The Other Baron

Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety the only Doctor Who podcast, who are lords of such a small domain. Today it's Meadowbank. I'm Brendan. I'm Nathan. I'm Todd, and we are discussing listener Stephen Busanovsky's favourite Peter Davidson story, possibly his favourite Doctor Who story of all time, Enlightenment. Well, this is terrible, isn't it? I had to do that. Worst story. shockingly bad. This is really pretty good, isn't it? It is so lovely. I love this in the same way I love the Androids of Tara. You know, I love it just because of the atmosphere and the performances. And it is it's another example that it's very atypical for Doctor Who to have a story like this. But to say typical in that it's directed by a woman, our favourite Fiona coming, and written by a woman. Is this the 1st Doctor 2 written by a woman? Barbara Clegg? Certainly written solo. The arc was credited to Paul Erickson and Leslie Scott, although both said in later years that Leslie's name was on it, but she didn't actually have a hand in writing it. But yeah, this is the 1st time a woman has written solo for the program. Last week we complained about the high concept last week. Terminus was set on a spaceship in the centre of the universe that had caused the universe to be created and threatened its very existence at the end. And that was just used to provide some word peril. And it was something that we couldn't see. I mean, there was a map of the universe with a dot in the centre but there was nothing visual about that concept, and that concept didn't really seem to have a big impact on the story. Here we have a fantastic high concept, which is eternal beings sailing ships in order to win a race. The prize for which is enlightenment. It's and it's in every frame of the story. It's so good and it's so interesting. And the eternals, which could have been just powerful space aliens tremendously well realised. And the idea of what they're like, that they're parasitic, they're empty, they're bored. Do you remember Lady Tarnha from Snake Dance? Yes. So she and her son were bored because they were kind of aristocrat. And that's how the Eternals are. They're really aristocratic. They're completely dependent on normal people. They don't have to worry about work. Their chief enemy is boredom. They don't care when their crews are destroyed. I mean, they completely read as aristocrats. And they also read like Homeric gods as well. So in the Iliad, the gods do appear on the battlefield and take part in the battle. But the big difference is they don't get killed. And a huge theme of the Iliad is about mortality and the misery of death in battle that the gods are just playing with, they don't suffer from it at all. And so there are real resonances to the way that the eternals are conceived. I just think they're tremendously good. And I love their word for us. So ephemeral comes from a Greek word that means just lasting one day. And I think it's a great word for them to describe us with. Absolutely. I was saying a few weeks ago, I think with Modern Undead. that a theme of this season seems to be disillusionment and the loss of dreams and what have you. And there are so many. stagnated characters in this and characters who are bored. And that doesn't always necessarily then translate into being very interesting for viewers. Like last week, the veneer are bored with what they do. It's kind of like they only do it because they do it and they've always done it. And plus the drugs. The drugs. Yeah. Yeah, we got bored. And we got exactly. And we got bored as viewers. Modern undead as much as I like it. episode 3 drags on a bit with all the mutants going on about how bored they are. Arc of Infinity, the Time Lords are bored and boring. But here, these bored people are fascinating. You know, it's a study in Border. I think because these bored people are trying to find ways to overcome their boredom. They're absolutely fascinated in Tegan. Like a lot of them. Mariner is so rapey, isn't he? really creepy. It's bizarre though, because yes, he is. absolutely. But he's also compelling. And you do develop sympathy for his character and you do develop sympathy for the character, relationship he has with Tegan. I think the turning point really is in episode 3 or possibly episode 4 when they're at the party on Rack's ship and he starts telling her that he missed her, et cetera, et cetera. And she is just rebuffing him, rebuffing him, rebuffing him, and rightly so, until she suddenly kind of thinks I'm applying human standards here. And she just says, well, are you in love? And he says, I don't want love, I want existence. He doesn't even know what love is. But that's a sucker punch because it's kind of like, well, actually when you're in love with someone, that's what love is like. I'm sure all of our listeners out there have been in a relationship that has broken up and you do feel like a part of you doesn't exist anymore. It's bittersweet and the way he acts at the beginning of the story is horrible, et cetera, et cetera. I'm, you know, I'm not saying this isn't like, um, the sort of novels of the Bronte sisters, where it's like, oh, you're so horrible. I'm going to throw myself at your feet. And it's like that's not a good lesson to learn. But this is an uncomfortable relationship, but one that a non human, non-feeling character manages to raise within us an emotional reaction. I just love Janet in this story. She's, she, her performance is wonderful and navigating that relationship with the danger that exists on the ship and seeing in a, in a dress, you know, and the big hair and and it changes again her performance. And it's, I think it's a tour de force for her this entire show. That scene where she reacts to the 1st ship exploding, the Cretan ship. And then she confronts Mariner for not caring about any of the crew. I think she does really terrifically well. And then she goes back to her cabin and there's the picture of Auntie Vanessa there and she just looks at it. And so the deaths of the crew and just how short and temporary our lives are, makes her think about what happened to Auntie Vanessa. And poor Auntie Vanessa is never, ever mentioned again. And it is kind of blink and you'll miss it, but I thought that that was really particularly nice. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and you know, Auntie Vanessa's not mentioned by name in this, but they, they, they got Delore Whiteman back to take that photograph. They actually called her in and paid her for a half day to do this photo shoot. So it wasn't a stock photo or anything. So they did go to great care to tie that link in. And it's the kind of subtlety we don't always see in Doctor Who in general. Yeah, you know. But that's the thing. Instead of it being a, as you well know, doctor, my aunt died for when we 1st met a, blah, blah, blah, it's just Tegan handing him the photo. I'm sure she says aunt Vanessa at some point. Does she? Okay, maybe it slipped my mind, but you know, it's not it's not sort of hammered into you, you know. But it's this, you know, every story the season has to have an element from the past. So it's stuff from her room in the Tartars and the picture of Aunt Vanessa, as well as the garden.ians. I think, and this has just occurred to me, the way we've been talking. Janet Fielding is the surprise factor of us rewatching this season for me at least anyway. You know, I've always enjoyed Tegan. enjoyed Janet's performance but she brings so much subtlety and nuance to it this year that wasn't there last year, except, you know, maybe a little bit towards the end. It's that thing I was talking about last week. She's able to play 2 emotions at once. Like, you know, with Mariner. She's incredibly irritated and enraged by him. But at the same time, she's constantly asking him questions about his experience and trying to understand him as well. Whereas Tegan last year would have, you know, just screamed at him and stormed off. It's been a bloody impressive year from Janet. Yeah, yeah. I like a great deal. Yeah, I don't think I can fault a single one of her performance decisions this year. No she's very good. Besides Mr. Mariner, we also have Captain Striker. Oh, yes. And he wasn't originally cast in that role. He got that role after they had to move the studio dates for the recording. I think he's great. And there is a scene in episode 2 where the doctor actually has a discussion with him about what's going on. And the passionate Peter Davis injects into that scene is amazing. Now, I am always very measured when it comes to this doctor and what he does. But I honestly think if you watch episode two, you go to that scene. That performance by Peter Davidson is so much better than, you know, the Earthshop thing. They keep churning out, you know, his little speech to the Simon inertshock. I actually think this is better. What's happening in that scene exactly? Well, the doctor is discussing with him. Why are they using ephemerals, why the Eternals are having this race? It's sort of analogous to the well-prepared meal speech that everyone quotes, but as you discussed about 2 months ago, Nathan there are reasons that that speech is not actually as powerful because the cyber leader just goes, right, well, I'll kill your mate then. Whereas here, the doctor lands some really good points and some really good outrage, much like the previous one, nothing is really resolved in the doctor's favour from that, but he does land some really good points, but it also hits home. how we as the audience can react to these characters if we choose to, because as you say it's a big concept. But it boils it down to the doctor saying, these are all the qualities that these beings do not have. And not only do not have, because if it was just a matter of these beings don't feel emotion, we should hate them, that's that's bigotry. But it's a matter of these people don't feel emotion and so they treat others as less than themselves. That becomes a moral point. It's just the passion. It's just like Peter has found something at this and he's going to deliver it next year in his performances and the scripts. And this is the 1st, well, besides Snake Dance, which I've commented before, like in the 1st 2 episodes where there is this you know, energy that he has and the way it's written, this is, it comes back here. It's nice that that scene's played opposite Stryker, who is almost completely emotionless and doesn't seem to be upset as a result of what Pete says. Yeah, yeah. And of course, as you said earlier, Todd, Keith Barron wasn't the original choice for Striker. It was actually Peter Salis of Last of the Summer Wine, and Wallace and Gromit, and Penley and the Ice Warriors. Okay excellent. And yeah, recording dates got moved around as a result of the industrial action, which affected Terminus and Will Scupper, the season finale, which we'll get to next week. And so they lost Peter Salis. And what Fiona coming and said, someone said to her, look, you know, what's the difference between Keith Barron's performance and Peter Salis's performance and she said, well, when Peter Salis came in to rehearsal. First thing he said was, right, where do I sit? And she said, no, no, no. You're a captain of the ship. You're standing. There no seats. Oh darling, no, no. My agent didn't say this was a standing job. I don't do standing jobs. And she's like, he sent us up rotten. He was absolutely lovely. But she did say, when I cast him, I had a particular way the role was going to be performed in mind. And then we lost him. So when Keith Barron came in, I threw out everything I was going to do with Peter because I thought that was Peter's performance in my mind, Peter Salis's performance. It's not fair for me to say to Keith Barron play it like Peter Salis because now I've got Keith Barron, Keith Barron plays it like Keith Barron. So she didn't actually say what his performance would have been like, but looking at some of his other stuff. I imagine his performance wouldn't have been so piercing as Keith Barron, because Keith Barron has that stillness and that still stare. He was regularly playing villains in the 70s and 80s, you know, and he always has that stillness about him and that quietness. What these days we might call an Alan Rickman kind of quality. Whereas Peter Sallis kind of has that more ruminative, muttery guttural kind of voice. So yeah, I imagine they would have been very different, but Peter Sales still would have been a fine choice. And I think really good opposite Peter, because Peter is that very upright actor, whereas Peter Salis is this very languid sort of actor. So that could have worked. I think those 2 are my favourite things in this. I mean, obviously it gotten into Baron as the other baron. And, you know, she's only into episodes. I think I was talking a few weeks ago about not even remembering Colin Baker, you know, of Infinity, but she's one of those characters, Captain Rack, you just remember. And she's only in that few episodes of the show. She has been in Doctor Who before, of course. Vocally, singing the Ballad of the Last Chance Saloon, and she'll come back in closing time. She'll be brought back by Gareth Roberts, but she was, of course terribly famous for open all hours playing Ronnie Barker's sword of love interest, nurse Gladys Emmanuel. And she was hefty, Nurse Gladys, wasn't she? She was a larger woman. Whereas Linda Baron here is, she just looks fantastic, particularly the dress that she wears for the ball in episode three. She's really sexy and sexual. She's got sort of great breast. She's got a really sort of striking look to her. And in fact, I think the reason that Tegan wears a white dress and not much makeup to the great big party in episode 3 is to make a contrast with the overt sexuality of Linda Barron's character. Absolutely. And, yeah, in 1980s, Doctor Who. John Nathan Turner had quite a strict policy of not depicting sex and sexuality in any way in the shows. You know, he was constantly famous for saying no hanky-panky and the TARDIS and that sort of thing. And so we don't see much romance from guest characters as well or sexuality during the 1980s. And yeah, but Linda Barron as Captain Rack is just oozing sexuality and sensuality, I think it's important to point out. And she is physically, she is a perfect casting choice for that period of history. A lot of people use the description Rubinesque as an insult, but she is a Rubinesque model. You can imagine her in a Renaissance painting, except she's really skinny. You actually look at her in that dress. She's really thin. She's sort of... she's great. She looks terrific. You know, she has what might be described as a classic hourglass figure. Yeah, yeah, you know. Yeah, she is amazing. She looks amazing. And I think if you're going to have a character play that sort of flirtatious role. You need someone who is a big screen presence and all eyes are drawn to her. You know, Keith Barron as striker. The most captivating thing about him is his voice. But, you know, if he's standing in the scene, like a few of the bridge scenes he's standing in the background, you may not notice him until he speaks. It's impossible not to notice Linda Baron in any scene she's in. There's bits of the party where she's in the background, but you can just hear her occasionally laugh and oh, Fiona coming really doesn't put a foot wrong with casting, does she? Well, she does. Okay, Cardinals or accent? Sorry. No, no, no. Baruso. No, no, no, in this story. I don't like... I don't like the guy who's playing her number two. Lee John from Imagination. No, sometimes he's okay, and other times he's too... I think it's too much. And I just kind of think it's a bit too, I don't know if it's camp or whatever, but there's sometimes when I kind of think, oh, no pull it back, pull it back. I like that she's got like a little gay side, though. He is incredibly... He is terribly happy. Are there publicity shots of them threatening the doctor on the Tartar set? Yeah, because just because that set was set up, that's where people were filming that day when the radio times photographer came in. I think it may have also been a matter of not showing off the buccaneer set before telecast. But yeah, there's no deleted scenes of them getting access to targets. That would have been awful. I mean, if the Tartar set had been in their, you know, a big space set amongst all of those lovely wooden corridors, that would have been a terrible mistake and they don't make it. I think the sets look amazing. With maybe the exception of the whatever room with the eye thing. Oh, the vacuum shield room. I love that I hate it. And I think it's really poorly shot at times when they're on the floor. You can't tell, is there a force field there, what's going on? I just think the whole perspective and angle is wrong. The whole in the floor, isn't there? That it looks like people could defizer, yeah. There's no way Linda Baron is falling through that hole. She's not fitting through it. It's just not going to happen. I don't think Peter Davis could fit through that hole to be honest with you. But I just think it's really Paul, that whole set and like, what are the big sort of vacuum shield? You know, she's got 10,000 locks. I'm now sort of beginning to criticise a few aspects here. I think I did myself in coming into this because I used to really just adore this completely. And so I had really high expectations. And so like all of that sort of stuff just began to annoy me. The performance that you're talking about, her gay sidekick. I just thought, just pull it back a little. I just wanted, you know, and not to say that he's, in some scenes I think he's really great. And he's got great look. Yeah, but in other things, I'm thinking, oh, you know, at the beginning, the white guardian is fading in and out. Why? I don't understand. If the black and white guardians are equal, then I don't see why one has control over the other. I don't get it. I think that the Guardians are horrifically bad in this story and I think Cyril Luckam as the White Guardian is terrible. And I think the whole conception of the Guardians for this story is completely wrong. When we 1st see the White Guardian at the beginning of the rebos operation, He is a colonial plantation guy. You know, he's in a wicker chair. He's having a lovely drink. He's on an unconvincing set. He is in absolute control, and the doctor defers to him by calling him sir as if he's like an angry headmaster. And he is not nice. The associations he's given make him aristocratic and colonial and dismissive and kind of nasty. And I think that conception of the Guardians is Bob Holmes doing that to undermine the idea that there are, you know, these 2 equal manichee and good and evil forces running the universe because that's a horrible, stupid idea. But here he's just a sort of pathetic, good guy with a bird poking out of his hand. And he's struggling to communicate as if he's just some space person. makes no sense to me. It makes no sense. And then in episode three, when the Black Guardian is threatening Turlow, I'm going to criticise the direction and the performance here, he actually walks around and goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I'm going, what the hell is that? Like, no. And also, he grabs Turlo and tries to strangle it. Isn't the whole point, the Black Guardian. Not that it's been stated, but isn't the whole point that he can't interfere with the physical universe, which is why he needs Turlo to pick up a rock and why he needs Turlo to operate the blue switches. Really? The Black Guardian can't appear and do that? But more than that, okay? Why are they in charge of enlightenment or there? How often do these eternals actually have this race? What are they going to do when they get enlightenment? Like, there's just, there's just things that I want answers to these questions. Like, does this race happen yearly annually? The Eternals don't die and all their little people don't die when they, you know, they just go back to the void. There's, yes, we get the death of the cruise. But again, okay, that's awful. We have one man overboard who goes bop and disappears. Is he an eternal or is he? So he's an eternal. We get Linda Baron and her psychic put out into space. Now, isn't that a scene with the doctor and Turlow? We're meant to think it's the doctrine? Of course we're not. But it is, Tegan thinks it's the doctrine, Turlo. No, no, no, but who's in there with them at the time? Yeah, it's a doctor in Turlo. Yeah, they push them out. And it's like, I just find that a real cop out. It's like, I have been waiting for, you talked about the fact that the doctor was suspicious of Turlow, right? Yes, he's suspicious of Turnlope, but it's one of the things... Yeah, there's a resolution at the end, but I want to see the conversation between the doctor and Turlow. Do you know where I'm going with this? Like, I just think it's a big cop out by not seeing them getting pushed out. There's a big cop out by the fact that I don't get. I don't want a confrontation scene per se, but I just want something more set. See, I'm sorry, but I am going to disagree. And this is something I've discussed with Stephen Busanovski, who we mentioned earlier. He loves his story. Where the doctor says Enlightenment wasn't the Diamond Enlightenment was the choice. Yeah. When he's standing there just watching Turlow, that to me is the moment Peter Davidson arrives as the doctor, he's the doctor who gives you everything you need to make the right decision, but making that decision is up to you. It's bizarre because the doctor does nothing in that scene, but it's one of Peter Davidson's most powerful scenes so far, just because of the expression on his face. He's not looking at Turlow. He's not looking at him expectantly. He's not looking at him pleadingly. He's not looking at him threateningly. He is standing back and saying, I trust you. And I trust my fate in your hands. But the thing is, he's not doing that blindly, you know, he has experienced the last 3 stories and he's been suspecting Turlo since Morden undead, and quite a few times in this story. He questions Turlo's motivations, not about being in the TARDIS but about coming out onto the ship with him about whether it'll be all right with the crew, about, you know, if he's comfortable on the ship. Does he need to go back to the TARDIS. There's that lovely scene where Turlo gives up the key to the rum locker and the look on the doctor's face. Both the doctor and Turlo are hugely disappointed with him for doing that. Yeah, he betrays Jackson. Remember, Jackson is the teetotaller. So he's not drinking the stuff for the blade. the rum that makes everyone else happy to don spaceships and go above decks. And Turmo betrays him to the Eternals, and both the doctor and Turlo are hugely disappointed in him. And I like that that moral decision, that wrong moral decision. Look, I don't think we believe that Turlow really wants to be friends with Captain Rack and gain enlightenment in the later episodes. I think the doctor's assessment of what's going on is the one that we believe. But just because we've had his character called into question. I think that's really interesting. And I also think there's another thing that bears on his final choice, and that's when he's trapped in that stupid room. He calls out to the Black Guardian who's really mean and horrible to him. And then he immediately calls out to the doctor who comes in and rescues him. Yeah, and it's ambiguous as to whether he's heard Turlo calling out to the Black Guardian verse. Oh, that hadn't occurred to me. Because when the doctor comes through the door, there's a surprise look on his face. It can't be surprised that, oh, that's Turlo's voice. You know, he's gone looking for Turlo. He knows he's gonna find him. You know, I think maybe the doctor expects to get clobber and it's a bit of a trap because he doesn't kind of relax until until he sees that Turlow is genuinely in distress and I was going to be sucked out into space. Why did the stars spin, you know? I think that's some subjective view point? Yeah. It does take a very, very long time for the air to evacuate from that room thing, does it? Yeah, it does. Although, mind you, I think, uh, what's it, in event horizon, you can survive about 30 seconds. No, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. You can survive about 30 seconds in the absolute 0 vacuum space. Yeah, no, but it's about half an episode. It's also like the man overboard thing in the beginning of episode three. Could they be slower? Like, you know? Oh, it's not tied down. I really, really like the music in that scene. And I don't like Malcolm Clark very much. I dislike his music mostly for earth shock. I think it's horrible. He's got a sort of tendency to go back and do the same thing over and over again. He's a big fan of bangs and crashes and stuff. Does he do the twin dilemma score? I think he does and it's... No, I think it's Roger Lim, I thought. I thought it was Attack of the Sidemen. Yeah, he does attack. But he does some great work for the Eternals here. Their theme is really great. And the scene where Turlo drifts from one ship to another across space is really good as well, rather than making it urgent. It makes it, you know, like a little bit mystical and a little bit sort of strange. It's really good. Well, I'm glad it's really good because that's juxtaposed with the stupid music as the crew get into their space gear and get their rum rations, which I just think is appalling. Oh, it's a horn pipe or something, isn't it? That's a little sailor theme. I will say, though, that cliffhanger, there's your re-edited Doctor Who cop out to that cliffhanger because episode 2 ends with the doctor shouting, no. And episode 3 starts with Turlo, I'll never serve you again. And then you cut back to Davis and say, oh, don't be an idiot. Which is actually better. That would have been a great cliffhanger. If it had been Pete, don't be an idiot. Then resting cliffhanger face and then closing credits would have been really good. Oh, dude, it's a season 22 Australia cliffhanger all over again. Above decks is beautiful and beautifully lit. Yeah, we're evenly shot. It is, you know, 4 1983, 82. I think they're doing a pretty good job. One of the shots I don't like is, you know, when they cut to that the captain on the other ship, the Greek captain, I think it is and it just looks so cheap. And then he's got that, the jewel and the doctor looked just very observant about that jewel. Something that annoyed me as a kid was the fact that when he actually crushes the jewel and they're trying to get it outside. There's still bits on the floor and they're going, ah. When we were watching that, Rod said, why didn't they just pick up the rug? They can get you on the hug. Why didn't they do that? But I don't think that happens in these stories, the doctor manages to switch his celery. Yes. Fake celery for fake celery. That's why it wilts very slowly. I was actually a little bit worried that he might put the celery that he'd had on his lapel back into the container with the other celery and that someone might eat it because it would be really kind of rank and horrible by now, but he very thoughtfully puts it in a little scabbard. I think there's a sword on the wall and he puts it in the scabbard so that no one's going to eat it. Something just occurred to me that should have occurred to me ages ago, reading the celery. Because the original celery was created in cast valva, right? So the original celery was created by Adric. Wouldn't have been amazing in Earthshock if in the last scene, the doctor's celery crumbles to dust because it's dead. Sustained by block transfer computation all this time. Yeah, and, you know, Adric has been sustaining the doctor's salary all this, you know, just with a little sum in the back of his head all this time. You know, that's the kind of thing modern Doctor Who might do. I'm not blaming the production team for not thinking of that. You know, that's very esoteric, but that would have been cute. I don't know why he wears the celery. so dumb. No one does until... until Robert Holmes says, oh, fine. Oh, make something up. Why does the Black Guardian burn with the Enlightenment thing? Because the light destroys the dark. tells us. I think with a story like this where you do have sort of all powerful gods sailing around the solar system in ships, that maybe it's not such a terrible thing that we don't get explanations of a lot of stuff that's going on. I think there's just something sort of poetic and lyrical. It's a little bit like warrior's gate where it doesn't really work on a sort of scientific level or sort of sapphire and steel. You know, if you ever discovered that sapphire and steel were really from the planet Bloz, you know, and that they had space names and stuff. That would kind of undermine it. And I like that this is just a random thing that doesn't really play into the mythology of the show. I think Russell has the doctor name, check the Eternals at some point. Yeah, yeah. David Tennant does. But they're not a big part of the program. And I like that. I think there's something just sweet about it and the visuals. You know, there's a special edition on the... on the DVD. And it's, I don't like special editions very much, and I'm not sure that I like this one. It does it in widescreen and that doesn't work with the source. 6 material. minute cut, I think, yeah. But they are able to a really truly breathtaking shot of all of those ships in space. Yeah, yeah. In a special edition. Yeah. So it's it's on a separate disk, a 66 minute car, and it was on off the cuff remark Peter Davidson made, I think on the Castro Valver commentary because Fiona Cumming was on that as well. And he said something lines up, you know, I'd be very interested to see one of our stories cut like one of the new series with that kind of pacing and that kind of storytelling. So for Enlightenment and for Planet of Fire, these separate editions were prepared. I think the Enlightenment Special Edition is far more successful than the Planet of Firewall. Which is terrible. We'll talk about that. Shockingly bad. But this one does have something that the new series has, which is a simple, straightforward, understandable plot, despite the crazy insane high concept. It's a race and Captain Rack is killing her competitors and that eventually puts the doctor and Tegan in jeopardy. And I like that. And it's maybe just slightly too thin for 4 episodes. And certainly episode one has a lot of marking time because you want the episode one Cliffhanger revealed to be nowhere in space. So not quite enough, I think, happens in episode one, but I really appreciate after Arc of Infinity, where the threats were incomprehensible and the whole thing was just kind of stupid or terminus where there was a high concept that was just talked about I like the fact that the plot is straightforward and it makes it so much more enjoyable. They're really good points that you've made there. I mean, as I said, not a few minutes ago. I went into this as really high expectations and so things weren't as good for me because I was picking apart these things. You know, the doctor doesn't explain who the black and white guardians are at the beginning, you know, at the end, this 3rd encounter. Those are the little things that I've mentioned. Yeah, a good point, actually. 3rd encounter is that the... There will be a 3rd encounter, something like that. And those other little things that I picked up, sort of, maybe I need to go back and just watch a few of those things. I still I still would have liked something more in terms of the doctor and Turo having some conversation. That's just me. I just need that for me. No, no, I think it's a flaw. I do think it's a flaw in the sense that we've been leading up to this big decision where Turlo is going to have to make a decision. And although it's alluded to, as we said, I agree that I don't think that that quite comes off. And I will say one of Eric Sey would strengths as a writer is that when characters have disagreements in his scripts, you are under no illusions that they are having a disagreement, you know what they're having a disagreement about, and there is usually some kind of resolution to it in the course of the story. So, yeah, I do agree. They could have put that in very easily. Regarding episode one, it is marking time until the cliffhanger but something I really like about it is, you know, it starts out with a strange situation, you've got the dimly lit tartist, which looks fantastic. I just wish they'd light it orange like that all the time. Yeah. So you've got a strange thing happening, but then they land on a sailing ship. Okay, that's a bit normal. Oh, then they meet the crew. That a bit normal. Oh, the crew don't know how they got here. That's a bit weird. You've kind of got these peaks and troughs. You've got rising action and falling action all the way through the episode and then you get that reveal at the end. So it's it's very 60s. You know, if you look at, say, the 1st episode of the Sensorites that is kind of strange, normal, strange, normal, strange, normal strange, normal, alien outside the window. Yeah. You know, it's very slow paced like that. So I definitely see what you're saying. I don't think anyone's compared the 1st episode of Enlightenment to the 1st episode of the Sense rights, but it's absolutely irresistible as a comparison. They're really similar You heard it here first. Analoda Rogers has fantastic hair. What does that mango R on the screen in episode one? Like, you know how they look on the screen? Ah. Oh, when Mariner falls off. Well, Fiona Cummings' impression of the TARDIS scanner was that the camera was mounted in the light on the top, but also that it was 360 degrees. So the reason you see his hands is his hands are actually meant to be round the back of the screen. while his face is in front of it. Now it doesn't quite come off because he's put his hands up in the wrong way. But that was some Fiona's concept. So he falls off. Yeah, pretty much. He falls off the top of the Tartars. It's hard to imagine him actually doing that, and I am glad that we don't get to see it. The camera being in the light is in Legopolis. Yes, very clear. That doesn't worry me. I'm always confused when I'm watching that once. Yes, exactly. Yeah, it does. doesn't quite work. Something I just thought of in terms of Linda Barron. First of all, Linda Baron and Mark Strickson works so well together. And you can see what Mark Strickson's doing in those scenes is as Turlo, he's going, I'm going to act the same way Captain Rack does and hopefully she'll trust me. And I just think it's so wonderful about 3 or 4 times. She's like, I can read your mind. I know you're deceiving me. And he's like, well, of course I'm deceiving. They're really fun together. But I love the bit of when she's talking about her winning enlightenment. She says, I'll be able to create and destroy as I wish. I'll never be bored again. So that introduces the concept that enlightenment is what you do with it. So I think for Mariner, his enlightenment isn't the crystal. His enlightenment comes over the course of the story when he starts to understand what emotions are. And, you know, he doesn't get there at the end. And, oh, that bit at the end is heartbreaking. when he's saying to Tegan, I need you. And Tegan looks to the doctor for reassurance that there's nothing she could have done. You know, and again, it's Janet being fabulous and complex and multi-layered. It, like, Tegan shouldn't have to apologise. You know, Tegan has really been treated quite shortly by Mariner but as a human being, she can't help but feel for him. So do you think his enlightenment would be becoming a real person? Yeah, yeah. You know, for a comparison a few years later. You know, he's data, he's Spock. Yeah, actually, a bit racist saying that about Spock. There's nothing wrong with Spock being emotionless, but data actually wants to become more human. But Captain Rax alignment is destroying things. She doesn't actually understand what it is she wants because she already creates and destroys it will. But she thinks she needs this thing in order to do that. And that, that's not what maybe, okay, maybe that is what enlightenment is for her, the illusion of that free will that she already has. But it's the line from Carnival of Monsters. You know, you give them a hygiene chamber, they'll store fossil fuel in it. You give her the power to create and she'll just destroy. I've really enjoyed this discussion. I think the points that both of you have made have made me reevaluate this because I was going to call Snake Dance my favourite of the season. Like this had dropped, but I think I need to go back and rewatch this because the visuals are stunning and the performances are great. And just some of the points you've had to say, I want to go back and watch it again, and I think it's gone up in my opinion. I like, I think both snake dance and enlightenment are good stories. And like you, I'm not a big fan of the Davis and era stories generally. But these are really good. And I think they're probably better than anything that we had last year. Oh, definitely. Yeah, absolutely. The thing is, Todd, I see completely where you're coming from. I think because a lot of this season doesn't quite reach its potential. Enlightenment is held up as appropriately enough, this Shining Jewel. But that does mean we get to the point where we expect it to be even better than it already is. And I certainly get that with some other Doctor Who stories. you know, if I go back to watch them. It's like, I've said it before and I'll say it in 2 months when we get there, I don't rate Caves of Andrazani that highly. But I understand why people do. Maybe it's because I came to it with all these impressions already formed. Don't worry, Brendan. on the same page as you. Well, dear listeners, we hoist our moon rankers as we speed away from Enlightenment, and, uh, towards this year's two part story Terence Dudley is back with the king's demons. Hurrah. Hooray. And a blue engine. Until next week, you can find us online at flightthroughentirety sexy. Flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and at FTE podcast on Twitter over on Bondfinger. We have our Moonraaker commentary up appropriately enough for this story. You can find that at bondfinger.com, bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes, and bondfinger cast on Twitter, and all things being even you may just find a new episode of Doctor Who in 10 seconds up on our YouTube channel, the link for which you can find in the description below. Until next week, may none of your rum be spiced with hallucinogens that make you think you're actually sailing on the ocean when you're in the middle of space. I hate when that happens. Thank you very much for listening, good night. Good night. See you soon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was Flight through Entirety, starring Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley, and Brendan Jones, theme arrangement by Cameron Lath. This episode, the other baron, was recorded on 31st of July 2016. The next episode will be released in 2 weeks time on 2nd of October. I knew a busty immortal buccaneer in need of a little gay sidekick. At the flight for entirety, we have gay sidekicks available in various sizes. Remember to use the offer code foolish ephemeral and check out. I think it's one of the reasons why Tegan wears that white dress and not very much makeup to the... why she wears that white dress and not very much makeup to the... I can't think what it's called. Could you use Tegan's name in that because you haven't mentioned her before? Oh, sorry. Yep. I think that that's the reason that my name is T. This is what it's like recording Doctor Who in 10 seconds. I think the reason that Tegan wears a white dress and not much mate.