Petering Out

[00:45]

Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight for Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that really needs to get out of here in about half an hour, my wife and kids are waiting for me in the car outside.

I'm Nathan.

I'm Peter, not Davidson.

I'm Simon.

And I'm not Brendan nor James under sheets for this one.

Well, as you heard a couple of days ago, the 50th anniversary special was completely ruined for all of us by the utterly disrespectful omission of Janet Fieldingers Tegan Javanka.

So let's see if we can salvage some satisfaction from this terrible day as we press the red button and see what happens in the five-ish doctors reboot.

So, I have to confess to being a little bit disappointed by Peter Davidson in this one, because I thought he was really cool and didn't kind of give a crap, and this can only be written by someone with a desperately upsettingly encyclopaedic knowledge of the entire history of Doctor Who.

[01:58]

I think he had help on that front.

But what it does show is he has, whatever he might pretend, he actually has incredible affection for the program and incredible affection for the fans as well.

And this is also so Peter Davidson flavoured because not only is he a very Ryan sardonic person, but his doctor was Ryan sardonic, and he's just channelled all of that into this and the entire thing, is an exercise in Rhinus and Sardoni.

But he's also, though, so happy to take the piss out of himself.

And I think that shows his true worth.

Yeah, in fact, that actually kind of happens to everyone.

I mean, there's that scene where Colin Baker locks. his entire family into the house to watch vengeance on Barrel.

Hey, we've all been there. such a bad story.

No.

But Sylvester's terrifically pathetic as well in a totally different way.

Yeah.

And like no one comes off as being good except possibly Paul McCann.

[03:01]

Yeah, they're all happy to portray themselves as washed up has been, who were in this kind of crappy program 30 or 40 years ago, which wasn't actually that good. you know what I mean?

It's the part they were born to play.

Exactly.

It is the Armando Ionucci episode of Doctor Who, even though it's sitting out on the fringe, but it does feel like 90s review.

And again, that's kind of sweet because that's already 30 years ago.

So it honestly feels like the comedic conventions.

Has anyone said tropes this episode yet?

No, but it's had a bit of a run this year.

Has it?

It's a bit of a revival.

Well, it's a sticky trope in that case.

Yeah, it does.

It definitely, the whole comedic style of it also feels outmoded and outdated, and I think that adds to its watchability.

We also have to say, isn't it significant for the last time we get to see Mr. Barrowman?

No.

Oh no, that's right.

He comes back later before he...

Yeah, twice.

Before he's cancelled twice.

[04:02]

Yes.

Yes.

That's the highlight of the episode for me.

Well, it's also one of the very last things to be filmed in the BBC television centre.

We said that earlier this week with adventure in space and time, time and space.

Right.

But this also has a scene in the BBC television centre, which is where Pete oddly thinks Doctor Who is still being made.

Well, they just kind of outside.

No, I mean, he actually goes in there, remember, and meets Matt and Jenna in a dream sequence.

Oh yes, yes, yes.

You are my mother's favourite doctor.

Look away, look back.

You are my favourite.

So lovely.

I really wanted William Russell in that uniform to tell them to sod off out of the car. as William Russell, who's had no other gig for 50 years.

I think would have been great.

Yeah.

So everyone is back.

Like everyone who is still alive basically is bad.

[05:04]

And he's basically living in the country, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

And what, like what I think about it is that this week has been very generous to all of the doctors, I think there was literally no prospect of any of the classic series doctors appearing. we ask Colin that?

Well, I mean, but the thing is that they don't look anything like maybe Sylvester.

They don't look like they did on the show.

Very, very few of the people know who they are.

And if they do know who they are, that's down to Stephen Moffat, I think.

Well, they know who they are if it's Tom Baker.

Yeah, yeah.

I don't think there was any ever any actual prospect of the old ones appearing in the special. certainly not at least as the doctors.

Maybe it's a Tom style cameo.

And you'd think there would be more chance because it's now shot in widescreen rather than four?

Yes, and there's more of them, he said. sweeping that into the corner.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Colin actually, you know, play true to type in this one?

[06:10]

Okay.

So I quite like this but I don't love it.

Yeah.

And the reason is that I don't think Colin is that in on the joke.

I know that he is on a surface level, but when I was saying earlier that this is Peter Davidson flavoured, Peter Davidson's like that, Peter Davidson has a very healthy relationship with Doctor Who in that he is just the right amount of attached to it, but also consciously uncoupled from it.

Whereas Doctor Who is the highlight of Colin's career and the circumstances under which he left were obviously quite raw and painful and still are raw and painful to him, quite obviously.

And so having him depicted as someone who basically has nothing better to do than sit around watching and waiting for, um, with great joy, the delivery of vengeance on Varus, the special edition, and then being desperate to get into the 50th anniversary episode when we know that he actually did want to be in it and was quite hurt when Tom was the only one who was in it rather than any of the others, is just a bit close to the bone for me.

[07:18]

Yeah, I think, look, I think that's probably fair, but I do think that Pete gives himself enough of that sort of material as well, and he seems to be the ringleader of the whole protest.

He's the one who's standing outside television centre with a big sign.

They're just sitting there with coffees.

Yeah, they actually think he's a bit of an idiot.

Yeah, yeah.

And he is also depicted, you know, talking to his kids about how there's little prospect of him being in the anniversary special and having them just not care.

Having them only interested in the new series.

Yeah, yeah. which I think is pretty great.

Yeah, I disagree with you, Peter.

I think that Colin is on the joke.

I think you can have, I think you can have both things.

Both things are true.

Yes, he was very hurt that they weren't in the 50th and there wasn't a way for it to work.

But at the same time, I think he's more than capable of taking the piss out of himself in that way.

I mean, locking the family in the home to watch Venice Vara special edition.

[08:20]

I mean that is deliberately saying, yes, I know what I'm like.

You know what I mean?

And you're right.

Pete gets most of the kind of stupidity part of it, especially when they're at the exhibition and he actually gets them all to go into the police box.

It seems oddly surprised.

But it's not the TARDIS.

And Collin says, really?

So I think you're probably reading something into it, which I don't think is there.

No, absolutely.

And it's about my relationship to the new series in the old series as well.

Like, um, I wasn't quite on board with the fact that in the early years of New Doctor Who, a lot of the classic doctors and companions would go around bagging the old series in comparison.

It looks so good now.

They've got so much money.

Russell's writing and it's brilliant, and by implication, the old series was ridiculous and low budget and not worth worrying over.

Whereas actually, I'm more of a fan of the old series and I think it has its own strength.

And so something like this, while I entirely get the joke, and I really love Peter Davison's sense of humour about it.

[09:22]

It's a little more uncomfortable for me because I don't like to see the old series being mocked in comparison.

Yeah, it turns out that the new series is often low budget and...

But that's interesting because I don't I just don't get that tone from it.

Yes, it's taking the piss, but it's taking the piss in such an affectionate way.

Oh yeah, definitely.

Do you remember the bit where they head into the studios for the recording and outside?

It's all incidental music from the opera?

And when they go inside, the incidental music is from Rings of Acas.

And like they keep going back and forth.

And it's the old, it's the old multi-fart, the Jack, they're on film.

It's even it's even better than that because going back to what you were saying, Simon, the music from outside is the caves of Andrazani.

Oh, my goodness, from inside.

Oh, that's the rings of Adam.

That's even better.

Did anyone else come away from this just for the, I really want Pete to write an episode or direct an episode or just be...

If only had in the old days, it would have been great.

[10:23]

I think definitely if he'd worked with Graham and we'd had another season of, it could have been really interesting.

He is a very smart man.

Yeah, he's a lot smarter than almost all of us actually realised at the time and certainly many of us realise now.

I mean, that level of comedy is definitely.

I think that level of comedy is starting to be shown back when there were those sketches when the show was off the air, but not far from coming back onto the air.

I think it was around the children and needs sort of stuff.

And there was stuff that Mark Gatis and David Wade, where they kidnapped, where they kidnapped...

Davidson basically has the tape over his mouth for the entire time.

But what his eyes are doing.

Isn't that a bit of like, I think I might kiss doctor.

So he's always had a sense.

It's just a shame We didn't see more of it in zero. and I think we would have probably, if it had gone on another year or two.

I'd forgotten that Mark Gatis is the Kevin Bacon of Doctor Who.

Yeah, and in fact brings all of these other extraordinary people, like we mentioned the other week.

[11:27]

Diana Reig is only in Doctor Who because she's a mate of Mark Gatis.

And he's and also her daughter, which is why they finally ended up.

I mean, my God, what a runcible spoon he is.

Leavering out there.

I didn't actually want to say it like that.

That's kind of unkind.

What is everyone to say he's the Jethric of the...

What is a runstable spoon?

Is that something that's used to jimmy in action man out of a camera?

It's a spoon with a very long candle.

Exactly that purpose.

Nothing to do with deadly assassin.

And constipated scripts.

You can just leave around.

Whatever's good, but at the bottom of the barrel.

But that sense of the lightness of touch that's in this.

I think that's why I enjoyed this so much because I don't, I feel I've seen this for a while.

I knew who.

I think that Margatis was originally going to play the part that was given to John Barriman if TARDIS Wakia is to be believed and that it was given to Barriman because he didn't have anything official otherwise to do for the special.

[12:32]

So what Gatis would have played, what, Gatis?

Yeah, I think he would have played himself with his wife and kids. and so...

Sparrowman is infinitely funnier.

Well, I suspect the whole thing was a moveable feast, depending on who was found.

Who was going what day?

Oh my god, so-and-so's going to win it.

So we have to give them something.

So who would have played Colin?

Oh.

I mean, the most hilarious thing, I think, is when he dumps his wife and children, by the side of the road, and then just bores them rigid with show cheating. all the way to Carter.

And isn't the code to his secret wife and kids, him singing, I am what I am.

Well, that actually appears a couple of times in the episode.

I think the BBC radio announcer is going to play him singing, I am what I am at some point.

Yes.

And then one of those sort of security guards is listening to, I am, whatever.

But again, it's another one who's perfectly happy to just take the Mickey out of themselves.

You know, he's living a secret life.

Glandestine life with a wife and 2 children and but also that thing of, you know, he will just ball people with his own show tunes and he's got the pile of DVDs and CDs that he'll give to anyone who walks past and they're all thrown into the remainder bin at the exhibition.

[13:46]

You know what I mean?

Like, that shows that someone else who is perfectly happy to make themselves not, I can't think of the words.

Well, just to make fun of themselves.

To make fun of themselves.

Yeah, exactly.

And both showrunners at that point. doing exactly as well. fact that Moffat is writing the script to the 50th using the action figures.

Yeah, yeah.

In his office.

Brilliant.

Because that's what always happens.

You know, Pandora opens, he opens his drawer of action figures and has them all kind of around the set.

Like that's been his approach to the show and there he is being made fun of.

And then basically casting himself as wrestle on in the 5 doctors.

That's it.

And then Russell, who is even lower on the pecking order than Peter Davison.

Like everyone else is ringing Moffatt to try and get in the show.

Russell's ringing Peter Davis. to get into the special year.

But it's so knowing of all the fan tropes.

There's that word and how all these people have their own personas within fandom at the conventions and all that and that's what's, you know, being portrayed as well so beautifully.

[14:54]

Yeah, yeah.

I think there's a real generosity to it because I do think that that week everyone gets to do something.

And far from being left out of the anniversary celebrations.

All of those surviving doctors, everyone except Christopher Eccleston, who gets referenced as the doctor, but doesn't actually appear.

You get regenerated into it.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

But everyone.

Well, I mean, he appears briefly in the big climactic scene, in day of next trunk.

Yeah, yeah.

And so I think there's a real warmth and generosity to that.

And that's part of the theme, I think, of the 50th anniversary is bringing the old series and the new series together and creating one glorious whole, you know.

I also like the fact that Peter Davison is the nearest thing to a dynasty that we have in... 3 generations.

[15:54]

Yeah, because, I mean, it's always hard to keep straight in your head.

It's like what's a 1st cousin once removed and what's a 2nd cousin, which I can never figure out, even though I've researched it many times and tried to get it sorted in my head, I still can't put my finger on what the difference is.

And Georgia Tennant is the thing that wrecks everything there because you think, but wait, so she's Peter Davidson's daughter, but she's married to David Tennant, which means that Peter Davidson's sons with his 2nd wife are the 2 kids at the start, but Georgia Tennant's son, who is now David Tennant's adopted son, is the kid who is running around the exhibition with his sonic screwdriver.

Oh, my God, really?

saying that isn't right.

Like Susan?

Yes.

Exactly.

And he now is an actor as well.

He's in Game of Thrones.

Like he's a proper adult.

And just like keeping all of that in your head and trying to work out where all the generations sit.

They're basically Doctor Who Royalty.

Yeah, well, and that's brought in as well, which I just think is adorable.

[16:55]

So you've got a very, very pregnant Georgia tenant, easy ice cream with a celery stick.

Oh, yeah.

It might as well have been a runcible spin.

And then it rings her as she's giving birth.

Is that right?

I can't remember that there's something else importance going on. something else I was supposed to ask.

So all of that's terribly fun.

And so he uses that relationship to get in.

That's how he even gets into the studio.

It's really true here.

Yeah, awesome.

Who else?

Do we have favourite cameos?

Well, the opening sequence with Olivia Coleman.

I mean, that's just, I mean, she is she is perfect in everything, but I just love that kind of...

Well, that's what she says, isn't it?

Yes, exactly.

I'm usually in everything.

Even more true now. mortuary now.

But yeah, it's just wonderful.

Wonderful.

Yeah.

And so we have Sean Pertuy representing his absent father and we actually have David Trouton representing his absent father as one of the Dalek operators who seem to be reading Dalek operators magazines.

[17:58]

So you've got Nicholas Briggs and David Trout.

David operate his Gazette.

And then there's another sequence, did you notice, where I'm sure that someone's holding up a copy of Dr. magazine with the Webber Fear.

Tell us naps.

Yes, I noticed that as well.

Yeah, yeah, is it in the production office?

They all...

Is it a production office?

Yes, it's in the production office, which I thought was well done.

Because that wasn't known again.

Well, known, but not public.

Right.

And also completing everything, Jessica Carney plays one of the security guards.

What does she?

Well, it's definitely Janet's finest hour.

Oh, she gets to be the master in the regeneration scene.

Can I say about that sequence, Peter?

You may or may not remember this, but we are watching, of course, all this at your place in Penge, the night of the anniversary, and the actual anniversary, you know, the day the doctor finishes and we're all going, blah, blah, blah.

And then, of course, oh, we got to go to the red button thing because that's how this was shown in the UK.

And so there would be about a 10 minute lag.

And I assume that this had already started.

[19:00]

So when we turned it on on the red button, it started with the regeneration sequence.

So the 1st thing we so for us, when we saw it the 1st time, it starts with Moffat lying on the sofa and then all these faces starting to appear around him and he suddenly sort of leaps up the start and we thought that that was just kind of like a cute little tag at the beginning.

And then, of course, because it was just on a loop, and then you sort of caught her... take us about 2 minutes to realise that we'd missed some.

No, we didn't know.

I was actually insisting to some people, one person in particular who was quite drunk that evening, that we had gotten to, when we came round to the start again, that, no, no, no, no, we just missed this part.

It's just on a loop and I'll get the name off you later.

So in the other dream, which is very, very definitely all of the people circling around, it's everyone, isn't it?

[20:04]

Like, I think I spotted Anika and...

Katie is obvious.

Lala's there?

Yep That's good.

Did we?

I need to go and pause and sort of.

I never actually pause.

Maybe that's why Tom didn't do it.

So apparently Tom didn't want to do it or Pete rang him several times and he replied.

Allegedly, everyone who was asked to be in it.

Said yes. said yes. one exception.

Now that could be a slightly apocryphal answer given during the convention to me.

I mean, it is Peter Davidson telling us that.

It is right and sardonic.

And so there may have been, I mean, who knows?

There may have been others that said no, but I think he's just making, he was just making the usual point.

Ian McCellen did it.

Oh my god, that's great.

And you know, so they shot that on the set and like said...

They had an overseas budget.

No, they didn't.

Peter Jackson shot it and sent it over.

[21:06]

It's extraordinary, but I mean, because Peter Jackson is a big fan.

But that isn't that incredible that, you know, an Academy Award-winning director slash producer, whatever he got the award for at the time?

loves the show so much, to film this thing, to take a moment on the set of a multi-million dollar Hollywood production, to film a little joke to go in at basically what is effectively a DVD extra.

Yeah, I think it's just amazing because it means that Peter Jackson and Ron Jones have directed for the same show.

But don't you love Sylvester's iPhone screen when it comes up with Peter the Peter Jackson's calling?

and he's holding the Oscar.

Well, that's right.

Moffatt has like BAFTAs and things like that.

So good.

I love Ian McCallen in that too, where he says, well, actually, probably be better without it.

And the fact that, you know, Peter Jackson has to remind him who Sylvester is...

And Sylvester and Sylvester is wearing the Hobbit thing and is doing what we ourselves have personally experienced just going on and on and on about being... all the time.

[22:15]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And the comedy, the oversized comedy t-shirts that the doctors wear under their jackets, that same sort of thing, and recognising that they're all filled out.

That's it.

I think for me, though, the thing that made it so incredible was that it was so incredibly unexpected.

We knew that there was this going to be this little red button thing that we we were supposed to watch after the day of the doctor.

But the fact that it was so long, it's half an hour, it's not 10 minutes.

You know, the fact that, as we've said, everybody is in it.

Not just nearly everybody, but basically everybody is in it to some degree.

The fact that it is both so affectionate about the program.

And that's why I sort of want to pick up with what you were saying before, Peter.

I don't think it crosses the line to mocking it.

And I agree with you that when the show comes back, they're all trying to distance themselves from the original series going, you know, it was all a bit rubbish, and we understand that, and you know, it was all a lot of shoestring, and it's so much better now, blah, blah, blah.

That's also to some extent what fandom was doing.

[23:16]

You know, people like you and I were very much in the minority.

You know, we did start to love the classic series even more because I was worried that, oh, the new series was going to come along and, you know, the classic series was going to be sort of shoved into a cupboard.

And so I think, yes, in 2013, this show has only been back 8 years.

We're still kind of to some extent in that mindset.

But certainly watching it from this distance where I think those feelings have moved away.

I think it just rides this beautiful line of being affectionately mocking, not really mocking the show, but mocking the people in the show and relying on our decades of experience with these actors, with these actual people at conventions and when they appear on DVD extras and the kind of the meta part of fandom rather than the actual show part necessarily.

Oh yes, absolutely.

And I don't have many problems with it.

I do quite like it.

As I said before, it's partly about my own reaction to how classic Doctor Who was kind of a little bit waylaid by a new Doctor Who, but the fact that it's Peter Davidson who's doing it makes a lot of difference because it is about almost fan constructs of what the doctor's personalities were.

[24:28]

And Peter Davidson is very aware of that and is channelling that.

And so I can put my slight awkwardness at that aside, it just means that I'm not 100% on board.

I'm 90% on board.

I think, though, that this whole year has been about bringing classic Doctor Who back into the fold, and I can kind of understand the Doctor Who was a punchline, and it was a show that was kind of science fiction drama produced like a light entertainment program, a show that they'd been making for years and years without properly thinking about why on earth they were doing it.

And we were all still around to enjoy the Sylvester McCoy era where it suddenly had some proper ideas behind it and had had some thought put into it.

But it had been a punchline.

And so I think that they were right initially when bringing it back to be wary of the association with the old program.

But I certainly think by the time series 7 comes along, we're much more relaxed about that because we're successful on our own terms.

[25:34]

And it's contextual as well because the new series was a massive hit for its 1st few years and was definitely in the anniversary year.

And so the comparisons would sort of audience profile and popularity are apt.

But we can look at it a little bit differently now where the new series is still popular enough, but is another drama series on television.

It doesn't have the heavenly choir of angel singing every time it's mentioned.

Yeah, well, we'll get that next year.

It'll be fine.

But Doctor Who, I think, becomes the punchline in that way in the 80s.

Yeah.

And not because, I mean, I love I love all that area as well.

But I think it's because, well, actually, should I say it becomes the punchline in the sort of from the Williams era on, because I think that's when the show starts to fall behind what's needed visually to keep up with...

Exactly.

And because they just can't, right?

But also, you know, high inflation, relatively speaking, budget cuts, terrible producer, well, yeah, well, different kinds of terrible producer, like they're both terrible in their own way.

[26:41]

Great Williams and James, he much as I'm fond of both of them.

But they both have significant spots, yeah.

Yeah.

You know, Graham Williams, I think, isn't able to get the best out of the BBC people that he can.

And everyone starts, it becomes the Tom Baker comedy half hour show.

JNT can get the best out of the BBC.

That's why we have Greater Show in the Galaxy at all because he knew how the system worked.

He could fudge things together and make it work.

But he kind of gets so obsessed with the merchandising and everything else that the shade starts to become a parody of itself.

And he has no taste and he's not very into writing.

Exactly He cares less about the scripts and more about the kind of the set piece moments.

And I think that's why it becomes the punchline.

That's when the BBC hierarchy starts to want to go away.

Yeah.

And I think that's where it is.

I don't think that's the case in the 60s.

You know, had the program ended in 1978.

I think this wouldn't have even been a conversation.

No.

I mean, that's pretty much why when you have a crossover in the fiction, with the new show, it's Tom Baker's doctor, more or less, who is back and not one of the 80s doctors.

[27:42]

And so Peter Davidson's instincts and what he's what he's saying in this program are actually correct.

Yeah.

I mean, when they start starting to rehabilitate the show from like in the early 90s, you know, when Alan Yentov is trying to kind of get things going again.

What are they showing?

You know, they're not showing the 80s stories.

They're showing, you know, Pertwee and Tom Baker stories on those Friday night repeats as a rule.

Yeah, in the late 90s, yes.

Spearhead and Silurians and Genesis.

Yeah.

I mean, that we talk about Davidson being smart, but one of the ways you know that he's smart is that he gets this terrible material and finds some way of performing it.

You know, he always seems to be doing something.

Like you can tell.

Yes, he's never just finding it in.

[28:43]

Yeah, obviously rubbish, isn't it?

Because as a whole, it's not.

It's just, I think most of the failures are failures of production.

Yeah.

I mean, there's always going to be script things, which are a bit rubbish, but no, mostly they're fine.

I think that the show becomes too horrible, I think.

Oh, well, yes, you have an issue.

It stops being fun.

Yeah, no I disagree with that.

With Capaldi or with Joe?

No, with Davis.

David, yeah.

I think that's overstated.

Exactly so, but.

And you can really see the cast.

The cast are led by Davison's emotional responses to that.

And you can really see him, forgive me, petering out. why I'm here.

The best thing that happened to the program in that era is Peter Davidson making the conscious decision between, I would say, the 5 doctors and Warriors of the Deep to just start playing the doctor as himself.

Yeah.

It's that one...

Yeah, that's what's missing.

I mean, you get flashes of it. a bit of a joy at the time. as a little boy thinking, I'm actually enjoying this.

[29:46]

I mean, we loved all of it, but there was just a sense of...

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, even worries of the deep, which we now scored.

I loved it at the time.

It had a big...

It looked very 80s instead of very 70s, you know?

It was a bubbly space 1999.

But can I say until but it's interesting after 1920s.

After sort of 1920, even though I can't, yeah, you're right.

We were sort of all loving it.

But I was sort of loving it, but at the same time, I was then looking forward to going back to the Ark and Space after time flight finished or whatever they went back to would have been something like that.

And you're watching then the Toms and so on like that.

And then, 0 my god, they go back and do Day of the Daleks.

And so, you know, that was more exciting for me in 1982, 83. than it was for me to see a brand new episode. same.

Yeah.

I actually gave this comparison to Matt Jones at that do that we keep coming back to about comparing the 50th and the 20th.

And I was kind of predicting a, you know, is it all going to start to go horribly wrong in the same way that it did after the 20th.

[30:47]

I remember that conversation.

Look what happened.

Look, it happened because of the fact that, you know, everything builds to this massive anniversary special.

There's this great celebration of the program.

So anything after that is going to be a sort of a denouement, a bit of a kind of a disappointment.

And the show starts to change a direction to try and do something different and I'll what if we have a doctor like this and do that.

And it is.

And I actually think there are a lot of parallels.

And it never happens immediately.

There's always some residual goodwill.

So in the original show, you'll get season 21, which is pretty good.

And season 22, which you and I think is pretty good.

And it is, it's this.

It is.

Yeah, terrible.

And in the new series, you do get pretty much the rest of the Moth era, which is pretty good.

Series 8 is and series 10.

Yeah, Series 8's a proper return to form.

I'll be interested to see what I think.

Well, I just think it's like he's too embarrassed to like he wants to do a good job because the doctor suddenly him, his old Scottish guy.

It's like, oh, I'm the doctor now. have to write good things for me to say.

And series 8 retains basically the popularity of the Matt Smith era.

[31:50]

It's a fraction down in ratings, but it has that kind of audience and appreciation to it.

It is the closest, I think, in structure to a Davies series, even more so than five, I think.

You know, it's lightly serialised.

It's got the master in a kind of arc.

We just go back and forward and do various sort of different things.

Yeah, you know.

Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for for now.

We'll be back at Christmas to say a centuries long farewell to Matt Smith in time of the doctor.

In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook, at FTE Podcast on Twitter, and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, Jody Interterra, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek project.

[33:05]

Until next time, may Olivia Coleman continue to be in everything.

Thank you very much for listening and good night.

Good night.

Bye bye.

Good then.

That was Flight True Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffith, Simon Warren, Richard Stone.

Theme arrangements by Cameron Lamb.

This episode, petering out, was recorded on the 2nd of October 2022 and released on the 27th of November.

Thank you all very much for joining us for this week's anniversary celebrations and special thanks to Conrad Westmas for joining us for our night of the doctor episode.

And thank you to all the loyal and attractive listeners who gave us feedback this week.

We couldn't have done it without you.

We've been going for half an hour.

[34:06]

I think that we should do an out, though.

Well, we haven't talked about the part two. that they were going to do.

There's nothing to say about it.

There was going to be a part two.

McGain was talking about it at a convention 12 months after. part two Exactly.

And why isn't everyone, you know, why aren't we in it?

What were they going to?

He was saying it's in pre-production and they're scripts and we're still, you know, What were they going to call it?

The next day of the doctor.

That's it.

And then Colin said, immediately afterwards, possibly the same convention.

I can't remember, it's a very long time ago.

It's on, um, it's on the Tatus Wiki thing, this story as well.

He said, no, you?

In his best car, but more northern.

They said, no, we have looked at several ideas, but it would feel a pale imitation of the glory that was the five-ish doctor's reboot.

But there is apparently chat going on.

Us, Colin.

Colin is a bit of a blab. quite happy to chat.

[35:06]

That would have been great.

They could have fired Colin and then gone on without him.

Wow.

No, too soon.

It's still too soon But I do hope he's doing something for next year.

It'll be interesting to see... things.

So, you know, if anyone follows Uncle Colin.

The funny thing is that this is going to be released after the Chibnall centenary special.

Oh.

And so by then, we will know what a bad idea it was to bring all of those people back into the main show.

I don't need to see it can tell from the trailer.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

With all due respect to the people involved in it, none of them listen, do they?

Janet Janet doesn't listen to everything she's mentioned, is it?

Well, we'll just ask her when we're released.

Maybe that could be the sequel to this.

It could be Peter Davison in a cave zone design or a generation coming back and say, they're not going to have you back, Janet.

[36:08]

It is a bit sad that Janet Fielding and Sophie Aldred never had more to do with the new show than Peter Davidson has.

That is a that is a crime against nature.

Well, Peter Davidson and David Tennant were watched by 13000000 people in 2007.

I don't think they're going to be watched by the same number of people.

Oh, for that?

Children of Nate thing.

Oh, okay.

Okay, fair enough.

He did do that.

I forgot about that one.

So it's actually this month.

So it's extraordinary thing.

October, yeah.

We're in October now.

It's extraordinary to think that I am totally uninterested in what's going on.

It's in 3 week, 3 or four. 4 weeks time.

Is there anyone who is excited about it?

I don't know, Brendan.

I used to be.

So is this the, is this, does she regenerate at the end?

Yes, yes.

Into David Tenant?

Into David Tenant?

Not into shooting.

So he's actually not into the watcher. to David Tenner, who's going to regenerate into shooting.

Right.

So I wasn't sure whether so the David Tennant bits aren't like a flashback to his earlier thing.

Because he looks older and, you know, he's wearing different clothes.

[37:09]

No, but I think they've...

They've let into on with.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

God.

This is going to be terrible.

I think I very definitely a, sorry, we've for the last few years up and we're going to reassure you all that it's going to be...

No, but I don't want them to make it look like we've stuffed up everything since David Tennant left.

No that's true.

They certainly haven't.

No.

But it did go off the boil, though, I think.

You know, like it stops after the 50th anniversary.

After the 50th anniversary, I think it does.

I mean, the Capaldi era is a disappointment to me.

And especially because I thought he would, he's such a, has such a good doctor and can be such a good doctor and I think he's just wasted and it's a shame.

I actually gave this comparison to Matt Jones at that do that we keep coming back to.