Most Punchable Moment

Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety the only Doctor Who podcast that's much more than an MP3 file on your phone. It's a beacon of hope and fortitude and courage, and it's a beacon of love. I'm Nathan. I'm Brendan. And I'm Dan. This week we head back to a happier time, a time before Trump and Brexit, and a time before the official London 2012 Olympics logo was actually unveiled. Someone upstairs is sharpening their Derwent Lakelands, which means that it's also a time to fear her. So, Dan, you're actually used to talking on podcasts about Doctor Who stories that you really love. Is that right? That's right. Our podcasts are new to who we generally just dive into stories that we have loved for a long time or our favourite ones or ones that we think. are good entry points, but for that reason, we never get to really be mean to anything and now I'm excited to be on your podcast and I get to pan something terribly. So thank you so much. So this isn't an all-time classic for you? It's not, it's not, it's not in my top 10. It's probably not in my top 200 or 300. It's not like offensively bad. It's just, it's just, it's a lot of middle, I think Brennan said earlier, it's just a lot of metal and it's right in the middle. It's quite it's a bit flabby. It's one of these ones that when DWM does, you know, it's massive pole, like the Mighty 200 or whatever or the 50th anniversary pole it tends to be the new series story that finds itself down the bottom. Now, that's not usually a good indication because those poles are essentially rubbish, I think. But it's easy to understand why it finds its way there. I released on my YouTube channel. My bottom 5 Doctor Who stories and I gave honourable mentions to doctors who didn't end up in the bottom 5 and fear her, for me, is the worst David Tennant story. Wow. However, it's not the one I enjoy the least. That would probably be the end of time. But this, I just feel, it has loads of good ideas, but it's just all pulling in different directions. And of course, it has a very troubled production history. This slot was originally meant to be a story written by Stephen Fry set in the 1920s and the idea was when they realised, 0 my god we've got Stephen Fry. They promised him lots of lovely money for special effects and whatnot, but then decided to put it as production block 6 when all the money had run out. So Russell T. Davies said to him, look, we can't afford to do it this year. Can we rework it for next year series? And Stephen Fry said, yeah, sure. At which point Russell said, oh, but by the way, we have a completely different companion and the doctor companion dynamic has to be different because she loves him, but he doesn't love her. And Stephen Fry said, I'm very sorry. I suddenly have all the other literal things I do want television to do. Can you imagine? can you imagine how good Stephen Fry written story might have been might have been great. Yeah. I think we've got his non-union Mexican equivalent in Mark Gatus probably. this is true. So Matthew Graham was and this story were sort of an overflow script after the, after the scripts that fell through last year such as Paul Abbott script in place of Boomtown. Russell Julie got permission from the BBC to overcommission. Right. But what I find very interesting looking at the production history of this. Is Matthew Graham's original idea was the Doctor and Rose would land on an alien planet, which was entirely monochrome. So the leaves, the trees, the plants, everything was monochrome because there was a single solitary alien on this planet who had discovered that just like light and heat, beauty was a form of energy, and he could syphon off beauty. And you just know that that script is going to end with Billy Piper strapped to a table. And I don't know, God, who plays, let's say whoever plays Lestrade in Sherlock. What's his name? Rupert Graves. Yeah, Rupert Graves, you know, attempting to do a Vulcan mind meld just as David Tennant gnashes his teeth at him to stop him. You know, it would have been probably a bit rubbish. But instead, this idea developed. But almost uniquely, Russell said, just start working on the script. I really love your ideas. And I wonder if that's part of the unevenness that there was never a scene by scene breakdown to work on the pacing. So, I mean, Matthew Graham is huge though, isn't he? His life on Mars and ashes to ashes, and he'll come back to the show in series 6 for the gangers two-parter, the name of which currently escapes me. Oh, the rebel flesh and the almost people... Yeah, I... I haven't watched it for a while. He also wrote Biker Grove, which is like a show. I think it was on BBC when I was a kid about, I can't remember what it was about, but it was a kid show. I remember that. So he's huge, isn't he? He's a big deal. Like he's like getting Paul Abbott the previous year. Yeah, people know who he is. Yeah, this does feel like a really like they run out of money and they had to do a low budget story with very few effects and just on that street, which seems like it's a set, but I can't I can't tell. Is it a set streak? It's not. It is actually a suburban Cardiff, not only that, but the house that Chloe's house is a real house. And something I do want to praise this story for is the direction and especially the cinematography and lighting direction in the house is brilliant. The scenes in the kitchen where they're talking and I was watching this going, I don't think this is a set and I looked it up and it's not a set. They're just, it looks like they're just using natural light. It's television, so I know they're not. Yeah. But they go for this verisimilitude of sort of a almost a documentary approach. Now, have either of you seen something called Ghost Watch. I've heard of it, and I think we have referred to it on the podcast before. I don't think so. I don't think so. 1992, it was a 90 minute one-off drama about a haunted house, but it was produced like this was a live TV special. So you had Craig Charles, Michael Parkinson, Sarah Green from Attack of the Sidemen, and her husband, Mike, whose surname I forget, playing themselves as TV hosts looking into this haunted house. What? And there's actually imagery from that that's borrowed here especially Rose being drawn into the cupboard, that happens to Sarah Green in Ghostwatch as well. There were massive complaints about Ghost Watch because there were some people who thought it was a documentary and scared the crap out of them. Basically, if you missed the 1st 5 minutes and you didn't have a TV guide to hand, it looked real. Because just before, you know, with the continuity announcement it's like, oh, you know, a new film from Stephen Volk. And in the TV guide, it was, you know, this is a mockumentary. But yeah, it was also the same kind of terrace housing sort of thing. Watch Ghostwatch instead, by all means. But I think another problem with this one is it's very heavily derivative. So it's derivative of Ghostwatch is derivative of sapphire and steel. It's derivative of invasion of the body snatchers, specifically the 1978 version, Matthew Graham said, was a big influence with how he considered the possession of Chloe, the exorcist, you know? And I think it's one of these things that references those things but in a sort of ready player one way of going, hey, these are things you like. I mean, even on its own terms, though, like the idea isn't terrible, is it? The idea of like an ordinary suburban street. I mean, it's in 2012, but that's only really for the sake of the Olympic thing at the end. It is basically a present-day suburban street where something terrifying is happening. And it's all set in the kind of houses that the viewers themselves are living in. But I just don't think it sells the horror well enough. And you can see them trying. You know, you've got Chloe as a sort of shadowy figure in the window. You've got the brilliant Nina Sasania being scared of her a little bit like that famous Twilight Zone episode. But the music doesn't make it scary, and I actually don't think the direction makes it scary enough either. So it's a little bit kind of, you know, it's kids TV. It does really feel like a kid, like this one's written for kids and you're right about the street. It does feel like they're trying to do that thing that they often do on Doctor Who, which is to make the ordinary scary. So you know, like when they made autons ter policemen. It's kind of like it makes that makes some all policemen terrifying to kids on the street the next day, you know? But this street's not really. Yeah, there's sort of some creepy music and then there's an old lady, you know, warning everyone of how some scary things, but it's just, it doesn't really work. doesn't really sell, does it? No, I think there's something really massively artificial about that opening scene, whether a lot of people standing in the street expositing. And there's all these union jacks hanging in the windows. That is very weird. And then, yeah, there's the sort of the chabby dad with his 2 kids playing football. Yeah. But I, and the old lady, you know, like that, that is a kids' TV performance. She's huge. apparently, but I didn't buy her for a 2nd because Edna Dore? Yeah, that's right. She was in EastEnders, I remember. Yeah, she was Moe. Moe in EastEnders. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, she's, you know, clearly a talented actor, but she is going for a sort of a kid's TV reading of what's happening and the dialogue doesn't help. Like, it just isn't in any way naturalistic. I can't imagine Russell writing that sort of dialogue for kind of normal people. And there were also big cuts to that sort of scene. The fingers on lip scene. There were big cuts in the arguments leading up to fingers on lips where Kel, the council worker actually vocalises these words you're giving me a complex. That's not something people really say. I will praise. I really like the character of Kel. Yeah, he's great. He's someone who really loves tar backing. I feel where he's like smoothing it over. He's like as smooth as a baby's bottom. And yeah, I really adore that. He's an almost Avengers style eccentric in this story, you know. Council workers, especially in the UK, have this reputation of, you know, you need 10 of them to repair a road, one to repair the road and tend to lean on the things, and he's never just leaning on something, like he's running around. He's doing all this work and he's really, really proud of it. You know, he is kind of a shining, a shining beacon of hope. I love, I love how when, is it Rose is trying to pickaxe the street and he keeps saying council, like, keeps saying, cancel. I'm going to report you to the council. Yeah, that's a council street. a council piccan. It's a council van, you know. really enjoyed him a lot. He was great. Yeah, there was a bit I noticed in that rant. And I, I, I'm not sure I can quite get it right because I rewound it and I, I'm still not sure I quite got, got it. But when he's saying, no, no, come out of the van. That belongs to the council. Oh, now you've picked up a council pickaxe. I think he then sometimes said something like, Actually, those are my tools. That my pickaxe, but it's in the council bag. Well, he gets to be kind of Billy's companion when the doctor's indisposed. I mean, he's around helping her out and I think he's really good. Yeah. Like, you did it. You did it. What did you do? Another thing this story sort of touches on. Again, it doesn't develop, but there's sort of an attitude of nimbism. Which is not in my backyard. And we see a lot of that here in Sydney, like with the debate over the last 874 years about the 2nd airport. Like everyone wants a 2nd airport, just not near them. And all these residents are sort of complaining, oh, yeah, yeah the council's coming here and doing this. And even Kel says, look, the only reason this street's been tarted up is that the torch is going to pass by the end of it. Yeah. So you know right from the start that there's going to be some kind of Olympic torch scene, because not only did they say that but then it's constantly referenced throughout the episode, they keep banging on about, it's on the TV, in the background all the time, and so you just know something's going to happen, and I cannot, we're skipping ahead, but I cannot believe they actually had the doctor carry the, the Olympic torch. That is ridiculous. It is so ridiculous. I do have to say, though, the way it ends up happening, it is kind of slightly better than the way we could have had it because the reason the street is called Dame Kelly Holmes Close. Dame Kelly Holmes twice gold medal winner for the UK in 2004, I think it was, in Athens. Right. 81500 metres. She was asked to be in the show. to be the torch runner. And the only reason she couldn't was, she was doing Dancing on Ice with Bonnie Langford and John Barraman. But that would mean that Dame Kelly Holmes, one of the great female Olympians would have had to collapse while running, which is her sport and be kind of rescued by the doctor. And this is a story in which, for all its other flaws, it does seek to create 2 very strong female characters in Trish and Chloe. Yeah. I mean, they've been through a lot, and it really struck me this week watching it because, of course, at the time of recording, our current Prime Minister, and probable non-prime Minister by the time this is released, on International Women's Day, which was a few days ago, as we record this, said, words to the effect of it is important to work towards women equality, but women must maintain their place, and that equality must not come at the expense of men. Expensive men. Oh, man. And ended up on CNN. Oh my god. I shared that on Facebook with the point of, now, Prime Minister all you need to say is that you look forward to a time where women are equal to men, to which the Prime Minister responds, yes, but who will the men be equal to? And normally I don't think I would have even thought about, you know, the Kelly Holmes connection and having a female Olympic collapse at having the doctor pick it up. But yeah, just with that context this week. And it's this whole thing of the context when you originally watch it compared to the context of now. I remember when this was 1st on, I really quite enjoyed it. And I think, even though it is my least favourite tenant. I think possibly part of that is that it comes sandwich between The Satan Pit 2 parter, which is excellent. Love and Monsters, which is excellent, and Army of Ghost Doomsday. I actually think it suffers from being in the same season as The Idiot's Lantern as well. Yeah, the Idiot's Lantern is like it's sort of like that every street UK thing and you're dealing with a family. Again with an abusive father, except it's much, much better. Yeah. And it's Eros Lynn doing both episodes as well. And I just don't think that helps. And because the idiot's lantern, like it has a lot more incident. The climax is much more interesting, there's a villain, which this lacks, and the villain is Maureen Lippman, who is incredible. And a lot more Union Jacks as well. Yeah, yeah. For some for sort of a more sensible reason, but it is. It's like another great British event where an alien intervenes. There an abusive father, and it ends with a street party. I mean, there's just too much similar. I do have to say, though, Dan, we are not at sea, they are union flags. And the one you've got there that I can see on the screen is upside down. String me out. String me out. Yeah, I mean, the similarities to idiot's lantern. It's so bizarre, considering that, you know, this is a story that Russell T. Davies took an interest in developing and sort of sent straight to script to have those similarities. I mean, it's not just unfortunate. It's a massive oversight. Yeah. I do have to say it does bring up some interesting comparisons though, because in this story. We don't see any residents of the street visiting one another. You know, they all keep pretty much to themselves. In the idiot's lantern, you know, people are being disappeared and everyone is just sort of, oh, you know, keep calm and carry on and pretend nothing's happening. Whereas in this, everyone's frustrated about it, but no one's talking about it to each other. You know, we've got the situation with Tommy's abusive father which is openly discussed with members of the family. You know, you ought to beat that out of him. Yeah. In the 50s. oh, you know, well that's just expected. Whereas in this story, it's a matter of no one talks about it. Even after the father is gone. I think that's one area where the similarity between the stories is successful because it doesn't, no other sort of underlines, well this is how we should act. It's just kind of, it's just kind of presented as, okay, how far have we come in 60 years? Yeah, because it's such a different time. This is near future, right? which is something I really like. But they do treat it so differently. I do, that's one of the things about this story I did really enjoy is the sort of father subplot, how they sort of, they sort of skate around it a lot, like especially when their mum talks about it. They kind of skate around what he did and what happened and what happened to him and then Nina, so Sonia is so good in this. But she, like she hasn't got a lot to do, often she's just sort of standing around being scared of her daughter and stuff like that. But the bits where they talk about where she talks about the father or there's the confrontation at the end, I think those are the bits where she's best and where they all, they'll do really well. I think it's one of the best parts of the story. I always feel a bit sad that they wasted her on this episode when she is so incredibly good. And she had such chemistry with Tenant in Casanova. She's just terrific in that. And here I kind of think that the story needed a sort of tighter focus, that, you know, there is an attempt to draw a parallel between the isolation that Chloe feels after her father's died and her mother stopped talking about him. But kind of the space alien thing. And the whole episode grinds to a halt for a couple of minutes while the doctor explains its life cycle. And it's life cycle is kind of stupid and it doesn't really have any parallels with, you know, really mean to care about it that much. But like you were saying, yeah, the sort of parallel between the alien stuff can close isolation because of her dad. That's the whole story. That's a good story. Like if you blow those 2 things up to fill the whole story. It would be great. And a lot tighter. And particularly, you know, like the father in the cupboard. I think is that picture, we see it for such a short amount of time and it's so scary. And then the voice is incredibly good. Like, I think that that's really great. But again, it doesn't really properly fit. And, you know, there's this sort of ionic energy or whatever the ion solace projects which does whatever the plot needs it to do. And like that's not necessarily a fault. I mean, I've said before that I think the angels in blink. designed to do exactly what the plot of blink needs them to do. They don't really make sense in themselves. So the father comes to life when the isolus leaves for no sort of readily apparent reason. And I'm not sure what it's doing emotionally for Chloe either. Like we've heard that she has nightmares and that she screams in her nightmares and it becomes clear that that's she's dreaming about her father's mistreatment of her. But it just seems like there's all sorts of bits and pieces around that, but it never sort of coheres into a kind of proper story. And I think a well-directed, properly scary kind of suburban Gothic that was about Trish and Chloe dealing with the aftermath of the father's abuse would have been really good, but maybe they back off it because it's a kid's show or they just don't think the Doctor Who has the dramatic weight for it or something, but it just never coheres around that idea, I think. Yeah, it's all a bit disparate. There's lots of little bits and bobs here and there that are good. But they sort of, maybe they're trying to do too much and it all kind of flies apart a little bit. I do also wonder if this episode's status as a replacement script kind of does in for it because I can imagine, you know, we've got Stephen Fry. This is amazing. Oh, no, we've lost Stephen Fry not to denigrate Matthew Graham at all, but I imagine they were just relieved to have something that was shootable. Because... Just watching it. I, I kind, it's my thing. I kind of make connections and I just think to myself, with a couple of days polishing, you can connect all these disparate elements. So, for instance, Chloe's dad is on a wall in the cupboard. Are you going to do your Brendan head cannon? I think we can make everything. Yeah, excellent. So you've got in the cupboard, Chloe's dad, right? But then literally the other side of the room. You've got all of Chloe in the eyes, Dollar's other drawings. And she says to those drawings, I've put you together. given you friends. I've made you happy. So Chloe and the Isola. So looking out on this street where no one really talks to each other and finding a way for them to be together on the wall and it's still never enough and it's still never enough. But the one person who's not allowed on the wall ever is Chloe's dad. Chloe's dad has to be hidden away, but he still needs to be drawn to get him out of Chloe's head so she can focus on the work. Something else I noticed when I was watching this was early on when Chloe threatens to draw her mother. Chloe's talking to her mother and we see her face fully, but when she says, unless you want me to draw you, her mouth is hidden. And I think that's a conscious choice of who's speaking. You know, it's kind of like Toby and the devil a few weeks ago. Um, and so straight away, with that, you tie together the isolation of modern life, you tie together Chloe's isolation. You tie together why she's drawn dad in the cupboard. You know, as for why does dad come to life, like they have a little bit of ADR with rose where she goes, all the drawings have come to life. I think that the idea of isolation, which is something that you said that you noticed, Brendan, has a difference between this and idiot's lantern. That idea is undermined by the fact that they're all standing around in the street talking to one another about the problem. Well, but they that only happens because of the problem. Yeah, but also the fact that Dale, the 1st kid that we see disappearing is actually playing a game in the front yard with one of his mates. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, the other thing is, like, as cute as the bit with the cat is, you know, the cat a cat goes into a box and disappears. Shading his cat. And apparently apparently the cat was a right little moggy to work with. And the scenes we see in the episode, it's being coaxed along with fishing wire, which had to be digitally removed. I think... I actually think that I spotted and, you know, I'm watching it on a sort of big 60 inch TV on Blu-ray. I think I spotted some cat food. Oh yeah, yeah, they were toasting with me food as well. But, you know, I was watching that going, once the doctor and Rose arrived, no other kids disappear. And I was thinking, what if instead of the cat, you had like a 10 year old boy going, oh, my mates are gone. I'll help you. I'll help you. And, you know, him helping the doctor and Rose then gives them, oh greater impetus because they've, they've met someone who this is affecting. Because Dr. and Rose, again, we've got this whole thing this season where, you know, they're a bit arrogant and they're a bit aloof. Like when they go to see Trish and Trish says, no, I don't want your help. They just go, oh, okay, and wander off. that's hilarious. Well, I mean, that's, you know, that's a deliberate ploy. We see that they're reverse psychologising. Yeah, and they walk off. A grown woman. Yeah. But it is, there's a sort of arrogant assumption that they can manipulate people. Yeah, yeah. Whereas, you know, I think a little bit of emotional connection here would help. And we kind of get it when, you know, when Rose is saying to the doctor, oh, this is just a kid's temper tantrum and the doctor's saying, no, this is a complex thing and children can be complex and it's loneliness. And at 1st Rose goes in and she starts shouting at Chloe, but then she realises, well, hold on. You know, just being all high and mighty isn't going to work here. I have to try and persuade you and convince you and I think that helps soften some of the arrogance we've been getting from these 2 recently. A bit like when Rose confronts Elton last week. But again, it's just another idea sort of floating in this story that isn't ever quite tight down. And I think, it just needed, it just needed more work with the script and I know it was a late commission. But I kind of feel with, you know, last week being Russell T Davies love letter slash commentary on fandom and next week being the season finale, this falls through the cracks a little bit unfairly. Let's talk about the doctor in Rose. So we get a great joke when they 1st arrive, something that's never happened before. I couldn't, I, when that happened, I couldn't believe I'd, they'd never done it before. The materialisation gag? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really funny, isn't it? And there's a sign on the gate saying do not park in front of this gate, which I think is kind of awesome as well. And that was something that was in Matthew Graham's script from the very beginning. Like that, it wasn't something Aerosling came up with. It was Matthew Graham going. How come the TARDIS always lands like in a convenient spot, you know? Yeah, no, that's super cute. that's really terrific. And, you know, the doctor's burbling about sort of various Olympics and things that he's been to. So they're clearly here to see the Olympics. How do we feel about what they're like at this point because we've complained a bit about the relationship between the doctor and Rose and maybe we've complained a little bit about Rose. Um, you know, being a bit selfish and a bit thoughtless. And here, I think in this story, they maintain a kind of distance that they maintain in tooth and claw, where they seem to be outside and kind of above what's going on. I agree with that. But I do think that Rose shows a bit more empathy than she does it other times, this series, particularly something that's always rubbed me up the wrong way with Idiot's lantern is when Mr Connolly leaves. Rose sort of says to Tommy, oh no, no, you should go after him. He's your dad, blah, blah, blah. And it's kind of like, that's not a good enough reason by itself. Yeah. You know, Whereas here, when Trish is telling her about Chloe's dad, she just kind of listens and asks questions. She doesn't offer any judgements. And I think that's really important because something the production team were very aware of was dealing with an issue like child abuse in a meaningful, respectful way. And I mean, I feel they could have possibly gone further, but I don't think they do it wrong. Yeah, I think they handle it as best as they could. And part of that is Rose's reaction, I think, because she's us. Yeah, she's the audience. And her sort of non-judgmental reaction, I think, is really important. It's something the story does get right. That's such a heavy part of the plot. Yeah, I think you're right. They don't do it wrong. There's just not, I think there could have been more of it. Yeah. Yeah. Clearer focus on it, I think. The other kind of issue that people have mentioned from time to time is just kind of the optics of the scary abusive father who's a sort of giant black guy as well. And it is always this sort of weird problem with representation isn't it? Like we've had 2 abusive fathers, this season. One of them was a cartoon white guy. And then, you know, well, I guess this guy's a cartoon as well isn't he really? almost literally. Yeah, but, you know, it's hard to know exactly how to think about that. Within the context of the season where you've had actors of colour and major roles, you've had Zachary Crossflame, who was a very effective leader. Wonderful, wonderful. Next week we're going to have Dr. Singh. We're going to have Adiola. Now, obviously they both meet a horrible fate, but Dr. Singh is very brave and very intelligent. We've got Mickey back next week as well, becoming the hero. I'd forgotten that. looking forward to that now. There is something to be read in that. But at the same time, if we're going to have a story about an abusive father, Who, who whether you visually cast in that role. There's going to be questions to be asked about that. Sure. Yeah, sure. And we don't have an actor in that role. I mean, we just have a voiceover guy. Yeah, exactly. And the script, I believe, for the family was if you like colour neutral. So the script describes them, that a bit like when Harry Potter and the Cursed Child cast, a black actor as Hermione, J.K. Rowling pointed out, I've only ever described Hermione's hair, and the description for Chloe's dad was pitted skin, bearded, close cropped hair, and big. So I don't I don't know if the other 2 were described in the script, but I don't think they were from what I've read. Just back to Billy and David for a second. They don't get as many light moments of like camaraderie in this one as they do in others, but Billy does get to do something, which is one of my favourite things and when it happens in the new show is when the doctor is gone or disappears and the companion has to be the doctor for a little while. I really love that, even though it's, she has to do is that weird impossible gravity defying throw. But there's a bit where she gets to be the doctor and she gets to pick a hole in the road and run around and shout. I think it was really, it was fun. enjoyed it. It's another parallel with Idiot's lantern, isn't it? Where the threat is that you get turned into some kind of media some kind of image, and it happens to beilly in the idiot's lantern. It happens to the doctor in this one at about the halfway and then the other one of them has to sort of go around and sort of help them out. I think it's a little bit of a shame that even though the doctors are drawing, he's the one who solves the problem. Oh, yeah, he does. And he points to the drawing of a torch. Yeah, yeah. In fact, he does the drawing of a torch somehow is the implication as well. Well, little tiny thing. What does he have earlier in the TARDIS when he erases scribble creature? He has a pencil in his pocket? In his pocket. Yeah. And also, I really love the scribble creature. Oh, I was hoping we won't get to this. I love this cribble crew just because they did it so well. And then it's just like this superimposed scribble flying through the sky and it sounds like you imagine an angry scribble would sound. Yeah, yeah. And then, um, but he shrinks it and then it's suddenly tangible that little thing that he holds in his hand. I thought that was seamless and I loved it. It's terribly good, isn't it? It actually manages to be sort of properly frightening and intimidating. It's like physically, you know, it feels like it's right on top of Billy. It seems like it's right in her face and it's moving really rapidly and it does look kind of angry. It's like an angry scribble. Even though it's just so silly. Like, it's a silly on paper. an angry scribble, an angry scribble follows Rose down the street. It's like, when she's sort of doing it on the paper and you can see, you really see how like frustrated she is, you really get that. And then it translates immediately to that terrifying angry scribble, which is so good. I loved it. Do you think that that kind of high concept is something that makes it play less well with kind of Doctor Who fans? I'm not a very good fan in that I don't keep track. I don't actually know that this one was widely disliked because I'm terrible at keeping up with like sort of greater fan opinion. That's very wise. Well, it's not through. It's not deliberate. I'm just very legal. Yeah, yeah, like, well, yeah, Fear her is getting off pretty lightly this week. This week we're all angry about not seeing a polished Patrick Trouton in animated form. But that scene also prefigures Rose becoming the doctor because when she hears the thing, like she's very doctorish and she's saying not going to open it, not going to open it, not going to open it. No, I'm opening it. It's Davidson flipping the coin and they're walking in the other direction. Yeah. It's really good. But that whole idea of people being trapped as drawings and like animated drawings, like cartoon people, you know, Dale gets turned into a cartoon and sort of runs straight at the camera. Yeah, at the start, like that, and I mean, that just before the sting, there's the kid runs screaming sort of towards the paper, I guess. Yeah, coming towards you. And that was so, that was, I forgot if that happened because I haven't seen this since it aired. And actually freaked me out a little bit. It was good. I was expecting to have a lot more animated drawings in the, in the, in the episode, but they, I guess they blew their budget on that. Yeah, yeah. I mean, this episode, in terms of CG was super cheap. Like there are fewer than 10 CG shots, I believe. I actually think too, and we'll talk a little bit more about this later, but the thing where the isolas pod hits the Olympic Torch. There is a line of dialogue later that suggests that it was struck by lightning, but I didn't see any light. That's right. That was a bit of a mist it, wasn't it? Yeah. Maybe they cut it out or something. They just forgot to, they said, actually, not going to do that. Yeah, yeah. We don't know what we're going to do yet because we've only got 10 10, 10 bucks. So don't know. The weird thing for me is, and yeah, answers on the back of a postcard, dear listeners. I watched this on the Blu-ray for the 1st time in preparation of this. And I am certain. I am certain that on broadcasting on DVD, when the pod hits there's a little sort of extra gush of flame, sort of thing. It's not on the Blu-ray. I watched it on a streaming service in Australia called Stan, and there was there was a brief little extra gout, but I do remember I'm sure I remember in broadcast that it was quite a dramatic flame out, you know, like quite a long one. Because he freaks, the torch runner kind of freaks out a little bit. Yeah, yeah. And then, I don't know, is that, is the, the Isolus pod going into the, the, um, torch, the reason that he sort of collapses later because I couldn't figure out why he fell down. Yeah, I think that's what we're, I think that's what we're meant to believe, but... Why? That was my favourite thing about that is that, you know, because I think Nathan, you said earlier that the person gets rescued by the doctor, but he totally doesn't. The doctor just like picks up the torch and keeps running. He's like, leaves in there. stop to see if the guy's right. No, going to take this torch for some reason. And the commentator actually says the words. Does this mean the Olympic dream is dead? It was so bad. Because that is the kind of thing the announcer would say. like, I have no idea what to say. I'm going. It going to be as bad as it possibly can be because that way if it is bad, I got to say it was bad 1st and if it's not, then it's bad. He was he was a real low point for me as a Hugh Edwards. I put him in the bin. Oh, yeah. Really, really terrible. The writing. Two bar writing. So we had some great luck last year with Andrew Marr, I think. You know, he was fabulous. But 0 my god, Hugh Edwards was just shockingly bad. And it turns out he did go on to commentate on the Olympic opening ceremony in real life. So he's a beloved BBC newsreader. But I mean, that whole thing kind of makes no sense. And we've got no money and we're trying to recreate the Olympics opening ceremony. And so you've got this distant shot of Cardiff Millennium stadium with some sort of CG flash bulbs, you know, sort of thrown in. Oh, yeah. And then you get these shots with a doctor, but no other people in shot because we can't possibly afford that as he kind of runs up. Runs up the steps of the millennium stadium. Yeah, carpet on. There's big red steps at a Dutch angle, so you can't see anything else. No, that's right. was quite funny. He lights the thing and then he does this sort of fist pump thing which is his most punchable moment as the doctor. It's so bad. It's so, so embarrassing. He actually woos, doesn't he? He says, woo, yeah. It's just so very it's very weird. And it's like, is he enjoying being in the spotlight or something? Is he just happy that they won? Or does he have to put the torch in the flame to send the Isolas home? Yes, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because it needs to feel the love of the whole stadium. And the end, right? So Chloe draws the crowd. And that drawing's really great in the picture of her, the little animation, like they speed up someone drawing and I think the drawings all look really good. I do like the bit where they spit up the hand. really fun. Yeah, it looks really good and obviously, you know, it would have been tiresome to watch for minutes on end drawing, so we have to do it anyway. But everyone disappears from the stadium. But the thing just keeps on going now. We're going to do the torch relay, you know, and we'll get everyone's back. At that moment, I was just imagining all of the, um, all of the horrible cheap hot dogs and beers that people have been holding had fallen onto their seats and smashed everywhere. And then all these people had reappeared and sat down on their, on their food. Or on poking glass or whatever. Yeah. I don't know why they thought of that, but that was just like, oh God. stupid. I mean it is really, really stupid. And like Doctor Who's been stupid in a sort of acceptable way before, but we can't afford to realise it. So we don't see anyone disappear. We get told it. We don't see them reappear. You know, we don't get anyone sort of high-fiving anyone or anything. You know, like nothing, you know, and we like Christmas invasion. We seem to see dozens and dozens of people affected, you know, and going up onto the roof and people talking and people relieved when it was all over. This giant event, we just can't afford to see it at all. And it's just hard to know what it's doing there. I don't mind it so much. I'm willing to let that one go. I just would have could have done without the Saccharin Street party at the end. I was so surprised that I was so sure that the chabby dad was going to say something, you know, like makes you proud to be British or something like that. I just cannot... I'm so surprised they didn't they didn't do that because it was awful. Yeah, even the even the chabby street pay. Like, Rose turns up with a cake. Where is the rest of the cake? Did the budget stretch to one cupcake with edible ball bearing? I mean, you know, we we we found out later, David Tennant had to go off and have a tooth replaced because they couldn't even afford edible ball bearings and they were just real ball bearings. Wow. No one told him. Oh, no. They put them in Carol Anne Ford sandwich as well. Just every sandwich she ever had while she was on the show. That's why she left. It's been a year, a year of ball bearings. I can never see Ian McCellen again. Back to those drawings. That's one of the things I liked. I like that wall of drawings that she had. is a couple of shots later where they sort of walk in on her and she's just sat on the bed surrounded by this creepy wall of drawings. I did really like that. It was cool. Also, Bridget, I don't know why, but whenever Bridget and I watch something that's got a teenager's bedroom is in it, like on TV or in a movie, I start hawking on the set dressing because I have never seen anything in fiction where a set dresser accurately reproduces a teenager's bedroom. It's just like hilariously watching an adult trying to remember what a teenager's bedroom is supposed to be like, and there's always, always a musical instrument. There's always a guitar in the background. And I was just looking for a guitar. There is a keyboard. And there's an expedit shelf just covered with the stupidest crap you've ever seen, the blobbiest art, the stupidest knickknacks. And it's just, I was just imagining the set dresser with 0 budget going, how do I do a teenager's bedroom? There's a lot of IKEA furniture in it. Like a lot of visibly IKEA furniture in it. When I was at university, there was a cinema not far from it, so real art house cinema called the Valhalla, and every kind of student accommodation thing would have a Valhalla poster in it and it had little pictures and stuff and they would always be showing wings of desire and the quiet earth and stuff like that. But one of the films that was always on it was a thing called Paperhouse. Did you ever, did you know about this? So it's based on a novel by Catherine's store called Marianne Dreams, which is sort of mid-20th century. I'm not exactly sure when it's from. And it's a little girl and she has a fever. I think she has glandular fever maybe and she's kind of isolated at home and she starts drawing this house and then when she has her fever dreams, she's trapped in that house and she meets someone that she's drawn. And it's super beautifully directed in a way that this episode isn't. And it's incredibly frightening. And there's one scene, I think, where she draws her father and I can't remember the details, but she scratches his face out. And when she appears in the dream, he's rampaging around the house after her because she's blinded him, it's so frightening and I just can't help thinking that that has to be one of the kind of inspirations for this. I remember very little about it. I'll put stuff in the show notes about it. I do remember Glenn Hedley was the mother and she's fabulous. So like that was a thing, but it was, it's a really effective and really, really frightening film about childhood that uses the same medium to kind of explore childhood trauma. Only it does it in a really, really atmospheric and effective way. That sounds really deep and interesting in a way that this episode really isn't. Yeah, that's right. But it's so easily could have been. you know, like it so easily could have been. It's certainly gesturing towards there, but just not getting there. I don't think we specifically mentioned it, but I do want to praise Abby Solar Aggbaji, who plays Chloe. I think I think she does a very, very good job, especially because we don't really see Chloe. You know, we see Chloe just at the end when she runs to her mum and the sort of final threat. But even so, I get the impression throughout the episode. Yeah, we've got the scenes where she's purely isoless and we've got the scenes where she's Chloe trying to understand what's happening. And I think she really sells that because there's quite a few times where she says, you know, get away from me, mum, but it never feels like I hate you. It feels more like I don't know what's happening, keep your distance. I don't know what this is. And yeah, I think she does a really excellent job. She didn't have much TV experience. Andy Pryor had seen her in the theatre and decided, you know, I think she'll be good for this part, but also, interestingly, I read this in Doctor the Complete History, and I'll actually read the exact quotation. It was decided that the Webber family should be black, although few black child actors were put forward by agents for the role of Chloe. It doesn't specify as to why, whether the agents didn't have many black children on their books, if they weren't of the correct age but that's part of the reason that Abby Solo was cast. And I think she brings a stage presence to the role, if you like there is sort of an ingenue quality to her, which makes her very real as a lonely child. You know, she's not grand as a performance like this might be. She's very quiet and very internal. Yeah, that's something that I noticed because they don't give her a lot. They don't put a lot on top of her. Like when she is sort of voicing the isolus, uh, and when she's angry later, she kind of speaks in a whisper. And I think there's a tiny bit of treatment on her vocals, but I would have expected them to put, like, you know, a real heavy filter over it. like it was sort of control from ghost-like, kind of a sound over a voice to make distinguish that as the alien. But they didn't really give her anything. So effectively, she's just doing kind of a harsh whisper, which is like, seemed quite hard to do. And that's all she's got to make herself kind of a scary alien. I think she does pretty well. I would have lost the whisperer, I think. I think that we would understand that she was a possessed alien if she just got to use her normal voice. And I actually think she struggles a bit with the whisper. I think the whisper is crap. I think it a crap idea, but like, what I mean, what I mean is, like even, even though they, all they gave her to use was, well, they suggested she do is give her a whisper. I still think she's quite believable, like she does really well. I actually think too, when she's lying on the bed and she's possessed and she's drawing at the same time. Like, that's stupid. I don't know why they thought that that was a good thing. Oh, see, I think it's really great because, you know, it is an exposition dump. Yeah. As you said earlier today, like the whole plot stops to tell us what the isolas are. It means it breaks that up a bit. So it breaks it up 1st with the illustrations and then with the actual flashback. of the creature coming to her. Again, it's an example of the tone being a bit weird that we have this story that ends with a mother and daughter sort of stepping out of the shadow of an abusive man from their past. After they overcome that, we don't see them again. We go back to the doctor and Rose, you know, we don't see them coming out and enjoying the street party. It's been it's, you know, it's been implied that Chloe was lonely and didn't play with the other kids even before this, Chloe could have come out and played with the other kids. You know, do the other kids know what has happened to them? Like, is this going to be really awkward for Chloe? I would have... They don't want to play with her anymore. Definitely not now. They all just kind of pop back into existence. And I don't know if you noticed, but I thought, all the kids that kind of popped back into existence were kind of, they were kind of gross. There's that kid who pops back in the alleyway and he's got that sort of like weird thatch of hair. He was I was like, put him back. His dad's hot though, so it's all good. But also that kid who comes back in the alleyway, the doctor and Rose say he cycled in one end and never cycled out the other. I'm sorry. How are you getting a bike through there? It's like a foot and a half wide at the corners. And also he doesn't come back with his bike. He comes back having to jump towards a brick wall. Brave actor, I must say. And then they all run back to their mums like it's the end of Indiana Jones in the Temple of Doom. silly. Yeah, well, I suppose, you know, they've been in the illusory world of the isolus, so they haven't had to have a bath or change their clothes or defaecate or anything. think they'd be busting wouldn't you? Well, unless Chloe drew it, you know, you don't know what she was drawing in the... Just labouring. I'll do you next and then you, then you. draw a toilet, but then I'm erasing it, okay? Okay. Look, I just would have liked to see a little bit of Chloe and Trish getting back to normal. Yeah. You know, because we have we have an implication of that, but yeah still, the last time we see them, is they're sat with their backs against the door, sort of, ideas kind of thing. Yeah. Does the doctor do they just shout through the letter to the letter slot? Bye. You guys seem, you guys seem fine now, all finished. See you. Sorry about the pickaxe to the door, you know, open plan. We've got cakes to eat I mean, it just shows a lack of interest in that as the theme. You know, like if they had properly foregrounded that as the theme. If that was definitely what the episode was about, then they would definitely have done it. But the episode doesn't seem to be about anything in particular. And so that scene which, in retrospect, is absolutely crucial isn't it? And you have to have a scene. You're right, where she interacts with other kids. The scene with the dad almost feels like an afterthought, like as if the Olympic Torch thing is the climax. And it's sort of, that's, the whole thing goes kind of wrong for me because to me, the story is about the kid and her isolation and this sort of hinted out backstory with her dad, but instead of they make it about a space flower. Yeah, yeah. I mean, even the idiot's lantern had that scene. You know, it's the scene that I think is a bit iffy, but possibly deliberately iffy where Tommy goes after his dad, you know, not to say, hey, come back to the house, but just to kind of go, look we're still family, in spite of everything. I mean, he's still escorting him off the premise. Still escorting him off the ground. You know, it's... But it addresses the fact that these 2 people's lives will go on regardless of what happens. Here, the emphasis at the end get shifted to, okay, we have to foreshadow the season finale. And it's just kind of like, I think you could do both. Even if it's just Trish and Chloe wandering out on the street and waving to the doctor and going to join the party, it doesn't need dialogue. You know? Yeah, instead we get the, um, actually, it's like the dorkiest way. It's like the dorkiest way I've ever seen this done where someone says there's a storm coming or there's a storm brew in me. He says, there's a storm's approaching. It's like I was like, what? What? It's the lamest way to say that ever. Oh, it was great. Well, listeners, David Tennant has completely ruined the opening ceremony, and Billy Piper's telling anyone who listened that she plans to stay on Doctor Who forever. Still, the next time trailer looks promising, so we'll see you next week for Army of Ghosts. In the meantime, you can find us at flightthroughentirety.com flight through entirety on Facebook and Apple Podcasts and at FTE podcast on Twitter. You can also find us on our other podcasts, our series 11 flashcast, Jody into Terra, is it Jody Interterra.com, and our James Bonder-like commentary podcast Bondfinger is at bondfinger com. And they're also both on Twitter, Facebook, and Apple podcasts. Where can people find you, Dan? Well, you can find, you can find us uh new to who.com or on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts and you can find us on Twitter at new to who podcast. Until next time, may all the most pivotal events in your life be accompanied by a running commentary from beloved TV newsreader Hugh Edwards. Thank you very much for listening and good night. feel like a beacon of hope and love right now. Good night. Truh. That was Flight through Entirety, starring Nathan Bodley, Brendan Jones, and Daniel from New to Who. Theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings Performance by Jane Orberg. This episode, most punchable moment, was recorded on the 10th of March 2019 and released on the 26th of May. The isolus joins a long list of Doctor Who aliens and planets named after their most obvious characteristic, including the dry planet Zeridius, the desperate planet desperous, the slithering monster known as the slither, and the planet refuses, where everyone refuses not to be in a very silly story. What do you think? We talked about the end of the episode. Yeah, yeah. We're over an hour in. I think we, what do you think? Yeah. Yeah, feel good. That was great. I think that's really good. I'm going to do my... Edwards, right? Not Evans. I think it's Edwards. I don't really have anything else. Edwards, yeah. No, the Hugh Evans, Hugh Evans was the name of the guy who did mastermind in Australia back in the... Did you guys have your own an Australian version of Mastermind? So you didn't just screen the British one. Oh, wow. If you go, I don't know if it's still there, but ABC, I view. If you search for something called When TV was awesome. Oh right. It's redubs of 1970s TV, including some redubs of mastermind. I remember Mastermind. so well I remember British mastermind because it seemed like it was from the 60s even when it was in the 80s because yeah. So you mean redubs? Do you mean comedy redubs? Comedy redubs? So this redub of mastermind is called Bastard. where the host is insulting the question is and they lose if they call him a bastard. But the other brilliant one they do is man boat. With just patrol boat. Man boat. I just thought when I said when TV was awesome. I assumed it was just some like, and, you know, it's one of those things of, you know, 20, 20 and 20, like one of those things where they just interview about old TV and how great it was or something. No, it's like, it's Harry Butler and all sorts of 70s shit that I grew up with or being redubbed by hilarious. Like a barjas type thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah, very, very, very like barge arson Hercules returns. Yeah. All right. Did we talk about the frosty breath and like the fact that it's meant to be July and... Oh, because they say it's cold. didn't they say it's cold because the alien or something like that? Yeah, they're the alien goes. It still cold. It takes a while to walk. It takes a while to warm up. The doctor says, why is it so cold? I was like, because you're in London. But they do it again. Like it's in, do you remember when they're in the Dubai desert and then they go to, you know, Ed Thomas's usual factory for the spaceship interiors and it's really cold and we get some dialogue explaining why it's really cold there, there's always some space reason why it's being shot in the middle of winter. I mean, this is, yeah, this one, though, is the whole ridiculous thing off. Let's write a story based around the Summer Olympics. Yes, and film it in January. Yeah. But that's like, that's like the runaway bride where it's like incredibly hot. You know, like there's a massive heat waving sun everywhere. Yeah, but the thing is though, right? Matthew Graham's original pitch is let's have a desolate world where everything's gray and we'll even be shooting it in January and Russell goes, no, let's set something during the summer. Yeah, where they did that in quality and space anyway. You can cut this, but you can cut this, but I don't I don't think the drug stopped after Quira's photos. No. Yeah. Nice. That does explain end of time part two. Ecky Tuesday. Oh man. See, I actually have a bigger problem with part one. I have a bigger problem with part one. Part one could be 15 minutes long. I love the cliffhanger. Look, if you absolutely, I'm on board for the cliffhanger. I'll watch I'll watch Timothy Dalton, like gurning and hamming in anything, I don't care. It's fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's Alright.