Men Manning and Being Men at Each Other

Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to a new year of Flight through Entirety. The only Doctor Who podcast who smothers themselves in bat's milk for strictly medicinal purposes. I'm Brendan. I'm Nathan I'm Todd. I'm a generous serving of front boob and a blouse for this episode. I can do so. Happy Christmas past, everyone. And for a Doctor Who story at this time. There's actually a significant lack of boob. It is the Caves of Andrazani. Marry a boob, really, is there? It's almost flawless, almost. Except for one or two glaring circumstances. Can we just cast our mind back a few weeks to Resurrection of the Daleks? And I said that I thought that was... I said that I thought that that was the worst Doctor Who story today. And the reason it was bad was that the doctor was barely involved. He certainly didn't really do anything to resolve anything. And it was a lot of people with guns, shooting other people with guns, a lot of matcho dialogue, a lot of obsession with sort of hardware and weaponry. And the funny thing is, this story has all of those flaws. It's very, very much like resurrection of the Dale. A lot of frock, is there? Except it's really, really astonishingly good. I know that not everyone on the panel agrees with me. What's happened here is for the 1st time, I think, in John Nathan Turner's tenure, perhaps since David Fisher. We've got a writer from, well, you know, the golden age of the program back, and that's Bob Holmes. And you remember that when we did our Pertweis retrospective, all of the stories I chose as good Pertweis were Bob Holmes stories. And this is really, really on another level as far as writing's concerned. And then there's Graham Harper as well, who, again, I think this is the best directed story today. The 1st Doctor Who. He had only been working for 2 years. He saw this as his big breakout in the business and the industry. He really wanted to get into film and he'd studied film very closely. And you can see this. is a very filmic director. I would say that he understands how the movement and the action and the characters are the same thing. So the camera and the movement, and the dialogue should all work together. An actor doesn't move unless it's actually part of his motivation. But uh, you can kind of look at the stories either side of this to see where that doesn't actually happen. But here there is no gesture that's made without a damn fine reason, even to the point of doing a very, that very 17th century that very Jacobean way of, shall we say, side eye to the camera. But, um, and does lovely side boob to the camera as well. There's a lot of signing to come. Look, some people might say it's the best episode of Blake 7 ever made. That's what you think, Brendan. Yeah. Brendan. I'll I'll come back to what I think of this story later, but what I will pressage by saying, I think this is Kezvan Rosani is a brilliant piece of television. Yeah. I'm not convinced it's very good doctor. Ooh. What do you think, Tom? Look, I like it. I think the direction is great. And I think the direction actually helps the script. I mean in the last couple of episodes, like all the gun stuff, I'm pretty much over. Yeah. And I actually like a lot of the stuff in the 1st episodes more perhaps than towards the end. I mean, if I cast my mind back to when I was a kid, I didn't think it was any better or any worse than any other Doctor Who. It was just another story, it was the 1st time that I knew the doctor was regenerating. Yeah, because of the 20th anniversary BBC Times radio special. So we knew all the stories that were coming this season, the 1st time ever. And listeners will know how much I detested the Peter Davis and doctor as a kid. And so I just wanted him gone. So my focus was, look, to try up and die, right? Gets get on with it. No, no, no, honestly. Just hurry up, die. get on with the new doctor, that's what I want to see. And so, and I was talking to a friend... Simon Moore, about this, we were in year 7 at the time. And we actually enjoyed the following story more, right? Because there was a new doctor and that sort of thing. That was my perspective. I think it's well directed, but there's no doubt about it. And I understand why people are going to say it's like one of the best stories of all time, but it's not my favourite by any means. Robert Holmes's dialogue is delicious. Yeah. I have a question for you, Todd. And it's something you raise there. Last time you were on the podcast for season 20. You had a rather disturbing obsession with the fact that almost no one was dying in the show, and we commented a few weeks ago, I think, during resurrection, that you must love resurrection because all the deaths. I mean, the opening scene, I think 12 people are gunned down. What's your opinion of the use of death in season 21. I'm laughing, listeners. I'm laughing because I commented in the 5 doctors about the cyber massacre and how like over the top that was. So I got to Warriors of the Deep and everybody gets massacred and you know, et cetera. And I'm going, okay, that's, you know, fine. Yep, got to resurrection of the Dialects and I'm going, oh, for goodness sake, just, I just want this death to stop, you know? Right. Just stop. So I was over it. I mean, that story is just so bleak. You can have too much of a good thing. There is no need. There is no need to kill so many people, right? And again, this happens here. I'm all for death and dying, but I think it has to be federation drink, listen. But you need you need you need people to be killed off, but you don't need to kill everybody. Otherwise it loses its impact. A rogue one? Spoilers. So yes, so, you know, buy halfway through Resurrection, the Daleks I'm going, I don't want anybody else to die. I think the problem with the resurrection of the Daleks, though isn't that everyone dies. I think that it's just incredibly terrible. And um, this one where literally everyone dies except Perry and uh Kraut Timmon, uh, the women live, the 2 women in the story live but literally everyone else, including the doctor dies, including the magma creature, including all of the queen bats who've descended down to the lower levels to die. And you remember that Pete and Perry are dying the entire way through. So, It was always sort of fun. I do remember at the time watching this for the 1st time where you're kind of wondering what's going to take the doctor out. And yeah. Yeah, and it's deliberately set that up that way, isn't it? You really do think everyone, I thought the dodgy lift might get in. But the fact that, like, really early on, they fall into the spectrocks. Well, they bounce into each other. You see Nicola going... Her bum comes back into shock. I'm pretty sure she goes A over T, actually. She is the most... She's the most buoyant of the dolphins. That's something that is wonderful about the story because with the 1st doctor's regeneration, it's kind of it's ceded early on in the story that something is happening to him. And even then that was, that was a production necessity because Hartville had a week off. You know, so they had to have the doctor collapsed. And this as well. God, I didn't even spot him under the latex cape. But, you know, all all of the other regenerations have been something that have happened in in a flash in the last episode. Yeah, you know, whereas this, we get this wonderful moment at the end of part 3 where the doctor is trying to land Stots's ship and starts to see the regeneration effect in front of him in the screen and he sort of shakes it off. And a lot of people have come to the DVD since and said, you know I never noticed that on broadcast and I never noticed it on video. It's noticing it on DVD. He's kind of shaking his head and you see from his perspective. Really? I just thought it was cheaply reusing the same effect, you know? Same here. Well, I like that interpretation, though. Well, according to Graham Harper, the idea is, from that moment, he could regenerate at any time. He does like do a lot of crawling and stumbling and stuff and fall you know. He's holding on. He's the best falling over doctor we've ever had. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, crapful. His falling is one of the best, his falling is the best thing in terminus, let's face it. Yes, they're much other. Anything else to recommend that much? Sorry. But something I've often said about this story. This seems to be the Doctor Who story that Robert Holmes has always wanted to write because he's written it twice before. He's written it as the Space Pirates, and he's written it as the Power of Kroll. I was going to say, it is actually the sister story and possibly in the same universe as Power of Kroll. They work together really well. Absolutely. But I think what makes this one works so well. In space pirates, you had the goodies and the baddies. The Baddie, Craven, played by Dudley Foster, I think, was really good. Yeah. The good guys, General Hermak, played by Jack May. was pretty funny. I love Jack May, but he just wasn't a commanding presence, you know. In Power of Kroll, really no one's a good guy. No. Yeah, you've got the refinery workers who are horribly racist and you've got the swampies who are painted as the aggressors and literally painted in green. But they're not particularly presented as having much agency, you know, the kind of ruled by their religion and the ones who question it, don't really get much of a look in, et cetera. But in this story, you have wonderful villains. And you have wonderful, quote unquote. Good guys. General Chelak, he's he is a good guy by default, but at the same time, he's a complex character who makes decisions we find appalling. But we understand people to die. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But we understand his reason and it doesn't reduce our sympathy for the character. You know why he was cast? You know, you do know that. Well, because Harper wanted him to be like Earl Flynn. So he found the closest actor he could get with a face like Flynn and put stuck a moustache on him. He looks like Flynn. I actually think he's I actually think he's a very brigadier like don't know. That's very true as well. I think I think that the way that it's written. Holmes is obsessed with colonialism. This is another colonialism thing. And um, and so he's a sort of blustering idiot general and he doesn't overplay that, but certainly Morgan says that he's obtuse. And he just seems to be a little bit thick. Yes, he hasn't really picked up on it all. No, and and, you know, clearly he's being out. If we were a blow-up toy for the last 3 months, that's quite worked it out, yeah. Has your hair always so perfect? Where is he getting his product from? So he doesn't play it very big or broad. He plays it sort of fairly naturalistically, but he is disappointingly unlikeable. And there is, there's no one in the story who isn't evil, is there? There are no good guys. Curry is quite, you know, as we're about to find out, you know, the quintessence. on. Well, the thing is, I look at Shara's Jack. I don't think he's particularly evil. Not at all. Exactly, he's the most sympathetic. He's a villain, certainly. And he frocks up like one, certainly. And it's, it's really the beginning of the unfortunate trope of villain fancies peri. But at the same time... At the same time, there is there's a complexity to that relationship, one of the best scenes to exemplify that is when Jet gets his mask ripped off, and Perry is hiding, and he goes to check on Perry. She sees his face and she screams and he recoils in terror. But just before the camera cuts away, Perry starts crawling towards him to check on him. And it, you know, it's a blink in your mission. It shouldn't have been it shouldn't have been cut quite there should it? Well, it at least... I think, in a way, it shouldn't, but in a way, it leaves a bit of ambiguity as well. It's it's certainly an uncomfortable characterisation, but There are shades of gray in most of these characters. I would argue with the exception of Stots and Morgas. Yeah. You know, I actually think that Sharon's Jake is horrible and much much more horrible than I thought he was on previous viewings. And I think the reason is that he is horrifically rapey when it comes to Perry, like absolutely revolting. And we talked last time about how Perry is here to be the victim that she's here to be manhandled and pushed around by men, and it's going to be the big characteristic of her run. And the only thing that saves it is that she is so charming and she plays strong and saki in this. It's very easy to forget with the big mistake that's coming up, if you want to see it that way. But, um, and the 2nd Bob Holmes story she does actually, but she kind of regains some of her tenure. But in this one, she's strong and feisty and totally likeable. And kind of the Tegan we should have had all the time. I actually completely disagree. Really? I find it very compassionate. No, she is. She lovely. Look, I really like her a lot. I think that interplay that we have with her and Pete at the beginning of episode one is marvellous and she's really terrific in it and Pete's really doctor-ish and, you know, Richard, you said how lovely it would be. It would have been to have a season of those 2 together. But in fact, all we get is that one episode because the 2 of them are very quickly separated. And then she's very quickly incapacitated. And so when she 1st meets Sarah's Jack, she's frightened by him, he keeps wanting to touch her, and attempting to touch her, and she doesn't want that to happen, and she's flinching and screaming whenever she thinks it's likely to happen. And there's one really awful moment where Pete puts his hand on her to reassure her. But because she's in his presence, she she flinches and screams slightly at Pete's. Because she's such a good little actor. She is a good actor, but the fact is that this is more stuff about her being a victim and her being pushed around by a man. And it's really, really horrible here. One of the moments where I think maybe it can be read as sympathy because of the way that Jack looks after her when she's sick, he turns the air conditioning on, which will eventually lead Morgus and Stotts to his base. He's keeping her face cool. He's looking after her. But the way I was reading that is she's now so incapacitated that she can't even object to being touched by him anymore. She's got no power at all to do that. And I think that's awful and, you know, Holmes is famous for his mistreatment of women, the companion who's had the worst time of any companion up until Perry is Sarah James Smith, and that was on Bob Holmes's watch. And so he or she gets really, really horribly pushed around. And so I just can't read Shara's Jack as anything other than a big creepy vase or... He was Twiggy's partner and the boyfriend. The 1968. Christopher Gable actor, yes. He's got very nice hairy hands, doesn't he? was astonishingly so, Brendan. Did you not notice that Graham Harper's story that Christopher Cable always called Harper Twinkle on all the previous productions and he was absolutely terrified and mortified that he'd be doing the same thing on this, but he didn't. Yes. Yes, yeah, sort of according to Harper, um, Christopher Gabble was a... actor as well, but he saw, and very pretty, which is why he actually had him cast as, um, was it Morgus or Stott, so it was one of the money. He was cast as one of the other roles because Harper didn't think he'd want to wear a cowl mask, but then he saw how pretty the mask was. No, I must have that. His eyelashes are lovely. He brought his own line, I should say. Christopher Gable saw this as an opportunity to stretch himself as an actor. And there's a feature on the DVD archive or recording because Christopher Gable is no longer with us. Um, an archive recording where he discusses, if you like, his sort of method for getting inside the mind of the character. wrapping up. Graham Harper has even speculated that perhaps the reason he didn't do the whole twinkle and jokey thing was because he saw this as an opportunity to play a real part, if you like. Because, I suppose as a dancer, it's very easy to end up in the chorus with no character at all. Whereas, you know, you're given a character, you're gonna run with it. Little world on Graham Harper. He was uncredited as the director for several scenes of Warrior's Gate when Paul Joyce was removed from the set before being invited back on. Paul Joyce, much like Graham Harper, was trying to be a filmic director and as such, fell massively behind time in the BBC set to the point that John Nathan Turner came down and said to him, right you're out. Graham and I are going to do this. We don't have time. Paul Joyce went and sat in the BBC bar. And half an hour later, John Nathan Turner came to him and said look, we can't decipher your shooting screen. I'm sure something can be arranged. So I think Harper even then directed a few sequences afterwards sort of simpler sequences while Paul Joyce focussed on the more complex ones. So Graham Harper makes far more a success of the filming approach but there are still moments that were dropped. Do we know about these? No, quite a bit. every episode overran. And they still overrun, but yeah, it was quite a considerable amount cut out. There are deleted scenes on the DVD and there's one very famous sequence that just wasn't shot at all because they wanted to a bit like Pertwee's departure. They wanted to tick a few boxes for Pete. So of course they explain what the salary is for. It turns purple in the presence of gases in the praxis range. at which point he is good for his team. And it's a powerful restorative on the black galafrase. And can be inserted nasally. Yes. And they also wanted to give him a sort of heroic fight scene. And that's what the magma creature was about. Really? I'm going to fight the magma creature. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in episode in episode four, when he's trying to get to Perry, he was going to fight the magma creature and they ran out of time. They left for the end of the day. And so it's replaced with the doctor finding it shot despite the fact, and Graham Harper says this. We've seen bullets don't affect it. So what's killed it? We don't know, and that's why the doctor finds, but says, hmm, it's not your day either. But in a way, that's more Davidson. Yeah, a fight scene. And it continues that theme of everything dying. The magma creature has to die. The magma creature is another of sort of Bob Holmes great. Great loves, like when he has to put in the crap creature that they have to visualise, you know, it's a man creature. We also get the giant bat as well. Yeah. Which is kind of true. At least that's covered in smoke, you know? Well, I mean, he, when the magma creature attacks someone. And of course, it's got rubbery hands. So it stars in the Cliffhanger to episode two, which is very exciting with its rubbery hands. When the magma creature attacks someone, Graham Harper just makes the camera go out of focus so that we can't see how truly terrible it is. It is shocking. It's great abs though. It's well fit and great sturdy but very short little legs because you know Janet was still actually engaged in being paid for the performance in this. It probably played in the in the 1st 15, the Andrazani major 1st 15. No, it's Janet. She was still being, yeah. We can never, ever act Janet on Twitter. My main problem with the magma creature is the stupid cape. Yeah, why does it have a cape? And the thing is, it's this rigid carapace that it doesn't quite fill out. It's covering up something that was even worse. It gives it a bustle. Well, I don't know. Did it look like a penis or something? That's the only reason to give something a cape in Doctor Who. Sorry, Justin Chatwood. not saying you. You are. A penis. No that would be unkind. Yes. However, so who else do we need to talk about? I mean, Perry's sort of sidelined because she's sick. Pete's sideline because it's Bob Holmes doing a Seward story. I think we need to talk about the Trow and the crowd. Yeah I think we probably do. You know who they originally cast us, don't you? Steve and Mrs. Peel. I wish, and Charles Morgus, and John Normington is just the greatest thing in the history of the universe. Harper wanted Alan Lake and Diana Dawes. Wow. We've covered a lot of this in the fabulous story called Underworld when we talked about Dinosaurs and Alan Laker were kind of like the old wheezy couple, but they were both very fine actors. Alan Lake especially. Very, very good actor. I think it would have been amazing as Morgus. And John Normington, I think, is he doesn't get the credit that he deserves for this because I think he's absolutely superb. Oh, he makes this. The best thing about him is he's constantly expressing sort of regret and panic. Think about when the president falls down the lift shaft or when the Northcore copper mine, blows up or whatever, and he's constantly expressing regret or these serious emotions, and he does it in this completely affectless way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which just makes him sound fabulously, superbly insincere. How tragic. It could been worse. It could have been me. Yo, that it's such a chilling line. Talking of the president down the lift well. Like, I mean, I just remember that as a kid. It's just something that just sticks in your mind, like the fact that he's, he's just done a, and have the attendant shot as well. A technician shot. It's just like, really? like you've just planned all this. It always bobs back into my mind because in LA law a few years later, there was a character called Rosalind Shays played by Diana... Moldar. TV's Dr. Pulaski. And she was sort of the semi-regular evil sort of bitch villain. They call the lift, and next thing you know, she's talking to one of the guys and just walks straight in and the lift hasn't arrived and she falls to her death, you know? And I just, and I always think of case of Andersani and think whoever wrote that episode of LA Law, I reckon must have seen this episode of Doctor Who. It's tremendous the way that Morgus. Morgus goes to shake his hand at the president who moves his hand towards him and then he just pushes him instead. It's so terrific. And the president is wonderful as well. He's got this sort of great posh voice and there's all this stuff about morality. The president almost risks being a good guy. Yes, there's the level of my, I've had to suppress my ethics for power, but he actually does believe himself to be a moral man. He certainly judges morgas. Remember, there's that conversation about closing some of the plants in the east so that people can work for no pain. Exactly, which, well, welcome to Australia. Do you not over in the West for less than $2 a day if Ms. Reinhardt can bring them in? It's so topical. But I think it gives us a really lovely posit of something Holmes was always talking about the politicians are actually powerless, no matter how decent their motivations may be. They are nothing but puppets that can be dropped from a great height whenever necessary. And he is cynical. I mean, the president still is cynical. He goes, you know, I suppose we might make that seem morally justifiable. Yeah. And I mean, Holmes is a great cynic and here he just gives it free reign. Not a lot of new hope in this, is there? It really isn't. No, no, it's very it's very much a hopeless story. As a kid, I really disliked all the asides. When he turns to camera. Look, I just hated it. You didn't have BBC Shakespeare. Well, you were having to sit through all of those Lala wards doing side-eye. And I just felt it got worse and worse is like at 1st it's at the to the side and then it's directly into the camera. And I really disliked that. Maybe if you'd been 3 or 4 years older, because we loved it. What do you do now? No, but we were 15, we're sorry, I'm just, this is the best thing ever. I just went, oh, really? Now I still am annoyed by the direct shots to camera later on. I like the earlier sides. I mean, you know, I've got that baggage from a kid and as a kid and I, you know, but I think his performance is great and then... You know, it's an accident, don't they? Yeah, the notes were to slightly askance to the camera, but Normington interpreted doing it as Jacobean drama is, you know, as Cod Shakespeare's. Yeah, and apparently... You remember House of Cards where Ian... In Richardson very, very frequently turns to Cameron and it just shows his control of the entire television program, that there can be people around him actually listening to him and he's so confident that he can just deliver it soliloquy. bring that up because when you see Spacey do it over the period. How long has Cast of Cards of US been going 17 seasons, something like that? Yeah, something like that. Four at least. Yeah, 14. Okay, yeah. But it's so successful. Those are sides. Because it's weird. I had this one on video as a kid, but... I don't recall ever watching it in full. I would fast forward to the end and I would watch the regeneration scene over and over again. Spoiler alert, um, but I don't, you know, I don't know if it scared me or there was something else I didn't like about it, but I never watched the full story until it came out on DVD in, what 2000, 2001. Just check the show notes, it'll tell you. Yeah. So, you know, 1st time I watched this, I was 18, 19. And those asides, I knew there were asides. I knew that, but the 1st time, and I think his very 1st aside is straight down the camera. The 1st time he turned to the camera, I jumped in my seat. It's really funny. I think he just says, you spineless critton or something like that. I mean, I just thought it was part of the direction and what makes this story stand out is that direction. And also, isn't it a 3D shop where they walk around? Oh, that, yeah, that magnificent 3D monitor in the middle of the room. yeah. Yeah, which is something that, you know, hasn't hadn't been done before as well. So, you know, I think I think they do work. I mean, I'm not, yeah, I think, you know, the direction. But one of my overriding things is in the Australian broadcast is at the end of episode 4 where the mask is pulled off Sheriff's check. It cuts from the mask being pulled off to the whole labs on fire and everybody's dead. Right? That's one of the overriding things. I remember I just went, what the hell? Like the fact that his face is so hideous has caused this entire destruction like within a second, but obviously I knew the sensors got to it. And it's one of the few times in Doctor Who, where I really went oh my goodness, you know, there has been a big cut. So there are quite a few cards. So when Sharon's Jack threatens to pull the doctor's arms and legs off, that's cunt. The scene where Stotts and Kralpa, where Stotts is holding Kralpa down, has a knife to his neck and is forcing him to eat a cyanide peel. That's cut. The scene where Stots and it's a fantastic scene, where Stots and Morgus go off, leaving Kralpa behind in the shuttle and then Stots comes back and just casually guns crop her down and smiles and then leaves that was cut completely. And I've objected to that sort of thing in Doctor Who, you know over the last little while to, you know, pus coming out of people's faces and people screaming in terrors, they're killed and all of that sort of thing. Like, I don't think that that's right for tea time TV. But here, I just think it's, it's so confidently done and so good. And it is kind of Bob Holmes. You know, Bob Holmes has this thing where he gives, say, would what, say, would want in a kind of stuff you sort of way. But it's just done with more, well, intelligence. Yeah, it's so well done. It's done with characters. It's rather than archetypes. Which we were talking about in the beginning. There is no action that is not without the character's full motivation. It's not saying going to the plot. So think of that scene with Stotts and Krelp, where Stotts is force feeding him the pill. It's very powerful. So it starts, stots is lying on the ground relaxing. Krelpa stands over him. Harper shoots between Cralper's legs at Stotts who's lying down. And then there's that conflict where it's all about men manning and being men at each other and that kind of thing. You manned me in the face. That really hurt. Sorry, go on. But then the end of the scene is the exact reverse of that where Kralpa has been defeated. He's lying exactly where Stotts was lying and the camera is now shooting between Stotts' legs. It's so thoughtful and so well done. It's grotesque and it's over the top and it's super violent and stuff, but it's, it's really, really good at establishing the relationship between Stotts and Kralpa. I have to say, because it's been a while since I've treated the listeners to a comment from Broad. Yeah, that scene, the end of that scene, we both just looked at each other and at the end of the story when he was giving me his notes. He's like, that bit with the pill. Bit homorotic. I like, yeah. Yeah, and it helps that it's Maurice Roves. Yes, isn't he tremendous? He is special import, Maurice Rue. And a special import twice, in fact, because he did live in the States. And the original location filming. There was a scratch on the film and they had to recall him. Wow. And it was remounted between the 2 studio blocks, which presented a problem because if they couldn't get him for that location filming, they already had one studio block with him the stots. They couldn't recast the part, they would have had to rewrite all the stuff. He was already back in the States because I think everything he had to do in studio was done in the 1st studio session. But he said, yes, of course, you know, of course I'll come back over. You have to pay for my flights and accommodation and whatnot. But I don't think he even asked for an extra fee or if he did, it was not a rush fee or anything like that. He was quite happy to come over and do it because he enjoyed the work so much and the quality of the script. And because he was just sitting by the pool otherwise, wasn't he? With all those lovely pounds around him. Why do you have to send overseas for an actor? He is really good. And I think they were trying to recreate Scorbi, but I mean, he's better than Scorbi from Seeds of Doom. Is that right? Did I dream? Or Captain Peacock, right? Or Captain Peacock. He does play a Romulan many years later. Are you being served reboot, Todd? Yeah, Scorbit. Yeah, okay. Yes, not Maurice Rose. No, he's Miss Brahms. He's a Romulan in a really terrible CC6 Star Trek episode. Yeah, that's right Which also features Linda Thawson. As a Cardassian. And it's just like, I wish she'd come back on Deep Space now because she's fabulous. She's really good in that. She just walks in and insults everyone without even opening her mouth. She's brilliant. Speaking of brilliant. Crow timid. Yes. I think she's wonderful. And I just like the way how she swans in and is asked to do all this sort of stuff and you kind of, you kind of not sure if she's really taking any interest in it all. And then it's just so delicious when she just turns the table on Morgus at the end. But, you know, to promote this secretary to this position, she has obviously got files on so many people and it's not like she's actually really a nice person because she's in it for herself to get that job. But it's, it's a, I just think it's a fantastic moment in the story. She does question him one time is that there's a wonderful moment where Sharon's Jack says that he wants the head of Morgas at his feet congealed in its own evil blood. And then we crossfade to the head of Morgas and the head of Morgas is issuing the directive about the director of the Southcore copper mine. I think every time I mention that mine, it's from a different point of a compass. which one it is. But he's died, and he orders all of the staff to stand silently for a minute in remembrance of him, and then he goes, no, wait a minute, make that half a minute, that she kind of does the eyebrow as him as if she, you know, can scarcely believe it. And that final scene where she comes in, she's at Morgas's desk and she just completely schools Morgas and tells him off and she does it. Like not from close-up. We never actually see her directly. She's on a video screen. She's like on a television, which is, you know, in the middle of the frame. She's not very big in the frame, but she absolutely controls the scene, nevertheless, and she's sitting there with her feet on Morgas's desk. She's just tremendous. That, though, is so Shakespearean as well. Not just the betrayal of the lieutenant, if you like, but say at the end of Macbeth, when the battle is being lost, a soldier comes in and says to Macbeth, the battle is being lost and it's just all off stage. Well, this is off stage and it's so off stage, it's just in the video monitor. It's just from the perspective of Morgas, who is the hubristic figure in this, just like Macbeth was, and Morgas has killed the king. He's killed the president. Not exactly to assume the office of the president, but to assume the power, as Macbeth does, as well. And in this, you've got Krautim and just reporting from afar, you know, the battle is lost, sir, right? The messenger from the battlefield. But it's got that modern twist of, yeah, if Shakespeare had had video screens at the back of the stage, he would have used that kind of thing, you know, because that is the modern messenger at this point. It's really clever of Holmes and Harper and especially the way Harper shoots it. Yeah. Yeah, we're not even the camera isn't even directly on the video screen. The video screens at an angle. It in the middle. It's not a very big part of the frame, but she completely owns that scene. And especially it's it's the only time that Morgus looks surprised in the whole story. And even then his voice doesn't waver. He's still got that crap. Why? Are you sitting at my desk? He's so good. Well, I don't think there's a weak performance in any of this, and we've talked about Chelac, and Sharon's Jack, and Morgus, and... Janet Field. Salatine is, for me, initially, whenever I watch this, I kind of think, oh, that performance, but those teeth. I know looking, isn't he? to the fact that he's playing an Android, and then you see the difference in the actual real one versus his Android version, and it makes me appreciate what he's doing, what he's doing. But initially, I kind of always go, I always go, you're a big crap but I understand why. I think the Android is spectacular, and there are some great moments where, so for instance, he sees the real Salatine and Perry in the next room through the wall, but he doesn't say anything, and it's all just told visually, and he has this great eyebrow thing as well. He's constantly behind Shellac because Shellac's always forward in the frame and and Salatin's behind him talking to him. And he does lots of turning and raising his eyebrow. And there's that wonderful thing where Pete suggests to Shara's Jack that Salatin can't be a perfect copy and that someone will eventually see through it. And again, we cut, or maybe even crossfade, to an interaction between Salatine, where Salatine is just super ludicrously efficient. Yeah, you know, in this really preposterous way. And then we cut back and there's no dialogue explaining why we're going to that or anything like that. It is just this, and here's why Salatine's not going to be convincing. Yeah, you can see how fastbinders completely based your entire performance, but alien Prometheus and Covenant is coming up. I think also, Salatin is another example of characters who you might expect to be good guys being evil, and it happens twice that when a character is told that both Perry and the doctor are suffering from spectroxoxemia, The character laughs at them. And Salatine laughs uproariously at the revelation and is kind of glad about it. And so he's evil as well. everyone we meet is evil. The thing is, though, with that laugh, I've got a slightly different interpretation of it, he's been prisoner with Sharon's Jack for months. So all he's got for company are Androids and a Madman. He's started to go a little bit mad himself and that laugh he does. It's not. It's not a kind of I find this hilarious laugh. It's an hysterical, ironic reaction, and it's not because they're dying. It's because Shara's jack has been foiled again. Yeah, although he does say to the doctor, I don't suppose you see the funny side of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, I love the doctor's reaction to it. Oh, marvellous sense of humour. What do you mean we're dying? Pete is so darkly funny in this. Like when Shara's joke is saying, oh, you know, I've got company now, the doctor says, oh, yes, long walks on the beach, picnics well-prepared meals, that sort of thing. It's it's homes again, and we talked. We talked about this when Bidmead was writing for the doctor in Frontios, and he just said, stuff that I'm writing, Tom Baker dialogue, and Pete delivering that just absolutely Sean. And here you've got smart mouth, Pete. doing what he should always have done. I mean, it's still the same acting performance, but he's got such good dialogue to play. It is his best performance. Yeah definitely. And, you know, he even tries to kind of laugh Perry out of it when they're prisoners and they're about to be sent before a firing squad and he's making jokes with her. Do try and speak English, Paris. Yeah, yeah. But it's kind of gentle and when she does say that she's scared, he doesn't then dismiss it. He like, oh, okay, I'll stop doing the jokes now. And Nicola is brilliant in that scene. She says, like, I don't mind dying. I, I, I don't want to be shot. It's just a very subtle thing. Thing is, when he's then pacing up and down trying to figure it out, she is also looking around the situation and kind of warns him that, well, you don't have very long, I think they're about ready for us, you know, she is incredibly brave. She gets that funny line too, about when they're discussing the itching and the blisters and stuff like that, and she says, I don't suppose we'll die of it in the next hour, which I think is really pretty terrific. Yeah. And we did lose another scene on the last studio day in the Tartars because this show, this story and then the twin dilemma was affected by industrial action as well. The scene shifter strike. So the last studio session of this was actually the 1st studio session of the twin dilemma, which we'll be discussing in a couple of weeks. Then the last studio day overran and they very wisely said, we've got to get the regeneration and we'll do that 1st and if we get time, we'll do the opening scene. And the opening scene was meant to be explaining why they'd come to Androsani Minor. I think you can work it out, right? I haven't seen the scene, but they came there to get some sand to get some glass to make a new reticular vector gauge. That's right. That's right. And what the conversation essentially is, is the doctor explains all that. And she's, and Perry said, oh, do you have glass making material? Oh, I learned glass blowing from the monks of Barastoboln 6 and she says to him, what were you doing in a monastery? And he says, I haven't known you long enough to tell you that. Oh, you're such a pain doctor. And that so when they dropped that scene. They decided it was too long to just have it in overlay as we get as we get in the finished product. So they went back and just redubbed enough information to get through to the new scene, but it does then give Perry that weird line of, they wanted, they wanted to get some sand, to blow some glass, to create a new reticular factor cage. Yes, your accent does drop there. I did note that in my notes. I actually wondered whether there had been something in that scene about Pete making fun of her for saying glass and so she says gloss. You'd think so. It's a possibility, certainly. That's a pretty masterful thing. There's a beautiful glass shot. A glass shot at the beginning by the artist, Jean-Pierre, who did glass shots earlier in the season and for Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. The only thing is, because it's film kind of wobbles, but on the DVD, they fixed that. So it doesn't wobble and the glass shot is nice and stable, but you can select that as an additional option, dear listener, for those of you, for those of you on the... Yeah, yeah. who want to wobble who want the original spanner in the pirate planet. God damn it. We have 2 cliffhangers that we need to talk about before we leave this story. And one of them is the cliffhanger to episode one. Do any of you, not you, Brendan? Do any of you remember this as a child? Yes, and I thought, how, you know, they get shot and, well, well the guns go off and I actually stood sat there going, How are they going to get out of this? Did we had conversations about it at school the next day? Yeah, well, we've just seen the Diana Reek episode, The Living Dead, on 1st broadcast after about 15 years, on Australian TV, the same year, and which was a similar thing, but you hear the guns going off and there's Emma Peel. I think the only time we ever see her with a machine gun, killing 12 people. And she does. Yeah, and she's really good at it. Actually, could have a bit more of this. Um, and saves Patrick McNee. So it's almost shot for shot. So, if you'll pardon the pun. So in this one, um, yeah, it was, it was, it was the topic of conversation over the sale. It's done like a magic trick as well, because, you know, they put the, they pull the cloak down over their faces and the music is all these, these drum rolls. Like 2 plum puddings waiting to be immersed, yes. And it isn't quite a cheat, I think, because you do get that montage of Sharon's jack. got the 2 of them on the screen. He sends for 2 androids. There's things going through pipes. He's pressing some buttons. They're curiously affectless when they are about to be executed so they could be Androids. So it's he doesn't just pull it out of a hat. And the way it's resolved is so incredibly well done because we get the execution. We see that they're dead. They get cut down. We go back to the conversation between Morgas and the president that was interrupted at the end of episode one. Uh, and then we see Pete and Perry walking into uh, Sharon's Jack's headquarters and only then do we find out that they were Androids. I do think that it's hilarious that Sharistjet can just produce these androids very, very quickly. He's got a great production line. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think the master and probably Rex Farrell helped him install it. Well, you want to know something, though. Salatine did see them a while ago. So salad, Android saladine could have been relaying information back, you know, like data and Star Trek can very quickly measure things. But he has cameras everywhere. you did have a shot of them. There's 2 things I love about that cliffhanger so much. And one of them is the president's line just before the cliffhanger, who he's disgusted by the fact they're getting the red shroud for executions because the red shroud was for soldiers. And Morgus kind, Morgus kind of looks at him like, what does it matter? Yeah, you are crazy. The other thing I love about this cliffhanger is apparently as scripted. The music was meant to come in before the gun's fired. It was meant to be ready, aim. But, It was Graham Harper who said, no, let's actually have the guns firing. Make it even more. As you say, Todd, how are they going to get out of this one? And I think that is such a great subversion because we expect it to be ready aimed. We expect it to be the doctor kneeling down with the with the miller overhead with the scythe and then someone comes in and says stop. But no, nobody... Yeah, and that's, so maybe that's, you know, Robert Holmes subverting again, although, and I'm not saying this to be uncharitable. I doubt Robert Holmes was watching every week, if at all. You know, he probably... He hadn't seen Peter Davis. He wrote for Tom. It works so well though, doesn't it? Yeah, which means you can just, as we've said before, you can write great lines and any actor can do it. You don't write for a doctor, you write for the doctor. But I will say that when I saw this at 18, obviously I knew they weren't dead at the end of episode one, because I'd seen the regeneration, but I didn't know the beats of the story, I didn't know how they got out of it, and then the great storytelling trick is as soon as they walk into Shara's Jack, you go, of course he can make androids. Yeah. It is that thing where it's not, do they survive that we care about? It's how do they survive? And so having them survive before you say how they survive, I think was terribly clever. Yes, yes. The other cliffhanger? Well, the cliffhanger, is it a cliffhanger? Let's call it the end of episode four. Okay, the regeneration. Yeah. So Pete's almost upstage by Nicola's cleavage. He likes to go on about that story. It's the 1st regeneration where there hasn't really been an arc or any other over umbrella meaning overwinning meaning to it. There isn't a journey, there isn't, you know, the self-discovery there isn't, there's, there's, in other, in every other's, Doctor Who renewal, if you want to call it, for that, and the confidence about to presage that as well, isn't he? But there's always been some meaning behind it here. It's just another incident to the plot. It's meaningless and that's what Holmes is always, that's Holmes's really cynical humour is, yeah, this has just happened because somebody made a wrong term. I think that that's true. Like he dies sort of by accident, but he's also found himself in a situation where his stuff doesn't work anymore. And the thing that reminded me. Yeah, being charming doesn't save you in this world. I'm the doctor and this is my friend Perry and it has no effect. He gets shut down immediately. And the thing that reminded me most of is episode one of the war games, where the doctor turns up for all we know in World War one which is a real historical, a real horrific historical event, and he has no power to prevent himself from being executed at the at the end of that 1st episode. And it seems inevitable. He can't do anything, none of his charm. None of his usual stuff works. And here, all of Pete's usual stuff just completely fails to work. And this is a story where he hasn't saved anyone. where he hasn't changed anything, where he's been powerless to have any effect on this situation. So it's finally the doctor faces the situation that just kills him. What I, what I like about that sort of tension, though, is, and it's happened a lot to Peter Davidson's doctor, that he's a bit of a, he's a bit of a whipping boy of the universe. You know, something goes wrong. He immediately gets locked up and the plot keeps on happening without him. Where is here? This may be part of your objection, Tom. No, I'm not objecting. I agree completely. It was yeah, a lot of wastage of the principal character, yeah. But here, you know, he spends the 1st 3 episodes trying to be charming. He tries to charm. Chelak, he tries to charm Chero's Jack. tries to charm, stots, and he tries to charm Morgas. Android, he tries to charm that Android. Yeah, thing is that works. And I love that x-ray thing where his hearts are outside his lapels. But, um, what seems to happen is after he's tried to charm Morgas and that hasn't worked. I think he's kind of figured out, you know, he's going up the food chain a bit. So, you know, a general, then the general's enemy, then the general's enemy's enemy, and then the general's enemy's enemy, the boss. And at that point, he just goes, Okay, you know what? It's not working. You want me to be mean? You want me to be nasty? I'm going to steal this ship. I going to crash it. I'm going to get back to my friend and to hell with a lot of you. And he becomes this really powerful character, but he doesn't forget his manners. Because when Stotts burns through the door to get to him. He says, ah, starts in. Have you enjoyed your rest? You might want to hold on to something, Cos. I don't know how to land this thing. And that's the thing. He, in becoming this more action-driven character who has kind of gone, I've given you all the chance. forget all of you. He doesn't become like David Tennant ranting and screaming. He keeps his calm, he keeps his cool, but he's just like, no, I'm done with this. I'm going to do the only thing I can do now. I've you know, I've tried peace between you. I've tried persuading you against violence. None of you are listening. I'm just gonna save my friend now. And I think that is so powerful and that is so central to Pete's character, especially seeing as, you know, we've discussed the fact that his doctor is so emotionally reserved. He's not giving up on his principles, but he's kind of like, these people are not interested in my principles. So I will use the word. Oh, get some more. I'm going to use the one principle I have left, which is I'm not going to let another one of my friends die. It's an amazing final episode, actually, because I think he only exchanges a handful of lines with Sharon's Jack and that's it. The rest of the time he's running and getting shot at. Stay warm. And then we get all the floating heads. Yes, yes. So Janet and Mark are still under contract. It is a bit Futurama, isn't it? I believe they recorded Gerald Flood's line as comedian. Tell speaks the truth, doctor. I believe they recorded that at the end of Planet of Fire, so that was pre-recorded. But they had to issue new contracts for Anton Anley, Matthew Waterhouse, and Sarah Sutton. And there was some concern, I believe, that I think Matthew Woodhouse was overseas during the initial filming. in London. That's that is an a notorious production of Hamlet. Yeah, about that one? He did it in Connecticut as well. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was it dinner theatre or... Should we put some of the reviews up? But when they moved the filming dates, he was suddenly available but there was discussion of not having him in there and... Well, the rationale was they could get away with it because the character was dead. But I think it's so much more effective having him come up last. It's Pete's last word too, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. And as rationalised by Eric Saywood in the twin dilemma thing, that pushed the doctor on because he never really liked Patrick and he felt guilty. Thank you, Eric. We'll talk more about that normalisation in a couple of weeks. It really is a cynical piece of work. Well, you know that Saywood was espousing at conventions that he wrote a great deal of this script. Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, he will come. He wrote the whole salary piece. He will go on to write this script again at the end of the next season. Not quite so well. Also directed by Graham H? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so the generation happens. I think the regeneration's pretty amazing. There is that there's that thing where the light pulls in life yeah. He's definitely lying down as Pete. He suddenly sits up in his column and instead of the rollback and mix thing that we used to get, and he's just, boom, suddenly he sits up in his column. with his flies open. You know that story? That was Pete's spare costume, but Colin couldn't get the flies up. So because he's big boy, even back then, and he famously mooned Sandra Dickinson on St. Peter's then wife, and got a rousing murmured cheer from the rest of the production staff who had apparently been completely ostracised by Sandra over the last 3 seasons, which was not the easiest of guests. No, you can go to Pete's autobiography for more of that. Yeah. The funny thing is that costume, which, as Colin, quite frankly says, was... Well, also split up the back, there was a V cut out of the back of the pants. Peter then had to wear that costume to do time crash. Well, you know, it was still around. It was still around. Ian Levine hadn't been doing it as a party. Was that the Doctor Who experience? Graham Harper has said about the regeneration effect that he got it to about 90% of where he wanted it to be. And he says that on the commentary and Peter and Nicola are just saying, what? But it looks great. He's like, no, no, no, no, no. You know, you never have enough time to do exactly what you want. But I got it about 90% there, which says a lot about the man. But yeah, of course, a day in the life. The note at the end of the Beatles day in life was the influence for that sort of chord that plays as we're going into the howl round kind of effect. 1st time we've seen how around since 1973. And then, yeah, you get that explosion and Colin sits up and yeah. And he gets to say some lines by Bob Holmes, which is kind of nice. He'll do that again. Is it Bob or is it? We wish it was neat. in about, you know, forced through time. I, I, I really like that bit. That's 3 eyes in one breath. Well, I do, I was quoting. I really like that bit where, for the 1st time after a regeneration, a doctor is actually really self-assured, it's not it's not like he just kind of sits up and looks around dazed like Davidson did. It's not like he's unconscious like John or Tom were, and it's not like he can't focus on his surroundings like Pat was. He just sits up and straight away. He like, yes, it's me. Hello. It's just very quiet and very self-assured, and I wish they'd continued that quietness, self-assured. I'm glad he lost the eyeliner, though. There was a hell of a lot of eyeliner in that shot. Oh, there's still a hell of a lot of eyeliner in 2 weeks. Oh, is there, guys? It's very much the Shatner approach to main character acting, isn't it? I like the more of that. I like the confidence in that in that moment, in that performance but I'll talk more about that. He does Fluffy's line though, doesn't he? That final line? Does he? Well, he's supposed to say, and it seems not a moment too soon, but he appears to say, and it seems on a moment too soon. Oh, I always heard it as not. It's always not. Yeah, have another listen. No, it's definitely not. No, I've heard him say things about his dissatisfaction with his delivery of that line before he's so farewell to Pete. Todd, do you had Peter the convention? I know you had Nicola at a convention. No, never. You definitely had Nicola, so to speak. And did she talk to you about this 1st story and her expectations for the role that perhaps didn't quite come to fruition? You know how she she said to you? She said to us all that she'd written a backstory for the character. Of Perry. She'd sat down like a proper little actress starting out in a career and that Howard and, and the doctor, you know, she saw his very much, or her original father, she saw his very similar and but, but Howard was, of course, more like the master and was cast as a, written as a much older character. But, now, Perry had a full, Nicola had written a full back story for her character, which never got to happen because it was, it was going to, she was, she'd talked to Pete about how they would both express this as a role and Peter went, actually, I'm going. Put them off. The only thing that bobs into my mind is that, you know, she's talked about, the fact that Pete spent the entire production whining her up over the fact that this Colin Baker person was coming in and just winding her up as to how bad it was all going to be. And that's why they, it takes them the next story to really work out not only onscreen, but behind the scenes to get into a proper working relationship because of this sort of this thing that's been built up into her mind. Very naughty. Todd, before we go, because I think this is going to be important in 2 weeks time with the twin dilemma as well. What did the audience think of this story? It's no better or no worse than the rest of the season? It picks up a cool 1000000 for the last 2 episodes? It does. It does. 6.9, 6.6? And then the last 2 episodes in that week is 7.8. So it does jump because it's the end of the doctor. Yeah, and it places those 2 episodes play 62nd. you know? The previous week was 66, 75. So, you know, it's one of the higher rated ones of the year. So Peter over the last 3 years has really sort of hovered around the seven, 8000000 mark. You know, he hasn't lost that many. Well, I mean, I think looking at it probably 6.5 to about 7.5 is where most of his stock sits after that 1st season. Do we think that the Monday Tuesday thing was a mistake? Well, I mean, it's been juggled around like 2 nights a week for the last 3 years. It was, you know? and so they're going to change that for next year. Um, because they felt that it needed to be on at a set time rather than, you know. So decisions have been made behind the scenes, but I might talk about that more next week and next season because there's going to be, you know, they've made a lot of decisions over the last few years that have worked out for the positive of the show, just by happy accidents, things have happened, but now decisions are going to be made and it's going to have, it's going to go the opposite way. Dear listeners, we bid a fond farewell now, too, Peter Davison, but do come back next week for our retrospective looking at his entire era. Over on Bondfinger, we will be shortly releasing view to a kill finishing off the Roger Moore era as we finish off Peter Davidson. You can find that at bondfinger.com, Bondfinger on Facebook and iTunes and Bondfinger cast on Twitter. We cover him in sticky stuff when he gets a rash. Don't forget to check out flights through entirety.sexy, flight through entirety on Facebook and iTunes and at FTE podcast on Twitter. And Nathan has recently regenerated the Randomiser.net where you can now find an array of options. You can get it to randomly pick you a story based on doctor, story length, missing episodes, not missing episodes, and if we've recorded a flat through entirety podcast, You can even find it through going through there. Until our Peter Davidson retrospective next week, may none of your trampolines be Spectrox nests. Thank you very much for listening and good night. Good night. See you soon. It doesn't stop, does he? I think there's something in that for all of us. That was Flight Through Entirety with Todd Bealby, Nathan Bottomley, Brendan Jones, Richardstone, and his Kenneth Williams doll. theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb. This episode, men manning and being men at each other, was recorded on December the 28th, 2016. Next episode will be released on January 15th. If you'd like to jump in the mud bath with the rest of us, you can at least buy some spectrums first. Hairy books are sexy. Yeah, well, the thing is, I've had to stop waxing. The last time I last time I waxed it, I've had about 50 ingrown hands and I just look like I've got measles now. No, don't work, sir. As long as you don't engage the zipper while you're doing it, we assume that you actually have a zipper. Are we actually recording at the moment? Yes. This is where we get our tag scene.