Animosity and Horror

Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety the only Doctor Who podcast that just makes things up to pass the time while other people are talking. I'm Nathan. I'm James. And I'm a Khaled supreme lasagna that needs a good damn pricking for this episode. I'm the allegedly fabulous set of Richard. Oh, Adam. Well, we met the new doctor properly a week ago, mere moments before he roughed up a tramp and pushed a guy out the window. But is he a good man? Let's try to find out as we follow him into the Dalek. Well, James and I have turned up, both of us, embarrassingly, in Raquel Welsh's white latex bikini. Fantastic voyage for that. And annoyingly, one of us wears it better than the other, and I'm not saying who. Sorry, Richard. So I'm very sad there wasn't a Donald Pleasance in this episode. I wanted someone to be banging on the door going, Yeah, no only a good point. No one sabotages it, do they? No, that's actually a good point. I don't know whether we want to start off by saying whether we love this or not and maybe let's just work up the way that we get there. But that's a very good point. Structurally. I mean, we all saw fantastic voyage. As little kids on Bill Collins. A deadly antibodies. They're also... I live through that era. still doing it. But the whole thing of, do you remember that? The score, that amazing drum score that was very Dalek invasion of Earth and the boom, boom, boom, boom, the very $6000000 man. This is a really serious movie about science and Recca Welsh's jug. And that fabulous little speed racer submarine shit that, you know I mean... She was a serious scientist who'd been shrunken them. You know, this was her breakout career move. Hi, Jenna. How's it going? But yeah, that cast. The reason that film worked. And yes, we need to add that Robbie Schumann and Fantastic Voyage is probably the 2 big influences. Yeah. But I maybe shouldn't say that I possibly think this is the best Dalek story now of the whole era, whereas the 1st time I watched it, I did not offer bits. Well, you had the Todd experience. Not personally. I have, he's a married man now, but I have, I've got to say that I can really see what they're doing and I want to hear what everyone else is. So there is an explicit reference, isn't there, at a fantastic void? Oh, yeah. Yeah, because I think it probably says. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He says that'd make a fantastic movie. It's not quite as good as his alien gag this coming Christmas, but it isn't too bad. Yeah. You know what? I watched, for my podcast, I watched Journey to the Centre of the Tartars, which I enjoyed way more than I expected to. Okay. Um, because once I became unburdened by who Clara was meant to be and whatever her story was, and this is like, like, this is what is this, Clara 4.0 or 5.0, like, this is a new Clara. Now she's a school teacher all of a sudden. Yeah. And the same with this one. Now that I'm unburdened by whatever's meant to be going on with Clara. What is this overarching story that we're never told. So we get to the end of Clara's story and we're like, I still don't know who she was meant to be. And once that's gone, I got to enjoy the rest of it. Yeah. Because I feel like a lot of the Moffat stories were trying to tell this ongoing storyline that never finished that he never got to the end of or would just abandon and start something else. And once you get rid of that, once you ignore that part of it, it's like, oh, there's a nice little adventure going on here. I get a real kind of Tom and Liz in season 12. vibe where it's the hips, isn't it? I mean, she'll start dressing like Sarah and she's got the same accent. But she works better with Capaldi, I think, than she does. Yeah, much better. So it's interesting you say that because the script was written with Tom as a placeholder doctor, they had not cast. What? Capaldi, when Phil Forbid is writing this story, he hadn't been told who the new doctor was. They hadn't cast a new doctor. So he wrote it picturing Tom Baker. And he'd already been writing Sarah Jane adventures for so long. Yeah, yeah. So he obviously had, you know, Liz Slayton in his head and like well, whoever the companion is, it can be Sarah. Yeah, and she is supposed to be a Sarah Jane Smith analogue. Yeah, a shot of it. Adam probably knows. You know, Clara is Lou Slatin's middle name. That's why he chose it, yeah. So there is something sort of very distinctive about this doctor and I think we're coming to a thing that's going to happen throughout the beginning of the season, where the show kind of wants to interrogate who the doctor is. And either it's doing a very clever job of coming at it different ways in each episode or it's making a sort of massive hash of it and doing something completely different every episode for no sort of particular reason. But here, we sort of start with the doctor, asking Clara, if he's a good man, and the hint that he might not be a good man, sort of comes halfway through, but until then, he's prickly and difficult and that mostly just comes across in these sort of outrageously fantastic quips and put downs that he does. Do you think Moffat on some level was trying to go, look, I don't think the 6th doctor was a bad idea. I can do it better. Yeah. I'm really glad you raised that because that was my reading the whole 1st episode and thinking, I don't think it's working here either. This 2nd episode, yeah, it kind of softens a bit. Also, I think the questioning kind of throws the 1st episode into relief. It makes you go, oh, okay, so you know you've been a dickhead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, the big moment, I think, isn't so much roughing up the tramp and pushing the guy out the window. Both of which are strongly implied. Miss Slater's husband. How awkward. Yeah, yeah. How meta and how died. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's when he abandons Clara. And leaves her to the half-faced man. And that's softened by the fact that we learn that Clara expects him still to be there and he is, when she reaches back for him. But still, it's a, it's a problem. Shades of Clara, isn't it? Here, I think the big problem is the moment where he goes, oh, well I've been proved right, the Dalek's evil. We're all just going to stand around and die while I kind of feel miserable about it. Well, no, enjoy being smug about being right, you know. And that's when she slaps him. But, but the rest of the time it's just these quips and I think it's, like, Phil Ford is funny. But Moffatt's a sitcom writer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he is absolutely, you know, making sure that Capaldi has funny things to say after his turn is sort of Malcolm Tucker. Yeah, and that, you know, that was his last big role, I guess before this, is like he's known throughout the UK. the, you know the man with the foulest mouth on television. And now he's going to be in children's television. It's like, whoa. But I mean, I just can't get over the line. You know, where poor old Ross gets hoovered up and dumped in the thing and someone says, is Ross here in this pile of sort of human soup and he says, he's the top layer, if anyone wants to say a few words, which I just think is so brutal and so funny. Like just tremendously great. And also that moment where he makes him have the pill and they're like, I thought that was going to save him. He goes, no, no, no, he was doomed. I just wanted to know where he was going. Great, isn't it? And all the stuff about like the 2nd time he turns up with Clara on the Aristotle and he doesn't really know who anyone is. Like he might be the same person as before, the general. I think he's her uncle, but I might have just made that up while they were talking in order to pass the time. Even though she calls him uncle 17 times. That's right Like all of that stuff is so great. And he starts calling him Uncle stupid over the radio. Like I think that stuff is really, really great. And also it's kind of serving a purpose for the ongoing storyline which is we've just met Danny Pink, who's a soldier, and it's like showing the doctor's absolute animosity and horror of soldiers. So it's kind of like it's it's doing double duty. It's being fun. It's being enjoyable, but also it's a huge character moment that feeds into why Clara keeps him secret for so long. Yeah. Which is, I think, is really deftly handled. Although I kind of feel like it comes out of nowhere a little bit. Like the doctor's antipathy towards soldiers is really laid on very thick here and it's not necessarily something we've had before. And especially given that, you know, Capaldi's the 1st person since Pertwig, to have gray hair on the TARDIS, and he's spent a lot of time with soldiers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What did Mike friendly? What did Mike Yates do? Mike Gates has done something horrible. Yeah. It's an interesting point. I don't want to, because it was just one of the things I wanted to ask all 3 of you. Watching this again, and like, Adam, it's the 1st time I've watched it since broadcast. Bad fan, bad fan. it didn't really work for me. at the time. And now I'm just saying, okay, you've really not strayed far from Malcolm Tucker. And I also mean stylistically performance wise, the actor's tricks. Have we said tropes yet? No. someone else say it. But I wonder if that's a safety thing. I wonder if they're just sort of easing if that's a look. Let's just default to this and then the Colin Baker scenario that Adam mentioned that we'll work into making you. It relies a lot on a committed audience, which they now know they have after the 50th anniversary. Yeah, yeah. They are relying on goodwill after the 50th anniversary. I think it's something that's always been in Moffat's head. And I think the thing is that the 11th doctor is not a good person in all sorts of ways. Oh, but doesn't he veil it well? He does. Charming. He's charming. It's very southern counties. Well, yeah. Super posh. You know, we've got the self-hatred thing with the Dreamlord in Amy's choice, which gets sort of hinted at and never brought up again. The presages this doctorate. Well, yeah, and then you get him keeping secrets, you know, we get him keeping secrets about Amy's pregnancy and about the crack in the wall. We get him inviting everyone to see him shot dead by Lake Silencio hilariously. Like, he's kind of mean and he is a bit of a problem. And even as far back as Russell, the doctor's a problem. You think about the 1st episode or about Jackie's speech in Army of Ghosts. So the doctor's potentially a problem or potentially a bad influence. And Moffatt always has this because, I mean, his 1st sitcom is joking apart. And joking apart is basically an autobiographical sitcom about how he ruined his 1st marriage. And we go from him blaming his wife for infidelity when it becomes clear that the reason that she's with someone else is that he's just insufferable. So Moffatt has this sort of thing where I'm the smartest person in the room, but I'm also a bit awful and he brings that to both of his doctors. And I think, so Capaldi, that's, I think, where Capaldi's thing comes from. It's not just Malcolm Tucker, but it is Moffatt's conception of the character and Moffatt sort of self-inserting himself. I think also one of the problems with Capaldi is, like you were saying, he was very Malcolm Tucker in this series, and I think they worked out how to write for him until he gets that big speech in the Zygon 2 partter. Yeah, they're like, oh, he's great at a monologue. And it's like, why is it taking you like a year and a half to work out how to write for this character? Then series 10. It's just like a speech a week and they're all incredible. But they should have known he was gracious to monologue had they watched the thick of it. Like, sure, that model was full of swearing. Yeah, this is a fanboy homage to thick of it. I want to know if Armando Ianucci had watched this one because I'm sure the ship is named after Onassis. I mean, we've got the same poor engineer lying on the floor of the TARDIS swearing exactly the same way. It just doesn't happen to be too lorry that she's swearing at, but it's so avenue five. Except the sets. Oh, I want to talk about the direction as well, but I'll let you guys about the direction of this episode. So it's Ben Wheatley and the set shoes. that's what actually made it flat for me. Oh, I kind of like some of, like, I like the way the Daleks have been directed. I think Wheatley has gone. I'm going to blow up a lot of Daleks is going to look incredible. So a lot of those action scenes are actually radio controlled 12 inches. No. No. I like this. Yes. I got one of those for free when I took myself on a Doctor Who trip to Cardiff. It gave me like a remote control dalek. And I was like, how am I meant to get this back to Australia? I had to buy a suitcase and tickle them out without all the bits dropping on. Stop talking after about 3 weeks. The ice stalk popped out. No, the ice stalks remain kind of intact. That's actually what the listeners wanted. How's the eye stalk going? It's bit droopy. So I got real Resurrection of the Daleks vibe from that. And I hate resurrection. But I thought it was done really well. And I thought that they were really scary. And I thought, you know, the corridors are kind of dressed. It's not just an abandoned hospital that they've just sort of bunged some cameras in and told everyone to sort of a mose in front of. And there's that scene where Uncle Stupid and his mates are all sort of lined up to watch the Dalek cut through the metal door in you know, the traditional time honoured fashion. But it's all it's all sort of the set's all dressed with kind of future space hospital things. That's an MOD facility. Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah. Oh okay. But it gives it a scale. It means you can run through it. It means you can have a lots of interesting things. Yeah, I mean, I kind of miss the Dalek backgrounds that were all the same burnished metal and stuff that they were. And the cardboard darling. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Originally in the 1st draft of the scripts, there was only one Dalek. They didn't have... all of the sequence. Yeah, like he was just David Dalek. We're going to the Dalek. Well, Phil Ford had been writing, you know, Sarah Jane Adventure so he'd probably gone, oh, I probably got 2 sets. At some point, he went, oh, this might be unfavourably compared to Dalek. I think I'll add in the invasion of the ship at the end. It is very, very dalek, isn't it? Robert Sheman, darling. Yeah, so it even has that line, there's a callback to it. Like, I think an explicit callback to it. because you have this comparison of the doctor and the dalek, which is at the centre of Rob Shearman's story. And in Dalek, the Dalek says to the doctor, you would make a good dalek. And here I think the Dalek says to the doctor, you are a good dalek. Capaldi says that the Dalek isn't a good Dalek, but his reply is that, well, you are. I think the Dalek actually says, I am not a good Dalek. You are a good darling. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so it is sort of very deliberately that. And we've got this sort of central question about, is the doctor a good person? And I'm not sure. that it properly pays off either. So I think it takes the doctor into a place that's sort of that's beyond what at least this script and possibly the show can kind of manage because you get him giving up. He has to be slapped by Clara before he moves into action. And then the whole thing is solved, not by the fact that the doctor has a sense of the beauty and the wonder of the universe but because the doctor really hates the Daleks and has defined himself against the Daleks ever since his 1st trip to Scaro. So at the end of it, Clara says, I don't know if you're a good man but I think you try to be. And I kind of just got the feeling that that was a little bit too pat, and I don't know what he does, that gives her that impression. You know, the whole placement of Clara in this episode feels forced. Like, it's like, oh, we want to set up this thing with her and Danny Pink falling in love and get that sorted out. And so the doctor's going to leave what is a dramatically exciting moment to then go back to Cohill, pick her up and take her back into the narrative. Like it's a weird... She feels kind of out of place from there on in. And I know we're meant to, you know, she's the co-star of the show that's been a co-headlining show for ever since 2005. But it just feels like the weirdest thing in the world. Like wasn't there an easier way of doing that without having to leave and then come back. And you're like, I don't know. And Moffatt does that a lot where it feels like he breaks the dramatic tension by using the TARDIS in an almost magical way. that you kind of go, oh, I feel like you've just pulled the plug on all the tension that we were building up. Because he papers over it, doesn't he, by doing it in flashbacks? So the doctor appears to pick her up and then we see the conclusion of the scene, you know, what happens after the doctor you know, meets the dalek or whatever. He does seem to Moffatt does seem to see women more as Advent calendar treats, doesn't it? And you don't quite know what you're going to eat day because it's going to be radically different from the day before. I think we're getting a little window into Mr. Moffat's own home life. I think we might be before. I mean, here it's the usual thing where the doctor is kind of being useless and the reason that Clara needs to be there is to be the grown-up in the situation, I guess, to be his carer. So he doesn't have to. Which is one of my favourite lines. So he goes, I don't want to say assistant, which is kind of like what they've been called for. Yeah. time immemorial. At least she's the one who says care. Like, because you're a crazy old man and he's the subject. Okay, so why don't you? Later on they decide they're not even going to call them companions. Yeah. They say friends. Because companion sounds like code for, you know, the policeman the policeman says an aliens of London. Was this a sexual relationship? Escort or? I've been reading a lot of Agatha Christie. And you're like, oh, you're looking after a maiden aunt. Yeah. Do you remember the shock when McCoy's doctor referred to Ace, my friend Ace? It was a revelation. Tom says she's my best friend. Yes, Sarah. Not 2nd best friend. That would be K9, I think. I mean, while we're on the subject of Clara, let's talk about the romcom that is slowly breaking out over the course of the season. Oh, Danny Pink on my giant television. He is a pretty man, isn't he? pretty Yeah. His voice is more plummy than I remember it. I thought he was a bit more rough, but no, he's very posh. R rough. Yeah, right or rough. That's a slightly growly voice, though. There is a little bit of kind of, I'm, you know, I think he's beautiful. But when he's ordering the cadets around, I'm like, oh, this are we in a World War one? Are we in the trenches? No, because he wouldn't be an officer. No, I know that. It's perfect, though, because it is, and it's going to happen throughout the season. Moffat was a teacher and his 1st thing is press gang obviously said in a school. And he knows about teachers. And so everything that he does when he portrays Clara as a teacher which starts in day of the doctor. Because she's a new character, all of us. Yes, that's right. We better give her something, another new father. Another mother, even though her mother was dead. Oh no, that was Linda, the wicked stepmother. Was that who that was? Yeah, yeah. Does she have an... I'm terrible that I don't want to see the crackers It's his attempt to do Annalise or Neres. But it just ends up Clara fur combination, doesn't it? I just feel like it's soup. I had no idea. Yeah, her family feel like, yeah, that's pantsuit. So that thing where Danny is with the kids. And he does that sort of really cheesy dad joke about, you know what are you children? And the kid goes, yes, sir. And he goes, you know, I suppose you think you're funny, Fleming. And it says, yes, sir. And his response is, yeah, so do I. You're dismissed. And so he kind of gets it. And there is that scene, which is very sort of heavy handedly exposition, you know, about how he's killed civilians and we become aware of that. But that just rings really true to me. Like that does seem like the way a classroom behaves. Yeah, like the unthinking way that children behave. No, because the other children are shocked by the question or even a little bit annoyed by it. And then the kid himself. is shocked by the response and everyone goes quiet. It makes me think of that 1st episode of Beautiful People where the kid asks the teacher and says, who does your hair miss the council? The counsellor. So great. And I'm like, oh, that's right. British children are. But even the stuff, even the stuff in the staff room rings true and can we just sort of pour one out for the headmaster who is going to be horrifically killed? episode of class later on? I forgot about class. Yeah, yeah, same headmaster. Yeah, it is. It is. Bleak. I think he's in Day of the Doctor, isn't he? Or is he? I can't remember. But so he introduces them here. But I think all of that stuff really works very well. And in fact, this is the 1st episode. So we get the 1st interaction between Clara and Danny goes away into a classroom and bangs his head on the table. Very sitcom. And you're very Moffat. Very Moffat. And intercutting between that interaction and then the consequences. And then he'll do the same thing from Clara's direction, in listen where Clara stuffs up their 1st date and we get to intercut between her reaction to that and it happening in real time. So it's a thing that he does. It is, that's why Moffatt, I think, gets the co-writing credit on some. Yeah, I think he was writing all the ongoing storylines and the other writers were writing the half hour action series. It's interesting, though. They had initially in the early draft of the scripts been intending for the characters to already be dating. Oh, okay. And so you would have lost all of that fabulous sort of sitcom. Oh, no, you need to meet cute. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was the right decision to... to actually show them meeting. But it completely... I love it and I think it's great, but it's it comes weirdly out of nowhere when you're in the middle of a thrust of what is an exciting Doctor Who episode. Like there's a Dalek that's been revealed. Oh my god, what are we going to do? We're going to shrink people and stick them in the Dalek and then I know we're going to go back and have some school hijinks now. And then come back and be excited again. And it's like, no. Like there's no ads in this show. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the point. I was thinking when you were saying that before. Is he, is this metoriting for these generation that has an iPad and a phone and a TV at the same time? And they don't mind the jump cutting because I find it really distracting. Yeah, maybe he's been watching so many YouTube videos, people talking about his shows, that he's gone, oh yeah, people don't care. Like people don't care if there's jump cuts in the middle of a sentence. And maybe the under 30s don't. Maybe. But, I mean, once the once Clara turns up on the Aristotle, we're pretty much just there on the Aristotle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the only episodes, like I haven't watched all the way through the season again, but the only episode... Well, I have but not for a while. The only episodes, I think, where we really focus on that is listen, which is taking place during their 1st date and then going to various other places, sort of, and then the caretaker, which is obviously where the whole thing kind of comes to a head. The moment of Missy also was a delight. Like, anytime I see Michelle Gomez. I just I melt. And directed by Rachel Talele. Yeah, yeah. Oh, so she did she do all of the missy scenes to observe another summer. She didn't. Ben Wheatley wasn't available to do the scenes in deep breath and in into the Dalek and so she just took his notes and did them. I'm really sad he didn't get to do any more Doctor Who. Like he only did these 2 and then went off and made high rise. Ah, okay. Like he, but yeah, I, I just think, because so many of the directors in the Moffat era don't understand story. And he obviously has a real handle on the cut and thrust of how this works, as does Talalay. Like she's great. You're right. Direction is excellent on this and it was actually set design. Oh, the set design is dull. It's just so white. And coming from that background myself, I always notice. I thought, I'll be back in the 80s, it's so white. But it's so many levels. But it's because the script says hospital and hospital says white. And I don't understand why it was a hospital ship that had become a warship. Like I kind of felt like that was something they were trying to labour. I think it's so that they have a reason to have the shrinking device on board. But also an excuse to have the 1st T and Aristotle will be the Red Cross. Yeah, and it just it just all felt like excuses. Like, you know, there's there are a lot of excuses in this episode for like, oh, let's have an excuse to have weird, like, eyeballs shooting at us in the corridor. They're antibodies. What do you think of the inside of the Dalek? It's weird. It was weirdly Star Trekian. Very, thank you. It was very TNG. Oh, I'm not going to be unkind and say enterprise, but it was very tangent. But I've got to say this time around, and I thought it was flat at the time, but this time around paying attention. I can really see, especially when you look into its bowels. And Matt Berry would say, that's a great shot for that budget. I'm really impressed. I think Clara crawling up and pressing all the buttons. Yeah, that was an impressive. like dynamic bit of work. That's the power station. I mean, the way that they sort of, you know, Matt in the Dalek balls and sort of grills and stuff and give it a kind of sort of verticality, which I think they sell. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think just using those design elements and, you know, it enables them to create sort of what seem like quite large spaces. But also, like, again, sometimes I feel like Moffat just gets a bit lazy and goes, oh, you know what was really good in the 2nd episode of Matt Smith is everyone fell down a pipe into a bowl of poo. Oh, we'll do it again. Because that's a good character moment. People falling in a bucket of poo. It's the 2nd episode as well. Second episode. Well, I think Russell does it in New Earth, which is tenant, 2nd episode. And I think it is something about just breaking out of the studio a bit. Like if everyone's in a big puddle. You know, then we're not, then we're not in, we're not in the studio. I got to tell you, filming when you're wet is the most terrific thing in the world. I just, I spent my entire 2nd watch through, just working out how damp they were at each point. And he does say the thing where we're going through this heated you know, like a decontamination tunnel and it's hot. So to justify the fact that, because he looks, he looks like an insane old man. He goes hair all sticking up in all these horns and stuff. It's like he's just washed your cat. And you've got Clara talking about just what a crazy old man he is as well at the same time. I think that's really great. But just gradually everything's sort of very neat and clean to the point where I was surprised that Clara even bothered to change clothes. It's very Rick and Morty, that sure. Yeah, it really is. I'm just 2 months out of the Pasolini festival. So any discussion of Salo is still really redolent when I watch this. It's just like the practicalities of filming something like that is it's like, okay, we're going to set up for a wide shot now. And it's taken you all day to do like 5 or 6 minutes of a show and someone has to come and apply more wet. So you're just sitting there. It's like, we're just going to spray, you know, with water. It's like I've been damp all day. Thanks. I just can't wait to be more damp. Moisturise. You spend the whole day wet. It is gross. And I regret ever writing. rain into my TV show. But do you why do you think they do it here? Like, I think is it? I think because it's easy. It's like it's a funny moment. Kids are going to laugh because they're in poo. Yeah, yeah. Like, it's implied that it's poo. It's dalek poo. It's just, you know, what do kids love more than anything is pull my finger. He's going to really lean into that next year for the Dalek 2 partner. The sewers are revolting in that. It's all a bit you can't do that on television. Yeah, yeah. Slime. It's marked. It's just, it's, it's a guffaw moment for a 10 year old. It's like, ah, they're covered in poo. I mean, I still think Capaldi's line in that is absolutely genius though. It's so brutal and so cruel. Oh, yeah. That's the other thing I find weird. It's like these moments of very low humour in, you know, we've fallen into a bucket of poo. And then these really grown up very cynical jokes. Like, I love that they're brought in Phil Ford, who's been writing a kids' show for the last 4 or 5 years and tried to make something that's a bit more accessible because Moffatt had, you know, gone off the reservation and had started writing the most grown-up science fiction ever. And it was like people were enjoying it, but I feel like if you were a kid, it's just confusing. It makes no sense. And here it's like, oh, no, let's get back to the things that kids love, which is falling in a bucket of poo and shrinking people and injecting them in. Like, you know, when I was a kid, that's fantastic for you, which is amazing. Like you love all that stuff. And so it's got all these big, silly, crazy science fiction ideas that kids love. But then this kind of nasty, cynical dialogue and you're like, and it's, you know, it's almost like it's set at a school just to go oh, yeah, no, it's a kids show. But I mean, I guess that's pretty close to what Doctor Who should be doing, isn't it? So it's the juxtaposition of the everyday life with something alien and operating on several levels, you know, Tom's thing, Tom's old speech about how the kids are watching this and saying, isn't this wonderful? And the older brothers, they're laughing at it and the parents are loving it as well. And so having, you know, very broad humour and very obvious things and then combining it with this sort of meditation on whether the doctor's a hero or not. That comes back to what Adam was saying. It's just clicked for me. That all works. when the centrifuge, the hub has charisma and charm and you adore him. And I think that's the problem in the 1st part of this season. Maybe the rating figures reflected at Jameson. But we are not... still quite high at this point. Yeah, but we're not being allowed to, and I get it. It's Tucker in an undertaker's coat, but do we love him? Is he a good man means, do we adore you yet? Tom, it was, we adored him from the 1st moment he called Harry imbassy. Yes, and skipped and did all. It's only qualified. Indeed. I miss it. miss all that. And maybe actually having more of Danny Pink earlier on in the sort of in the alpha Mickey Smith kind of role might have alleviated that. But when the doctor is working against or his own charm offensive It's quite hard to hug the show, isn't it, in the same way. So I think that we have this sort of weird situation where sort of 2 episodes after Clara's told the time lords off for not loving the doctor. And then 2 episodes later, she can't say whether he's a good man or not. I think, I mean, I think there is that, and I guess we just sort of assume the doctor's a different person now that Capoldi's been cast and, you know, all previous bets are off. I don't know. Like as an adult now, I actually really like this doctor. And I guess the bit where I'm not on board is the bit where he has to be slapped into kind of behaving properly. But, you know, we get the contrast between the way that he reacts to Ross's death by throwing him the battery and then just letting him get killed and then the way he responds to Gretchen's death where she nobly sacrifices herself. And he promises to name something amazing after her. Like, he's really on board by the end of the episode. I think that's what they're trying to do, not just with this episode, but with his character. They're trying to do that Colin Baker type portrayal, but soften him through the series and earn, earn, like, earn him the right to call ins off the doctor again, I guess, is probably, you know, a basic way of looking at it. And by the time you get to series 10, like he is a much more likeable character, you do go on a journey with this character, but are they laying it on too thick here? I think also maybe that was kind of the intention of the, the war doctor was meant to be a prickly kind of nasty doctor, but John Hurt just plays it with, he's so cuddly. Such. You're just like, I want to love you. I want to watch all of these episodes that we never saw. What a delight. Yeah, he's adorable. That scene with him and Jenna. It's so great. He's very sweet. Yeah, I, like, there is some discourse around the Capoldi doctor's portrayal and one of the writers of the series suggests that they weren't going into it with any intention of doing that. Just as I think Collins claimed that, you know, the layers of the onion were going to be peeled back and we would discover the Colin was lovely, there's no way anyone in the production or right, like Saywood's not coming up with that as a long-term theme is not going to happen. And so there are characters that never meet the doctor. It was basically Colin saying, I was hoping that they would. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't think they were doing that. I do think that they were going to have a Doctor Who was a bit more kind of Tom in horror fang rock. which is an absolutely valid way of being the doctor and a way of being the doctor that I really like. And so having a doctor who's not sentimental and is a bit rude in the way that he, I mean, that thing about, I must have been making that up to pass the time while other people were talking. That's Tom, isn't it? Tom not reading the pages of the script that he's not in. You know. So I think that that's what we're going for, and I think that's quite good, but I think that probably the beginning of the season goes at it from so many different directions. I mean, next week, we're going to have the is the doctor a hero thing and that's going to be much lighter and fluffier than this version. And also that weird jealousy that he's got going. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I also, I think I see what you're saying about that, but it kind of, it still makes no sense of him going and getting Clara. Like, just that action makes no sense of this character in this episode. It's like like, yes, he's got those coffee cups. But like when was the last time the doctor actually finished anything he meant to start? Yeah. That's just, it's just weird that he goes and gets her and brings her back. It just felt like a really strange... With the coffee. That he's forgotten and remembers in the middle of a Dalek adventure, he has to get the coffee he forgot from 3 weeks ago. Yeah, he hasn't seen her since Deep Breath. He's sent off for coffee after deep breath ends, I think. Yeah. So like the last thing she's had, last interaction she's had with him was Matt Smith ringing her up on the phone. Yeah. And now he's just turned up and dragged her inside a dale. Also, there's that kind of almost a callback to Clara Jane's leaving. Like I saw you 3 weeks ago in Glasgow. Yes. And fortunately, Moffatt is allowed to write the line. Glasgow, that's dead in a ditch. which is yet another thing about Glasgow that he's another way he's dissed Glasgow in the last few episodes. Look, it's a little plate class, guy. So, there is a sort of parallel, isn't there, where the doctor materialises around Journey Blue and rescues her from death, and then Gretchen gets rescued from death or she's dead, but then she's rescued by Missy. But I mean, then obviously the sort of being parallel, isn't it? Between Danny and the doctor. So they're not just being set up to oppose one another by the doctor's sudden antipathy towards soldiers. We're setting up the question of what their heroism entails. Yeah. I feel like sometimes Moffatt just has like a little bag on his table with, you know, storylines in it, which is doctor appears and saves someone, like, because it's night of the doctor again. Yeah, turning up and just saving some random person from a Dalek attack. Fridge magnet script drive. It kind of feels like that sometimes. It's like, oh, I need to make a Doctor Who episode, but I really want to write this romantic comedy about Clara and Danny Pink, but I've got to do some Dalek thing because I've contractually obligated to put them in once a year. So they've really missed a trick, they're not having one of those magnet games, which has elements of Doctor Who scripts and you make your own Doctor Who script on the fridge. And submitted to Big Finish. As a whole box set. Maybe that's how they do it. Trinity Wells. The further adventures. I should say it 3 times. There's no way Nick Briggs listens to this. They did do one. Nathan making a joke once in this about Trinity Wells having her own big finish. I was like, oh, hilarious. And I was listening to, I think it's a Captain Jackbox set and she has a whole episode. What? It really does. Just say it 3 times. The new suite has got her own show. I think that this is like Moffat's most RTD season. And Moffat can't do soap opera characters the way that Russell can. But Moffatt can do sitcom dialogue. And so he just puts those 2 into a romantic comedy. And I think at the end of the series, that doesn't quite work because, you know, horrible tragedy happens in episode 11 spoilers which doesn't fit into the romantic comedy genre at all. It's horrible. But I think he does quite a good job of the romantic comedy and I think that there is quite a lot of mileage out of it. I think that setting it up this way isn't a bad idea. I feel like the characters now belong somewhere and operating in a world and I didn't feel like that about series 7. at all, you know. Again, like I said earlier, I, I, once I unhook myself from what is going on with Clara, who she meant to be, like what is this ongoing storyline? Also, I feel like apparently when Capaldi was cast, he said, I don't want any storylines that are hanging over. from before. Like, he, like, as I think Moffat had intended to drag that crack in the wall thing all the way through to the end, which is why that final Matt Smith episode feels like 17 episodes jammed into one because he had kind of been given this edict of, I want a fresh page other than carrying over Clara. But like, but also Clara's ongoing storyline has stopped and she's starting. she a new person. Yes, she's a new character, the same face. The only thing that's left over is the woman who gives Clara the number which she phones at the beginning of Els of St. John, which gets referenced in time high. Yeah, in a way, that's like the master reaching back. Yes. Yes. The way this season is pulled together with all of this chaos is to have whatever that Game of Thrones tic-tac-toe thing is, the chaotics, Adam is Michelle Gomez. Well, Missy and Michelle Gomez, as we know, are the same person. And to have her reach back complain to the Smith era or to reach forward, we are totally on board with that. And we actually need that level of chaos, and I would say that this doctor actually requires it in the same way that Pertwi's doctor just really needed a big brandy balloon to get his fingers around and high roger. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's right. I think that's the thing that makes this work. We had series 7, which, you know, had 2 arcs, but was kind of apologising for both of them and one of them wasn't very good. And this one is, let's have the rom-com, which is something that Moffat can write, and let's have Michelle Gomez because she's incredibly great. And I think, you know, as most of these seasons have been suffer from Sherlock also being made at the same time. Yeah, yeah, you know, I feel like someone's right off the ball. As you, I'm sure you'll all discussed. We talked about metabilist. Well, dear listener, that's all we have time for this week. We'll be back next week to rob from the rich and give to filthy people with bad teeth in Robot of Sherwood. In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts and you can keep up with us at flights or entirety on Facebook, at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website, flightthroughentirety com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger Jody interterra, maximum power, and untitled Star Trek project. Adam, where can people find you? Uh, in the toilet at the pub? No. Richard on Twitter. Or my podcast, Adam Richard has a theory, and me, I am a memoir the meaning of the meaning of Mariah Carey. That's my favourite. Until next time, remember that you must keep breathing normally during the podcast listening process. Thank you very much for listening and good night. Good night. Good night. Bye. That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Adam Richard, James Selwood, and Richard Stone. Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. This episode, animosity and horror was recorded on the 8th of January 2023 and released on the 23rd of April. For those of you who prefer your social media with a bit less racism and transphobia, flight through entirety now has a mastodon account, which you can check out at FDE podcast at mastodon online. See you there. My theory is that John Pert, we can't pronounce planet names correctly. Because, so, of course, it's Spiriton, and per tweet pronounces it spired on, so he's just got money. Do we have it out? I think we probably have an hour. What do you think? And we're 56. I think that's... Plus, you went to the tour. No, I didn't. That was Peter has arrived. Yeah, I think we're done Yeah, cool. Yeah, yeah, because I've already recorded the outro. All I need to... Anything? Any more facts we need? I don't know, right? Like 7.29 million? That's not bad. Which wasn't much less than the previous week. Deep breath. Yeah. Yeah. No, everyone stops watching Doctor Who around about episode 6 or seven. The original edits. Yeah, had Rusty going up to the Dalek saucer. and blowing them all up. And they went, no, let's cut that out. So we can bring him back at the end of Christmas. Yeah, I feel like, yeah. I wanted I wanted a 3rd rusty. Like, it's weird that Rusty just turns up one more time. Well, it's just because he had nothing. That's him riding a completely on fumes. He's got nothing. Nothing in the team. He's emptied his bag of magnets. that 10 minute speech of Capaldi's where he's hurling himself around the set. Only children can know your name. Christ. Capaldi mansplains to Jodie Whittaker how to play the doctor when she comes on. There's, I, we had to watch that episode like months early and had it had no special effects and Mark gave it wrestling with a green balloon. Like, one of the goodies being attacked by a gerbil. Quite a delight. There's the title. Ad Kitten Kong. All right, I'm gonna... And that's the title.