His Nebrox Moment

Hello, Delissa, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety. The only Doctor Who podcast that really knows where its trowel is. I'm Nathan. I'm Brendan. I'm James. I'm Fiona. Well, we've rounded up a gang for some reason, and we're off to investigate a giant spaceship hurtling towards planet Earth, as usual. It's all fun and games until David Bradley murders a Triceratops in dinosaurs on a spaceship. I'm going to nail my colours to the mask straight away and say, I really like this episode. Am I wrong? Yes. Am I a bad person? Yes. No, I quite enjoyed this one as well. I enjoyed it at the time and have enjoyed it on each viewing since coming to it with a slightly more critical eye this time, I have questions, but we'll get into those. Okay. Are they about Brian's balls? Oddly no. So we start, I think, in a very odd way, which is the getting the gang together, like a heist movie or something. We're doing that. How do we think that works as an idea? Yeah, it was a little bit strange. I'd actually, because I only rewatched it this morning and I'd had actually forgotten that bit about how they got everybody together. No, I think it was okay, but it was a bit kind of... The bit where they get the ponds is beautiful. I think that's really, really great. And I also like the fact that my 1st impressions with Queen Nefatiti and Matt. She's got him up against the TARDIS kind of, you know, being very very forward and I like the way he's, he's not doing the, oh, I'm sort of sexy kind of the doctor back. He's just kind of like, oh, ha, ha, doing the whole sort of, oh get me out of here kind of thing. Yeah, which I, which I think is great. I think it would be a bit if he kind of got all sexy back and went hey, you know, hot woman, this is great. I'm, I, sexy. I think that would be a bit, but because he's playing the whole never seen a girl before kind of line. This is a bit awkward. I think that works really well. It's quite funny. I think Russell's doctor is sexually confident, surprisingly, and Moffatt's isn't. And I think that, you know, that's basically it, isn't it? Which is surprising. Yeah, you would expect it to be the other way around. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's right. But I mean, if you think about Eccleston, perhaps the only time that we really talk about sex with Eccleston is in the 2 episodes that Moffatt writes, and he's a bit awkward about sex in those. I mean, I'd also say Jabe. Yeah, they're totally cross-pollinated. Oh, no, he's super confident with Jane. That was my 1st impression when you said that comment was, Jabe. Yeah he's very confident in there. Yeah, he's definitely a man who has experience. And obviously, tenants doctor is insufferably sexually confident. There is the, you know, still got it, sort of thing that he always has, that sort of feeling. And Matt always reacts like this to being hit on, which I think is delightful. Yeah, I love it. means that it's kind of okay. I will also say for his doctor so far, kisses have generally been bad news. So like Amy kisses him and he immediately knows that he's almost broken up a wedding. Yeah. River kisses him and it's like 1st time for everything and a last. River kisses him again because he's on the edge of death. Well, River kisses him again and kills him and then kisses him again and brings him back to live. And then kisses him again and the universe reboots again. He's probably expecting the whole pyramid to come down on top of that. Yeah, that's fair enough. Euphemism and a half. Yeah. And then we get the very, very, very beautiful Rupert Graves as Riddell, and he's really fun as well. Yeah, yeah. There's something... Because all of that's played for kind of screwball comedy. It does have a very moffity feel to it. It's a little bit like getting the gang together, you know, a demon's run. It's kind of a thing that we've sort of done before, but it's absolutely played for laughs. And I think it does an important job of establishing that the doctor has relationships and friendships with other people, which is important thematically, I think, here. Yeah, I really love that once they've gotten to the Indian space agency, which I remember in 2012 thinking, of course, that's a brilliant idea. Because you think it's the international space agency because it's the ISA, right? Yeah. And incidentally, I think the main the main prerequisite. Well, the secondary prerequisite for working at the Indian Space Agency, the main prerequisite is, of course, that you know about space stuff. The secondary prerequisite seems to be that you have to be really hot. Yeah. All the men and women in the Indian space agency are really noticeably hot and, you know, it... Sorry, distracted. But the thing I love in that scene is the doctor and Nefertiti have been travelling for a while together because he calls her nephew and she knows about screens and what have you. And it's actually a lovely bit of shorthand from a writer who sometimes overwrites character explanations. And so I thought that was absolutely lovely. I think Indian Space Agency, in retrospect, turns out to be classic Chibnol, doesn't it? He's showrunner when we have our 1st story set outside Europe since what, the Aztecs or something? So, so, so I think the Indian Space Agency is very cheap, Milly and it is really good because it gives us the chance to have some representation, and we get the gag where we think initially ISA is International Space Agency, it turns out to be Indian. And they're really great. There's that wonderful line, isn't it? Because he brings Nefatiti to the ISA and the woman there says we're going to fire missiles at the ship. And he says, oh, I really liked you until you said the word in his eyes. She's fabulously talked to her. Chicken, I think, can do comedy and we will see that later this season, won't we? Well, there's some great comedy moments throughout this episode. Yeah, I think so too. In fact, primarily, I think what it does is just be a hilarious romp with dinosaurs. It absolutely does what it says on the tin. So I just think it's terrifically enjoyable. So you did get the title wrong at the beginning of the episodes. It's dinosaurs. On a space? Yeah, yeah. That's what we say leading into the credits. I noticed there was a comment there in the subtitles when I was watching it before. Should have been an ellipse. I feel like that's one of times where, you know, you can accuse Chris Chipnall of overwriting, but this is one of those occasions where no one else would have done anything different. No, you had to do that. That's happening. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. But doesn't Matt just perfectly encapsulate exactly what's going in your inside your brain when you read that title for the 1st time and you just have that childish reaction going dinosaurs on a spaceship and he just like... He's just articulating exactly what all of us are thinking because I mean, every who didn't love dinosaurs when you were a kid and you still do love dinosaurs. I mean, yeah, you couldn't get much nicer than that dinosaurs and a spaceship. And it reminded me a little bit of his bit in the 1st episode back in that season where the last season where he puts the helmet on with the space helmet and he's like, look at this cool stuff. The Impossible Astronaut. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, he finds that with a NASA gear and puts it on and he's like, oh, this is so cool. Like just geeking out and you're like, yeah, I'd do the same thing if I was there. Like, that's what you'd want to do is like put try it on and see what it looks like. Yeah, have fun. Well, I think it's one of the best things about Matt is how much he enjoys himself, like how much he loves his staff. I did that at the Kennedy Space Museum. Oh, did he? You put the thing on? Did Karen Gillen shoot you in the head? And you said thank you. You know, this is a great shot. Now, this is something I've read, and I'm not sure if this was a stage direction or if this was dialogue that was cut out of the script, but apparently, according to the script, Brian, when he sees the dinosaurs, believes that Rory and Amy have drugged him and taken him to Alton Towers, which is a theme park in the UK and that he was going to start wittering on about, you had to drug me and bring me here because I hated it so much the 1st time and I got sick on the road. Okay, I'm running. He is like absolutely incredible. So we have actual Mark Williams from Red Dwarf, from Red Dwarf. Harry Potter? Yep, yeah. about that anymore. Father Brown. Yeah, yes, yes. Yes. 10 seasons. He's magnificent. He's so great and he's so much your dad as well. I know. He was great hosting the Doctor Who symphonic spectacular. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. He did that with... Alex King. That's right. Sydney yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, he is just so tremendous. And so the doctor materialises around him, which I just think is terrific. And Rory's reaction, like, why can't you phone ahead like a normal person? Yeah, it's like the doctor picks up Riddell and it's nice enough to park the Titus a safe distance away and come along and sit down and, hey, how you doing? With Amy and Royal. They'll want to come. What can they be doing that's more important? Of course, Matt, doesn't know you. The doctor doesn't notice that he's picked him up until afterwards. And then and then he goes, oh, you thought I was stupid. You thought I wouldn't notice, which is precisely what he did. But he knew his name. He caught him Brian. Did you notice that? He called him Brian. Not Rory's dad. He says Brian. Yeah. I think that here's the thing that we obviously don't care about which is that we didn't see Rory's dad at the wedding and Rory's dad doesn't know who the doctor is despite his spectacular appearance at the wedding. And I think at this point it's just like, ah, who cares? You know, we had to explain... We had to explain why Bernard Cribbins wasn't in the runaway bride. And we sort of did that, but what did it had Spanish flu or something? Yeah, yeah, something stupid. And so now we're just not even bothering with that at this point. No, we don't care because we've got Mark Williams and his wife. Well, exactly. What if they said, oh, well, we can't have Rory's dad in that because it would introduce a continuity error. So call Mark Williams up and tell him he's not needed. I kind of wish you'd been playing this Olaf Peterson. Yeah, not a pocket full of golf balls, a pocket full of lager cans. I developed a bit of a theory watching this and I was just kind of watching it go. And because Brian narrates what he's going through all the time I'm riding a dinosaur. I'm flying a spaceship. I can say... And I kind of went, well, you know, that's something Chris Chibnell does. He often has characters saying what they're doing in disbelief. But then I thought, hold on, is he Chris Chibnall? And then reading a bit like Christian. Reading an interview, Chris Chipnell says, I'm afraid that I am Brian, or at least that's what I will turn into, and that's where the character came from. It's like, yeah, exactly. There's that moment at the very end where Rory is fixing the light fitting and he also comes to the conclusion that it's the fitting another bulb and then like, 0 my god, I'm turning into Brian. you know I think it's just perfect. he'll come up later in the season. And perhaps if anything, be even more magnificent, I think. And I just think the bit where he's injured and Rory is treating him is one of the emotional highlights of this 1st half of the season. And it's a really emotional 1st half of the season with Amy and Rory's relationship, but it's just really brilliantly underplayed. And there's been this subtle thing throughout of Brian's sort of dissing Rory because he can't repair a light fitting. He doesn't carry a trowel, you know, put it on your Christmas list. But here there's just that quiet moment of respect of, oh, okay, no you're good at other things, which I think for children watching at home is probably a very sweet moment if they're into something say, like Doctor Who, that their parents might not be. But also like something which is misogynistically typically considered to be a female industry. Yeah, yeah. has at times in the scriptwriting of this show been used to emasculate him. Yeah. As a joke. Yep. And then played against. That's actually a really powerful message to say to kids. Like especially young, young boys, you can do this job. It doesn't make you less for man. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's good. That's a really good point. Yeah. There's something about adult children as well. that our parents don't necessarily understand what it is that we're good at and don't get the opportunity to see us doing that. And so I found that quite affecting as well. You know, and it, yeah. Yeah. Uh, same. I related chat really heavily because um, for starters, like, you know how, like, I'm into horses and riding and all that, like, my parents have virtually never, ever watched me ride kind of thing like, they've just, and even when they come, the rare occasions where they come and stay with me, like, I go and ride and they never come and watch sort of thing, and I kind of, part of me wishes they take an interest, and then for work a couple of times a year, I get to do PowerPoint presentations of my research in front of people, and I had to drag my son along recently kicking and screaming and I literally got quite upset. I said, can't you, for, you know, just one time a year, be proud of what I do? Like, you know, like just, I want you to come and like just go, mom is cool, you know, because I... Yeah, and I but it was really like for me, it was a really big deal for him to actually be in the audience and for me to kind of show my stuff and go, hey, this is what I'm good at, baby. Like, yeah. So it is a big, it is a big thing. Yeah, it's a very Doctor Who thing, I think, to have that family relationship moment being caused by like a big stupid robot on a giant spaceship and stuff. You know, the setting is absurd. But there's a little moment of kind of real human connection there which I think is terrifically good. Love it. I'd like to say something about Riddell, because the 1st time watching this series, Like this series was publicised as we're doing a feature film every week, and you sort of get swept up with that. But this time watching it, I'm like, why is the doctor such good friends with a big game hunter? Yeah. And I thought that's really weird. that has been brought up. Yeah, and Amy refers to that in the dialogue too. Doesn't she? Because she says like, you know, when he's being a bit misogynist and sort of going, like, I don't take orders from women and all that and she said, well, you know, you're just some twat, who, who shoots to poor defenceless animals, you know, why would I respect you kind of thing? Yeah. So she totally stands up to him. Yeah, well, when when he says, I don't take orders from women, I think Nefertiti responds by saying, well, learn. You know, like... But notice that by the end of it, he and Nefertiti are together and they're both using the tranquilliser stun guns on the animals by the end. So he learns not to be a big gamer. And that was his idea too. That's the thing, isn't it? The doctor makes people better. Yeah. Yeah. It's the getting a character who is flawed and making them become a better person. Yeah. But not totally changing who he is. So he's still, you know, he's still hunting. What I found interesting when I read up on his character was that much like Nefetiti, this character was originally going to be a real historical figure. Ah okay. And he was going to be Charles Buffalo Jones, who was Buffalo. A buffalo. In America, in the 1800s. In the Wild West. In the Wild West. Yes. And he initially started out hunting Buffalo, but then realised what wonderful creatures they were and worked on both preserving and conserving them and the possibility of crossbreeding them with cattle to make a hardier cow, which basically didn't work. The offspring couldn't reproduce, and they were just as wilful as the buffalo with no domestic qualities. Oh, so like mules? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And the reason that was scuppered was this was being filmed with a town called Mercy and would have gone out back to back and Moffatt said, I'm sorry, Chris, we can't have to, we can't have 2 Wild West characters in a row. Yeah, so in choosing Redell and choosing for him to come from 1902 Chibnell's view was, let's take him from the end of that part of the empire. So he's on the way out anyway. So he has to change. And again, it's not overwritten for once. No. Yeah. No, I mean, and he's mostly played for comedy. Like he is, you know, charming and pretty, but absolutely inappropriate all the time and he's constantly being lectured by both Nefertiti and Amy. And, you know, it turns out okay in the end. I think it's, I think it's all right. I have heard people object to him and particularly to him ending up with their fatigue when he's been so kind of relentlessly awful all the way through. But I think he does learn. and I think he does get better and it's Rupert Graves and he's charming as hell. I almost didn't recognise him, not an EM Forster. Well, it's Freddie. He'll be in Sherlock, yeah. Yeah, he is super pretty. Freddie in A Room with a View, Helena Bottom Carter's Little Brother, and he's... was so attractive. Oh, he's so gorgeous. That's where I 1st... Floppy hair. Yeah, he was... Yeah, very loveable. Very loveable. Yeah. I didn't have a problem with him ending up with Queen Nefertiti at all because I think because she was, she's obviously very sexually confident and he is as well. And so it wasn't like, you know, he was either seducing her or kind of throwing himself on her, like we had the other bit where it is, sexual harassment with, um, David Bradley's character who's just repulsive. Yeah, Solomon, the, um, where it is basically, like, there's all this stuff about, you know, rape and and definitely, you know sexual assault that's really quite dark and horrible. And Matt, at one stage, you can see on his face, he's just repulsed by this character. Like, but he, he's got that thing where he just wants to just kill this guy, but he can't at that stage. He can't do anything about it. Um, but she's, Yeah, she's obviously confident in herself. So for her ending up with redoubt at the end, it's like a partnership. They like equals. I don't have an issue with that at all because it's something that she's chosen to. Whereas when Solomon takes her. very much against her will, but she's brave enough to make that sacrifice because she feels that it will save the others. So, very powerful woman. And and then free herself as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's the one that she attacks him with the crutch. Yeah. Yeah. It's not the doctor rescuing her. No, no. That rescue underwent many changes. Right. So initially, uh, the doctor was going to sort of push Neffi out lock the door and he was going to be, I'm going to stay on the ship with Solomon because, you know, that's the thing to do. Then there was a version where Nefi pushed the doctor out and said I will make sure the missiles hit us because, of course, Nefiti kind of disappears from history in real history. Okay. And then the doctor was going to land the TARDIS around them and Stephen Moffatt said, no, it needs to be a bit more proactive than that. And so Stephen Moffat and Chris Chip altogether, came up with, well hold on. She is the queen of Egypt, she can fight. We've seen that this episode. Why doesn't she take him out, and then the doctor does the science y stuff, and then they both leave. Yeah. And I think that ending is perfect. And I'm someone who has complained a lot about the last few years of Doctor Who where the doctor just seems to let the villains wander off. And here we have the doctor leaving David Bradley in the spaceship that's going to be hit by the missiles because he's put that dodecahedron thing there for the missiles to home in on. And I think it's great. It is great. I wanted him dead and I wanted the doctor to do something. And he says beforehand, he says, did the Siderians beg you to stop? you know. And one of the things that Chibill does too, is he inadvertently sometimes includes things that are utterly, utterly horrible in his stories without really kind of addressing them. So for example, does the dog die.com in episode 6 or whatever of flux. So we have 7000000000 dogs die off screen and sort of nothing really comes of that. I think Carbon is to house and then we all get on with our lives. Here, he does address the genocide of the Silurians, that David Bradley and Mitchell and Webb have systematically killed 1000s of Silurians. And so he makes us feel that. And I think once he kills Tracy. That's it. You know, he kills it is another... That was unforgivable. Yeah, does the dog die.com again. You know, he just shoots the triceratops. That was a... That was a lot of dogs. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm super on board with him just leaving him to be got by the missiles. He deserves it. But how one, please, does Matt play it as well? Because he's very calm and measured. He's not at all hysterical about it. And I was sort of thinking about, you know, with a bit about like oh, did the Silurians beg for mercy? I was thinking of Christopher Eccleston's confrontation with the Dalek, you know, when he was torturing the Dalek, and he's just that little bit at that stage, he is a bit hysterical because he's very much wounded and he has that, um, you know, like, ah, little you know, you know, and whereas now he's just very calm and measured and just said, you know, you've done something awful. Think about it because, yeah. And it's just like he just draws that line and says that's it buddy. you've you had your chance. And, yeah, um, but he's, he doesn't make it, he doesn't. I imagine tenant playing that. Oh, it would be all kind of... Yeah. behind him. Yeah, giant teeth. slow motion. Did they beg for mercy? Tell me. In a sort of metatextual way. I think the other reason Solomon has to die, and I'm going to be on record as saying it's absolutely brilliant, and I remember in 2012 sitting there going, ooh, yeah. And I'm like, no, I like this. In a metatextual kind of way, everyone else in the story is heroic and a bit funny. Even the robots are kind of comedy robots, and they don't actually want to hurt you at all, and when they don't succeed in hurting you, it's just, oh, we definitely used to be faster. You know, and they're really funny. Whereas Solomon is almost a new adventures kind of villain. And it's almost like the script is going, well, no, you don't belong in the Doctor Who universe. Bugger off. We're having fun with dinosaurs. you. Excuse me. And yeah, he just doesn't fit in that way. And in a way, it's good that he doesn't fit because the scene where he's asking the doctor to treat him. And the doctor, you know, kind of charmingly says, well, you know yes, I'll happily treat you like, how about you tell me about what you're doing on this ship and Solomon's response is immediately shoot one of them. Yeah, injure the older one or something like that. It's really. Yeah, and it underlines, okay, this is not your, this is not a fun Doctor Who villain. Like, I would say he's possibly more ruthless in execution than Madame Cavarian who is at least having fun with what she's doing. Yeah. You know? But it's such a brilliant performance from David Bradley. And it's sort of amazing that this is his kneebrock's moment where Stephen Moffatt goes, hey, you'd be good as William Hartnell. He would definitely shoot people in the face. At least hit them over the back of the head with a rock. Apparently he's just the nicest, sweetest, cuddliest guy in real life, but he just plays this. He's made a, you know, a career out of playing repulsive characters. like he's just always, always, even the 1st doctor. I shouldn't say that. It's almost a Harry Potter reunion. Yeah. I think the one problem. And again, it's a typically chibnal thing is having our acquisitive, money hungry person given a Jewish name. Oh, I didn't pick up on that. It might have been. Yeah, I think it might have been better to go for a space name. I think it is a bit unfortunate. Yeah, I was so good at that. space name. He is a cheap little space name. Now, I have heard that objection to this episode before. And something that struck me was the director is Saul Metzky. Yeah, yeah. And so not only is he of Jewish heritage, but his father, Izzy Metzstein, was in Berlin in 1938 and he and his 4 siblings, their mother got them out of the country, sent them to England and joined them and they settled in Scotland and that's where Saul was sort of brought up as well. And so I have to think that if that consideration was there by the production team, You do at least have a Jewish director. Yeah, someone's voice was heard about it and clearly he was okay with it. That doesn't mean necessarily that it's okay, but certainly, you know, like it's something on which people might differ. I think. Or possibly it's because of the connotations of the name Solomon. Yeah. See, you see, I heard the name Solomon and just thought we're juxtaposing with the traditional wisdom of the character and taking it to a ridiculous extreme of what if he actually meant cutting the baby in half and just saw it as a possession. We actually talked in last week's episode a little bit about how the doctor disappears himself from the database at the very end and noticed that he's not there in Solomon's database. So Solomon has a database because of course he does that lists everything in the whole world and how much it costs, but it doesn't include the doctor somehow. I also like the feint that you kind of led to, oh, I don't know where you found it. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You think he's going to say... Yeah, I thought it was the target. Dehumanising her. referring to her as a thing. It yeah. And and then it turns out it's Nefertiti and it's like, oh, this guy is real piece of work. I mean, we already know by that point that he's cremated genocide I think. Yeah, yeah, we know he's spaced to the soilureans. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, speaking of solo ins, it just popped into my head. Amy says, scan for homo reptilia. That is so great. Yeah. She has to be in the doctor. New wrong name every time I appear. Yeah, we do know that straight up Solomon's Solomon's a nasty piece. And I agree with you, James. I totally thought he was after the Tartars. You know, that kind of makes sense. And it makes you wonder what else Oswin deleted last week. Yeah, yeah. Because the Daleks don't react to the TARDIS last week either. Like, they don't say, oh, that's a, you know, even if they've forgotten the doctor, they probably remember the time war, maybe. But that's how Lurian we see on the screen in line with the last time Chibnall wrote them. So he had Restack, who was a tribute to Terence Dix. Yes. We had Malocare, who was Malcolm Malcolm Hulk. This solar in name, never mentioned dialogue or written, but in the script, he's Blatell. He's Barry Letts.. But yes, he is played by Richard Hope, who played Malakare. And that was in the script. Oh, because he's like part of the same gene thing or whatever. Yeah, they have. thought he was really good. I should work out our Sillyrian names. Like we should... We'll get back to you. Yeah. So like I was kind of delighted the Silurians were involved because when you have the sort of dinosaurs on a spaceship premise. I do think that we were kind of immediately thinking, what the hell is this going to be? And of course, giving the Silurians the ability to travel into interstellar space, like, okay, well, whatever, who cares? Like they certainly didn't have that in the original conception but why not? Some of them hibernate underground and some of them head off into space. And so you get those really nice elements of the design, like all of the vegetation and stuff everywhere. And the spaceship itself looks absolutely incredible, doesn't it? And so does David Bradley spaceship. Like those effects look just amazing. I love the fact that even in a prehistoric era, the Salurians were environmentalists, they used wave technology. Yeah, spaceship, they have a giant ocean and beach which generates the energy for their spaceship. That's a really fun, cool concept. There's a bit forest in the middle. Yeah, in the middle of the Byzantium. Yeah, yeah. And it gives us a chance to go back to that location again. There's there's roses... Is there another beach in Wales? There's got to be more than one beach in your house. I mean, it's a very beautiful beach, but yeah, it's stunning. It's a stunning beach, but every time you go there, you're like yeah, bad one, mate. Around this time this episode went out, actually. I was staying with my friends, Ed and Die, because I was sort of doing a farewell tour before I left the UK. And they took me to that beach. It's not that far from Cardiff. I think it was less than an hour's drive. Could be longer. My geography is terrible. But they did take a photo of me at the top of the cliffs. I just sort of got close and looked down. And then Ed's very good with Photoshop and he Photoshopped a drashing. I've seen that photo, I think. Well, in fact, that scene is very carnival monsters, isn't it? Because they're in this environment inside a big machine and they run into a cave to escape the monsters that are attacking them. Like it does have a real proper sort of kind of monsters vibe, I think. And I will say something, and this is something very silly. I noticed, like when they run into the cave, there's a close-up of Brian and there's a join line in the rock behind him, a very vertical join line. But I went, no, hold on. This is allowed to be fake. It is fake. This is fine. Did you wonder why, because I was sort of thinking, surely Amy and Rory have seen Jurassic Park. And, you know, they've seen where they, with all the velociraptors is it velociraptors? Yeah. Like these little... Yeah, they were bloody scary in Jurassic Park. I was terrified. I went to see that with friends of the podcast, Pete McTie and Paul Masters when it came out. And we were all really, really scared. And those were nasty. So if you had actually seen Jurassic Park, and then you came across and you were like, you'd be like, whoa, you'd be really like, this isn't just a bit of fun, like with a gun. Yeah, just shoot a dinosaur, shoot a dinosaur. You'd be like, oh, I don't, I'm out of here. Yeah, these are nasty little. It's all the same CG models that they use in primeval. Oh, okay. How come? Because primeval's ITV. Yeah, it's the mill. Ah, the mill did the... They own the they own the CG model. Ah, I mean, it's a mixture of puppetry and CG models, isn't it? Well, apparently the only practical dinosaur was a large section of Tricey. jump on. But isn't the, isn't the, no, there is a practical puppet, which is the sleepy baby T-Rex, which they walk over. definitely a puppet. I did think that was a prop, yeah. Yeah. I mean, the puppetry is really great. Often the often that dinosaur, you know, when they're riding it and stuff, it is CG and then they've got the puppet so that it can kind of leak Brian's face. It's so crazy. It's so good. His face is covered in swarf eager and he's kind of going, I want to go home. It's tremendous. It's actually, um, that, so yes, they're writing a puppet. but most of those scenes are then see, like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. CG mapped onto the... Yeah. For the motion shots to cover that it's more just that you want the reference material, so you can get everything exactly right. I could tell you too that as somebody who rides horses, there's no way that you would be able to sit on the back of that triceratops without falling off. I love Matt going, how do you start a triceratops? And then him looking for the brakes later on. So good. Matt Smith does actually say in confidential. Yeah, this is very, very different and bumpier than riding a whore. Even just like the prop on wheels. I mean, that thing is so much fun. And, you know, we have a fantastic dinosaur story already in Doctor Who. But, you know, the puppets are absolutely lamentably terrible. If only they could get the CG models from this and use them to do the special edition of Invasion of the Dinosaurs for this series. Oh, sorry. Yeah, 11 Blu-ray. Yeah. Get on it, Pete McKay. But look, before he passed away for the Time Warrior DVD, which had new effects. Barry let's turn to the animator after seeing the new effects and said, so about invasion of the dinosaur. Barry wants it to happen. I think it should happen. It should happen. I mean, I just think they're so fun and so effective. They're incredibly good. And, you know, there are moments where you kind of think... Well, I mean, they look like special effects and of course they do. But they're hero special effects. They're ones that you're supposed to look at and go, this is an amazing effect and they really work. So let's see, what do we have? We have Angleosaurs at the beginning. Baby T-Rex. A whole gaggle of velociraptors. Yep. Pterodactyls. And triceratops. and triceratops. Yeah, you know, 5 kinds of dinosaurs. And Chris Chibnall, Caro Skinner went into the mill and had a discussion and an interview about, okay, what kind of dinosaurs can we actually have? And that then worked its way into the script. Fiona, would you like to describe to the listener what your whole card? Is this Tri-C? It's Tracy. It's a, um, it's one of my dog's toys, but it's a little, it's it's nearly as cute as Tricey, the dinosaurs on a spaceship Tricey. It's kind of a miniature version. A miniature version with kind of... I think so, yeah, in the show notes, I think. But yeah, Tracy, unfortunately, has an injury. Not a laser gun to the head, but a chewed horn. One of his 3 horns has been... called Solomon by any other. No, no, Albert. One thing I'd like to mention before we go is it's been 10 months in universe since Asylum of the Daleks, which in itself has to be a few months after Wedding of River Song, and between those, you've got the doctor, the widow, and the wardrobe, where they hadn't seen him for 2 years. Yeah. So if we assume the Wedding of River Song is late 2011. So then Christmas 2013 is Dr. Widow on the wardrobe, that scene. We are approaching Christmas 2014 in this episode, at least, if not early 2015. So Amy and Rory have lived through cybermen rising from the graves while a strange Scottish woman floats over the parasol. You know, I really, really like this. And we said last week, and again, in this episode, we've talked about how this is supposed to be like a series of movies, but it does have an arc, and the arc is that Amy and Rory might not need the doctor so much anymore. And it's beautifully done in Power of 3 where Amy actually does do the maths, doesn't she? And or Rory, one of them does the maths and says, you know, I think we're probably 5 years older than we should be or something like that, you know. But the distances between their meetings with the doctor are being spaced out. And I think the doctor's aware of it because there is that absolutely stunningly beautiful scene where Brian is sat with his legs dangling out of the TARDIS door, looking down on earth drinking tea from a thermos and having a sandwich. And that's beautiful because we've been told that all that Brian does is go to the shops and plays golf. He doesn't like travelling. And then, yeah, you have to hang a lantern on that with the, let's have lots of photos of him and postcards. Oh, but that's a beautiful ending. We'll get to that in a second. But the point I wanted to make here. is that Amy and Rory are looking out onto earth and smiling and the doctor notices it and is crestfallen. Like he's starting to realise that they're growing. Yeah. They're growing out of him. Yeah. And there's a change made to the original script to emphasise that. So the way Chibnall writes it is, 1st of all, Brian's there, and then Amy and Rory come and sit with him in the doorway, and then the doctor brings the sandwiches in the thermos. And Stephen Moffatt kind of said, well, no, the arc we're going for is this. So can we change it to actually the doctors not quite a part of this? And it's like, yeah, great. And it's just interesting how 2 writers have the same idea, but just by changing who's responsible for the sandwiches and the coffee and the actor's facial expressions changes the whole meaning of the scene. Yeah, it's a really, really good scene, I think. It's a really pretty good scene. I think that scene also has a great emotional resonance for Brian and for Amy and Rory, not just for the doctor realising that he's losing them and that they're growing out of him. Um, Brian, you know, is established in this episode and power of 3 and he was going to return at the end of uh, angels take Manhattan. And it shows how much that Rory and Amy love him. Yeah, and that if they had made that the film that tiny little scene at the end with him getting the letter from them from the past, that would have had a huge emotional payoff for the character, you've grown, you've grown to love in just a few episodes. Yeah. Yeah, I really love that ending scene. it's just beautiful And I think on the other side, Amy is worried that the doctor is losing interest in her and she actually asks whether he's travelling with Riddell and Nefertiti, the way that he travels with her and Rory. And the doctor says, no, you know, you're the ponds, you're kind of special, and these are just sort of people that I'm, you know travelling around with a bit, but you're important. And, and Brian gets to be an honorary pond because it's his, yeah his, um, it's his insight that Rory and him constitute that gene thingy you were just talking about. And so he's the one who actually saves the day and turns the spaceship around. And so he gets to be another pond. And it's like Pond is this kind of honorific that the doctor, the reason that it's Rory Pond is that Rory is as important as Amy and now Brian is important. And so he isn't letting go of her, but there is something where they're kind of pulling apart. Yeah, that I love the scene with the just the 2 of them. Um, just the, the doctor and Amy, that little scene where he, she just says, oh, I just feel like you're weaning us off you. And um, and yeah, he does a little kiss on the forehead. And I think there's, the relationship in that is, is just gorgeous. And I love the fact that it's kind of that affectionate relationship where he obviously like adores her, but it's not at all sexualised. Whereas with, when you get Clara, it becomes a bit more kind of sexualised and a little bit, uh, bit dodgy. But with this, it's just kind of like, oh, you know, I just adore this woman and she adores me, but, um, yeah. And did you notice in the beginning, like, it's also a lovely episode for Amy and Rory's relationship. They're actually wearing matching clothes. If you go back in the beginning. Yeah, she's got her horizontal stripes. He's actually the shirt underneath is horizontal stripes. So they're actually wearing matching clothes and they really are like working together beautifully after that conflict in the previous episode where, you know, they're on the verge of divorcing and they're just this beautiful little unit and a family even, you know, with Brian in as well. Like it's, uh, I just love them all and I love the way too that they've subtly with her makeup made her just look that bit more grown up as well, just subtle changes. Because in viewing time, it's actually not that long, but in story like you said, in story arc, it is a very long time. They have done a really good way of making her look more like a grown up because she's very, very young in the, in the 1st few episodes. Apart from when she's Amelia Pond and played by Caitlin, of course when she's definitely younger. I really think that that's the best thing about this year's Doctor Who episodes. is the way that Amy and Rory's relationship settles down to be something that is just domestic, but it's a relationship that's been through a lot and the 2 of them absolutely have grown together. And it's the reason I think that maybe for me, town called Mercy is very, very good indeed, but I am a massive fan of the power of 3 because we just get so much of that in that episode. The other thing I think the needs to be said from that, the scene with the doctor and Amy is the bit where she says like, oh, you'll be the deaf of me. No, he'll be you'll be the deaf of me or said all vice. And then he's, the doctor's face when she's, um, he thinks about the fact that Amy could die. Um, yeah. And of course, it's all that foreshadowing. But that's what I love about Matt Stock. Do I get endlessly in arguments of Joe Ford because he thinks Matt is rubbish and can't act? And I'm like, are you a psychopath? Like, this is just... But yeah, just like, how... But he's one of those actors where he can say so much without uttering a word, like it's all on his face and just those subtle. He can be completely goofy and hands everywhere one minute and then very still and reflective and deadly serious and next and that's why he is my favourite doctor. Love him. Yeah. Yeah, I got god complex vibes from that moment where he's remembering that the reason that he originally left her behind was because he didn't want to be the death of her and like just the how his face falls as if maybe he's falling back into bad habits or something. It's very good. Well,ly listener, that's all we have time for this week. We'll be back next week for some moral quandaries and gunslinging in a town called Mercy. In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook at FTE Podcast on Twitter, and on our website, Flightthrough Entirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts Bondfinger, Jody InterTara, Maximum Power, and Untitled Star Trek project. Until next time, remember, it's never a good idea to keep vegetable massa in your pants. Thank you very much for listening and good night. Courgettes, good night. Ta-ta. Good night. That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley Brendan Jones, James Selwood, and Fiona Tomney. Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. This episode, his kneebrox moment was recorded on the 13th of March 2022 and released on the 17th of April. Anyone can wish for a version of the invasion of the dinosaurs with updated CGI dinosaur effects, but only FDE can campaign for a version of dinosaurs on a spaceship with the CGI dinosaurs replaced by rod and wire puppets created by Rodney Fuller. Join our campaign on Twitter at hashtag MakeTriceyReal. Maybe kind of appropriate to mention that Mass Myth really plants one on Arthur Darwin. I know this episode. But then he slaps his face. Like it's like, oh, you did a good thing. Kiss. Oh, you idiot, it didn't work. And like it's one of those things where it's that slapping his face thing has got to be just mad. Like, there's no way that that's not business matters, Vincent. So good. Chris Chibnell's best script. I think Power of 3, E, maybe, Power of 3, although this is very good. This is up there. Yeah, no, I agree, I agree. It's worrying that his 2 best scripts are in this season. Yeah, well, what's his best script for the, what's his best script for the 13th doctor, do you think? Well, do you do you count the co-written script? Or do you count his soul? You are like fugitive of the jury? because that's the thing. I would say fugitive, but if we're doing solo, I would say War of the Centaurans. Yeah, I would probably say War of the Sautarans too. It is pretty damn great. Yeah. But I was also going to say this is completely facetious, but between my 1st viewing of this episode and this current viewing I've seen Matt Smith in Maplethorpe. Oh, that, that's out. I don't... It's probably prosthetic G. To be honest, I think the sexual content in it is tamer than the American queer as folk. Right, okay. But he's still bloody excellent in it. Wow, he's such a great actor. And like the 1st shot is over his shoulder and Rod didn't tell me what we were watching. First shot is over his shoulder. I'm like, I know that chin. Like, literally, I went, I know that chick. Where's that chin going? Chinny. Is it does John Hurt call him chinny? Chinny and sand shoes? Yeah, chinny and sand shoes. Yeah. Oh, dear. John Smith. Did I say John Smith or John? No, you said John Herbert. I've got a Matt Smith chip. No, you don't. I've got a chin. Cyra has it, Matt Smith's chin. Yes. Yeah, in discovering. Oh, that was really fun. Thank you for that. Thank you for being on that. I think there was a little bit of latency between... Yeah, like I think you were hearing us again after we... Yeah, but I can fix that. yeah fix it and post it. I am very skilled.