper, uh, that's published in America.

It's sort of terribly funny.

They have some companion insights and one of them is the AV club.

And I think the AV club is really some of the cleverest writing about, you know, TV and movies and things like that on the internet.

And so it's a place I go fairly frequently for news and things.

And they have for a while had someone reviewing classic Doctor Who.

And he stopped recently recently.

I'm not quite sure why.

And he was just going from story to story, you know, more or less at random, but having like an American website where a fairly insightful reviewer, and I can't remember his name, but I will put it in the show notes, you know, writes intelligent commentary on Doctor Who from a position of knowledge.

[57:52]

You know, that's that's pretty rare.

And one of the great things about the AV club is that the commenters are really funny and really clever.

So it's not one of those, it's not like a YouTube comment thread where you want to, you know, go and purge after reading it.

It's full of just really witty, clever people commenting on Doctor Who and so it's really fun.

They continue to review the new series.

I've just recently read a couple of those.

A friend of mine sent a link to me and I thought they were very good.

So, yeah.

But it's a good website generally, you know, not just for Doctor Who, but for just following any sort of pop culture, both English and American, so I can really recommend it.

Thankfully, dear listener, that's all the time we have for the Armageddon factor before we get locked in a time loop.

[58:53]

Thankfully, dearness, no, that's all the time we have for the Armageddon factor before we get locked in a time loop.

We will be back next week to discuss Destiny of the Daleks.

Todd, you will, of course, rejoin us 6 weeks later to discuss the leisure hive, which you look very happy about.

In the 1980s.

Yay!

Well, you are from 1980.

So Richard will be rejoining us for possibly the campus season of Doctor Who ever.

That's also taking into account later appearances by John Simm.

Until then, please check us out online at flight through entirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter.

And don't forget, over on Bond Finger.

We now have commentaries for Dr. No from Russia with Love, Goldfinger Thunderball, and you only live twice.

Until then, may none of your girads be 8 foot tall.

Thank you very much for listening and good night.

Good night.

See you soon.

[59:55]

That was flat through entirety.

Todd BLD, Nathan Buckman, Brendan Jones.

This episode, Holden Astra, was recorded on the 7th of November 2015.

The next episode will be released on January 17th.

We respectfully dedicate this episode to the memory of Mary 10 and her husband, Marcus Ringrose, who both passed away in 2012.

And that's including appearances by John Sim.

That's including any later appearance, that's, that's...