Bring Back the Drahvins

Hello and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety, the weekly Doctor Who podcast that agrees with Garman. Shoes are insane, Davros. I'm Brendan. I'm Nathan. I'm Todd. I'm Richard. All right. That's who you are. Our transmat beam has been intercepted, and we are being sent like a scrambled Morse message onto the quarry-like world of Scarrow for Genesis of the Daleks. Exactly the same thing happens in Rocky Horror picture show. Prepare the transmat beam. I don't know that Davros and Nida. Have we watched The Simpsons yet? It feels like it's been on. Wasn't actually Davros and Ida just based on Monty Burns and Smithers. I'm sure The Simpsons has been playing that long. Well, Slithers and Mr. Burns, and possibly Davros and Nyder, were based on comedia de latte characters. The leather masks. And specifically there is a character. I believe he's called Alacino, who was the old miser, hook nosed bald headed, spoke with a thought and rat. Nothing anti-Semitic in this at all. And certainly, well, Semitism or anti-Semitism is a strong theme of this story because we're going right back to something you said originally, Richard, way back when, about a year ago when we were doing the Daleks, where you said, this is not a story about Nazism. This is a story about communism. It was definitely then. Yeah, not necessarily now. I remember you said at the time, you know, it's not until a guy, I believe you said someone comes in in their woo-woo funny wheelchair that it becomes about Nazism. Okay, it says that Terry Nation wrote this on screen, but deterioration actually write this? It's too good. I was thinking about preparing my list. You know, the last... Nathan's list, have a drink list. No, the last 2 times we had a Terry Nations three. I just did a list of things that appear in the story. It can't be Terry Nation. There's no one called Tarrant. There's an uncle Tarrant, but in fact, there's actually very few of the things that Terry is kind of known for. Yeah, I mean, we've got Severin, who is just kind of a retread of Belle Al or Wester. Except you know where the name Severn comes from, don't you? Severn is Dr. Sasha Masix's hero in Venus in Furs. The term masochism comes from this novel by Sasha Masick. He was the victim of the batan character. And his Venus Infurs had the short blonde hair and was it, you can look up masochism, if you care to. So everyone is a character. And if you, and if you're home, don't look out for you. I mean, or you can just listen to the velvet underground on Lou Reed song, Venus and First, which will give you the entire synopsis of the novel. No, sir, it's quite a deliberate ploy that there are some very dark undercurrents in this story. Severn, Severn is the massacres in that story. Okay. Well let me just get back to my list. Is that all right? Is there a space plate? I really want a space plate. So there's no space plague. We do have Western and Bell El's... Cousin. Bell end cousin. And people are toting a lot of bombs around the place too. That's always a bit of a thing. But, you know, otherwise it's actually not full of the normal terry nation things. And so I think what's happening here is what will later happen in Blake 7. where Terry can write a good action adventure romp, but is really ropey with dialogue in Blake 7. You've got him writing the stories in the 1st bit and Chris Boucher fixing the dialogue. Here, you've got someone, I think, perhaps even more skilled than Chris Boucher in Bob Holmes. And certainly the 1st scene is classic homes. I mean, in fact, there is an initial scene where we get some World War one arconography with the gas masks and people shooting each other and... The 1st time there were proper letters. And the 1st time Mary Whitehouse noticed Doctor Who. Because it's all done in slow motion. no blood or anything. And as I was watching this, I was going, I can't remember this. Like, had I just blacked it out? Maybe we were just so young. Did they cut it? Anyway. But the 1st proper scene is the scene between the doctor and the timelord. And so a timelord comes, just like in terror of the autons, to explain the background of the plot, to the doctor and to send him on his mission. And the scene is very similar, except that Tom's demeanour is sort of different. Like her twee is sort of sardonic and camp and hilarious. Do you know what I mean? And you'd better think of a witty way of dealing with it then. And the time mode is, of course, you know, absurd. Yeah, yeah. So this guy's dressed like a kind of... Well, you know what he is actually dressed. What is he? Well, you know what he's dressed at. Thank you. The 7th seal. If any of our listeners, the lovely listeners live in Sydney, the Sydney Film Festival, I think 51st is just played and one of my all-time favourite film directors, Ingmar Bergman. I think we've cited him before. They've just had a retrospective of some of his great films. He really is superb. If you want to know, in Marburgman, just look up French and Saunders doing all of his greatest films because it is actually they get it right. But no, this is almost shot for shot, the opening scene of 7th seal, and we can bookend that beautifully. The dance at the end of 7th seal is the same thing that happens with the time ring at this. It's very deliberate. Very deliberate. And it's the same collar and it's the almost the same exposition but it's certainly newest in the same tropes of acting that you see with between Tom. I think it's one of Tom's greatest scenes. It's just a tiny little moment. Daleks. Tell me more. It's wonderful. beautiful, isn't it? But yeah, yeah, he's definitely death and the night. And I believe that comes from David Maloney, because as I understand it, in the script, in the script, the... He was floating in the air wearing a bowl hat. The timelord actually brings the doctor to a garden, a beautiful garden. Right. And there's Billy in the background with his roses. They are a dandy a clown and what the hell are you? What are you young people doing inside my garden? And then drops him in the middle of the quarry and that was meant to be the big shock. So yeah, it's David Maloney who's bringing in the Ingmar Bergman. And a considerable saving for the beep. Another shoot. And I also would like to recommend for the listener. And I'm damn sure we can find a link for it. The McCalliff program, Sean McCalliff's ABC Variety slash sketch series. That's ABC Australian broadcasting is not ABC American. Yes, or indeed Associated British Corporation. Which became Thames TV in 1970. No one remembers. But he and Wayne Hope do an excellent take on incumbent. That's the 7th seal. And I'm not going to say anything well because otherwise I'll reveal the punchline. Fuck. Anyway, moving on. Yeah, it's such a strong opening. It's because we have, we have that harrowing scene with all those people being mowed down and then going on through the mist, like the battle goes, and that just tells you the battle goes on. It's a very economic or very effective way of storytelling. And then we have that scene and then we have Sarah and Harry arriving. So hooray. Yeah, but then there's like that whole barrage and poor Sarah is screening through it all. covering her ears. It's awful, isn't it? You know, and even when they go from that great location work to in the studio, I mean, then, you know, they're all casting down there. What you think about the mind? They're lying under deadline. What do you think about the mine? Because apparently that's one of the things that the Bill Slater said were really queried. You know, it's Tom standing on a landmine. they thought was too much. I just think it's brilliant. And as a child, that's not a threat because as children. You know that at the very same time, Paul Pot was training 12 year old boys and the Khmer Rouge to use landlines because a 12 year old child doesn't know threat, should we say, ontological threat have a drink? But that doesn't doesn't recognise those sorts of threats because they're not immediate. So for a child watching this drama, that kind of stuff and the explosions and the noise, children are a burst of noise. I didn't find that so horrifying. I think that as a parent I might have, but no, I actually don't think it's that good. I actually don't think it's that good a scene because there is I'm so glad you're here. There isn't all... It's a very terry nation scene. Do you know what I mean? It is, it's like we'll, like we get lots and lots of Harry puts rocks under a landmine for a while. We more or less fairly certain that Tom's not going to be blown up. Do you know what I mean? We don't really learn anything about anyone. So I'm not sure that that's so great. But that scene does also have. And Todd, I know you've mentioned sort of Sarah having to scream and be scared of the explosions, but it does also have Sarah figuring out that this is a war of attrition. because she is the one who notices that, you know, this soldier is in a sort of natural, rough hewn fibre, but this is a modern synthetic fibre. I hate that scene again. Because, and then someone says, and this weapon dates from a long time before this weapon. Can we just have a moment? Do you know where the laser rifle actually originates with the yellow person? Is it a drama? Well done. It is, in fact, they are driving guns that are being storage. And the funny thing is, a very strikingly similar design is used as the phaser rifles on Star Trek next generation. We'll get it. Do you think the giraffe will segue everywhere? Well, look at Deanna Troy's hair. What? Anything, anywhere. Actually, especially season one. She's got the bun head. She got the decorations in it. She just doesn't have the stick on Daimonte eyebrows. No, she would never cut it as a drive-in. Bring back the drive-ins, I say. Come on, Steve. So I don't think that seems very good because you've got 3 characters saying the same thing 3 times. It's like 3 bits of evidence that this is a war of attrition. And so it's just slightly inept, I think. But it's nice to have all 3 of them together because they're going to be separated very soon and Sarah's offer on her own little adventure for a few episodes. And the doctor and Ian have to confront Lieutenant Gruber. Yeah. Yes, from a level, our third. Appearance from somebody from a level. Yes, indeed. And of course, Nyder is on the case very early, giving a lot of exposition in that scene. Well, don't you remember? Is does when does Snyder appear? Does Snyder appear after they escape and get recaptured? No, they just before and he goes, Raven, get down and then they shoot. Yes, yes. It's after they've it's after they've taken control of Raven. And I have to say, you know, I think I said when we were talking about invasion of dinosaurs. This is Peter Miles' best performance in Doctor Who. Because the 2 professors he's played before were essentially the same character. I actually think diabetic is a little bit more low key because remember, Dr. Lawrence is transigent base commander. So he's a panicky idiot. But they both have this style of delivery. No, it does as well. and I just still super cat. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, stop it. Midnight general, the order specifies midnight. You're really going out on a limb there. The difference the difference is the control in the voice. Because there's always that degree of panic with professors Whittaker and Lawrence. There is never a degree of panic tonight. I know, he's terrific. They bring back Peter Miles for the I-Davros audio series. And in that, you know, he's 20 years younger. He's the leader of a crack commando squad. And listening to him here and looking at him here. You can believe that. You can believe that he used to use elite his own raids. You can believe that he is a, it's, it is an incredible acting challenge to play this character who is very camp and very nasal and very sardonic, but you can believe that he would, he has 20 ways to kill you in 2 seconds. Just with a look with a withering remark. Just with a paper card. So he's wearing the iron cross. Yes, and you disappears halfway through... You know why? They kept telling him to take it off. It's his own That's kind of bizarre. Heater Miles had a collection of Nazi memorabilia. Ask him about it, the next con you go to. Have you ever interviewed Peter Meyer? did not know that. Well, why not? I don't think he's got a collection of that, does he? He does. in the notes. It's in the notes. No, he does. And Hinchcliffe was saying, look, you know, kind of a bit far pinched. Oh, come on, it's glorious. Anyway, I'm just getting a fail for me part. Before he's off to the aerodrome. He does. He does, he does, you couldn't possibly know. That doesn't make any sense because Davros can't reach that high. There are so many great lines in this. It's very difficult to talk about this as a story because we just keep getting sunk into the details because this is one of those gestolt to have another drink where all the some of the parts go up to make the hole in the, I can't tell which bit is more glorious, the hole or the bits. It does the thing that has actually been happening this season which is that each episode introduces something new. So what's the new thing here? So episode episode one. Do you know what I mean? We get very little apart from establishing that we've had this war of attrition. There's some time wasting stuff where the doctor and Harry kind of escape and then immediately get recaptured, but basically not very much happens beyond establishing the premise. It's a many 1000 year war. At a distance of its dome cities that you can walk to. Yeah. Then you get Sarah's, she gets caught by the files and enslaved into the brain. Yeah, she almost passes for human. She does. She's almost a normal. almost a normal. How good is that rock, those scenes with a rocket. How good is it? It's Hilary Minter. Is it as the thou guard, who later turns up as inner low, low. Yes, yes. as General von Klinkerhoff. On the same side as Lieutenant Gruber now. who as Guy Sina, who plays the very 1st Kali General, the Boy Generals. That's a that's a Joe Orton play that never made it to the stage did it? Good boy. And how good is Guy Seiner, when it keeps going on about the glory of the Khalib, right? I've got a big thing about concrete, actually. He does kind of dialogue. And what I find so good about his performance is that halfway through the story, he does change his allegiance bit, but that seated early on when he's trying to do the best he can and people keep taking away his equipment. Everyone in this story has their own motivation and their own purpose. quite different in each coast. And it's and it's always believable. Even when it changes. Especially with Nider. There's a lot of frustrated filial, well, daddy love between himself. Shall we get a little bit psych? Now you know how much. You know how much interest Hinchcliffe had in amateur psychology? I've mentioned La Khan before. The greatest Lacan reference in this, and it's, I'm not pulling this out of my lexicon. This is actually Hinchcliffe, I'm quoting, is the delayed shock between the physical death and the actual death itself of the body. And Davros is the sinequanon of this. Davros's real death happened before we even got to the screen. It's a cadaver in a bath chair. And we have the mordant horror of watching an animated corpse. with a frisky right hand. Why the hell, hang on, just a moment. Why the hell did he have an off switch on his bath chair for his life support? That's some horrible kink role-play between him and night. present night, you present? Oh, I'm dying. Stop, stop. You know those 2 got up to Friskies, don't you? But it's like the big... No, no, it's a thing he had a total big total. thing. It was labelled total destruction in case you missed it at home. Yeah, no, it's very nation script. We need a total destruction. But we are getting ahead. That's we are getting towards episode. What would that be? Five. I just love I just love the end of episode one. Sarah sees Davos for the very 1st time. and, you know, I just think the mask and the performance are wonderful. and then, and then... No, that's Liz's real face. That's terrible. But she does present the mask of horror and fear, and her face does. Actually, the horror of that scene is not so much Michael Wisher in the rubber. It's, it's Liz's reaction. And she, and she's out. Yeah, she's our place now. Now we can begin. So it is, it is our episode one, end of episode one, Dalek Reveal but it is so much better than so much better. because the Daleks are hardly in it. They don't get to be the Daleks. We they get called the Daleks, you know, somewhere in episode two I think. But they're not really the Daleks until the end. They're a number 91 omnibus to Clapham, aren't they? Mark 3 travel machine. Not three. Protein. I mean, the reason the Cliffhanger works is the previous 3 Dalek stories, the Cliffhanger has been about the doctor discovering that there's Daleks. Right from the 1st scene, the doctor knows that he's going to encounter the Daleks. What this cliffhanger is is Sarah encountering the Daleks. And it's more effective because Sarah's us. And she's seen them before. And last time, there were lovely, shiny, brilliantined, gorgeous pepper pot, Lewis Marks, 60s Daleks, as well as we were saying in the last podcast. That was the very last true Dalek story. Did you know? It's in Terry Nations actual contract that the Davros had to appear in every subsequent Dalek story. Yes, he insisted on that. I always think it was laziness, but... Did you find that a bit entire set before? Oh, yeah, awful. That's why Eric Saywood and later Ben Aronovic, included Dad Ross because that was one of the stipulations. It's the contract to use the Daleks. I always assumed it was laziness on the BBC part. It's Terry Bloody Nation, dear listener. I mean, there's something to be said for Davros, and we are getting way ahead of ourselves, but because you have to be a good writer, it's a right good Dalek dialogue. Do you know what I mean? And if the Daleks are just going to wander around saying, seek locate, exterminate, then they're really boring and you need a human being to speak on their behalf, hence Stavros. But in fact, you can write Daleks quite well, they don't need to be as boring as that. They weren't in the 60s. They aren't in the new series, you know. So I think that Davros allows the writers to be lazy with the Daleks and it actually has the opposite effect. I want to go back to episode two. Episode 2 begins. There's no reprise. It's just straight into Sarah being smothered and attacked by the mid Coast. We haven't had that for a long time, have we? That's so disturbing. Like, you know, what, you know, she is literally being manhandled. Muto handled. They're people. Yeah, but horrible things could happen. Like it really is quite on another level. Really, it is too. You just, yeah, in these Hessian sacks of male intent pause to reflect. And they, you know, and they fight over, if they're going to kill Sarah. Yeah, it's quite, you know, she is in this jeopardy. Meanwhile, of course, the doctor has been interrogated and he asks for some tea. at a very trying time. But who is Sarah rescued from the mutos bye? So isn't she's wrestling by? Well, she's rescued by Severn 1st and then the False, yeah. And the most amazing thing for anyone who's seen any Doctor Who at all, or at least, you know, 2 Terry Nation stories, in the past 12 years, is that the files are collecting slave workers, aren't they? And so the muters want to kill you. The car leads, you know, firing guns at you. And then the files come along, wasting good ammunition shooting mutos and now they're collecting people to load dystronic explosives into their last great rocket. And so everyone is evil. Is it saying that about World War II then? No, I don't think it is, but I do think it's Terry Nation's instinct, you know, like in Blake 7, he wants everything to be very gun and grim and dark. And Bob Holmes is not the person to get him to kind of mitigate that instinct in any way. But Bob Holmes has a lightness of touch and a great ability at duality. So in the darkest moments, you'll throw in a lovely mom. Like, what, no tea? But the doctor gets to be funny and our heroes get to be good, but basically everyone's awful. I think. Don't you? Do you think that by awful, you mean not redeemable? But horrible people, the whole, everyone's horrible. As ever, except for as a group. Actually, if I end up the only irredeemable characters, a Nider and Davros, as it should be. No, not necessarily. So, I mean, I think that Sevron is a nice person. And then the Kali... that wants to escape with Sarah. The one who's awfully plumb and very RP. Dystronic Toxivia. This is it's so awful, this. He's the Richard Franklin of season 12, isn't he? So the doctor meets him, doesn't he? this one's, yeah, like he meets him. He's the one who takes him to General Raven. Somehow he's captured by the files, but we don't actually see that happen. And then Sarah's leading out leading the breakout because they don't want dystronic toxaemia or whatever and they want to escape. And so they have to... And the rocket square. It will never fly. It will just cause a huge mess before it goes up. But they have to, so they climb up the scaffolding. Which is horrific. So we're in Ealing Studio suddenly and we're on film and the camera is slowly panning up. It's one of the times. I don't think it's even panning. It's like actually going up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the vertiginous scale of that. Wonderful. And then people are being shot and falling off the thing. And there's one utterly, utterly horrifying moment and remind me why Sarah ever gets in the time I've ever had, whether young, that young Khaled officer, Sarah can't get her handhold. the young coloured officer puts his arms around her to support her as she gets up and then he shot dead and he falls off the thing and you see him hit the ground. Yeah, it's all full. It's so awful. She screams, he screams. It's it's horrifying. And then she falls for the cliffhanger, off the... For a freeze frame. First freeze frame, cliffhanger. Awful, just horrendous. Now when do I remembered it as a kid? Yeah, Harold. How good was it? That was going about the reprise to episode 3 how she suddenly falls inside, but she doesn't fall inside. She just falls on this. No, it's a cheap. The platform is hanging outside the scaffold. It is outside. Yeah, she's not even winded though. She's unconscious. That's pretty weird. Come on, they shake her and she's, all right, I'll keep climbing up the thing. She doesn't even say ow. She gets to the top. And then it's like, you know, having to jump over this crevice, you know, to the other side. And then that horrible statistic soldier when they actually do capture the top, then dangles are off the top of the rocket. Like, I mean, I'm having heart palpitations. And it's very terry nation dialogue too. It's that thing, you know, they say that people die before they hit the ground. I don't believe that. Do you? I mean, it's so sadistic. It's awful. Although... There is one nice thing in that it's nice to see the 2nd instance of Elizabeth Slayton's wonderful. can't move. I always love when she does that. Yes, yes. Meanwhile, the doctor meets Ronson, the scientist in white, and Ronson is then convinced by the doctor's use of the word dalek before Daros is uses Dalek, and so then he talks about getting them to the citadel to talk to the leaders. And so in episode three, that happens. And it just sort of, it's just a cut, like, I mean, you see a bit of their journey, but then you don't see the initial meeting or how they get together. They just are. And that's one of the things that I find interesting about this story is that quite often there are these little jumps through it. So they reach Councillor Mogrid. And his associates. They're all pretty like dull and dying with them like their moustaches and their hair and their. is so close to Mogadon, isn't it? But I do like how Raven now has to be nice to the doctor because he's got Mogren on the side. And so Raven's explaining the stuff about the dome and the Raven takes that very well as he takes a lot of things very well, I expect, because he's used to following orders. So just that the doctor is now assumed to be in the pajeminist hierarchy. But also, as I said earlier, he's been having his doubts because his resources keep being taken away and he wants, he is a good soldier in that he wants to do the best he can do. And as you said, I'm expected to fight a war without men or a request. His primary drive is his internal logic, which I guess is what a soldier is supposed to be. Of course, the doctor and Harry have to traverse through Davros experiments. And of course, Harry stumbles across the giant plant. The clam of thrills. With the wonderful fake rock that the doctor picks up to. The 2nd worst aquatic giant monster in exist. Do you know, I learned a new Latin word from this. because I actually didn't know this before. So when Harry gets rescued and he goes, oh, you know, why do I always have to be the one who puts my foot in it in a reference to Arc in Space. Yes. And then he says Magna Polorus. And the doctor says what? And he says Latin and the doctor says, never mind the Latin. Magna pelorus just means giant clam, but I didn't know the word pelorus in Latin before, and it is feminine. It's all grammatically correct. It is. Thank you. But then suddenly we're in the thal dome, aren't we? And it does get rather confusing in the middle of this story. I'm confused where I'm at. They move from speaking to the car-led counsellors to, then they're in the Faldome. And in the Faldome, we get Davros and Nider. Yeah, yeah. Davros and I, and betraying the people by giving the form. Because Mogadon or whatever his name has ordered Dabros to shut down his experiments. So Davros arranges for the dome, which is all where all the civilians and the politicians are because he's under the dome. He ranges for the dome to be destroyed. So that is another quick move, isn't it? And then we get the doctor, you know, breaking into rescue Sarah and everyone from their dystronic nightmare. And he looked, he reminds me of X-Ling in the house. In that suit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's another really effective cliffhanger. He's being electrocuted and bearing his teeth. It's Tommy Payne, which happens quite a lot during the Hinchcliffe era. We see lots of Tom bearing his teeth in game. But it's a magic button. Like, why does that thing have to be electrocuted? Is it Terry Walsh is the guard? Who the guard they're going to do? No, it's not Terry Walsh. Cherry Walsh will appear later. He's not done with yet. But he's just inches towards the button. The special button, but electrocutes and puts you up against like... Yeah, why do they have that button? It is the bottom of the scaffold, which the prisoner is trying to escape up earlier. So maybe they've electrified it. There you go. Recon. Recon is awesome. Episode 4 is the 1st time we have another female character. It's our third woman for the year. Hooray. And who just happens to suddenly appear and talk to the doctor. And you're a great fan of... I think she's really great. she is. Because it's clear that she is a very junior member of either the Senate staff or all the army staff, probably armed forces because she's quite a good fighter later on, but, you know, she's just hanging around in the background while all the sort of politicians and whatnot are talking about the dome and she doesn't say anything until all her bosses leave and she just says to the doctor, look, there's an amnesty. free to go. I think that she's a very sympathetic character from the off. And indeed, because at that point, the doctor and us, the viewer are worried that Sarah and Harry have been killed. She's immediately introduced as a companion substitute asking all the same things as well. Yes, yes, because the doctor thinks they're both dead. Yeah, yeah. sent my friends back into that. The real lack of females really does begin to annoy me and especially in the elite. They're all men. It's ridiculous. In episode five, they find a lovely new outfit for Sarah in a cupboard somewhere with some bombs. Like, who's been wearing that? Garmin has been relaxing in that after work? Not only that, but it's green camouflage. We've already seen that the quarry outside is completely gray. What is the point? It's really interesting. Garmin is in the background for a lot of things up until episode 4 is when he suddenly starts to become involved in the pot. And I thought he was really much more involved throughout the whole thing. No, so it's that. You know, it's the Holmes thing of splitting it into a four-parter and a two-parter, and so it's preparing for parts 5 and 6, which are about the bunker. Of course, and they get to prepare for parts 5 and 6 by going past the giant clamps again. poor Elizabeth Sudden has to act her socks off by shrieking at these things. They don't even move. They're the new slither. They're the new cheaply realised Maya beasts. And then there's a lot of little moment when Harry crawls into that tunnel and the doctor and Sarah have this moment. It's all about, well, what could be at the end of this? And the doctor says, well, better not tell Harry he's gone first. And of course, then she climbs in and there's that reaction, just goes, you know. Okay, I'm reacting people. I'm not expressing it over the podcast. Yeah, and it's just a lovely moment. It's lovely to have all 3 of them together again. after being separated. Yeah. Plot wise, this story is not really weird. analysing because there are so many holes you can fall in the larger neighbours of a giant clam. It's about the characters. It's about the relationship. You know why this story is so strong for me looking back at it because the doctor is almost ineffectual and in the end, you know what does he do? Put it back a 1000 years. Why did he even bother? He's so distant from the centre of the plot. Well, I actually think that's a flaw. You know, episodes one to four, the Khalid War and stuff, and that's pretty much put a stop to by the end of episode four, and episodes 5 and 6 are about what's going on in the bunker. Politics in the bunker. It's all about other Dalek's going to be created or not. It's where the doctor gets to do his one big thing. And that one big thing is blow up the incubator room. And I actually kind of like it because in the Somtarin experiment sort of in the 2nd half of that, the doctor goes straight up to Stire and confronts him. Whereas in this, the doctor and Davros are in the same room in, I think, episode 2 for quite a period of time, but Davros just completely ignores him, it's like, if this is a Nazi parable to an extent. A prisoner of war who's been picked up with no papers is not going to get to meet Adolf Hitler. You know, it's through the doctor's various actions in the plot undermining Dan Ross, making the senators rise up against him trying to broker a piece. It's through those actions that he comes to that Ross's attention. And I actually quite like that slow build. You're waiting for them to meet for the whole story because we keep seeing Davros and Davros' intelligence and cunning then is not defined by his relationship with the doctor. He's allowed to be established as a character who is intelligent or ruthless in his own right, not because he's out to get the doctor, but because he is so single-minded and determined against his own people but working for his own people. And so Todd is this scene in episode 5 that we're about to get to is that their 1st moment together? I think so. When they almost exterminated earlier with the Darling? Yeah, yeah. That's what you were talking about before. Yeah, Davos orders the dialect to exterminate them. And, yeah, yeah. Ronson steps in and stops him. But as you were saying here, we're transitioning to the last 2 part story. And so we've got the classic nighter. Well, you could do a bit of me. sorry Thank you. That's what I wanted to know. Yes. Love, and, of course, they're betrayed. And then, of course, now at the end of this episode, we've got the Dr. Davos, Sarah and Harry are under interrogation. So apparently the Daleks invaded Earth in the year 2000. Do you remember? just after the Olympics. Yes, but he also throws in that line that they're defeated by the Earth's magnetic core. They're not. They're def defeated by lovely Barbara Wright. But also, we now need to remember that. At the end of the story, things are set back by a 1000 years. But that's before things are set back. Maybe we're living in the post-chain, post-time war timeline. Or the timelordy brain is able to twist facts, just a little bit. I just think Terry didn't look it up properly. We haven't got to the virus that decays the... Well, that's where we're up to. that know that eats the insulation on the cables on Mars. That's right. When is that coming? Oh, the war fleet of rockets from the planet Hyper. That's the one. So we're now in episode five, that interrogation scene that you've been talking about, which I just think Michael Wisher and Tom Baker. It's incredible. Is this the defining moment of Doctor Who for the 70s when you get the 2 opposings? Davros's logic. At least it's organic and internal. We may find it flawed. The Daleks are ultimately a force for good because all opposition will be wiped out and there will finally be peace. Well, the difference causes dissension, different causes. Difference and variation. Whereas the doctor says difference, et la joie, de viv, differences the spice of life, and joyousness. So he's actually the queer friendly character in this, whereas Davros is the government says you can't have marriage equality despite his friends. or indeed because of them. I mean, it is an entire society of men who all live underground you know, and to march up and down in... I'm not drawing anything from that. Harry gets to get in one of those black... Yeah, he looks great. Amazing. Back to the 60s movie and... Burning Crippers. like, would you care to it? No, Nathan, does Terry Walsh turn up with garment in this episode? Yes. So Terry Walsh turns up. He's a car-led scientist, and that's when you find some bombs in a cupboard and so on with hilarious results. cute togies. Yes, a new clothes, which is just so convenient. This helps continuity for the very next story. When did they have a wash? That's what worries me. And it was terry, of course. Sorry, Terry. Terry's playing everyone, even in Marta's character here. No, because Harry hasn't changed clothes since the end of Robots. Yes, right. His clothes have frequently seen his muddy, you know, when he's on location. And so he must stink like a corpse. It's outrageous. We can't get into the Tartars. Especially considering as according to the later BBC books, he gets turned into a werewolf between 2 of these stories as well. That never happened. We're heading towards the conclusion but we're not there yet. The time ring, of course, is re-mentioned here. I love the time ring. I like the whole concept of the time ring throughout these stories. I wanted a time ring when I was there. Yeah, but it's a piece of lovely 70s copper art. to make it school. Oh, you just go anywhere, really? You didn't need a TARDIS. You could just use the time ring. But of course, the end of the episode is, of course, the doctor in the incubator room trying to do some damage. And of course, he comes out with the crowded mutant strangling him. So can we talk about this because this is iconic, isn't it? I think it's a reference to the viewers and listeners society. I think it's meant to be Mary White. His speech is in episode six. It's in episode six. Yeah. So he's in there to blow up the Daleks and his speech in episode six. That's just too creepy. The speech makes it clear that he'll destroy the Daleks forever. That what's at stake. Can I destroy the Daleks? Well, that's what that's what that's what the doctor said. That's what he wanted to destroy. The big moral issue that he raises is a kind of utilitarian one. So the idea is that an action is good depending on how good its consequences are. And because the consequences are in some way incalculable. You know what I mean? He can't tell what the consequences are going to be. He can't bring himself to do it. And so it's eventually saved from having to make that decision. But there is a big giant cheek, of course, which is that he just goes back and does it anyway later. Yes. It doesn't destroy the Daleks this time for no readily apparent reason, and he doesn't have to join the wires together himself anyway, because a handy Dale comes and does it for him. Do you know what I mean? So that is rightly praised, I think, that scene. It is good and Tom's great in it, don't you? Yes, definitely. It makes the decision something really concrete, you know, by having the 2 bits of wine that the doctor has to join together giving him a positive visible action that you can see him tending towards doing. you know, is perfect, but it doesn't really quite work and it is a little bit of a cheat. And it's Sarah is the one who is saying, no, you have to do it. And interestingly, she says, you have to complete your mission for the timelords. At 1st she appeals with, if you like, the humanitarian side of it like the Daleks are evil. There are no redeeming features about them. What have you? But I find it very interesting that she views it as a matter of just following orders. Well, don't you think that by then she's just throwing anything at him, do you know what I mean, to get him to do it? Like, she just wants to get him to do it. Yeah. home. She's had such a torrid timing the last few weeks. She just wants to kill a race. a little bit better. I think we've all had those like that. I think, though, we've also glossed over the fact that that speech is a response to the discussion earlier. Imagine if you had created in your lab in your laboratory, a virus so contagious in it, an infectious that it killed immediately on contact, would you allow its use? Now there, the doctor is likening the daleks to the virus. But when he has the power to kill them all, he is the virus. Well, he likens them to a child, in fact, when he... Could you kill that child? as well. You know that speech is so much engrained in fan lore and fan thinking that it was written into a backbencher under Tony Blair's speech in the 90s? Yeah, I think I remember hearing about it that often announced it in Parliament. So we're rapidly heading towards the conclusion of the story and Space Betan is back and she's ready to blow up the corridor, so the doctor cannot get out of the bunker. See, I think she's like Jenny from Dalek Invasion of Earth, which is why I hate Earth. So she's the mean one who won't allow us just 15 minutes to get you know, our friends out of the bunker because she's so crazy. But she's quite, they're not quite good technology because they've got that special scanner that can penetrate through and see what's going on in that. give you a monochrome video signal. very crisp. It's a bit crummy, isn't it? Because they kind of realise that our heroes need to know that Davros and Nada have been killed and that the Daleks have taken over, but none of them can possibly be present in that scene because they would all be killed. So they just watch it all on various videos, which is really awful. And then the other really terrible terri nation plot device is when Tom drops the fluid link during the scuffle. And the time ring... Oh, that was... during the scuffle and then they can't escape from the room. So it's sort of delaying tactics and sort of slightly ham-fisted plotting, I think. So you're saying that despite Terry Nation slash Robert Holmes writing this story, those Terry Nations. is still underlying. There's still plenty of terry nationness to it. And, you know, you, I used to think this story was really overrated. I don't now. you know, having watched it in context. I think it's amazing and it's full of just incredible performances Dudley Simpsons on fire for it. You know, just everything comes together. And my objections to it would be that, I think it's probably too horrible for Doctor Who, but that's not a massive objection. But it is still tarry nation with all the attendant problems that entails. I like a lot of the minor performances in this by the supporting characters. Severon in particular, who Sarah thanks at one point after they escape and then he's back at the end. He's just there, you know, and I think he does a really good job. Garmin, I'm not that impressed with. I think his lisp in particular comes through and I actually think he's playing. isn't he? With that hair. Anyway, I just don't I think he's actually pretty... Rod thinks he's pretty. I think he didn't say that. He's very average and he's like an acting ability will a peer. I'm sorry I actually like going as the human face. He is kind of the side. He is one side of that conflict in those last 2 episodes. He is important to the story. He's a little bit famous 5 though, let's be honest. Yeah. And of course, Sam... So that must have a choice. You say that? like it's a bad thing. And then, of course, at the end, we've got time ring and out and we get to see them spinning on the floor of the studio, is it? The doctor's line there too. I know out of their evil must come something good, like the last great time war in which a whole bunch of people, including everyone on Galafra. Actually, that is pretty good, isn't it? Somewhere in he said anything. Somewhere in his youth or childhood, he must have done something good. But it is, again, in my burglar. It's the dance at the end of 7th seal, and I love it for that. I think it's pretty much flawless. I don't care that there are plot holes you can dive for starship through. great. Look, I found it really enjoyable. I think it's excellent It's not going to be my top favourite thing ever. But it's certainly, you know, of a very high quality. Yeah. Do you know Michael Wisher wasn't the 1st casting of Devros. He's just around because he'd just done the previous story and he'd done Dalek voices. I would love to know who was the 1st casting of Davros. Unless City Kendall. Thank you. It's all I needed to know. It's not in the, it's not in the show notes. And I, it's so far, and I have researched it. No one can tell who was actually 1st cast. Just before we finish up. I foreshadowed that I had a Liz Sladen story. If you watch the making of documentary on the Genesis of the Daleks DVD, it features an interview with Visbeth Sladen. Oh, yeah. And the interview was conducted by Ian Levine, who produced the whole documentary. It's very well done. But he includes a blooper at the end, which makes fun of him a little, because you hear Ian Levine's voice off camera asking, Liz can I just ask you, why is it that halfway through this horrible story about war where you're being hunted down? Do you find another outfit? And Liz Leyden replies with something... reminds something I'm going off. Oh, Ian, you try running about in the same clothes for 4 weeks darling. With a darling up your ass. This is the actual word she uses. Well, that's all the extended time we have for Genesis of the Daleks, but the Nerva Beacon Story Arc ends next week. Sorry, did I say beacon? I don't know why I could have said beacon. So we head back to the space station for Revenge of the Sidemen. Until then, do please find us at flightthroughentirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes. You expected me to say something there, but I'm not going to because I think you'll ride a robot now. Please review. We won't shut up until you do. Or FTE podcast on Twitter. Until then, thank you very much for listening and good night. Good night. Good everything. I'm exhausted. Explains your costume change. That was Flight through Entirety with Todd BLB, Nathan Boffinley Brendan Jones and Richard Stone. This episode, Bring Back the Dravens, was recorded on Sunday, June 14th. The next episode will be released on the 19th of July. If you had a potentially spoilerific discussion during your podcast recording, Would you allow its use? Well, I have. So if you want to avoid spoilers, press stop now. Yeah, and also I gather I know nothing else about this, but apparently Peter Capaldi's doctor will be faced with that decision at some point this year. He'll have to decide whether to wear that horrible black and white polka dotted shirt from Kill the Moon again. correct. Or just take Jenna Coleman between his thumb and forefinger. No, no, squish her hands. Apparently, there is a storyline this year based around. If you were told a child was completely equal. Could you then kill that child? Oh, so Stephen Moffatt. I'm certain I reckon I could. What do you reckon? Can we just have a moment? I just want to put money down for the dear listener. You can put this at the end if you like. But I reckon that the companion for Missy will be another version of... Sarah Jane Smith. No, I'd like to say that. Well, I do think that the casting of Jenna Coleman, she's meant to be the Sarah Jane for the 21st century, and not just in looks, but in background, and okay, she's a school teacher and a nanny, but she's meant to be Sarah Jane. Oh, yeah, yeah, very much so. No, I think I think that we'll get another we'll get another Clara in one of her other incarnations through the time stream.