Thirteen and a Half Minutes

All right, now you can see we're recording. Oh, yeah, look at that. Look at the little sideways. the counter and then like a red, the international sign of recording. and sign waves. Yeah, that's right. So this is Victory of the Daleks take two. We've recorded an entire episode before this. And today is the day of my humiliation, the 31st of January 2021. Hello, Alyssa, and welcome back to Fly Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast Primed to Explode at the merest mention of the 1984 Doctor Who classic Resurrection of the Daleks. I'm Nathan. I'm James I'm Carl, and I'm just a cigar for this one. Oh, big it. An imperialist colonialist buttoned. And you know, probably a bit racist as well. Well, it's World War II. London is under constant attack, and the doctor's greatest enemies are about to return in a range of colours, each more Toyietic than the last. So all we can do is to stay calm and keep buggering on as we contemplate the ultimate victory of the daleks. This is every book colouring in book that gators grew up with isn't it? I mean, it is. We talked about Power of the Daleks previously on FGE, and we had a lot of fun with it, didn't we? We did. So this is him, obviously, going back and mining power of the Daleks for, and and I think to some degree, evil of the Daleks paradigms, progenitor. Yeah, that identity thing about are we Daleks or are we not? Are we lollies? Yeah, yeah, that's right. Are we mini coopers? So, Cole. Yes. Are you a Dalek man? I am a Dalek man. Particularly an Ironside Dalek man. I think they're gorgeous. I love the little Union Jack under the eye stalk, the army saddlebags on the side. I love that they're carting greens. should they? There should be an ethics cube calling. I feel like those things. your dad used to make when your mother was ignoring it. Pull up your Olympics, kids. And there's a lovely little figurine of them. I saw online yesterday where he had a little tray with a teacup. I thought that was really cute. And did it come with the extra vinyl Ian McNeese? That originally issued as a two-pack. You had to assemble it, I know. I have to wait for the reissue. I wish I bought it now. It's probably going to be huge after this podcast. Yeah, no. pounds and pounds for the meal on the interwips. I do think that Gatus gives the ironside some just utterly hilarious dialogue. And I do have at least one friend where every so often we'll turn to one another and go, you know, would you care for some tea? And there's some sort of a hilarious moment where Matt's wailing on one with a wrench and it says, um, you do not require tea, which I just think is absolutely spectacular. And it goes even further power of the Daleks, right? I think the Dalek offers someone, you know, a glass of liquid or something. Yeah, and the darlic carrying the military box file around is pretty fantastic. So we are back in London during the blitz, as we were way back in series one. How do you reckon this? uh, sort of version of London during the blitz dax art, Bridget. Well, I'm glad you asked. It does feel as if now Brexit had been not even disgusted at this stage. No, they've been discussing it ever. Honestly, it feels like a quality street assortment of what Brexit was going to bring back to us, wasn't it? Which is garage balloons, segues to dad's army offsiders, blowing raspberries. you know what I mean? Because if that little bloke in the ARP put those lights out, I think isn't Bill Pert, we would like to know what he... He's got a great Dennis Little moustache. I mean, imagine the mischief he could do to the Luftwaff with that. I've come away from this. At the time, I want to know what you and Coldford as well and James, I thought this is far too short for what it's trying to do. It was actually written, apparently, Gatus thought it would be 2 parter. And so there's a lovely backstory with the girl in the war room who is a lady of colour. Apparently none of them would have either got a job there apparently, because, um, and then he's on record for saying this. The prime minister despised people who were not white and said, you know, and was all about taking whatever money and rich resources he could get out of India before Britain moved out. And he's on record for saying it. So I'm not, you know, I'm not putting anything that you can't just read. So he's not the, he's not the grandfatherly historical figure that a lot of British people like to see. You know, he gets very, almost, as far as we know, no tolerance for people have come. No, he was terribly wasted. I need to get that out. Because he's so freaking cuddly in this one, isn't he? I think it's a problem. And, you know, we recently had Doctor Who do the partition of India from 1947, which I'm not. He wasn't prime minister there and he was leader of the opposition but he was a huge supporter of partition. And it did see, you know, maybe up to 2000000 people, and maybe 20000000 people displaced. But he was prime minister during the famine in Bengal in 1943 which may have killed as many as 3000000 people. And he didn't care. He hated Gandhi. Oh, he actually, yeah. Absolutely despised Gandhi and tried, in fact, in every way good to have him signlined. And in fact, you know, we don't know the actual details, but he was very much for putting Gandhi out of the picture. So Doctor Who can sort of deal with that, as we saw from demons of the Punjab, even though that's mostly the story of actual Indian people, and not of the British people who caused it. Um, but nevertheless, in spite of that, you know, he still continues to be regarded very highly, and extremely highly. He's the picture boy for Brexit. Well, because it's that mid-20th century post-war Britain that we were kind of harking back to. It's it's Churchill in the 66 World Cup. That's really the only things that Britain talks about. It is, um, you know, Gatis does nostalgia and and that's his thing but nostalgia is a problem. I think just sort of politically. Um, and maybe, I don't know, like what do you do? I mean, I think it's unpleasant to have the doctor be quite so chummy with him. I like better the way they're going to do it in the future, spoiler alert when the doctor meets Nixon. I think that was handled much more delicately. And I would suggest, I'm with you on this one, Nathan, but perhaps when the doctor does deal with born Doctor Who deals with politics it takes something more of the purple era's position, which was lovely sitting in a very comfy chair. You're not actually convinced he's taking sides, although you'll take whatever port the cigars are going around. Yeah, which is actually worse if you stop and think about it. But anyway. I mean, nevertheless, McNese's performance is great. spot on and cuddly and lovely. Yes, yeah. And he's a fun character and it's no surprise they have him back. Yeah, and you might argue this is a children's show and we need heroes. Yeah. That's why I think that it's not historically accurate, but it might have been the right choice to represent Churchill. sort of as that cuddly friend of the doctor, because it is a family show. And I kind of think that the grim and dark alternatives. They probably better suit like the Virgin New Adventures maybe or. Um, Do you think so, though? Because when Doctor Who does that and free ex-villains that are nuanced, I think we end up with a much more interesting story. Yeah, but how far do we go though? Do we make Churchill a villain? I mean, maybe more truthful. I don't know. I don't know that you could do that in a single part. The text is already too dense with this. And I guess we'll get to the paradigm Daleks, but maybe that shouldn't have been in this one. I do have a problem with it because it does align something important about Churchill that perhaps people should know about. Current Britain, when we look at what's happened recently and what was happening, you know, even at the time and the whip rush generation and how they were treated after this point. Oh, I think that Doctor Who handles this kind of thing very, very well. And actually always has, even in Billy's era, there are stories that touch on segregation. Savages is a great one. Yeah, yeah. So I think this is actually the place to discuss it because if anyone is going to get it. It's young people. Yeah. I mean, they want to have Churchill because that makes the show more excited. Have you saved the country? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and the end of last week's episode, that hilarious scene in the TARDIS on the phone where Amy's trying to narrow down who's called. Oh, it's the prime minister, prime minister of what? Which prime minister of Britain? You know, that's fun and funny. It's nearly a teaser for this episode. Actually, to be truthful. You didn't say the country during saving the country. That church will do nothing to help during when it was Turin's working on in your device that actually allowed the British naval forces to keep going those extra few months at that crucial point. So, and Churchill did nothing to help him during his scandalous incursions. If you if they ever reopen the borders again, go to Butchley Park. They've made it into a really interesting museum. We're touching on my picks of the week, this one. Now that we're doing picks of the week. This is one butter. We're doing a couple of things. if you love this story for the reason that I love this story and it is the nostalgia and it is the boy's own comic and it is all that. Spitfires and space bubbles. That's pure dandare. It's gorgeous Did you know that the man that created the Spitfire engine, the the bullet. Supermarine Spitfire engineer. The, the, Bill Dunn was Sheila Dunn's father. Oh, really? So, Petra, Petra, William's father. From your turno. Yeah. What? Yes, Dougie Campfield's bike. Came up with the Supermarine Merlin engine. Yeah, they're bulletproof. It had fantastic aluminium alloy. distance, it could go much, much faster and the heat distribution of using aluminium. How do we know this? Because with fan lawyers, that's how. And they could go into space. I mean, how ahead of his time is he... So we're in the cabinet war rooms, which I think have sort of been really quite well recreated. And if you, do you remember the Doctor Who Confidential? That where? I looked I looked to see if there was an episode for this one. I couldn't find it. So they still do confidential for series 5 and 6 and it's not quite the same as it was during the RTD years, but this one is actually Mark Gaze is in a very natty suit wandering around cabinet war rooms, isn't it? The real ones? Yes. Because I did read that he went there for research, yeah. I mean, they look really good. I think it's, it really kind of sells it, sort of smoke filled and full of action and stuff like that. And there are some kind of likeable characters, including Miss Breen, who Richard mentioned earlier. And there was going to be a whole other story about, you know, her it was being cocked very Bridgeton with her, her husband. Yeah. Well, so we get a little bit of that at the end. She actually gets told or hears, does she get a, she gets a, she hears that he's been lost in action. Yeah, they just got word or whatever. that he was shot down over the channel or something. It doesn't translate that well in the, in a one part of the, does it? Do you think? I mean, I kind of think we didn't even need to have it. I'm surprised it's still there. I mean, it doesn't go anywhere. No. Um, Ace's mother in Curse of Fenrich. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. But, I mean, the problem is that it doesn't go anywhere, it doesn't seem to have anything to do with what there's. I mean, what are they saying about the war? There is a, you know, there's a reading of it where you get Churchill prepared to sort of team up with the Daleks to defeat the Nazis. And it's super weird because the dialects are sort of Nazis anyway. And there aren't really, you know, we don't actually see Nazis or anything in this. But, you know, the idea is there, I just don't think there is because Gatus. But are we edging, you know, is there a possibility of a critique of the British war effort? You know, it's the war that the Brits won. So they get to say that it was a moral war and a great triumph, and obviously their enemy was unspeakably evil. But we do have, you know, the bombing of Dresden. We do have, is it a bit of a moral stretch? You say that we are also culpable because we used dialects. Yes. It might be, but I mean, no, no. But you can see, you see that, you know, that, is it making a commentary on the British? Yeah, no, I think probably, is it? I think it's just that we're really right back from Whittaker Daleks, I'm calling that because he's the one that actually made them interesting. Yeah, he's editing that makes them so fascinating. And so nuanced, Steve, back in the day, and not just, and you can see when other lesser writers get hold of them, and certain directors, like Terry Nation, and it's just that it is just, but with this one, it's like trying to drive the 69 Cooper up a hill. Speaking of the chase, which is why I needed to reboot. Yes, but, um, every little boy and girl thought watching these things, oh, they're just like single person tanks, don't they? That's really what they are. So I was just like, 0 my god, you've been reading my mind, my child mind, Mr. Ages. So it's this season, really, from his food, Mr. Moffatt, and his contemporaries is all about what to be loved most as a child. Can I just say my 1st drawing of Doctor Who, at the age of 9, was just a square with a head popping out of it, and it was the time that Crashland had been looked at from the bottom with these doctor's head pods? That's actually what in my drawing, I did that fat age. And so I love it that the 1st thing we see as a doctor is what a 9 year old imagined the most exciting thing the doctor could ever have was a crash land at times. So do you think that this sort of weird idealised nostalgic storybook version of Britney in World War 2? Is like just part of the theme of the season as a whole. I mean, it's an interesting choice. The Daleks in a World War 2 story, I mean, everyone, everyone knows how that they resulted as an analogue for the Nazis and it seems maybe a little bit too, um, I don't know. I see Gatus getting very excited with the idea of maybe getting a little bit carried away with himself. Could sort of see him going, ooh, Daleks and Nazis. Oh, World War II. Oh, Churchill. Oh. Yeah, yeah, he did that confidential. Yeah, it doesn't mean that. But it is the back page of a TV 21 colour by numbers. Do you remember that dalek stratagem board game, which was just snakes and ladders with a few diets withdrawn? One of the things. Yeah, I mean, that's all this actually is. I don't know that it even works on any deeper level, doesn't it? I don't think it's necessarily even trying to. But then again, it's Doctor Who. So even unwittingly, it always does touch on those things. Yeah. I think that it's a bit of a mess. It's trying to do a hell of a long 45 minutes. That's the, that's it. That's exactly it. And I think the 1st 13.5 minutes and I did actually count it, is actually really good engaging Doctor Who. Well paced, isn't it? For that 1st part, yeah. But then there's so much. There's so much they try and cram into the remaining sort of 28 minutes or whatever. I think it suffers for it. You know why, Paul, don't you? Why? Because that 1st part you just talked about is the original script of the 2 part. Yes. So this is what, I mean, I walked away thinking when I rewatched it the other day, yeah, like you say, like a two-parter could have been, it could be something like Better the Devil, you know, and stick with what we've got, or it could have actually benefitted from another part. Yeah, I agree. If we're going to have the paradigms, then it needs a 2nd part. Yeah, yeah. I think I'm on record as saying that this would make a good 2 parter is almost always a mistake. And what we would end up with is another 45 minutes of victory of the bloody dark. See, that's exactly right. And you could even sort of like mirror it to that sort of that dreaded part 3 filler from classic era. Is that what we would end up with? You know, you want it to be paced better, but would adding another part make it get paced better? Yes, because you get more doctor. Why am I here? Look, excuse me. Have we all forgotten the Daleks in Manhattan? Have we all forgotten just how wonderful a two-part Dalek in a historic setting can be? Thank you. I actually think that this is nowhere near as good as Staleks in that. It is. It doesn't have the... you know, I love this story. Yeah. I love this story. I'll be very happy to see it stretched out. We tend to not be saying it out loud, Mr. Gatis. you're not listening, but we don't tend to regard Mr. Gatis as perhaps the most profoundly rounded of the new era, right? He has a lane, and he does, he does in things like crimson horror and sleep no more. They're both wonderful. And he leaves that lane and does something interesting. But otherwise he is sort of fairly straightforward nostalgia. But I mean, that was always a feature of Doctor Who. You know, I actually forget what Doctor Who was lying. Yeah, sort of fitted this would have been the most exciting thing in a per preseason. Yeah, well, I mean, well, actually, it feels more trouted for some reason. Oh, yeah, thinking Hinchcliffe, because although it's Trout because it has Whittaker's Daleks in, at least for the 1st 13.5 years. And it's quite poppy, and Charlton was very much the pop-up doctor. But but Hinchcliffe has that obsession with the early 20th century. Like setting stories in the late 19th, early 20th century is what we think of as Hinchcliffe's forte. And, you know, strip mining old movies and things that we have nostalgia for... Charles Chilton's journey into space. Actually, there's some nods to this. to that, I should say, in this story as well. So what he does still belongs in Doctor Who, and is still a sort of valid expression of Doctor Who. But I do think that sometimes it's a little bit thin. And I think what's happened here. something has happened here. So the story because that 1st 13.5 minutes is great and we've got the Daleks being sneaky. We don't know what they're up to. I like that too. I think it's more scary than them barking orders, you know? Yeah, well, because everyone's sort of walking around the dialects completely unconcerned about their photos. Yeah, and we can see that look, we were long past needing the Daleks to be intelligent again. I'm so tired of being told, yes, yes. they can't even they shoot like storm troops. And they were like chopping trollies left out in the car. It worked really well in 1966. Why not do it again? Yeah. Well, no, I bet that's absolutely right. It did work well and I think it works well here. And I really like the doctor playing off them as well. We haven't talked about that since. We haven't talked about it. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And original viewing to current viewing of how we feel about that. So I didn't really rate. I thought that his performance, and particularly when he gets angry with the dalek to try and provoke it. I thought that that wasn't actually all that good, but I do, in retrospect, like it a great deal. I like it a hell of a lot more now than I did. Yeah, it actually works for me now. And it didn't when I 1st saw it. yeah. And that's the thing, right? Because there's been a lot of Doctor Who in the 10 plus years since this one would have aired. So for me, it's been a while since I've watched a bit of Matt Smith and I loved it. Going back and seeing how good he actually is. I hadn't forgotten how good he was, but just to see it again was like, oh, yeah, I love this doctor. I love Matt Smith in the role. For me, it's the way that he underplays it because Tenant, when faced with a Daleks, sores over the top. Um, and while Matt does get angry and, you know, like he has that scene where he smacks that one, um, with the red wrench. With the giant, giant wrench. But generally he pitches it quite low. And even when he has a flare of anger, you know, the next line will be delivered in a really menacing way, but in a really kind of low key way. And I think that all of that stuff is really great, up until the reveal, up until the Daleks reveal who they are, which is then turns into the back page of TB21. That's your 13.5 minute mark right there. Can we talk about the Freudian wrench and the Freudian cigarette? He does, because the wrench is the feminine of the cigar. as a female engine, not a male engine. That is actually how it's called. Right. Yeah. Yeah, it's gripping. Yay, patriarchy. Oh, yeah. Hardwares. Hardware wars. But yeah, it's Smith kind of had nowhere else to go with that. I do feel that, um, in the new era that the ninth doctor would have handled it absolutely stunningly and it would have been breathtaking. Tenant would have been all eyes and teeth. And this one is kind of somewhere in the middle. I would have liked to have seen Tom Baker do it. I think he would have only had a little bit of rush at the end because this performance feels very Tom to me. He has a way of saying things that are menacing without being while only being sort of very visually menacing in a very subtle way, I think. And this is clearly something written before his performance has been seen. And so it's, it was written before he was carved. Yeah, right. And so, and so, they don't know what his strengths are later on in the era later on in Matt Smith's era. They'll just write the sort of things that he's been successful doing before, and that's a bit of a shame because, um, you know, he kind of falls into a groove a little bit. But his own performance is so, so good all the time, I think. And yeah, yeah. So I mean, I really like that. I think Amy's pretty good in this as well. Really? I do too. I, I, again, watching them together. I thought, this is actually a really good doctor companion relationship. There's chemistry there. I don't think you get the same thing with Clara, for example. Um, I could even say that they're as good as perhaps Tom Baker and Elizabeth Slade? I don't know. What do you guys think? I tell you what, when Rory joins the crew in a couple of weeks time. You've got these 3 young people are all roughly the same age. They all get on very well. I think they all have great chemistry. And I really enjoy watching them. I can see her working in the margins in this one. I don't, that's what we've always said about Doctor Who. I like it when the actors are naturalistic and this Latin would have been totally believable and yet pulling the same faces. But with Karen, it's always so personal, isn't it? No, I can just see that she's, but it's just a little too disingenuous. It is nice that they play off each other and they certainly have a lot of personality and in fact facial traits that work together. And there's a beautiful moment because Moffat will always alume this with, you know, because he's a clever boy. And this goes back to, of course, the, um, to the imprinting of the raggedy doctor on a little, on the little girl. So she actually, you could say, has grown up with those memories and taken them on board as part of her own personality. I'd like to think it's that clever. I have to say, though, there is one misstep in their relationship and this comes in quite at the end, but let's just talk about it now, which is the hint that she fancies the doctor. Yeah, yeah. So when she's talking to Bracewell at the end. more about that later. Um, she just says something about fancying someone you shouldn't. And then kind of smirks. and then, yeah. Well, I think the camera looks at the doctor at that point. We get a shot at it. So it's not Jeff. It could be, Jack. It should be, Jeff. She's metaphorically winking down the camera though, isn't she? Yeah. Yeah, but she's winking at him. Do you know what I mean? Because she's trying to get some bonding thing happening. But yes, but, you know, I remember watching that at the time and thinking, oh, no, not again. And also, I think we're going to discover during the course of the season that there's something a bit icky about the choice to have her wanting to bone, you know, her imaginary childhood friend. Oh my goodness. That's Freudian. They could so easily have decided not to do. This is where plushies. So, let's go on to what happens after the doctor's testimony is accepted. Are we going to talk about the Volkswagens now? I think so. Very British. They're the Spice Girls. now If they're mini coopers, does that make the dollar operators mini drivers? I'm going to buy you. Oh my god. So we head up to Ed Thomas's tobacco factory. Yeah, I know. Fred Encounter with the Darlings. It works. It works. Get it? I really hate it so much. So there are pipes in the ceiling and it's like my office. You know what I mean? Like, it's not a thrilling fantasy science fiction space. It's my office. Brian Williams space in it. supply closet. Yes, he does. It's recording with Peter Tapes. Yeah, no, I don't like it at all. And then we get the Dalek paradigm things. Oh, the Dalek paradigm. Free gift with purchase with built-in Christmas LEDs. And honestly, you know if you open it up, it just contains the cheapest bottle of something nasty you'd never put on in your life. No, that's right. It really is the cutest little thing. You think, oh, it should be on a tree. What's it doing, you know? humidor. I mean, I have 2 plastic ones. one here and one at work. Are we talking about the paradigm dollars? I thought we projected the device. No, no. The progenitive device does, as you say, look like. Daleks of pleasuring. It's a love egg. Nathan, what colours? I just want to know what colours you chose to purchase for your 2 paradigm toys. So I think I think one of them might have been given to me as a gift. I have a an orange one and a blue one. strategist and scientist. Maybe. Yeah, because he always... Yeah, there was a thing, wasn't there? They were all ranked, weren't they, by colours? I don't know if buttercup yellow is my idea of eternity, but I suppose it's... I love the story that they tell in confidential about this. So Mark Gauge just came up with 4 names for, for the Daleks. And we couldn't think of a 5th, and so I suggested a journal, which means, I don't know. I think, to be fair, though, his idea was that you could decide what that meant. Do you know what I mean? Like that, that he wasn't going to impose that. It was going to be a bit of law that wasn't explained, and I'm absolutely all for that. And they aren't eternal either, are they? Because they never get used again. No, we do. So, the, I think they're re-sprayed and have their bum shaved off for a sign on the fadar, and then after that, you don't see them. Because I think they wreck one of the props, you know, when they have the stone dalek that's chasing them in the in the museum in the 2 part finale. And so I think that might have sort of taken care of one of the props. And when Doctor Who, the Problems came to Sydney, to the Sydney Opera House, Calvin bought me tickets, and I think we all went. Yeah, and I was sat in the front row. And so the Paradigm Dalek, you know, I think it was the blue one was going past, like directly in front of me. I could have reached out and touched it. and they're so tall and they're so imposing. and I think they look really fantastic in real life. think they're gorgeous. They look like something you want to play with, which is what the Daleks always were. Yeah, brought it back to the playground. And it is the nostalgia thing. I mean, they are very, very clearly wanting to hark back to the movie dialects, aren't they? That's what I think. I think it doesn't translate too well. I have a question. Is it a cracker or a clanger? I'm going with clangour. Wrong podcast. I'm going to say it's definitely a clacker. Okay. No, look, I want a clacker? I like them in a sense, but I think the problem is that the silhouette is all wrong. And so they're too spot. Yeah, they are the 5 door minis, not... Yeah, yeah, that's right. It's dumb countrymen. Yeah it is. And I was never popular with that one myself. Think about, let's compare them to the Dalek drones that were introduced in Revolution of the Daleks. Like my natural feeling about the Dalek redesign was, you know that sort of fan, the Todd reaction. you know, I don't like this at all. This is terrible. Where's the door? But I actually, I actually really grew to like them, and I think, I thought that they were really effective, and I do think the thing about them was that it didn't interfere very much with the silhouette. They were very similar. They were a bit smaller. and a little bit narrower at the top, but it still had that basic kind of, you know, a flat back and a sloped front and stuff like that. And they hadn't done that the previous year. I thought that the Dalekin resolution looked terrible, not just because it was made out of junk, because that was part of the story, but just they seemed to get the silhouette wrong. Whereas I thought these ones were fine. But however much I have a massive soft spot for, um, the new paradigm Dialects. I'm not sorry, but they didn't stick around. Also, they're meant to have wandered off into the Universe to go and take over and be marvellous and clever, and they also shoot anything that doesn't look like them. Yeah. The pretty box things. I thought that was actually a real nod too. I've taken over RTD. Yes, yes. Yeah, good luck. Wasn't there some, wasn't there some talk on set at the time? like, wasn't Moffat referring to series 5 as series one? Yes. This is something that Steve was telling me. Seriously, just yesterday. Yeah, you're right. one or 31. That's all he would allow. I mean, yeah, look, trip enough. That's probably just puppies. I think this world. They did it in Twim. Like Dwim renumbered it. Like that season. And they went, oh, actually, that's not a good idea. I mean, the other thing that he does, which is pretty daring is he I'm not going to say wipes out of continuity because those words have no meaning, but no one on earth can now remember the stolen earth and journey's end, which is merely sort of 4 episodes. They saw the doctor's crap. And his time crack. Yeah, yeah. I'm not gonna finish my thought there. Sorry. And like I've said before, that Moffatt likes Russell's Doctor Who and he does refer to it, and this isn't the last time that he'll refer explicitly to things that happen in RTDs, Doctor Who. Um, but yeah, I do think the optics of the Moffatt, Daleks shooting the, uh, RTD dialects into non-existence, uh, it's a very resonant. I do think that the ensuing scene is incredibly boring. Well, so once we have the reveal of the new paradigm dialect, ducks and runs away. Yeah, yeah. All of them. Yeah, that's terribly fun. That is so fun. But then we just get a long... They all turn their backs on him and watch the telly. I think that's my favourite thing about Matt Smith, Doctor, is very Trouton. Except twice the height. Very much so in this story. Although in China never really lost his temper either. I don't think it's a good idea for actors in this role to do that because it's bulgarized. You can always overplay it. I think Eggleston would have got it more right than any of them. And I think Tom would have got it very right. Billy would have also got it perfectly and just under pitch boys under pitch. But what else is Matt going to do? You got a bloody 12 inch wrench in your hand? Actually, 24 inch range. What are you going to do? Yeah, yeah. Wave it magically. so I don't think so. Gabby, it gives it an impressive while. He does whale on that thing. Oh yeah. I don't know. really goes for it. I think it's polystary, though. I wasn't worried. That ring was evidently lightweight. But I mean, the ensuing scene is really just now he's 5 minutes of the doctor and the Daleks explaining why we're introducing these new toy Daleks and what the testimony is and all of that. And I think, you know, like they managed to divide the dialogue up between the doctor and the Daleks because the doctor's smart. He deduces what's going on. But it does grind the stories or hold, I think. Yes, it does. And that's why again, I don't feel that this would have suffered from being a 2 partner. Maybe they didn't because what they saw from Daleks and Manhattan. Maybe they just, but that also had squid root head dialling, you know, speaking of Freud. Well, speaking of Whittaker as well. You know, humans and daleks. Yeah, exactly, the paranoid. I don't think you can go wrong with Doctor Who when you put enough thought into it and just go into the tertiary level of what this can mean. And Doctor Who, I feel, always fails when it treats itself too thinly, as if it's a kid show, and it always had done, right way back. In fact, I think the 70s, um, are actually more guilty of that. I'm not going to talk about script editors in particular, though I think the 80s is in fact trying too hard on some levels to be something that Doctor Who isn't. But you might sort of see that even in the 70s and very light stories. So, some Taran, um, invasion, but that 2 partner. where you could say that that's not really pushing the limits either. But of course it is because it's about human endurance and about community and how much we actually care for each other and what happens when compassion is discarded. Now that could have been, it really only needs a note like that in this story. I mean, you can see it's trying for that, but he's kind of like a kid that's just been given his 1st pianoism and he's hitting all the keys at once. Yeah. Well, I wonder too, whether if the Dalek redesign was imposed on them. It was. They've scooped out the middle of the story and replaced it with a sort of fairly long introduction. That stuff doesn't say anything very much. It's just merch. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's it. Yeah, that's right. Toy companies rubbing their hands. I think my favourite use of these new Daleks was on the cover of the radio times. During the 2010 election, they had a blue dog, a red dog, and a yellow dog. What does that say about politician? They were now mad monsters. Don't blame me. I voted for Kodos. Yeah, so it leaves the story not being about anything. Is that the problem? It's about comics. We know how much Gatis admires Neil Gaiman, and this is really trying to be what if Doctor Who had started as a graphic novel. Because I can't say comics anymore. But it has a feel of game and style to it without actually going into his depth. Yeah, I think it is very sort of service. I mean, I guess the closest thing that there is to, It trying to be about something is the scene at the end with the Braithwell robot. So do we talk about the love conquers all ending and whether it's a cracker or whether it's a clangour? do you think? I think it's a clanger. I think it's a tired... I'm going to say that the casting for this story is quite good in the sense. I like, I'm not sure who it is who plays Bracewell, but I do like him. He makes you, I felt for him. And also, in principle, the love conquers all ending is right. But writing wise, I'm not sure the plot is constructed well enough for it. Um, defeating hate with love is the right message, I think. But I feel like we've seen it touched too many times before maybe. And we are going to see it again. I think I think it's a little bit more complicated than just love conquers all because you remember that what the doctor tries to do is to get him to have human feelings. Yeah, and I want to talk about that too. Like how do you, how do you, how do you convince a bomb into thinking that it isn't a bomb? I just think it's Doctor Who and do you know what I mean? Yeah, you don't. But, you know, like the doctor gets him to try and remember his dead parents, like the 1st World War and stuff and it just makes it accelerate. And Amy, for the 2nd time in a row. Yes, yeah, actually comes up with a solution and she's the one who suggests it's about love. Yeah, that's right, once again. she brings in the murder unrequited blue balls. That's originally scripted. They were supposed to take him back to the little village post office. Oh, Yeah. How lovely that would have been. I would have liked a bit, but they hastily rewrote it because they could afford it. And to find Dorabella and explain why he's got wires hanging out of his wrist. And who the hell he is because... That's right. I mean, he probably sat behind her in English, you know, when they were nine. She probably wouldn't have any idea who it was. to go back there and find that the Bill Patterson character is married to Dora Bella. and then the poor... It's a dark replicant. Pamelia. Now that would be interesting. What happens to him maybe goes stays with the TARDIS for a week. Maybe he actually will be serious. Or like angel finding one moment of pleasure. Sorry. I mean, he does pack a suitcase and sort of head off at the end. But then he's back in the cabinet war room sort of for episode, you know, 12 or whatever. So I don't know whether that actually takes. Because Dorabella was an implanted memory, he probably didn't find her. Oh, that's so unromantic though. It's sad, yeah. There is one line that he's he's a copy that, you know, yeah. I think the diet's got the imagination to come up with adorable. Right. Yeah. Yeah, that he's someone else's stolen name. He can't stand the... Yeah, yeah. There's every all braceable up there. No, I but I agree. I think he is lovely. He's, um... Yeah, everything. The scene where they where they let him go. Yeah, and he's just, he's just so dim. You want to bundle in up and protect him, don't you? Yeah. And he's amazingly shredded once you get his shirt off. Like very metal as well. Taught. Very taught. Bronzed. I think there's also sort of evidence that something has been cut out in the middle because, like, I think that scene, that incredible scene, the, you know, jeopardy, the Daleks brilliantly can't blow the planet up or can't blow London up, so they just turn all the lights on. Like, I think that's tremendous. And then... Then, of course, we get the Spitfires attacking. Um, but how exactly, like, I hate people whose criticism of shows consists of, uh, you know, the complaint that the plot is full of whole. Or the science doesn't. Yeah, yeah. Who cares? It's Doctor Who. But I did actually, I found it sort of super annoying that we're told that the Germans are coming in 10 minutes. They've been spotted. Somehow they've managed to retrofit Spitfires with gravity bubbles 10 minutes. 10 minutes. Yeah. There's a little thing that sort of seems to be bolted to the back of the cockpit, like a flashing lights thing, which is clearly intended to be whatever the hell it is. Yeah. But, you know, the gravity bubbles thing seems to be, seems to be kind of paperwork when Bracewell kind of brandishes it. It doesn't actually seem to have been made. It's just an idea. And it could have been so easily fixed. All you would have had to do is have him something along the lines. Well, how long is it going to take to make this thing and he's go well, I've already got some prototypes and that's it. It's like, just come to my laboratory. Yeah, and and, you know, that sort of thing, you can head candidate or whatever, and it doesn't actually matter all that much, but it just looked to me like evidence that some story stuff had been kind of cut in order for the long paradigm dalek scene to kind of play out. Yeah. It does feel sandwiched in there, doesn't it? Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a bit of a front-end collision or I should say, a rear end collision of 2 stories. And then it's my 2nd story. And the 2nd story belongs only in a comic book. It doesn't really work on TV. Oh, it does, but not in a comic. Maybe it does work in the context of this. It's not making people's favourite story, but I actually really love it for, for the funness of it and it hits all the child spots. I think if you're 7, you're watching this. you gonna love it. Yeah, it is fun. It really is fun. I think that's absolutely worth remembering, speaking as people who've been producing a very, very long podcast about how tight. So, for Richard, this will always be the two part of it never was and so he has a pick of a week for us. Two for you. Young people. Um, if you love the feel of this, I would say, hurry along to radio 4, radio 4 extract, which is on the interwebs and free for everyone, Hut 33, which I might have mentioned before that has, uh big finishes Alexander McQueen as one of the Masters and our own Olivia Coleman, a lot of other great folk, and it's about Bletchley Park. It's about the wrong end. It's like Dan's Army said, Bletchley Park, and it's really, really funny. And the other one that I'm loving in the moment, which is on radio 4, is called Dot by Ed Harris, who is a terrific comic writer who's had great success at Edinburgh Fringe, and it stars our own Vanilla Woolgar. And Jane Slayton, who, of course, is a big Finnish 4th doctor companion, and is equally hilarious, and it's about the cabinet war rooms and the girls, and it's horrendous, and it's all about bigger fame, racism, sexism in the funniest, wittiest way. I really do think. Maybe this show would have actually worked better as an audio for the same reasons. You know, Nick gets it right. They're able to go far deeper into. Um, you look at their fantastic master's range with um, with Jacobi and just how great the character development is in those shows. Say it quickly 3 times and you'll get a dark paradigm spinoff series. Um... I like that won't stop Nicholas Briggs. Well, new listener, that's all we have time for this week. We'll be back next week for a quick trip to church on the planet Alpha from Matraxus in the time of angels. In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website, FlightForEntirety com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger and Jody IntoTara. Cole, where can people find you? Oh, well, you can find me over the pond at New To Who. We're on iTunes. We're on Facebook, we're on Twitter at Utahoo podcast. Also, email address, email us at Utahoo podcast at gmail.com. We don't get many. We're trying to record more episodes. It's been a little bit staggered lately, but um, yeah, we're still around anyway. Um, and there's a bit of a back catalogue there if anyone wants to jump in and have a listen. And also, I want to plug the wonderful Joe Ford, who is his upcoming podcast, Hamps, with a blunt penknife. I'll be jumping on there at some point as well, and look out for it because he's great. Until next time, please try and remember that while the power of love is not generally the most effective way of diffusing a bomb it is nevertheless a force from above, which cleans the soul. So make it your goal. Thank you very much for listening and good night. Good night. Good night. Good vending. That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, James Selwood, Paul Solito, and Richard Stone. Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. This episode, 13.5 minutes, was recorded on the 31st of January 2021 and released on the 28th of March. Today we announced the release of a series of plastic figurines of your favourite FDE hosts and guests, available in a range of colours and an upsettingly large range of sizes. Preorder them today, we can't wait to find out what you end up doing with them. All right, I'll put that at the end, but do we want, um, do we want, does anyone have a sort of final statement or something they want to say or a way of summing up where we, where we came to? Maybe that talk about it being fun is the way to end it. Yeah. Yeah. Because it is fun. Yeah, I think that's, yeah. And like, as Richard said, a 7 year old is going to absolutely adore it. And I think that's always important to remember with Doctor Who. Yeah, and the memories. It's about visual keys and they will stay in their heads and yeah. That's right And you want them to grow up with it, much like we all have. You want them to. I always think that people who complain that like the RTD era is full of set pieces. too popular. I haven't been paying attention to the best of Doctor Who for a start and haven't been paying attention to the way the Doctor Who is perceived. Do you know what I mean? Like as a series of like these amazing moments. How well did this do in the race? Oh, it's early in the season. Um, It got in the final rating was 7.82 million. That's not too bad. An appreciation to end up in 84. It came right behind Britain's got talent as number two, I think. In the week. No, it's his 4th most viewed program on the BBC and 11th most viewed program of the week. Okay, maybe the evening now. Maybe the evening. All right. Okay. Well, I'll do a, uh, the outro.