Remember Who We Were

Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety the only Doctor Who podcast that can carry off a decorative vegetable. Well, maybe not the only one. I'm Nathan. I'm James. I'm Stephen. I'm Dan. Well, we've just said goodbye to Martha, and we're still a couple of days away from Kylie. So we've decided to stand around in the console room for a few minutes and remind ourselves how much we all love Peter Davidson. Keep your hats on, please. It's time crash. We've never actually really done one of these before. There has been one earlier children in need special, obviously just between the end of Series 1 and the Christmas invasion. Only one children in need special. Oh, really? Were there other ones? The 5 doctors. Oh, no. That was a really long, really special. That doesn't count. And so this aired on the sort of 17th of November, 2007. No, the 16th of November 2007. Oh, you know, I don't believe in time zones. And so last of the time lords was sort of end of June. that right? Or was it end of July, James? Okay. So, um, Great start. So what did you guys think of this? I had no idea it was coming for one thing, and I don't even know how I found out about it, and I don't know that I watched it on TV. I must have watched it on the internet. I've never been able to find a good way to watch it, but it just yeah, I was so surprised and so pleased. And as it goes through, it's just, I think it's just really fun. I really enjoyed it. And then they didn't even need that really lovely tear jerk a bit at the end where he tells him he's his doctor and I just loved it. It makes me moisten up every time. What about you, Stephen? So, as you can imagine, I keep saying on you to who, that Davison was my doctor, out of choice as an adolescent. And like Dan, I didn't know this was coming. I didn't even know that Davis was in it. This is obviously in the day before Twitter and definitely in the days before, you know, I dipped into fandom in any real way. So when things like this dropped, including, for instance, the Eccleston regeneration, I had no idea, I was totally unspoiled. So, to see, to see this and to see my favourite doctor, again, I couldn't tell you how much my Fannish heart squealed. It was just wonderful moment in time. It is super exciting. You know, Dan, you can actually watch it. When I was looking at the DVD, the series 4 DVD. DVD and the Blu-ray. Yeah, has time crush on it. It is preserved and our listeners can watch it themselves if they didn't catch it the 1st time. It is very much a sort of children in need special, isn't it? I mean, you know, it's it's 2 actors in the standing set with sort of very minimal kind of special effects or anything. James looks like you're bitching to say something. I was going to do some of your shtick. Um, so, I was reading um, Titus Ruditorum. And I thought El Santa for made a really good point, which was that it's like this story is an exquisitely crafted 8 minute sketch that works well both for people who remember the Davidson era. And for people who don't give a crap about Doctor Who. what actual women need. Yeah. Well, it's Moffat, isn't it? Like, I always sort of think that Russell's better at TV than Moffat in many ways in the sense that he's better at kind of creating something with mass audience appeal. But he does a very, very good job. I think of pitching it both for us and for the not where. Yeah, I think, I think the sort of the time travel, like, it's, I think it's, they make it pretty clear what's going on pretty quickly. Like, uh, you know, um, Tennant knows what's going on and Davison seems like blissfully ignorant for a few minutes. And then they sort of, uh, they they solve the crisis with a little bit of like time travel cleverness. Nothing like super heavy, but like a nice, simple RTD, like neat and tidy, understandable little time travel timey-wamey. And I just think it's so clever and so neat and it all gets tied up in a little bow. I think it's and it's, yeah, it's really cute. I had to sort of reread a transcript of it to actually work out like even though I've seen it a bunch of times, to actually work out what the threat is. You know what I mean? It's 2 tartises, right? It's just they've just bumped into each other or something. Yeah. It's a whole the size of Belgium. Yes, no, I knew it was going to blow a hole in the universe size of Belgium. I just didn't quite know why. I do love Hitchhiker's Guide reference. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're poorly engineered, though, these TARDIS, aren't they? Imagine if you blew a hole in the universe the size of Belgium every time you rear-ended someone, you know. And the way it's solved is something that Moffatt will, as is won't, use, again, isn't it the way that the day of the doctor is solved? Yeah, I was thinking this. I was actually listening to the red novelisation by Nick Briggs at that just the other week and it's exactly the same trick, right? So how do we know, or how does the doctor know that, you know, he has to press this boothbos Libra or whatever the case is, he really makes it? It's, uh, it's a massive cheat, but it gets away with it, even from like my nerdish fan sort of perspective because it makes sense in many ways. Like, if the tenant doctor doesn't remember until the Davidson doctor shows up, right? So it's not like he's in my head anyway, like walked around with this knowledge for, you know, 5 regenerations or whatever it is. It's not until he appears. And the Davidson doctor doesn't remember because at the moment he disappears, it sort of murders into the 10th doctor's timeline. So there's that sort of crap science around, you know, paradoxes and whatever else that I think the general audience can handle. But in the same way that he pulls the trick off in day at the doctor, he does the same thing here. And it also satisfies, you know, the hardcore nerds and their obsession with continuity. amazingly clever. Yeah. I also like the way he deploys that in order to explain why Davison sort of fatter and balder than... And Wayne Colin Baker's costume. Is he really? From the regeneration, yeah. The extra material in the back. In my head, they just don't remember because they've got there's so much stuff happens in their life and they've got so many things to remember. And neither of them knows when it's going to happen. So he's just like, eh, that'll come around. Oh, remember at the time. Yeah, yeah, Davison appearing sort of jogs his memory and stuff. Yeah. And then, uh, whether or not the science of it works, it just feels like a really nice Russell kind of, uh, just, just, just just enjoy it. Don't worry about it. It's really, it's great. Just going to wave my hands over here a bit. Where do we think this takes place for the 5th doctor then? Oh, no, he says he's travelling with this or in Tegan. Does he? He asks whether he's at. Like, there's 10 stop to ask. Tenant asks him. He doesn't answer. Then they go straight. They go straight to the master beard joke, which I think is possibly my favourite thing about the entire Doctor Whoever. And, you know, from a straight man that I appreciate that from Moffat. pretty good. I remember what the 1st time I saw it, I laughed so hard when he said, has he still got that rubbish beard? And I just thought that was so funny alone. And then when Tenant says, no, no, no. And I was like, that's the end. He's like, well, a wife, I just lost my wife. It's so good And it moves on so quickly, like it's just a little dig. I love it. What do we think about the music? There's that little Davis era stab when he's when he's figuring out what's going on. I didn't even know, I've seen it so many times, and I don't think I even noticed it until the last time, there's just like a little bit of Eddie Sinth when he's figuring out what's happening and it's lovely. Oh, yes, they're... I think it's a direct quote from something. Like, I don't think they're doing it. I think it is a direct quote from a... No, no, it's a Davison episode. Yeah, they've picked up the incidental music, done some filtering on it and sort of plonked in there. Yeah, I should be able to recognise it. And then it goes back to Murray at the end. Obviously, they give Murray the sort of big emotional thing. But I think that may even be using music cues from series 3. Like, I don't think they're going to hurry into, you know, bring the BBC orchestra in to do it. Yeah, do some music from probably, I think last of the time locks. Yeah, yeah. think so. Do you guys think it's just like 20 people in a room on a Sunday? making it? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think so. But you know, they do give it more love than it needed to have. I mean, if you look at this year's children in need, which I just thought was beautiful where did you guys see it? Yeah. So this is where Jody and who else is it? So it's Mandeep and Tosin and Jody. And they've got a little girl on stage who's who's sort of talking to them on like they're huge on this big screen. America, yeah. Yeah, yeah. in America shooting and then the sort of screen opens and then they come out and the little girl goes crazy and stuff and it's all like and they only needed to do that. And there's a Matt Smith one, isn't there, where he's sort of changing clothes and you see how hairy his back is, which is sort of surprising and a bit. I'm searching in what way? I don't know. In my pants. But, you know, that's all you'd need to do. And so the idea that they give it, you know, like a title and opening credits and they put Peter Davison in the opening credits and they make it like they sell it as a proper episode, I think. And I think that's lovely. Yeah. I had no idea that the little girl thing was a children in need. That made me like, I lost it when I watched that. It was just so adorable. You could tell how much Jody loved it, how much she enjoyed it. It made you moisten up. Oh, big time. Oh, it's just like, there was a puddle. Huge puddle. So Graham Harper's directing? Yeah, yeah, this is Graham Harper. Oh, okay, all right. So that's, again, you know, they're giving it more love than it really needs to have or really, you know, absolutely need it. It's much better than it ought to be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They can get away with something a lot less elaborate and a lot less kind of pseudo-canonical. I also like too, that they do try and make it a proper episode. Like it ends with the, you know, the end of Last of the Time Lords. Or, you know, it clearly takes place in between sort of heartbeats. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something weird happens with it. Such a beautiful little cheat, isn't it? So like go from the end to the last of the time lords where you see the Titanic crashing through and you're expecting, obviously you know, to go into for each of the time, but obviously this is sort of like a sneak little cutaway, but it also hearkens back to the beginning of series 3, doesn't it, with the runaway bride? And it's just like a lovely, uh, yeah, just, you know, Moffatt obviously, sort of playing with the, the narrative sort of structures of Doctor Who, when hearkening back to, um, to, you know, previously in, in series 3, just on, um, use of the director. It's really lovely to have, you know, maybe maybe the most famous director from Davidson's maybe his best story back as well. I think that's a nice little nod back to 1983. Yeah, isn't it? I hadn't really thought of that, but of course, Graham Harper had directed stories for both of them. How do we think Pete comes across? He does 2 things, which I really, which I really love, and I endear him to me massively in this story. At 1st he reacts to David Tennant, like kind of like I do and like that we all do. Is there something wrong with you? the way he tells me now that he's his father-in-law as well. Yeah exactly. Let's try not to think too much about that. And he sort of chastises him for just babbling on about everything that's happens to be in front of him. And he gets so, he's almost like a grumpy dad. Like, I remember when my dad got really mad when I changed anything about our computer, like the desktop or whatever, and he gets mad at, he gets mad at tenant for changing the desktop thing saying you fiddled with the things. You've changed it. I don't understand it anymore. Do you know what I think is really lovely is that we always remember Jameson as the kind doctor, but I think Nathan, you said this many times in the past as well. He's actually not. And when he's compared against Tennant, who's, you know, perhaps you know, pub, you know, to the public at least, the most loveable loveable doctor, I think he's closer to Hartnall than he is to Tennant, and there's that, um, you know, almost like, oh, actually yeah, that's right. Peter Davidson's doctor was, you know, sometimes a stringent and acerbic and bit of a smart Alec, and it's, it sort of reminded me of, of something that maybe isn't so pronounced or well remembered about the 5th doctrine. It's so that he's impatient, I think. Exasperating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love it. It's my favourite thing about him. he's playing it on a different level here. You know, he's playing it as a sketch. He has to play the guy who doesn't know what's going on, which is a sort of very different kind of role from what he had as a doctor. He's not quite like the way he played it originally. But I just think, you know, he's so spectacular and we were so lucky to have him as the doctor for those few years. I just love that he, the tenant starts immediately doing his tenet thing and sort of babbling and going really fast and being quite funny and charismatic. And Davison just finds it super annoying about as annoying as I do sometimes. I just love that he reacts that way. Again, it's what the war doctor does. Like Moffatt will use this again. And it's the war doctor who is clearly standing in for the posh classic series doctors going, you know, who are you babbling children waving your enormous sonic screwdrivers around? and say timey, whimey, you know. And so, um, here I was actually on rewatch, just a little bit surprised to see Peter Davis and agree to join in with the timey whimey, but, you know, nevertheless. And then there's how it ends. And I'm going to quote El Sandra for now, James. Take a drink, Dylan. There's no way that that speech makes any sense within the sort of narrative or within the way that living as the doctor would work. You know what I mean? Like, there's a little bit I loved being you or whatever. I got these things off you. But that kind of doesn't really make any sense. And the only way it really does make sense is as David Tennant and Stephen Moffatt, saying to Peter Davison how much they loved him as the doctor and how much sort of future, sort of versions of the doctor, you know, depend on it. You know, we always say Troughton is the doctor who created the role, but the 1st word the doctor says in the new series is run and the only doctor who's really ever run has been Peter Davidson. You know, he runs, he has the sneakers. You know, that that idea that he's a youngish hero, very, very bright, but still really young and lively. That's that's Davison. Even to the point where they, where they like straight up just point out the influences. There's like the squeaky voice, the uh, the trainers and the being young and the, um, the, uh, which is just so, so sweet, the way they, the way they, he says those lines is just beautifully directed and perfectly timed and it's just really lovely. I love the Brainy Specks line because it's, it just reminds me of how much Janet Fielding used to mock Peter Davison for wearing them. I think I read somewhere, possibly... El Sandoval. Peter Davidson is the 1st modern doctor, really. He's the 1st doctor as young man. He really is the template for most of the new series. Yeah. In, in, in, the doctor is sort of action hero running around hectically trying to save the world. He's much more in the mould of David Tennant and Matt Smith than any other doctor is. If you think about Lazarus experiment this year. And you've got, you know, the doctor leaping over consoles and all of that kind of thing. Like there's not a single other doctor that you can imagine doing anything like that in the classic series apart from Pete. No, absolutely not. And to the point where I sometimes think, do we have tenant in the tuxedo and, you know, subsequent doctors in the tuxedo, because there's that promo shot of Peter Davison addressed as Bond, for the, on the, uh, shoots. Like he casts quite a long shadow into knew who, I think, Davidson and I think it's right that, you know, he's celebrated and remembered in that way. I think another thing that's like really touching around this, and this is, uh, never could never have been intended at the time, but it's like what, um, I guess the tenant um, legacy is as well. Like, obviously, it's, what, 10 years or so since, um, since, um you know, left the role. But it's almost as though, you know, people will be looking back on the tenant era in the same way that, you know, when we were in the midst of the tending era, we looked back at the Davison era through this and there's something quite lovely about that. The passing of time is, uh, is sort of captured in that moment, but also, yeah, it's also something that, you know, continues and is still relevant. I still, I still look at that and I, you know, also watched it the other day and the most heartbreaking thing was the realisation that, 0 my god, this is 12 years ago. My life has changed irrevocably. And the young, the, you know, the, the old doctor and the young doctor, it's almost as though like, you know, I'm looking back to when I was, you know, 20 something and a skinny young idiot and you know, there's something really touching about that portrayal between the tools and, you know, it is definitely, you know, as we say, Moffat and and tenet talking to Davidson as their favourite doctor, but I think it does also speak to the way that we all change. And what's that line from, you know, the last episode um, of Matt Smith? where all different people in the end. It just as long as we remember who we were. That sort of came to mind when I was watching this again. Steve, even 12 years later, Steve, you're still more beautiful than David Tennant. Better you've still got better hair. At least some of us do. I was going to say, in fact that it's really Moffat's 1st go at characterising the different regenerations of the doctor as different stages of development and where he does that thing about how you try and be all old and important, which is what you do when you're young. You know, the reason that Arnold is sort of crotchety and sort of pompous and stuff, which, of course, he isn't, is because he's young, you know, and he's trying to see him grown up. And I think that's gorgeous. I think that's absolutely superb. That's also that strange, like, reflective thing where he talks about being young and getting old when, in fact, almost, you know in my mind, doctors kind of get progressively younger. I know it's not like exact, but they just seem to get progressively younger up until tenant. Yeah, yeah. You know, for a very brief moment, this story was the highest rated episode of the new series. Oh really? Yeah, so at our, because people are tuning into too many need anyway. Children need only average 9.60000 viewers. This gained another 1000000.5 viewers. And then it'll be knocked off by Kylie and... Of course. Yeah. So for again, 29 days or something, it was the highest rated documentary story of the 21st century. I just think it's like a really fun little adventure. A nice little nod to Davison. And it would have all been fine without, even without that bit at the end where you get, they get all lovey-dovey about you and my doctor and snap and all that. It would have been great without it, but when they put it in, it just like, it just elevates the thing and makes it, makes it wonderful to me. Weldy listener, it looks like we've got a fairly extensive cleanup job ahead of us, so we'll be off, and we'll see you again at Christmas for Voyage of the Damned. In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook at FTE podcast on Twitter, and on our website FlightthroughEntirety.com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger and Jody Interterterra. And Stephen and Dan, where can people find you? Well, you can find us at Twitter at New to Who podcast. Yeah, you can find pretty much all of our podcast episodes at noodoohoo.com or like whatever podcast app you use. Until next time, may you keep zooming around space and time, saving planets, fighting monsters, and being, well, let's be honest pretty sort of marvellous. Thank you very much for listening and good night. Good night. Good seeing you. What? That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Bottomley, James Selwood, and Stephen and Dan from New to Who. Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings performance by Jane Orberg. This episode, remember who we were, was recorded on the 10th of December 2019, and released on the 22nd of December. This episode is 3 times as long as the story it describes, which makes me think that we've undersold some important stories in the past. So look forward in the new year to a rerelease of our Daleks Masterplan episode, which will clock in at 5 hours. And sometimes there are bits where we're talking about the episode but we're kind of flagging a bit or whatever, and I just sort of think, okay, the energy's not right for the main show. I'm going put it at the end. Much like most of the things. James says on this podcast. Please, please feel free to take out my wank about the Baker Davis and ratings. I always get that wrong. Oh, no, no. just sort of cut it so that we all look as smart as possible. Yes, that's what... But no one quite as smart as Nathan. Well, no. I'll come back in and record. Re-record my bit, so that's something smarter. James didn't know I did that. I did. Oh, okay. You just told me. Insert some witty jokes and like, yeah, yeah. Cut in laughter from somewhere else. Ouch, James, yeah. All right, here goes. Well, dear listener, it looks like we've got a fairly extensive.