Granddad Prentis Hancock

Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to Flight through Entirety the only Modern and People Focus Doctor Who podcast that thinks it's very important to know everyone by name. I'm Nathan. James. I'm Todd. And this is the story of how I left. This is the story of how I left FTE podcast to go to the toilet. So what's new with you, Richard? Well, I'm just temping for this episode. I'm hoping someone will give me a full-time job. You know, it's worth a crack. Well, we've arrived back on Earth for another two-part finale, only to find that all our dead racist relatives are back. voting for you, Kip, and sticking the place up with cheap cigarettes. It's a pungent and terrifying army of ghosts. Listeners, I had you all going there for a moment. I wasn't giving you quite enough information, and I was sort of misdirecting you a bit, you know, you thought I was actually going to leave. And the beginning of this episode, we've got that new who classic trick of giving us certain information without giving us maybe the correct information or all of the story and I certainly was very worried. Were you worried? Did we think that Billy Piper's character was going to die at the end of this? We'll be suspended in the narrative because that's what naughty Russell does. He knows he's writing a soap. And there's no doctor who never does that. Sorry, Matthew Waterhouse. Doctor Who never does that. Sorry, Katerina, Doc, you never does that. Sorry, Gene Marsh. Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, unless we do. So I remember a story and it's probably recounted on Elle Sandifer's blog, and it's Russell talking about Bad Wolf. And in Bad Wolf. There's a scene where it looks like Rose has been shot and she turns into a little sort of pile of dust on the floor. And Russell says that the audience, the child audience would know that she wasn't dead. And I think that that's because she's too important a character for us to kill off. There's no way that we could have found that final episode next week's episode satisfying or even tolerable, I think, if the focus character for the last 2 years had ended up dying. Well, you'd end up with something like, I don't know, torchwood. Where everyone ends up dying sooner or later. But I mean, that is geared towards adults, in theory at least, or sort of horny 15 years. that's right. who also pine for Joss Whedon. So, yeah. I mean, we've been leaning into her dying. We got a mention from the beast a few weeks ago who said that she would soon die in battle, and we know now, of course, that that was shot after this was. And so they sort of stuck it in as some foreshadowing. And then last week, of course, at the end of fear her, there's some kind of big battle coming and something terrible is going to happen. So we have been leaning into it. Yeah, and like she's never, ever, ever, ever going to leave you. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's a bad situation when somebody says that. Well, I think we knew that she was going to leave. It had certainly been announced that Billy Piper was leaving the program by then. So the big question is, how does she leave? and the other big question is, how on earth are we going to cope with a modern Doctor Who that doesn't have Camille Kaduri in it? And I seem to remember that I was much, much more upset about the prospect of Camille leaving the show than I ever was about Billy Piper. It's so wonderful to see Camille front and centre in this episode really taking the role of the Doctor Who companion. She hasn't been in a lot of this season. Like, it's just been little scenes, save for 2 weeks ago when she was in Love and Monsters. Yeah, where it was a great affecting role. But besides that, it's been alternate Jackie and just little bits and pieces. So to have her right smack bang in the middle of the plot saying grandad, Prentice, Hancock has come back. You know, it's just fantastic. I always think that. a wide role. Because he's not, he's got not a lot to do, but he is wearing flares. Not much has changed. Every time she says that. I always think grandad, Prentice, Hancock. and I think Doctor Who Classic says the rebus operation and the planet of evil. I really hope that's what Russell meant now. He's probably tractably evil. Wouldn't be exactly meaning that. Yeah, she is the, again, she's the lovely warm, sparkly heart in everything she's in, isn't she? I love her. when she's talking about being on set. She's exactly the same as Jackie when Camille says, oh, I was standing right next to a cyber person and I turned and I thought he was, I was on his mark and he gave me such a blank look. It was horrifying. There's a beautiful moment where she really annoys the doctor by repeatedly kissing him and like grabbing him and calling him, you know, big fella and giving him a big kiss and stuff, which I just think is absolutely terrific. Like she now has the upper hand. She gets to make the doctor feel uncomfortable and I think that's really kind of sweet. And all the way through, she does it. There's a wonderful moment next week where the doctor leaps in for some much needed exposition and she just tells him he can shut up now. But he does treat her like, you know, he puts it down so much in this episode, yet she still just, you know, sucks it up and bounces back. When the doctor actually like explains who she is, like not the best I've ever had, age 57 years because she looked into the time vortex. Like, she says, I'm 40 and he goes, delusional. They make such a wonderful team. And it's such a lovely sort of foreshadowing to perhaps a companion who would be more his own age. Yeah, yeah. Who's willing to sort of, you know, have that sort of banter and have little digs at each other. But she's there for him. When he pulls that chair up when Yvonne is going to do the ghost shift, she stands there right behind him, like backing him up. And it's beautiful. Their bonding is beautiful despite all that little niggling throughout the episode. She's just a delight. It's so great having her be the companion. And the one thing. I mean, it was just the one thing they had to do with her given that it was going to be her last sort of semi-regular appearance on the show. And the only thing that I kind of miss is that she never got to travel to an alien planet with them, which would have just been tremendous. It would have been very funny. I mean, I guess I get a bit disappointed when she says, we better not end up on Mars or wherever, you know, when she's inside the Tartars. It's sort of like, oh, Jackie, I kind of would like you to end up on an alien planet. But I'm with you. It's such a, at the time, knowing that Billy was leaving, knowing that Camille would be going as well was quite devastating. And I don't think there's quite been a mother like her since they've they've had some good attempts at it, but for me, she is the best mum in the show. It's not like she's Amy's mum or Clara's mum or Bill. right? A case of perhaps diminishing returns there, but she's just a joy. Yeah. I think Jackie King probably gives her a bit of a run for her money in series four, but as Brendan would say, we're getting ahead of ourselves. So we come back to Earth, we're in the middle of something, and invasion has already started to happen. Always the best way, as Russell said, bring him in in the middle of the drama. We don't appear on a white void set and unless we're doing episode one of the mind robber. Everyone disses the mind robber as well. Yeah, no, we're not doing that kind of thing anymore. And it's much more exciting because of that. It also, unfortunately, means that we don't get to see David being quiet as much as I would like. Yeah, yeah. I quite like it when he doesn't do anything. That's right. When he's on screen, but not saying anything. But it's a little bit like invasion of the dinosaurs. Something huge and worldwide has happened and our, you know, the doctor and rose appear and they don't know what's going on yet. And so Jackie is the one who gets to explain it to them. But it gives rise to something that sort of happened last season but becomes an episode 12 tradition, which is the celebrity cameos. Oh, on the TV, like with the weather and then the Tricia Show and that ad they do, Ecto Shine, and then Barbara Windsor in EastEnders. Dirty Dens Ghost comes back. You know, you know that's that's an in-joke in joke. Really? Because... Does he come back? Well, he left the year before, did he? Dirty 10 Watts. Who is Kisten in Resurrection of the Dialects? That his wife. Chrissy Watts was played by Tracy Ann openly. Ah. How about that? You know, it's not just, oh, isn't that funny? Okay, let's bring back Den Watts and it was Kiston. It's a reference to the fact that you've got his ex-wife in the show. Yeah. I just adore that Barbara Wins is now canon. I think it's amazing that she had never been in the show before. I mean, it's if Tom Baker got talked to in the scratchment off the ground. Surely she would have been, you know, the companion in that or something like that. She would have played Camille Kuduri. Ah, yeah. I mean, they've had Joan Sims back in the 80s from the carry on movies, but I'm just really surprised that Barbara never made it until this point in time. We also have Derek Akora, which I think is a really funny little cameo because he's the sort of famous ghost hunter and he's on TV lamenting that no one needs him anymore because there's ghosts all over the place, which I think is pretty good. And so this will go on. We'll get that again next year and it'll be a thing that happens from time to time in the future, I think. It's another way that Russell is able to say we own all of television. Yes. This is a show about a television box with a box flying around inside the box. Yeah, yeah. That's how Billy Hartnell explains it. It is. Billy Piper Hartnell. Billy Piper Hartle. You've discovered television. With similar tombstone teeth. You knew she was going to die. She's been carrying the graveyard around in her mouth 10 years now. It's such silliness, but I love it. I just love all those little cameos Oh, no, we do. It will also, as little fan children of the of the never wear of the previous generation, it posits us in reality. And we used to get so excited when Doctor Who was mentioned on Dave Allen, or there was a little clip of anything. This is a little nod for the children now to know that, you know you're big, but this is the difference though. Back then, it was a discreet, quiet, little nerdy thing that was just lost amongst the rest of television. And not saying it was any less popular, but it also wasn't that much more special except to us. Yeah. And now, of course, with media, the whole world can share being nerdasmic little children again, like weekend. We're not. I don't know that we're as special as we used to. No, but I think that's a great thing. I actually remember, and I've probably said this on the podcast before, when series one was on air, someone at work said, you look happy, and I said, I have to confess that it's because Doctor Who's back on, you know, and not only that, but it's the biggest thing on TV. And I think this is the era when Doctor Who is at its most important. It's at its biggest, maybe in the mid 70s as well, but definitely here where it is absolutely massive and will continue to be for the next couple of years. The ghosts, did you suspect that they were the side limit? No. It's a very strange way of bringing them back, isn't it? Because the cyberman, James. Well, they deliberately spread a rumour back in 2006 that it was the Gelf returning to throw people off. And she actually says, asks if it's the gals, doesn't she? And he says, don't be dumb. We're never bringing them back. Saws. I love his dialogue. Like the footprint doesn't look like a boot. Yeah, it's that's a lovely line, isn't it? Hang on. Is that... Are we lampshading something else? Is that actually... Now, but isn't it Conan Doyle reference? Doesn't it come back, gentle listener, out there might remember? I know that line. It is a clever way of introducing. off Watson. the eider down muddy. Yes. I do remember that one. All other, whole other fanfic world just opened up beyond the bridge. called Sherlock. It's a very strange way of bringing them back because they have been science fiction villains very much. And so bringing them back in this weird, supernatural way. You know, it's a way that none of us would have predicted. In fact, from the edge, back from memory. It's a very nice way of doing. I think it is it is tremendous. It could be a bit of phasic if you can't remember a couple of months ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's always interesting how Russell sets these things up because back in the age of steel, Rise of the Cyberman, it was quite clear that the worlds had closed and thus it kind of could possibly be the Cyberman, the fanboy in you wants that, but it's been stated that it's highly unlikely, you know, if worlds are colliding. So you're sort of discounting it at the same time as wanting it to happen, which I think is a really clever writing. I mean, it had to be them, didn't it? Last year, it was a monster that had been brought back for the 1st time in the two-part finale, and so this year, it's the same pattern. And I've observed before that series one brings back the Dalek series 2 brings back the Seidman series 3 brings back the master you know, corresponding to the main antagonists of the 1st 3 doctors. Russell is bringing the mythology of the program to a whole new generation of viewers in the same order. And series 4 brings back Davros, just like Davros is introduced with the 4th. Yeah, yeah. So, and the sultanans, obviously. The sudden and themselves. For me, I've never been the greatest villains of all time. No, they're terrible. But it was really great listening to your Age of Steel Rise of the Cyberman podcast. because we're obviously still recording this as the season has been released. And I've just listened to those. But your whole discussion about the way in which Russell has reinvented the cyberman and the new origins. I found really quite interesting because I had just sort of dismissed the whole thing. I hated that when I watched it originally because it wasn't the original. Well, it wasn't not like you. Not at all. Because it wasn't the original cyberman who had a history with the doctor was just these robotic monsters that are all the same that are just, you know, have no history with the doctor. So I just kind of went, that's a whole load of rubbish. Thus, I'm going to dismiss those 2 episodes. And so having these cyberman cybers things coming back here. It's sort of like, well, they're not really the cybermen. They're just fakes. But I really did enjoy your discussion about why he did that and how he reinvented them and coming not from like, you know, some 10th planet thing, you know, upside down earth. Yeah, so I actually do really appreciate that discussion. And certainly coming into watching these episodes and even reevaluating age of steel and rise of sidemen, it certainly improved my appreciation. I do think here, though, they are kind of generic robot monsters in a way. They do upgrade people and that's clearly their aim. And so that's something that Russell has chosen to foreground that very often gets forgotten in the classic series. With a notable exception tide of attack of the side men, which does upgrade people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it's very much back to Kit Peddler. Yeah. In that it was all about the fear of technology. And the fear of modern, you know, where they were talking Christian Barnard was talking about at the time on anyway, he was good. We've talked about this before, actually. heart replacement surgery. Goodness, I'm getting a flashback, dear listener, 1978 when we 1st did this podcast. Yeah. So the same fears are there. And the little AirPod thing is very clear, but Russell talks about why do we constantly need the new thing? What is it about the fear of being left behind? And that maybe is the clinch of this episode. The fear of rose being left behind, or in other words, dying is the saying that we fear, the little FOMO fear. Get out the BBC FOMO machine. That's what this episode is all about. Yeah, the fear of missing out. The fear of not being part of whatever this collective is. Have we mentioned Brexit yet? don't think. No, normally we have to. I do think, though, there's sort of so much going on that there isn't that much time for the sidemen to do very much apart from sort of stomping around the place. And that's why we have Graham Harper. Yes, we do. Can you imagine how doll this would be without him? Getting 9.7% appreciation from, not from the viewing figures. I think they got about James. You're our lexicographer here. The appreciation. Yeah, it was eight. That's not bad. I'm being seventh, I think, that was only after Corey and more football. England lost that week. I was hoping they'd throw a reference in, but I don't think they did, but there was a major thing, you know. But getting that sort of thing, it's just Graham Harper, it really would, there's not much in this. really thin. Yeah, I think that that's true. I mean, you get the ghosts introduced and then you get a guided tour of torchwood and we kind of set up the situation for next week. Which is the apprentice. You know, that's the location. That's the same opening establishing shot that the British apprentice used. Yeah, the aerial shot. Yeah, the Crown Tower, whatever it is. They had originally, I think, intended to create their own CG tower, but kind of ran out of money. It was going to be over the breach, wasn't it, James? It was originally written to be in the writer's tale. It was over the over the card. originally, originally, the episode was set in Cardiff. Oh, okay. over the time riff. Right. And when Torchwood was commissioned to series, Russell decided, oh I'll set it in London, make it bigger, make the whole torch would mythology, and then destroy that. And then we have this one over here, which is still relatively unaffected by the events of that story, apart from, say, Yanto. I think that we did talk in our previous episode about the way that Russell takes London and stuffs it full of secret alien bases and stuff. And so this is another example of that where you look at Canary Wharf. You see that very building and you think about how Torch would actually build that in order to get to the rift. And I just love that. That's one of my favourite things about this era of Doctor Who. But it's so ridiculous that the cybermen came through 1st and then they're just in the office space next door behind some plastic sheets. And then, and then, and then like Gareth goes in, and he gets cyber tied and you hear nothing, then Freemas, and whatever her name is, goes in and she screams and sees a cyberman, and then Matt, I want to see something? Yes, Matt, you go in, but you get to scream and have all the like it's like an angle grinder, isn't it? Thank you, mate. angle grinder and anything like that. Like, I just love the way it goes from. No noise to like full on. Our office is in the Governor Philip Tower down at the quay on the top floor. And for the last, honestly, 4 or 5 months, we've had the office suite being built around us, there's a lot of screaming. And honestly, the glint in the eye from the mirror balls, those builders put up constantly. It's really not that far. It's not that far different really, isn't it? In fact, it's the only kind of interesting peril that sort of happens, isn't it? Because it is just very much an introduction and a guided tour. And so we have to have the cybermen do something. And so that's, I think, why they're there doing that in this episode. Yeah, it's all William Patterson. I see them all as being Bill Patterson's resurrected career from the rocketeer. because it's that same gorgeous 30s, Will Eisner helmet design. But hang on, didn't the sphere come through 1st and created the breach through which the cybermen were able to follow? So was this, there's huge bronze ball in the air? James? The sphere came through after the tower was built. So they noticed the breach and then built a tower and then the sphere came through. I like the sphere a lot. I think it's very cool. And it's a sort of great idea. And it's one of those things too, that Russell manages to explain in just sort of very normal terms, you know, there is a talk about no sort of electromagnetic radiation and no mass and no kind of anything, no readings from it, as if it isn't there. And just that detail where it said, that's why it makes you feel uncomfortable because it doesn't seem to be there. And he manages to achieve that and make it uncanny without leaning very heavily into sort of science fiction gobbledygook. Yes, it's a mystery. another mystery on top of things, and you have to wonder, how does that work with the cyberman? And part of the fanboy in me, when you look at your kind of thing Oh, could it be something to do with the Daleks being like a sphere, but you could sort of discount that? I can't remember. That's good that you guessed. I'd hadn't guessed at the time. It's a little... Paul, he said it. It's a nod to the hard SF of the 60s. So Fred and Jeffrey Hoyle and Standard Style Lamb, and, you know who would posit things like this, that, you know, especially in Standard Style Limbs writing, where you've got things that shouldn't exist, and it's about the disquiet of being in around unrealities. It's really nicely done. Because again, it ties in with the whole new tech thing. We're very comfortable with things that slightly frighten us. Or then maybe there's that sense of the brave new world of having to overcome our fears by believing that we're in control of it, but underneath there's the substantive fear that we don't actually know as, as, um, David said it at the time, it gets into our little plastic things and we don't know how it gets there. I assume he's talking about his phone. but I love the fact that that entire plot allows Rose to do a very classic Doctor Who thing of the companion investigating separately and she gets to put on the white lab coat and then follow somebody down somewhere else and she's got her own little story to solve. She's pert we for most of this episode, isn't she? He puts on a white cone. I mean, both parts of the episode separate the doctor and Rose for pretty much all of it. They're not together very much, except in the sort of last few scenes of the final episode. But what we do get, and what was an absolute surprise, is the reappearance of Mickey. Does she follow him down there? Is he the scientist you're following or not? At the last minute? Sure, but he is definitely visible in shot before he turns around. With his back to her. Yeah, yeah. And he's had a haircut or whatever and we don't recognise him. He's wearing that great hoodie anyway. Did you know it was him? Had you spotted him before? I haven't in the in the day. I didn't even do it again this time. Oh, that's right. It appears in it. It's been so long since I watched. No, I kind of remember my gaze sort of went to the person in the background. Why is that person sort of horring in the background, but I didn't really... And then when he turns around, it's like, oh, my goodness, you know? How fantastic. And I do think too, that it is a good idea to have Rose and Mickey together. We'll talk more about this next week, but the last time Mickey appeared. We thought that Rose had been rather mean to him. And so getting them together to kind of patch things up a little bit, I think, was kind of a good idea. And it is just amazing to see him back. What I like is the fact that Mickey is seen to be completely competent and has managed to infiltrate this organisation, whereas Rose can only infiltrate for 5 seconds before she's caught. And that massive gun. Where was he hiding that? You really don't want to know. It's not a compact laser to last. He's actually a little bit dismissive of her too. He's in no way excited to see her. He calls her babe in this sort of dismissive way. And it's kind of like the tables have turned. He's sort of over her, or at least wants to look like he is, but he doesn't sort of fall into that subservient tin dog role immediately. He's got a job to do and he's clearly, you know, since we left him behind in sort of episode 5 or whenever it was, episode 6. With the other blonde. With the other blonde, more of whom laser. But only last week in recording, too. But I think that's so fantastic, I think. His role in this episode, Rose's role in this episode. Jackie's role in this episode are all wonderful. And the other person who I absolutely adore is Tracy Ann Cyberman Yvonne Hartman. I mean, I think she's every Doctor Who Gay Boy's delight. I mean, she sashays handclaps and hair flicks away through this. Fabulous hair. You know? Really? Are we going to talk about the hair? My favourite moment is when is the confidential when David says to her she's been 15 hours in makeup? And, and, oh, one of the wake-up lady said 16, David, we didn't get a home over the weekend. And she still can't get a bloody hair. Oh, sorry, it's the driest thing. Billy's been out on a planet of the flying stingray vortisors and she still manages bounce and plasticity. And honestly, open, it's just a thicket. It's a single Lego. clipped onto a head. No, it's just really dry and rough. No, no, she obviously's just her own hair because she's 15 hours in makeup. She is incredible and I think we should talk about torchwood as well. So Torchwood has been occasionally name checked. Even since Bad Wolf. Yeah. You have a list? No, actually, I don't have I don't have a list. Sorry to disappoint you, listeners. So it has been, you know, name check from time to time, but not in a sort of massive way. It doesn't get... almost every story, but it's just subtly done. Yeah. It's even at the party in Rise of the Sidemen when Pete says how's Torchwood going, mate, something. Yeah, that's right. And there's a wonderful reference to Torchwood in Love and Monsters. I can't remember whether in that episode we mentioned that it has Bad Wolf Torchwood and Mr. Saxon all in the one episode. It's our 1st Mr Saxon reference as well. So Torch would sort of set up as an antagonist for the doctor, but it hasn't really been serving that purpose. But it's a very strange antagonist for the doctor, I think. Well, I quite like it. Like, I like the fact that they're trying to find the doctor, like using CCTV. The 1st time we have the ghost shift, the music that accompanies it is literally the torch would theme. Oh, yeah, it is too. And then, you know, they get taken and then we're walking around the base. I mean, I think it's a bit stupid having like the Egyptian mummy thing. I loved that. You could see that one of Sutek's little animated corpses is standing right next to the police box. A sarcophagus next to it. I mean, I liked it at the time. And I thought, well, didn't they burn the entire house down? So it wouldn't have been all charcoal? Maybe those things are not proof to, you know, maybe they're asbestos line? Yeah, it was a space sarcophagus. Okay, time vortex protected it. Okay, I stand corrected. I like the cat with a moustache and a big begging bowl and thinking what that's from. And what about the big giant CG thing? There's a giant CG spaceship. Enormous Webber barbeque. Is that a reference to the killer cats of Jiddensen? Oh, that's not real. But I do like to get the whole tour of Torchwood, and it's like, oh happy day, and I'm a people person, like all of that stuff. Oh, yes, and I love when she says that because she's a monster and that's how you know she's a monster. Yeah, because of her fluent management. It's neoliberal proto-fashion. Jab a walkie man. Yeah, she's great in the torchwood audios. Oh really? finish is done. They've done a number of them set before the fall of torture. We did talk a little bit about fascism in the last cyberman to Pada, and so I think it's interesting that what we have here in Torchwood is explicitly imperialist. And there's one point where Jackie says, we don't have a British Empire, and her response, Tracy Ann Seidman, responds, not yet. And we observed in our tooth and claw episode that Torchwood still uses imperial tons, and she has to make that quite clear. We don't go metric in torchwood, like those terrible Europeans. And it just seems very strange. Let's talk Brexit, Richard. It does. It's exactly, the one knot I thought here was another commendators have said this. It's really precinent of Russell to get this. and others have, you know, the guardian and the independent, what's left of the independent. How will Britain manage without our own energy source? I think we actually need to go up and find some seaweed. And then, you know, if only Debbie Watling was still with us and could hurl a lungful at the North Sea and see what we get back. Well, I mean, if the doctor hadn't spent so much time in the 70s shutting down alternative energy projects. Thank you. A whole lot of eye patches distribute it to every fascist crypto dictator that might want to take over a power station. Then we might get that. But yeah, it's very, it's a very interesting nod to, well, Britain if you want your empire back, you'll need a power source. Yeah. Holland had its, all the Netherlands had their, the nether regions as Storm French has, has their, their own energy source for many years, just why they were able to, you know, pull an empire. Well, keep a welfare state going. The Scandwegians will do clever things. But we have, yeah, we're being still part of the British Empire. I think it's just us and August Bank holiday Island now, isn't it? Maybe he's just tapping into the late motif at the time. He's very good at knowing how people are feeling. That's why his productions, all his TV shows. He's got a new one coming up. Yeah, yeah. With that bloke with the ears. He can't stop sketching, clean to that up. I mean, there's always been U-Kip and things in Britain. There has always been. We always had Mosley and we always had, you know, the Mitford sisters. Yeah, exactly. So there has always been that sort of under current of sort of British fascism. And so here that's the doctor's enemy. You know, we've talked about years ago about how Bob Holmes makes bureaucrats and humourless, rule bound, hide bound people are the doctor's enemy, but Russell has made the doctor's enemy, that kind of, you know, strain of British imperialism. It's a lovely nod back to Mac Hulk and Bob Holmes, isn't it? Which we've kind of lost over the years. Well, I think Russell's Doctor Who is, you know, explicitly political in a way that Moffat's is not so much and in a way that Chibnol in his 1st year, he seems to have really very, definitely trying to avoid. But it is very strange. And I do love the contrast between Tracy Ann's incredibly genial manner and her response to the doctor's question, so am I your prisoner then? And she just says, well, yes, you are. So it's a great sort of Doctor Who villain in the sense that it's not a slavering moustache twirling villain. She's a super genial management type. Look, if this had been set back in the 1970s, she would have been a he and she would have been like Mr. Chin or something like that you know, um... Although unless we've got Susan Gemma sitting in her leather knickers out, you know, the BBC board, you know, Barry Letts have been allowed to do that. But this also predicates season 11. I believe that's what we've just been through, haven't we? I shouldn't say that. Series 11, we've just enjoyed. Chibnall's response, you might want to say, is Graham Williams response. I'll just say quickly, is that we respond by small acts of kindness, with the overweening and overbearing threat that it cannot be controlled, which is, you want, if you want to call it free wheeling, late stage capitalism or neoliberals, gone mad or whatever it is you want to call it. But it actually is nicely indicated in this story, is that, you know, as living in this stage of capitalism that you have to buy the new things, and if you don't keep up, you're left behind, and you're less of a citizen. Because we're not citizens anymore, are we? We're customers. And boarding any state rail. You'll know that straight off. It's really amazing how foreshadowing this is. 13 stop. Stop it. How many years later? I don't know how many years. This is like sitting, watching Sarah Jane leave to the point where an unearthly child started for us watching this now. Oh, Lordy, as to when it was on our television sets in 2006. That's horrendous dot. The 1st and 8th of July 2006. So nearly 13 years ago. Gosh. But to have these things discussed in an episode 13 years ago which is so relevant now, is amazing. It harks back to things like the Green Death in the Pertury era where those things weren't really to the forefront at that time. Well, they were strongly discussed at the time. We just all got over it quickly when Neoliberalism took on. Yeah. Dave Tennant in this episode wears some 3D glasses throughout. And when I 1st watched this, I could have just gone up to him and ripped those things off his face and just thrown them in the bin and go, what are you doing? It is super slappable, isn't it? No, that what little children can be a part of the show because everyone's got a pair. But this time through. I actually was quite amused by the whole thing and he keeps coming back to it and keeps having them. I actually quite liked it. It's the same reason why Moffatt puts Capoldi and the Ray-Bans. you can make something normal or every day or gettable by the audience. And it's actually a consumer. He's the point of difference. Thank you. He's the point of difference in the plot. Everyone else has got high tech. The doctor gets something out of a comic book and still manages to defeat the threat. It also kind of works with his sort of slightly 50-ish hipster kind of look. You know, those 3D glasses, the green and red ones. Big deal in the 50s. Yeah, for 3D movies. And so it fits his look. I think really well. I think Tennant has, I'm going to do a my favourite tenant moment and my least favourite tenant moment of the episode. My favourite tenant moment is where he makes Yvonne call off the ghost shift by just sitting in a chair staring at her and kind of half smiling and just his confidence. Like, that is a great doctor moment. Wonderful, wonderful. Had they written down, yes. Yeah, least favourite moment. It's who you're going to call Ghostbusters. I just think that is bum clenchingly embarrassing. It's really... I'm just sort of, yes, okay. It's very self-conscious, yes. It's so bad. It's really bad. But again, little fans would love that. But I mean, is Ghostbusters a living reference in 20 years? No, it's 1980, what? I guess the thing is here, when I was looking at David's performance in this. I knew that this had been recorded earlier in the season. So I was quite interested to see whether or not there's still traits of him finding his way in the role and not being perhaps the stereotype that we think that he is. And I think there are moments in this episode where he actually is more subtle than what comes ahead and there's times where I think oh, it's not quite the David Tennant that I remember. And it's interesting coming at this point when you view it in the season having been through the last few episodes. Again, for the most part, his performance in this is surprisingly enjoyable. I know that we've talked a bit about how annoying we think he is. But then when you come back to actually watch him, I actually find him quite hypnotic. It's a bit like perch we in that, you know, a lot of fans of a certain age will be quite critical. But then you actually go back and watch him, you actually sit there enjoying the performance. And I really enjoyed this episode. I mean, I don't know where we're at with it, but I came out of this liking it more than I had previously liked it. And that's been the case for most of this season is that virtually every episode that I've watched, I've either liked the same or more. And I'm at 9 out of 10 for this episode, which I'm... Which is reeling. I'm sure that you're running a shop because you're saying like, so the plot is so thin on the ground, but I just... It doesn't matter because you've got direction and performance. And I just enjoyed just watching it. really enjoyed the lines, the performances. Isn't it a lovely to talk about presaging. It's a lovely thing to say, you don't need to over egg the plot Stephen. You can just do a very simple, elegant story and let the director and then as Graham Harper says, in his interviews. Then I just stop, leave the cameras static and let the artists do what they've been working on for 3 weeks. And that's when we all start tearing up. And it's that gorgeous juxtaposition of really beautifully edited crisp direction. And I am going to, I was going to mention some of the, some of the Socarol Reed and David Lean thumbs, because there's a lot of British army stuff in this. Then I thought, of course, it's Graham Harper. He grew up with those films. He knows how to array soldiers for the camera. It's just like all the life and death of Colonel Blimp is a great film that does use almost the same camera angles for their soldiers. So, yeah, you've got all of that lovely stuff there. And then you've got these little moments where, no, I'll just stop now. Billy's doing her thing now. David's doing his thing now. I just love the way in which when the ghosts finally do come through. They suddenly take that formation as soldiers. Yeah. And it's just lovely little touches. And then as we head into the cliffhanger or the intercutting between what's happening with the doctor, what's happening with Rose down in the sphere room and the tension is building and, you know, you're getting that parallel story between them, like the severe is not ours. They came through 1st and that sort of stuff as they're discovering that down there. I just love that device where you intercut between people having conversations and finding that out at the same time. And the 2 plots kind of reach their climax at exactly the same moment. In fact, it's 3 plots because we get all those shots of the ghosts turning into cybermen, you know, at the power estate and uh, in Paris, I think, and uh, outside the Taj Mahal and sort of news reports. We get the guy from the pirate planet warning us to stay in our home. Louise Jameson's husband. Yes. Yes. But at the time, it may have been an ex at that time. He's such a great actor in that, isn't he? Well, he gets killed. But like that stuff is tremendous. And I think the best thing about it, we're being told to stay in our homes and the cybermen are in our homes. So, you know, they escape up the stairs from the Cyberman only to find there's a Cyberman there. And one of the things that I miss a lot, these massive scale scenes. So you get a family, you know, who have nothing to do with the plot, but are just there to illustrate... Yeah, it's the inversion of the camera. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. They're us watching it. They're Eric and Esa for sort of 2006. So we see the scale of what the cybermen have done. And we haven't really had that before. The only classic series, things that I can think of are The Invasion, where, you know, everyone's out and Cybern are marching through the streets and clearly this owes a lot to that. And invasion of the dinosaurs, I guess, when we evacuate London. But we don't really see that. Whereas here we see, you know, it's another big public invasion like the Slovene last year. And I just adore it. It's something new that Russell's brought to the program and I'm absolutely on board with it. Yeah, no, it's great. I mean, I love the fact that they actually state we are the cyberman. I mean, the fanboy in me. They have to say it because I didn't really say that. I don't think in the previous 2 episodes. Then you've got Mickey Smith, defender, defending the earth, the earth, like sort of the spinoff that never happened for Rose. And, you know, the sphere is not our own and then you've got that music rising. As the Daleks come out of that. I think the Dalek music kicks in just before the Daleks appear. So, um, if you know your music cues, uh, you'll know what it is and presumably some of the audience would have got a sort of unidentifiable Dalek related sensation at that moment without really realising why Dalek tingle. Tag. But I like the Wayne Witch, like you've got the cyberman threat and the threat of the world's collapsing, but then you up the ante with the Daleks. You know, had it been the cyber controller coming out in his chair the same sort of impact at all. It's like he references the cyber king in this, doesn't he? Yeah, there is a little nice. Yeah, nice that these time things through as well. Oh, what about the cyber thing from Tobias Vaughan's office? Or the one from Wheeling Space. The decorative wall feature. in the cupboard. From Fear Hurst slash the invasion. Yes. See, I've never found the cybermen. That threatening compared to the Daleks. The only time I've ever been more sort of afraid of them was in Revenge of the Sidemen. I agree. When you've got the cyber mats that were poisoning everybody, and that sort of freaked me out. So to have something here that is even more of a threat, going into the cliffhanger is just tremendous. And you'd sort of, your senses are overloaded between all of these things and also knowing that Rose could potentially die. And then you've got the 2nd cliffhanger, which is the next time on Doctor Who, straight following it, where, again, he's already misdirecting us with, oh, this is a story of how I died, but then in the way that next time it's cut together, you actually believe that the Cyberman and the Daleks are going to be working together it's very very clever. Well, dear listener, those darlets aren't going to run away from themselves, so it's time for us to leg it. We'll be back next week, ready to moisten up for doomsday. In the meantime, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts and you can keep up with us at flightthroughentirety.com. Flight through entirety on Facebook and at FT podcast on Twitter. You can also find our Series 11 Flashcast, Jody Interterra, at Jody Interterra.com, and at Jody Interterra on Twitter, and our James Bond commentary podcast, Bondfinger at bondfinger.com, at bondfinger on Facebook, and at bondfingercast on Twitter. Until next time, please make sure you always insert your AirPods firmly, but gently, on no account should they be shoved roughly into your brain. Thank you very much for listening and good night. See you soon. Thank you. That was Flight Through Entirety, starting Todd B, it'll be Nathan Bodley, James Selwood and Richard Stone, theme arrangement by Cameron Lamb, Strings Performance by Jane Allberg. This episode, Grandad Prentice Hancock, was recorded on the 28th of April 2019 and released on the 2nd of June. Of course, the Australian version of Torch, what is called Torch Walker, and is mostly concerned with spiders, land, and white people. If interested, contact our new assistant minister for Multicultural Affairs, Parliament House, Canberra. If I say the words you know one more time, kill me today, because I keep doing it. I edit a lot of them out. I'm much worse than you. The floor is littered with me saying, you know, over and over again. The last episode I was in. That all I kept saying. I kept hearing it and going, oh, Nathan, you just must want to just destroy me. No, no, that actually is a nice tag with you. You're going to die for the 1st bit. Nathan probably recognises the waveform. Okay, before you know now. But when the doctor actually like...