A Brilliant Whole

Hello, Day Lister, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast that's just found out that for the last 7 years, we've been using the same jokebook as Rory's Best Man. And we're doing it now. I'm Nathan. I'm James. I'm Todd. I'm Peter. Well, for the last 13 weeks. We've seen what happens when you give creative control of the biggest thing on TV to the person who brought us Joking Apart series 2. So this week we're going to take one more look at how all that turned out by travelling backwards in our own timeline through those 13 weeks, creating the odd continuity era along the way in our series 5 retrospective. We always start with the hard hitting questions here in our retrospective. So, Peter, Snog marry avoid. Dorian, Churchill, or Cully? Cully from the 11th hour. Yes. Oh, it would have to be Cully from the 11th hour for all 3 because I mean, I'm a secret dominators fan. Nobody knows this, but I think the dominant is actually pretty good. And so any chance, you know, Cully's in a dress there. I could take him straight up the aisle. It would be brilliant. Hang on, that was really rude. I made it. That staying in. No, that's not staying here. Yes, you could cheerfully marry Cully from the 11th hour. As for the other two, who were they? Dorian or Churchill? Dorian, you'd, well, no, I'd avoid Dorian, actually. And Churchill, well, you'd have to give Churchless Nog because he basically saved civilisation from fascism. So there we go. Right. Thank you very much for that. We'll now move on to my next question, which is one of our listener questions that I get from our tweets, and this is part of the Pandora Opens box. Luke Hobbs Arsis. This series just turned 10 years old, and we've had a lot of Doctor Who in the time since. Does series 5 still feel fresh, does it feel outdated? And is this a false choice that can only be resolved by an alchemic marriage of opposites? I think it's truly fresh. I think it's amazing. And maybe it's because we're coming at it after doing the RTD era so it's a little bit like it is in context, but it's an exciting new take on Doctor Who, I think. And, you know, some of us are sort of coming off the Moffatt era where perhaps it does get a bit tired by the end, but this new thing that he's doing is so great in context, I think. And I think I was very familiar with series one through four, the Russell T. Davies era. And so I kind of knew what that felt like. And series 4 is very good. Then to get into the specials, which perhaps outstayed their welcome just a little bit. But then he hit series 5 and it does feel so fresh and new and revisiting now, I was surprised by how Moffatt was able to step in and make a series that felt so much the same and so much different. Oh look, I totally agree. Coming back to it. Like early Moffat, Doctor Who was never something I was a huge fan of just because I loved Russell so much. I kind of took against it. I still enjoyed watching, but I was like, oh, it's not as good as it used to be. What I made was a kid. But coming back to watch it for FTE. Wow. It's phenomenal. It's so, there's so much energy. There's so many ideas fizzing around like in this concoction. It's just, it really holds out well. I think it seems as fresh now as it did the day it was broadcast. And hasn't conspicuously dated, has it? You watch an episode from this series. It doesn't feel like it's back in time. Yeah, I agree. I do think it is as fresh as it was. And I also think that as similar as it is in terms of structure and of course, the last time that we have the episodic structure in knew who. Like this is it after this, it's all different. We don't have necessarily an early two-parter, late two-parter, and two-part finale ever again, like in a series. I think it's absolutely amazing that you've got that, but Stephen just makes it seem different and it's such a success with it, I think. I've really enjoyed the whole run. You know, I'm very close to saying that series 5 is my favourite series of new who. I think RTD is still my favourite era. And series 5 has to vie with that incredible run of sort of 7 or 8 episodes at the end of series 4, which is perhaps the best run that the show has ever done. And, uh, you know, the corresponding bit of series 5 has that dreadful gibnal 2 part of SmackBang in the middle of it. But despite that, there's something so interesting about what it's doing. And over the last few weeks, Todd, you've talked about this as being like a novel, you know, it has a coherence. It tells a single story in a way that the show has never done before while not sacrificing the individual episodes. I think it's amazing. Yeah, I like what you're saying there, Nathan. Like in series four, you do have that incredible run. You have all those highs and you really are swept away with it all but with all the continuity. Here, it is like a novel that unfolds chapter by chapter. And so if one chapter is a little bit disappointing. You're still wanting to go forward. And I necessarily don't think that the highs in this season are as dramatically high as maybe season four, but there's a consistency and there's a through line and there's just something that I really am intrigued by every single time I watch it. and it brings something new every time I watch it. It's one of those rare seasons, I think, that is greater than the sum of its parts. Exactly. And so even though there are a couple of disappointing episodes in there, what the season's aiming for and what you come away from it with is really pretty good. Another Pandora opens question. Bob Gilby says, this is the series that made Doctor Who big again in the USA. What do you think is the reason for that? I take issue with the word again. I think it's that intro, you know, that Amy does the voiceover of my imaginary friend. That's what made it US because it needs to be explained every week to the casual viewer, so they keep on coming back going, oh, I haven't seen this before. I think it was just a good sort of jumping on point. You know, Moffatt does refer to things that have happened before but not a lot. And certainly the 1st episode has a completely new cast. And so it is an excellent jumping on point. And I think I've recommended that people start with the 11th hour if they want to watch New Who. You know, however much I love the RTD era, it is sort of a good reasonably modern starting point. It works well. So I think it was that. And there was just a lot of publicity and stuff, wasn't there? I think so. I also think that you've said a number of times this series about 3 young likeable leads. Yeah, yeah. for the 1st time since maybe the savages. Toto? Hartnell? And what else? That other one. And by the way, Todd, your fetching jumper puts me in mind of Stephen in the celestial toy maker. Yeah, yeah. Thank you for that You always won't get to see my fetching jumper. I'll just take a picture. Can we have some love for the 11th hour? Because, I mean, as an opener to a season, it's spectacular and it ticks every box, but the feat that that episode achieved by basically revamping the entire series and kicking off with nothing left from behind it. It's a more audacious feet than Rose, I think, in that respect. The only thing that's really left is Ed Thomas, behind the scenes. That's right, and he's gone by the end of the season. I mean, the other thing too, that it does, which hasn't been attempted before in the new series, is it doesn't hold off introducing the doctor. So we have to wait to meet the doctor in both rows and the Christmas invasion, particularly in the Christmas invasion. Deep breath as well. Yeah, yeah, but every scene has Matt in it just about. It's actually quite a shock when we cut to the hospital for that scene with Rory and Dr. Ramsden because it's the 1st time that Matt hasn't been the centre of every scene and it's amazing. He just does so well in it. And starters, you mean to go on, I would have Matt at the centre of every scene going forward all season. I'd be very happy with that. No, I totally agree. Like that episode is phenomenal. And if that had not worked. The series could have easily, you know, by the end of it, it could have been all over, really. And so much of it is down to Matt's performance. I mean, that opening scene with Caitlin Blackwood is so wonderful. He's so tremendous in it. And I know he's had a go. Like he's been doing the show for a little while by the time he does that episode. But we've already said that he nails it from his 1st scene anyway. Simon Hart asks us why is Matt Smith so damn good? He is an actor, I think, who is visibly thinking and trying to do something interesting with what he's got and what he's got is generally very good. But he's thoughtful and finds new ways of doing things. There's that weird physicality that he has, you know, the sort of awkwardness. And on every single take, by all accounts. Yeah, something different. Yeah. Which made it really difficult for the editors to piece together series 5 because every take he'd had a different take on the way to play the scene. Wow. I mean, that's just, you know, an abundance of joy, isn't it? I think it was also because he hadn't really locked in the acting lane that he was in. And so he'd done previous things. He appeared on stage and he'd been very good. He'd been like the sidekick in the Billy Piper series, Ruby and the Smoke, he'd done party animals, and each of those was a slightly different performance and a slightly different expectation. I think it needed a role like the doctor, where you can be many things and bring your own attributes to it, to really kind of define what he was as an actor. And you just kind of, it was a natural fit. And I'm not sure there's been Tom Baker, obviously, but apart from him and Tom, I'm not sure there has been such a natural fit for the role. Yeah, tenants of performance. Like tenant is much more kind of calm and saturnine is a real person than his doctor is. So it's definitely an acting performance. And, you know, with Sylvester, I think maybe he's a lot like his doctor and he's sort of quite interesting to watch. Um, but he sometimes fails at some of the acting hurdles that are sort of presented to him. But I think he also is someone who is that sort of doctor. Yeah, and I don't necessarily mean bringing a lot of yourself to the role to craft the role around you, but just finding a role that suits the kind of actor that you are. Yeah. I think it's interesting when you look back on all the classic doctors. I think Tom is the one that is instantly there and very much the performance maybe from his 2nd story is a performance that you could say is there in his last story. Whereas everybody else, there is a shakedown period, I think, with everyone. I think you can see a shift in all of their performances after, you know, a number of stories or a season and a half or whatever it happens to be. I think the other thing with Matt is the fact that he gets to pull all this stuff on camera without it being broadcast. So he's quite free to do whatever he wants and take risks and try things and just be him. And, you know, riders haven't necessarily seen him. There's no preconceived sort of ideas about what he should be doing. And so I think that really does help him in this season, perhaps to go out there and redefine the role and and make it as broad or as narrow as he wants. It's funny. I've sort of suggested before that I think that maybe once he is a known quantity, the writing tries to get him to do sort of Matt Smith style things, and I wonder what we'll think of that when we actually start to look closely at what's to calm. I think that also had an impact on the performance because the 1st thing that Matt shot after the series had gone out and he knew that he'd been a success and the show was still a success was his appearance in the Sarah Jane adventures. And then he came back and did a Christmas carol. And I think his performance in both of those and going forwards is appreciably different, not better, not worse, but a little bit different because he has that confidence of knowing that he was a success. I was about to say, there's a confidence in him, especially in that Christmas special. He's more confident. I'm not saying dramatically more, but there is just a little something, you know? I think too, and we're going to talk about this in our next episode, in a few weeks time, that Stephen Moffatt is now writing for him, and it's Stephen Moffatt doing the Christmas special that he had always wanted to do. So it's extremely good, but he's definitely writing for Matt's strengths in it. And I think it's a real kind of peak of Matt's performance in the show. Do you think that some of this series is not written for Matt? like it was written for David and it was just left or we went back and revised it. I mean, because obviously Stephen was trying to get David to stay on. My understanding is that they had negotiated with David for quite a while before they made the decision. Well, before David made the decision not to come back. It was months of negotiation. Oh, come back, come back. And he almost did. So I think there's there's a truth in that that those 1st sort of 4 or 5 episodes are not necessarily pitched format, but he's still brilliant in them. There was also quite a long lead up for this series. It had a very long pre-production. So I'm sure that Stephen would have been tailoring the role more for he saw Matt's performance as. All right, time for snob marrying void, I think. Liz 10, Sophie or Nasrene Chaudhary. Oh, God, I love Sophie. I'm like James Corden. I love Sophie. She is so superb. I love Daisy Haggard. So I would, I would snog her, I think. I think I would marry Nurse Ring, because, I mean, I think she's very, very smart and I would absolutely not tire of her. I just think she is one of the best guest stars in this in this season. And it's partly down to, it's mostly down to, um, to the performance though, I think. There is that venerable Doctor Who tradition of pairing the doctor with slightly older female character who comes in. We saw it with Ida Scott. We saw it back in the old days with Dr. Todd from Kinder and that it works every damn time. Yeah, it's great actually older than the doctor as well. And that, that's what happens with Neresa Hughes's character, isn't it, in Kinder? Yeah. Yeah, it works really terrifically well. And then the 3rd choice was... She's the bloody queen, mate. You'd get to be the prince consort. I would. get to be Prince Philip. If you avoid her, she might behead you. Yeah she is great. This is super difficult. They're actually all really good. I got 3 fantastic choices. I really like Liz Tan, and I think it's an amazingly great performance, and it was such a thrill to see her back in episode 12, wasn't it? She's just terrific. But as a Republican, I would have to avoid her, I think. Fair enough. Todd, I take issue with these questions. How come Nathan gets Liz 10 and people like that? And I get Dorium? comic effect. Oh, Peter, you know, I have to get back at you, sir. In my CSO kitchen. But that's one of the things I love about Moffat's Doctor Who in his season plot arcs. He does it again and again where he will get characters that he's introduced throughout the season and then all have them kind of teaming up towards the end of the season. He does it fantastically in series 5, in series 6, you get that twice, really. And it's just fun. And obviously, you know, it's all filmed at the same time and just inserted. But it really gives a sense of coherence and like Todd was saying earlier, that sort of continuous story, like a novel on television. I mean, Russell makes an attempt to bring everything together at the end of the season, but generally, the way he does that is by making the finale a kind of sequel to a story earlier in the run and also foregrounding, the companions' families, which is something that Moffat obviously doesn't have, although Tabitha and Augustus do come in in the final episode. Tiny, tiny, little. It's so great. Is that their name? That's their name. So they have fairy tale names as well, which I just think is terrific. I didn't know that until today. Sounds like what they should have named the cats. What's the aunt's name? Oh, she's Aunt Sharon. Auntie Sharon. Sharon? Tabitha and Augustus. Yeah, I want Sharon to be Tabitha's sister, I think. Although it's not absolutely made clear in the script. And she is fabulous. She does give good exasperated face in that final episode. It was the neris role. That's what I was thinking. Now I'm going to forget about these things after this episode. So it's interesting, isn't it, because Russell creates the family who you follow, whereas Moffatt's more interested in the family of the season, the characters who you've kind of become familiar with and he uses them in the same way. Do you think it's a shame that we never see them again or? I don't... I am happy for the show to move on and do something new. I think that's it. And it very clearly says it's going to do that. At the end of the season finale, they jump in the TARDIS, pop their head out and go, yes, this is goodbye. and run off. It's like, you know, that was fun. We're gonna do something else now. Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about the runaway bride, as opposed to the runaway couple at the moment. Amy or Amelia? Or both. What are your views now that we've seen a whole series? I think that Amy is really great. And I like how spiky she is. I like how sort of sexually aggressive she is. I actually even like how kind of dismissive she is of Rory. I think all of those things are funny. I think she's a good, solid sitcom character. I think Caitlin Blackwood is astonishingly good. as an actor in that 1st scene. Like, just amazing for a child actor. But when she comes back in the finale, she is very sidelined, like she doesn't get to do anything particularly interesting. And so, I don't know. I think that there's something to having an adult woman who is in a sexual relationship in the TARDIS. I'm absolutely on board with it. It's Moffat who introduces it and it is that thing where you don't get to go on adventures because you have to be at home being a wife and we jettison that absolutely firmly in this season and I'm all here for it. Something that I noticed over the range of the season was that Amy is quite a comic book character. I think she's less grounded and less real feeling than someone like Martha. Oh, yeah. Rose. And I think the performance does an awful lot to ground her and to make her seem more like a real person. Karen's got comic ticks and that, most of which work and some of which take me out of it a little bit, but she absolutely brings a gravity to Amy in the serious moments and makes you feel like this is a real person with actual steaks. Wow, a gravity to Amy in serious moments. I could never have put it like that. But now you say it, that's exactly what it is. And that's my discovering in this season that Karen is so much better than I thought. She's got the comedy, but towards the end, when there are large stakes. She really does make you feel for what's going on and I think that's been tremendous. I vocalise that I'm not the greatest fan of Amy, and I still will say that, you know, at times in the season, I do struggle with the characterisation and how she's written, not what Karen's going for. But I'm liking her a lot more, and I'm hoping that that will continue in through next series, which I always did like her more as she went along anyway. But, you know, it's a big jump for me going from what I would say up to this point of the, the, the 4 female companions. She'd be my least favourite, but now I'm not so sure. Moffat gets all the kudos for casting Matt Smith, and so he should because it was an absolute casting coup, but we sometimes forget that he then did the same thing with Karen Gillan and found somebody else who could play in that register and be the perfect accompaniment format, and that's a success in itself. Look, I think the casting of all 3 leads in this series is brilliant. Arthur Darville, you know, is sidelined for the, you know, for a lot of this season, but he's a bloody good actor, and he, he's a perfect foil for their outrageously irresponsible behaviour. Yeah, I think too, given that they are in some sense sitcom characters, like given that so often they're doing jokes and trying to make us laugh, that Arthur fits into that very well. And we talked about that 2 weeks ago in, you know, those absurdly comic moments in the Pandorica opens that centre around, kind of Matt suddenly realising that Arthur's back. And he plays it really, very well, but he is a bit more grounded and he does tend to get lost in the mix a bit in series five. Absolutely Rory is Ricky and the doctor and Amy are both Lucy. Eric Stadnick says Nurse Rory or Centurion Rory. Both. Moffat has a very weird sex comedy thing going on about people getting dressed up in costumes and nurses costumes in particular. There's a scene in press gang where someone says that nurses costumes looked terrible and Linda Day replies sort of fairly awkwardly. Oh, yes, and they're so uncomfortable and then is sort of slightly embarrassed as if she's sort of dressing up as a nurse to have sex with Dexter Fletcher. And it just seems very period. Like he is a middle-aged man writing about sex who wrote sex comedies in the 90s. And so that's why when we 1st meet Karen, she's dressed up as a police woman. And then in our next episode. She'll be dressed as a policewoman and he'll be dressed as a centurion so that they can have sex on the enterprise in their honeymoon. And so they turn up on the bridge looking really shamefaced because these are their sex outfits. It's very weird. This would also explain why Sister Lamont was such a pinup for so many boys in the 70s. Oh, and me, particularly. It explains his homosexuality. I think I'm going to go with Centurion Rory moving forward. He has a confidence about him that perhaps Nurse Rory didn't. Says big finish. Yes. Yeah. Someone said it 3 times. What, Centurion Rory. Yeah, they've done it. They've done a spinoff series with Arthur Darville playing the Lone Centurion. Of course they have. And we know that Centurion Rory gives good sortie. Snog Murry avoid. Prisoner Zero, the Star Whale, or the Ironsides. I saw Prisoner Zero giving you the eye. of them. So I think I'd marry the star whale because it'll put up with a hell of a lot. Yep. Also takes you where you want to go. I'll leave that there. I would snog prisoner Zero. Very carefully, I would think. Very careful. Lots of tea. Yeah, the tongue though. What form? Mostly tongue. What form would it be in? Oh, you get to snug Olivia Goldman. Or Matt Smith? No, definitely, definitely Olivia Coleman. Not in mother mode, though. You wouldn't want to marry him. But the kids were older. The kids would always be there. And I would avoid the Ionsides because they're devious bastards. I really like the Ironside. Yeah, they make your tea. Yeah. Yeah they're good. And then exterminate you. A long time ago, Peter, you mentioned something about Stephen Moffatt failures. How would we react to Stephen Moffatt not hitting an episode out of the ballpark like he has for the last 4 series because he's only had an episode or 2 to do and this year he's had to do so much more. How do you feel about his episodes this year? I'm thinking now about the Beast Below, which I really, really like now, but at the time I thought had a lot of problems. And there's certainly maybe a few little elements in there that don't quite work the way Stephen wanted to, but I actually think is actually a really solid episode of Doctor Who. How do you feel about his, and I put in inverted commas, failures whether that be as a writer of an episode or as the showrunner. I may have put that slightly unkindly for good reason in that when I said that I wanted to see Stephen Moffat fail. I wanted to see an episode where everything was not ideal for him and to see how interesting that would be, whether it was on the production side or whether he was too rushed with writing it, and I'm sad slash overjoyed to report that that hasn't happened this season. We've seen Stephen firing on all cylinders, every episode including the beast below, which I think is a really marvellously good script, maybe not quite achieved by the production, but I think we're going to have to wait until next year to achieve that phenomenon of Stephen being tired and trying to write something and not quite hitting the mark and it being as interesting as it is. If you look at the overall arc of the season. Um, I think looking back on it now when it feels like it's more regular, it's incredible to think that someone was able to step into that program and keep it, and keep its profile and keep it as critically praised as it had been during Russell's era. And I think this brings me to something which is very important with Doctor Who, which is continuity of people running the show. So back in the 1970s, I think Doctor Who goes off the rails when it loses its continuity. So as you go through, you will always have someone who is a key creative under the previous production team. So you'll have, say, Robert Holmes, who is key creative during the Barry Letts era, will become a script editor. And so you have an important figure there who knows how the show works. And Blake 7 clearly killed Doctor Who in the 1970s because it took the 2 people who were the obvious continuity showrunners away. So once you reach the end of the Hinchcliffe era, clearly David Maloney should have been the next producer, having played a very important role. And Chris Belcher was clearly being groomed as the new script editor. And if both of them had stepped in, business as usual, doctor would continue to be a creative and popular success, which didn't have any issues. Unfortunately, they were both poached for Blake 7. And instead you got 2 people who'd never worked on the show and didn't have a clear idea of what they wanted it to be. They would have great successes, but it removed that line of continuity. So bring us back to Stephen Moffat. He was the very clear person who needed to take over. He had done so well under the previous production team and had a very clear idea of what he wanted to do with the show. And I think that could have been gotten wrong very easily and we wouldn't be here talking about the show as a current item now. Yeah. Nathan? I would have to agree with Peter. I think that we are going to start seeing interesting failures next year and those are episodes that I tend to like more than most people, I think, but I do recognise that they fall to bits in all sorts of important ways. I think the flaws in next year's season are also in the ones that Moffatt didn't write, particularly. Here, clearly, for some reason, Chris Chibnell is thought to be a safe pair of hands. And I do think that that two-parter fails. It is not very good. And it's possible that bringing the Silurians back is not a good decision. They've never been back since. We've had the single character of Madame Vastra, who works very well, but we've never had another Silurian story, and I think doing the Silurians is a mistake, and it is possible that the Silurians only really ever work in their 1st story, that they seem to be there to tell a particular story. But Moffatt wants to bring them back into the fold, you know, to be part of Doctor Who Law, the way that Russell had done with the Santarans and the Daleks and the Cyberman. But I think maybe the Salurians were the wrong choice. And so that might be his one kind of bad creative decision this season. Moffatt, I think, fails upwards a lot of the time. either because he's got a good production team around him or because even when things don't work. There's so much creative energy and so many, really through interesting, clever ideas that he uses again and again and again by the end of his era. I think if you can criticise Buffett for anything, it's being too creative and having too many ideas to fit into an episode. It's never an absence of that. It's never, oh, he was trying something, and he didn't have the skill to achieve it. Something else has gone wrong. It's not, that wasn't a good enough idea. That wasn't clever enough. That wasn't witty enough. Like he's he's always reaching for something. He doesn't always get there, but he's always got an abundance of creativity and ambition, I think. Stephen has a baseline of ambition and creativity, doesn't he? He will always deliver on something for you. So no matter how tired, how pressured, how many things he's got on his plate, whatever he serves you up will have something or many things in it where you go, that's interesting. It's just whether it comes together in a brilliant hole. Most of the time it does, sometimes it doesn't. You could never accuse him of having a lack of imagination. No. I think it's interesting, like, Peter, you were saying, and I agree with you, I think all of these episodes that he writes this year, are a success. The episodes that are not written by him. There are some that are a big success and others that perhaps are not quite as successful, right? And as a showrunner, I mean, you compare with Russell as to throwing around terms here, success and values, and we're never quite sure how much of a rewrite things are and how much they're put into the script. And so I think it's always interesting to look at those episodes perhaps not written by him and just seeing how successful they perhaps are and how much of a season thematic continuity is worked in and seeing whether you can really see his hand in it or not. I find that quite interesting. It's rarely commented on the fact that Stephen doesn't have Stephen. So Russell was very lucky and that he had 2 episodes a year sometimes, which he could just hand off to Stephen and they would come back fully formed and so we had those and we had the Russell episodes. Stephen doesn't have a Stephen. Yeah, there's no one completely reliable whom he doesn't have to kind of rewrite. That's right. Not yet. Liam McNicholas. Ask us this. Would you like to see Simon Nye and Richard Curtis Wright more who? I think they have a very different take and would love to see another one. You were talking about this the other day in one of the episodes about having these one-off writers that Stephen knows that have done big films and other things and it's really great to see their different take on things and bring a different slant to stuff and it's really interesting. I personally don't necessarily see them coming back again because I think it's their one big idea that they've got, that they've always wanted to do on Doctor Who, and it's a case of sequelitis. But I do like the fact that if you bring in big names to do an episode. I think we get that perhaps with the doctor's wife next year right? You often have a genesis of an idea that, depending on how much they write or what Stephen takes with it, can then form an episode that is exceptional. And we've seen that with Vincent and the doctor, which I don't necessarily think is the best episode ever, but the last 15 minutes just saw. I think that this is something that Russell had tried to do, isn't it? He tried to get Stephen Fry. He tried to get Paul Abbott. He had wanted to get sort of big riders from TV outside of the show. I mean he gets... sometimes did, Matthew Graham, for instance. Yeah, Matthew Graham, exactly. How did that go? And yes, maybe both Matthew Graham and Neil Gaiman are sort of good counterexamples to this because when they come back, I think they don't do anywhere near as good a job as they do the 1st time. And Matthew Graham did fear her, which is not great, but it also suffers from its incredible similarity to the idiot's lantern. So that's a problem for it, but it does at least try and do something different. The monster is something that we've never experienced before. He doesn't know how Doctor Who works, so he thinks they're going to be able to recreate the opening ceremony of the 2012 games in a way that is in any way satisfactory. And of course, they can't do that. But having someone who is skilled at writing television, but not versed in Doctor Who, I think is a good idea. And one of the problems with say it in the 80s, for instance, is that he had sort of ring fenced around the people that he thought could write Doctor Who, and he would say, most people can't do it you know, most people can't write Doctor Who, even if they're good writers. And one of the things that make Karm more successful is he throws that out and just gets young riders in and gets them to write brilliant Doctor Who. basically creates a sort of an embryonic writer's room. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he was very collaborative in that. And that's why his series of Doctor Who are still highly regarded I think, because it was so collaborative and like there was a coherence there. As a showrunner, you have to be willing to put in the work with someone who's not familiar with the series or maybe hasn't written in that genre before, but the point of getting involved, people like Simon Nye on Amy's choice and Richard Curtis, was they bring a voice? Yeah. And that voice is so important to the episodes that they have. Maybe the problem with Matthew Graham was he didn't particularly bring a voice. And so fear her doesn't feel like anything in particular, but I absolutely applaud Stephen for doing that. I think that the people he brings on board make for really interesting episodes, maybe not 100% successful, but really interesting. I was astounded this time around by Amy's choice and how incredibly good it is. And by how it's absolutely pivotal to the season arc. And I just would love to know how that happened. Like, to what extent was he briefed by Stephen? You know, at what point was he told this has to be the episode where we really properly discovered that Amy loves Rory? It's so important and it's so good. It's so interesting. It's properly hilarious. It's imaginative. You know, he creates a great role in the Dreamlord. I think he's really, really good. So, yeah, I'm 100% behind bringing people like that in, but eventually I think there's probably diminishing returns. like all that you've said. Like, I think coming in for an episode is good. having them back again, probably not so much, and also what you said about the fact that Russell did have Stephen, that he could rely on. Stephen doesn't have that same person. And so, I think, as he gets tighter and more production begins to speed up and he's got less time, then you start to see a few more cracks, but that doesn't mean to say that's a bad thing. There's still interesting things happening. Some episodes are more successful than others and we'll obviously talk more about that as we, as we move forward. I think I saw a few cracks this season. Just a few. Boom, boom. Well, speaking of episodes, is there a particular episode this season for any of you that stands out above the rest? I think there's been some really amazing episodes and I could talk about them until the cows come home. The 11th hour, obviously just an amazing opening episode that takes, as I said earlier, so many boxes and does it so well. I think Pandora opens, has a strong case for being the most successful episode of Doctor Who ever, just in how well it fulfils its mission. The time of angels 2 parter is phenomenally good and possibly my favourite. My favourite story of the entire new era, just because it is so many things and so exciting and a level of production that I don't think we'd ever seen before. However, having said all of that, the lodger. The lodger is fantastic. It is so warm and so fun and does things the Doctor Who's never done before and wow, you know, we're 50 years into the show and we're still seeing new styles of episode. I never would have thought that you would have picked the lodger. That's amazing. Yeah, it's great. I think that's something about this season that there's so many it's so similar, but it's so different and you can, you can pick anything, you know? I mean, I really adore the 11th hour and I know it's not part of this season, but the Christmas special is the other one for me that is the big standout, but just coming back to this, every single episode, there are moments that I really love in every single episode, whether that be heart wrenching or funny or whatever. And so, I can pick 2 episodes that I don't particularly care for which is the 2nd part of that Silurian 2 part, which I think is appalling or very standard, and the 2nd half, well, bits and pieces of the Dalek episode, right? They're my 2 that I see falling down, right? But everything else is enjoyable and moments that I would do not. I think it's after the 1st 13 minutes, isn't that? 13.5 minutes. Yeah, the 1st 13.5 minutes are great. And then there's the rest of the episode. Oh, come on, there's the Jamie Dodger thing. Nathan, I would absolutely agree with Peter's choices there. Like almost exactly. I think those are the best episodes of the season and they're not just very good. They're astoundingly good in places as good as Doctor Who has ever been. I want to give props to the overlooked vampires of Venice, partly because Helen McCrory is so spectacularly great in it and plays against Matt Smith so well. But it also has the sort of it's got 2 unenviable jobs. And one is being just a standard episode amidst a whole heap of things that are a bit more kind of interesting. And 2 is being the 1st attempt, the 1st failed attempt to get Amy to realise how much he loves Rory. So it doesn't actually work. It doesn't actually do anything and we have to wait till the following episode for that to actually happen. But despite that, it just manages to be solidly enjoyable and to look pretty great as well. If that's the standard of your standard episode is pretty high standard, yeah. Besides, what we always say that, you know, a boring episode is the greatest crime, but interesting failures are much more interesting than moderate successors. And so even though vampires of Venice doesn't hit, it doesn't score on everything, it's so interesting in so many ways. With the beast below, it's the other really improved for me this time round. And I agree with everything that you just said about that. For me, it would be Vincent and the Doctor, to me, regardless of quality, Vincent, the Doctor is my favourite Doctor Who story of all time. You are very upper middle class, though, Jess. Yes, I am. It's just got an emotional resonance with me. To think growing up, watching Doctor Who, that Doctor Who could do that, could address depression and mental health and do it in a quite considered and respectful way and nuanced way. I, like, it's just I cry for most of that episode. And to me, it's like the pinnacle of what Doctor Who can be, and it's almost... feels like it fits more in Russell's era, Doctor Who, because of emotional heart there. And being Doctor Who had achieved all of that and threw in a giant invisible turkey as well. But even then, you know, crap monster, there's a point to that as well. And you feel sorry for that monster. that, like, wounded alien creature as well. And it's, I know, I just, I just love it so much. It never ceases to bring a tear tear eye at some point in it. I mean, the whole them just lying in the field with a starry starry night. Like that's that's an amazing moment as much as, you know, for Amy at the end or Vincent in his own museum, you know, they're all just incredible moments in that episode, which is, well, sound like a broken record, just amazing. But now I'll just change tack. And I'm just going to go to Snog, marry, and avoid for myself, and it's Rosanna Calvieri, Rest tack, and Ambrose. You're marrying Ambrose, aren't you? Todd is Ambrose. Oh wow. Ambrosia steeped in it. I'm avoiding Ambrose. I'm going to snog wrestack. That tongue. Yeah, yeah. Which means, you know, I'm going to have to marry Rosanna. She is spectacular. Another spectacular older woman with Matt Smith. So let's talk about the other older woman that we haven't spoken about yet, and that has to be River Song, and her involvement with this era of the show. If Alex Kingston had no chemistry with Matt Smith. would be over. I think that she is fantastic. It's one of my favourite things about this era is that you have her dropping in occasionally. I love the episodes that she's in. I think she just lifts any episode that she's a part of. I think she's wonderful with Matt. I think the concept of the character is terrific. I think that 1st introduction in David's last season and the way that that story ends is, you know, astonishing, if not sort of 100 original, I'm totally on board for it, she's absolutely one of the highlights of the era. And if you can get Alex Kingston to agree to be on your show as much as that, use her as much as possible. Yeah, she is fantastic, isn't she? Do you know who she reminds me of? From the classic series in terms of her importance and her utility? Corporal Bell. There were freak weather conditions on that beach. No, the brigadier, actually. Yeah, I was thinking that too. She's that important to the show and she just she walks into the series and pitches her performance so perfectly and the character fits in so well that she she's in danger of taking over the series. She's like the master. And every time she comes onto the screen. She absolutely draws your eye and is another principle to match the doctor. It's an incredible creation river song. I'd happily let her take over the show. No more Matt. Well, no, no. Just, you know, like, the more river in a Doctor Who season, the better, in my opinion. Can you think of a female character who's been quite like that ever? In the series? Well, yeah, like in Doctor Who, up until this point, because she has that sort of swagger and bravado and that sort of, you know she's an adventurer, but she's like super glamorous and confident and absolutely sort of feminine. I just think she's so fabulous. It's so interesting. I think of the Rani. But the Rani was so 80s and so of that time and that production team that they never achieve anything of the heights of River song but she was definitely a prototype kind of character who could have taken over the show in that interesting way. Yeah, I think she's... She is a little bit more panto, like in her 2nd appearance, which is kind of my favourite. And I like her a great deal, but there is something about this. And, you know, like we end up complaining that Moffatt writes strong women because he loves being bossed around by women and that's his kind of thing. Like, well, he likes the idea of a sort of hapless man who has a woman to come in and kind of sort him out. And that's been variously interpreted as empowering or, you know, a bit sexist by different critics. But I really like her. I just think she's amazingly charismatic and she's just fun to have around. That thing at the beginning of Time of Angels. That whole sort of wonderful caper sequence and she's in a sort of gorgeous evening dress and all of that, the heels, the glasses, the glasses. It's wonderful. It's so enjoyable. You know, it occurs to me, as we're speaking now, that there's sometimes debate over whether the river is a companion or not, you know, one of those useless canonical debates, but she's not a companion. She's a doctor. She's given the same amount of on-screen presence and backstory and scenes that she has to herself that she leads and she's played by an actress who is of a calibre where she just easily could have been the doctor. And so when have we had that in the past? It's interesting that you compared it to the brigadier, because I was just thinking going along the lines of having her in there is like having this older female that pops up in all these stories but it's an ongoing one, but you're so totally right. She just is that other lead in the show. And she's brilliant. I'm lover. I know we're doing the River song podcast. We just did it So this is one for everybody. Snogmarrier, void. Vincent, Craig, Jeff. So easy, very. Snog, Jeff, because look at him, marry Craig and avoid Vincent because drama. Yeah. Well, that lasted all the 5 times. See, see, I would marry Vincent because he needs someone to support him. You want to fix her upper? No, I just, I have compassion for him. Baby. Also, he died quite early and left a large estate. No, he did. He left in a 100 years time. Lovely painting. Well, it's mainly about the lovely paintings. I think Jeff. Oh, Jeff. I know, what a waste. The pretty one. I said on screen. It's so funny that line. And Rory's reaction. Oh, thanks. So great. So I yes, I think if I started snogging Jeff, I wouldn't stop. Who are you a fan of this season in terms of actors and actresses that have come into the show as guest stars? Well, Olivia Coleman, obviously. And Helen. And Helen McCrory, I think, probably. And Daisy Haggard. Oh, Daisy Haggard, absolutely. I mean, it's an unshowy part, isn't it? She is magnificent. And you know, it's got to know her and things like back to life and episodes. with her famous catchphrase. So she's wonderful. But, I mean, the casting in that episode. is spectacular, the lodger. We get Daisy Haggard. We get James Corden, who then was sort of at the peak of his dramatic power. on British screens. And I mean, can we just say how many great people have we had from the history boys? We had James Corden. Of course, we're going to get Danny Pink in a couple of seasons time. Dominic Cooper and people like that who've just been amazing. And Russell Toby, of course. So that provided... Sasha. Well, how could I miss my boyfriend Sasha? We don't talk much about his career, yeah. Too busy doing that. You just stare longingly. That's correct. But, I mean, that production unleashed an enormous amount of talent into British screens. And I think James Corden was the perfect choice to play that role in the lodger. It wouldn't have been as charming with anyone else. There's so many to pick from. There really is. I mean, I can't remember actors and actresses names, but if we go with like Liz 10, or if we go with Nasrin Chowdhry, or if we go with Vincent, you know, episode after episode has somebody in it that is a name that is a standout that is a character. I think Tony Curran is amazing, as Vincent, and you had to really get, as well as it's written, you had to get someone who could just look like him and embody that character. And I think he does an incredible job. I will go back to Helen Macquarie again back in the vampires of Venice because I think she is that good. And serenely beautiful. Oh magnificent. I think it's really difficult to choose. a favourite this season. There are so many good guest actors. Helen McCrory is amazing. Going back to watching this season, I was never a huge fan of Vampires of Venice because, like you said earlier, Nathan is a standard episode. There's nothing really plot wise in the season that makes it that important. Oh, so I thought when I was watching it, but she is amazing. She's a brilliant. She was a brilliant actress. Yeah, it's really, it's really difficult to choose someone not to like. That's because you're a complicated space-time event. The dream lord. Toby... Toby Jones. Toby Jones, I think does a phenomenal job in that episode. So let's do a dog, Mary avoid. Strong Mary avoid. Bracewell. Father Octavian, the Dream Lord. You'd have to avoid the Dream Lord, surely. Yeah, particularly in that sort of 70s, you know, shirt open to the waist look that he does. right. in his butcher's frock trying trying to do Amy in her nurse's frock and not succeeding. He's he is amazing, Todd, isn't he? He really is something. It's a great character too. And I'm glad it doesn't go anywhere. It's just a one off, a super weird kind of quirk in the doctor's psychology or something. For space reason. Yeah, space reasons. We don't have to go back and kind of find out what planet he's from or anything like that. He's really good. I think you have to avoid the Dreamlord. I'd snog Father Octavian? Oh, yeah, I think that's the logical choice. You want to see the best of him, don't you? Yes, yes. And so that leaves us with... Bracewell. Bracewell seems like a bit of an old romantic. I think I could put up with that. nice little house Yeah absolutely, you'd have competition with that woman he was always talking about. Yeah, Adorabella. Dorabella, where is that name from? Sorry, I just have never heard of it before, and, you know, that's my middle name. Just stop it, Peter. Wasn't that the name of, um, It's like a cow name, isn't it? Like, where does it come from? Like, I mean, we know a lot of eccentric British names. No offence to anybody who's from Britain who makes... Oh, he's called Torabella. I've never heard of that. Like, Esme, whatever it happens to me, adorable. It reminds me of Doris from the Silurians. There's so many in my barn. I was going to say, Mrs. Watson name's kitchen. What's her name? Mrs. Farrell. That Farrell. Yeah. It was actually Rodan's 1st name in the Invasion of Time. Whatabella Road? Yeah, yeah. Not many people know. Just draw for short. Yeah, just me and Andrew Pixley know that one. He was a very popular name on Gallifrey. was also Dorabella Angen. Oh, dear. All right. Let's head into Jenny Laird. Oh, Jenny Lanner Ward. It goes to Stephen Moffat for giving Chris Chibnell an important two-part episode at the end of the season. I will not be elaborating further on that at this time. I think the puzzling creative choice has to be the obvious one those Daleks. But we secretly like them. We secretly do, but there's a reason that we secretly like them and don't openly like them. I love Nathan and Peter, both of your choices. I think they're great. I can't come up with anything to supersede that. I really can't, you know, I really can't. James. It has to be those Staleks. They were so close in a lot of ways. Like the idea of very far away in lots of other ways. Yeah, yeah, they like, it was a great idea to redesign them. you know, to freshen them up. And I think the idea of making them pop art colours is not necessarily a bad one. It's the fiddling too much with the design of them, the humpback the, you know, tiny, tiny heads. The tiny heads and the big asses. right here. And you can tell from the moment that they like made the decision to make certain design changes that they regretted it because they spend the next, you know, 3 or 4 seasons, like every time they come back, you know, shooting them instead of ways, repainting them. Um, multicolidelics is a great idea. And it's such a cruel juxtaposition with the Ionsides in that story, which look phenomenal. Yeah, yeah. And they basically just say, well, the iron sides are no more which gets every fan offside, I think, you know? So it's an important time now for Stog Mario, avoid. The new Salurians, the new Dalek paradigm or Angel Bob. Oh, Angel Bob. Pre-getting his spine ripped out. post. The only chance I stand, I think. That jawline. Wow. I mean, look, you wouldn't... You wouldn't remember it. That's true. You just have to experience it again and again. I have a big soft spot for the new Silurians. I think that they're good. I'd marry them Not Malakare though. Yeah, he's a monster. But we talked about this in the episodes. I think that you can't have super rubber faced people and still have that work. You need to have an actors' performance. So I think they're quite well judged. And certainly the success of Madame Vastra kind of... Yeah, yeah. And if there is a slight problem this season and it's not a big problem at all. I think that the design sometimes misses. I think that the new Daleks were misconceived. They got wrong, the things were trussle absolutely got right when he brought the Daleks back. I think the Silurians aren't entirely successful in their prosthetics and the way that they look and why they are the Silurians, if they're going to be so different. And, you know, just on a smaller level, things like the Dalek control room and victory of the Dalek. doesn't work. And so there's a couple of noticeable lapses in design work, just a couple. So you're avoiding the new Dialect paradigm and you're marrying angel Bob. Is that correct? Uh, I would snog and marry Angel Bob. Thank you for clarifying that Then try and avoid him and die. All right. The Bonnie Langford, the startling discovery or moment of... Oh, I think the Bonnie Langford Award should go to Karen Gillen. She's an unknown actress, really, at that point. And she has gone on to great success since. But she's just revelation. I think that Bonnie Langford goes to Matt Smith. I'll be allowed to choose him. Yeah, absolutely. I'm choosing Matt Smith. I think he is astonishing. And immediately astonishing. In fact, maybe not immediately, maybe he doesn't land that scene at the end of End of Time part two. You know, like he's not quite sure what he's doing. Which has charms all the time. Yes, yeah. To be fair, he has half of the Tartars in his mouth at that point. Yeah, yeah, I know. But it suddenly, suddenly... We won't see that again until the door is away. But he suddenly appears on the scene at the beginning of the 11th hour and he's incredible. And it's a kind of doctor that we hadn't had in the new series because you had Russell saying, I don't want the doctor to be eccentric. He's got the time machine and all of that. He's got enough going on. He doesn't have to wear a silly costume. He doesn't have to be a weirdo. But it turns out making him eccentric and making him into the eccentric old man that he was when the show started was a brilliant idea and that Matt was the perfect person for it. So mine goes to Matt Smith. I mean, Matt is the obvious choice, but can I also say, Matt Smith's doctor, Bonnie Langford's companion. I would watch an entire series of that. Say it 3 times. My Bunny Langford will go to Adam Smith, the director of the Time of Angels 2 parter and the 11th hour because he resets this series and brings let the series in general and brings a confidence and a style and a focus to production that is unprecedented, I think, in Doctor Who. I don't know if I really got one. I think, you know, I think Karen's a startling discovery, for me Matt is phenomenal. I've always loved Arthur Darvel in the role. It might even be the vampires of Venice, could be my Bonnie Langford for an episode that I had really discounted and one that just really surprised me so much and how pivotal you've mentioned is to the whole season. And I guess the other moment for me, originally was the starry night when they were lying down in the fields and seeing the heavens just come to life as a painting. Every time I watch that episode this season, that moment is just there for me. All right, we're about to embark on series 6. Where do you sit with that at the moment? What are your thoughts or what do you hope to discover? I think I'm going to be disappointed because I originally thought series 6 was better than series 5 and I think I'm going to be terribly, terribly underwhelmed by it. I hope I'm not, but I think I will be. I've watched ahead because I wanted to be more familiar with Matt sort of generally before we started doing series 5. And I think there are some good things in series 6, but I think that I think that he tries to do a similar arc centred on Amy and a particular kind of milestone that she reaches in her life. And I think that the treatment of it is weird and upsetting. And I think that there's a significant problem in the production that causes it to be split into 2 parts. There's something going on in the background that actually starts to affect the quality of what we see on screen. But nevertheless, it's still like incredibly entertaining and I think there are some amazing episodes in it and some really dismal ones. Peter? I think I'll get my wish of seeing Moffat fail, and that will be very interesting and nevertheless absorbing viewing. I think also the series loses maybe a little bit of its reviewer next series. That may not be true. I'm looking forward to rewatching it and seeing. For me, what I'm looking forward to is seeing where Karen goes with the role of Amy because I'm reevaluating her and I'm now starting off in a much better place. So that may affect what I actually think of a number of episodes. But I say this quite openly, I consider series 6 to be the worst Moffat season for me by far in all of the 6 that he did do. Others won't agree. Um, but it's my least favourite. I'm going to see where, obviously, made up. You'll end up loving it. Listeners, I am looking at Nathan now with my desk stair look that I give to children in class who won't shut up or say a smart comment that just does not impress me very much, but hey, you know me. I'll end up loving. Thank you. Well, Davis, now that's all we had time for this week, and for this series of Doctor Who. We'll be back in a few weeks' time for Christmas in July with a Christmas carol. In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts and you can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety on Facebook at FT Podcast on Twitter, and on our website, FlightthroughEntirety com, where you'll find links to our other podcasts, Bondfinger, and Jody Intetera. Until next time, whatever it is, whatever you're doing, let's make it a good one, eh? We'll see you soon. Thank you very much for listening and good night. Good night. See you later. Good night. That was Flight 3 Entirety, starring Todby, will be Nathan Bottomley, Peter Dorabella Griffiths and James Selwood. Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. This episode of Brilliant Pole was recorded on the 6th of June 2020 and released on the 13th of June. We're off in a few weeks, holiday now, so if you need us, we've got our sunglasses, our sun lotion, and our water wings, and you'll find us sitting in a fizzy puddle somewhere on the planet Florama. Oh, wait, should that red light be flashing? I think your phone is buzzing. It might be an idea to take it off the table. Oh, okay. Someone's is. Might have been mine. It could have been me. No, that was 8 minutes ago. Anyone else fancy sister Lamont? Pre-Zigon. Or post? I loathe this abomination of a body. He was the sucker, persistently. I think we pay that one. Come on. A fetish, please, locking people in oxygen tanks. What's the safe word? Scaraza. Well, on that note, James, Snog Murray avoid.