Finger on the Zeitgeist

[00:40]

Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flights for Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast, which is just too stupid to be allowed to continue.

And yet here we are.

I'm Nathan.

I'm Brendan.

I'm Peter and I'm Adam.

Well, it's been a whole year since we last saw the doctor, or 24 years, depending on how you count these things.

And in all that time, we've loved and lost and maybe nipped out to the cinema to see Wanda Ventham's boy in one of those Marvel superhero films.

But now it's time for the doctor to come back or in other words, it's time for the return of Dr. Mysterio.

[01:42]

I remember going to the cinema to see this, Brenda.

We did.

Oh.

So, you, me, Richard, I think maybe James.

Calvin came.

Calvin came.

Rod came, and I remember that is the thing I've mentioned on the podcast before, sitting next to Richard in a Doctor Who screening in a cinema is an experience.

Because you will have your arm grabbed very forcefully at exciting moment.

Oh, no, it's delightful.

It's delightful.

And you did have to ask him to stop.

Yeah, I did have to say, that's your armrest.

That's my oh.

I was going to say, did anything exciting happen in this episode that warranted enough?

Also, are you sure you're not misremembering watching 1978 Superman?

Well, 1978 Superman didn't have a five-minute section before the episode spoiling how they do the special effect that leads into the opening title.

Sharmil film.

Oh, I'm pretty sure it also didn't have an erection joke.

[02:44]

There we go.

Rod didn't like it.

I seem to remember.

As I was leaving the flat this morning.

He said to me, which one are you doing?

I said, the Peter Capaldi Christmas one with the superhero.

He says, 0 yeah, the stupid one.

It's fun, but it's really stupid.

Yeah.

I think that's fair.

We were talking earlier, Peter and I, about how Doctor Who sometimes comes in with the very new thing about 5 years too late.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

And this is very much that.

In fact, it seems to be completely unaware of anything that's going on in the Marvel cinematic universe.

Absolutely unaware.

Yeah.

Like frightfully unaware.

And it's so weird because the previous showrunner was a comic obsessive and basically did pastiches of Marvel comics all the time.

And Stephen Moffat is cribbing from the 1978 Superman movie.

Yeah, which is not a comic.

No.

No, no.

[03:45]

And he actually says, like, I did read some of the sort of stuff around the publicity where Moffat talks about having been a great fan of comic books, but I don't think that that can be the case.

Or at least not for quite some time.

Yeah, he's what he thinks he remembers about comic books.

Just like what he thinks he remembers about Doctor Who?

Yeah, yeah.

Well, I mean, it is, it's the 1978 Superman film, which I did go and see in the cinema.

My father, my grandmother took me.

Yeah, my dad all of an age.

Brandon, you saw it on...

You're a foetus.

No.

No, no, no.

No, he's got a point.

No, no, I saw the Superman films on television.

I'm just trying to think.

I think the 1st superhero film I saw in the cinema was the 1st X-Men film.

[04:46]

Oh, okay.

Because of course, I've been obsessed with the cartoon.

Oh, I thought you were just a Hugh Jackman.

I'd been to Sunset Boulevard.

It was amazing.

For me it was James Marsden.

James Mars, yeah.

But the other thing, I think this crib's a lot from visually.

So maybe this is Ed Bez will get.

Yes. is the Raimy Spider-Man films.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah. some pretty obvious nods.

Yeah.

I think there's a sort of the way that the ghost is designed as well is a little bit kind of Tim Burton's Batman as well and the voice and stuff.

So there is some more recent stuff, but Moffatt's not responsible for that.

And Ed, do we know Ed's previous work?

In previous work, Adam, in the vapours.

Yes.

The band that recorded turning Japanese.

Oh my god.

No, I did not.

Yes.

Yeah.

Wow.

So he did he did a few earlier Doctor Who's.

He did the girl who died and the woman who lived, he will go on to do a few episodes of class, but yes, he was a member of the vapours who had a hit with turning Japanese in 1980.

[05:56]

Which was a euphemism.

Yes.

He delivered the woman who lived and they said, I know, let's get him back for Christmas.

Is this what you're saying?

I think so.

I mean, I have to say that I thought perhaps alone among people.

I thought that those 2 episodes were actually pretty good, and particularly the 1st one, and it is a kind of standard thing where Moffatt picks a director from the previous year and gets them to do the Christmas special.

Most famously, I think, Saul Metstein for the snowman, right?

And I think this is sort of reasonably, like this is kind of reasonably well done, but the actual sort of superhero thing is just from that rooftop scene in Superman 1978.

Oh, yeah. where I think it even has the thing where Lois asks Clark about whether he can see her underwear or something like that.

Yeah, all of that. and they're taking off of the glasses, like the, you know, revealing the thing and then deciding against it.

[07:00]

It's like this whole thing is lifted.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, off into the sky with Lucy.

It's the whole, you know, you've got me who's got you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I hope this won't put you off a career in journalism. recipes are from the helicopter. yeah.

And like stealing from the best, it is a superbly good film. absolutely brilliant.

Yeah, it's Richard Donner. great director.

We know if Russell had been in charge.

You would equipped from Superman 2.

Yes.

He would have proved from Supergirl.

Oh, my God.

The campest film ever made.

Speaking of a different iteration of Supergirl, I think that, yes, this is showing its roots and it shows Moffat's age.

But also this was the age of the CW superhero show.

Oh yes.

So this is absolutely grounded in like the Flash.

Yeah, on CW, which I think started a couple of years before, yeah.

Arab, which just started a couple of years before this.

And I think there's got to be the hero grant has got to be named after Grant Gustin, who it's the Flash.

[08:02]

Oh, okay.

And so I think that's what I was trying.

The problem is, it's quite charming and quite inoffensive, but doesn't really stretch for anything.

And so it ends up not so much feeling like Doctor Who's version of that show, but like a fairly middling episode of one of those shows.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

Like Doctor Who does great pastiche.

Like, you know, Gothic horror and, you know, comedy and slapstick and all that kind of stuff, but it just feels like this is not so much a pastiche as a, almost like a half baked parody.

Yeah, it felt like there was a lot more.

It could have been reaching for.

Whereas most of the things that does, you know, hanging upside down Spider-Man, et cetera. just feels like the lowest hanging fruits possible.

Maybe Motha was tired.

But also like even the direction, like that scene where it's all split screen and it goes like Angley's Hulk and you're like, yeah, I get that you're trying to do comic panels on the screen, but in the scene where everyone's just having a chat.

Like, is that the scene to break up with little weird panels?

Like it was...

[09:03]

I did like the appearance of the baby in the panels.

Yeah, reaction shot from baby.

But I think the baby is there just to indicate their concern about the baby.

Like when the subtext moves on to talking about the baby, the baby appears in one of the panels and stuff. did laugh at that.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, yes.

I think that's it.

You know, Doctor Who crashes itself into various stories and various genres and stuff and that's the thing that it does.

You know, what if X but Doctor Who?

And that's absolutely what Doctor Who is for.

And so this was kind of inevitable, but Moffatt's not the person to do it because unlike Russell, you know, Russell and Moffatt are similar ages, aren't they?

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I think just, I don't know, is it being gay, not having children?

There's something about Russell is up to date.

He just has his finger on the zeitgeist more than, you know, the zeitgeist flows from him.

He just, he is more versed in kind of the way that the modern world works.

So when you've got kind of social media, Russell will give you dot and bubble.

[10:04]

When you're looking at Wi-Fi, Motha will give you the bell sip syndrome.

Yeah, where he doesn't really quite understand why WiFi is.

Or where, you know, we're grandmother.

Yeah exactly.

Oh, you're going to pay money.

Do you know what I mean?

To license some song and Russell will do scissor sisters or soft sell or something like that.

And Moffat will do an Englishman in New York. you know, like just the most basic thing that can possibly be imagined.

I, yeah, it was weird because I was so hopeful when it started out with, you know, an actual John Byrne Superman comic.

I was like, 0 my God, this is amazing.

Then he drew on it and I was horrified.

I think that was deliberate.

Like, look at me ruining your childhood.

With this show.

But it was that moment I was like, oh, this is exciting.

And then the doctor not understanding the whole Clark Lois Lane thing.

And I'm like, I feel like we just had, you know, 6 years of the doctor being so up on pop culture.

[11:04]

How has it all just fallen out of his head?

It is also, I think, and it's at that point where it 1st starts, this is a reimagining of Capaldi's doctor now that we don't have Clara anymore.

And he is much sillier and much goofier and perhaps a little bit more, not in the way he acts or, you know, appears, but a little bit more like Matt Smith.

And, you know, his response to Grant telling him everyone knows that Clark Kent and Superman are the same person.

He goes, well, Lois Lane doesn't know and she's a reporter. which is absolutely, you know, silly and a Matt Smith kind of thing, a childish thing.

Even where he kind of refers to himself as the main one.

You know, I'm the doctor.

I'm the main one.

That's very Matt Smith as well.

And so I think we're moving away from that sort of grumpy, unlikeable doctor just back to Moffatt's original conception of what the doctor's going to be like.

[12:11]

Yeah, welcome to the best version of the Capaldi doctor because even though he's been great in the past and magnificent at various times.

This, he really catches the alchemy here.

I think he gets it really right and this continues in series 10.

So I have a weird history with this episode in that I had given up on Doctor Who.

I was like, yeah, it's not for me anymore.

I've outgrowing it.

This episode.

I think I watched sometime in January.

Oh, wow.

Like, you know, I saw it on Boxing Day on the screen at a pub and I was like, oh, that's right.

Doctor Who's on.

Like I was at that and probably would not have watched season 10 had it not become my job to watch season 10.

Yeah.

Oh, of course.

But yeah, I was completely checked out and thought, oh, this will be really good.

I'll get to go back and, you know, maybe reinvest in this show and I still hate it.

But adored Capaldi.

Like, you know, like, you know, in some of our least favourite Doctor 2 episodes ever.

[13:16]

The lead actor is amazing.

Yeah, time hash.

Yeah.

Incredible. thing is, they think I'm joking.

That's great. inscribable.

But yeah, it's like Capaldi is just great.

Like, and you know, you've got Matt Lucas, they're trying to chew on a bit of the scenery in the corner.

He's like, I won't be letting you have that.

I'm gonna eat that before you get there.

I mean, I think part of it is the presence of Matt Lucas as Nardol.

It brings out a different aspect of Capaldi's doctor and it gives him license to be freer and funnier because you've got this other presence in the screen who's being really big and huge.

And so it allows him that room to move.

But it's also the thing that happens when Romana comes along with Tom Baker because Tom Baker works because he has someone to rebel against. in Romana.

So sometimes he's this sort of austere authority figure. like in horror fang rock or something like that.

But it's also fun to see Tom on the back foot and Tom sulking and Tom being petty and stuff because he's got a grown-up in charge.

[14:17]

And you kind of have that a little bit with Nadol, like, and particularly going forward into series 10.

And so the doctor has someone to be kind of silly and reaction to.

And I think it works really well.

I also think like Nadol is literally the weirdest companion that the show has ever had.

It was a head.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So we don't see him arrive.

Like we saw him last episode a year ago.

Yeah, in the Husbands of River Song.

As ahead.

With Ramon.

Also ahead.

And I put those 2 things together in my head as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

So we never see him arrive.

He's sort of not really around in the 1st half of the season.

He sort of comes in a little bit and then they gradually sort of bring him in.

But he doesn't fit in the sort of list of the doctor's companions alongside Harry or Leila. like Nadol, you know, like...

[15:19]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it's very strange and it is kind of Moffatt's way of kind of deconstructing the shape of the program or something like that.

He's kind of canine.

He's kind of a pet.

Like, it's like weirdly competent, you know, thing.

Yeah, the tin dog.

Yeah, yeah.

But also, part of that is because for the way that they shot it, because they shot half of series, roughly, half of series 10 before they shot the Christmas episode.

And so they retrofit Nadol into the Christmas episode to introduce him into a season that he's already been filming.

Right, okay.

Yeah, exactly.

They'd shot the 1st four, possibly 5 episodes.

And they really loved what Matt Lucas was doing, and the very early scripts of Dr. Mysterio have Capaldi by himself.

Oh, he's not in there at all.

And then they write in Matt Lucas, and that's kind of why he pops in and out of scenes.

You know, he doesn't real, like he doesn't have his own plot line except for like being at the press conference at the beginning because it's kind of like, okay, we've already got the structure of the plot.

[16:19]

We need to introduce Matt Lucas without him disrupting things.

And of course, then you get Matt Lucas coming on set and ad-libbing.

Like, things like, ooh, elephant, complete adlid.

That's adorable.

Capaldi said an interview.

He's like, I love Matt Lucas's outlips.

The only problem is, you don't know they're coming, and he's Matt Lucas, so you burst out laughing.

It's great.

He was never part of the story.

He's just a 3rd draft Oh my god.

Imagine if he'd had that line at some point.

No, I'll do this.

I'm only a 3rd draft I mean, he does need to be there in the story as we have it because around about halfway through the doctor gets shunted off into that kind of exploring the spaceship plot.

He's doing something that's keeping him occupied, but keeping him away from kind of the main plot.

And so he does need someone to talk to while that's happening, I think.

Well, you know, I'm sure Moffatt originally had him constantly talking to Grant on the thing.

Yeah, weird, absolutely. ear thing while he's in 4 different places at once.

[17:20]

Yeah, that sounds that sounds plausible.

Isn't Grant cute?

Yes Iish.

Listeners, in case you were wondering in our spare time, we all fly around in blue rubber suits with big cheese on the front.

I'm wearing mine now That costume is terrible.

Oh, yeah.

And the mask is just a bafflingly weird idea.

This is how you know A, Moffat is not gay and B, not really into what's going on with superhero comics and superhero TV shows because we would have had at least 3 scenes of grant with no clothes on whatsoever.

Like, look how muscly I am despite not wearing the suit.

Yes, which is what they do.

It's like, I'm into the gym 400 times.

I'm showing off my apps.

That Simpsons joke isn't a pure Adam West.

It is.

You need to see there's a superhero under the superhero suit.

Yeah, yeah, because the superhero suit is all sort of quilted and padded and stuff, so there's no muscles.

[18:20]

So, and then the, like, what the hell is going on with the mask?

It's so bad.

Well, it's because he's good looking and you've got to hide that.

This is unrecognisable.

But I mean, we've all...

Haven't we lampshade at the idea of glasses and no glasses?

And the glasses and no glasses thing keeps coming.

So it doesn't look like the mask is actually necessary.

Why is it even there?

And it looks bad.

It's, yeah.

Method of transformation is Wonder Woman kind of spin thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's pretty gray.

And just even the sort of thing where, you know, like the glasses will just sort of land on the table in the foreground of the shot as he sort of disappears and stuff.

I think it probably needed bigger casting than Justin Chatwin.

This episode felt like it was, especially for Christmas, crying out for big stunt casting for both for both grant and Lucy, and that would have made much more of the romance as well.

It all feels a little bit sedate.

But having said that, I think he's quite charming, especially when he's playing Grant rather than, oh, yeah.

[19:23]

I want to say the Flash.

The ghost, the ghost.

Especially playing craft.

Like a forgettable name for a superhero.

It's a bad name, isn't it?

Like Ghost Man would have been better.

Yeah.

Like, I remember at the time thinking that he was going to call himself Doctor Mysterio.

But of course, Mysterio could have got them in trouble with Marvel. unfortunately.

So we know the origin of the title, Doctor Mysterio, don't we?

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

So in Spanish, the show is called Dr. Mysterio?

That's right.

And Peter Capaldi discovered that on that publicity world tour that happened in, I think, 2014, they were in Mexico, actually, and he discovered it was called Dr. Mysterio there.

And according to Stephen Moffat, he's like, Capaldi just would not stop saying Dr. Mysterio for 3 weeks.

The way he 1st says it and he does that little thing.

I'll have that, you know, like he really gets into it.

Again, that opening scene too, there he is with Little Grant as a kid, Little Grant is okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[20:24]

I mean, Moffatt's obsessed with child actors.

Yeah, yeah.

Look, I mean, I have a theory about children in Doctor Who.

They're terrible.

Well, children on television, generally.

But having just made 10 episodes of Hardquick's kids, I can agree.

Oh, wow. television are horrific.

That's 40 children.

But again, it's that softening the doctor's character, isn't it?

softening the doctor's character by having him with a child by having him be silly by having him be Santa.

And I just watching it again last night and seeing how the doctor, like gives him the little, you know, D-12.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And says, take this.

After giving him water, like it is so sort of brilliant.

Yeah, yeah.

And unlike a lot of Moffat things where it's like, well, of course I meant the other thing.

It's like, no, that is actually totally believable.

Yes, yeah.

And it's actually Grant who says it. you told me to take it.

And you're a doctor.

[21:24]

You're an doctor.

I've got a cough.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's the thing about Moth at Christmas specials.

Even the lesser entries like this and the doctor, the widow and the wardrobe have a cracking opening to them, which really works well.

I've been thinking about the, like, kids in Doctor Who, because Russell stays well away from them.

Yeah.

And I think it's because as kids, when we watched this show, there were no kids in it.

And we were kids and it was a grown-up show, but it was a kids show, but it felt like we were watching grown-up TV.

But as soon as you put kids in it, it's like, oh, no, this is a kid's show.

Four kids with kids in it.

I think, though, the reason that it never had kids in the classic series was that it never engaged properly with the real world, you know, so if it was Earth in the present day, we were on a scientific base, you know, do you remember when the guy, is it Watson calls home in hand of fear and says, say good night to the kids for me?

It's kind of like, oh, wait, he has children.

That's the thing.

Because Doctor Who never deals with anything domestic and real.

[22:26]

And when Russell comes along, he starts having like adult human relationships, which is a new sort of thing for the show to do.

Yeah, consequences.

Yeah, yeah.

And then and then we get children, which I think is is doing that a little bit further.

Yeah.

So it's bringing Doctor Who into our world in a definite kind of way.

It's weird. now gone back to no kids.

Has that a year of no kids?

Oh no, we had that terrible child in Boo.

That was a Moffat episode.

Oh, yeah, that's great.

There was also a practical reason because in classic Doctor, of course, Leah was shot at night in the studio.

And they're expensive.

Yeah, that's why I can tell you. can't have kids around for too long.

Yeah, exactly.

You know, doing long days.

No, because they become annoying.

Believe me, I used to work on high 5 surrounded by 400 or 5 year olds.

I'd never go in there.

Like, they say it's the law, but really, it's like, oh, no, get them out.

[23:29]

They've turned crazy after 6 PM.

Well, to give you an idea of what this set was like for children.

So we've got young Grant.

We've got teenage grant, both of whom could only be on the set for 7 hours at a time.

And an infant.

You had Jennifer, little Jennifer?

Or infants playing Jennifer.

Wow. 2 cents of twins.

And so sometimes if it was a short day, just one set of twins would be called, if it was a longer day, both sets would be called at different times.

So lots of juggling there.

You're forgetting one five-year-old standing on the shoulders of another five-year-old playing Nadol.

That's how he holds his head up.

He was firm, but fair.

I met Matt Lucas. lovely.

Yeah, I get that impression.

[24:33]

I love to read between the lines of, like, what's going on in production, and I like to imagine that at some point when Moffatt was, you know, starting out, that David Williams being the deranged Doctor Who fan that he is.

Yeah, upset Moffat. don't know why.

And so he cast Matt Lucas to look at him.

Yeah.

You can have one episode, David.

Yeah, I'm giving him the whole tense series.

Yes, yes.

He is great and we do love him, but going back to what we were saying about Docs who being about 5 years behind the curve.

Matt Lucas was huge about 5 years.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, he would have been far more affordable at this point.

I do feel like another sort of superhero touchstone for these is the 1940s Max Fleischer, Superman cartoons.

And particularly, I was thinking this morning, what is it about this episode that falls a bit flat?

And I think it's that the harmony show is villains.

[25:33]

They're not really Doctor Who villains because they just ran into the doctor incidentally last episode.

Yes.

And they're not villains for the ghost.

Like, he's not like, ah, yes, my old enemy's the Harmony show.

Ah, yes.

And, you know, that's what you see a lot in the Max Fleischer cartoons.

You know, he's up against gangsters or robots.

He's not up against, and I don't know if these people were in Superman's world at the time, but he's not up against Bizarro or Brainiac or needed a big sort of...

Yeah, and someone the ghost had fought before.

Like, it seems like the ghost is out there repairing Ferrous wheels and saving people from fires, which is great and amazing, but it's like, that's the 1st half hour of Sam Raimi's Spider-Man.

Yep, you know, and what we're there for is the fight with the goblin.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so the harmony show have always been weird to me because they come out of nowhere.

They get a cliffhanger ending here and then we never see or hear from them again.

Also, the ghost hasn't gone anywhere.

Like he still exists. technically.

[26:35]

But the doctor says that he'll take over.

The reason that the ghost has a role is because the doctor's been on Derylium for 24 years.

And because we haven't seen the doctor for a year as well.

So there's been this gap that hasn't had the doctor, which has allowed the ghost sometime to sort of do things.

And so I think we understand that the ghost problem is kind of solved.

He can't stop him from being a superhero, but he can take away the need for there to be a superhero.

So I think that's going to be a 14th doctor. going to be domestic.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And, you know, not not to mention the other consequence of this doctor taking year off is Ram loses a leg.

He gets one back.

God, class.

Sorry.

Still haven't finished.

So, I mean, the harmony shoals in a way works really well for an episode like this because it's brains in jars and...

Not a patch on the Keys of Marinas.

It's people who love the Keys of Mariners.

[27:36]

We know.

Brains in jars are awesome.

Why aren't they the brains from the Keys of Mariners?

If you're going to have brains in Giles, Just go, yep, the harmony show with the brains of morpho all along.

Oh my god, I would have loved that.

And then the doctor goes, I'm sorry, who?

I just love the little eyes in it as well, like that where the little eyes appear.

You know, not the big eyes on socks, but the little eyes looking out of the brain.

I think all of that's really great.

I think that the surgeon's advancing on people is really great.

I think that the scar, head scar, like Moffatt's sort of discovered that we can do this with computer generated things and we can have the backs of people's heads off or whatever.

Icky, sort of...

Yeah, yeah.

Like, but that's proper Doctor Who should be too.

Keeping the gun in there was amazing.

Yeah, yeah.

Just really...

Not where Captain Jack kept here.

So, I mean, they are kind of fun, but you're right.

They don't belong in the superhero episode.

No, it's hard to know what's going on here.

[28:38]

Yeah, and their plan seems to be, what?

is their plan?

So their plan is to blow up New York with a rocket ship because that's what people do to New York with a bomb all the time.

And then all of the world leaders run into the Harmony Shoals offices for safety because they've been built to stand a nuclear explosion.

And then they get their brains replaced by other brains and step 3 profit.

Yeah.

So it's it's the Slovene... the sabine again. meets the autons from the spearhead from space.

Okay, the autons have the right idea.

Human Anaquins in a corner of the studio.

The thing that I was surprised by was when we were suddenly in Harmony Shoals, Tokyo, and it's exactly the same set, but looking out into Tokyo.

Yeah, you can tell because of the Tokyo cityscape outside.

[29:38]

Oh, look, there's the tower.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There's more throng.

But you have to think, well, that's the same idea that Tobias Vaughan had, and we didn't could have mentioned that for some reason, but because the invasion is so much better. invasion is great.

That Tokyo scene actually leads into one of my favourite cut bits that is so unfortunate that we lost.

So after he's flooded the foyer with Pokemon to get rid of everyone, which, you know, you kind of go, actually, at the time, Pokemon Go. At the time, that would have been, yeah. one person in the office does come up to him and say, you can't do that.

And he's like, well, I am.

Oh, okay.

And then the doctor turns to him and says, do you fancy a cup of tea?

And the guy's like, yes.

Me too.

If you're making one, off you go.

And that's the tea that the doctor adopted.

Not a dollar drinking.

So the thing is, that still works as a really cool moment.

But in even earlier drafts, they then dragged around this poor Japanese technician for the rest of the story. making them tea.

[30:39]

Maybe that's what the doctor was speaking to.

The doctor was talking to.

I think I think possibly.

But yeah, it's just kind of like 5 minutes later they go, what are you doing here?

Tell me to folly.

So, the other thing that I want to talk about is what this is doing, because we've talked a lot, I think, about Moffat and his, you know, his interest in sort of gender politics and stuff, usually Moffat's men are sort of incompetent and there's a competent woman who kind of bosses them around and kind of puts up with them and that kind of thing.

And that's not, which is his real life.

Like, you know, he's always had many wives slash producers telling you, yeah, yeah.

Wives, mothers-in-law.

Julia Swala.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, yes, yeah.

And so here, though, we do have a man who is incredibly competent and dedicated.

[31:44]

So him being a superhero is essentially him being a nanny.

You know, there's that moment at the end where she says, I want you to put your superhero costume on.

And it's the glasses.

Yeah.

It's cute.

It's one of the only bits I liked.

Something I really like about that whole thing and the love triangle.

Some sort of picks up on something in Lois and Clark, because when Lois finds out Clark is Superman, she's more hurt by him not trusting her enough to tell her than she is by the actual deception itself.

And she's like, her whole thing is, I still would have cared for you if you were just Clark.

Yeah.

You know, but to care for Clark and Superman.

I was kind of dividing myself when I didn't have to.

And here, Moffat in his Christmas specials often has a tragic romance.

So you've got Kazran and Abigail and, you know, Kazran has saved but also wasted their time together.

[32:48]

You know what I mean?

You've got Madge and Reg, and they, like, they think it's all gone wrong, but then it's fine, and that sort of tells doctor, no, you're allowed to care about people, et cetera.

You've got River and the doctor last year.

You've got Clara having to choose between like a fantasy life with Danny or real life.

Yeah.

You'll have the 12th doctor and the 1st doctor next.

Yes, that's right.

But in this one, you know, I think that line from the doctor, some things are far too stupid to continue.

The doctor knows what it is like to ignore that connection and that love.

And he's sort of putting his foot down and saying, you are not making my mistakes.

And it goes back to what he says to Kazran. like, it's either kiss the girl or lock yourself in the room and make a new screwdriver.

Yeah, yeah.

And that's something I find is really lovely, especially for Capaldi's doctor, having been so emotionally distant early on, recognises that this relationship is important and needs to be saved and protected.

[33:53]

Yeah.

And to me, that's what sells it, is the doctor's interest in it.

Like, no, and I mean, no disrespect to grant or charity's performances.

There's nothing wrong with that, and I do believe the romance between them.

But the doctor telling us how important it is that really sells it to me.

And it sort of puts a button on that whole thing Moffatt's had with tragic romances.

I think I think the line.

There are some things, some situations that are too stupid to be allowed to continue, which is absolutely one of my favourite ever Doctor Who line.

Yes, in the whole run of the show is a kind of metatextual thing. because the mistaken identity thing is so dumb. and so obvious.

And like they're so stupid for not being able to pick up on it.

And the doctor kind of can't believe it.

But I do like, you know, there's that moment where they're sitting out on the fire escape and the doctor raises his drink and says, you know, thanks to the universe because he's not the worst person at romantic relationships, like in BC, which is really great.

[34:57]

Like, that's really great because it's the 1st time you get Capoli.

Well, no, I mean, we had the most romantic moment, maybe in Doctor Who's history, which is that end, you know, the final bit of last year's Christmas special, which allows Capaldi to be romantic in a way that he hadn't been able to be at all in those years.

So it's kind of finally allows River to be age appropriate.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I thought this was endearing, but it's sort of the story of the episode and that it wasn't really striving for very much.

The reason I wasn't invested was because there's really no edge to either Grant or Lucy.

They're both just quite nice people.

And there's nothing really to root for them to turn it around.

They just sort of, she just has to realise that he has him.

He's him.

Yeah, that's it.

It's almost like they've gone.

Can they do the accent?

That'll do.

Yeah, yeah.

He is American.

Yeah, he is.

Maybe she should have been, I'm just saying.

But it's just, yeah, I also get really, I don't know what it is when there's too many Americans in an episode of Doctor Who.

[35:58]

Sales less light doctor.

What am I watching?

This is not my show.

What's that that location?

The thing where Grant and Lucy live.

It's an outdoor sound stage in Bulgaria.

Right, okay.

Yeah, okay.

And Justin and Charity, when they heard, oh, overseas shoot, they thought they were going to New York.

Yeah, no problem.

It's like we're going to Bulgaria because A, it's closer and also B, it's a film set and we don't have to close down a New York City block.

Do you have any idea how much that cost?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Doctor Who was not going to be out?

And then they hired a local actor there for to double for Capaldi in the long shots of like him on the...

There's a cut line from that bit on the fire escape when he's chatting to Grant about the situation and the doctors have something wrong lines off.

So let me get this straight.

Your cunning plan in looking after your unrequited high school sweetheart's baby is to then disguise yourself as a superhero, to distract her from you.

And it goes, yeah, that's about it.

[37:02]

There are some situations they're too stupid.

I think too, when I was a kid, I just loved Margot Kidder.

Oh, she was so so superb.

And there was just that sort of slight hysterical edge and the chain smoking.

The chain smutching. for God sake.

Like when he looks at her lungs and goes, oh, not yet, but it's not great.

Unbelievable.

She was so, so superb.

And we do, there is a sort of an attempt.

She was of that era, wasn't she?

She's like, Marion Ravenwood in Raiders of the Lost Us.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They sort of the female lead with real gumption.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's like, I am not a damsel in distress.

Please don't save me.

Yeah, yeah.

Whereas, I mean, I think Lucy's quite good.

And I don't dislike the Mr. Huffle scene, which everyone else seems to sort of really hate.

Really strange.

It is very strange.

It would have been improved if she was doing it to Nadal, not this.

[38:04]

Yeah.

I mean, I think the point is, like, no one quite knows how to play it, and clearly there's a toy that Moffat's discovered and he wants to do a beer.

And so because it makes this sort of human squealing. you know, the doctor is.

It's a bit like Tom saying that he can't bear to be tortured by someone with cold hands. where what's his face?

Peter Halliday.

Peter Halliday's using the thumbscrews on him.

So it's a little bit like that, you know, like it's got a sort of human squeal, but it's sort of quiet work.

But so she is a bit kind of demented, you know, like and a bit she's fierce, but it doesn't really properly land for some reason.

Yeah.

It's, you know what?

I think that I don't know.

You guys went to see it at the cinema.

It feels weird as an episode when you think there was nothing for an entire year.

Yeah, yeah.

This is your 1st Doctor Who back.

And you're like, this isn't really Doctor Who.

Yeah.

This is like a superhero thing with Doctor Who in it.

Like, it's not, and everyone's behaving really strangely.

[39:06]

Well, and they shunt him to the side.

Yeah, like he's off fascing about on that space.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I think I think that's that's the thing.

Like, there's so many different things in this.

It's a superhero thing and it's a Doctor Who thing and it's a screwball comedy and it's a romance.

And we haven't had Doctor Who on for a year.

This suffers, I think, a bit from what I call legend of the sea devil syndrome.

Yeah.

In that, it's not crap.

Wow.

If this was episode 7 of a full season, I think we would feel about it a lot more fondly, as as a fun romp, because that's the thing, all of the things I look at this and go, oh, that's not great.

It's not crap, as you say.

It's not bad.

We're laughing about it.

And I think we're not laughing.

We're laughing about it more than we're laughing at it.

Yeah, you know.

And even the Mr. Huffle thing, which is so freaking bizarre.

Yeah, so odd.

And unnecessary.

Yeah. and then they make a Mr. Huffle toy.

Oh yeah.

[40:07]

But do they make a ghost action figure?

No, no.

Do they make another doll action figure?

No.

Are they making action figures at this point?

No, and I'm still not over it.

The other thing that Mr. Huffle does is he's used as a symbol for Capaldi's heartbreak about losing him a song.

And like this twice. where we kind of mention how he feels pain.

And then we get a shot of Mr. Hartful.

Why are we doing that?

Are you sure it was good?

Are you sure it was a good choice for Ed to come back to directness?

Yeah, I don't know.

But is this the tail wagging the dog?

Does Mr. Huffle approved as a toy?

And they went, can we get it in the show?

Maybe all their plans went wrong because true story.

Someone had bought up the domain for Mr. Huffle.com so that the BBC couldn't.

It wasn't me, by the way.

Joining the podcast family.

It's just 50 minutes of squeaking.

[41:10]

It's a commentary one.

Watches whole episodes and just squeaks and bits that are annoying.

Just squeaks and Simon saying I don't think it was very good.

7.34.

Well, dear listener, that's all time we've got for now.

We'll be back in a few weeks' time for the start of Peter Capoldi's last year as the doctor, with a new job, a new mission, and a wonderful new companion in The Pilot.

In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, flightthroughentirety.com, where you'll find our social media links, as well as links to all of our other podcasts, including our other Doctor Who podcasts, 500-year diary, and the 2nd grade and bountiful human empire.

[42:27]

Until next time, remember man, you don't get a trophy for stacking the dishwasher correctly.

Thank you very much for listening and good night.

You get to live.

Good night.

Good night.

Good night.

That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffith, Brendan Jones, and Adam Richard.

Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

This episode, Finger on the Zeitgeist, was recorded on the 21st of July 2024 and released on the 25th of July.

Since we last spoke, Flight Through Entirety celebrated its 10th birthday on the 26th of May 2024.

To celebrate this milestone, we put together a history of the first 10 years of the podcast, which you can check out at flightthroughentirety.com slash 10th.

The funny thing being, our dishwasher is just a cupboard because rod has so much crockery.

Oh, our oven's a cupboard.

[43:30]

And the microwave is a cupboard.

And the air fryer is also a cupboard.

This is a bit of a drink. recording a company.

Yeah, yeah.

Cook in the closet.

I wonder what that jelly mould was doing there.

When you brought up the dishwasher, I was like, 0 my God, are we doing it as time goes by podcast?

There's a lot of dishwasher chat in that show.

Yeah, it was someone's topic on hard quiz.

I had to watch a lot Oh wow.

Dishwashers.

No, as time goes by.

I hardly know it.

Oh my god.

That joke would be sophisticated and funny.

For that joke.

No, is it?

It's Judy Dench and Jeffrey Palmer.

Oh, writing.

Oh, wait, it's not the one.

What's the one where Geoffrey Palmer regenerates into Peter Bowles?

Oh no, that's the other way around, but that was...

No, yeah, it is.

Yeah, no, because Peter Bowles is the person you get if you can't catch Jeffrey Palmer.

Yeah, that was the Penelope Heath one.

Executive stress?

[44:30]

Maybe.

Yeah, yeah.

Something like that.

As time goes by, as what they call a gentle British sitcom, which means a joke race of like one every 5 minutes.

Yeah.

Sometimes one every 5 episodes.

Maybe just the same joke over and over.

Frequently it's Judy Dench, peeling potatoes or putting something in the oven.

Well, now, you make me want to watch that.

She does a lot of appealing.

There is actually early on a very gentle, gay panic subplot in there because Jeffrey Palmer thinks that his male publicist might have a crush on him, but it's diffused by the fact that the male publicist's response is, I'm not by, lie.

Oh my God.

Oh my goodness.

But like he's a 90s yuppie. the whole of the 1st season.

Actually, does he have a crush on the daughter, the secretary, or is he gay?

If he's gay.

Why doesn't he have a crush on Judy Dent?

And the whole thing starts when Jeffrey Palmer goes out on a date with Judy Dencher's daughter and then realises he used to date them up.

[45:33]

In the 40s.

It's gross.

All kinds of it.

I remember going to the cinema to see this, Brendan.