A Very Long Tone Meeting

Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight Through Entirety the only Doctor Who podcast that suspended in perpetual geostationary orbit around a black hole without falling in. The weather's quite nice though. I'm Nathan. I'm Todd, and I'm Peter. Hello. We're somewhere in a distant galaxy, many light earths, many light years from earth, and a long buried ancient evil is rising from the depths. So you keep a lookout for Philip Hinchcliffe while we discuss the impossible planet. So, Peter, I understand that this episode's written by a friend of yours, and therefore we can pretty much safely discount anything nice you say about it. Is that right? Well, that's pretty much the situation all the time. Yes, full disclosure. This is written by a good friend of mine, Matt Jones, which makes the fact that it's so good, and even greater pleasure because it means I don't have to fake anything. I can just like wax lyrical. I gather it this time, like during Russell's tenure, he does a passover pretty much everyone's script, is that right? As far as I know, yes, I don't think. Well, Stephen Moffat script, I think there was an agreement between him and Russell that they wouldn't edit sort of each other's material, but I think every other writer, Russell would always have a pass on. I think, um, is it James Moran, who wrote Pfizer Pompeii? Yeah, I've heard him on Twitter talk about how great that experience was and how Russell is able to really kind of give the dialogue a really sort of sparky, rustly kind of feel to it. Yeah, kind of a sprinkle of gold dust over the top. And you can tell because the era feels so homogeneous. It all feels like it's part of a greater hole. And I think that's Russell's influence. Everything's sufficiently the same but different. So this is our big 2 parter. Last year it was written by Stephen Moffat, obviously the empty child and the doctor dancers, but this is a sort of big tent pole event episode, isn't it? Yes, it is. And it's the 1st time that we're not on Earth, New Earth, Parallel Earth, space station around Earth, we are far, far away. Like it's actually the 1st time in the series, that we are that distant removed from a safe sort of environment. That's interesting, isn't it? There was a very definite attempt, I think, not to alienate the audience in series one by going to Planet Zog. And, of course, for budgetary reasons. They didn't want to do a sort of crappy job of their sort of 1st new planet. And I guess if you don't count New Earth, the 1st time we actually ever use a location to represent an alien planet is here. We get a quarry, our very 1st Doctor Who, 21st century quarry. And what a magical use of a quarry. I mean it looks superb. Yeah. And what Todd was saying there as well, about sort of being far removed when they do go into spacing is our 1st alien world. There's a sense that you're very far away. You know, this is the edge of the universe, edge of a black hole. It's a small group of people, help is a long, long way away. And that feels like those Hinchcliffe stories like Planet of Evil. Yeah, it was very much Planet of Evil, but it does reinvent that whole genre. And if you think about Planet of Evil, it's one of the many stories in the Hingecliff era where Liz Sladen is the only woman in the cast and where everyone else in the cast just has a single last name. So it's all kind of men with a single name and no sort of particular characteristics apart from Vashinski's chest hair. Whereas here I think they do a fantastic job of making these people real. It's such a diverse cast. And yes, you're quite right. All of them have different characteristics. From Danny, the Captain, Zachary, Crossflane, Toby, Ida Scott Scooty, Mr. Jefferson. So yes, it's a diverse cast, and we even got 2 extra security officers in there just so that they can be sacrificed to the right moment in time. But all those other people. you actually care about and get a feel for the characters and they're all sufficiently different and they've all got their parts to play with either Rose or the doctor and I really enjoy them all. And I think that's one of the big strengths of this script is having such a diverse cast and such a big cast, but you get to feel for them all. I don't think there's a cast that, well, a cast of characters, the actors are all great. But the characters who are that big and that's sort of strong in the entire rustle era, every one of them feels like a well-rounded person, every one of them is played by a good actor. And it's one of the hallmarks of kind of the good writing that people have nicknames. and so scooties called Scooty, her name is actually Scutori, I think. And, you know, this is a real world where people have nicknames and, you know, rib each other about things. Well, the ribbing is what really struck me is that there's no real interpersonal conflict here. We don't get drama from the fact that the characters hate or distrust one another. And they joke with one another and they kind of, you know playfully punch one another on the arm. Everyone seems to get on. We'll talk a little bit later about what happens to Toby, but he immediately at one point in this episode just thinks that Danny is pranking him. So that must be a thing that happens. It's so good. And that little bit is in the control centre where Danny and Scooty have a little bit of a back and forth and he bops her over the head with a what looks like one of those Australia Post tubes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. think that must have been what I was thinking of really is very nice. And they are all sort of young. They're dressed in normal clothes, like they're not dressed in sort of space outfits. They're dressed like people might be dressed. I think, you know, Danny's wearing a hoodie. Toby's wearing an attractive tight t-shirt. You know, it looks modern. It looks 21st century and it's not alienating. We're not all wearing kind of spandex jumpsuits. And it's such a hard trick to pull off, having a cast of characters that work so well. You look at when the series tries to do it again in episodes like 42 or the Waters of Mars. And they're fine, but the characters are not nearly so well defined or work so well together, and it makes you realise what a trick it is that this episode pulls off. Yeah, I think maybe Waters of Mars comes closer, but I certainly don't remember the sort of obvious camaraderie and things. And I think, you know, for instance, Zachary Crossflane, who is extraordinarily good, like he's a great performance and he's given just enough of a backstory. You know, he's had to step into the captain's role at the last minute. He's super unsure of himself. And you see Ida encouraging him as they're being introduced to the Doctor and Rose. And it's so nice. You know, it's so good. that informs his performance all the way through. Yes, I think Sean Parks is really, really good. And certainly when he allows the doctor to give him a hug. It's a really interesting moment that I picked up in this time around. I thought, is he actually attracted to the doctor? Is there something there? I never really, I just thought, is that? Yeah, it was just an interesting moment and I thought it was really beautiful. Do you know how I read it? It was one of those things where I had remembered it as a sort of slightly annoying tenety bit of business where he sort of overacts a bit and is super sort of 10th doctorary. But he asks permission for the hug. They hug, and Zach actually likes it. You know, not because he's attracted. Yeah, not because he's attracted to the doctor, but because it's a nice gesture. And he probably needs a hug, you know. And it's so well played. It's so nicely played by Parks. I think it's really, really good. It's a nice tenant bit, but the annoying tenant bit you might be thinking of comes just before when the doctor says, oh, I'm very good and you think doctors stopped being self-aggrandizing. It's one of it's one of the 10th doctor's least attractive traits. See, when Tom does it, I think he sort of alien enough. You know, Tom will do, and if I'm right, and I usually am, you know, that sort of thing. But I don't know. I'm beginning to think that the more David Tennant is playing at like David Tennant, the more attractive and likeable the doctor is. The moments when he sort of drops the act a bit and talks normally and there are plenty of them here. He's really, really good, but there is an artificiality and manneredness to his performance, and he's saddled with an accent and I sometimes find him a little bit difficult to watch. I think he gets better as he goes along. Right. looking forward to that. I wondered whether that's what my experience would be. Spoilers. Yeah. But one of the things I do like here is the relationship that is built between him and Ida. And I think Claire Rush booked as an excellent job. And, you know, we've seen it earlier in the season with the love interest with Madame Pompadour. But here it's not a love interesting. It's just more of a companion role. And I really like the 2 of them together and it's quite immediate like their sort of intellectual sort of bases that they're forming their friendship on. You were saying that, um, one of the things is, like, this is the big two parter. Like, and I do agree with that. I tend to find in this era of Russell T. Davies is that I actually like the 2nd two-part as more than the 1st 2 parties in every season. It's not the same for you. I know probably Nathan, but I prefer this over the Rise of the Cyberman. I prefer the empty child 2 parter over, um, aliens of London. Sorry, I always forget the name of that. And even next year, I prefer the 2nd 2 parter over the Dalek one and in the 4th year, I prefer the library one over the Santarian one. I think I prefer the library one over the Santarian one, but I think that the 22 parters play a different role, don't they? We get a big kind of event early in the season. But it's always said on earth. It tends to have like a returning monster or a marquee monster although the 1st one, obviously, doesn't. And it tends to be a bit lighter in tone, whereas the 2nd two parter tends to be a bit more sombre and a bit more serious, I think. And so, depending on what your taste in Doctor Who is. you're going to like one of those sort of more than the other. And you know, I think I remember reading an interview with Russell at some point where he pointed out the fact that you have, you know, a big rollicking adventure early on to keep everyone interested and they talked about the fact that the 2nd 2 parts tends to be darker, but he made a comment saying, anyone can be dark, dark's easy. And that really stuck with me. I thought, yeah, it would be easy to make all doc 2 like that, but it's nice that it's not. Yeah, yeah, I think I agree. So the Dr. and Rose arrive and they're immediately kind of annoying. Yes, they are annoying. There's something about that 1st scene where they come out of the TARDIS and have a joke about the fact that they're about to be in a Doctor Who adventure, which makes them very slappable. Yeah, that's right. Should we go or should we just get back in and go away? Yeah, and it's one of the few times, there's a few times in this episode where Billy does a forced laughter thing and that's not her usual performance style. So, I mean, I have a theory about their performance in this story. Oh really? When was this filmed? It's last. So it's her last episode. Correct. And do you think that maybe that's why? absolutely. I think maybe there was a little bit of kind of holiday fever setting in, you know, last day of school kind of thing. But also, I think that David and Billy were so chummy in real life that that's seeping into the performances here. Was tooth and claw also filmed quite late? No, early. Okay. No, because that's the other one where that sort of relationship is a bit grady. Well, I think it's an intentional thing, and I think that, you know, the relationship between David and Billy kind of seeps into something that is sort of intended to be there. I think we're supposed to feel a little bit uncomfortable with how smug they are. Yeah, and smug is the word for it. And I think it's there in the racing. I think the performance amps it up a little bit. If a lot of these scenes were played down a little bit more, then it would be fine. But the performance is like they always say about doing comedy in Doctor Who. I think it was Douglas Adams. You know, the actors see a funny line and they bring a comedy interpretation to it, whereas no, the funny line should just stand. It feels like this. If some of it just stood by itself, it would be fine. But that chumminess and that smugness is being ramped up. The actors are kind of leaning into it a bit too. Absolutely. And then we get the oud advancing on them saying we must feed. And, you know, it's our internal cliffhanger. So these sort of scary monsters are advancing on the doctor and Rose and they're going to eat them and, you know, both the doctor and Rose are panicking, then opening credits. And can I just say it looks like you'd have already fed a big bowl of spaghetti. But it's this whole thing. fake out. Yeah, but it certainly puts in your mind as the viewer that, well maybe they're not quite as friendly as all that, you know, yeah foreshadowing. I think it works actually quite well. When I 1st was rewatching this, and we come back from the closing credits, and the Oud sort of looks at his translation ball and then shakes it to get it working again properly, and then says we must feed you if you are hungry, which seems like a very improbable thing for anyone to want to say. But it does foreshadow the fact that the ood start to say like scary and off-putting things all the way through is an indication that something's going wrong. So it's sort of a sort of daggy joke, I think, but it eventually gets justified by what ends up happening with the od. And the odes are such a brilliant design. I mean, they look great. They're easily imitatable in the schoolyard. You know, just have to be spaghetti face and, you know, hold your hand up and do a bit of a wiggle. Have a ball in your hand. Absolutely. You know, they're made to be played in the school ground. But they're rubber masks at the end of the day. And yet the rubber masks can do 2 things. They can look really quite sweet and innocent when they're batting their eyelids and, you know, talking to Rose. And then when they get the old pink eye and become the spawn of the devil, they're really quite menacing. think they're amazingly good. So they, there must be an animatronic mask, I think, because there's eyelids and, and there are facial expressions, and they're very deliberately decided, I think, after the experience of the Slovene, not to have a mask that requires lip syncing to dialogue because that was never particularly successful with the Slovene masks, but here, because their mouths are sort of fringed in tentacles, and because they're not really speaking, they actually look really great. And they've got a lot of sort of swarfiga or KY jelly or something over those tentacles. So they're super kind of gross. In fact, about time, which is super negative about these episodes for some reason. Nobody's perfect. Well, what they say is, do you really want a waiter who is sort of constantly drooling to serve your food? Absolutely, I do. Have you seen remains of the day? With the butler with the drippy nose into the sandwiches. He's the ood prototype. But we didn't originally have the ood. I think this is something that you know about, Peter. Yes, it was, I think, in the earliest days. It was meant to be the sledine. Really? Yes. I mean this is very early days. It's sort of the same reason that you bring the ice warriors back. You know, you've got these giant fibreglass things in a storage compartment somewhere in the BBC and you want to reuse them. It would be cheap to reuse them and it's why they appear a few times in the 1st series of Sarah Jane Adventures, for instance. Yeah, and let's not forget, the Celine made a big impact. They didn't always work, especially in their 1st story, but you know, they were one of the takeaways from the 1st season. So when this episode was being written, they would have been, you know, big news. Yeah. So the idea was that they were Slovene that were kind of down on their luck and it hired themselves out to a human expedition, I think. But I do think that the problem with a sabine here would be that they're a little bit too comfortable. We've seen them a few times they're funny and having the ood, who are funny, I think. They're great characters. Yeah, yeah, but they are also super alien and not very much like anything we've seen before. I'm just thinking ahead thinking how the hell would they get through any ventilation shots? Oh, that's true. Also, like at the beginning here. And throughout this episode. I think one of the most stunning things are the visual effects, the planet's surface, the actual wind swept look, and when they open up the dome to look at the black hole, it's amazing what the visual effects are 18 months after the show started again. Yeah. You know, the sets themselves are a little bit more modern. I mean, you think about the number of bases under siege that we've actually seen in Doctor Who. And so having sets that are visually sort of complex and interesting to look at, particularly those corridor sets. I think are really good. The lighting behind the panels sort of flashing in sequence. Yeah, I'm not sure about habitation area 3, whether that's quite so good. There's a bit too many sort of flats and things in there. But that main control area where Zach finds himself for most of the time is also really, really good. There's a real sort of sense of, you know, they're solid, you know those doors seem really kind of solid and they're a huge feature and flimsiness. like you could believe that they're they're a flat pack. And there's even throwaway references. I mean, the fact that door frames can be security level ace or whatever it is, and then the one into control is 10, so it's harder to break into. It's these throwaways that make it a completely believable world. And can I say, I think it's actually the most sophisticated and complete design work that we've had so far in the new series. And they do some nice long shots to be able to capture everything on the set. I kudos to Ed Thomas for this, the designer. He's someone who never saw a Cardiff backstreet or a paper factory that he didn't like to turn into something, but he really went to town on this one. And the whole look of the story is just fantastic. I think you can believe in it as a credible world in itself. You know, even when the doctor and Rose come out at the very start. There's the wind whipping outside, the doors talking, the flashing lights of the panels, the sirens, whenever one of the earthquakes hits, it all works together. And I think, actually, my old, my old friend and editor and housemate, Gary Gillis, said that the difference between a great Doctor 2 story and a bad Doctor 2 story is the credibility of the world that it creates. So robots of death, for instance, fantastic, or Andrasani major you totally believe there's world out there, car fell in time lash. Maybe not. Whereas here, you believe the world. It's perfectly crafted. I think there is a little bit of fridge logic. I actually spent my 2nd viewing of this wondering how they got all this stuff here in that little sort of spaceship. Flatback. But it really, really does look good. And I think Russell has said in the series Bible that he didn't want there to be colonists, that he wanted to use the word pioneers, and these people are obviously not colonists. They're not trying to settle the place. But he wanted to make sure that space seemed scary and difficult and dangerous, and not to take space for granted. You know, in the late 70s, we had so many spaceships and so many space spaces and all of that sort of thing, and everyone was sort of rather blasé about travelling through space. But having these people be in danger and have to be brave, to be involved in it, I think, you know, sells it and makes them more likeable. Very true. And I mean, even later in this episode, Rose actually says space travel is tough. You know, there's no anti-gravity, no teleport, which is what, you know, as viewers, we're used to the Star Trek world, everything. So easy and it just, I think, reinforces perhaps a bit of a difference with Doctor Who compared to other science fiction shows at various times. All the grimy metallic world of the liberator. The grimy, metallic cocktail lounge. I think that's an interesting point because the series goes through cycles with its approach to space. I interviewed Jamie Matheson, who wrote Oxygen for series 10 and he made the very same point. He said that Stephen Moffatt, when commissioning the story, said that he felt that space had become too safe, and Stephen used an example from his own work, which was River song floating through space in the air corridor in the time of angels. And he said, no, let's get back to the dangers of space and the fact that one wrong step could kill you, which is why all the characters in that episode are so on the edge. The thing about this is that the visual design inside and outside is just so beautiful. I mean, they do rip off for Lord of the Rings a bit, I think, with the whole black hole look. But even with them entering night shift, you know, it's such a real place, you know, and and that, I just, and sitting here people just thinking in my head, that windy landscape, you know when storage room, what is it, one to 6 or whatever, fall into the chasm, like those things are just etched into my mind, but backing all that up is the score, the musical score for this episode, which I just find quite haunting at times. absolutely beautiful. I mean, when the dog is best work, I think. When the doctor, well, actually there's 2 things. When they look at it, the scarlet system. absolutely haunting music. And then when they also descend down in the pit, or what is it down into the earth. Yeah, yeah. There's also beautiful. The music is epic on the descent of that capsule. Yeah. And I just say they're going, this is utterly beautiful. Originally, I did nominate to actually do these episodes, listeners you know, I like to do ones that are my favourite and or the opposite end of the spectrum, and this season I've actually gotten neither, which is really interesting because my favorite's actually tooth and claw, and my least favourite is fear her. So to get something in between, like I was kind of going, oh, dear you know, I can't just sing praises or I can't just rubbish it. This is going to be tough. But I just sat here and I always, I've always liked this. Like, I always thought it was very good. It is along with truth and claw and the girl in the fireplace, my favourites of the season. So really strong stuff, but it's the visual stuff and that music throughout this episode that I just underscores everything, how terrific it actually is. This episode feels like it's had a very long term meeting, because everything is on board. The music, the design of the Ude, the sets, what the characters are wearing and the way that they interact with each other. It all comes together to create that credible world that I was talking about. And Todd, the exterior shots that you're talking about with, I think there's one of scooty working on something outside when they change over to night shift and the antenna is turning around behind her and the wind is whipping. It's got a very strong sense of place. You know, exactly, you know, it feels like a real place in someone doing work. But then after that, with Toby outside, standing in that weird way like he's not comfortable in his own body and Scooty looking at him through the window, I mean, that might be the contender for the best visual of the season. Let's talk about Toby, shall we? We've had a few little hints of horror with the oud saying sort of weirdly inappropriate things for a moment, but no one seems to register them and we dismiss them, but quite early on in the episode, we have Toby in his quarters doing some archeology. And we suddenly hear the terrifying voice of TV's Gabriel Wolf. An absolutely chilling scene, and you get you get the little teaser of it beforehand where Toby's walking through the corridor and I think, is it the computer that says something weird at that time, the door computer? And every time Toby is freaked out, it's shot in the same way. It's shot from every conceivable angle and then the director cuts between every conceivable angle to make it feel like he's being watched from everywhere. I think that also sort of sells the idea of being disoriented as well. He'll use it again next week to reflect the doctor's very quick thought processes as well. But it is a good trick. It really works. And also having the camera watching him. So having him shot from behind while he's working. And that thing, that it's a very simple thing. There's no actual horror in it, but that don't turn around or you'll die is so frightening. It's, I think, the grimmest scene of certainly up until this point in New Doctor Who. There's nothing quite as putently frightening as that. You know, that whole thing of like, if you look at me, you will die, that constant reference to you're going to die. Yeah. It's quite full on for us or Dr. 2. there's a twitchy energy about Toby that makes it work. His look is really good too, because he is he's attractive, you know, he is attractive, but he's weird looking as well. Yeah, and he hardly ever cracks a smile. He's always worried looking even before any of this goes down. Yeah, in fact, it's funny, isn't it, that he is a very good looking man, but he seems to be really, really unsure of himself and a little bit sort of introverted. Insecure Yeah. No, that dialogue is, yeah, you know, doomed to turn around. And then the other one is like, I think the computer says he is awake and the phone call is he is awake and that keeps coming coming back, you know. Oh, that one line, the beast in his armies shall rise from the pit to wage war against God. That's potent. So that's an ood talking to Billy. yeah. Yes. Yes, yes. So rise from the pit to make war. Sounds like a Sonya lyric. Oh, Lord. Yeah, it's interesting, but it's interesting how that everybody just dismisses all these little glitches in the dialogue. But of course, then, of course, Rose gets the phone call and flings her phone across the... Yeah, well, she's already she's already had the ood, say something really odd to her as well. And I also think what's really effective about the way that Toby's possession works is that business, about the writing disappearing from the shards of pottery and then appearing on his hands. And it's a wonderful surprise because he behaves like he's seen Doctor Who before and he takes his latex gloves off and looks at the back of his hands and kind of is a little bit relieved. Oh, okay, so it hasn't gone onto my hands. And then he turns his hands around and they're all on the palms of his hands. And then eventually on his face, and it's super effective. It looks amazing. We were talking about Planet Evil before. It's actually very Professor Sorensen, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, it really is. Yeah. So the other person who gets a really kind of terrifying scene, and who does appear to be properly freaked out by the things that the computer and the doors are saying, is Scooty, who we've had very little time to get to know. She's had very few lines by this point, but she's pretty and young and kind of super likeable. She's the intern, so we know that she's sort of inexperienced and stuff. She's cheerful in a way that a lot of the others aren't. Yeah, yeah, she's she does seem super nice. And there is that scene where she starts to freak out. And that moment where she's looking out and sees Toby outside and the glass starts to break. The way he's beckoning her out and she's almost on the influence. I mean, we've seen dozens of people do that performance in Doctor Who before. I don't think anyone's done it better, the way that she's stretching out her arm and she's fixed on him, but she sort of casts a little look to her arm as if to go, what am I doing? And that's when the spell breaks. It's a great performance. She really sells it. I think Toby's really frightening in that scene as well. We don't see him smile. He doesn't smile in that scene? He does. We don't see him smile before or after that, but that smile is frightening. It's freaky And when it goes wrong, the smile melts off his face immediately. It's yeah, it's really creepy. But yes, her performance is fantastic in that moment and then trying to get out of there. And then, of course, she's the 1st character killed off. And, you know, we get to see that her floating away, which is really quite heartbreaking, really. And you know as viewers, what's to come, you know, not everybody's going to survive. This is not going to be great. And, of course, David Tennant gets to go. I'm sorry, I'm so sorry. I like his delivery of that line though. He really means it there and he's not overdoing it. And the thing is that in these bases under siege full of white people with last names, people die all the time and no one really has much time to care about it. It's just a thing that happens to up the stakes in classic Doctor Who. But here, everyone's looking for her. We can't find her, you know, we found her shoes in habitation. Yeah, yeah, we go there. She's not to be found, and then the doctor sees her. And that scene that we mentioned before, where the scarlet system has died and is being pulled into the black hole, just prefigures what happens to Scooty. We've seen a whole civilisation be, you know, drawn into the black holes, gravitational field, and destroyed, and now we see it happening to this character that we really like. And when Ida says she was 20. She was 20 years old. It's so touching, like having proper reactions from characters who we can believe in to a death like this sells it so well. Some of the dialogue in this story is a little bit, what's the word? It's a little bit up on naturalistic dialogue. And so when I was talking about the scarlet system, she says ladies and gentlemen, we have witnessed its passing, which I do believe is something that I would say, but because the story is big and it has big stakes. It lends itself to this slightly amped up dialogue, and it's beautiful in a lot of cases. The moment, in fact, when the doctor says, can you leave the roof open, this before scooty dies, can you leave the roof open? I promise I won't go mad. And Ida just says to him, how would you know? I love that In fact, I love the fact that when Scooty's floating off, they close the roof. That's when they close the roof. I mean, it's because she left the roof open so the doctor could look at the scarlet system that the doctor sees her body floating off into space, but they close it because they can't bear to watch it anymore. It's really well done. I think the confidential has the actor in a swimming pool. Yeah, yeah, which is a good way out of it. And as you were saying earlier, told beautiful music in that secret, it's just amazing. So, my Anna Buring, who plays Scooty, is for fact fans, FYI, as they said in the olden days, actually dated Rory Jennings, Tommy from the Idiot's Lantern, for quite a while. So there we go. Something about people meeting on Doc 2. So we've heard. So yeah, they would have been very cute little pixie people. One of the things that I picked up in this episode, which I didn't pick up originally, was there's a piece of dialogue that says the Tartis has fallen to the heart of the planet and the drills are heading the same way. It's a plot point for next week, but it's just something that the 1st time around when all of the Tartars fell away. I just kind of went, oh, you know, it's only fallen like, you know 500 metres or whatever, but it seems to have fallen a long, long way, you know? And that chasm is obviously very, very big. Yeah, 10 miles deep. That's right. We'll talk about this next week, but there's the usual accusation that Russell's stories don't set their resolution up properly and people say, oh, it's a deusex marketer or whatever, but this is at least kind of set up. You know, it falls down to the centre of the planet or deep within the planet and there's a drill heading deep within the planet. We'll talk more about that resolution, I think, next week though. What I do like is that it gives rise to that conversation in habitation area 3 between the doctor and Rose. The one about him having to buy a house and was it get a mortgage or something like that? Yeah, yeah, carpets. What I kind of like about it is we have already talked about how the doctor and rose are a little bit too comfortable with one another, but they're not that comfortable here. No, they come. I think the doctor's comfortable as friends, but beyond that, who knows? And I think I'm in 2 minds about this thing because I think it's a very well written scene, and I think the performances are, you know, just off enough with each other that it really sells it. I think we're meant to be quite invested in the fact that the Dr and Rose might be in love with each other as a fan. I'm not particularly, but I think because the series had very wide and broad mainstream appeal at this point, I think maybe the wider audience who weren't necessarily Doctor Who afficionados were invested in the Doctor and Rose. So this was quite important for them. Yeah, as a love story for this season. I find it really interesting watching this series back, which I will say that I've liked this series a lot more than what I originally thought about it. But I do find from episode episode one moment, they seem to be in love, and the next, their chums, depending on who's written it and where it is placed in the season. I do feel that at times. I don't necessarily know if I get that feeling here. I guess I look at the dialogue, you know, talking about, you know my home planet's gone, the TARDIS has grown, and then, you know the promises you made to Jackie to get Rose back. I'm kind of listening to all the dialogue as opposed to a love story, but I can totally get it, that people would see this as a love story at this point. But I just think that the relationship clearly sort of falters at some point. It only goes so far and both of them end up sort of slightly embarrassed. Rose has pushed the doctor a little bit too far. She's tentative about saying it might be nice to get a mortgage together because she doesn't know how he'll react. And his reaction is to kind of try and pretend he hasn't heard it and to get all embarrassed and then she immediately gets embarrassed about having made the suggestion. Yeah, yeah. So thank God for the phone call. That's right. That's it. Thank goodness the beast knew when to when to place that call. Thank goodness, I was a waging war against God. I think also told what you were saying about, you know, sometimes it feels like a romance and sometimes it doesn't. It depends whose point of view it's coming from. If you get rose pushing the scene. It's very definitely that romantic feel. If you get the doctor pushing it. It's a friendship and you get that all through the season. It's actually quite a nice arc for them. I think that we said earlier that the girl in the fireplace is a sort of weird exception to it. It's sort of untouched by Russell. And so it is very much, you know, Rose is paired up with Mickey while the doctor goes off and has a girlfriend. It's kind of like, well, he already had a girlfriend sort of didn't he? So, but certainly the relationship is sort of amazingly close. Yes. And it's always good to separate close friendships. So we've got the doctor going down with Ida. and Rose staying up above with the rest of the crew as things begin to happen with the oud. I want to talk a bit more about the oud. Yeah, I love the fact that they really are trying to world build them as, you know, potential, like they are essentially slaves, but they talk about friends of the Oud, and, you know, Danny's got a lot to say about their telepathic fields and how he sort of treats them. I really like his character and the way he's sort of performed throughout all of that sort of techno babble to do with, you know what they should be feeling or not. Yeah, yeah, basic five, basic 10. He's really likeable. Except, though. Like, I remember originally being a bit worried by the oud, and given that Rose is worried by them having slaves as well, I think we're meant to be worried by that, you know, human beings shouldn't have slaves. And the friend of the Ud line, which actually comes from Scooty. It does. It's a great conversation between Danny and Scooty. been set up to be the most likeable people and they're like, oh, they're just a slave race. And I do love friends of the Oude, because it's such a pertuy era kind of thing, isn't it? Like friends of the earth, you know, like those terrible people in colony in space or whatever. Isn't they friends of Delta Magna or something like that as well? they may well be. You're quite right. So that's what we always call kind of, you know, leftist pressure groups in the Doctor Who universe. They're always friends of something. But I think the thing is that we are made more uncomfortable by Danny because Danny is actually really super horrible in the way that he talks about the oud. So he says they're so stupid. you know, he's really dismissive and unpleasant about them. And so it's really kind of off-putting to have a likeable character be so openly racist, I think. Absolutely. And he's ethics committee. Yeah, yeah. ethics committee. I think that's super funny. That's super clever. So the ethics committee, they're about how do we treat our slaves you know? But also, he's the ethics committee. Is he a committee? Yeah, he's the only commit. that's it. He is the only member. Yeah, I mean, more of that next week, I think, because I think that something very deliberate is happening here and that this story fails properly to address it, and it makes Planet Viewed in series 4 absolutely necessary. This story fails at nothing. Yeah, maybe. There are 2 other characters on this base. There is the 2 security guards? Yeah, they're the red shirts. The female and the male one. They're not dead yet, are they? We're an episode one. No, I just need to say that the guard with the mullet. He has a package on him. Really? I haven't noticed. I'm just going to say that. I'm just going to say it, you know, there you go. It was brought flat packed from a... I think he looks like Bellboy's distant descendant. Yeah, yeah No, there was just a shot of him standing there like you know, well, and I just noticed it. Thanks, people. This is why our listeners tune in. Can I give a shout out to those 2 actually, those 2 red shirts? Because Guy Redshirt, who gets done by nude while Danny stands by looking gormlessly, and then later girl redshirt. Also, Dumbai Nude. Well, Denny stands by looking formlessly. They're both really good. They don't have a single line, so they're background artists and they're both acting their socks off in every scene. It's a funny decision. isn't it? Because we do get to know everyone really very well and it does seem like it's just our main characters and those 2 on the base. There's no one else. I'd say even Mr. Jefferson, like for a lot of this, is in the background in this episode, is not quite to the forefront. Certainly towards the end of the episode more so. He's very good too. And he's really good, especially in, well, next week. Yeah, it's interesting that they are the other 2 characters, but they are characters, you know? Like they come across, like what you're saying, the performances are good enough that you, you know, they're done for, but you know that they're there. It's not like, you know, other stories where it's like, well whoever's just died. Well, in fact, they kind of are the people who just die and no one really cares and they won't ever be mentioned again. But you know, you actually do care. I mean, I think when Girl Red Shirt dies, maybe not in this episode, maybe it's the start of the next, is actually quite a sad horrible moment because she's been quite nice up to that point. You think, no, she just opens the door. There's a nude ready to ball up. So we have our 2nd cliffhanger of the season. at the end of this episode and it's another one of those kind of throw everything at the screen cliffhangers where a whole bunch of people are all in slightly different danger in different places and everything sort of ramps up to this sort of massive, giant, scary finale. What do you think? It's an amazing cliffhanger. I think it might be the best build. I mean, certainly of all of the Russell 2 parties. Well, yes, because we've got the doctor and I are opening the, I call it the pit, right? Yeah, they call it the pit. And that camera angle is amazing. So coming up on them at the end. Yeah, yeah. So something is in the pit, kind of, and it looks like it's coming up to get them. And then at the same time, we've got sort of ood attacking people. Where the Legion of the Beast, isn't it? Yeah, and Toby's taken over again. Is that right? He, I think the influence has just left him and gone into the Oude. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, they're all in deadly danger. Yeah, it's funny that in fact, the final shot of the Cliffhanger isn't the we're all in deadly danger thread. It is the what on earth is going to happen next, thread. And I think there's enough pace. The music is absolutely kind of selling it. But it's always been my favourite sort of cliffhanger where it's not how are they going to get out of this because we all know they're going to get out of this, but what on earth is going to happen next? What is there in that pier? And the villain actually cackles evilly as the end credits come in. It's great. I talk about traditional who? Hasn't the male security card just been killed too? Doesn't he die at the end of this? He, yeah, he dies when, um, when they're in the new habitat and then Danny runs away and joins the others. Yeah, that is now, isn't it? It doesn't make it to me. Because my notes just take massive extra dead. Make of that what you will. Well done, sir. It looks like we're going to be spending the next week or so staring fruitlessly over the edge of this giant hole in the ground. Join us next week to find out what emerges from the Satan Pit. Spoiler alert, nothing. In the meantime, you can find us at FlightthroughEntirety.com flight through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts, and at FTE podcast on Twitter. You can also find us on our other podcasts, our series 11 flashcast Jody and Tara, and our James Bond and James Bond adjacent commentary podcast, Bondfinger. They're at Jodyinterterra.com and bondfinger.com respectively, as well as on Twitter, Facebook, and Apple Podcasts. Until next time, the Beast in his Army shall rise from the pit to make war against God. So you'll probably want to wear some kind of hat or flak jacket when you next go to church. Thank you very much for listening and good night. Good night. He is awake. Promise I won't go mad. See you soon. That was Flight for Entirety, starring Todd Bilby, Nathan Audley and Peter Griffiths, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, strings performance by Jane Orberg. This episode, a very long tone meeting, was recorded on the 23rd of February 2019, and released on the 5th of May. This is the 2nd time in the series we've done this, but if anyone knows this episode's uncredited Mail Guard, please ask him to get in touch with Todd Bealby, Care of Sanctuary Bay 6, the Planet Crop Tour in the Stellion Galaxy. I think we could end that there. What do you think? With another giant dick joke from Cod, as usual. I must be channelling somebody else from this podcast. You've got super relaxed over the past 4 years. Oh, yeah, back when you were back when you were talking about how that monoptera was so sexy. I wasn't around for that. I don't know what you're talking about Oh sorry. What was your 1st story? Terror of the Autons. Terror of the autumn. Ter of the Autom. Hitting on Mr. Farrell, senior, were you? No, I prefer the doll. Mr. Watt's his name. with the Northern accent. All right, Mr. Fu Pang. Mr. Fu Pang. The American delegate. Mr. Foolpang. Mr. Fu Pang, you're a Chinese dragon. What? Mr. Fu Pang? He's like a stuffed vinyl Chinese dragon though, isn't he? Yeah, he's staying to get one proper shot of him, and that's after Mishra Fulpang, has been dispatched. All right, I've got a long speech. Just a frrill pang? I might fall asleep. Here goes. All right. Just pretend I'm Peter Capoldi at the end of twice upon a time. That's fine, I'm fine with that. I'm going to give a long speech and throw myself around the room. I can't be here until next year. I'll pretend that you're Jodie Whitaker at any point of execution. She never gets along. Oh, she does too. Let me explain what the solar tract is. Because you care. Well, dear listener, it looks like we're going to be spending...