A Sociopathic Child

[00:28]

Hello, and welcome back to the not quite new anymore, but still weekly flight through Entirety, the only Doctor Who podcast to discover the glitter gun before adequate hair care.

I'm Brendan.

I'm Nathan.

I'm a nose cone full of glitter dust.

And can anyone hear me?

You're Michael Wisher.

Oh, we're back on Space Station Nerva, now Nerva Beacon, and also coming back after a six-year absence from the show are the Cybermen.

Awesome revenge.

I have no idea what that voice was.

Who's doing this one?

This is my one.

Like spoiler alert, I think this is the weakest story of the season, and that's a season that contains robot.

So, um, but it's not all bad, and I do think it has some things carry blind.

[01:36]

Yes, exactly.

So Carrie Blighton for a start. the music is absolutely superb.

Yes, the last music ever from Kerry Blyton and the 1st Doctor Who music from Peter Howell. who augments his score later on because I don't know how, but someone listened to Kerry Blyton score and thought, isn't this a bit similar to that thing with the Daleks in the quarry last year?

in the closing one or 2 episodes of this?

You hear some electronic augmentation?

And that was done by Peter Howell.

Who does the music to Zigons thing?

Jeffrey Bergen.

Okay.

He's my all-time favourite.

He's really good.

Willie lady did bride said revisit.

But he also did seats of dirt.

Yes, because Douglas Canfield still hated Dudley.

But we're getting ahead of himself.

Yeah, sorry.

So the horror season 12 continues.

I said before that one of the things that struck me this time rounds through season 12 is not only that it's really great, but that it's really, really horrible.

And why is Sarah going to get in the TARDIS again, ever, ever.

So that starts straight away, doesn't it?

[02:37]

We arrive on, is it Nova Beacon or Space Station Nova?

It's now Nova Beacon.

And Sarah was prescient in the last story when she said, but this isn't the beacon.

Oh, okay, but it wasn't the beacon.

Because, of course, they'd recorded this story before Genesis of the Daleks.

So the recording order for this season went robot, the Sontaran experiment, Arc in Space, Revenge of the Cyberman, Genesis of the Daleks, Terror of the Zygons.

Sandov has something about how this would have been better as a lead up to Genesis of the Daleks because it's such a bad anticlimax after Genesis of the Daleks. you know, Genesis Vidalaxy is this sort of virtuoso reinvention of the series, Greatest Monster, whereas this is just like a tiresome retread of the series, most disappointing Dalek substitute.

Hands on hips, though.

It's Christopher Robbie.

That's the carcass.

And it's the 1st time we can easily understand what the cybermen are saying.

Yeah, it's the 1st time they don't digitally augment or do them off camera.

They're actually the actors in the suit.

Yeah, yeah.

[03:37]

They did have a little bit of augmentation on them.

Just they flatten the voices out slightly.

And the voice is terrible.

Oh, but they're so bad.

The voices.

And I especially like that they're slightly they're slightly mid-Atlantic in their in their in their delivery.

Christopher Robbie has a weird accent.

Everyone else is a posh English cyberman.

Can I just say that I actually really like this story?

I think it's very underrated.

I do agree that the cybermen are tired and it's actually quite good that they're not actually in the 1st couple of episodes.

I love the vogans to death.

The whole inter politics between the different long-haired and shorthaired movies.

No, I love it.

I love it.

I just love it as a kid and I love it now.

I love all the tunnel work with Sarah and Harry and those little trollies going along. not have thick ankles.

Solid goals, stethoscope.

That's such a funny line.

I just enjoy that. aspect of this entire story. and yes, it is flawed and there are, there are problems with the cybermen who are really not, but there's things ever.

[04:40]

I don't mind Christopher Robbie.

Have we had wetsuit fetishistic spots yet?

Christopher Robbie's bum with his hands on his tips from the back. pretty good.

I agree.

I just remember that from the what you're saying.

But, you know, when the Simon do give the doctor that his little shoulder massage. rope does that to the doctor.

Zigo.

There has been a theory advance that Time Lord Shoulders are actually particularly vulnerable.

The thing is, Tom's reaction is priceless.

The look on his face is, are you really doing okay?

Is that what we're doing?

doing the shoulder master, are we, Christopher?

He doesn't look threatened or in pained at all.

He's just like, 0 God, can we get through this scene?

Can I go back to the builder's yard actually?

We don't know.

We don't know the internal physiognomy, the neurological.

That could be that could be the time-lord sensitive spot.

Backbone.

Back to what you're saying.

Paul Sarah Jane Smith, who gets attacked by the cyber mat and has to defend it off with him.

[05:42]

Is that the worst thing that's happened to Sarah yet?

Oh, no, she's been tortured by Dr. Joseph Mengler and nearly dropped off a... not bitten by a huge fallicky bitey thing.

It's pretty awful.

But her and the guy who drives before her, just that breathing that...

I actually think the brilliant thing.

Is it CSO?

Like, it's front tackle.

Is it really front axle?

back to the moon base, actually.

The same thing they were using.

It says like the Lao.

Wow, and indeed the Green Death.

It looks so good.

Yeah, yeah. it looks it looks great.

So you just have a moment, though. a question for the audience.

If you're able to get the virus out of Sarah by baming down, why don't they just do it with Noah?

Well...

That's big threat gone.

And why aren't they all naked when they beam down?

Yeah.

Well...

Well, no, they are wearing organic fibres.

So why when the cybermen beamed down?

Are they just not blobby messes of juba?

No, because they're just robots actually.

Yeah, no, it makes no sense.

So let's just talk about the plague.

[06:43]

We arrived.

There's been a giant plague.

Sarah and Harry have to wander. have to wander through a big corridor full of corpses.

Like a switch off.

Obviously not, which are obviously mannequins.

Did you notice?

They look really bad. the aftermath of the are you being served off as party?

That's right.

Did you notice that it's also everyone else?

There are occasional twitching corpses, and it's everyone else from the series.

It just lies on the ground.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. everyone gets have a go.

Yeah.

And again, that's the horror of season 12.

Do you know what I mean?

Like it's just a little bit too awful for the kiddies at home.

You know, then Sarah gets the plague.

No, Warner gets the plague.

Do you know what I mean?

And then Sarah gets the plague.

And for some reason, Sarah's sitting watching the world's most boring television program.

And leafing through a magazine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, it's like the reminder room.

Do you know what she's reading?

It's a science fiction mag.

[07:43]

Michael Morecock is in it praising the new series of Doctor Who.

Is she really?

Oh, yeah, yeah.

It's an in joke.

Oh, that's pretty good.

Too early for DWB, I guess.

Roland Lee Hunt and William Marlowe.

One of the is Commander Radner?

Yes, well, he was Commander Radner, and now he's...

Stevenson, I want to say, yeah.

I like them.

I do too.

They're proper actors, they underplay.

I especially like the 2 I see.

Leicester, Leicesterson.

Leicesterson, who was...

He was previously maleer in line of evil.

And he plays himself...

Yes, yes.

I was going to say, bomb, that's going to blow up half of this asteroid, and then it just sort of blows up a cat.

No, no, they still explain it.

Yeah, the buckle is the buckle on the front.

So the bomb itself.

Otherwise, it'd just be silly, wouldn't it?

So that's for plague, and it's cured by waving our hands and a bit of rollback and mix and suddenly we're in Wookiehole and we're cured.

[08:46]

And the cure for it is then stolen by Star Trek, the next generation, unnatural selection.

Gosh, that's a terrible episode.

Let us never speak of it again.

Yeah, even pure age.

Moving on.

But, you know, it's it's an episode that highlights Diana Maldor, and I can forgive it anything.

Dr. Pulaski, we can physically separate this one and all.

Yeah, we can physically separate you from the latex that appears to be making up your outer epidermal layer by just putting you through the transporter.

She plays the satin 5 thrusters in this.

No, in fact, there are no women in this apart from Sarah.

So, it's...

Oh, I don't know.

You can't tell me.

What about some other focus?

Well, in fact, let's move on.

Yes, please.

So the 2nd thing, and the thing that you identified Todd, is one of your favourite things about the story is the planet Vogga, and that's, you know, so we've got the human beings, we've got Vogga, and we'll come to the side.

I want to have a party on Planet Vogel.

What a disco.

So I think that...

Todd and I are not going to agree about the planet Voga because I just think it's terrible.

[09:50]

One of the things is we have an utterly spectacular cast playing the Vogans.

So the three, there's someone called Shepherd, who I can't remember who that is.

Brian Grellis?

Yeah, I know.

I looked him up and he's beating something before, but it wasn't very interesting.

So we get Tyrum, who is played by Kevin Stone, who is just, you know, superb in his previous performances in Doctor Who.

And he's been away as long as the Spider-Man.

Yeah, well, the invasion was the last.

Was that nice?

He's great in this.

Yeah, but he's covered in a big latex mask.

So that's what makes it better.

And then you get David Collings, who is just tremendous and he will come back and be pool in Robots of Death and silver in Sapphire.

And Monkey, the voice of Monkey.

The voice of monkey.

And with Miriam Margolis.

And then you get Michael... with a tissue.

And Michael Wishes already had a bit of a go at being every voice on the radio that Warner listens to in episode one.

But now he's here as a character by himself.

[10:51]

And so we actually have 2 factions and this is the thing that I think is really a bit tired.

So you have the conservatives and they all wear dresses and have long girly hair and they're led by time.

The Whigs, aren't they?

If they are the Tories, yeah.

No, the wig's brilliant.

So they're conservative and they're isolationist and they don't want, they don't want to attract the side with attention.

We'll have no trouble.

And so that's it.

And then you've got Vorus.

And I actually think Vorus is quite good and he has a pretty good mask.

I'm very sympathetic to Boris.

Boris is actually the only one that leads the narrative.

This is what I want to say.

He is the character who wants to change the economic system, make life better for his people.

Have a few, you know what I mean?

That's right.

And he, because he bucks the system and because he, you know, refuses to do whatever the conservative time says, he's the villain, you know what I mean?

And so he's the bad guy.

We all sort of anger at him, you know, he has to be killed at the end and so on.

[11:51]

And I think it's really reactionary.

Like I think that the politics are reactionary.

And I just think those endless scenes of the men in the dresses and like long-haired men in dresses and bold men in trousers, firing guns at each other across the studio are really very boring.

Oh, those little sequences outside the chambers, yes.

Yeah, look, I mean, it's Wookiehole is a great location and all of the stuff shot in the caverns is wonderful and they have speedboats and all sorts of things.

It's really terrific.

That is great, but I don't like the Vogans.

I just don't think they're all that new or interesting.

I think the big problem there is the masks being so immutable.

David Collings one fits quite well, but nobody else's mask fits quite well and it looks like a mask.

It's not like the draconians where you still had so much expression in the faces.

But one character whom we haven't mentioned yet is Kelman.

The civilian, the civilian geologist slash spy slash James Bond memorabilia collector.

[12:53]

Slash mass murder.

So he's killing off everybody in the beacon for Boris.

And he's also working for the Sidemen, but he's working for Vorus to lure the Simon this and it's confusing.

Okay.

And they cyberman?

No, no. let me try and work it out.

The cybermen want him to kill all of the people on the station except for 3 people, so those 3 people can carry their bombs down to Voga.

But what he's really doing is luring the cybermen on the station in order to blow them up in order to blow them up with the sky striker.

I think he's playing each off for his own benefit.

Well, no, no, because the doctor makes it very clear that the sidemen have nothing to offer him.

And so the doctor begins to suspect that Kelman, it doesn't really go anywhere, but he twice asks, you know, when he gets hold of the bomb in episode 3 and he's threatening to blow the sidemen up.

He wants to know what's in it for Calman, what can the sidemen possibly offer Calman?

And it's obvious if there's a planet of gold, what he's really doing it for, is the gold.

So, so he is not a very principal character because he kills a whole bunch of people, 48 people.

[13:59]

But it's not Vorus's fault.

Do you know what I mean?

Vorus isn't paying him to pay him to kill everyone.

He's paying him to get the sidemen on board.

I think that's what's happening.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Does Boris do anything in this that we would actually find objectionable?

He, like, he doesn't give the doctor his full 5 minutes or something at the end, you know, like death in other words, yeah.

But I don't know why he's the villain. you know what I mean?

It's a very good point.

I think a lot of these problems boil down to Jerry Davis being a very old-fashioned writer because they had terrible problems with the script behind the scenes.

This is the casino in space story.

Yeah, it was going to be a casino in space and then I don't think it was Hinchley for Holmes.

I think it was someone higher up at the BBC objected to the idea of gambling appearing on the program, and that would, again, rear its head.

That would again rear its head about 5 years later, it was City of Death, which was originally to be based around the casino as well.

A gambling time, it was going to be called.

That's right, too.

Bob Holmes and Phil Peterson, I've had both said later on that Jerry Davis's characterisation was very thin on the ground and they did also petition him to have more female characters, but the relationship became so not exactly adversarial or acrimonious, but difficult that eventually they just kind of went, okay, this is what he's given us.

[15:20]

We don't have much time, we'll rework it as much as we humanly can in the time period we've got.

Because remember, even though this is the last story of the broadcast season, It was actually the 3rd story in the production block.

They'd already had massive problems with the arc in space, which Robert Holmes had to rewrite from the start.

This is on rewrite. a softer rewrite.

This is a softer rewrite.

It essentially follows Jerry Davis's plot.

The words, if you like, are not necessarily his.

They've tried to flesh out the plot a bit more.

And I think that's possibly why the 2 factions of vogans don't really work because it's like, let's introduce enough detail to make it clear that there are 2 factions.

Let's not look too closely at the motivations in case it all falls down.

Yeah, okay, well, I mean, there are your points.

I still love them.

I love their use of the time. symbol.

Kelman, of course, doesn't get to go on location, so he gets blown up at the end of episode three.

[16:23]

I like to think he escaped in Thunderbird 2.

He's the voice of the 2nd Virgil from Thunderbird.

Oh, I see.

The doctor gets to scream out, Harry, Sullivan isn't... when he tries to open up the bomb and clasp.

No, so can we talk about that?

They get these bombs strapped to them, and they have to walk down to the centre of Volga.

So how does gravity work on Voger, exactly.

Do you know what I mean?

Like, we see a cross-section of Voga.

They're walking down into the middle of the asteroid.

Why aren't they falling down a shaft into the middle of the asteroid?

Do you know what I mean?

With the air coming?

Yeah, no, it's crazy.

Crazy, crazy, crazy.

I hate it when Doctor Who isn't scientifically accurate.

It's one of the worst...

You know, they did research that Hinchcliffe actually commissioned someone...

Hinchcliffe actually commissioned someone to go and...

To go to an asteroid to go and check on how compatible life on an asteroid would be for human life.

I think they probably did.

When did you get the fire that away?

Who knows?

Look, it's in the nose.

[17:24]

This is just one of those stories that I'd enjoy watching and I don't think about all of those scientifically.

They wash over me.

It could be a Trouton story, couldn't it, Tom?

It is a bit wheeling spacish, actually, isn't it?

you know, it's it's good fun.

I still think it's under undervalued.

I've always enjoyed our ropey part.

It is very strange in the context of the season, though, isn't it?

Where everything is really grim and gruesome and kind of horrifying, and this is initially looking like it's going to be that, but it just ends up being a sort of fairly crappy 60 star runaround.

Do you know what I mean?

Not that there's anything wrong with it.

No, no, no.

It's a whole 60s full of crappy 60s style run around.

And for about 20 minutes in the middle, you have this very Leslie Nielsen police squad naked gun style shootout to members of the 2 factions hiding behind these stalagmites about 5 feet away from each other. just popping up on a pew, pew, pew, pew.

[18:24]

And people then run between...

It's so it, but it's endearingly ridiculous.

The ending's very rushed.

I mean, Simon are pretty sad, really, that they don't detect that it's a huge missile on its way to destroy their spaceship until the very last moment.

And they just sort of sit there.

I mean, if this is the iconic return of a really crappy second rate monster that no one liked very much after 6 whole years, you know, for the 1st time in such a long time.

Like when we 1st see them, they're just sitting in chairs.

Like we get a shot of Simon just sitting in chairs and then we go somewhere else.

Do you know what I mean?

And we already knew that...

But we already knew they were going to be in the story.

We didn't need a sort of shot of Simon to show that they were sort of going to be there.

And then, you know, there's lots of sort of stupid cyber plans, which is kind of what we want.

And then they're kind of killed unceremoniously as well.

You know, like it is a bit of a poor outing for them.

It also doesn't help that when the doctor berates them.

[19:27]

You've got no home planet.

No influence nothing.

You're just a pathetic bunch of tin soldiers skulking about the galaxy in ancient ancient spaceship.

There's no comeback to that.

No.

There's no then show of force.

It's all right for the doctor to belittle a monster because usually what will then happen is the monster will prove their strength and the audience will go, oh yeah, okay, we even though the doctor is being jokey.

We can be terrified of them here.

But here the cyberman just goes, I'm going to give you another Swedish massage.

When they come back again, do you know what I mean after another six, 7 years?

They actually do have a comeback.

You know, the doctor talks to them and then they threaten to kill Teakon. you know what I mean?

But here also they're just robots.

So the idea that they're sort of zombies or that they can convert us or that they're our dark sides or something like that.

They've got a big pile of spare parts in their spaceship from which they can build a new cyber army.

They don't need to assimilate people or whatever it is they do.

They don't need to do cyber conversion or anything like that.

[20:27]

And I just think that makes them very boring.

Yeah.

Yeah, very generic.

Do you know what I mean?

They could be any anything.

Which is a brand cyberman.

I do think that Christopher Robbie's performance is very good.

I do like it.

Nathan is stony faced at this point.

I just remember a cottage undersiege article, which was like the 1st five.

Five worst ever performances in Doctor Who.

I don't think it is.

I think Jenny Laird came within there, obviously.

But Christopher Robbie was one of them, because he struts about with his hands on his hips and stuff, and he's supposed to be.

In his shiny wetsuit.

An emotionless robot.

Shiny wetsuit.

Well, you know, it is called Revenge of the Cyberman, so you can hardly blame it for that.

I don't think it's a terrible performance.

Yeah, they don't have emotions, do they?

So it should just be called reaction of the stuff.

David Banks in his wonderful book, Doctor Who.

Doctor Who, Cyberman.

Oh, God, and we haven't even got to how much I hate David Bates and Cyberleader.

Moving on.

I'll agree.

He gives a great account of why at times Cybermen might show emotion.

[21:31]

They're really fed up and they're really tired and they just need a hug.

No, it's like, it's like, you know what?

An actor whose character's spouse has died will act with grief, but the actor themselves in their real life will not feel that because it's acting.

Cybermen have no emotions, but they constantly recognise that humans have emotions.

So they learn to emulate emotions to get a reaction.

They learn to emulate confidence and arrogance and superiority. child.

Children with sociopaic tendency.

No, no, they actually do.

They will watch their parents.

I have a friend whose whose child has, is actually, is sociopathic by her doctor and as a very young girl, she would sit and watch the television when everyone else is watching Doctor Who.

The child would be watching her mother and her brother's emotional reactions to it, to learn how to emulate it because she didn't have the responses of fear or love.

[22:31]

They walk amongst us.

So yeah, you know, he works.

The cyber leader saying things like, it will be a fantastic spectacle.

Unfortunately, you will not be alive to see it.

If only you had to do a voice treatment for that sound.

But no, you see, that saying that is about instilling terror because he's picked up on the fact that the doctor is sarcastic.

So he decides I'm going, you know, the doctor is being sarcastic to intimidate me.

Of course, I am not intimidated.

I am a cyberman, but the human female will be intimidated by my sarcasm and by my flippancy.

I liked it better when sidemen went on about people's stupider earth brains.

That was much better.

I love the way the doctor and Sarah twist around to watch though they're coming up.

It's very marks proper.

And so Voger coming up on the screen.

Like suddenly Voga is like a toilet roll with craters on it.

They're just revolving around and around in a kind of horrible precursor to the season 4 Blake 7, I think.

[23:37]

Oh, there's nothing wrong with Ash. like it.

It's, it's...

Brendan, for the listener at home. just did a very convincing Travis with a dessert spoon.

They've died.

I was being Madame Cavarian.

So, but that isn't the worst special effect, of course.

The worst special effect is suddenly that Vorus's sky striker has the words United States written on the side because it's just stock footage of the Saturn 5 rocket going up as usual.

We can't win a morgue.

No, I mean, look.

I mean, if we were watching, if we were worried about ropey special effects.

We wouldn't have done 31 episodes of a podcast about Doctor Who, to be honest.

And it's nice to have the TARDIS back at the end of that.

Episode, the brigadiers called him back.

I love blue.

Sarah's reaction.

It turned out it was blue.

I love Sarah's reaction to it because it's the 2nd that the problem gets resolved.

You know, the 2nd that there's no goodbyes or anything, Harry turns up in the trans mat, the TARDIS turns up just instantly that second.

[24:40]

The doctor says we'll go, Sarah's kind of rolling her eyes and going, oh, it's all go, isn't it?

And she gets, then she learns that the brigadier has a crisis and she's, she looks horribly pained, you know.

And there's a sense in which that's kind of nice.

But it does kind of undersell the level of horror that she's experienced over the last, you know, 16 weeks or however long it's been.

Well, I just think, as I was saying a few episodes ago, it underlines her her resilience and her indomitable nature.

When the doctor talks about humanity in Arkin Space and how wonderful and inventive and indomitable they are, it's then up to Harry and Sarah to be the proof of that over the season because in Santaran experiment, we don't have earthborn humans or humans from even remotely in our era.

In Genesis of Dialects, we only have Sarah and Harry as humans.

And again, in revenge of the cybermen, they're our modern day humans to relate to this strange alien world.

[25:44]

So their reactions to the horrible things they've been through, not allowing it to make them cynical and horrible themselves, but coming out of it with this view of, you know, we've taken this on, we can do anything, including we can afford to make light of the fact that we're heading into another emergency.

It goes back to that speech and it proves exactly what the doctor was saying.

I just think it makes the characters kind of, it diminishes the characters as real people.

You know, Doctor Who is a show that doesn't show long-term consequences.

Do you know what I mean?

We're off on another jolly adventure, and it's been like that forever, and it shouldn't become a show where we spend a lot of time agonising about the, you know, terrible things that have happened to us.

You know, we should feel like the characters are having fun.

I just felt that this year Sarah has not been having fun.

And I love season 12.

I've really, really enjoyed this and I think, you know, it represents a sudden uptick in quality in the whole show, you know, it's Bob Holmes, it's Tom Baker.

[26:46]

It's my absolute Christmas present as far as Doctor Who's concerned, but I just do have this niggling feeling that there is something wrong with it.

I've thoroughly enjoyed watching this season.

Tom is just amazing and Ian Martin, Elizabeth Slade, and I, Go along with him.

They're just a wonderful team and, you know, it's reflected in the show's ratings.

There's only 2 episodes in this season that place outside the top 30 shows in Britain, never before, and it's going to continue up and up over the next 2 years.

And let's remember that's not just because there's a new doctor because this has happened 3 times before.

Well, this is the 3rd, but it's a combination of the doctor and the writing and just the chemistry.

And what's going on?

And I think Liz and Ian.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's time for our Jenny Laird awards for most puzzling creative choice.

I've intimated this very episode.

My Jenny Led Award would go to Roger Murray Leach or possibly Prue Handley or Cecil Hay Arthur.

[27:51]

I'm not sure exactly who was responsible, but they are respectively the designer, costume designer, and makeup designer of Revenge of the Cybermen.

And it's simply because after such a strong year of Doctor Who and such strong monsters, and I even really like this redesign of the cybermen.

I'm just a bit baffled by the poor quality of the vogan masks.

Yeah, Shepard just looks like he looks crazy.

He looks like he's got a bucket on his head.

Yeah, yeah.

It's absurd.

That being said, Roger Murray Leach's work on Arc in Space and Santari. is a designer.

I just want to be the voice for all designers who have been let down by production.

It's, you know, all we do is the drawings.

That's true.

That's true.

Okay, in that case, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, whoever made the masks for the Vogans.

I don't know if there wasn't time to get them measured properly or what.

Of course, you know, Davros's mask looks better.

Davros's mask was made a month after this.

So who knows?

I have 3 candidates.

[28:52]

Do you know what I mean?

Because I thought I would take a leaf out of Todd's book and just every 2nd thing that appeared on screen.

I go, Jenny Laird, Jenny for you.

But I do think...

I've been very sorry about that.

It must be something I like about this season.

But it is something that I've mentioned before, and it was a surprise to me because it had never occurred to me before watching it this time, and it is Noah.

It's Kenton's performance as Noah in Ark in space.

I think it's badly pitched, and I think it risks ruining the story, and it's just a testament to how strong everything else is that means that it doesn't.

I mean, the other thing is something that I've gone on and on about, and it is the 3 speaking roles for women in an entire season, apart from Liz Sladen.

Doctor Who didn't used to do that.

Do you know what I mean?

Even in the Pertry era, there would normally be the other woman character.

This is worse, I think, for representations of women than we've had for a while.

[29:55]

And unfortunately, we're gonna, we're going to see that in a few stories over the next couple of years as well.

Yeah.

Yeah, terrible.

There is one story coming up where there's no women on screen.

Yeah.

So it is going to going to Kenton Moore.

So he should expect that in the post.

It's terribly hot.

You're very right about Kenton Moore.

I have to also nominate the giant clans from Genesis of the Dialect.

So we call them Magna Pylorus.

Whatever.

My award is going to Sarah's hat from Robot.

I can't stand it.

Do you know where it's coming from?

I don't care.

Have another look at the Robert Redford. and Mia Farrer version of Gatsby had been out the year before and the Gatsby look was very much in vogue.

Daniel Milker, we could ask for more references, but it's actually a reference to me.

Oh, look and the whole, the colottes and the bill bottoms.

I think she looks gorgeous in that.

I have to reply.

[30:56]

Yeah, I love that little...

I didn't find the rest of the outfit. just the hat.

I have to say that I look like around pumpkin.

I have to say, though, once you've seen carriage on in a flapping white fedora running across a weir.

You've reached peak hat as far as I'm concerned.

Richard, what's your journey there?

It's a difficult one because there are actually so few, but my Jenny Laird award has this year has to go to drum roll, Terrence Dix.

And it does, and I thought about this long and hard, and I just thought to continue the metaphor.

I've just thought Mr. Dix has kind of reached his his zenith and had his chance at his swan song and shown us all the best stuff he could do, and it just isn't good enough.

And I love him as an author.

He got me reading as a small child.

I was reading before, but I read every damn target novel that came out.

But you look at robot and look at the structure and it's actually the script.

Okay, you can talk about the way characters all go, it's Mr. Dix in that, really.

And just comparing that to the rest of the season, the contrast is too high.

[31:58]

Pics of the week, gentlemen.

And I think Todd and Nathan, you've got one you'd like to discuss.

No, no, we have one.

We do have a pick of the week. and Richard, I think, will be quite familiar with this.

In, I think 1978, they released Genesis of the Daleks is an LP, like as an actual album.

And then they rereleased it in the 80s as a cassette, and it's now available from Audible as an audiobook, and it's a 60 minute version of Genesis.

Do you remember this?

The clams cut out. with the clams cut out.

It's got Tom Baker's linking narration and all of that sort of thing.

I have it somewhere, yeah.

Every time I watch Genesis of the Daleks, I can remember which bits were on that audio, because I just listened to it over and over again, like I had the record and then I think I recorded it onto, you know, a wax cylinder or whatever we had in those days, and then, you know, to a, then to a cartridge, and then to a mini disc, and then to an MP3.

[32:59]

But I listened to it over and over again, and so certain music cues are terribly familiar to me, and like, that's why, you know, there's all these lines of dialogue that I can actually say with the same intonation as the actors say it, you know, it was a huge thing before any, you know, home video had been thought of.

Genesis of the Daleks was like the one TV show episode of Doctor Who that I actually owned.

A friend of the podcast, so Simon Moore actually remembers it very fondly.

You know, he said he'd have our heads on a platter.

We didn't mention that.

But I checked on the pescatons.

No, I think it actually predates.

I don't like the does, yes.

Pescatons must have been released earlier because Liz Slayton was gone from Doctor Who by 1978.

Pescaton's was produced between season 13 and 14.

Okay, it was the 1st Doctor Who story that I actually owned in that sort of very real sense, and I've got a very soft spot for it, and you can get it on Audible.

Excellent, very exciting.

[34:00]

Well, I'm going along with you, but I will mention it, there is a Bernice Summerfield audio, which does contain robot monsters from robot.

Oh, yes.

I can't remember what the name of it is.

I can.

The relics of jigsaw.

Okay, I recommend that.

Really?

Yes.

So it's got K1 robots in it?

Yep, yep, yep.

Multiple. numeral.

Well, they were designed to be Moonex, you know, to be other planetary explorers and minors.

Is it?

Is it Michael Kergariff playing?

Yes, yeah.

Do you know where the title comes from?

The relics of jagsaw?

No, no.

In, I believe, 1977.

There were 3 issues.

Yeah, there were these enemies of Doctor Who jigsaw puzzles.

Yes, by Palatoy or Toltoy out in Australia and...

I think it was Waddington's in the UK.

Was it Lewis Marks?

Waddington's, you're right.

And I did used to have one of them, which I had the kraal one with the kraals from the Android invasion.

Memorable enemies of the doctor.

But one of them had the giant robot, but it had this whole group of them.

[35:02]

Marching over the planet surface, yeah.

So the relics of jigsaw.

The relics of jigsaw.

Brilliant. isn't in joke tobac.

Joy.

Pixel.

I have two, to be greedy.

First one is obviously, and everyone will just collectively inhale deeply.

Look at your expectant faces.

The very 1st doctor who wants to book.

It was just called Productal Monster book that came out the same year just to address the balance because Mr. Dix did write this.

It's Joyous.

In those days, if you can imagine, listener, if you weren't around when we were kids, there weren't any photographic references, letter, like, you just didn't get to see anything.

So even though this was what we would now call an A4 format, and it was black and white, although it had a lovely colour pullout poster by Chris Achilles, of gorgeous things drawn, not photos.

It just had all great, so many great monsters, including Sensorites, the 1st time we ever saw them.

And Zabi, what are these?

Oh, that's right.

We've read the book.

And it's a really great little thing.

It talks about his young old face and shock of white hair who magically dissolves into Tom with his teeth and curls.

[36:09]

Didn't I tell you that that was my 1st experience of Doctor Who was that?

Was that Doctor Who?

It might have been the 2nd edition, but my friend...

The 2nd one was smaller and cute A5.

I have it if any of the listeners would like me to bring it over.

I have my original copy.

I will bring it next time.

I also really love, and just because Ian Marta is probably my pick of the season.

He did a target. it wasn't Target, was it?

Yeah, it was.

It was one of the last target novels.

There were 2 that came out of companion.

It was called The Companions of Doctor Who series.

The other one, I won't mention, it's Turlow, something or another.

That's it.

Shudder.

The whole room just shook.

However, if you want the, if you want another, if you want another take on just how good that can be.

Harry Sullivan's War, written by Ian Marty, just shows you what a great, you know, gung ho.

It's very bulldog drum and for meat meets Bond.

It's a terrific read.

And again, if any listeners want.

I'll read it out for you and record it.

It's only 300 something pages.

It's very thick and it's really good.

And and Mona wrote 9 Doctor Who novelisations, including...

[37:12]

Both of which are really worth reading.

And he's extremely good.

Have you read Enemy of the World?

I have, but you know why it's not good?

Ian Marty's stuff was cut.

It went for too long and they cut it and whoever was within one of the editors rewrote whole parts of it. and it's so sad that there are parts of that novel that make no sense and only now we know why because the bloody target.

Oh, editor said, oh, no kids are going to buy this.

It's too long.

I just assuming it was Kerry Packard.

They're not going to buy this.

It too long.

The Rupert Murdoch's of their age just said, no, cut it down.

Ian was really upset about that.

He wrote the rescue as well, which you can get.

Yeah, which is actually cool.

That was his last one.

It was published posthumously. read by Maureen O'Brien, I think, the audiobook.

If you can hunt down an Ian Martyr target book.

Yeah.

In the office.

Really worth it.

Love his arc and space.

Earth shocks great.

But the book.

Let's make that quite clear.

My pick is also a big finish.

And it is the aforementioned I Davros series.

[38:13]

Oh, yes.

Four of them briefly features one of the actors who played Dav Ross, I'm not going to say which, because there have been several.

Jenny Land. could be anyone under that mask, couldn't it?

But also, as young Davros, it features Rory Jennings, more familiar to Doctor Who fans as Tommy from The Idiot's Lantern. as a young De Ross.

It features Peter Miles in the role of Nider, and it shows you how Davros and Nider met, how Davros's experiment started.

It actually, it goes right back.

It goes right back to parallel with the gunslingers, and Nider was actually working the bar. in the hoop skirts and...

I mean, all of Davros wielding.

All of Big Finisher's stories with Davros have been good because they've been very sensible to do Dalek stories with Davros and Dalek stories without Davros.

But this is a very effective and very sympathetic as much as possible examination of the character in the character.

I believe you can get it all for $20 or less downloaded.

[39:17]

It's part of their $5 range.

Exactly.

Right now, it's really cheap on the big finish website.

Yeah, we'll include a link for that.

Really worth getting, yeah.

It's also, if you ever bought the Davros box set, which is still around, which has all the Davros, Doctor Who stories.

It's included the audio of adventures.

I've also included on the back of that as well.

Okay, well, that's all time we have, and then it's the end of Doctor Who season 12, which means it's time for a bit of housekeeping.

All season 13, Nathan, Richard, and myself will be commenting on the stories.

Todd, you will join us again in season 14.

We're shoving him back in that glass octahedron, who'll be hovering up above our heads.

Now, we mentioned also, you know, about the length of your trousers.

So story assignations.

Nathan.

You will be covering.

[40:19]

Pyramids of Mars.

Damn.

It's not very good.

And the Android Invasion.

You get Terry Nation.

Surely can.

Meanwhile, I will be enduring Planet of Evil and the brain of Morbius.

So I've got the sort of cinema classics of the season, which Richard leaves you with 1st and lasts.

You've got Terror of the Zygons. and Seeds of Doom.

You've got a Canfield, Bergen, Marathon, Henry.

That's the double beef all patties with sauce, isn't it?

I'm not complaining, you listener.

I think you're going to, I think we're going to have fun next year.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So Richard, you'll be back leading us through the Scottish Highlands.

I will.

I've already got my fetch and ensemble together.

Do you like it?

Yeah, we'll be we'll be cracking the shortbread for that one, listen.

We'll run we'll run you up a caver next week.

I think we've just defended every Scottish listener.

Lost them all.

Sorry, Blaine.

[41:20]

Sorry, Shaz.

And until then, thank you very much for listening.

Find us online, flight through entirety.com, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and FTE podcast on Twitter.

Is it true you can leave a review?

I've heard I have.

I have heard that.

Yeah, I'm not sure, though.

How would you do that?

I'm playing.

Please do it. to another one of these.

I reckon by now.

You know, we've been releasing this in week's time.

I reckon we'll have 50 to 100 reviews by now.

What a bet.

Really?

out of your system. my mum to do one.

Yes, Mr. Bealby.

Thank you very much, all of you for listening and good night.

Good night.

Thank you for your endurance.

Bye, Brigg.

Bye, Harry.

That was Flight Through Entirety with Todd Bealby, Nathan Bufferly, Brendan Jones, and Richard Stone.

This episode, a sociopathic child, was recorded on Sunday, June 14th.

The next episode will be released on July 26th.

If you're after one of the biggest bangs in history, don't forget, Bondfinger starts August first.

[42:26]

I may like re like it when I watch it in context.

No, you'll find it.

Where is it?

Where is it?

Sorry, me.

You're just stereotyping now, Richard.

I'm a very complex person.