Pearl Clutching

[00:40]

Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flightthrough Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast consisting of 2 tones of different frequencies presented separately to each ear, which elicits the sensation of a 3rd tone oscillating at the difference frequency of the 1st 2 tones.

I'm Nathan.

I'm Brendan.

I'm Peter and I'm Simon.

Well, we haven't had a haunted house around here since 2013.

If you don't count those scenes in that episode in 2014, and so we're just about due for another one.

David Suchet's not busy, so we'll get him in.

And we've got some thrilling new audio technology.

One of the sound guys wants to try out.

So let's see what happens when we mix that all down as we discuss knock knock.

[01:57]

I've got nothing.

You know, it does concern me that people who say that Doctor Who's budget should be cut and you'd have every week a haunted house and it would be amazing.

We might just be setting ourselves up for a whole season of knock knocks.

What I actually found it doing quite a lot was reminding me of a much better Doctor Who story and that's ghost light.

And so the exteriors of the house have a fake computer generated tower, sort of charting up from the middle of it.

And then we had fake computer generated lightning for a lot of it, for atmosphere.

The corridors, I think, were very, very similar with all of that dark wood and stuff.

But somehow, a haunted house, I think, really lives or dies on atmosphere, and it's hard to tell because I haven't got any real concrete claims to make, but I just didn't feel the atmosphere here at all.

I did feel atmosphere.

[02:57]

It's one of those times where it all looks fine on paper, everyone's going through the motions and doing what they're supposed to do, but it's just, and it's not terrible.

No, no, no, no.

It's fine.

Yeah, it's fine.

And I think that's the problem with this.

And I think the problem with much of this season, or at least much of what I've watched of it so far, is it's fine.

I think it's in need of at least one or 2 more drafts and a bit more thinking as to the resolution and everything like that. you know what I mean?

Yeah.

The word that came to mind for me was vanilla.

Yes, there was a vanilla.

It doesn't.

Yeah, Ghostlight has this delicious current of black humour running through it.

Whereas this didn't, this felt quite lightweight.

And I did kind of appreciate it for having a bit of a sitcom style setup, but I'm not sure that was the tone that we were going for.

No, in fact, for me, that's the bit that worked.

Let's talk about the beginning of it.

I really, really liked the beginning.

You know, the normal way to get someone to sleep in a haunted house in a sitcom is, of course, if your crazy aunt makes it a condition of inheriting in the world. you know what I mean?

[04:05]

You have to stay the night in a haunted house first.

And here, like, I just thought it was very sweet, the fact that now we have sort of Gen Z people or I've completely lost track.

But what later were up to?

Yeah, yeah, but lovely young people trying to rent a flat, and of course, that's impossible.

And there's that wonderful line where one of them says Shireen possibly says, what do other people do?

And Bill says, other people have money.

And like that horrible real estate agent in the terrible suit who is showing them around these places.

Rolling his eyes to see.

Actually, that's the thing.

It, not actually a haunted house story.

It's trying to be an 80s horror film.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And there are actually a difference because Ghostlight has that Victorian, I mean, it is set in the Victorian era, but it's not just that it's got the flavour of a Victorian ghost story.

Whereas this has got the flavour of those 80s nightmare on Elm Street type type things.

I think that's what it's going for.

Because for me, even though, yes, that earlier part, those early sequences where they're hunting for the flats are great and they're really well done, you then need to sort of adjust your idea of what the episode's going to be once they arrive at the house.

[05:17]

And with 45 minutes, you just don't have enough time to change your idea of what's going to be happening.

Yeah, I think that's it.

There isn't enough time to build atmosphere.

So we're doing a haunted house thing, but we're doing it in a traditional 45 minute episode that's just full of dialogue, full of people talking to one another.

And so there just isn't enough time to build up tension, I think.

But going back to the sitcom thing, I think the other thing that really works is the characters.

Can I just say Shareen, Pavel, Harry, Felicity, and Paul.

Yeah, she didn't think I could do that.

No, I certainly can't.

So I'm glad one of us stay...

In fact, one of my favourite moments is Bill's trying to get the doctor to leave.

And he says, no, no, I'm going to stay up with Simon and she just says, Harry. and Florence.

Felicity.

And like it's probably an editing thing, but the comic timing of it is absolutely perfect.

[06:18]

Like I roared with laughter.

And it kind of makes fun of the fact that they're sort of-ish red shirts in a way.

But they are really, really well characterised.

And it's not the writing.

It's not that sort of Russell T. Davis characterisation where he gives a character a thing and then you kind of know them quite well.

It's just getting a group of diverse and attractive young people.

You know, they have different accents.

Um, Harry, perfect diversity.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Harry's very northern, gorgeous.

Paul is ridiculously tall, like absurdly comically tall.

Expendable.

Unexpendable.

Like, they're really good.

Like those characters are great.

I really like them.

Yeah, yeah.

Yes, I could want to live in that house.

Yeah, yeah.

And you know, some of it's to do with the riceing, but I think a whole lot of it has to do with the casting.

They're so immediate and it's just cast really well.

They all inhabit those characters with just like one or 2 beats.

Yeah, yeah.

That's part of the thing of, yes, it is kind of a sitcom setup.

[07:22]

But also going back to that point about it also being an 80s horror film.

The thing with teens in 80s horror film is at least half of them are in some way unlikeable.

So you're kind of going, oh, yeah, they're going to bite it now.

And none of these people are unlikeable.

So you automatically lose that fun part of a horror film.

Yeah.

Where you're cheering for someone to die.

Yeah.

Exactly.

There are 2 obvious horror references for me in this.

And one is the evil dead when Felicity runs outside and is overtaken by a tree and obviously it doesn't go full evil dead.

And for those of you who haven't seen it, I'm not going to go into detail because it's quite disturbing.

Um, then I think at the end there's also some very clear comparisons to Psycho.

Well, very clear comparison.

Psycho.

Yeah, so I was going to bring that up.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I mean, all of that stuff is terrifically fun.

They're fun to watch, you know, and and I think Bill and the doctor work really well in this context too.

[08:24]

And, you know, we've talked about Bill kind of undermining the show with the sort of genre aware questions that she asks.

And so here we get the Time Lord reveal.

Like it's episode 4 and we get the 1st mention of the Time Lords and stuff and she reacts properly to the Revelation that they're called Time Lords because that's stupid.

And with Terrence Dix having a bad day, I think.

Well, no, it's just a different era.

It's just the fact that there's an awful lot of I just love watching all the pearl clutching in the modern era when it's brought up that he's a time lord because all the people, especially the people making the program, have this kind of aversion to the, oh my god, he's a lord. that means he can't be one of us.

Yeah, I was terrible.

I got these lord, he's on it.

That means he won't be relatable and stuff like that.

But they always have to go through some kind of charade excuse about it.

In fact, I think, you know, in a very, very bad episode, the caretaker describing the doctor as aristocratic, I thought works really quite well.

Do you know what I mean?

Like it's a good critique of the way he sends people to their deaths.

[09:25]

Then, you know, it's not fair or whatever, but it actually works.

Here, it is just sort of mocking the kind of slight silliness of the law, I think.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I love his, you know, know, we don't have big hats, but we mostly have big hats too.

I like your reference to pearl clutching, a fair amount of that happens in this episode.

Yes, exactly.

In fact, we talked about sitcom.

I think a lot of the comedy moments in this episode come from Peter Capaldi and the doctor, because the doctor placed in this situation with a bunch of young people house sharing is like putting him into an alien society.

He does not know what to deal with and who to relate to and how to come across as normal in that situation.

But again, it's a bit like the lodger action.

A little bit like the lodger.

Yeah, yeah.

And all of that works really well.

Moffat in one of the sort of additional bits of video that was released at the same time, he says that what he wanted to do was have the TARDIS be used for a normal thing.

[10:28]

And so Bill calls the doctor and says, can you help me move into this house and he materialises around all of her stuff and then sort of drops it off.

And it just reminds me of what I think is a genius moment in time of the doctor where Clara wants to use the TARDIS because she hasn't cooked the turkey into.

And so she needs a time machine so that she can get it right. cooked by the time wins or something.

And so all of that's really fun.

You know, he's kind of a bit right when he says he doesn't look old enough to be her grandfather.

It's part of Moffat's weird preoccupation with Capaldi's age.

We saw it all the way back in deep breath where he kept talking about how old he was.

He's not that old.

It's like they regret it at the moment they cast him or something.

Yeah, see that making excuses for us.

I mean, Kapold is 57 here.

He is Pearl Mackey's dad, not her grandad.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, well, Pearl Mackey's 29.

Right.

But I think she's playing it younger.

But what's fun is, of course, putting Capaldi's doctor on the back foot, given that he's so imperious and so in command.

[11:33]

And, you know, it's like putting pertry on the back foot.

It just works terrifically well.

Love them for the same reason.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it's sort of nice too that the doctor doesn't get that all these young people might just want to spend time away from this old person.

Yeah, yeah.

And remember when he gets when he gets Bill's phone and Bill is desperately trying to hide the fact that she likes little Mix, who do the song at the very opening thing, and she's trying to hide it and saying, it's Spotify, it's probably just random, and he goes, no, no, there's a whole playlist here.

He's actively embarrassing her by mistake just by not quite being able to read the signals.

And that brilliant moment where he crunches on the cracker and everything pauses for 3 seconds for him to be really awkward eating it.

Yeah, yeah.

He tries to crunch on it quietly, doesn't he?

I think it's in the middle of the landlord's speech, but all of that stuff is really just tremendously good.

It's a little bit again, like the sushi in Dr. Mysterio, which was so awesome.

I mean, I'm doing a bit of a tod.

[12:35]

Now that we're talking about it.

I think I do like it a bit more than I thought I did.

No, it's perfectly fun.

That's why I say it's fine.

I don't want to say this.

This is not a bad episode.

No, I'm just not saying it's not a great episode.

Yeah, vanilla.

Vanilla.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think perhaps is trying to do too many things at once.

And so provides a perfectly entertaining 50 minutes of all of them, but it's, you know, it's not a great horror episode of Doctor Who, and it's not a great comedy episode of Doctor Who, but it is perfectly fine.

Like, it's gone up a little bit in my estimation, like Smile did a couple of weeks ago.

I think another big problem is watching again, it's like, I don't have a good idea of the geography of the house.

And like when you get stuff like Psycho and Halloween that rely on, you know, being in this one location, you do end up with a good idea of where the rooms are and okay, if she's in here, then the killer's there and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

And I don't know if that's careless direction or if it's deliberate to try and be unnerving, but instead it just takes me out of it a bit because I find myself thinking, oh, so Bill's saying go up from here, but I thought we were on the 2nd floor and you can't go up to the tower.

[13:51]

Where is the tower?

And at one point, Bill's like, the tower must be over here.

It's like, okay.

It's interesting that you say that you don't quite know where you are in the house because I didn't really actively think that this, but there was sort of like that passive thought at the back of my mind at times.

Like, are we supposed to, is the house actually rearranging itself?

Um, in that, in that...

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

For example.

And yeah, so I just, unfortunately, I don't think it's deliberate.

I think it's just the fact that they haven't worked it out.

And I think it doesn't help the fact that different parts of the house look like they're completely different locations, which they are.

Right.

Yeah.

And I think that's the problem.

They look too much like they're completely different place. 2 locations in a set, isn't it?

Oh, is it?

And you've got the one of the locations is the Wester Drumland's house from Blink, apparently.

It's next door to it because apparently...

Yeah, I looked this up when I watched it.

The, um, it's so it's like a 70-tached Gothic mansion and the blink was the other half of it.

Yeah.

But I think that they actually, the seller in blink was a set, but I think they use the seller in the blink house for knock knock.

[15:00]

Yeah, it's all very incestuous.

But I think that doesn't help the idea of internal geography.

But the thing about location is always a thing in those films like Brendan was saying, you need to know where the characters are and where they're going to escape to.

So there's that moment of, no, don't go through that door.

That's only the stairs to the cellar. you know, And so it helps to build anticipation, whereas here they could just be wandering around on different sets.

Exactly.

And they are, yeah.

The other thing that doesn't work too, is that there is this gimmick that the ward is alive, which I think is really good, and it's a great idea, but they never actually make it happen.

So there's a few scenes where, for instance, the doctor notices that a door has sealed itself shut, like the wood has grown over, but they've made no attempt to make it look like that in any way.

They've done nothing.

They've just sort of had the door.

And then.

No, no, no.

You can see that the side is all like where the and where the gap would be is kind of like filled in, like like with, you know, bog filler or something.

It just doesn't quite work, I think.

[16:01]

And the same with the closing shutters and stuff like that.

There's a good scene, I think, outside when Felicity's running away and she runs past and all of the shutters of the doors closed by themselves.

I think that's really good.

But I think, you know, making the wood grow and do things like there's just not quite enough money to sell it, I think.

They have to be too sparing with their effect shots.

Yeah, I think so.

And then there's the effect shots of the bugs.

Yeah, and it's very very CGI.

It's very bad.

I mean, wood lice from space.

It a step up or down from the tractors.

I don't think it's necessarily a money thing.

I think just sometimes there are ways of doing these effects and sometimes like the CGI when you're building a creature in CGI and I think I just think some people are a bit better at it than other people.

And maybe some creatures are easier to achieve than others.

And I think the regularity of like a wood giant wood lice maybe makes it look too CGI because it all looks a bit too perfect.

I think the action.

[17:02]

And there's no slime and goo.

There needs to be kind of some slime and goo.

I think in close-up they actually look fine.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, it's yeah, it's not swarms of them that look terrible.

Yeah, but it's also it's also the way they're overlaid on whatever it is. that's what I'm saying There's something wrong.

There's just something wrong.

It's like those scenes from the mummy, like the early CGI scenes back in 2000 or the 90s whenever the original mummy was with those scarab Beatles kind of going over everyone and it never looks rice.

It just looks like it's been built in a computer.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But, you know, we're spoiled.

Yes, yeah.

That's true.

And of course, where it will come to it, but where Doctor Who gets it right is in, say, Eliza, where it melts out with live action and a real person, and that looks great.

I suppose it does.

I think we're even just spoiled by last week because last week did create that world in a really vivid way where you couldn't see the seams.

Yes, it looked very, very good.

I wonder why.

And even the week before, actually, where we dropped that Spanish museum into the middle of a Bali.

[18:06]

Oh, that looks great.

It looked just incredible.

Yeah, you know.

But if we're watching Doctor Who for this movie.

Yes, you shouldn't be watching Doctor Who.

Even now.

Can we talk about David Soucher?

Are we up to are we upset?

Yeah.

Great piece of casting.

Obviously, you know, one of those actors. why has it taken this long for him to be in Doctor Who kind of thing.

But I want to sort of say how great he is in this kind of role.

And it suits his Poirot acting as well because it's a heightened kind of acting.

It's not over the top.

There is a difference between heightened and over the top.

And I think David Souchey delivers what I would call a perfect Doctor Who performance in here with that level of a heightened performance.

It's understated heightened performance.

Like, he underplays everything.

[19:07]

Not a single line is. he's obviously so much of a better with the exception of Capaldi.

He's a better actor than any of them that are there.

And it may partly be because he's, you know, decades older than the rest of the cars, but he's delivering his lines in a way where the lines are meant to be heard rather than in a way where the lines are just meant to pass the time so we can get to the next line.

But, you know, part of that, I think, is that he has to look old-fashioned.

Of course, no, exactly.

So he doesn't know who the Prime Minister is.

He's wearing an old-fashioned suit.

He gets on that, yeah.

And he's doing sort of old-fashioned presentational style of acting as well.

Exactly.

Yeah, and that's what I love.

And that's why I think it's perfect for you to hear.

I knew you would love it.

And I do too, because it's a very classic series performance.

That's what I was trying to say.

Actually, it really helps because he's, you know, we often talk about Doctor Who doesn't work when not all of the cast are on the same page.

I don't think the cast here are on the same page and it's deliberate because all of Bill's friends are presenting with those very modern style performances and he's doing an old-fashioned documentary.

Yeah, but that works because he's not, it wouldn't work if one of the kids was doing separation.

[20:09]

Yeah.

But again, it's the way television performance is done. has changed over the decades.

And this David Souche performance is a throwback to that, but I actually think the Doctor Who, even in the modern era, works when we have actors delivery.

Certainly when they're the villains delivering that style of performance rather than the hammy over the top style, which is what's so often they fall into the trap of doing.

It's great, isn't it?

Because he, like, I am not super familiar with the Poirot.

No, I definitely watched it.

I have watched some.

I remember a thing called Blot on the Landscape from the 1980s, which was dramatisation of a Tom Sharp novel starring Geraldine James and he was the eponymous blot.

And so that's where I knew him from...

Yeah, a lot on the landscape in the 1980s, Terror of the Verbals.

No, that's great.

That's just one of several blocks.

Don't single out that.

That's it.

I'm out.

That body's in that.

Exactly.

The best thing about it. absolutely.

[21:09]

That's not an exaggeration.

Absolute truth.

But there's a warmth to him, like every so often, that smile is so genuinely warm and it is fake.

Like it is to lure them in, but it works perfectly well.

But also the mood shifts, you know, don't go up to the tower.

Yeah, that's that, again, and it's done with the cuts too, as he turns around, the visual cut. speaks to me.

Even that suit is the same colour as the wall panelling.

When he 1st appears inside the house.

It looks like he's emerged from the wall because he's kind of disappearing into the wall because his suit's exactly the same colour. like Homer coming out of the hedge.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, no, I think he's extremely good.

I do think he is really great.

I do want to give props to the actor who plays Harry though.

Colin Ryan.

Oh, he sounds good.

He's so good.

And he is filling the role, which I think is lacking in the modern era of the pseudo companion.

Temporary companion. temporary companion, which we just see so little of with these single episode stories and he does it so, so well.

[22:14]

And I do get upset when he gets eaten.

He gets scared so convinced. like he does a proper Doctor Who scared companion act.

Yes. in the best way.

He has that great reaction shot where they're all sitting in the living room and there's noises from the kitchen and it's behind him and he just looks around the chair with this sort of scared look on his face. just amazing.

It's got great big eyes acting.

Friend of the podcast, Corey McMahon texted me after this episode went to air and said, we've been lacking a twink companion for Doctor Who.

He said, we've had Russell.

Why didn't we have a twink community?

That's what Adrick was supposed to be.

Patrick's bum was always too big to be a twink.

But the closest I can think of would be Adam.

Adam, yes.

Adam was definitely.

And so there was some stuff where they wanted Harry to be Harry Sullivan's grandson.

And he does mention his grandfather, who just doesn't mention him by name.

His grandfather's boyfriend who tries to steal part of the Great Wall of China.

Yeah, Harry's enjoying his retirement, having committed a war crime by inventing that pathogen to target the Zigon.

[23:20]

Zygons.

Yeah.

Was that the hush hush thing he was doing at Port and Down?

Yeah, that's right.

So, yes, that was in the script for a very long time.

It was actually mainly dropped from writer Mike Bartlett's perspective because this is, to date, his only Doctor Who.

He's most famous for creating and writing Dr. Foster with Saran Jones, but he was a huge Doctor Who fan and his youth and Harry was his favourite companion and he sort of went during the drafting process.

He's like, okay, but how many people out there also remember Harry Sullivan, and is it just going to sort of bog down that scene where young Harry's also called Harry Sullivan?

And what was going to happen was when the doctor's listing the names at the end, he would say, oh, Pavlo Ivanov and da da da.

And Harry.

Oh, Bill, Bill.

Oh, it's awful.

I don't know his name.

Sullivan.

Harry Sullivan?

You know, then it's also happening in this big dramatic scene that we get the name drop of someone, the general public may not remember.

So he just went, I'm just gonna...

[24:21]

I'll tell the fans I did it.

Yes, I think all that would have interfered with the flow. such as it is.

Yes, now that you say that all sounds like a lot less fun than I thought.

But you know, Harry Sullivan was.

That doesn't necessarily go against what we knew about Harry.

It's one thing taking a character who's been established and sort of turning them into an entirely different thing.

But Harry's sexuality was never stated in the show and his relationship with Sarah was very much kind of brother and sister, best friends.

Yeah.

I, I think the, the Port and Downs thing was terrible, like making Harry, the creator of a pathogen to explode Zygons.

I thought was should have been cut.

That's awful because that violates his character.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Thanks, Brandon.

I didn't hear that.

If I could say something about David Souche as well.

Because I've seen all of his Poirots.

And of course, one of the early ones, wasp's nest features a young Peter Capaldi in clown makeup.

[25:23]

Oh my goodness.

And they'd worked together on one other thing as well.

And apparently sort of between shots, they were they were chatting about their mutual lover photography.

Okay.

David and Peter, which is lovely and very sweet.

I also wanted to mention Suchet's 1st brush with Poirot isn't Poirot.

He plays Detective Japp in one of the Peter Houstonov films 13 at dinner.

Oh, really?

Which he has stated is the worst performance of his career.

Probably someone else's best performance.

We touched on the resolution, and Brandon, you mentioned it before, you know, the psycho reference, which I couldn't help but thinking when I was watching it again yesterday, but I still think overall, and I think that this is where, apart from other niggling things where it does get let down.

[26:26]

I just think it's a great concept for a story, which is still looking for its resolution.

They just needed to sort of think about it a bit more.

I mean, why is it only every 20 years that David Suchet needs to tempt a bunch of young kids.

That's when the house runs out of... runs out of... young person energy.

Yeah, even so, it's just, I don't know.

It's like, oh, here's this great explanation we've come up with for this and it doesn't sit right with me.

I actually think that scene is actively terrible.

Actively terrible.

Yeah.

Oh, shockingly bad.

And I think I think part of it is just trying to be polite.

No, no.

I think part of the problem is...

I'm not trying I think part of the problem is that it's just massively overwrought.

Like, just, like, we're all looking into each other's eyes and crying and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and I just sort of thought that that was kind of terrible.

It's layering on stakes and emotion, which hasn't really earned.

No.

I also have never a fan.

The twist is dumb.

Who cares?

Well, yeah, yeah.

[27:27]

He's actually here...

So what?

So, yeah.

Oh, great.

Okay.

But also it's that thing of, I'm never a huge fan of when the villain, the monster, whatever it is, suddenly decides that, oh yes, I'm actually evil and this is a bad idea, so I'll just kind of destroy myself right now.

Yeah, so I mean, what the twist enables is the resolution.

So the twist enables the twist air quotes.

Yeah, the twist makes it clear to Eliza that she's in charge, that she doesn't have to go along with what the landlord is doing.

And so she puts a stop to it.

And like that kind of works, I guess.

And the way the twist is revealed is good, you know, Bill goes, actually, that makes no sense.

The version of the story you've come up with, Doctor, is ridiculous.

No one behaves like that.

And then we get the truth and all of that sort of fine, but there's such low stakes to it.

Like, I can see why it's there, but it is sort of dumb.

And I think too, like it's Doctor Who.

[28:28]

And I think Eliza looks amazing.

Like there's live action.

There's some kind of, it's not just live action.

There is some makeup, isn't there?

Yeah, I think I think it's mostly makeup.

And then, um, they, the, I think the big CG component might be the eyes.

Right.

Right.

I mean, I think it looks, it looks great, you know, like her hair looks like wood shavings and stuff like that.

I think it's a great costume, but there is something slightly ridiculous about David Suchet staring into her face when she's covered in rubber and welling up and stuff.

I just couldn't buy it.

It was just a little bit too stupid.

But also, you don't revert. we don't revert to our childhood cells when we're talking to our mothers.

No.

Do you know what I mean?

You're still, he still lived for however many decades he's lived.

Yeah, yeah.

I think I think the idea is that they, he's, and that's the other thing.

Like everyone's parents die.

[29:30]

Do you know what I mean?

Like, it's like, this is a thing that happens to everyone.

And like people don't go on like decades on killing sprees as a result.

It's terrible.

That's the reference. right.

But it's terrible and it's sad and then we get over it and it seems to me that it's sort of young people who haven't experienced any kind of particular loss writing a story like that.

It just seems ridiculous.

Like, look at, yes, you know, and Frankenstein as well.

Do you know what I mean?

Victor Frankenstein creates the monster who is also called Frankenstein.

Don't acne. of the death of his mother.

Do you know what I mean?

I've seen the brain of Morbius.

I know.

So, so, you know, like, it's a thing, but it always just sits really, like, it's, I think it's stupid.

But especially from the time you're talking about because, you know, it's basically what, the 30s?

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, it doesn't happen now as much.

But back then, you know, people would just die.

Like people could be 35 years old and get some kind of illness and die.

[30:34]

Yeah, who had a big family and 2 would have died in childbirth.

Yeah, and I mean, we're probably talking a bit slightly after that, I think, when this is it, but it's more to the point that being a child of that ear and having your mother die when you're still a child is not that unusual.

No, no, no, no.

Like, it happens now.

It's happening.

It does still happen.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But people get over it.

And so I just find it hard to have...

There's a lot of sympathy coming through.

No, no, no, no.

No, but I know what you mean.

No, but I know what you mean.

That's what I'm saying. just a bit unsatisfactory. looking for an explanation as to why this is all happening.

That's right You've got to go in knowing how your story's going to end, and it feels like they created this situation, then try desperately.

And then try to work out.

How are we going to wrap this up?

That's what I was taking vibes off.

It's also the unsatisfactory nature of the landlord's character is I think he's presents as alien, the way that he kind of deals with things as alien, not human.

Or at least possessed by aliens.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, the doctor immediately clocks that he's not from the present, which I thought was pretty good.

And I do, I do love the prime ministers that he mentioned, including Harriet Jones.

[31:38]

Harriet Jones.

But the other thing that really gives me the erits is this thing that everybody has to come back to life.

Yeah.

It just, you know, it had such a great cold open where, you know, a classic kind of opening sequence where the, well, like not quite the opening sequence, but where Parvel is killed, that's vintage Doctor Who.

That's what we're here for.

That's for that 1st scene scene before you cut to the Tartar scene or you cut to the Tartarus materialising where it is.

You know, it's the scream that kind of goes to that.

And I just can't we do it so that, okay, some of them die and then some of them survive.

Absolutely.

You want Harry to come back to life.

That would have been terrible.

No, but everybody else can die.

Well.

No, no, he hasn't died. he should be the one who actually doesn't die in the 1st place.

I think just once they're absorbed, they should just die.

Right.

Like, I think it's a massive cheat.

So we want to have deaths and we want it to be a horror film, but we don't want to actually kill anyone.

What are they frightened of?

Well, I think that Bill becomes a less convincing character if she's so traumatised.

Like if all of her friends die in this flat share, then it's that question that we asked about Sarah.

[32:42]

Why doesn't she just punch the doctor in the face and then leaves him forever?

Yes, but I fundamentally disagree with that.

As you're fond of saying, it's a television show.

Oh, yeah, yeah, it's not actually real.

I think if you're concerned about that aspect of it, then you have they're not all her friends, like she's close to 2 of them, but then the other 3 of them are their friends and she kind of knows them, but, you know, so she doesn't really care as much.

But, you know, obviously in Doctor Who.

Well, less so now, but you know, people die in Doctor Who.

And the companion and the doctor just move on to the next episode where yet more people die.

And then yet more people die in the next episode and it's just something that is part of the show and we shouldn't get hung up about how a real person would actually react.

Yeah, I've seen Tegan in Resurrection of the Daleks.

Well, yeah.

Well, I do think, though, that it's different to turn up in a space based somewhere, like next week, and have people die compared to like Cherie.

And like having Shareen die is great because it gives Pearl a great acting moment.

[33:43]

Like, I think her reaction is really good and her reaction when the doctor comes in and she says what's happened to her and stuff.

I think that's a great performance, but I would have hated those characters to die.

And so I think that there's something misconceived about it.

You need to do something different.

It doesn't work as it stands.

But that's what I'm saying is if you just have, there are 5 of them apart from Bill, you have 3 of them die.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, 2 of them die. one of them comes back to life.

Do you know what I mean?

And the other 2 don't.

It's the fact that they all get eaten and then they all come back.

It's just tiresome.

I think it's that weird hangup that modern Doctor Who has that you can't show violence to children because they might be impacted by it.

They might replicate it.

They don't go out to find some wood lized.

I mean, you can't have Mr. Sin stabbing somebody because that might, you know, that might traumatise people, whereas you can show someone being blown up by a laser.

I think it's you don't want to show, and I don't agree with this.

I think that they didn't want to show Bill's lovely friends being killed and not brought back to life, whereas next week in oxygen, a bunch of people in space and space suits is fine because kids don't relate to that.

[34:48]

I think that's what the thinking is.

I don't agree with it, but I think that's what it is.

That's definitely what it is. and I think that's it's pulling its ridiculous.

Yeah, it's stupid.

I think not traumatising Beale is worth doing.

I think that that's the problem.

I think that there's no way that Bill doesn't leave after that experience if it happens to her friends and that's the problem.

When she goes somewhere else, it's fine.

Even when that little kid gets eaten by tiny last week.

Do you know what I think it would actually really work quite well as is actually a companion introduction story.

Ah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And she's the survivor of the share house.

Either she's the one of the survivors. the Vicky.

Yeah.

Not the parallel I was reaching.

Great, yes.

Sandy the Woodlouse.

So you may be relieved to know that it was originally far worse, and everyone the house had ever consumed was going to come back to life in the early draft.

[35:50]

And then it's like, how is she getting managing from them?

Yeah, exactly.

Anything consumed by Eliza.

Yeah, and yeah, and then the doctor just says, don't worry, everyone, I'll take you home in the TARDIS.

I'd like to dance around on the pavement outside saying everybody...

Well that worked once.

Yes.

I mean, we actually saw Eliza absorb the energy when Shareen gets...

Yes, she gets exhilarated.

Yeah, so we saw that happen.

Yes.

And like we did have that dialogue from the landlord about how powerful was in the walls that he existed in the house.

And so it sort of sells it.

But how does this work?

Parvel, let's just say Parvel.

Parvel is absorbed into the wall and then the wall, the house is what feeds, feeds Liza.

Or is it the fact that the lice then take it from the wall and then like crawl into a mouth.

I mean, I don't know.

I don't know, you're right. doesn't really matter, but it's like, so is it the house that's absorbing people or is it the lice that's eating people and feeding that energy to Eliza?

I know it doesn't really matter, but it's the kind of thing you think of.

[36:52]

If you're thinking of it when you're watching the episode.

They've got a problem.

There is a line, I think, where it said that the house is basically made up of the lice at this point, and of course, yeah, when the house...

Yeah, the wood is the lies.

And then, of course, the house collapses, you know, when the light is destroyed.

How are they destroyed?

I don't.

This is something that material was filmed for, I presume the CG wasn't done for it.

So in the original ending, we cut to a few weeks later and cut back to the house, and it's basically the same shape, but in a better state of repair, and the 6 of them are living there again, and the doctor explains that Eliza and the landlord are now in the walls, but they're at peace because they've accepted their fate.

And Bill's like, yeah, well, Paul dropped his keys down the grate last week, and then they were sitting on the And, you know, all these things keep happening and the doctor's like, if a house can turn against you, it can also look after you.

[38:00]

That's why some places feel comfortable.

Maybe I'm wrong and the Dyads are originally all here from Earth.

And they decided, no, we need to see more about the vault.

So we'll cut that and put in stuff around the vault and just say, it's okay, Bill, you go back to your foster mother who, in a deleted scene, has already...

Yeah, her room before she moves to the gym.

Well, I mean, I think I think we've been saved that kind of happily ever after ending, actually.

Well, I actually do like all 6 of them there going, what the hell are we going to do?

It's just quite fun.

Just going back to that thing that Bill would leave if they all died, and fine, OK, if we're going to live in that universe, that's a thing.

But the universe we are living in, though, now is a very different universe to the one that Sarah Jane was living in because Bill is still living on Earth.

[39:06]

And she just goes on trips with a doctor from time to time because a doctor and Nardo are guarding the vault.

So it's not that classic series thing where they're just going from place to place to place to place.

And then every now and again having tear of the zygons or something.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah.

So it's a bit different.

Yeah, like a so it's sort of like the purple era.

But you well, yes, but I don't get the impression that Joe Grant is living in a shared house somewhere.

No.

She's they're all living on barracks.

Oh do you think?

I think so yes.

He's got a lovely flat.

Yeah, lovely flat Kensington.

Uncle's money.

Let's talk about the final vault scene.

This is not the 1st time this will happen, and Eaters of Lied gets its ending kind of written by Moffat.

This scene's clearly written by Moffat, I think.

And I think the thing that really... almost like the next episode started.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, in the 80s, you know.

I was thinking of the 60s, actually.

Okay, yes.

Yeah, it's like we're being inside something.

What's the end of Aztecs?

[40:07]

So we're on top of something?

Or inside something?

Exactly.

Thank you very question.

It is very cute. and I do think the way that the doctor sells it by telling Missy, it's a story about a house inhabited by wood lice and lots of young people getting.

Yes, yes, that's get eaten.

It's even better.

I think that's actually when you sort of know.

Oh, it's definitely missy.

I think so.

That's right, because the Hoovians show was having their speculation each week about what's in the vault and I think we were going, no, it's just missing.

It's just missing.

It's a pteraleptol.

Yeah, it's funny because I wanted the door to open and there stands a sea double.

I'm blacking like seven.

Exactly.

[41:20]

Well, David, sir, that's all the time we had for this week.

We'll be back next week to help the proletariat seize the means of production in space in oxygen.

In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts, and you can keep up with us on our website, flightthroughentirety.com, where you'll find our social media links, as well as links to all of our other podcasts, including our other Doctor Who podcasts, 500-year diary, and the 2nd grade and bountiful human empire.

Until next time, remember that you can't really process your grief in a healthy way by killing a whole bunch of people.

Thank you very much for listening and good night.

Spoil sport.

Good night.

Yeah, clearly you'd never tried it.

Good night.

Bye-bye.

That was Flight Through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, Peter Griffith, Brendan Jones, and Simon Moore.

Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb.

This episode, Pearl Clutching was recorded on the 25th of August 2024 and released on the 6th of October.

[42:27]

If you've been affected by any of the issues raised in this program, not to worry, it's still October, and there's plenty of time for you to order your mother a great big tub of polyurethane gloss for Christmas.

I wonder whether that's the tag.

What do you think?

Did you already have a tag where we were telling you off?

No, but I think that the missy that like it needs to end with, oh, you know, it's just obviously just missing.

I do like her piano playing.

Yeah, that's awesome too. when she finds out that...

And I really like the fact that Parvel likes classical music.

Yeah.

And the wood lights.

But it has to be, can I say, it has to be someone with an Eastern European name to like classical music.

Otherwise, they'd be... intolerable.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Actually, I have found the music from the teaser and that's going to be our...

[43:30]

It's a real song, I realise.

No, no, no, no.

Oh, you mean with parble?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is a real piece of music.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, the song from the beginning is Little Mix.

It's the people that Bill is embarrassed.

Oh, right, I don't.

I don't know who that is.

I don't either. popping into music.

That makes just a bunch of young people who get killed.

Exactly.

Well, what do you think?

How long have we gone for?

Do you know 51?

I think we've gone for long enough.

Do you remember back in the day, like our episode on 42 is literally 42 minutes and 0 seconds long?

That was deliberate.

Yeah, I know, but it was conceivable that we do a 42 minute episode.

Yes, whereas now then, some might say...

Some might say that 42 was 42 minutes too long.

Yeah, terrible.

Could I just mention something that can go back in the horror discussion?

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

The noise in the walls.

[44:31]

There is one other horror film that may be being somewhat emulated here, but perhaps not consciously or even desirably.

Has anyone ever heard of the film Deathbed, The Bed That Eats?

I confess I have not.

No.

I've stayed in some hotels which...

So it's a 1977 horror film.

And I'll just read you the start of the plot summary from Wikipedia.

In 1897, a demon fell in love with a woman and conjured up a bed onto which on which to make love to her.

The woman died, and in his grief the demon wept tears of blood, which fell on the bed and brought it to life.

When the demon is awake, the bed's evil runs rampant, as it physically eats human beings every 10 years, when the demon sleeps, and it is left dormant until it awakes once more.

Only one man, an artist, was spared, as the bed condemned him to immortality behind a painting, where he must forever witness the bed, taking victims.

[45:34]

And then there's 4 vignettes in the film, which contrived to get various people to fall asleep on this bed, after which they are eaten.

So it doesn't chase you.

Like, it doesn't chase you down the corridor or anything.

No you have to get onto it.

Goodness, I must watch that film, never.

It's, I've seen it. really bad.

You astound me.

Oh, dear.

I think that takes us out to the next...

That's perfect.

All right.

Well, we might wind up.

I'll go for one of my patented quick weed.

I just had a message... saying she's arrived at the station.

Okay, so you go and pick her up.

I'll let you out.

I'll do a wee, we'll do a whole thing, and then we have Cade at the at the thing.

Okay.

All right.

Thank you, Brandon.

I'm going to Bradstock.

Thank you, chat.

Send me the suit.

Send me the audio.

I will.

Okay.

All right.

See you, sweetheart.

Bye.

Bye.