A Fabulous Beard

Hello, dear listeners and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety the only Doctor Who podcast who wouldn't even say no to a salami sandwich. I'm Brendan. I'm Nathan. And I'm Todd. And we are here today to discuss Lewis Mark's final script for the series. We're having a bit of a party despite the fact the world's coming to an end in the Mask of Man Dragger up. Right, Nathan. The randomiser has assigned this story to you, which I'm greatly looking forward to knowing your love for historicals and your love for Lewis Marx. So, I'm sure you really enjoyed this one. Well, you know, ever since I was a child, I actually thought this one was a little bit dull, and I think the main reason is that there isn't really a monster. There's a sort of red sparkler that attacks people, but there's no one in a rubber suit, menacing anyone. There's, you know, a lamentable lack of sontarans and tteraleptils and things. And so when I'd watched it, this time I had kind of hoped that with my sort of newfound maturity and my long experience of watching Doctor Who that I might find a sort of more grown-up, you know, interpretation or a more grown-up kind of assessment of it. And I have to say that while the story has a huge amount going for it, I still think it's pretty tiresome. Oh, no. We don't even have any wine to take a drink with this episode. Well, Todd, I know you're going to be glad to hear this. I don't mind this one too much. I have my problems with it, but on the whole, I quite enjoy it. Oh, I've got my hands and my head like, oh, it's great to be backlisted. I adore this as a child and I just love this. I even love it now. I know there's flaws, but I still love it. So let's talk about why it's good. Do you know what I mean? Because I think that we can spend quite a lot of time on that. It looks spectacular. From the sets to the location work. I love the whole altar temple and the way in which it's all dark and then the Madragara Helix brings it back to life. I mean, do you like that? I think that's terrific. It's so well done. And I think what it is, I think it's black gauze, isn't it? And the paintings are behind the black gauze, so they only appear when they're lit in a certain way. It's so effective. It looks like an incredibly expensive effect, but it's actually been achieved really simply. And as for those locations. You know, where are we? Convention anecdote number 264. We are, of course, in Port Marion, the famous location, or rather the location made famous by Patrick Maguan series, The Prisoner. Now, when I was watching this story with Rod, he is a huge fan of the prisoner, but I didn't mention beforehand where it was, about halfway through episode one, he says, hold on, that's number 2's house. And for that reason, he adored the story. We got to the end of it. He said, I don't know what happened with the plot. I don't care. We're in the village. And they dress the location as well. It isn't just the location. It's some crazy Welsh guy who like built some Renaissance village. Yeah, yeah, you know. Yeah. My favourite use of the location is actually the market street where there's a few chase scenes through that. And I just think that looks so so gorgeous. You know, it reminds me of Disney's Aladdin, which has it seen in the market. It's seen in the marketplace. You know, it looks properly historical. I mean, as a child, when I was watching this, I never realised that they didn't go to Italy or it was some location, like when Sarah's walking through the orchard or when they're getting chased or whatever. didn't realise they'd taped the oranges to the trees. No, I just thought it was a gorgeous location and wherever it was it really was like it was in Renaissance Italy. Yeah, it looks just spectacular. And then, and then we go indoors into the studio. And the sense of like Barry Newbury, and they're fantastically detailed, like there's so much going on in each one of them. And there's some that look like a great big marble hall with pillars and like Hieronymus' studio has all this stuff in it. And they all have these windows and, you know, they don't look massively convincing, but it's really rare to have windows that Sky is visible through in sets in Doctor Who and they look great. And I think that's one of the strengths, is they don't try and do anything outside with that sky. It's just a blue sky and you know you're in a room and I think it's one of the things that I'm picking up more and more through homes of script editor is that a lot of things are based around We've got this set or this room. We don't necessarily need to see outside and we get from one to the other and certainly, you know, having the location work and that in this story, you know, enhances all that. You don't necessarily see outside of Juliana's mansion or whatever it happens to be. It's simple and it's effective. and you're in that moment. And then we got the costumes. A lot of the costumes come from a 1954 film version of Romeo and Juliet, apparently. Oh, right. You know, everyone just looks terrific. Sarah looks spectacular in episode 4 for the mask. Oh, she's gorgeous. And I love her other outfit as well, you know? Yeah, yeah. Liz just looks amazing. It's very 70s, the outfit, isn't it? It's very period, but it works really well in that era too. It's beautiful. You could imagine Margot Led better getting around in that in an episode of The Good Life. I was gonna say you can imagine, you can imagine Felicity Kendall but no, it's really more of a Margot outfit, I think. Yeah, yeah, it's really nice to see Sarah doing sort of something different with the dancing and all that sort of stuff in episode four. It's really nice, you know? And, you know, 0 my god. Despite the fact that she's almost been sacrificed in the story she actually gets to have fun in this one. You know, she gets to wander around the countryside and eat an orange. She gets to go on a dance with a handsome, handsome prince, despite the fact he's probably not that interested in her more on that story later. Getting back to Barry Newbury, though. Of course, we have Barry Newberry's Tartar set. Oh, do you like it? don't like it? Oh, I usually see that face on Nathan. Can I just say, 99% of this set I adore. There's only one thing I don't like about it. That'd not be the door. And that's that's the black. It is the door. The blackness in the middle, in the door. Like I love it in all the other sets where you can open on straight out to things. That, to me, is a little plot device, which is going to come back into play in 2 stories time that's just so convenient, which really gets my goat, but I'm going to leave that until we discuss that particular story. But that's the one thing I don't like. I like the door. Yeah, yeah, especially with the transporter pad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like leaning up to it and everything like that. I just wish there was some sort of... door to that blackness. It's just the one thing. It solves the problem of previous tartar sets where the inner and outer doors are just completely, like there's just no way of reconciling them. And so when when they're on Earth in 1980 in Pyramids of Mars and you're looking in, you can kind of see the exterior of the interior doors and stuff and that's happened before. It didn't quite work and they've solved it in the new series in a wonderful way by having the interior doors be police box doors which I just think is terrific. And that comes from the Cushing movies. yeah. So I think that that solves that problem. But it's a great, you know, all the railings and stuff. It's like a ship and yeah, yeah. And and it's the scanner that we have for the rest of the the classic series, the scanner that survives. Yeah. The one part of the set I don't like is actually the console. Why, because you don't have a time rotor? Well, it's not so much that you don't have the rotor, but it's on casters and quite often when Tom touches it. It moves. It's very obviously a piece of moveable scenery. And, you know, they could have recessed it into the ground and still had it removable. I understand why it's removable. And again, it's not so much the lack of the rotor, but Hinchcliffe and later Graham Williams kind of made the decision that they didn't really like it because it wasn't visually interesting. And I do have to agree with that. And maybe you don't, maybe you don't need the rotor for that, but when you open those panels, you don't just want to see push buttons, you know, you want to see something into it. It needs to be a beset itself is beautiful. It needs to be a bit bigger and a bit more stuff on the actual console. Yeah, yeah, it is rows of coloured button. So I gather that the reason for it, and correct me if I'm wrong gentlemen, is that there was some kind of demarkation issue between, you know, which department exactly was responsible for operating the time rotor. And so they created a console that didn't have the time rotor in order to solve the problem. You know, I think that makes a lot of sense. The thing was plagued with industrial action, as we'll discover, in the next few years, and I, look, I could be completely wrong about that, but that's the fan myth that I sort of knew about. Going back to the look of all of this. I absolutely adore the masks of the brethren. I love the fact that, you've got the leader, you've got the deputy and then you've got the minions. I like that sort of structured things. and the robes. I just you know, they're really creepy. But then at the freaking ball, like the ram's head and that other thing, they just freak me out every time and the way it shot like from that angle and shooting people. Yeah, I mean, when the brethren appear. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just like, you know, all of that, just really... And again, the brethren's masks. And I know I've talked about comedia de latte before, but they're very much sculpted in that style. You know, Barry Newbury has really done his, really done his research. And of course, this was at the time when the BBC Shakespeare was in full swing. This is around the time a few years after this, I think we had John Cleese in Taming of the Shrew. Yeah, yeah. I watched lots of those BBC Shakespeares at school and I think I tried to get hold of some of them sort of myself. And certainly the sets are a bit like that season of Shakespeare. Certainly the windows are heaps like it, and the kind of fag staginess of it. I love Tom's lion mask that he wears. Yes, and then he then he's silly in it, you know, and irritates Sarah. I think there are other good things to say as well. It sort of has a strong, you know, thematic thing and maybe it's a little bit obvious and that's the, you know, superstition versus science and progress. And so you get Hieronymus and Federico to some extent, but basically Hieronymus and the cult of Damnos representing superstition and religion and things. And then you get Giuliano and maybe the doctor representing progress. And the threat that Mandrago poses is that human beings will stop investigating things, they'll stop learning science, you know, and everyone invited to the ball is, you know, there's great thinkers and philosophers. It's not just great noblemen. The waters are muddied a little bit, I think, by the fact that Mandragara is right and Hieronymus is right, you know, and the fact that Mandragara operates on astrological principles, you know it'll become powerful when Mandragara swallows the moon and so on. And so, I guess the idea is that because Mandragara operates on these principles, if it takes over the world, the world will be you know, a place where it's all governed by magic and astrology and things. Yeah, well, the thing is, I'm not sure if it's exactly that. I think it's more. Advanced science being indistinguishable from magic. So the reason that Mandragra becomes more powerful when the Mandragra constellation eats the moon is not because of the astrological significance of that, it's because that is when the energy is aligned and that leads the human perception to being an astrological magical perception. Oh, sure, but I mean, Mandraga is a lie. Do you know what I mean? thematically with the idea of, you know, retarding human progress and with Hieronymus and that kind of thing. And so, is that a problem? No, no, no. I think that's another good thing. There's a strong kind of formatic thing, which I love all that stuff that Auronymous goes... All of his predictions. It's just wonder if I just sit there basking in it, even if, you know, it's it's not accurate or whatever, I just love the dialogue and and... Well, just I have a glow about myself when he starts, you know spurting all that stuff. I just I just sit there smiling. Well, in fact, he's brilliant. Oh, wonderful. That's Norman Jones, who's been in the show twice before. He was cre-song, of course, in Abominable Snowman. and who was wonderful in that. And then he was in the Southern? Yeah, he's a major baker in the Silurians. And again, 2 terrific performances. And he's wonderful here. He's got that rich Welsh voice and a fabulous beard and like a great costume. He's a real highlight, I think. I thought it was just Giuliano, her beard, but moving on. But I really look, I think he's fantastic. But I also love Count Federico. I love it in Doctor Who, when you've got these villains who think they are the be all and end all, but there's actually something worse than them and they don't realise it. yeah And they're going to get their cup, what's the word I'm looking for? Come up, correct. And you know it, but they don't know it. And then it's so satisfying when it actually does happen. You know? Yeah, yeah. Although at the end of part three. The cliphanger for part 3 is Frederico being killed. Yeah. Yeah. And it's always interesting when Doctor Who does a cliffhanger about a villain. So one of the other big examples is the master being threatened by a Zaal in the demons. And I think we do have a thematic resonance here with the demons of this alien entity judging humanity's progress. And one that's associated with magic. And one that's associated with magic. I actually think this is more effective than the Damons in that regard because the Mandragara Helix is such a different life form. And despite the fact, you know, it doesn't have much of a physical presence of itself, I was terrified of it as a child because of that first peasant at kills. And, you know, the flesh is bubbled and burned and turned blue and yeah, that is an image that has burned itself onto my consciousness. And the doctor's reaction, his utter horror and shame at having been the one who's responsible for this. It's very powerful. I agree with you and as a kid, like all of the contusions and that reminded me of when you go out into the forest and you see a tree that's been filled and they've got all moths and all sorts of stuff going on. It just reminded me of that sort of look. And that stuck with me as a kid. They really linger on it in part two. There's like quite a close-up for quite a prolonged time of one of the dead guards. It is, uh, it's uh, the usual sort of Hinchcliffe, slightly too horrible for tea time. But it's no surprise that it's memorable. And I think that cliffhanger of episode 3 that you mentioned is also one of just the most memorable moments, this whole season, and I think we'll come back to it over and over again. This season is like Doctor Who for me. This is this is the bit that I watched over and over again as a kid. It's the season that I remember just maybe the best of all, you know, even more so than maybe 12 or 13. I think this is the this is the season that's etched itself into my memory. And I think from the following season onwards, and I could be wrong about this, I will have to look it up. I was aware that there were these were new seasons sort of coming along and I think season 16 is my 1st real proper memory of that but I had a vague idea of about that with season 15. So season 14 has a huge place in my memory and for that reason I have a real fondness for these stories. Even when they're not that good sometimes. Oh, I'm gonna echo what you're saying, because we have similar age and this season for me is full of so many memorable moments. But after this season, then I think I'm aware that new stuff is coming after this point. Can we talk about some of the characters in this other characters in this story? think so. And one of the things that always struck me as a kid. Giuliano, who, who I really adored as a character. He's got the worst wig though, doesn't he? Yeah, that might be true. But, you know, well, you could swish it around, you know, I thought that's kind of cool. I think it's just the fringe really. It's the fringe. The fringe introduces Marco is his companion. Is his companion? Yes, yes, yes. My loyal companion, Marco. When he did that as a charter, I was, I just like thinking, that's a strange thing to say. Discuss. What is there to say? Well, yeah, I, the whole Giuliano Marco thing is, no matter what's going on, it's quite wonderful. whether they're just friends or whether there is something more there. And despite the conservative nature of television in the 1970s, you know, I think we're still Mr. Humphreys is only just a new thing on TV at this point. Quentin Crisp is, of course, still making waves. But, um, I think regardless of their, of their actual relationship in the script, I think there is a conscious effort to imply there is something else going on. But even if There isn't. At the very least, there is an incredibly loyal friendship between them and camaraderie, because there's the bit where they're both being tortured and they both refuse to give up or recant the other which, you know, is either a heartwarming friendship or heartbreakingly romantic. There's a bromance going on. In fact, there's so many romances in this. You've got Count Federico and Rossini. You've got Heronymus and the priest. Shipping them. There's these duos all the way through. Yeah, there's, there's your 3 pairings. Of course, well done production team. We've got no other women besides Sarah Jane and a few nondescript people at the ball, which is very strange. you know, They could have worked in. And, you know, being this period in history. They didn't have women in this period of history. Well, that's why Giuliano and Marco have to be. So, like the Time Warrior. They could have worked in a character like Meg, because Meg, in the time war, it was fantastic, the head of the kitchen. Give someone a sister, for God's sake. It's not that hard. one of the brethren, mean woman? don't know They would have been sister on them. What do you think of the hairdo of the... The deputy leader of the brethren. He's the guy from that 1st episode of Blake 7. Robert James, yeah. He's less Van Glynde. Yeah, he's Leicesterson. Oh, is he? Lesterson, listen. Lester listened. Wow. What do you think of the moustache swirling of the executioner? That's Jerry Walsh. Really? Yep. Terry Walsh watch. That's Terry. And then he got changed into Tom's costume to jump off the gala. Can I just say that is one of the ropey elements in this story when Terry plays Tom, whether it be off the horse or doing sword fighting? so obvious. really obvious. I think, I mean, we've got an eagle eye for Terry after all this time, but the whole body language is just wrong. Yeah, yeah. You know, I think I think possibly Terry spent so long getting trying to get John Pertley's body language down. And he had it pretty well by the end. You know, he would stand like John Pertwee in the fight scenes that maybe it's not happening. So we're here, plus Tom's physicality is so unique. You know, even John Colshaw, who does the amazing impersonation of Tom. He doesn't try to stand like Tom Baker because no one can. The executioner, like the actual going to chop the doctor's head off. Have we seen that before in Doctor Who? Yeah, wasn't it going to happen in the time warrior? Is that the only other time? And then it happens later in the visitation. Oh, well, that's spoilers, people, we don't know what to know. That is the worst. Like, I actually think the doctor's about to be executed. Cliffhanger is really terrible because you know he's not going to be. It's the most boring possible way of putting him in peril. And in the visitation, of course, someone comes in and says, no wait. And that puts a stop. Here at least, you know, he leaps onto a horse and does some fabulous staring too and stuff. But I think we're getting close to the objections that I have to this story. Overwhelmingly, it is that the action is a bit trite. And so Sarah is being sacrificed by a bunch of cultists, the doctors going to be executed by Federico. There's a lot of standing. Moffin has that line about classic Doctor Who being a lot of people standing urgently in corridors, talking urgently in corridors, sort of thing. There's a lot of just laboriously explaining what's going on to each other, and a lot of scenes that don't really contribute to the plot very much. And the whole thing just goes to hell, I think, in episode 4 where there's a giant attack on the palace by the brethren, which is entirely narrated by Marco, that we see absolutely nothing of. We don't see them going through the streets. We don't see them hounding out the villages. There's this big giant climactic attack, you know, this whole mask is being besieged, and we don't get a single shot of the breath run until they get into the room. Okay, but I mean, that's true enough, but I kind of see it as what Bob Holmes is trying to do is to bring things back into just rooms and the characters that you know. And so for me, it's like, yes, this is happening outside, but we care about Sarah, we care about what's happening in the palace. So I actually go with that and I actually see it as not a limitation of the story. I actually see it as being, well, you know, if we had to go and film that and do that, it could really crap. So let's not even go there. Let's just keep it back. And for me, so I don't have a problem with that. I can see I take your point of view, but I don't have a problem with it. And also, it's the Shakespearean tradition. Because if you look at Macbeth, the 1st scene of Macbeth is a soldier telling King Duncan how wonderful Macbeth was in battle and how he sliced up 200 of the enemy soldiers all by himself, you never see it. And then the next scene after that is the witches discussing the battle and, you know, it's all these people talking about battles. So, yeah, I mean, I'd never had a problem with that again, because as Todd says, it's the intimacy of these of these characters, not just the doctor and Sarah, but we've come to quite know Giuliano and Marco by this point as well. And the scene, I think, really helps with that very early on, is that scene where Giuliano is talking with Sarah about how he believes there are other worlds around the lights in the sky. And last season, we were talking about how Sarah loses a bit of her humanity as she sort of becomes a bit aloof and a bit above things. This is a scene where Sarah regains a lot of that humanity because of course, she doesn't want to say to Marco, oh, yes, you're absolutely right, and I'm from the stars, because that's my, you know, that might be a bit overwhelming, but she just listens and says, oh, go on. Wow, you know, I think you might be right. I think, you know, from, it could be performed as patronising, but I don't think that Liz Slaton performs it as patronising. She performs it as, I know you're absolutely right. But this is about your idea. This isn't about me validating you. You know, she, she, she's letting him take the stage in this conversation despite the fact she knows better. I know I haven't been around for the last discussions that you've had in the last few episodes. But for me, even when I watched this as a kid, in terms of Elizabeth Stone's performance, I always had this feeling that there was a difference in her performance, like there was just a feeling, I just, there's something different here. And I think maybe because she knows that she's leaving and I think when you leave a job, you do change, like you do in the months leading up to it if you've got a deadline. And it's still a great performance. Don't get me wrong, but there's just this feeling that there's a difference in Sarah and I can't really quite put my finger on it. I guess the 1st scene where she's walking in the corridor with the doctor in the TARDIS and they have the discussion about being from earth or human or whatever it is. And it's struck me that in the new series, Jackie has this conversation with Rhodes about the fact that over time you'll lose yourself and not, you'll just be this nondescript woman in the crowd. You haven't heard our episode Planet of Evil podcast episode yet. Because I bring exactly that up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I kind of feel that now having watched this through and having you know, I had no connection with the brand of movies because I never saw it as a kid. But I now look back and I see that they keep bringing Sarah back to Earth and she's a journalist and, you know, that still happens in Zygons and Kermins and Mars and Android Invasion. But after that time, it just goes away. And it becomes Sarah Jane Smith, Wonder Woman, where she's put through all these trials of things and survives, you know, falling downstairs, blindness, mincing machines. She's going to survive a frigging cliff explosion. like, you know like she is Wonder Woman, but she's suddenly not, she's not the journalist anymore. She could be anywhere. And there is this difference that I am now perceiving, you know through these last few episodes and here as well. I think it is a function of the problem that the production team has with women, honestly, where Sarah gets turned from a person into a plot device. And so she gets into peril and she survives it. Here, there's that, you know, she gets hypnotised and it's, she does 2 stories this season, in each of them, she gets hypnotised. So she's hypnotised to kill the doctor here. I just think that's really not very interesting. And again, cliched and try it, you know, sacrificed the virgin sacrifice, the being hypnotised, all of these things that happened to her. And just a lot of the action is really not very novel or interesting. And Sarah really suffers from it because by now she isn't any recognisable human being. You know, she goes through all these things with no ill effects. You know, she might bitch about them a little bit afterwards, but really, she's stopped being anyone that you can really properly recognise as a person. I guess one thing I like about hypnotism is the fact that, yeah she actually asked the question that's never been asked. Why can she understand other languages? And I like the fact that Robert Holmes will actually address this and the TARDIS inside, the bigger on inside out with an explanation. this season. So I actually like the purpose of the hypnotism here to actually put that question for this. Oh, I agree. Because I think it's like an elephant in the room that's never asked. Now, he gives you answers that are really answers that are very vague and no answers, but I kind of like that in my Doctor Who because I like it being left open rather than this is the definitive fact and we're like Star Trek and this is the way it is and it's just, you know, scientific gobbledy-gook. I like the fact that it's vague enough that you can make it whatever you want it to and accept it and move on. It leads to that the fabulous fit in fires, Pompeii, where Donna has such fun speaking Latin. Rod and I are currently watching series 4 of Doctor Who. And it's interesting what Stephen Moffat says about classic Doctor Who being people standing around talking in corridors because what is silence in the library, but people standing around and talking in corridors. There's loads of it. and it's done really well. But we've also watched Pfizer Pompeii. Something I didn't pick up on the 1st time was whenever the doctor or Donna accidentally used some Latin in Peter Capaldi's presence. He replies with Welshisms. Hey, there's lovely. He says at one point. You know, it's it's really good. That's just another example of how great Capaldi is. Look, I take your point, Nathan, about the cliches in this, but much like Almost every story last season, Hinchcliffe and Holmes are borrowing from other stories. So the cliches here are stuff they've nicked from Hammer horror films with the Virgin Sacrifice and the hypnotism and what have you. I think what does make the story so special and... I was about to say it's Lewis Mark's best script for the series but Day of the Daleks is pretty bloody good. Perhaps it's his best original script then. Because I do think his characterisation is wonderful. I think even though we've got cliched plot events, they're presented with really great style and panache. Cliche pot event. Let's leave the Tartar store open. So space alien energy thing can come to worth. Like, that's my pet hate in the series, but the doors are left open. It's like, ah. Didn't you? I mean, didn't you think it seemed weirdly old-fashioned, though just the way the way it was plotted? Yeah, but I liked that. It felt like a Hartnell story. And it felt like a good Hartnell historical. You know, you, I could imagine... They didn't go to the pub or prison. Oh, they did go to prison. But no, I could easily imagine. I could easily imagine Billy and Barbara in this. That would have fixed it for me, actually. Look, I just adore this and it's one of my favourite stories of all time. Well, dear listener, that is all the time we have for the Mask of Man Dragra, and as everyone knows, after a big party, it's time for a bit of a come down. So next week. Sorry, I'm just laughing, 'cause I'll know what's next win. Yeah. The hand of fear. Nathan, the randomiser, put you in charge of that again. Until then, please check us out online, dear listeners, at flightthroughentirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter. And don't forget to check out bondfinger at bondfinger.com. We currently have 2 commentaries available, one for Dr. No, and 14 from Russia with love. Thank you very much for listening and good night. Good night. See you soon. That was Flake Your Entirety with Todd Beelby, Nathan Botany and Brendan Jones. This episode, a fabulous beard was reported on the 2nd of August. The next episode within released on September 20th. We ain't going in there either, Giovanni. There's nothing but a growling beach ball at the end of that tunnel. I don't know what happened in the plot. I don't care, we're in the village. Sorry. That was me trying to turn airplane mode off.